Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Interview With Kathy Griffin; Elton John: Jesus Was Gay
Aired February 19, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, her last television special was called "Kathy Griffin, She`ll Cut a Bitch". Well, the D-Lister will be here as soon as security lets through her the metal detector.
Then what`s sleazier than Jon Gosselin? Maybe his ex-girlfriend speaking publicly about his manhood.
And let`s set the record straight here once and for all. Elton John says Jesus was gay. Well, he wasn`t. Pat Robertson I`m not so sure about.
That and more right now.
Elton John has always put the out in outrageous and his new interview with "Parade" magazine will no doubt cause a bit of outrage. Sir Elton says he thinks Jesus was a super intelligent gay guy.
Now, how does Elton John know if Jesus was gay? He wasn`t there, right? John McCain was probably there, let`s ask him.
Here to discuss Elton`s remarks as well as some other juicy tidbits from this past week are comedian and CBS "Sunday Morning" contributor, Mo Rocca; from the "New York Daily News" gate crasher columnist, Amanda Sidman; and comedienne extraordinary Jessica Kirson.
Let me read to you exactly what Sir Elton said so you can respond, ok.
"I think Jesus was a compassionate, super-intelligent gay man who understood human problems. On the cross, he forgave the people who crucified him. Jesus wanted us to be loving and forgiving."
So what do you think about what he said?
MO ROCCA, COMEDIAN: Well, I don`t think that Jesus was gay. I fell for the whole Abraham Lincoln thing was gay a few years ago. But no, I think probably at least if one of the apostles -- one of the 12 apostles was gay, if statistics hold, either Thaddeus or Bartholomew. Barabbas was definitely gay. He was a hot leather daddy. That`s why the whole crowd kept saying, "We want Barabbas, we want Barabbas."
BEHAR: Is that so?
Thaddeus and who`s the other one?
ROCCA: Bartholomew.
BEHAR: Those two?
ROCCA: At least one of those was gay, probably, one of those apostles.
JESSICA KIRSON, COMEDIAN: I think Jesus was gay, believe it or not. I really do. He was always groomed very well, good-looking guy, great abs. He had an amazing dinner party the night before.
BEHAR: I don`t know if he had great abs exactly. He was a thin Jewish guy.
KIRSON: He worked out a lot.
BEHAR: Yes.
KIRSON: And, you know, he was -- he looked good. There`s no -- and he was nice, you know, all gay men are nice.
AMANDA SIDMAN, GATECRASHER COLUMNIST, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": He wasn`t well groomed, necessarily.
BEHAR: All gay men are not nice. That`s just as dumb as stereotyping as all gay men are not nice.
KIRSON: I don`t feel safe with you.
BEHAR: That`s a good call.
Amanda, do you think Christians everywhere will be offended by this whole topic and does it matter?
SIDMAN: I think absolutely. But I think what also is -- we need to know is that the only example that he gives is that Jesus was compassionate. And there`s not really a real argument there. There`s no other example of why he`s gay.
BEHAR: Exactly. My point, he wasn`t there.
ROCCA: Right. Ok, but he says that Jesus was gay, intelligent and compassionate. This is probably the first time that conservative Christians have agreed with 2/3 of what Elton John has said.
BEHAR: Right. That`s true.
Ok. Sarah Palin blasted the Fox sitcom, "Family Guy" this week after the show included a not-so-thinly veiled reference to her and her family. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re going to be this rude all evening? You haven`t asked me anything about myself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, sorry. What do your parents do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s better. My dad is an accountant and my mom is the former governor of Alaska.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, that`s cool.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s real cool.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, Jessica, do you think that was offensive or funny?
KIRSON: I thought it was both, to be honest. I really did. It is funny to me because, you know, it`s funny, period. But it is offensive because they`re targeting one person, instead of making fun of a group, which all comics do and the show does.
They make fun of every group of people. But they targeted her and her family. I don`t care about her, but I`m saying they targeted the child.
BEHAR: Right.
There are so many other things to attack Sarah Palin on, why go there?
KIRSON: Right.
BEHAR: I`m sort of with her on this. Yes.
ROCCA: I`m with her. Look, if there`s one thing to admire Sarah Palin for is that she`s raising a special needs child. So yes, it`s a virtual (ph) irreproachable thing.
BEHAR: Amy you agree with that.
UM2: I do think that we need to know that this is what the show is about.
BEHAR: Amanda -- I`m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no. This show makes fun of people all the time and they do make personal attacks. Whereas I personally don`t necessarily think that it was the right thing to do, I think this has happened before and Seth MacFarlane actually said, "We`re offensive to everybody."
And they wouldn`t make a normal apology. They said, "This is what we do all the time."
BEHAR: You know, I think that as comedians we have a sort of an obligation to make fun of the guys up above, not the guys down below, people who are in trouble, people in pain. What`s the point of that? That`s an easy shot.
So I agree with Sarah on this one. And she was also -- she wasn`t laughing and had to say this on the "O`Reilly Factor". Can we play that for a second?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: This world is full of cruel, cold-hearted people who would do such a thing. Look, I look at Trig and I see perfection. I see a precious little child already he`s toddling around. You can see that he has a heart of gold. When are we going to be willing to say, "You know, some things just aren`t really funny?"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, that`s one for Sarah.
Don`t go anywhere. Back in 60 seconds with the latest on Kevin Smith`s feud with Southwest Airlines.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel of pop culture pundits.
Film director Kevin Smith was kicked off a Southwest flight this week for being too, shall we say, more than pleasingly plump. Southwest has since apologized to Smith but this didn`t stop him from getting into a few choice words on his podcast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN SMITH, FILM DIRECTOR: It takes a degree of -- but I can buckle that seat belt still and that is a hallmark for any fat person. You know what I`m saying? It`s like, you can take -- take what you will from me but don`t take the fact that I can still buckle the belt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So he could buckle his belt. The airline, were they wrong? The airline?
KIRSON: Well, I mean, they knew he was fat when he checked in. What, did he walk in thin and then go to the food court and binge and gained 70 pounds? Oh, no. Now I can`t fit the seat.
