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Joy Behar Page
Tiger Woods to Hold Press Conference; JFK`s Love Letters to Mistress Go on Auction; Sarah Palin v. `Family Guy
Aired February 17, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Tiger Woods announces he`ll hold a press conference this Friday. But he won`t be taking questions. That is so wrong. How can Tiger do this to me after all the press I`ve given him?
Then love letters from John F. Kennedy to his Swedish mistress go on public auction today. Ich bin ein horn dog (ph).
And finally, she took issue with David Letterman and now she`s ticked off at "The Family Guy". Is Sarah Palin offended by everything on television? Next she`ll be claiming ABC`s "Lost" is about her.
That and more starts right now.
Bizarre new details are emerging about the suspected Alabama shooter Amy Bishop. The Harvard-educated professor reportedly had violent encounters in her past including punching a woman at an iHop after a fight about a child booster seat.
Plus, we`re learning more about the day Bishop killed her brother and the disturbing behavior that followed.
Joining me now with the latest is Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, and Dr. Michael Welner, one of America`s top forensic psychiatrists and chairman of the forensic panel.
Stacey, let me start with you. Let`s start with her brother.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Right.
BEHAR: Her brother -- in 1986 after she shot him, Amy Bishop ran out of the house with a gun and held up a man for a getaway car. Let`s listen to that man on "Good Morning America".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM PETTIGREW, HELD AT GUNPOINT: I got the shotgun stuck in my chest. She told me to put my hands up. She told me that her husband was after her. She got into a fight, he`s looking for her. He`s going to kill her. She`s looking for a car. She needs to get away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Then she pointed a gun at a policeman and got caught. Now, how did she not get charged for that, Stacey?
HONOWITZ: I really think that`s the million dollar question. I think everybody is trying to figure that out. If we had certainly the prosecutor`s notes, the state attorney`s notes when the case was presented, we would be able to see why they turned it down.
You know there`s all kinds of allegations and people are out there talking that the mother had some kind of relationship with the police department. And maybe there was special, you know, something special was given to her in return, like we`re not going to prosecute. One child is dead and one child is now possibly -- could be going to prison.
But like I said, it`s very difficult to imagine that if you had a witness that came forward and gave a sworn statement to the police officer, just like he said on "Good Morning America" this morning that the prosecutor`s office would not pick up this charge. It was three or four charges that realistically could have been prosecuted back then.
BEHAR: Right. It sounds like a cover up. The mother was a public official who sat on police personnel committee. That sounds very fishy to me -- just saying.
She was also charged in 2002 with assault and battery for punching a woman in iHop. Before she punched the woman, Dr. Welner, she yelled "I am Dr. Amy Bishop," and socked her one.
I`m assuming that you think her anger is out of control? Yes? Or is that an understatement?
DR. MICHAEL WELNER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: I don`t think you need an expert to tell you that her anger is out of control.
(CROSSTALK)
WELNER: I think what we perhaps learn from this is if she has an experience of aggression without accountability, that`s the point. That she`s someone who has in the past chosen aggression and known that she hasn`t been held accountable for it.
And just from the iHop incident alone, even if we don`t know what happened with her brother, that there`s an awareness on her part that she`s entitled to choose aggression.
Now, how that factored into this, I`ll tell you how it factors in. And I`ve consulted on workplace mass shootings. People who do decimate the workplace by killing their primary focus and then destroying the workplace by murdering the identity of the workplace, in this case, the biology department of this school. They feel entitled to do it because they feel superior.
It`s a crime of high self-esteem. And they blame everyone --
BEHAR: I would call it more narcissism than high self-esteem.
WELNER: That`s a diagnostic issue, but I haven`t seen her and I can`t diagnose it. But the key point is it`s a crime that`s carried out not by someone who feels bad about themselves. It`s by a person who feels exceptional about themselves --
BEHAR: Yes. I got you.
WELNER: Feels wronged and feels entitled to settle the score on that person`s own terms.
HONOWITZ: You know somebody that carries the title that she has, she`s in a very esteemed position, she graduated from a very good school. And I think the doctor will agree and we see when we prosecute cases all the time, people that have a certain place in society, there is a sense of entitlement and also a sense that, "You know what? I won`t be prosecuted for something I did. I won`t get in trouble."
And I think that the university now is really the one that`s looking at some sort of why was there not due diligence done.
BEHAR: Right.
UF1: Is it in her background? Is it on our records somewhere because could it have been prevented if she had this propensity for violence, could something like this have been --
BEHAR: Someone had to stop her. You`re saying that she was entitled -- nobody stopped her.
WELNER: I don`t know that I agree from my vantage point. I can tell you I`ve worked on cases in which one child has killed another. And you don`t have to be a public official. The parents want the cases to go away.
UF1: Absolutely.
WELNER: They have lost a child. They don`t want to sit through a trial. They don`t want to lose another child. So you have a witness who comes and says she pointed a gun at my chest and then you have the parents who are invested and if they`re invested they will say anything.
BEHAR: Ok. Very interesting. Stacey thank you very much.
