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Joy Behar Page
Tiger Apologizes; Fixing the GOP
Aired February 22, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Tiger Woods stages a public apology and says he plans to revive his marriage. Good luck with that. Personally, I think you`ve got a better chance of reviving Boris Yeltsin.
Then officials in Vancouver have circulated 100,000 condoms in the Olympic village which works out to 14 per person. Is there a new Olympic sport I haven`t heard about like cross-country shtooping?
And Reverend Ted Haggard says spending 21 days with church pastors helped turn him straight. My question, how homely were these pastors? All that and more right now.
Tiger Woods delivered a speech on Friday that was cold, calculated and heartless. No, that was Republican Tim Pawlenty speaking about compassionate conservatism. My bad.
Actually, Tiger apologized to a room of close friends, invited press and, of course, took no questions. Did it work? Did Tiger win over America?
Here now to discuss are syndicated radio and talk show host and columnist for the "Philadelphia Inquirer", the fabulous Stephen A. Smith; television personality and former sportscaster extraordinaire, Pat O`Brien; and extremely smart psychotherapist Dr. Gilda Carle.
Ok. Let`s start with a look at a clip from Tiger`s speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIGER WOODS, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: Every one of you has good reason to be critical of me. I want to say to each of you simply and directly, I am deeply sorry for my irresponsible and selfish behavior I engaged in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Stephen, let me start with you. Are we buying this apology? Do you think he was sincere?
STEPHEN A. SMITH, SYNDICATED RADIO AND TALK SHOW HOST: Well, most, according to polls, enough Americans do buy it. I`m certainly not one of those people. I`m in the minority in that regard. I think it was an absolute disaster. I`ve been on the record for saying that.
Certainly the words that he elocuted (ph) was correct. He needed to apologize to his family, friends, loved ones, the people he embarrassed. But at the same time, his delivery, his presentation came across as very fake, very phony, very disingenuous to say the least. And that`s the position that I maintain even after I`ve gotten a chance to sit on that for the weekend.
BEHAR: Ok. Pat, you agree?
PAT O`BRIEN, FORMER SPORTSCASTER: No. And I love Stephen A. Smith, we`re good friends. But, you know, the level of hypocrisy in this thing has been astounding, maybe not surprising. Everybody, including me, everybody wanted him to come forward, let`s see your face, look into the camera, talk. And then he does this, literally stops the country, stops the stock market, stops CNN, HLN, ESPN, stops everything.
Yes.
O`BRIEN: And then afterwards everybody said "Oh, no, he`s a phony, didn`t look right."
If you read his words, Stephen A., his words were great. You know, I`ve been in recovery. I know what this is like. He is taking the correct steps to improve his life. His words are sensational.
I heard the best thing this morning from Collin Cower (ph) on ESPN. He said most reporters treated Tiger like a god for 13 years. Then when he acted like a god, they`re angry with him, you know?
BEHAR: What do you mean a god? A god that was having sex with 14 women; what kind of god was that?
O`BRIEN: I`m talking about everybody was afraid to confront the guy. Most of these people that criticized him would, you know, wet their pants if they were to stand in front of the guy, you know?
SMITH: Pat, you have known me for years and you know I`m not one of those people. That`s number one. Let`s get that straight.
O`BRIEN: I`m not putting you in that.
SMITH: Number two, I certainly agreed with you about his words and how they were the appropriate words. But the issue at hand is his presentation which was god-awful, not to mention the fact that you can`t ignore how awful his presentation was and how it was necessary because he tried to manipulate the masses by telling some cockamamie story to get this whole dig started, not to mention all the mistresses that kept coming out week after week after week.
BEHAR: All right.
SMITH: This was not something that was perpetuated by the media. It was perpetuated by those mistresses.
BEHAR: Ok. Hold on, let me get a shrink in here, ok.
O`BRIEN: Joy, I thought you were the shrink, Joy.
BEHAR: Only on television. She does it for a living.
What do you think Gilda?
GILDA CARLE, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I think he was very broken up. But because he lost all of his endorsements, he is a broken man now. He has been caught. And all these mistresses have been coming out of the woodwork. And I wasn`t one of these fans who thought he was a god. And a god always looks bigger from below.
But when you see the person in reality and you see him for what he is, then you have to look at him as a human being. And you know, recovery is a very long process.
And Pat is absolutely right. Just because you have a bout of therapy does not a reformed person make.