You came in fat, so all of a sudden they`re like now we don`t want him on the plane. I understand, because on the way here, before I came here, I was thin. I stopped at like 20 drive-thrus and now I look like this. But the point that is bombed --
BEHAR: That`s ok. Don`t worry about it, just move on.
KIRSON: Anyway, the point is that, you know, he really -- he was like that before, so I don`t really understand why they all of a sudden just saw him on the plane and was like no.
BEHAR: I know.
ROCCA: Could it be the air pressure that could do something to your body. My feet swell on a plane.
BEHAR: Do they? Yes, maybe you should keep your feet up. Maybe.
SIDMAN: What they did say in the apology was that Kevin usually books two seats on a flight and they really buried that in the apology, which I think is a pretty big deal. And they said that he was on stand by and once they got him through they realized he only had one seat. If he could still buckle the seat belt then it seems like all should be well.
BEHAR: But they`re saying it`s kind of a safety issue. I don`t really -- what`s the safety problem here? I mean, stop with the bags.
KIRSON: You want someone heavy next to you so that there`s a cushion if you crash.
BEHAR: But then you`d want to sit at (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
ROCCA: And he was sitting in the aisle -- it`s not like he was in a window seat, then it`s a problem.
BEHAR: Well, you should be sitting in the middle seat and then have two huge people and you`d be crushed. I mean that would not be attractive.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s terrible.
SIDMAN: Airplanes have so many more problems. We need our pilots to stay awake and stop checking their e-mail, stop drinking would be a good thing, so maybe this is like --
ROCCA: And drinking does make you heavy also.
BEHAR: But you know fat people are still fair game for comedians. Do you think that`s fair?
KIRSON: Yes, it is fair. Listen, it`s funny. Being fat is funny. That`s how I get a lot of gigs.
BEHAR: But if you`re the fat person doing the jokes, that`s one thing. But a thin person doing fat jokes, is that ok?
KIRSON: No, I don`t think so. I really don`t. You know, but the thing is that also I love that they gave him a $100 voucher, like he needs it.
BEHAR: He doesn`t need that.
KIRSON: That was ridiculous.
SIDMAN: It`s also funny that they sent an apology to him via Twitter, which was the way that he got the story out in the first place. Then they put in their statement, we apologized to him via Twitter and we gave him a $100 voucher. Like that`s what you do?
BEHAR: Kind of cheesy. Too large to not quite large enough, Jon Gosselin`s ex-girlfriend apparently wasn`t impressed with his endowments. I guess Jon`s another example of the inadequate lover sinking to the level of his incompetence. I believe they call this the small Peter principle.
All right, his ex-girlfriend, Hailey Glassman did an interview with "Steppin` Out" magazine and she said she didn`t think Jon would cheat on her because he was so small, calling him tiny, tiny, tiny. Is this fair of her? I think it`s obnoxious, frankly.
KIRSON: It`s horribly obnoxious and look at her in that picture. It looks like she has one the same size. She looks horrible.
BEHAR: That is a fashion faux pas.
ROCCA: I mean --
KIRSON: That`s what I`m saying looking I mean --
ROCCA: Could it be an issue of perception? I mean, maybe she just has a really big vagina.
BEHAR: Yes, like that character in the "Godfather" book, Lucy Mancini, you know that? She had a huge vagina and the only person that would fit was Sonny.
That`s a fact, you know, I took, I put a literary reference here and I get laughs.
ROCCA: But all is stunning if you know what I mean.
BEHAR: That was the literature I was quoting there.
ROCCA: And you know she describe it, it`s been described as a stubby --
BEHAR: Yes.
ROCCA: -- number, right?
BEHAR: Yes.
ROCCA: Well, the thing is, it can just be reshaped into a long thin one.
BEHAR: That`s true, like one of those -- like one of those balloons.
ROCCA: Right.
KIRSON: Oh my God I`m so nauseous.
BEHAR: She said that?
KIRSON: Whoever expected him to be huge? I mean, really, did you?
ROCCA: Yes.
KIRSON: Look at him. You know it`s small.
ROCCA: But can I -- can I just say to get people help out there. My AP bio teacher told me that a plastic penis is inversely proportion to the size of the (INAUDIBLE) so the smaller is placid but huger it gets hard.
BEHAR: Thank you for sharing it. And thanks everyone.
Up next, the always entertaining Kathy Griffin stops by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIENNE: We`re pissed and we`re not leaving until we get results.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I would take it you were their leader?
GRIFFIN: Oh, nothing gets by you, Curly.
Deb Duffy (ph) president, founder, and spokeswoman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, LetsBeStrong.com. Oh, the gay rights group.
GRIFFIN: What gay rights? The lesbian rights? Something you clowns obviously know nothing about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I said no lighting on that show.
GRIFFIN: It`s very serious on that show.
BEHAR: Well, that was a sneak peek of Kathy Griffin in a rare dramatic role in an upcoming "Law and Order" special.
GRIFFIN: Soon to be an Emmy-nominated.
BEHAR: Soon to be Emmy-nominated.
So she`s not only outspoken but she`s versatile. And however you think I mean that, I do.
She also stars on Bravo`s "My Life on the D List" and whatever else she can finagle her way on to, like this show.
GRIFFIN: No --
BEHAR: Dear Kathy.
GRIFFIN: -- it`s true I am. And I`m at the Garden three nights and I have a book signing tomorrow at the Barnes & Noble on 5th but I`ve also finagled you into being on "The D List" after this.
BEHAR: I know, I heard about that.
GRIFFIN: So you`re not done with your day.
BEHAR: No I`m not.
GRIFFIN: You`re going to have to go shoot with me.
BEHAR: Ok, that`s fine.
GRIFFIN: It`ll be fun. It will be 20 minutes.
BEHAR: Yes. So what are you playing on "Law & Order"? A lesbian?
GRIFFIN: I play a lesbian activist and they said that she`s like the lesbian Al Sharpton, which is a good role.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
GRIFFIN: Think about it.
BEHAR: So a kind of like a --
GRIFFIN: Al Sharpton as a white lesbian.