Michael, sit tight. We`ll be back in 60 seconds when I`ll speak exclusively with one of Amy Bishop`s students. He was there that day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Well, we`re back and we`re discussing those horrific Alabama killings. With me now is someone who knew the suspect, a student in one of her classes that very morning, Drew Cole. Drew, what was class like that morning? How was she behaving?
DREW COLE, STUDENT OF AMY BISHOP: It was just a regular day. Nothing special. She was always very kind to me.
BEHAR: Always very kind to you. What was her personality like as a rule?
COLE: She was a little off the wall.
BEHAR: A little off the wall, like what?
COLE: Like during class, she would go through a book and then she would go off on little tangents about stories that she has and all that kind of stuff.
BEHAR: Did you notice that she ever had a little bit of a dark side or was she just a regular personality, no red flags?
COLE: No, ma`am, I never saw any red flags of any kind.
BEHAR: You know, some students petitioned against her. Did you know that? They said she was odd and unsettling, that she read straight from the book -- sort of what you just said -- didn`t interact with students, and never made eye contact.
COLE: Well, she made eye contact with me. I heard about the petition earlier today. But I never knew anything about that before today.
BEHAR: How did you find out that it was she who shot those people?
COLE: I was at my house, and I was watching the news. I was caught off guard when I found out it was her.
BEHAR: So considering what you just said, you must have been very surprised.
COLE: Yes, ma`am, very surprised.
BEHAR: It was a complete shock to you that someone would behave that way.
COLE: Yes, ma`am.
BEHAR: Do you know about her history with violence and the allegations against her and her history?
COLE: I found out afterwards. Yes, ma`am. I`ve been keeping up with everything.
BEHAR: I see. Did you know that she was upset about not getting tenure? Was that around the school.
COLE: No, I didn`t.
BEHAR: You didn`t know anything about that?
COLE: I never knew anything about that.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about her husband for a second, Dr. Welner. Is it possible that -- they were married a long time -- and he was there. I was mentioning during the break that between 1999 and the year 2003, she and her husband called the police 14 times to complain about kids in the neighborhood. And in 2000, she warned the police that her beef with local kids playing basketball would quote, unquote "come to blows".
What do you think about him? Did he not realize that she was a potential time bomb?
WELNER: I don`t think anyone anticipates that someone will carry out a workplace mass shooting. In my professional experience of working on these cases, I`ve interviewed families of shooters, some of whom had lived with them, had the guns in the home and never fathomed something like this happen, even if they were living with an angry person.
Mass shootings are single solitary crimes that are carried out by a person who keeps his own counsel, typically his own counsel and on his own schedule and that`s a very important point for the audience to understand.
These are not crimes carried out by people who snap. They`re carried out by people who have been thinking about it for a long time and then decide today`s the day. We`re going to have to figure out what made her decide today is the day.
And we just heard from someone who was a student who said that she was uneventful in class. Anything relating to her insanity or her mental state has to look at how she was on that day. Not whether she was an undesirable teacher a year earlier.
Clearly we know that she`s different because not any woman would go carry out a mass shooting. But different may be mentally ill. And different may also be psychopathic. The two are very different.
BEHAR: She was also on a shooting range prior to this event.
WELNER: Well, I mean look --
BEHAR: Practicing shooting out of nowhere.
WELNER: You know something. We don`t know anything about out of nowhere and the shooting and practicing shooting -- many, many women practice shooting and they do it responsibly. She made a choice that had nothing to do with her shooting, but what she was thinking about when she was practicing is something we`re going to have to study and get a better read on.
BEHAR: Drew --
COLE: Yes Ma`am?
BEHAR: Is there anything else you would like to tell us before we go about this teacher?
COLE: Yes. On the day of the shooting during my class, she talked about finishing her grants. I`m not sure what that had to do or what it was, but that was the first time she had mentioned it.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. She was talking about finishing her grant, she was worried about tenure. Drew, Michael, thank you very much.
Coming up a little later in the show, Tiger gets ready to talk.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Sarah Palin is fighting mad at the "Family Guy`s" satirical slam of her Down syndrome son, Trig taking her outrage to the "O`Reilly Factor" last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: This world is full of cruel, cold-hearted people who would do such a thing. I look at Trig and I see perfection. I see a precious little child. Already toddling around, you can see that he has a heart of gold.
When are we going to be willing to say, "You know, some things just aren`t really funny."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me is actor John C. McGinley from ABC`s sitcom "Scrubs" and a spokesperson for the National Down Syndrome Society Annual Buddy Walk. He`s also the father of a 12-year-old son with Down syndrome. Thanks for doing this, John.
JOHN MCGINLEY, ACTOR: Joy thanks for having us on.
BEHAR: Right. Before we start talking, let`s have another look at the "Family Guy" clip causing all the commotion. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to be (INAUDIBLE) all evening? You haven`t asked me anything about myself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, sorry. So what do your parents do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s better. My dad is an accountant and my mom is the former governor of Alaska.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s cool.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s real cool.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. You know they have -- just before we start -- they have made fun of people with AIDS, people in wheelchairs. I mean, they are an equal opportunity cartoon that bashes everybody. Was it offensive this episode to you?
MCGINLEY: Well, I`ve only seen the clip, but bear in mind, Joy, there`s nothing unique about what Seth MacFarlanes of the world are doing.
