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Alabama Shootings; Interview With Kathy Griffin

Aired February 16, 2010 - 21:00:00   ET


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Charlie Sheen`s wife heads to rehab for drug and alcohol addiction. That`s funny. What is it about having your own husband pull a knife on you that would make you want to drink?

Then the octo-mom goes on a date. Jon Gosselin`s ex-goes of about his short comings and a Jersey Shore cast member goes on a homophobic rant. It`s a dysfunctional celebrity bouillabaisse and Kathy Griffin helps me stir the pot.

And she stood up in a meeting and methodically began shooting her colleagues in the head. What happened in Alabama last Friday? And what drove a Harvard-educated neurobiologist down this bloody path?

That and more starting right now.

There are new details in the tragic shooting at the University of Alabama. The suspected killer Amy Bishop-Anderson is on suicide watch after allegedly killing three colleagues on Friday.

Joining me now is a friend of the Harvard educated neurobiologist, Rob Dinsmoor. Rob, you`ve known Amy for about 12 years. How did you meet her?

ROB DINSMOOR, FRIEND OF AMY BISHOP-ANDERSON: Well, we were in a fiction writers` group together starting in the late `90s that met out of Hamilton Library.

BEHAR: I see. A writing group. Did you think she was capable of the things she is being accused of?

DINSMOOR: No. I mean, I could imagine her punching somebody out at a meeting or something like that but I couldn`t imagine the level of violence. I mean, she is an impulsive person but I couldn`t imagine her being able to do that to people.

BEHAR: What do you mean she would have hit somebody but not shoot somebody? Is that what you think?

DINSMOOR: Yes. Kind of. I mean, she was impulsive and when she thought she was right she wouldn`t back down. So she was pretty much of a straight-shooter and probably not terribly diplomatic.

BEHAR: Ok. No pun intended there I take it. A straight shooter. Yes.

Do you think, so she snapped. She must have snapped. Is that what you think?

DINSMOOR: That`s what I`m thinking. You know the fact that the gun there was gives me pause but it could have been she was just carrying it around for protection and all it took was a couple minutes to just completely lose it.


BEHAR: When you knew her, did you know that she had this history of having shot and killed her brother?

DINSMOOR: No, I didn`t even know she had a brother. With all the talks we`ve had late at night I was very surprised that it had never come up. That was a real shocker.

BEHAR: Yes. And then there was some suspicion allegedly that she had sent a pipe bomb to a colleague at Harvard University or a professor at Harvard University.

DINSMOOR: That was certainly news to me. That was news to me completely.

BEHAR: Now, the other thing that she did was she went to a shooting range the other day and was practicing shooting. That`s kind of odd, too, isn`t it that that preceded this shooting that took place amongst her colleagues the other day?

DINSMOOR: Yes. Well, you know, I try to put the best spin on it because she`s my friend but I would like to think it was just that she was again carrying it for protection and trying to learn how to use it. I admit it doesn`t look good for her.

BEHAR: Last week I read somewhere that you talked to her about tenure because it seems like that might be a possible motive for her going berserk.

DINSMOOR: Yes. I know she was very, very frustrated about the tenure situation and the fact that for instance a lot of the research that got funded was very derivative, unoriginal. And she also talked a little bit about the glass ceiling, so I think when she left Harvard to get, because she thought she had a good crack at tenure at Alabama. And I think when she didn`t get that I think that could very well have just been the final straw.

BEHAR: She also mentioned financial difficulties she was having. Do you know anything about that?

DINSMOOR: Yes. I mean, I think most of the time I knew her she was - - they were struggling financially and then when they got to Alabama I think Jim lost his job. So, yes, I think it was always a big issue and she was counting on tenure to help her earn a decent income.

I was surprised when I spoke with her a couple weeks ago that this -- she had this startup company that looked very promising and she was very excited about it so that`s why I was doubly surprised to find out that, you know, this happened.

BEHAR: You know, I`m curious. When you were in the writing group with her, what was her writing about? Was it violent writing? Did you get a clue there maybe?

DINSMOOR: There was -- some of it was violent material. There was -- she wrote a story about growing up in Belfast during the troubles, you know, the civil unrest in Northern Ireland. That was sort of gritty and street violence. And then she wrote another book, it was about a scientist who had a secret life as an I.R.A. operative and that had gun violence. And it was sort of typical thriller stuff. That`s the level of violence I`d see.

BEHAR: I see. Well, there are so many little clues that we now see after all is said and done -- the pipe bomb possibility and the brother and which brings me to the brother. Now that you know the story, and having known her, do you think there`s a possibility that she might have killed her brother intentionally?

DINSMOOR: I tend to doubt it. I think it was an accident but I think they were very careful to try to cover, I don`t know, just to make sure that the case kind of got thrown out. I can`t imagine why she would kill her brother.

BEHAR: Well, my information is after she shot and killed him she went out into the street with her gun and asked somebody to get her a getaway car because she said allegedly she was having a fight with her husband which obviously was a lie. So she might have killed him intentionally for all we know. But that`s all that has to be all sorted out now.

Thanks very much for joining me. Ok. Thank you.

DINSMOOR: Sure. My pleasure.

BEHAR: Back in 60 seconds or more on these Alabama shootings. Stay there.


BEHAR: We`re discussing the tragic shooting at University of Alabama. Suspect Amy Bishop Anderson is behind bars and charged with capital murder for Friday`s killing spree.

Joining me now with more details is Michelle Sigona, investigative reporter and Casey Jordan, criminologist.

Ok, ladies. The woman is on a suicide watch right now. Let`s watch what she said after the cops arrested her and then we`ll talk.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, do you have anything to say? Do you know about what happened?

AMY BISHOP ANDERSON, CHARGED WITH MURDER: It didn`t happen. There`s no way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the people who died?

ANDERSON: There`s no way. They`re still alive.


BEHAR: Michelle, what do you make of those comments? Is she in denial or is she covering up? What?

MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: That`s what it appears to be, it appears at this point based on those statements that she is in denial and of course she is innocent until proven guilty. And she has only been charged with these crimes.