BEHAR: -- a trouble maker -- a trouble making white lesbian --
GRIFFIN: Rabble rouser -- it was a stretch.
BEHAR: But you had a moment with Mariska Hargitay.
GRIFFIN: I have a real moment.
BEHAR: Let`s -- look, I want to see it.
GRIFFIN: Ok.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Is it me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. It`s me. I`m -- I`m, Babs, I`m flattered. I`m just also straight.
GRIFFIN: Oh, come on. I mean, the job and the gun and the attitude? You`re like Ellen, Joan Crawford and Calamity Jane all rolled into one. You can balance a checkbook, look, I`ll throw in Suze Orman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: But where is the kiss? I heard there was a kiss.
GRIFFIN: There is a kiss and what I`m most excited about is I think this could garner me a small but mighty heterosexual male audience.
BEHAR: You think so?
GRIFFIN: But you know the straights have no time for me. They don`t care. It`s the gays and ladies.
BEHAR: But you sell out a lot of shows, they`re all gay?
GRIFFIN: Gays and ladies and then husbands and boyfriends that are dragged there. But I think now that I have kissed the hot Mariska Hargitay --
BEHAR: She is hot.
GRIFFIN: -- it could rope in a few of the straights that don`t really know any better.
BEHAR: Well, if you bring Mariska Hargitay onstage with you maybe.
GRIFFIN: Then and we start making out, that sells tickets.
BEHAR: And how did she react when she heard she had to do a kiss with you?
GRIFFIN: She was thrilled.
BEHAR: Was she?
GRIFFIN: I`m sure after 11 seasons her first lesbian kiss is with me, it was a thrill for her instead of you know, like a Victoria Secret model. But you know, I`ve schooled her. I taught her a few things about a thing or two.
BEHAR: You did, like what? What did you teach her?
GRIFFIN: What was funny is because I was -- I`ve never been so nervous on a job in my life and so -- and you know, I haven`t done like a real acting job in forever and so I had diarrhea for two weeks solid.
BEHAR: You were scared.
GRIFFIN: It was -- but it was great. I lost five pounds. So I could eat whatever I wanted. And I was scared. Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Because I had to know lines and hit marks and like really act. And then when it came time for the kiss moment --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- which actually I`m not sure if I was supposed to reveal until now but there might be a kiss.
BEHAR: There`s a kiss.
GRIFFIN: Then I wasn`t really sort of thinking about that because I was so busy being in character and having diarrhea.
BEHAR: I see. It is -- it`s about memorizing lines and saying them in the exact spot.
GRIFFIN: Being a whole different person.
BEHAR: It`s a little scary.
GRIFFIN: Very much a stretch.
BEHAR: Well, the other person is kind -- that`s fun, isn`t it?
GRIFFIN: That`s fun. Have you had any lesbian kisses with anyone here at HLN?
BEHAR: No not here yet but on "The View" constantly.
GRIFFIN: Constantly. It passes the time.
BEHAR: Meredith was my first. And she`s adorable.
GRIFFIN: She thought she`s a cherry?
BEHAR: And then Whoopi and I lost my virginity though with Meredith.
GRIFFIN: Ok.
BEHAR: Yes.
So now I notice that a lot of dramatic actors, I mean comedians are becoming dramatic actors. Belzer is on that show --
GRIFFIN: Belzer is great on that show.
BEHAR: He`s in there forever.
GRIFFIN: But you know why? Because that show really knows how to write for comedians. So actually as research -- well as research, I watched like 50 episodes. But among them, Jerry Lewis was really great --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- doing a dramatic turn and Carol Burnett was fantastic and Marty Short. And so they came to see me live, they came to see my act and they really kind of helped write the part for me. It was really an honor.
BEHAR: That`s great. But how did you get the part then?
GRIFFIN: They ok, so here I was hosting the Schmemmies (ph) --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- which I lovingly call -- they are the creative arts Emmys but they`re like the fake Emmys and they are a week before, the real Emmys so of course I was the perfect host --
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: -- being on the D List.
And I think they took pity on me. But Neil Baier (ph) who`s the big gun at that show said --
BEHAR: Right.
GRIFFIN: -- I`m going to write a part for you and next year you`re going to get nominated for an Emmy.
BEHAR: Oh.
GRIFFIN: I know and then they did write it. So I thought they were kidding and in fact they wrote it and I did it in a warehouse in Jersey.
BEHAR: Oh that`s great.
GRIFFIN: I know.
BEHAR: That`s great.
Now, you mention to me a clip, it was in the clip you mentioned "American Idol?"
GRIFFIN: Well, I love "American Idol."
BEHAR: The one with the clip --
GRIFFIN: But I`m going to be honest I miss Paula.
BEHAR: Oh you mentioned "American Idol" you mentioned Ellen in the clip.
GRIFFIN: Oh, yes. Because of gay icons of course.
BEHAR: Right, exactly. So now that she`s there what do you think of it?
GRIFFIN: I miss Paula trying to hold her head up for an hour. I -- it`s like nobody is really bobbing and weaving --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- and that`s what I miss. I feel like they`re all too steady, like physically steady. I don`t mean emotionally. I don`t know them but I like when people physically move around a lot --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- and clap like steels or pass out.
BEHAR: See was getting up -- yes. Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- she would dance and you know, I would go to that show live and she would be dancing during the commercial breaks.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: So just so you know, she lives it. She`s not playing around.
BEHAR: Yes, I think we`re going to miss her. What about Howard Stern taking of her?
GRIFFIN: I would love it.
BEHAR: I love it.
GRIFFIN: Yes, I love him. And I think he`s outrageous. I don`t know if he really wants to do it. I mean, I don`t think -- he hates L.A. I think. So he did --
BEHAR: Oh you`d have to go L.A., he won`t go there?
GRIFFIN: Well, he said you have to give me $100 million dollars. But who knows? Maybe they will.
BEHAR: They`re not going to give it to him I don`t think.
GRIFFIN: But I would love to watch what he would say --
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: -- but I would hate to see him censored; that`s the problem.
BEHAR: Don`t you think he is to mean? There is a sort of level of meanness which I think you would be good with because you`re sort of funny mean.