When you choose to use satire as a shield or hide behind "we`re only kidding" defense, that`s a slippery slope because if you choose to only target people with special needs or other groups that can`t defend themselves, you`re exercising profound cowardice. When you pick on people with special needs, they didn`t do anything to you to begin with, you`re exposing yourself as a coward.
What is the upside in picking on a group that can`t defend themselves?
BEHAR: I happen to think -- I agree with that in a way, because a comedian, I think that you should always kick up, not kick down. But do you think that -- you`re a comic actor. Does satire ever get a pass?
MCGINLEY: Oh, I don`t know. Look, satire gets a pass if it`s an umbrella that covers everything. I don`t think that Seth MacFarlane uses the "n" word. I doubt he uses disparaging speech about Jews.
BEHAR: He`s done -- actually he has done song parodies about Jews. This guy, he`s all over the place.
MCGINLEY: Who cares? He`s getting way too much credit. There`s a much bigger problem and the problem is that when your first amendment rights are not in any way being compromised when you exercise just a little bit of discretion or heightened sensitivity about not disparaging people with special needs; people who can`t defend themselves.
You`re not in any way being compromised by not being able to use the "r" word. You`re going to be ok.
BEHAR: Ok. Sarah Palin explained the motivation behind her outrage to the "O`Reilly Factor". Let`s check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: I also can see into the future that trig is going to have a pretty tough challenging life in front of him. He`s going to face things that special needs children will face much more difficult than we ever will. So why make it tougher on the special needs community?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Does Palin help get that message out there do you think?
MCGINLEY: Look, Sarah Palin, whatever side of the aisle you`re on, is a mom of a special needs child. So her opinion can`t be invalidated as far as that particular issue goes. If that`s the way she views Trig`s future, then that`s a legitimate view.
Is she getting the message out there? Sure. Does one wish she had come down harder on Limbaugh? Sure. But that`s -- there`s a relationship there. She`s going to need him more than anybody else in the next three years, so she has to salt that peanut.
BEHAR: I know. But that`s saying something right there. That she`s going to need him, Limbaugh you mean, in order to promote herself and politics and whatever else she`s doing.
So then he gets a pass for doing basically the same thing that Rahm Emanuel basically said, but because she disagrees with Rahm Emanuel she goes after him and not Limbaugh as much. There`s something very hypocritical about it that drives everybody nuts. And I think she would have been more effective if she had been more consistent, don`t you?
MCGINLEY: I think she would have been 100 times more consistent but that`s not the game played inside the Beltway.
BEHAR: Right.
MCGINLEY: Those are issues that Sarah Palin seems to be choosing to deal with in her own particular way. It in no way diminishes the hurt caused by people who use the "r" word when they`ve already been informed that that`s a hurtful word. That is hate speech. It`s a put down.
Nobody everybody uses the "r" word as a compliment.
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGINLEY: It`s a way of putting someone down. It`s a way of keeping a group down. If these groups were -- if the comedians, these late night comedians, the Bill Mahers, the Jon Stewarts and all these other spineless cowards who pick on special needs people, if they were to use -- invoked the "n" word or disparaging language about Jews the same way they did the "r" word they would be off the air.
BEHAR: Are kids mean to your son?
MCGINLEY: You saw the -- Imus used "nappy headed" about the Rutgers basketball team, he was gone.
BEHAR: World war III --
MCGINLEY: Gone.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s true.
You have a child with special needs. Are the kids mean to your baby, your boy?
MCGINLEY: Not that I`m aware of. But Max almost always has an adult with him. So there`s a buffer there. That`s not by mistake.
BEHAR: Yes. The only thing is the character in the cartoon is a feisty little girl and I don`t know if this makes any difference to you but the voice is done by an actress who also has Down syndrome. Does that help at all in the argument for their side or not?
MCGINLEY: An actor`s job by definition is to say what the playwright or the screen writer has put down on the page. If you`re going to rewrite the words by whoever has created the show, if you`re going to do that, you`ll have a pretty short visit here in Hollywood or on Broadway or in any television show. So that actress` job was to say what Seth wrote.
BEHAR: Just before we go, should Rahm Emanuel be fired as Palin has asked?
MCGINLEY: No, Rahm Emanuel should not be fired. He joined the Special Olympics "r" word campaign -- discredit the word, to end the word. He acknowledged the mistake he made and he has joined us in spreading the word to end the word.
BEHAR: Thanks, John. I like your work very much. Thanks for doing this.
MCGINLEY: Thank you Joy. Vice versa.
BEHAR: We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Director Kevin Smith is still upset about getting booted from a Southwest Airlines flight from being too heavy. He`s been pretty vocal about it on his podcast, too. Take a look.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
KEVIN SMITH, DIRECTOR: She goes, "The captains says that you can`t sit here." What she wanted to say was, "You`re too fat, you have to buy two seats but this plane`s too full. So you can`t buy two seats so you`re going to have to go."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Buckle or no buckle, is it because he`s a heavy guy and not a heavy woman? Here to talk about this issue and only because he`s very well informed and very fond of aviation and for no other reason is comedian Ralphie May. Ok.
RALPHIE MAY, COMEDIAN: I am, I am. I`m well versed in Southwest. They`re awesome but you have to buy two seats if you`re fat.