But I did speak with one of the sergeants earlier from the Huntsville Police Department and he sort of gave me a play by play of what happened. Once 911 was called right before 4:00 p.m., last Friday afternoon, and investigators got to the scene, they didn`t know where she was hiding in the building and they found her outside. That`s when they were able to detain her, put her in handcuffs and stick her in the car.

From that point they had to go on an all out search to find the nine millimeter gun that was used inside on that shooting. They did end up finding that weapon on the second floor inside the bathroom in a trash can.

So they have the weapon. They`ve got the woman. They`ve got the charges. Now it`s just moving forward with this investigation.

BEHAR: Ok. Do you think it`s suspicious that she was out on the shooting range like a week or so before? I`m not sure exactly when.

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Absolutely because the husband`s first talking with the press he`s like she doesn`t own a gun. We don`t have a gun. Now he`s back pedaling and is like oh, yes actually we just went to the range. She borrowed it. I didn`t know where she got it from.

Hello. This is her husband. You would think a woman who never fired a gun before, why did they go to the range? He didn`t think this was unusual? She was cagey about where she got the gun and he didn`t press her about this?

BEHAR: It makes it look like it`s premeditated.

JORDAN: Absolutely.

BEHAR: The suspect`s husband spoke to "Good Morning America". Listen.


JIM ANDERSON, SUSPECT`S HUSBAND: Nobody understands what happened. Nobody knows. I mean, I can`t sit down and talk to her and ask her what happened. What went wrong? What broke?


BEHAR: Ok. I mean, at the very least, ladies, the husband seems like a person of interest in this, you know? I mean, maybe a cohort. What do you think?

JORDAN: Well, only that he`s been married to her for 20 odd years and is so used to her idiosyncrasies and the things that are coming to light, the various faces of Amy Bishop to him are completely normal for his wife because he`s been inculcated -- he`s been around her for 25 years.

He was with her as her boyfriend when the incident happened where she shot her brother. He has known her for a very long time.

BEHAR: Right. I see. But if it`s learned that the husband knew of the shootings, what punishment could he face, do you think, Michelle? What do you think?

SIGONA: Well, it just depends at this point. I mean, here`s what I can tell you, that the investigators in the area, as -- an hour after the shooting, Joy, they did execute a search warrant on the house. They did go inside. They seized evidence that will help in this investigation.

I`m sure that their questioning not only her husband but her friends, faculty members, friends, to build up the timeline up until this point where this alleged shooting did in fact happen and based on those accounts and who in fact knew what and then police will be able to move forward with furthering this investigation.

BEHAR: You`re a criminologist. And let me ask you this question. How unusual is it that it`s woman in this particular case? You know, we know about Columbine and some of the school shootings. It`s always boys.

JORDAN: Oh, yes but keep in mind mass murder is typically a male crime.


JORDAN: Very different than serial killing and we do have female mass murderers but invariably, almost exclusively their family annihilators, they kill their own children and so you hear about the Andrea Yates or even the Manson women who were in a cult.

But an actual explosive outrage with a gun, extremely rare. We had one four years ago with a female postal worker, stereotypical as that is and that`s the only one in recent memory. We`ve had women plowed on people with cars or set fires but with an actual gun shooting up, work place violence, that is all this is --


JORDAN: -- it`s not a school shooting; it`s a disgruntled employee --


JORDAN: -- extremely rare. Only the second one in the last decade.

BEHAR: That`s very interesting and a woman professor confronted her too.

JORDAN: Absolutely, a very strong woman -- crawled under the table and grabbed her by the legs, got her out into the hallway and shut the door and actually said something interesting. "I`ve helped you before I can help you now." And that`s the sort of thing that saved the lives of the rest of the faculty members --

BEHAR: Right.

JORDAN: -- at the conference table.

BEHAR: Right, this is an interesting case.

JORDAN: Fascinating.

BEHAR: Ok ladies thank you very much.

Next the fabulous Kathy Griffin joins me next. So stick around.



KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIENNE: The guys put his -- and we`re not leaving until we get results.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I would take it you were their leader?

GRIFFIN: Oh, nothing gets by you, curly.

Deb Duffy (ph) President, Founder, and spokeswoman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Oh, the gay rights group.

GRIFFIN: What gay rights? The Lesbian Rights? Something you clowns obviously know nothing about.


BEHAR: I said no lighting on that show.

GRIFFIN: It`s very serious on that show.

BEHAR: Well, that was a sneak peek of Kathy Griffin in a rare dramatic role, in an upcoming "Law and Order" special.

GRIFFIN: Soon to be an Emmy nominated.

BEHAR: Soon to be Emmy nominated. So she`s not only outspoken but she`s versatile. However you think I mean that, I do.

She also stars on Bravo`s "My Life on the D List" and whatever else she can get her way on to, like this show. Dear Kathy.

GRIFFIN: It`s true I am and I`m at the Garden three nights and I have a book signing tomorrow at the Barnes & Noble on 5th but I`ve also finagled you into being on "The D List" after this.

BEHAR: I know, I heard about that.

GRIFFIN: So you`re not done with you`re day.

BEHAR: No I`m not.

GRIFFIN: You`re going to have to go shoot with me.

BEHAR: Ok, that`s fine.

GRIFFIN: It`ll be fun. It will be 20 minutes.

BEHAR: Yes, so what are you playing on "Law & Order"? A lesbian?

GRIFFIN: I play a lesbian activist and they said that she`s like the lesbian Al Sharpton which is a good role.

BEHAR: Oh, yes.

GRIFFIN: Think about it.

BEHAR: So a kind of like a --

GRIFFIN: Al Sharpton as a white lesbian.

BEHAR: -- a trouble maker -- a trouble making white lesbian --

GRIFFIN: It was a stretch.

BEHAR: But you had a moment with Mariska Hargitay.

GRIFFIN: I have a real moment.

BEHAR: Let`s -- look, I want to see it.



GRIFFIN: Is it me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. It`s me. I`m -- I`m, Babs, I`m flattered. I`m just also straight.

GRIFFIN: Oh, come on. I mean, the job and the gun and the attitude? You`re like Ellen, Joan Crawford and Calamity Jane all rolled into one. You can bounce a checkbook I`ll throw in Suze Orman.