BEHAR: Well, that`s true. We`ll have that talk about that, too; about how many months or years does he have to spend. But I want to look at another clip where Tiger talks about a sense of entitlement. Let`s look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOODS: I knew my actions were wrong. But I convinced myself that normal rules didn`t apply. I thought I could get away with whatever I wanted to. I felt that I had worked hard my entire life and deserved to enjoy all the temptations around me. I felt I was entitled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He`s worked hard all his life. He`s only 30 something years old. Give me a break.
Stephen, don`t a lot of professional athletes have that sense of entitlement? Not just athletes, politicians, too.
SMITH: Absolutely. But I`ve got news for you. It`s not their fault that they are that way. It`s the people that insulate them. You`ve got all of these companies, all of these corporations, that they are making money for. And as a result of that, there`s layers and layers of protection which makes them feel invincible because you have to get through those layers in order to get to them. And they`re the ones in front of your face saying we`ve got your back. We`ll cover you.
BEHAR: Right.
SMITH: Don`t worry about anything. We`ll do anything that you need done because you make money for us. You`re the golden boy.
So I don`t blame Tiger Woods for that. I don`t blame any of these professional athletes for that. I do blame the politicians, however, because they`re elected officials asking to represent other people but not the athletes.
BEHAR: Ok. Stephen, we`ll be back in 60 seconds with more on this. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOODS: It`s hard to admit that I need help. But I do. For 45 days from the end of December to early February, I was in in-patient therapy receiving guidance for the issues I`m facing. I have a long way to go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a look at Tiger Woods admitting to the world that he cheated and is in therapy. His wife, Elin, has a really tough choice to make, either stay with her husband and try to save their marriage or torture him on a daily basis. I vote for torture.
My panel is still with me. And we are talking about Tiger Woods` apology. Gilda, can this guy be reformed, and should Elin have stood by his side?
CARLE: Look who you`re asking. You`re asking a therapist. Of course he can be reformed but he has to want to be reformed. He has to have the support system. He has to want to put in the time, the effort, and he has to have people around him who believe that he can make changes.
BEHAR: What about all the women that we were talking before?
Stephen, you were talking before that you don`t blame him because he`s an athlete and it comes to him. What about the women who throw themselves at athletes on the road?
SMITH: Well, I have no sympathy for them especially the ones that throw out these crocodile tears acting like they`re the victim when they knew that he was a married man. They had no respect or consideration for Elin, his wife, whatsoever. They didn`t imagine themselves being in that position and how they would feel.
So I don`t want to hear anything about any sympathy for them. Piggybacking to your point about the sexual addiction and how he`s going to overcome that, you know what? You can overcome a lot of things because guess what? You don`t want to have an addiction to alcohol. You don`t want to have an addiction to drugs.
Sex, I haven`t heard any complain about that. It`s a bit different, you know?
BEHAR: Don`t you love how these mistresses want an apology? I mean they should be apologizing for their skank behavior to the wife.
CARLE: Excuse me? They wanted an apology because he didn`t marry them.
BEHAR: Right.
CARLE: Oh. What are you talking about? And who is defending them?
SMITH: By the way, that`s not entirely accurate. It`s not that he wouldn`t marry them. They just wanted to be treated like that. They didn`t necessarily want the marriage, they wanted to be treated like they were the one.
CARLE: Treated like a mistress, treated like something better than a mistress.
SMITH: They wanted the perks. That`s all I mean.
BEHAR: Well, they wanted to be the only one.
CARLE: They had the perks.
BEHAR: They were very upset that he had other mistresses.
CARLE: Yes, for sure. It`s one thing to be cheating on your wife but if you`re cheating on your mistress?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLE: Excuse me, all of the others.
SMITH: Joy?
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: "The View" should pick up on this subject because I`ve said this to you before and I`m going to tell it to you again. You`ve got a lot of mistresses out there that literally act like they`re the wife. Like, "Oh, my God. There`s another mistress than me?
BEHAR: I know?
CARLE: Yes.
SMITH: It`s unbelievable. That`s a subject you all don`t talk about this Oprahfied world we live in. I just want to sort that out.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Good.
Pat, let me ask you one more question before we go. Any predictions about, you know, when we`ll see Tiger in public again?
PAT O`BRIEN, FORMER SPORTSCASTER: Well, you may see him in public on TMZ or something. But -- no, I think he`s -- I think he`s done for golf for a year. Golf is a mind game and Stephen will agree with me on this. It`s a mind game. It`s hard for him to come back.
SMITH: He`s got to come back.