BEHAR: You do. You`ve flown with Kevin Smith.
MAY: Yes.
BEHAR: How large is he exactly?
MAY: He`s about 100 pounds less than the kid right here, about 320 I would put him at. He hides it well, though, that`s what he says.
BEHAR: He didn`t look that big to me.
MAY: He says he hides it well. He puts -- he`s got the beard, he puts the coat on, the shorts. And we had a blast. But we sat together in first class on a Northwest flight, that`s the problem, he was flying Southwest and not Northwest.
BEHAR: I see. That is an issue.
MAY: I know. But said that we were going to Minneapolis, I`m surprised we didn`t end up in Chicago with the tilt of the plane.
But we sat together and we had the armrest right here and we`re both kind of like not even on the armrest, we`re just on our fat and it was like when you bake cookies too close together and they kind of make one giant cookie. That`s what we did. If there had been coal between us, we would have made diamonds. It was awesome. We had a blast.
He`s one of the heroes of mine.
BEHAR: But he usually buys too seats, right?
MAY: Yes.
BEHAR: So do you -- you too?
MAY: I always do that. But Southwest is great. If the plane is not sold out, they refund that money back to you.
BEHAR: That`s good.
MAY: so you don`t lose it.
BEHAR: He`s rich, why doesn`t he fly first class on another airline?
MAY: Why is he on Southwest? Exactly. Was Greyhound all booked?
BEHAR: How did he get through the body scanner?
MAY: Oh, I don`t. They just look at me and they start to frisk you but there`s so much to frisk. I just start giggling and they stop. When you start enjoying it, they get creeped out. When they start touching your boobs and you`re like, "There could be something in there." You never know. It`s awesome.
BEHAR: Do they bother the female chubettes?
MAY: Of course. Everybody gets it. Everybody gets it. I think women in general get a much harder rap when it comes to weight more than men. Like in America, you`re not fat if you`re a man until you`re 100 pounds or more overweight. For a woman, it`s never 100 pounds, it`s 20 pounds in Los Angeles and here in New York maybe 5, 10 pounds.
BEHAR: Well, that`s in society in general. We`re talking about on the airlines, do they get harassed also when you have to buy two seats? It`s humiliating isn`t it?
MAY: Yes. Of course. If you need an extender, you have to get two seats. But apparently Kevin still could buckle. So if you can suck in and buckle, I don`t see what the problem is. I don`t think he should add one.
BEHAR: Right. Well, it`s the overflow.
BEHAR: Yes, right. That`s what I do. I have to buy two seats because if I`m in 22 c, I`m in 22 b. You know, let`s be real.
BEHAR: I guess then Ralphie you think that people who are big should buy two seats?
MAY: Right. It costs the airlines more money -- it costs the airlines more money to fly.
BEHAR: What about -- they get two meals, doesn`t that go against the whole idea?
MAY: They should.
BEHAR: But they should only give you one meal to try to trim you down a little bit.
MAY: Yes. But that`s not good for business. If they`re selling two seats on one person, it would profit them to give you an extra meal. That only costs them 5$, $6. Where as the whole seat could be $300 extra. It`s awesome, you know.
BEHAR: Ok, Ralphie. Stick around, when we come back, Tiger Woods is ready to break his silence. We`ll have all of the details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Oh, after three bouts of silence and hiding under baseball caps, Tiger Woods is finally speaking out. Will he tell all? Will he tell anything? We don`t know. But he plans to make an announcement from the safety of PGA Headquarters Friday morning and lucky for us, a camera will be there to tape it. Here now to discuss this and so much more are comedian Ralphie May, Sharon Waxman, Editor and Chief of thewrap.com. And Rob Shutter, AOL`s "Popeater" columnist.
Okay Tiger`s agent says he plans to discuss his future and apologize for his past behavior. How do you think he`s going to handle it?
SHARON WAXMAN, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THEWRAP.COM": Badly. Badly, badly.
BEHAR: Why? What is he going to do.
WAXMAN: Why should he break the pattern? He`s been handling it badly from the beginning.
BEHAR: Well he hasn`t really said anything.
WAXMAN: He set this up so that it`s a one-way conversation, and no questions allowed. Friends and family only, only on friendlies.
BEHAR: Yes.
WAXMAN: And one camera there. Well that`s a recipe for everybody to pounce on whatever he says after it`s done, it`s going to be dissected on every cable channel and on every broadcast.
BEHAR: Yes.
WAXMAN: And sports and celebrity and all over the internet.
BEHAR: And what`s wrong with that?
WAXMAN: Because that`s the reason to be here today. But he`s not likely to give a satisfying explanation to --
ROB SHUTER, AOL`S "POPEATER" COLUMNIST: I think he should be explaining this himself. For many months, he`s had many young ladies out there discussing this on his behalf which by might not have been the best thing to do.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
SHUTER: And so instead of having these ladies be his spokesperson, he should do it himself and tell us his side of the story for once and for all and we can all move on. That`s not going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you think he`ll confirm the final number?
SHUTER: No, I think that people -
WAXMAN: Does he know.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: I think they have their head in the sand and they`re hoping this goes away, I think they`re going to talk a lot about the future and very little about the past and it`s going to go nowhere.