GRIFFIN: I`m mean like.
BEHAR: You`re mean like.
GRIFFIN: I like mean. You can`t be mean enough for me. I enjoy mean.
BEHAR: You`re not really that mean.
GRIFFIN: You`re ruining my career right now. Literally, my ticket sales are plummeting based on this conversation.
BEHAR: You`re not that mean and you`re not on the D List anymore.
GRIFFIN: Oh, stop it, you.
BEHAR: So you -- what are you going to do? You need another concept.
GRIFFIN: "Law and Order" new detective, sexy lesbian detective.
BEHAR: I love that.
GRIFFIN: Bottomless. I wear just a shirt.
BEHAR: Would you do "American Idol" if they asked you? It`s a lot of money.
GRIFFIN: I don`t know about that. I don`t think I`m appropriate for a show like that. It`s like a family show.
BEHAR: Why not? But Howard Stern is?
GRIFFIN: No. He`s not actually. But I would like to see him on it.
BEHAR: I would like to see you on it.
GRIFFIN: Really.
BEHAR: Ok. Get comfortable --
GRIFFIN: Ok.
BEHAR: -- because we have a lot more to talk about. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Griffin, you don`t have to believe this but I just got a call from Cher. And she wants your phone number and wants to call you. I know, and I`m nervous. I`m like, what did I do? What did I say?
Because whenever a celebrity wants to contact me it never goes my way. It`s not, you know, I`m like, what am I, fired? Fired from life? How did I get -- what am I fired from?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back --
GRIFFIN: That was me doing Rosie when Rosie called me to say I get to meet Cher.
BEHAR: Is that who that was?
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: And this is the fabulous Kathy Griffin and that was a clip from her recent DVD, "She`ll Cut a Bitch". Also the name --
GRIFFIN: By the way, I like how you think I can be on "American Idol" and my last special was called, "She`ll Cut a Bitch".
BEHAR: I know. Well, Julie Andrews has the same CD title.
So let`s talk about your stand-up for a minute.
GRIFFIN: I`m doing three nights at the Garden; Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Thursday is sold out. Friday and Saturday but what I was saying that you and I have in common, you know live you can really kind of get away with anything.
BEHAR: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: That`s where the fur really flies.
BEHAR: But you have to give them something extra. They`re paying for a ticket.
GRIFFIN: I do.
BEHAR: On television we have to control our mouths though you rarely do --
GRIFFIN: Correct.
BEHAR: -- when you`re sitting with Anderson I notice.
GRIFFIN: Correct.
BEHAR: What are you going to do?
GRIFFIN: I`m going to be worse than I`ve ever been. I`m going to offend a lot of groups although I don`t think I can be more offensive than John Mayer which is so out of left field to me, that like a white, blues guitar player is more offensive than I am. It`s a challenge to me frankly.
BEHAR: But he was just -- to me John Mayer was just --
GRIFFIN: He was just trying to be ironic.
BEHAR: Yes. And using the N word.
GRIFFIN: He should stick to the guitar.
BEHAR: Stick to the guitar. So stupid.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: How do you work shop material? I`m curious about that.
GRIFFIN: Well, you know I really change it up a lot because sometimes I get what I call gifts from Baby Jesus.
An example of that would be anxiety rehab. I`m very interested in anxiety rehab. I would like to go. I support it. I support rehab of any kind especially fake rehab. Which is what I could consider anxiety rehab to be.
Somebody goes hoo-hoo with the ha-ha and the hee-hee. I don`t know but this is a brand new thing -- anxiety rehab.
BEHAR: What does this have to do with working on material?
GRIFFIN: Because I`m saying this is something that people that come see me live will know like the Chynna Phillips story and they`ll know about the race -- what is it -- the homophobic slurs from the Jersey Shore guy? That was such a shock.
BEHAR: We`ll get to that in the next segment.
GRIFFIN: Really caught me off guard.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: I don`t mean to give away the store or create a situation.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: But yes. So, you know, I`m kind of always keeping up on this stuff. I am like the Rand Corporation but I have to watch the Bad Girls Club and Oprah and Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew and the Kardashians every day.
BEHAR: You`re going to have to really --
GRIFFIN: My serious work.
BEHAR: So you encompass every subject.
GRIFFIN: I`m like a theologian without the bible.
BEHAR: Your stuff is anecdotal. And I think that --
GRIFFIN: It is. It`s more story-oriented. I don`t really have like one liners -- I couldn`t really write a one-liner.
But it`s stories and it`s my celebrity run-ins and who knows what happened. Being in New York this week, this fashion week and all the fashionistas were freaking out because it was raining and ruining their looks.
BEHAR: Why do you think the gays love you so much? Is it because it`s celebrity driven?
GRIFFIN: I think it`s celebrity-driven and you know, I think it`s maybe part of feeling disenfranchised and I just always have hung out with gay guys.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: I was just that girl in school that went to the dance with the dude that was clearly, clearly gay. And I`m still friends with my friend from high school and his husband.
BEHAR: Ok. And you have a book signing?
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Plug that now and then we`ll talk about something else.
GRIFFIN: Great. I wrote a book, "Official Book Club Selection" and it went to number one on the New York Times list and I`m doing a signing tomorrow at Barnes & Noble on 5th.
BEHAR: Ok.
GRIFFIN: What`s great about these signings is they`re really different than doing the live show because I don`t know why, but the book is a completely different world so I already have one girl Twitter me on my Twitter although I don`t call it that. I have a different name for it.
BEHAR: Yes. What is it? Tell me when we come back.
I want to get your take on a certain Jersey Shore cast member`s homophobic rant next.
GRIFFIN: Ok.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED: In flip-flops. What is she (EXPLICATIVE DELETED) grow some hair you (EXPLICATIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was the brilliant "Jersey shores" Ronnie Magro caught in a homophobic rant while strolling the Jersey boardwalk. That clip was --
GRIFFIN: That wasn`t in Oxford?
BEHAR: No.
GRIFFIN: Oh.
BEHAR: That clip was leaked to TMZ but cut from the show.
GRIFFIN: Sorry.