O`BRIEN: But he`s got to come back. We know that but don`t know if he can.
SMITH: Soon.
O`BRIEN: You know and he`s done the right --
BEHAR: The game of golf needs him. Because he`s --
SMITH: No, it`s not that. It`s not that.
BEHAR: What?
SMITH: He`s got to come back because the other option is to be around Elin more. How could you deal with that?
CARLE: Right --
BEHAR: That`s true.
SMITH: You can`t do that. He`s got to come back.
CARLE: Elin has a lot of problems to deal with now because a lot of the -- a lot of the wives of these cheating men now have to re-establish themselves as people as apart from the men that they were involved with. How do you establish your own identity --
SMITH: Oh please.
CARLE: -- or re-establish an identity?
O`BRIEN: Joy.
CARLE: No, no.
BEHAR: Let the men have the last word and then we`re going to go to go. Go ahead. Who wants -- go ahead.
O`BRIEN: Joy, don`t overlook all the men that throw themselves at the ladies of "The View", too.
BEHAR: Well, that`s a --
SMITH: Well, I wasn`t going to bring that up.
BEHAR: That`s a whole other topic. I take the fifth.
CARLE: Yes for that ok.
BEHAR: Ok, thanks.
SMITH: I wasn`t going to bring that up.
BEHAR: Thank you, everybody.
Up next, Donny Deutsche joins me to discuss how the Tiger can fix his brand. Don`t go anywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOODS: To those of you who work for me, I have let you down personally and professionally. My behavior has caused considerable worry to my business partners. For all that I have done, I am so sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Tiger Woods had a lot of people to apologize to at Friday`s press conference. But he saved his most sincere, most heartfelt words for the ones who matter most, his sponsors.
So are apologies enough and can Tiger restore the brand that made him richer than the Olsen twins? With me now is Donny Deutsch, Chairman of Deutsche Incorporated. Hey, Donny.
DONNY DEUTSCH, CHAIRMAN, DEUTSH INCORPORATED: Hello, darling.
BEHAR: So -- do you think his -- that`s all about apologizing to the sponsors.
DEUTSCH: Actually all of the above.
BEHAR: Do you think he did enough?
DEUTSCH: I actually think personal on a personal level, I saw a guy that was genuinely sorry and broken. Now it was -- whether he`s got caught or whatever, that was a guy whose life had truly been dragged down. So I felt the genuineness there personally.
BEHAR: But was he sorry that he got caught or was he sorry that he did what he did?
DEUTSCH: Probably both to be honest with you. The reality is so -- to his wife, that`s between he and his wife. As far as his sponsors --
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: He is so more than fine for -- here are the reasons. Number one, Nike and Electronic Arts which were 70 percent of his revenue I believe --
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: Haven`t gone anywhere.
BEHAR: No.
DEUTSCH: Male products, they`re not going anywhere. He didn`t kill anybody. You know, we`ve got to stop being so puritanical and acting shocked when athletes and world leaders are also womanizers. And am I the only one not shocked by this?
BEHAR: No, no one`s shocked.
DEUTSCH: But I mean, why is Nike is going to -- is one man going to not buy a golf club because he was shtooping some women on the road, seriously?
BEHAR: No probably not.
DEUTSCH: And I mean, is this one --
BEHAR: What about Gatorade, Gillette --
DEUTSCH: Ok. Joy --
BEHAR: They`re all standing by him. Why?
DEUTSCH: -- once - because they are male oriented products, they`re- he`s a great -- he still sells three times more as far as his revenue than the next best athlete.
And I`m going to go one step further. I actually think when this is done he`s going to be even more remarkable because now he`s a human being. You know, he`s a guy next door, he got caught, he got busted. The one thing he didn`t have was there was nothing beyond this. He was so two- dimensional, now he`s got blood in him.
So will he be for everyone as a sponsor? No. If you`re a mass product that has a big female constituency, probably not. But for a beer, for an insurance company --
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: -- for a -- he will be -- I predict bigger than ever.
BEHAR: So Midol is out?
DEUTSCH: Midol is probably out, although they have been knocking on my door. So I mean, you know, I`ll probably take an announcement here -- I`ll be the new spokesperson for Midol. I`m so happy for you ladies out there.
BEHAR: How much of a financial blow is he going to take?
DEUTSCH: None.
BEHAR: None.
DEUTSCH: You know, basically, out of $100 million, it looks like $30 million have gone away. It will more than come back, he will and we`ll be sitting here a year from now he will not have lost a dollar, ok? It`s that simple.