BEHAR: But where is the kiss? I heard there was a kiss.

GRIFFIN: There is a kiss and what I`m most excited about is I think this could garner me a small but mighty heterosexual male audience.

BEHAR: You think so?

GRIFFIN: But you know the straights have no time for me. They don`t care. It`s the gays and ladies.

BEHAR: But you sell out a lot of show they`re all gay?

GRIFFIN: Gays and ladies and then husbands and boyfriends that are dragged there. But I think now that I have kissed the hot Mariska Hargitay --

BEHAR: She is hot.

GRIFFIN: -- it could rope in a few of the straights that don`t really know any better.

BEHAR: Well, if you bring Mariska Hargitay onstage with you maybe.

GRIFFIN: Then and we start making out that sells tickets.

BEHAR: And how did she react when she heard she had to do a kiss with you?

GRIFFIN: She was thrilled.

BEHAR: Was she?

GRIFFIN: I`m sure after 11 seasons her first lesbian kiss is with me, it was a thrill for her instead of you know, like a Victoria Secret model. But you know, I`ve schooled her. I taught her a few things about a thing or two.

BEHAR: You did, like what? What did you teach her?

GRIFFIN: What was funny is because I was -- I`ve never been so nervous on a job in my life and so -- and you know, I haven`t done like a real acting job in forever and so I had diarrhea for two weeks solid.

BEHAR: You were scared.

GRIFFIN: It was -- but it was great. I lost five pounds. I could eat whatever I wanted. And I was scared. Yes.


GRIFFIN: Because I had to know lines and hit marks and like really act and then when it came time for the kiss moment --


GRIFFIN: -- which actually I`m not sure if I was supposed to reveal until now but there might be a kiss.

BEHAR: There`s a kiss.

GRIFFIN: Then I wasn`t really sort of thinking about that because I was so busy being in character and having diarrhea.

BEHAR: I see. It`s about memorizing lines and saying them in the exact spot.

GRIFFIN: Being a whole different person.

BEHAR: It`s a little scary.

GRIFFIN: Very much a stretch.

BEHAR: Well, the other person is kind -- that`s fun, isn`t it?

GRIFFIN: That`s fun. Have you had any lesbian kisses with anyone here at HLN?

BEHAR: No not here yet but on "The View" constantly.

GRIFFIN: Constantly. It passes the time.

BEHAR: Meredith was my first. And she`s adorable.

GRIFFIN: She thought she`s a cherry?

BEHAR: And then Whoopi and I lost my virginity though with Meredith.



So now I notice that a lot of dramatic actors, I mean comedians are becoming dramatic actors. Belzer is on that show --

GRIFFIN: Belzer is great on that show.

BEHAR: He`s in there forever.

GRIFFIN: But you know why? Because that show really knows how to write for comedians. So actually as research -- well as research, well I watched like 50 episodes. But among them, Jerry Lewis was really great --


GRIFFIN: -- doing a dramatic turn and Carol Burnett was fantastic and Marty Short. And so they came to see me live, they came to see my act and they really kind of helped write the part for me. It was really an honor.

BEHAR: But how did you get the part then?

GRIFFIN: They ok, so here I was hosting the Schmemmies (ph) --


GRIFFIN: -- which I lovingly call -- they are the creative arts Emmys but they`re like the fake Emmys and there are a week before, the real Emmys so of course I was the perfect host -

BEHAR: Right.

GRIFFIN: -- being on the D List.

And I think they took pity on me. But Neil Baier (ph) who`s the big gun at that show said --

BEHAR: Right.

GRIFFIN: -- I`m going to write a part for you and next year you`re going to get nominated for an Emmy.


GRIFFIN: I know and then they did write it. So I thought they were kidding and in fact they wrote it and I did it in a warehouse in Jersey.

BEHAR: Oh that`s great.

GRIFFIN: I know.

BEHAR: That`s great. Now, you mention to me a clip, in the clip you mentioned "American Idol?"

GRIFFIN: Well, I love "American Idol."

BEHAR: The one with the clip --

GRIFFIN: But I`m going to be honest I miss Paula.

BEHAR: Oh you mentioned "American Idol" you mentioned Ellen in the clip.

GRIFFIN: Oh, yes. Because of gay icons of course.

BEHAR: Right, exactly. So now that she`s there what do you think of it?

GRIFFIN: I miss Paula trying to hold her head up for an hour. I -- it`s like nobody is really bobbing and weaving --


GRIFFIN: -- and that`s what I miss. I feel like they`re all too steady, like physically steady. I don`t mean emotionally. I don`t know them but I like when people physically move around a lot --


GRIFFIN: -- and clap like steels or pass out.

BEHAR: See who`s getting up -- yes. Yes.

GRIFFIN: -- she would dance and you know, I would go to that show live and she would be dancing during the commercial breaks.


GRIFFIN: So just so you know, she lives it. She`s not playing around.

BEHAR: Yes, we`re going to miss her. What about Howard Stern taking of her?

GRIFFIN: I would love it.

BEHAR: I love it.

GRIFFIN: Yes, I love him. And I think he`s outrageous. I don`t know if he really wants to do it. I mean, I don`t think -- he hates L.A. I think. So he did --

BEHAR: Oh you`d have to go LA, you won`t go there?

GRIFFIN: Well, he said you have to give me a hundred million dollars. But who knows? Maybe they will.

BEHAR: They`re not going to give it to him I don`t think.

GRIFFIN: But I would love to watch what he would say --


GRIFFIN: -- I would hate to see him censored that`s the problem.

BEHAR: Don`t you think he is to mean? There is a sort of level of meanness which I think you would be good with because you`re sort of funny mean.

GRIFFIN: I`m mean like.

BEHAR: You`re mean like.

GRIFFIN: I like mean. You can`t be mean enough for me. I enjoy mean.

BEHAR: You`re not really that mean.

GRIFFIN: You`re ruining my career right now. Literally, my ticket sales are plummeting based on this conversation.

BEHAR: You`re not that mean and you`re not on the D List anymore.

GRIFFIN: Oh, stop it, you.

BEHAR: So you need another concept.