BEHAR: I don`t know I`ve seen that show. They don`t hate gays. They hate prepositions. Okay, I`m back with Kathy Griffin.
GRIFFIN: Yes they hate grammar many times. Yes, I watch every episode yes. You got me.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Take me away in cuffs. "Jersey Shore."
BEHAR: You like it.
GRIFFIN: I can`t help it. It makes me feel superior. And I met Snooki or Snookster or -
BEHAR: Snooki -
GRIFFIN: Whatever.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And I complimented her on her bump-it. And she got a little --
BEHAR: What`s a bump-it?
GRIFFIN: It is a piece of plastic. And I have a few of those on my face but this is actually for your hair and then you comb your hair over it to make it look higher.
BEHAR: Oh yes, yes, yes.
GRIFFIN: But she was offended and said it`s not a bump-it. It`s a snooki.
BEHAR: Brilliant. The woman is brilliant. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: I know I know.
BEHAR: She`s like Golda Meir to me.
GRIFFIN: I know and it is a shock there`s a homophobic slur with these people? Come on it`s not that much of a shock.
BEHAR: Well it is kind of - you`d think they`d know better at this point, these jerks.
GRIFFIN: I know but -
BEHAR: They are coming on the view I have to sit there with them.
GRIFFIN: But they go to jail. That`s so funny, you know, on my little show I don`t to go jail. Although I would like to be arrested but my attorney say --
BEHAR: Why?
GRIFFIN: Because of publicity.
BEHAR: Material, material.
GRIFFIN: But then I didn`t know that there was actually a trial. So that kind of put me of it but you should know I dream of a celebrity mug shot.
BEHAR: I hear you. I can see --
GRIFFIN: Like a really nice lighting and hair, like Paris Hilton so nice lighting and hair and makeup and kind of coy looking. Like go ahead. Arrest me, officer.
BEHAR: Uh huh, yes. I can see why you want that.
GRIFFIN: I`ll take you to court. It`s kind of flirty.
BEHAR: You put that behind you onstage. You`d be fabulous.
GRIFFIN: Okay, I just don`t want the real trial part. I don`t have time. I`m busy.
BEHAR: No, you might go to jail.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: This "Jersey Shore" a lot of people say it`s against Italian Americans. You`re not an Italian American. So what do you think of it?
GRIFFIN: No, I think it`s fascinating. I don`t care what group they`re in. I don`t think oh this is what all Italian Americans are like.
BEHAR: Well you don`t think that but some people do.
GRIFFIN: I think they`re funny. Well okay but there is always going to be that one person who is obsessing about this group.
But I like to make fun of groups maybe more than individual people because groups seem to have less psychology. They seem to have less of a sense of humor even than individuals.
BEHAR: Groups do.
GRIFFIN: I enjoy making fun of religious groups in particular. They`re the most fun.
BEHAR: How much trouble do you get in for that?
GRIFFIN: Oh as much as I can, as much as I possibly can. Because they kick it.
BEHAR: Yes, I find that religious - sometimes religious people can be the most angry.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: And nasty.
GRIFFIN: And sell the most tickets.
BEHAR: And very self-righteous a lot of times.
GRIFFIN: Very self righteous and hypocritical. Yes.
BEHAR: Yes I know it`s not fun to talk to them. All right.
Let`s talk about baby factories the octomom Nadya -
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Suleman. She was on "The Jimmy Kimmel Show" to play the dating game. Let`s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST: When was the last time you went on a date?
NADYA SULEMAN: A little bit over ten years ago.
KIMMEL: It must very difficult to meet people, right, with like 90 kids or whatever you have.
SULEMAN: 93. Bachelor number two. Are you fertile as a turtle or limp as a chimp?
KIMMEL: Fertile as a turtle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What do you think of her?
GRIFFIN: Can I have a minute, I need a minute.
BEHAR: Take a minute.
GRIFFIN: It takes a lot by the way to get me here to this place I`m in right now but I`m there. Wow. Okay. So once again hold on. I used to be an atheist until that clip. Thank you Jesus because that is going to be great for the act. That is fantastic. You know the guys didn`t know that she was the contestant so they came on the show knowing it was some sort of celebrity dating game and each one of them were like hi, crazy. Hi, crazy pants. Hi, crazy vagina. And so her vagina seems nuts. Seems crazy. And yet I love to watch what comes out of it.
BEHAR: Oh she is just another -- more graffiti for your mill.
GRIFFIN: Oh she`s fantastic. Swearing she didn`t have any face work. And you know I`m an expert on what I call the dental work.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GRIFFIN: Because in Hollywood we call it dental work.
BEHAR: Oh yes, yes, yes.
GRIFFIN: I believe she has -- I am alleging that she has had a little dental work.
BEHAR: When does she have time or money to get plastic surgery when she`s got all these kids?
GRIFFIN: I don`t know. Maybe she`s next to Montag, Pratt, Spencer. Or whatever.
BEHAR: Heidi, Heidi Montag.
GRIFFIN: Heidi, yes.
BEHAR: Oh you must love her too.
GRIFFIN: I`m all over - first of all she should be on Discovery not MTV because she has had the first head transplant. And I`d like some kind of inside the ER, whatever those show should document it.
BEHAR: You know the octomom, we have a clip of the first date from TMZ. Want to see it?
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Okay let`s see it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED: What are you guys doing for Valentine`s?
UNIDENTIFIED: Lots of octopus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Whoa. Whoa. Wow, he went there, too.
BEHAR: But who would want to date a woman who -- a mother who has 14 children.
GRIFFIN: Well they didn`t know. I think these guys want to be on TV. But she will find love. Although she seems like an interesting combo of kind of crazy but not completely stupid. You know she doesn`t have the "Jersey Shore" with the bad grammar. It just seems like straight up crazy which has a it`s home, which has it`s place.
BEHAR: Yes, crazy. Do you think it`s possible for her to be a decent mother to these kids?
GRIFFIN: No, I don`t think it`s possible. I mean I`m not being mean. I don`t think it is possible.
BEHAR: Why not?
GRIFFIN: Because -
BEHAR: That other group, the Duggers have 18 children.