BEHAR: Really?
DEUTSCH: I really believe that.
BEHAR: So he --
DEUTSCH: And I`m not just saying that to be provocative. It`s the truth. It`s like -- it`s just -- it`s simple marketing. We`ve got to stop connect -- we`ve got to stop connecting dots between -- but do you think Simon Cowell can sell a product? I do. He sells probably the most popular TV show on the air. Does that mean he`s likeable to everyone? He`s very unlikable.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: So there`s a difference between being just likeable versus over being able to sell something. He`s the best golfer of all time. That sells stuff. It`s very simple.
BEHAR: I guess.
DEUTSCH: Yes.
BEHAR: I guess, but I think you`re probably right. But, I mean, he does have an image now. And he talks about being a role model to kids and all of that stuff. Should he now change the image and sort of embrace the bad boy image?
DEUTSCH: You know what`s interesting, he never -- if you look at all his advertising, none of it was family guy. It was just very kind of like -- you didn`t see much behind it. It was very sterile and whatnot. But he never did ads, "here`s my wife, here`s my kids". So one could argue I don`t think --
BEHAR: He didn`t do the fuzzy.
DEUTSCH: He didn`t do the fuzzy.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: He just did the kind of straight on. Now, you could give an argument that if his wife ever left him --
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: -- then you go and you know what? He`d just become Derek Jeter. You know a little bit of a bad boy. Play that up, it`s ok, who cares? So if he stays married, he can`t do bad boy stuff.
BEHAR: Right.
DEUTSCH: But he will certainly get more sponsors, particularly these stuff winning golf tournaments. You know more than anybody, the sexiest story in the world has taken somebody down, the next sexiest story is bringing him back up.
BEHAR: That`s true.
Ok, while Tiger tries to repair the brand. The GOP might want to think about what`s going on with theirs. The Republican Party`s policies came under scrutiny at the CPAC Conference this week as speakers like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck, spoke -- I like to call them, Huey, Dewey and Screwy.
Now --
DEUTSCH: You`re very -- when you go up against Republicans, you`re very attractive, by the way.
BEHAR: Do I really?
DEUTSCH: I just get my little --
BEHAR: Am I turning you on?
DEUTSCH: I was getting -- when you`re going after those bad boys I was getting a little --
BEHAR: How about when I say Dick Cheney?
DEUTSCH: Does anybody have a Rob Roy or something?
BEHAR: Ok, now let`s say the GOP --
DEUTSCH: Doesn`t he look like a Bond villain Dick Cheney by the way? If you were going to cast a Bond movie --
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: -- would he be, Mr. Bond, we`ve been expecting you. Petting a cat.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, petting a rat.
DEUTSCH: A rat, yes a big raccoon or something, you know. I love this show, I love doing this show.
BEHAR: You love my show? It`s a lot of fun.
DEUTSCH: I love you-- this is just -- I`ve come alive here. I`m just -- I just need a cocktail. That`s all I want. I don`t know why. I just want a cocktail. Go ahead.
BEHAR: Now, the GOP, let`s talk about the Republican Party.
DEUTSCH: Yes.
BEHAR: They`re becoming -- you`re a brander.
DEUTSCH: Yes, I am.
BEHAR: And you know about that.
DEUTSCH: Yes, I am.
BEHAR: They are the party of no.
DEUTSCH: Yes.
BEHAR: And that`s not a good thing.
DEUTSCH: It`s not a good thing. But what they figured out finally, unfortunately, in the last six weeks --
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: -- if you think about Brown winning, if you think about in Virginia where they won, if you think about this guy Rubio they`re pushing in Florida, they`re understanding that just this vitriolic, we hate Obama, the world is bad, the Sarah Palins of the world, the Dick Cheneys of the world, the Rush Limbaughs, is unelectable.
Let`s put forward a fiscal conservative, socially -- what appears to be socially -- moderate in terms of whatnot and not going, that`s the electable candidate. So they`re getting it. There`s a difference --
BEHAR: Who is that person?
DEUTSCH: It`s basically it`s a Scott Brown. And once again, it`s amazing, they`re talking about him as presidential timber. The guy has never done anything in his whole life. But that`s the whole thing. It`s a blank piece of paper that people can assign things to.
One of the reasons interestingly enough, I think were a society of no right now, one of the reasons Obama got elected, is because he was a blank page. You could assign hope to him.
BEHAR: That`s true.