GRIFFIN: Law and order new detective, sexy lesbian detective.

BEHAR: I love that.

GRIFFIN: Bottomless. I wear just a shirt.

BEHAR: Would you do "American Idol" if they asked you? It`s a lot of money.

GRIFFIN: I don`t know about that. I don`t think I`m appropriate for a show like that. It`s a family show.

BEHAR: Why not? But Howard Stern is?

GRIFFIN: No. He`s not actually. But I would like to see him on it. I would like to see you on it.

BEHAR: Really.

Get comfortable because we have a lot more to talk about. We`ll be back in a minute.



GRIFFIN: You won`t believe this but I just got a call from Cher. She wants your phone number and wants to call you. I know, I`m nervous. Like what did I do? What did I say? Whenever a celebrity wants to contact me it never goes my way. It`s not, you know, what am I, fired from life? What am I fired from?


BEHAR: I`m back --

GRIFFIN: That was me doing Rosie when Rosie called me to say I get to meet Cher.

BEHAR: Is that who that was?


BEHAR: This is the fabulous Kathy Griffin and that was a clip from her recent DVD. She`ll cut a bitch. Also the --

GRIFFIN: I like how you think I can be on "American Idol" and my last special was called, "She`ll cut a bitch."

BEHAR: I know. Well, Julie Andrews has the same CD title.

So let`s talk about your stand-up for a minute.

GRIFFIN: I`m doing three nights at the garden Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Thursday is sold out. Friday and Saturday but what I was saying that you and I have in common, you know live you can get away with anything.



GRIFFIN: That`s where the fur really flies.

BEHAR: But you have to give them something extra. They`re paying for a ticket.


BEHAR: On television we have to control our mouths though you rarely do --

GRIFFIN: Correct.

BEHAR: -- when you`re sitting with Anderson I notice.

GRIFFIN: Correct.

BEHAR: What are you going to do?

GRIFFIN: I`m going to be worse than I`ve ever been. I`m going to offend a lot of groups although I don`t think I can be more offensive than John Mayer which is so out of left field to me, that a white, blues guitar player is more offensive than I am. It`s a challenge to me frankly.

BEHAR: But he was just -- to me John Mayer was just --

GRIFFIN: He was just trying to be ironic.

BEHAR: Yes. And using the N word.

GRIFFIN: He should stick to the guitar.

BEHAR: Stick to the guitar. So stupid.


BEHAR: How do you work shop material? I`m curious about that.

GRIFFIN: Well, you know I really change it up a lot because sometimes I get what I call gifts from Baby Jesus.

An example of that would be anxiety rehab. I`m very interested in anxiety rehab. I would like to go. I support it. I support rehab of any kind especially fake rehab. Which is what I could consider anxiety rehab to be.

Somebody goes hoo-hoo with the ha-ha and the hee-hee. I don`t know but this is a brand new thing -- anxiety rehab.

BEHAR: What does this have to do with working on material?

GRIFFIN: Because I`m saying, this is something that people come see me live will know like the Chynna Phillips story and they`ll know about the race -- what is it -- the homophobic slurs from the Jersey Shore guy. That was such a shock.

BEHAR: We`ll get to that in the next segment.

GRIFFIN: Caught me off guard.


GRIFFIN: I don`t mean to give away the store or create a situation.


GRIFFIN: But yes. So, you know, I`m kind of always keeping up on this stuff. I am like the Rand Corporation but I have to watch the Bad Girls Club and Oprah and Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew and the Kardashians every day.

BEHAR: You`re going to have to really --

GRIFFIN: My serious work.

BEHAR: So you encompass every subject.

GRIFFIN: I`m like a theologian without the bible.

BEHAR: Your stuff is anecdotal. And I think that --

GRIFFIN: It is. It`s more story -- I don`t really have like one liners -- I couldn`t really write a one-liner.

But it`s stories and it`s my celebrity run-ins and who knows what happened, being in New York this week, this fashion week and all the fashionistas were freaking out because it was raining and ruining their looks.

BEHAR: Why do you think the gays love you so much? Is it because it`s celebrity driven?

GRIFFIN: I think it`s celebrity-driven and you know, I think it`s maybe part of feeling disenfranchised and I just always hung out with gay guys.


GRIFFIN: I was just that girl in school that went to the dance with the dude that was clearly, clearly gay. And I`m still friends with my friend from high school and his husband.

BEHAR: Ok. And you have a book signing?


BEHAR: Plug that now and then we`ll talk about something else.

GRIFFIN: Great. I wrote a book, "Official Book Club Selection" and it went to number one on the New York Times list and I`m doing a signing tomorrow at Barnes & Noble on 5th.


GRIFFIN: What`s great about these signings is they`re really different than doing the live show because I don`t know why, but the book is a completely different world so I already have one girl twitter me on my Twitter though I don`t call it that. I have a different name for it.

BEHAR: Yes. What is it? Tell me when we come back.

I want to get your take on a certain Jersey Shore cast member`s homophobic rant next.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In flip-flops. What is she (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) grow some hair you (EXPLICATIVE DELETED).


BEHAR: That was the brilliant "Jersey Shore`s" Ronnie Magro caught in a homophobic rant while strolling the Jersey boardwalk. That clip was --

GRIFFIN: That wasn`t in Oxford?



BEHAR: That clip was leaked to TMZ but cut from the show.


BEHAR: I don`t know I`ve seen that show. They don`t hate gays. They hate prepositions. Okay, I`m back with Kathy Griffin.

GRIFFIN: Yes they hate grammar many times. Yes, I watch every episode yes. You got me.


GRIFFIN: Take me away in cuffs. "Jersey Shore."

BEHAR: You like it.

GRIFFIN: I can`t help it. It makes me feel superior. And I met Snooki or Snookster or -

BEHAR: Snooki -

GRIFFIN: Whatever.


GRIFFIN: And I complimented her on her bump-it. And she got a little --

BEHAR: What`s a bump-it?

GRIFFIN: It is a piece of plastic. And I have a few of those on my face but this is actually for your hair and then you comb your hair over it to make it look higher.

BEHAR: Oh yes, yes, yes.

GRIFFIN: But she was offended and said it`s not a bump-it. It`s a snooki.