GRIFFIN: Okay they`re not vamps by the way.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: They`re very religious people. They`re very religious people.
GRIFFIN: Yes, right, whatever. You can`t possibly, look, I`m on a TV show. All right, it`s all consuming and I barely have time for my two dogs who will probably have their own spin-off but there is no way you can be doing a TV show and have those kids and be a good parent. Not having it. No.
BEHAR: No I mean one child takes care of the next one.
GRIFFIN : But why is it cute if the Duggers do it and then octom is crazy? They are just as crazy.
BEHAR: Well because -
GRIFFIN: I`m giving you the lips.
BEHAR: They get a pass because they have a mother and a father in the house.
GRIFFIN: Okay. So two crazies.
BEHAR: And then they say that you know, Jesus brought the babies so they get away with it because of that.
GRIFFIN: Oh don`t start with that, you know what, maybe she didn`t get it. I`m saying Jesus is a woman in your face, Behar.
BEHAR: Oh.
GRIFFIN: Yes, we`re going on the edge.
BEHAR: Whoa. Okay. We`re on the edge. Don`t start with the religious. I`m telling you. They`ll turn on me and you.
GRIFFIN: I know but I like the picketing at my shows.
BEHAR: And you. The Heidi Montag when she was on the red carpet this weekend, she dropped this little pearl of wisdom on radar online.
GRIFFIN: Okay.
BEHAR: Go look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEIDI MONTAG, ACTRESS: I would like to get my breasts redone because I didn`t get them the size I wanted because they couldn`t fit so that`s it. It`s who you are on the inside that really matters and this is just a shell at the end of the day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She is talking about the inner beauty but she`s completely changed the outside of herself.
GRIFFIN: When you can`t even say a contraction properly, the red flag is saying couldn`t? When I couldn`t get - couldn`t.
BEHAR: Couldn`t.
GRIFFIN: You can`t say contractions you moron. All right it must be like you -
BEHAR: Couldn`t wouldn`t.
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: And the old one can`t either. Or conjugated verb. I mean it`s -- I can`t believe she`s admitting they`re not big enough to her and yet the clothing didn`t fit. It`s ridiculous. And even the rapist husband allegedly, he reminds me of a date rapist. I`m not saying he is. But he looks a little date rapist --
BEHAR: Who?
GRIFFIN: The husband. Little better --
BEHAR: Spidey? Spencer? He looks like a date rapist?
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BEHAR: He seems like some innocuous little thing to me, to me nothing.
GRIFFIN: Little date rapist -- if I was going to go on a date and be afraid to be raped that is who it would be with.
BEHAR: Really.
GRIFFIN: A little date raping.
BEHAR: She got ten surgeries. Now you know something about that.
GRIFFIN: I know about the dental work.
BEHAR: She got the dental work - the dental work, ten surgeries in one day.
GRIFFIN: Right. It`s too much. And by the way, I would tell you and in my book I swear to god I have the most heinous post op plastic surgery photos. You have to get the book just for that.
BEHAR: I do, I want to see that.
GRIFFIN: Because they`re horrible, it is horrible and painful and disgusting.
BEHAR: You tell the truth about it.
GRIFFIN: Yes and these women who say oh it is like getting a hair cut are full of it.
BEHAR: Why, what`s the first part of it?
GRIFFIN: First of all it`s disgusting. Okay, when you get lipo, you love this part.
BEHAR: I do.
GRIFFIN: I know, when you get lipo you have to wear this like girdle with a hole that you pee through. I`m not kidding. It is so barbaric. And they take a big knitting needle and they stick it in you.
BEHAR: Yes. Disgusting.
GRIFFIN: And you ooze and it is disgusting, and debasting, and horrible.
BEHAR: But you did it all and you would do it again wouldn`t you?
GRIFFIN: Yes, I did it all. I haven`t - I don`t know about that.
BEHAR: Really.
GRIFFIN: I -
BEHAR: Why not just go on a diet, exercise a little?
GRIFFIN: That`s what I did.
BEHAR: Get a little Botox like I do. I always say that. But I`m afraid of knives. I wouldn`t do a knife.
GRIFFIN: I don`t know if I`m going to do it again actually. I`m just afraid to say it on this show because A.J. Hammer is going to put it on the news ticker.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
GRIFFIN: That show scares me with him and Brooke Anderson. The Ticker.
BEHAR: I know that show is wacky. A wacky show.
GRIFFIN: A showbiz shocker. Now Marie Osmond is crying in soft lens.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now she says that Heidi that she is going to do "Playboy" for the second time.
GRIFFIN: I love when they say it`s an honor and my parents are so proud. My whole life, this is what I love. Ever since I was a little girl my daddy always wanted me to be in "Playboy." uh-oh. Red flag. No it is not an honor.
BEHAR: What did you think of Senator Scott Brown from Massachusetts? Who said my daughter, I have a daughter on this night.
GRIFFIN: Crimping out the daughter. I was so happy to have a show in Rochester that night. I can`t even tell you.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: I was hours from the stage.
BEHAR: It`s a gift. GRIFFIN: It`s a fantastic gift with a bow on it. It`s great. And then when you made it worse by saying, no, what I meant this one is single. I mean pimping out the daughters? It was great. He is the new face of the Republican Party.
BEHAR: I guess he`s going to be called pimp daddy now.
GRIFFIN: He should. And pimp mama Palin.
BEHAR: Oh do you - oh let me get -- do a couple Facebook questions before we go.
GRIFFIN: Okay.
BEHAR: Okay these are good. First of all this one is a little weird. Aren`t you afraid that you`ll die alone and lonely because you have alienated everyone who matters? That was from your mother.
GRIFFIN: Actually - I know. Thanks mom, my mom loves the show by the way. Never misses it.
BEHAR: Your D-List?
GRIFFIN: No, no, your show.
BEHAR: Oh, my show?
GRIFFIN: This is one of the few shows that I would be on that wouldn`t embarrass her. Because most of everything I do embarrasses her. But she --
BEHAR: Why? Your D-List show is really funny.
GRIFFIN: Well she thinks that I go too far on the D-List show.