DEUTSCH: it was such a media frenzy, 24/7 world that almost anybody that`s been around too long is so much no attached to it, that you almost need that blank piece of paper. That`s the new model.
BEHAR: Yes.
DEUTSCH: Like this coconut Rubio down in Florida.
BEHAR: What`s his name, I don`t know them.
DEUTSCH: Marco Rubio --
BEHAR: Oh Rubio.
DEUTSCH: He`s running against Charlie Crist who`s -- I think done a great job and he`s the new great -- you know hope down there.
BEHAR: So basically, these people of the TEA party is basically angry with the right and the left for the same reason, that there`s fiscal irresponsibility?
DEUTSCH: No, they`re angry -- they`re basically -- their argument is -- and I think there`s a lot of racism underneath it -- he, they, are taking your country away from you; they`re taking the civil liberties away. They`re stomping on the Constitution. They`re telling us how many bullets we can have in our guns.
And we all know as far as putting up the deficit, we know what Bush ran up all the while.
BEHAR: Yes, he`s the one who really messed up.
DEUTSCH: And here`s the other thing I say we have a Rubik`s Cube. You want to cure the deficit? Wait a second, I thought it`s jobs, I thought it`s unemployment. So basically you want to cut back spending right now? Do you want to cut back the stimulus? Do you want to cut back taxes? We`ll go into a complete freefall.
BEHAR: Exactly.
DEUTSCH: So the game is jobs right now. Not deficit.
BEHAR: All right, Donny, don`t go anyplace.
DEUTSCH: I`m not. I`m staying until tomorrow.
BEHAR: Not really. I want your take on Obama`s health care pitch when we come back. I don`t have any booze but maybe a bed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: President Obama unveiled his new compromise health care plan today giving some people hope that we may actually have reform in our lifetime. Ok. Donny, how can the president make his health care reform go more smoothly than last time? He sort of screwed up the message.
DEUTSCH: Well, the message was, instead of unfortunately, his message was 30 million uninsured Americans need health care. That`s very noble. But when people are out of work, they don`t care about that. The message should have been one of the ways to fix the economy and save you money is fixing the health care. Unfortunately, we all know the moral imperatives, the real reason, the way to sell was dollars and cents. So he missed that --
BEHAR: And he didn`t do that.
DEUTSCH: Not effectively.
BEHAR: What should he do now?
DEUTSCH: Well, what he`s doing -- a lot of people are saying he`s doing what he should do. He`s tucking the football under his arm as opposed to hey, you guys all figure it out. Why he didn`t do that initially, that`s what Clinton did in the `90s and it failed. Here`s what it is. He shoved it through.
BEHAR: Why didn`t he learn from Clinton`s mistakes?
DEUTSCH: He did learn. And what Clinton did do was he didn`t say you guys figure it out. Clinton said, "Here it is, signed, sealed and delivered," and it got knocked back.
BEHAR: Because he gave the chore to Ira (INAUDIBLE) -- remember that guy -- Hillary Clinton. And the country turned on him for that.
DEUTSCH: The reality is unfortunately health care, which is one of those things we need to solve but for most Americans selfishly have to solve tomorrow, it`s a tough sell.
BEHAR: It`s a very tough sell.
DEUTSCH: The mistake is initially -- I agree where his heart is, but in reality the right strategic sell initially was jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs and make health care a subset of this.
BEHAR: So as a brander, as an image creator, how would you tell Obama to change his image now? What should he do?
DEUTSCH: Right now he`s got to -- unfortunately the rap he`s gotten because he`s been reflective. I love when people -- I can`t remember when the incident happened was the -- oh, after the aborted -- Afghanistan. Where he said I`m going to take six weeks and figure this out.
Why aren`t you making a decision tomorrow just like Bush? Shoot first and ask questions later. That`s what I want the chief executive to do is to be a bit more reflective. Unfortunately that`s backfired on him a little bit. People have seen that as weakness and undecisiveness.
What he`s got to do from an image point of view is -- I`m not saying shoot first and ask questions later. You can`t lose intelligence but seem a bit more in charge. There is a show here.
BEHAR: I don`t know if he`s got it in him to act in that way.
DEUTSCH: I think he does. I think he does.
BEHAR: He`s sort of like a professor.
DEUTSCH: And you know. He`s also been a year in office. I have to tell you, taking any job for the first -- of course, he`s been waffling around a little bit. I would expect that of anybody. I think it`s going to take a year or two of his chops.