BEHAR: Brilliant. The woman is brilliant. Yes.


GRIFFIN: I know I know.

BEHAR: She`s like Golda Meir to me.

GRIFFIN: I know and it is a shock there`s a homophobic slur with these people? Come on it`s not that much of a shock.

BEHAR: Well it is kind of - you`d think they`d know better at this point, these jerks.

GRIFFIN: I know but -

BEHAR: They are coming on the view I have to sit there with them.

GRIFFIN: But they go to jail. That`s so funny, you know, on my little show I don`t to go jail. Although I would like to be arrested but my attorney say --


GRIFFIN: Because of publicity.

BEHAR: Material, material.

GRIFFIN: But then I didn`t know that there was actually a trial. So that kind of put me of it but you should know I dream of a celebrity mug shot.

BEHAR: I hear you. I can see --

GRIFFIN: Like a really nice lighting and hair, like Paris Hilton so nice lighting and hair and makeup and kind of coy looking. Like go ahead. Arrest me, officer.

BEHAR: Uh huh, yes. I can see why you want that.

GRIFFIN: I`ll take you to court. It`s kind of flirty.

BEHAR: You put that behind you onstage. You`d be fabulous.

GRIFFIN: Okay, I just don`t want the real trial part. I don`t have time. I`m busy.

BEHAR: No, you might go to jail.


BEHAR: This "Jersey Shore" a lot of people say it`s against Italian Americans. You`re not an Italian American. So what do you think of it?

GRIFFIN: No, I think it`s fascinating. I don`t care what group they`re in. I don`t think oh this is what all Italian Americans are like.

BEHAR: Well you don`t think that but some people do.

GRIFFIN: I think they`re funny. Well okay but there is always going to be that one person who is obsessing about this group.

But I like to make fun of groups maybe more than individual people because groups seem to have less psychology. They seem to have less of a sense of humor even than individuals.

BEHAR: Groups do.

GRIFFIN: I enjoy making fun of religious groups in particular. They`re the most fun.

BEHAR: How much trouble do you get in for that?

GRIFFIN: Oh as much as I can, as much as I possibly can. Because they kick it.

BEHAR: Yes, I find that religious - sometimes religious people can be the most angry.


BEHAR: And nasty.

GRIFFIN: And sell the most tickets.

BEHAR: And very self-righteous a lot of times.

GRIFFIN: Very self righteous and hypocritical. Yes.

BEHAR: Yes I know it`s not fun to talk to them. All right.

Let`s talk about baby factories the octomom Nadya -


BEHAR: Suleman. She was on "The Jimmy Kimmel Show" to play the dating game. Let`s take a look.


JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST: When was the last time you went on a date?

NADYA SULEMAN: A little bit over ten years ago.

KIMMEL: It must very difficult to meet people, right, with like 90 kids or whatever you have.

SULEMAN: 93. Bachelor number two. Are you fertile as a turtle or limp as a chimp?

KIMMEL: Fertile as a turtle.


BEHAR: What do you think of her?

GRIFFIN: Can I have a minute, I need a minute.

BEHAR: Take a minute.

GRIFFIN: It takes a lot by the way to get me here to this place I`m in right now, but I`m there. Wow. Okay. So once again hold on. I used to be an atheist until that clip. Thank you Jesus because that is going to be great for the act. That is fantastic. You know the guys didn`t know that she was the contestant so they came on the show knowing it was some sort of celebrity dating game and each one of them were like hi, crazy. Hi, crazy pants. Hi, crazy vagina. And so her vagina seems nuts. Seems crazy. And yet I love to watch what comes out of it.

BEHAR: Oh she is just another -- more graffiti for your mill.

GRIFFIN: Oh she`s fantastic. Swearing she didn`t have any face work. And you know I`m an expert on what I call the dental work.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

GRIFFIN: Because in Hollywood we call it dental work.

BEHAR: Oh yes, yes, yes.

GRIFFIN: I believe she has -- I am alleging that she has had a little dental work.

BEHAR: When does she have time or money to get plastic surgery when she`s got all these kids?

GRIFFIN: I don`t know. Maybe she`s next to Montag, Pratt, Spencer. Or whatever.

BEHAR: Heidi, Heidi Montag.

GRIFFIN: Heidi, yes.

BEHAR: Oh you must love her too.

GRIFFIN: I`m all over - first of all she should be on Discovery not MTV because she has had the first head transplant. And I`d like some kind of inside the ER, whatever those show should document it.

BEHAR: You know the octomom, we have a clip of the first date from TMZ. Want to see it?


BEHAR: Okay let`s see it.


UNIDENTIFIED: What are you guys doing for Valentine`s?

UNIDENTIFIED: Lots of octopus.


GRIFFIN: Whoa. Whoa. Wow, he went there, too.

BEHAR: But who would want to date a woman who -- a mother who has 14 children.

GRIFFIN: Well they didn`t know. I think these guys want to be on TV. But she will find love. Although she seems like an interesting combo of kind of crazy but not completely stupid. You know she doesn`t have the "Jersey Shore" with the bad grammar. It just seems like straight up crazy which has a it`s home, which has it`s place.

BEHAR: Yes, crazy. Do you think it`s possible for her to be a decent mother to these kids?

GRIFFIN: No, I don`t think it`s possible. I mean I`m not being mean. I don`t think it is possible.

BEHAR: Why not?

GRIFFIN: Because -

BEHAR: That other group, the Duggers have 18 children.

GRIFFIN: Okay they`re not vamps by the way.


BEHAR: They`re very religious people. They`re very religious people.

GRIFFIN: Yes, right, whatever. You can`t possibly, look, I`m on a TV show. All right, it`s all consuming and I barely have time for my two dogs who will probably have their own spin-off but there is no way you can be doing a TV show and have those kids and be a good parent. Not having it. No.

BEHAR: No I mean one child takes care of the next one.

GRIFFIN : But why is it cute if the Duggers do it and then octom is crazy? They are just as crazy.

BEHAR: Well because -

GRIFFIN: I`m giving you the lips.

BEHAR: They get a pass because they have a mother and a father in the house.