BEHAR: But it`s not going to go away so fast because all these women keep coming out and talking because everybody wants their 15 minutes.
SHUTER: Absolutely, it`s going to reunite the whole -
BEHAR: They`re all going to ban together and have a class action suit against Tiger. Do you think he`ll admit to anything, Ralphie?
RALPHI MAY, COMEDIAN: I doubt it. He hasn`t been a man so far, so I wouldn`t assume he`s suddenly going to change. This whole is just a spectacle. I mean the whole sex rehab is a spectacle. The whole thing, I mean every man is addicted to sex. Okay, stop. I mean it`s great.
BEHAR: Are you addicted to sex?
MAY: Of course. I`m a man. We are. It`s awesome. Come on, it`s great.
BEHAR: What about his wife, Sharon, will she be by his side, Elin?
WAXMAN: That`s a really good question. I hope not. Don`t you hope she can just stay home and have her nails done?
BEHAR: You think she`s going to show up there with a big Kobe Bryant in the ring -
WAXMAN: Yes exactly.
BEHAR: Do you think that`s going to happen?
SHUTER: We were talking to her on Popeater and she`s getting pressure to being there. That his team wants her there. His team wants her there.
WAXMAN: Well of course they do.
SHUTER: To stand there and she might be there. Like this is a lady that has sort of not --
WAXMAN: Maybe he should apologize to his sponsors. You know that`s what this is really about.
BEHAR: What about the public, do you think that when he comes back and plays again that the public will be embracing again or are they going to just say we`ve had it with you, what do you think?
WAXMAN: He`s a great golfer.
BEHAR: He`s a great golfer?
SHUTER: Yes I think if he comes out with a great game of golf, we`ll forgive him.
MAY: If you win, they love you. I mean nobody cares, if -- as long as you win, nobody cares. This is what I want him to come out and say, I want him to come out and say hi, I`m Tiger Woods, this is what`s going to happen in 2010. I`m going to come to your town, I`m going to bang a ton of white women and I`m going to win a golf championship and there`s nothing you can do about it. How do you like them apples?
BEHAR: I would really tune in to that. Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
MAY: That`s a man.
BEHAR: That`s a man. I would tune into that.
MAY: Right?
BEHAR: Yes.
MAY: That you know what just own it, you know. I made a mistake. Obviously I didn`t want to be married. I shouldn`t have done this to my wife. I shouldn`t have done this. But if the ring didn`t prevent him, that trip to sex rehab isn`t going to prevent him, doing it again. I mean come on.
BEHAR: Yes but he only spent four weeks in sex rehab.
(CROSSTALK)
WAXMAN: I think Ralphie is speaking from experience?
BEHAR: Okay let`s turn to another story that somehow was reminiscent of this. Love letters written by John F. Kennedy have surfaced that show his romantic side. As if we didn`t know that. If only they were addressed to his wife at the time. Instead, the recipient was a Swedish model named Gunilla Von Post. And today, wow, 50 some odd years after she received them, she`s offering the correspondence up for auction. Okay I would like you to check out what he wrote to her in June of `54. He was married then to Jackie. This is one of the quotes. I`ve read them, I was loving them, I`ve read them before.
"I might get a boat and sail around the Mediterranean for two weeks with you as crew."
BEHAR: Ohhhh. Pretty good, huh? So what do you think, the two were planning a secret rendezvous in Europe. What do you think about this? That now we have scandal after scandal in politics. We`ve got John Edwards, we`ve got all these other hound dogs.
MAY: Sanford.
BEHAR: Sanford. It`s the same in 1955 and `63 and `73.
MAY: Men are addicted to sex, okay?
WAXMAN: Didn`t you just say that?
MAY: It`s the same thing.
SHUTER: I`m sure some men aren`t addicted to sex. I kind of wish that we don`t know about these letters. I would like them to still be private.
MAY: You would?
SHUTER: I would.
BEHAR: Well how about this. The two were planning a secret rendezvous in Europe in 1955. This is what he wrote in the telegram about that rendezvous.
"I just got word today that my wife and sister are coming here. It will all be complicated the way I feel now, my Swedish flicker. All I had done is sit in the sun and look at the ocean and think of Gunilla. All love Jack"
BEHAR: Very romantic.
SHUTER: Compared to what these texts Tiger is sending these days --
MAY: Oh yes.
BEHAR: I think he`s more like Sanford. It`s his soul mate.
WAXMAN: For a week in Europe is his soul mate?
BEHAR: Well he carried on a long thing with her.
SHUTER: Why is she - for 30 odd years or so.
WAXMAN: Well I have to agree. Well maybe she needs the money.
SHUTER: Oh without the health care going south. She`s life with a copra -
(CROSSTALK)
WAXMAN: Well I mean she not here.
BEHAR: No she`s an older woman now.
WAXMAN: Where?
SHUTER: But is she here.
BEHAR: I don`t know where she is now. Right we don`t know.
WAXMAN: Well she may need the money, maybe she doesn`t have children. But I kind of feel like you do, I really wish we didn`t have to learn about these things.
BEHAR: Why not?
WAXMAN: Well, because --
BEHAR: I like hearing about it.