BEHAR: Uh huh but not on this one?
GRIFFIN: No. She likes this show and then "Judge Judy" and that`s it. She oddly likes "The Kardashians."
BEHAR: "The Kardashians" can be fun, I don`t know.
GRIFFIN: But she`s 89 what do they have for her?
BEHAR: What makes Kathy blush before we go?
GRIFFIN: Well not blush but sometimes the stupidity that you see like from the Spideys -
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: And when they talk about you know her boobs wanting to be even bigger, it doesn`t make me -- a lot of things make me cringe.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRIFFIN: You know a lot of these shows I watch them and it`s a guilty pleasure but I cringe.
BEHAR: Okay here`s your last one, did you ever have sex with Sarah Silverman?
GRIFFIN: Yes, many times. And sometimes she`d be the top and then I`d be the top and -
BEHAR: Was it more fun than that Mariska Hargitay?
GRIFFIN: That is a horse race. Because we get -
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: Come to the show. So straight guys come to the show. Yes, girl on girl action. Woo.
BEHAR: Thank you, Kathy very much for stopping by. Catch Kathy performing at Madison Square Garden February 19, and 20. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: He`s on award winning playwright who has garnered as much attention for his work outside the theater as he has for plays like "The Normal Heart" and "The Destiny of Me". He co-founded the gay men`s health crisis and founded the AIDS organization Act Up. Making plenty of enemies along the way.
He is currently working on a new book "The American People," a massive undertaking about the country`s gay ancestors. Which is sure to stir up more trouble. Larry Kramer, thank you for coming to the show, Larry. I haven`t seen you in years and it`s good to see you again.
LARRY KRAMER, AUTHOR: You look gorgeous.
BEHAR: You look very good. I mean when I saw you in the early `90s, did not look as promising.
KRAMER: No.
BEHAR: The aids crisis was in full bloom still and you were HIV then and you`re here. I don`t think you thought you would be here today.
KRAMER: I`ve been exceedingly lucky. I was near death a couple of times, I was able to get a liver transplant and that`s kept me alive and that`s what basically, mostly from hepatitis b actually.
BEHAR: Uh huh, now you`ve been working on this book, "The American People" since 1978. And I understand it`s 4,000 pages tome?
KRAMER: That it is, and it`s just been sold to Ferris Fellows too.
BEHAR: It`s a sort of a gay history of the United States, yes?
KRAMER: It`s a history of America putting gay people back in from the get-go. Because we`ve have been here since the beginning and no history book ever says that. So just like the monkeys in the jungle, what goes on. I`m not allowed to tell you too much, but I will tell you what the "New York" magazine said, basically that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln were both major gays then. George was a major queen.
BEHAR: George Washington?
KRAMER: Big queen.
BEHAR: Who was his trick?
KRAMER: Alexander Hamilton.
BEHAR: Alexander Hamilton.
KRAMER: Back Murphy de Lafayette.
BEHAR: Another one, O`Lafayette, well, that I can believe, he`s French.
KRAMER: You said it, I didn`t.
BEHAR: But I mean where do you get this information, that George Washington and Alexander Hamilton were gay? I`m curious where did you find that?
KRAMER: You have to read my book.
BEHAR: But I mean is it based on any facts? Or I mean --
KRAMER: No, I made it up out of hook law.
BEHAR: I know you wouldn`t do that because you`re too smart for that. So I want to know where you found this.
KRAMER: You have to read my book.
BEHAR: Is it in the letters? Because Lincolns we know, he was sleeping in the same bed with this person for a while but they did that in those days.
KRAMER: They didn`t do that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and he did it with a man who was rich. So it wasn`t as if -
BEHAR: Lincoln.
KRAMER: So it wasn`t as if they couldn`t afford another bed.
BEHAR: Well that`s interesting, see that`s a little factoid I never heard before.
KRAMER: And Joshua Speed was a friend, a son of a very rich Kentucky, Louisville family.
BEHAR: And yet they were sleeping in the same bed together?
KRAMER: For years, every night.
BEHAR: Well excuse me.
KRAMER: And the bed was not very wide.
BEHAR: And where was Mary Todd at that point?
KRAMER: She wasn`t there yet.
BEHAR: She wasn`t in the picture yet?
KRAMER: No, no.
BEHAR: So do you think he got married, Lincoln, in order to do like you know the politically smart thing so that he could be president?
KRAMER: He was terrified about getting married. That we know. The letters between the two, both men were terrified of getting married and they wrote letters about it.
BEHAR: Now you said also that the biggest achievement by gays in history is HIV AIDS treatment.
KRAMER: Those meds would not be out there but for Act Up.
BEHAR: Exactly I believe you are true, you`re right about that, that`s true. But the biggest achievement, I mean gays have had tremendous achievements throughout history. And I would just hit on you know --
KRAMER: I`m talking about --
BEHAR: Oh you`re just talking about in medicine?
KRAMER: No, I`m talking about as a population. We united as much as we could. And we fought. A lot of guys who were dying fought for six, seven, eight years. We did everything. Chained ourselves to everybody and everything. We got inside the system. We changed the law.
BEHAR: Yes.
KRAMER: We got those meds developed. We made the drug companies to give them to us and they are there for all the world because of Act Up. AIDS Coalition -
BEHAR: Righteous anger. Righteous --
KRAMER: People fear. Fear of dying.
BEHAR: Well people have -
KRAMER: Why aren`t people angry now? I don`t understand that.
BEHAR: What should they be angry about now? Tell me.
KRAMER: What are kidding? We got a terrible president.
BEHAR: Oh, Obama, you don`t like him?
KRAMER: I don`t. I don`t.
BEHAR: You like - oh you liked Bush, was he better?
KRAMER: No, why are you playing hard? Why are you doing this to me?
(LAUGHTER)
KRAMER: I don`t think this man has a heart. I just --
BEHAR: Obama?
KRAMER: I do not think he is a compassionate man. There are something like 20 million people in this country out of work or below the poverty line, or on food stamps or going hungry.
BEHAR: Yes.
KRAMER: And I don`t feel him caring. I don`t feel that.