GRIFFIN: Okay. So two crazies.

BEHAR: And then they say that you know, Jesus brought the babies so they get away with it because of that.

GRIFFIN: Oh don`t start with that, you know what, maybe she didn`t get it. I`m saying Jesus is a woman in your face, Behar.


GRIFFIN: Yes, we`re going on the edge.

BEHAR: Whoa. Okay. We`re on the edge. Don`t start with the religious. I`m telling you. They`ll turn on me and you.

GRIFFIN: I know but I like the picketing at my shows.

BEHAR: And you. The Heidi Montag when she was on the red carpet this weekend, she dropped this little pearl of wisdom on radar online.


BEHAR: Go look at this.


HEIDI MONTAG, ACTRESS: I would like to get my breasts redone because I didn`t get them the size I wanted because they couldn`t fit so that`s it. It`s who you are on the inside that really matters and this is just a shell at the end of the day.


BEHAR: She is talking about the inner beauty but she`s completely changed the outside of herself.

GRIFFIN: When you can`t even say a contraction properly, the red flag is saying couldn`t? When I couldn`t get - couldn`t.

BEHAR: Couldn`t.

GRIFFIN: You can`t say contractions you moron. All right it must be like you -

BEHAR: Couldn`t wouldn`t.


GRIFFIN: And the old one can`t either. Or conjugated verb. I mean it`s -- I can`t believe she`s admitting they`re not big enough to her and yet the clothing didn`t fit. It`s ridiculous. And even the rapist husband allegedly, he reminds me of a date rapist. I`m not saying he is. But he looks a little date rapist --


GRIFFIN: The husband. Little better --

BEHAR: Spidey? Spencer? He looks like a date rapist?


BEHAR: He seems like some innocuous little thing to me, to me nothing.

GRIFFIN: Little date rapist -- if I was going to go on a date and be afraid to be raped that is who it would be with.

BEHAR: Really.

GRIFFIN: A little date raping.

BEHAR: She got ten surgeries. Now you know something about that.

GRIFFIN: I know about the dental work.

BEHAR: She got the dental work - the dental work, ten surgeries in one day.

GRIFFIN: Right. It`s too much. And by the way, I would tell you and in my book I swear to god I have the most heinous post op plastic surgery photos. You have to get the book just for that.

BEHAR: I do, I want to see that.

GRIFFIN: Because they`re horrible, it is horrible and painful and disgusting.

BEHAR: You tell the truth about it.

GRIFFIN: Yes and these women who say oh it is like getting a hair cut are full of it.

BEHAR: Why, what`s the first part of it?

GRIFFIN: First of all it`s disgusting. Okay, when you get lipo, you love this part.

BEHAR: I do.

GRIFFIN: I know, when you get lipo you have to wear this like girdle with a hole that you pee through. I`m not kidding. It is so barbaric. And they take a big knitting needle and they stick it in you.

BEHAR: Yes. Disgusting.

GRIFFIN: And you ooze and it is disgusting, and debasting, and horrible.

BEHAR: But you did it all and you would do it again wouldn`t you?

GRIFFIN: Yes, I did it all. I haven`t - I don`t know about that.

BEHAR: Really.


BEHAR: Why not just go on a diet, exercise a little?

GRIFFIN: That`s what I did.

BEHAR: Get a little Botox like I do. I always say that. But I`m afraid of knives. I wouldn`t do a knife.

GRIFFIN: I don`t know if I`m going to do it again actually. I`m just afraid to say it on this show because A.J. Hammer is going to put it on the news ticker.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

GRIFFIN: That show scares me with him and Brooke Anderson. The Ticker.

BEHAR: I know that show is wacky. A wacky show.

GRIFFIN: A showbiz shocker. Now Marie Osmond is crying in soft lens.


BEHAR: Now she says that Heidi that she is going to do "Playboy" for the second time.

GRIFFIN: I love when they say it`s an honor and my parents are so proud. My whole life, this is what I love. Ever since I was a little girl my daddy always wanted me to be in "Playboy." uh-oh. Red flag. No it is not an honor.

BEHAR: What did you think of Senator Scott Brown from Massachusetts? Who said my daughter, I have a daughter on this night.

GRIFFIN: Crimping out the daughter. I was so happy to have a show in Rochester that night. I can`t even tell you.


GRIFFIN: I was hours from the stage.

BEHAR: It`s a gift. GRIFFIN: It`s a fantastic gift with a bow on it. It`s great. And then when you made it worse by saying, no, what I meant this one is single. I mean pimping out the daughters? It was great. He is the new face of the Republican Party.

BEHAR: I guess he`s going to be called pimp daddy now.

GRIFFIN: He should. And pimp mama Palin.

BEHAR: Oh do you - oh let me get -- do a couple Facebook questions before we go.


BEHAR: Okay these are good. First of all this one is a little weird. Aren`t you afraid that you`ll die alone and lonely because you have alienated everyone who matters? That was from your mother.

GRIFFIN: Actually - I know. Thanks mom, my mom loves the show by the way. Never misses it.

BEHAR: Your D-List?

GRIFFIN: No, no, your show.

BEHAR: Oh, my show?

GRIFFIN: This is one of the few shows that I would be on that wouldn`t embarrass her. Because most of everything I do embarrasses her. But she --

BEHAR: Why? Your D-List show is really funny.

GRIFFIN: Well she thinks that I go too far on the D-List show.

BEHAR: Uh huh but not on this one?

GRIFFIN: No. She likes this show and then "Judge Judy" and that`s it. She oddly likes "The Kardashians."

BEHAR: "The Kardashians" can be fun, I don`t know.

GRIFFIN: But she`s 89 what do they have for her?

BEHAR: What makes Kathy blush before we go?

GRIFFIN: Well not blush but sometimes the stupidity that you see like from the Spideys -


GRIFFIN: And when they talk about you know her boobs wanting to be even bigger, it doesn`t make me -- a lot of things make me cringe.


GRIFFIN: You know a lot of these shows I watch them and it`s a guilty pleasure but I cringe.

BEHAR: Okay here`s your last one, did you ever have sex with Sarah Silverman?