WAXMAN: Why?
BEHAR: Because it`s interesting history. It`s history. Gossip, Sharon, is a form of history. Only it`s just more interesting than the usual.
WAXMAN: Oh good that makes us feel so much more seriously minded. But honestly, what`s uncomfortable about it is it does provide a reflection of what`s going on in today`s society and how we`ve come up with one sex scandal with a politician after another. At least Tiger Wood`s side, I really put him into that at all. But - because that`s - he`s not a politician.
BEHAR: Well.
WAXMAN: I don`t actually think that we should be -
BEHAR: Yes.
WAXMAN: So obsessed with the sex life of our celebrities and/or the politicians.
MAY: Of our politicians.
BEHAR: I think he`s closer to Tiger Woods in the sense that he had a lot of mistresses. You`re probably not old enough to remember it, but I am. There was Marilyn Monroe, everybody knows about her now. I mean there`s allegedly it was Angie Dickinson, there was Judith Exner who was basically mixed up with the -
WAXMAN: Mafia.
BEHAR: Mob. Yes, I mean, he had a lot of girlfriends. And then there were stories how he would have all these women come into his pool at the White House and it was covered up by the press.
SHUTER: Right.
WAXMAN: So here is my question, so do you feel - I`ll ask you, do you feel that there is a difference, does it affect how you regard JFK when you think about him compared to Mark Sanford?
BEHAR: Well I thought he was a pretty good president. You know, he only had a couple years to do whatever he did and he made some very big mistakes as a president. But you know I think if we had known about all these shenanigans in those days, or the fact that he had terrible back issues.
WAXMAN: Right.
BEHAR: That he was not healthy. I think that would have been a big problem for him and it wasn`t.
WAXMAN: But see the question we ask of our politicians is are these sexual affairs evidence that they have poor judgment? And certainly in the case of John Edwards, we have to say a resounding uh-huh.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
WAXMAN: But in Sanford.
BEHAR: Sanford and lying, he we went on the Appalachian Trail -- not. You know.
(CROSSTALK)
WAXMAN: But in JFK`S case, he really had to face serious judgment calls with the Cuban missile crisis.
BEHAR: That`s right.
WAXMAN: And he showed incredibly good judgment in that crisis.
BEHAR: Judgment, good judgment.
SHUTER: You can be a good president and a bad human being. I think that is possible.
WAXMAN: Right.
BEHAR: But he wasn`t -- I wouldn`t call him a bad human being. He was just a hound dog like his father. It was like genetic.
WAXMAN: He was a bad husband.
MAY: I love the curtain being pulled back. Is it ground breaking news? We`ve all known about Marilyn Monroe.
BEHAR: It`s not ground breaking --
SHUTER: The details of it --
(CROSSTALK)
MAY: Right.
BEHAR: And you know Jackie Kennedy and Jack Kennedy were like royalty in the `60s.
MAY: Right.
BEHAR: Tiger Woods and these guys are not royalty.
SHUTER: Right.
MAY: It was a different era, though.
BEHAR: But admit it, you can`t wait to see the press conference. Admit it, Sharon.
MAY: I love it. I love it.
(LAUGHTER)
SHUTER: We might be on the back ground.
BEHAR: I don`t think he`s going to tell us anything.
MAY: He`s not going to say anything.
BEHAR: But we`ll see about that. And I will be here to report it. Thanks, everyone. If you`re in North Carolina this weekend, catch Ralphie May at Good Night Comedy Club in Raleigh. And happy birthday, Ralphie.
MAY: Thank you so much.
SHUTER: Happy birthday.
BEHAR: Look, we got you a little cake.
(LAUGHTER)
MAY: Wonderful. Awesome.
Happy birthday to you, Happy birthday to you.
BEHAR: We can`t sing it, we have to pay for it, back in a minute with the teen moms from MTV`S hit reality show "16 and Pregnant."
MAY: Oh thank you so much, that was hilarious.
BEHAR: Yehay.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Teenage life is stressful enough without having to add pregnancy to the mix. Just ask the girls on the MTV`s hit documentary series "16 and Pregnant" which just started its second season. But does the show simply dramatize teen pregnancy or does it glamorize it?
Joining me now are three of this season`s teen moms Lori, Leah, and Chelsea. Greetings, girls. Thanks for doing this, okay. Let me ask Leah a question. What went through your mind when you first found out that you were pregnant? You were 16, right?
LEAH, TEEN MOM: Yes, I was. Wow, I really don`t -- I was really shocked and surprised.
BEHAR: You were?
LEAH: Yes. I really didn`t know what to think when I found out I was pregnant.
BEHAR: These are personal questions, so I hope you don`t mind me asking. Were you using contraception?
LEAH: I actually was the one the Deprovera shot.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEAH: And I was due to go take it again. And had missed it but like that week I went. Or it was like I found out I was pregnant and the next week I was suppose to go to my doctor`s appointment to get the shot.
BEHAR: Uh huh so you missed the shot?
LEAH: Yes. I know.
BEHAR: And that`s all it takes. You now know that. you now know that, did you take sex ed classes? Any of you?
CHELSEA: Yes.
BEHAR: You never did Laura, you took them, Chelsea, what did you learn in sex ed?