BEHAR: Well what should he do?
KRAMER: How can so many people be out of work?
BEHAR: I think he realizes what`s going on. And it appears that he`s trying to fix it but--
KRAMER: I don`t think he does. He`s got this little creep Rahm Emanuel. I mean he`s like a hustler like a used car salesman. Would you buy a car from Rahm Emanuel? I wouldn`t.
BEHAR: Not a Toyota, I`ll tell you that much.
(LAUGHTER)
KRAMER: I tell you, I have this theory, Obama has been simply terrible on gay things, joins a long big crowd on that score, on that presidential score.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
KRAMER: And I think it`s because of Rahm Emanuel for many, many years studied ballet, I don`t know if you knew this. And I have this theory --
BEHAR: Who did?
KRAMER: Rahm, many years.
BEHAR: That`s scary.
KRAMER: And I have this theory --
BEHAR: Rahm Emanuel in a tutu -- that gives me a headache.
KRAMER: Well, I have this theory that straight men who were very serious in the ballet -
BEHAR: Yes.
KRAMER: Hate gays because everybody thought they were gay.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
KRAMER: And he takes it out on us.
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know about that. I mean Baryshnikov, he`s straight, I`ve never heard him think -- say anything against gays. And Albert Velala (ph)--
KRAMER: Because he has got a healthy attitude about us. I don`t think Rahm --
BEHAR: Now what about the policies of "don`t ask, don`t tell", do you have any interest in talking about that?
KRAMER: It`s a tired subject, it`s going to happen.
BEHAR: It`s a tired subject? Well do you think it should have been, you know, in the book for a long time now? It`s kind of overdue isn`t it?
KRAMER: Oh it`s awful but it`s about to change and let`s talk about getting the marriage case to the Supreme Court. Because that`s the - -
BEHAR: Okay what about the gay marriage thing, do you -- you`re not interested in getting married are you, Larry?
KRAMER: Yes, when we get the rights out of the United States government. The marriage thing as it stands now you don`t get anything except a piece of paper. There over 1,000 benefits that are worth money -
BEHAR: Yes.
KRAMER: That straight people get when they marry.
BEHAR: Uh huh, yes.
KRAMER: That we can`t get. And it starts with, you know - leaving your estate to your partner. They take most of all of it in taxes.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
KRAMER: Where if I were married, like you, that wouldn`t happen.
BEHAR: I`m not married -
KRAMER: Well you know what I mean.
BEHAR: But I could get married, well that`s the difference. I could get married and the whole country, not just in one state.
KRAMER: Right.
BEHAR: But New York State, it`s interesting isn`t it that New York State and California two of the so-called liberal states don`t have it but Iowa does.
KRAMER: Yes well look at who we got as a governor.
BEHAR: It is fascinating, don`t go anywhere. We`ll have more with Larry Kramer in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Back with me is author and gay activist Larry Kramer. You know Larry, the gay scene has changed since the `80s. I mean these young kids, gay kids, they don`t sort of go to the segregated gay clubs anymore. It`s all mixed up, gays and straights. And they are on the internet now meeting people. And I wonder if the gay community now, the younger ones are like young girls who don`t really understand what feminists did, you know, in the `70s and sort of take it all for granted. Do you see that in the gay community now?
KRAMER: It`s the gay population, I don`t like to call it a community.
BEHAR: All right. The gay population.
KRAMER: There are too many of us.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
KRAMER: They are very passive. I think the internet has not helped activism?
BEHAR: The internet does not help?
KRAMER: No because activism works when people get together in a room and work off of each other`s energy. And that seems to get disappeared in the internet. Even though a lot of them are conversing with each other.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
KRAMER: I would go around to schools a lot and I see kids and they say we know we`re plastic. We know that - how do we - when know we`re not as angry as you want us to be. And what I -- activism does not work unless you are afraid. It just doesn`t.
BEHAR: Well do you think that --
KRAMER: And that`s why I keep saying, president -
BEHAR: Yes.
KRAMER: After president has dumped on us and this man is dumping on us just like all the others. And I don`t see anybody objecting to him, you know.
BEHAR: People are upset with him in certain ways but I guess this is a separate issue you`re talking about here. But I mean do you think that young people are engaging in risky sexual behavior again? Do we have to worry about that now or do you think they have learned their lesson?
KRAMER: No people are going to practice risky behavior until the end of time. People have sex. Some will do it all right, some will protect themselves. So we just have to -- that`s why we have drugs and that`s why you hope for the best. But you can`t expect it not to happen.
BEHAR: Well this complacency you`re objecting to --
KRAMER: Well no I don`t think it`s so much about the sex -
BEHAR: No.
KRAMER: I think it`s about everybody thinks everything is more or less okay when in fact it isn`t.
BEHAR: So what should people do?
KRAMER: People should have a mouth like you and me. Get angry. You get angry.
BEHAR: You do.
KRAMER: You find to get your message out.
BEHAR: Yes.
KRAMER: Find a way to get your message out. It`s not on Twitter either.
BEHAR: Well you the tea party movement is organized in many ways. Even though it`s not that big of a movement, people are out there -
KRAMER: Yes.
BEHAR: What started that that you think maybe --
KRAMER: Well because people or a lot of people are angry at Obama and we should have our own tea party not that I want to be a part of that, but I mean we should. I mean Sarah Palin is just one of the greatest bad jokes in history. And why anybody takes her seriously just blows the mind.
BEHAR: Well I mean they took Ronald Reagan seriously. They took George Bush the second seriously.
KRAMER: Yes but Ronald Reagan had a powerhouse of zillions of dollars behind of us. She got that kind of money behind her? I guess she does.
BEHAR: No but she that base rallied. And they like that in the Republican Party. They have to pay attention to her because of that, don`t they?
KRAMER: Well they haven`t got anything else to pay attention to.
BEHAR: That`s the problem. Thank you Larry for coming. As always -
KRAMER: It`s over?
BEHAR: It`s over.
KRAMER: I want another segment.
BEHAR: Just like that - he wants another segment.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Thank you for watching, everybody. Good night. Get out there and fight it. Fight the good fight.
END