GRIFFIN: Yes, many times. And sometimes she`d be the top and then I`d be the top and -

BEHAR: Was it more fun than that Mariska Hargitay?

GRIFFIN: That is a horse race. Because we get -


GRIFFIN: Come to the show. Yes, girl on girl action. Woo.

BEHAR: Thank you, Kathy very much for stopping by. Catch Kathy performing at Madison Square Garden February 18, 19, and 20. Up next the list of stars entering rehab gets longer. I`ll tell you the latest additions.


BEHAR: As if they haven`t been in the news enough Charlie Sheen`s wife Brooke Mueller has checked into the Canyon Rehab facility in Malibu to be treated for substance abuse. TMZ has the story. Here with more details is the TMZ assignment manager Mike Walters. Hi, Mike.


BEHAR: So what`s the latest on the story?

WALTERS: Well basically Brooke Mueller has checked herself into a live-in substance abuse facility in Los Angeles and here`s the reality of the situation. Basically, Charlie Sheen has been charged with a crime in Aspen. Remember the whole thing with him and her and the fight? Well, here`s the problem. She is the witness. All of this, all of the charges are based on what he said, she said, and she is the -- her testimony is what brought the charges on. If she`s not a credible witness and if she was on any kind of substance, we know she had alcohol in her blood, but if she had any other substances in her blood system or anything like that, this could, these charges could be dropped against Charlie Sheen her husband in Aspen.

BEHAR: I see. Well, do we know what she`s in there for exactly? There were reports that she`s -- she uses crack cocaine. Is that true?

WALTERS: Look. I have heard the same reports. I cannot confirm what kind of drugs or alcohol she`s using. I do know that the substance abuse was major. It was something that needed immediate attention. And she`s checked herself into a live-in facility. I can tell you that she was drinking and so was Charlie the night in Aspen and there are reports that they were together. Remember they dropped the restraining order down.

BEHAR: Right.

WALTERS: So they were together when they came back to Los Angeles. She wasn`t here that long. Right away, she was back into a rehab facility which she has been in those sort of places in the past.

BEHAR: I see. So she has some kind of a history with alcohol and drug abuse, right?

WALTERS: Yes, yes, you got it. And so does Charlie. Remember, Charlie Sheen had a battle earlier in his career with this kind of stuff and the fact that he was drinking and she was that night and now Brooke is in a live-in facility? I don`t know what`s going to happen here but I can tell you in the criminal system most likely these charges could be dropped against him because she was under the influence.

BEHAR: Well who admitted her into rehab? Somebody had to take her there right?

WALTERS: Well you know, look. I don`t know who actually took her there. I can tell you she checked in so it was something she did on her own. This isn`t a forced rehab. This isn`t a court ordered rehab. This is just her personally saying I need help so I`m going to check myself in somewhere. You know, there`s probably going to be contact with the children, with people around her, but this is one of those where you can walk out at any time. If you check yourself in and get help, which is a good thing, Joy, you know if you have a problem. If you can leave at any time and we`re told she went on her own.

BEHAR: It`s kind of a sad situation, almost like the days of wine and roses, you know, where the two of them in some folly a do together, possibly.

WALTERS: Well you know Joy the problem here too, there`s 10-month-old twins and if Charlie is drinking which we know there was some in his blood stream at the fight and Brooke is some sort of substance abuser who is taking care of the kids? I know in Hollywood there are nannies and that whole thing but you know what somebody has to be responsible and I would not be surprised if somebody, if there was some sort of investigation going on with that.

BEHAR: Thanks, Mike. Thanks very much for the update.

WALTERS: Absolutely.

BEHAR: Now I want to bring in an internist and addiction medicine specialist, Dr. Drew Pinsky, who is also the host of celebrity rehab with Dr. Drew on VH1 and also joining me is David Caplan senior editor of "People" magazine. Okay. Dr. Drew, what is everybody in rehab these days? I mean you can`t turn around. They`re all in rehab. I mean, should this woman stay away from -- let me ask Drew. Should this woman, Brooke, should she stay away from Charlie Sheen?

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "CELEBRITY REHAB WITH DR. DREW" ON VH1: Let me, you asked a couple questions.

BEHAR: Right.

PINSKY: One is, is everybody in rehab? And let me tell you addiction is the problem of our time and it`s just the fact that it`s being reflected in young Hollywood as well. And by the way let me also point out you guys made a big deal about it being a voluntary rehab. There is no such thing in the United States as forced treatment for chemical addiction. There is no such thing. It`s all voluntary. You are within your rights to use drugs until you die in this country unless you say I`m going to kill myself in which case you can be held for 72 hours only against your will.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

PINSKY: Should she stay with him or not? Yes they should stay together. They`re both using, they`re both addicts, there are in relapse. They`re both need treatment. Thank god she is getting treatment. I hope Charlie is attending to his addiction as well because he was drinking. And really it doesn`t matter what substance they were taking. This is the point that everyone seems to miss. An addict, a chronic addict in relapse who is using any addictive substances is going to be crazy. And going to do things they don`t ordinarily do.

BEHAR: Uh huh. Okay. Now she, Brooke is not the only celebrity family whatever to be in rehab. Also Chynna Phillips -


BEHAR: Mackenzie Phillips` sister is also in rehab but for anxiety treatment.

CAPLAN: For anxiety and this is a surprise actually. Her source close to her tells and her rep tells "People" it is not for drugs or it is not for alcohol. It`s for anxiety. And points to the fact that she hasn`t been the same since MacKenzie Phillips came out with the allegations against John Phillips about the incestuous relationship.


CAPLAN: But that she`s never been the same and it has really taken a toll on her.

BEHAR: Who Chynna says this?

CAPLAN: Yes. And her manager says she hasn`t been the same since her sister has --

BEHAR: Well she knew about it.

CAPLAN: Yes she says she knew about in fact for about like dozen years or so.

BEHAR: Right.

CAPLAN: Because when it came out, the whole world found out, remember she actually, Chynna went on Oprah via satellite interview and spoke about it as well. It`s taken such a toll on her.

BEHAR: I would think that repressing -

PINSKY: Joy I`ve got a couple of things.

BEHAR: I would think that -


BEHAR: Yes, I will, I will get to you in a minute.