CHELSEA: You learn about contraceptive, we learned about STDS and everything and pregnancy.
BEHAR: Did they teach you about contraception?
CHELSEA: Yes.
BEHAR: They did. The use of condoms?
CHELSEA: Uh-huh.
BEHAR: and other forms of birth control.
CHELSEA: Yes.
BEHAR: Did they teach you about abstinence.
CHELSEA: Yes.
BEHAR: How did you feel about abstinence? Did you think well I`m sexually active now and it`s too late? Or what?
CHELSEA: Well I think abstinence is the way to go, but I mean teenagers, they --
BEHAR: They don`t do it.
CHELSEA: Yes. You`re just teenagers and what you learn, you`re always going to go against it, or, not always. But - so
BEHAR: So you didn`t -- you weren`t practicing abstinence.
CHELSEA: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes, we know that. All right. Okay so now Lori, how did your parents react when you told them?
LORI: Both of my parents were very upset.
BEHAR: They were both upset. Did they know you had been sexually active?
LORI: I never had come out and told them but I`m sure they knew.
BEHAR: You think so, did your parents know you were active sexually?
CHELSEA: My mom did and I`m sure my dad had an idea but I never went up and told them.
BEHAR: Had they spoken to you about sex, your parents? I mean this is a tough thing for parents, I know.
CHELSEA: Yes.
BEHAR: I know, very hard, I have a daughter and I don`t remember telling her.
CHELSEA: I think this show is a great way for parents to start that conversation.
LEAH: Exactly.
LORI: Yes.
BEHAR: Uh huh. Yes. Did your parents know Leah that you were sexually active.
LEAH: Yes my mom did.
BEHAR: Your mother did.
LEAH: Me and my mom are really close. I tell her everything.
BEHAR: And did she say, you know, what did she say about that when you told her you were sleeping with your boyfriend?
LEAH: I mean of course, she didn`t agree with it. But what is she going to do, keep me in my room? I mean seriously --
BEHAR: She couldn`t tie you down.
LEAH: Yes, she couldn`t tie me down. Exactly. She pretty much just took me down and put me on the shot and, you know --
BEHAR: Uh-huh. Now, you girls have kept your babies. And Lori, your baby is being adopted, right?
LORI: Yes.
BEHAR: In some kind of an open adoption I understand?
LORI: It is an extremely open adoption.
BEHAR: Uh huh how did you come to the conclusion to do that and how did you decide to keep your babies? Tell me yours, what is your story?
LORI: Well, when I was pregnant, I was still 17, even when I did give birth. And that`s the thing, I`m only 17. I wasn`t ready to be a mom yet. And choosing the adoption I am still part of my son`s life.
BEHAR: You`re part of the baby`s life?
LORI: Yes. I see him very often and I see how happy he is. Every time I see him all I can do is smile.
BEHAR: So he`s been adopted by people who live in your area so that you can see the child?
LORI: Yes. They live pretty close, yeah.
BEHAR: Oh I see, now, you guys decided to keep the babies, even though you`re very young like Lori.
LEAH: Yes.
BEHAR: How did you come to the decision? Tell me.
CHELSEA: For me, it wasn`t a hard decision because my family is extremely supportive and helped me through everything and I was able to take care of her and have my family help me.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
CHELSEA: So I thought it would be the best for her to--
BEHAR: And for you too, Leah?
LEAH: Exactly, yes. Well it`s the same thing. Some people -- their opinions are different. I mean some people can support them. Some people can`t. In my situation, I could.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
LEAH: And I made my bed, so I had to lie in it, you know?
BEHAR: Uh huh
LEAH: I did what I did and it`s my job to take care of him.
BEHAR: So had you considered adoption or abortion?
LEAH: No.
BEHAR: No? Had you?
CHELSEA: No.
BEHAR: You never considered adoption?
CHELSEA: No.
BEHAR: Uh huh had you considered getting a procedure?
LORI: No. Never.
BEHAR: Uh huh are you catholic girls, religious girls? That would be the reason I guess.
LORI: No
BEHAR: Uh-huh. Well that would be the reason I guess huh. So how did you get involved with the show exactly? How did that happen?
LORI: My mom actually sent an e-mail to MTV, because she saw the final episode of last season, which was Katlan Taylor (ph) which was an adoption and she felt that it wasn`t very open and it kind of scared her to even let me watch it, she thought I would be scared out of an adoption. Because my brother and I are both adopted.
BEHAR: You are adopted to so it`s sort of like you understand it.
LORI: I do.
BEHAR: You understand adoption.
LORI: Yes. My family -- I`m surrounded by adoption. I know very, very, very many people that are adopted.
BEHAR: Are you in touch with your biological parts?
LORI: I`m not.
BEHAR: You are not. Would you like to be?
LORI: No not yet, no. I`m not ready.
BEHAR: Well I mean because your child is in touch with you.
LORI: Yes, he is.
BEHAR: So you might come to that decision at some point. Would your adopted parents be supportive?
LORI: Yes, definitely.
BEHAR: They would.
LORI: We`ve had that discussion.
BEHAR: Did you have any hesitation about being filmed in labor? That`s a big one.
LEAH: No actually.