BEHAR: But I would think that repressing the information should take its toll more than once it`s out there. Right, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Yes. That`s exactly right. Now first we got to clarify a couple things.

BEHAR: Go ahead.

PINSKY: This is what drives me insane. Which is one, there is no such thing as rehab for anxiety.

BEHAR: Exactly.

PINSKY: Rehab, chemical dependency rehab is rehab status level of care. Psychiatric hospitalization for anxiety is a possibility. So Chynna may have been in a psychiatric hospital I guess based on what we`re told. Secondly, her having never been the same is very different than laying the blame at Mackenzie`s feet. I have talked to Mackenzie at length about this, Joy. I know you have. Chynna felt actually good about this but of course it can be very evocative that all of this material is coming up again like you say, Joy. So it`s not so much that this is laid at the foot of Mackenzie but maybe some material that has laid dormant for quite some time is now resurfacing.

BEHAR: Well maybe she had something she had something - I`m not saying that she had a sexual relationship with her father, but maybe, I mean John Phillips is her father too and he was a bad guy. So obviously, she has anxiety.

CAPLAN: Yes definitely, I mean this is what her publicist is telling us and friends to her. It still - even though it involved her half sister, it still took a toll on her. Her name was (inaudible) the press as well.


CAPLAN: She was under scrutiny as well; of course it`s going to be an impact to her.

BEHAR: I know but let`s be clear, it`s not Mackenzie who took the toll, it`s John Phillips who took the toll, right? I mean, that`s the truth. And what kind of treatment is involved in anxiety treatment? I happen to know about that a little because I was in therapy for years, so I know about anxiety treatment. It`s just typical talking cure, isn`t it?

PINSKY: Well that`s if it`s generalized anxiety disorder. But what would create a circumstance of somebody who would need to be in an acute hospital setting is usually some sort of paralyzing anxiety.

BEHAR: Right.

PINSKY: Panic attack or inability to function or severe depression. All that very, very common problems, very treatable problems with medication and then as you say with talk therapy.

BEHAR: Okay guys sit right there. We`ll be right back with more of this.


BEHAR: I`m back with my panel talking about celebrities in rehab. Okay let`s take a look at a clip of Chynna Phillips on Oprah after her sister Mackenzie went public about their father raping the one day at a time star.


CHYNNA PHILLIPS, MACKENZIE PHILLIP`S SISTER: Well she had the courage to come out and talk about it, and I`m proud of my sister. Am I exceedingly that my family secret that I told maybe my therapist, my husband and my very best friend in the world know now, it is a platform for everybody to know, it`s very upsetting.


BEHAR: So do you think that revelations about you know the father being public, we talked about it a little bit, is that really what`s going on? I mean a lot of these celebrities might be looking for attention sometimes. You know you have to watch out for that, too.

CAPLAN: No, you`re right. I should clarify also, friends of hers also told People that that was not the sole issue which had lead her at the place where she is, in this so called rehab for anxiety.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

CAPLAN: And I should add because you know Dr. Drew was saying this. That`s even a term that her people are getting out there. This is rehab for anxiety, so and -- but this is something -- they`re saying it wasn`t the sole issue and the allegations at that came out. There were other things as well, but it was one of many.

BEHAR: I see, Drew, is there something about saying you`re in the psych ward that people don`t want to admit to? Are they embarrassed about the place?

PINSKY: Yes, right, it sure seems to be, doesn`t it, Joy?


PINSKY: Because we`ve come to terms finally with the idea that an addiction is a disease and it has a treatment and we send people to a place called a rehab, sometimes those rehabs are in psychiatric hospitals. But the idea of being in a psychiatric hospital to take care of your mental health is somehow anthem of how they want to be seen, which is sad.

Well the fact is, here`s the deal, she has a disorder, whether it`s depression or anxiety, whatever it might be, she`s taking care of it and she`s going to be fine, she`s a human being that has a very, very traumatic history that is now being discussed, very evocative for her. And God bless her for taking proper care of her.

BEHAR: It`s more Hollywood to say you`re a drinker or coke addict than to say, remember what it`s called, you`re having a nervous breakdown.

CAPLAN: I think it`s almost like sexier to say rehab to be honest.



CAPLAN: Rehab sounds better than a psych ward. It doesn`t sound crazy.

BEHAR: Yes it does, what about Brooke Mueller? What do you think about her? She might be having an anxiety attack also. I mean she`s drinking but she is also threatened by her husband.

PINSKY: Right but she maybe having an anxiety attack but she was actually, has admitted now to a chemical dependency program. No doubt, I mean addicts have overwhelming anxiety and all kinds of mood disturbances. But the primary use of --

BEHAR: Which comes first? Which comes first?

PINSKY: Well this is something that people debate a lot in mental health circles. In my world, it doesn`t matter which comes first, if you have addiction that must be treated first before you can deal with the other issues. And that`s what is going on with Brooke here. She was medically stabilized, now she is in a chemical dependency program and she`s had long-term sobriety. And listen while taking somebody with long-term sobriety and retreating that is very difficult. They start to sort of know too much.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

PINSKY: And it`s difficult to get back in the program.

BEHAR: There`s also the issue of privacy. I mean, plenty of stars get facelifts, nobody even knows about it. So obviously you can can`t keep it a secret, can`t you, Dave, if you want to?

CAPLAN: Yes, you can definitely keep it a secret if you want to.


CAPLAN: For example, Chynna`s rep didn`t have to go out there and say that she went to the so-called anxiety rehab?

BEHAR: Yes, no why did he?

CAPLAN: I mean it gets that out there because that we, you know, people have - people may already have had had a different impression of the celebrity going into rehab. This way it sort of provides them with a clean slate going forward.

BEHAR: Uh huh.

CAPLAN: And they`re no longer really held to any standards before hand in terms publicity. Rehab equals new start and fresh start.

BEHAR: But Chynna didn`t have to say anything about it. She has enough money I`m sure from her father, in the mama`s and the papa`s to go to Switzerland to a rehab center or whatever and treat her anxiety in Vienna with a Freudian analyst. Thanks for joining me gentlemen and thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.