CHELSEA: When you`re in labor --
BEHAR: You don`t care. Bring it on, who cares.
CHELSEA: But that is the bad part too that everybody needs to see, the pain.
BEHAR: Did you get an epidural?
LEAH: I had a cesarean.
BEHAR: You had a cesarean. Oh boy.
LEAH: Yes, I went into labor three times.
BEHAR: Oh boy, you got the epidural?
CHELSEA: I did the epidural.
BEHAR: And you as well.
LORI: I did as well, yes.
BEHAR: It`s the greatest, isn`t it?
CHELSEA: Yes.
LEAH: Barely leaving.
BEHAR: What is your advice for girls before we go to the next segment, which we`re going to bring in Mary Jo, your mother. But what is your advice to girls out there? Do you just have little piece of advice.
LEAH: Use contraceptives.
CHELSEA: Yes, if you`re going to have sex, which you should wait till you`re married or with someone you are -- when you`re ready for a baby, that`s when you should have sex.
BEHAR: And what about your boyfriends? I haven`t even asked you about that I mean do you have -- how are your boyfriends dealing with this.
LEAH: Well, we`re actually separated right now.
BEHAR: Okay. So you`re a single mom?
LEAH: Right now, yes. I mean but he helps - he helps a lot.
BEHAR: He does?
LEAH: Yes.
BEHAR: But he`s probably not the guy you`re going to marry, right?
LEAH: I don`t know.
BEHAR: You might. How what about you?
CHELSEA: Me and him are always back and forth.
BEHAR: You are back and forth?
CHELSEA: Yes.
BEHAR: And what about your boyfriend Lori?
LORI: We are not together anymore. It`s tough. But I wish that he could be more involved than he is. I mean obviously I still love him.
BEHAR: Uh huh, I see. Always the girls get the brunt of it. You know that?
Yes.
BEHAR: Stay right there ladies. Lori`s mom joins us when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You haven`t been taking care of this baby since it was born. Damn it. Stay home and take care of the kid. You need to feel like this baby is like the draw bird cat. That lays on the coach up -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you know what I feel like?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you shut up and listen?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what I feel like? I don`t even feel like you`re my mom no more. I feel like I have to follow all of these rules just to live in your house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, it`s not exactly the Waltons, is it? That was teen mom Janelle and her mom arguing about taking care of the baby in MTV`s "16 and Pregnant."
Back with me are three teen moms from season two of the show. And joining us now Lori`s mom Mary Jo.
Hello Mary Jo, thanks for doing this. Now, being the mom of a teen mom is not easy. How did you react when she told you when she was pregnant?
MARY JO, LORI`S MOM: Well, obviously I was very shocked. It`s not anything that you want for your teenage daughter.
BEHAR: Uh huh, have you discussed sex? I was telling them over the break I don`t think I ever had the conversation with my daughter and now that she`s married, she can have it with her husband. Yes, I`m just teasing now. But I never really had it.
And I think it`s a tough thing for parents to do which is why I think they should teach sex ed in school? How do you feel about that?
MARY JO: Yes. Absolutely. We`ve had this discussion many times with Lori. I`m a registered nurse and I worked many years in the emergency room taking care of young children in the emergency room as a result of teenage pregnancy. And my husband is anesthetist, who puts epidurals in teenage moms daily. So we know that it is out there. We know that it`s out there, we know that it`s very prevalent. And, yes, we`ve had this discussion many, many times.
BEHAR: And I understand that you were part and parcel on deciding to put the baby up for adoption with your daughter. How did you make that decision?
MARY JO: Well, the correct terminology now is making an adoption plan because you`re really not giving your baby up. With adoptions being open now, you can be very much a part of that child`s life.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
MARY JO: And continue to be a child yourself. You can continue to go to school, get your education. It really is the best of both worlds for these young girls today.
BEHAR: And probably for the child too I would think?
MARY JO: Absolutely.
BEHAR: There`s no mystery, no secrets.
MARY JO: Absolutely. I`m sorry.
BEHAR: That`s all right.
MARY JO: When our children were adopted, both of my children were adopted. Adoptions were closed and that leaves many questions for both of my children. And now there are no questions. He will know that Lori is his birth mother. He will know that Lori loved him and that he -- Lori made the best decision for him. Every decision that was made was made in the baby`s best interests.
BEHAR: Okay. Lori, how has your relationship with your mom changed since all this happen?
LORI: We have grown a lot closer now. I can tell her anything since this has happen. I mean that`s probably one of the worst things you can tell a parent is that you are pregnant when you`re a teenager. And --
BEHAR: Well, there are worst things. You can tell her that you are sick.
LORI: True. Just even with my dad, my entire family, we have grown a lot closer. It`s a lot easier to talk to my parents or even my older brother.
BEHAR: Has your relationship with your parents gotten better since this whole thing has opened now?
LEAH: Yes.
CHELSEA: They treat me more like an adult -
LEAH: An adult - yes.
BEHAR: They do.
CHELSEA: Yes.
BEHAR: Well good luck to very much. Thanks for doing this and good luck. Thanks for joining me. The new season of "16 And Pregnant" airs on Tuesdays 10p.m. on eastern on MTV. Good night everybody.
END