I also think what`s going to happen in 2010 will actually help him. Because clearly what`s going to happen is Republicans are going to get more traction and it`s going to force him to say, "It`s me against them. I`ve got to fight harder."
And what tends to work in this country frankly is that bipartisanship is when the House is one way and the presidential office is another way. It tends to be when most stuff gets done. That`s when Clinton was most successful, that`s when Bush number one was most successful. That seems to be the formula.
BEHAR: Dick Cheney says he`s going to be a one-term president.
DEUTSCH: Dick Cheney is a putz.
BEHAR: I hope he`s so wrong that we can play that clip over and over and over again the day after the guy is re-elected.
DEUTSCH: Dick Cheney is just a -- he should just go away. You almost get the sense that this guy is -- and this is going to come out the wrong - - I`m not say rooting for a terrorist attack so he can say "I told you so." It`s like -- he`s just evil. He`s a bad guy, you know, "Let`s torture more guys. Let`s get them."
BEHAR: Can I quote you as saying that Dick Cheney is a putz?
DEUTSCH: Is a putz? Yes.
BEHAR: Ok. For those of you who don`t know what a putz is, it`s French.
Donny thanks.
Have Angelina Jolie and her dad Jon Voight finally buried the hatchet? There`s a good story. Find out next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I love this item. 100,000 condoms have been given out to the athletes in the Olympic village, 100,000 condoms. Did I miss something? Is Charlie Sheen at the Olympics?
Joining me now to discuss the salacious details are Chris Harrison, host of ABC`S "The Bachelor." Annabelle Gurwitch, actress and author of "I Say Tomato, I Say Shut Up, A Love Story." That`s a good title. And comedian Danny Bhoy, who`s one hour special is coming soon to Comedy Central.
Welcome. What do you make of all this? Why are they giving out 100,000 condoms? You`re the expert from "The Bachelor" show.
CHRIS HARRISON, HOST "THE BACHELOR": I`ve been married for 16 years.
BEHAR: Oh.
HARRISON: What`s that like? What do they do with those things anyway? Look, you have the most beautiful, talented athletic people in the world. They lock them in the village for a month. What do you think they`re going to do? Of course they need 100,000 condoms.
ANNABELLE GURWITCH, AUTHOR: I have a theory about this. I think actually a great act of compassion because, you know, these athletes have trained to do one thing their entire career. They might need some practice. It works out to about 14 condoms per athlete. We don`t let them compete without a trial run, a practice one. This is what they`re for. They`ve got to practice a little.
BEHAR: But Danny, do you think they have sex before or after their event?
DANNY BHOY, COMEDIAN: I don`t know what it is. What is it with the winter Olympics and latex? They seem to be dressed as giant condoms anyway. So I don`t know how much more protection they could possibly need.
BEHAR: Well but do you think that they`re doing it before they go do the event?
BHOY: I can tell you --
BEHAR: Because aren`t spouses not supposed to have sex before the event?
(CROSSTALK)
HARRISON: Well I think a lot of athletes, they do - abstain.
GURWITCH: Don`t they -
HARRISON: Try and harness that power.
BEHAR: Right, right.
GURWITCH: Well also, what`s the guy`s name, Scott Lagos?
BEHAR: Scotty Lagos.
HARRISON: Yes.
GURTWITCH: Scotty Lago, now he was thrown out. I actually think they should take away his bronze and give him a gold because by getting thrown out of the Olympic village, he`s going to get laid more which is what you want when you`re 23 years old.
BHOY: Exactly.
BEHAR: And you know, speaking of him, look at this photo we have of him getting frisky with a fan. See that? Take a look. He`s got -- apologize --
GURTWITCH: Yes.
BHOY: Imagine if he had won a gold.
HARRISON: Yes, I know exactly what do you get for a gold medal, no, that was for a bronze.
GURWITCH: 23. He`s 23 years old. This explains it. All you do is say the age, that`s it.
BEHAR: But isn`t the Olympic committee sending mixed messages about sex? That`s supposed to be a squeaky-clean event. Or do we care?
BHOY: I watched the men`s figure skating. And I don`t think unwanted pregnancies is a concern.
BEHAR: You don`t?
BHOY: No.
GURTWITCH: They don`t need them.
BHOY: I don`t know if you`ve seen the costumes.
BEHAR: They`re very, how shall we say, flamboyant.
BHOY: I don`t think -- yes, absolutely. I`d be more concerned about running out of Campari.
(CROSSTALK)
GURWITCH: Wait a minute. You watched that event -
BHOY: I did watch it.
HARRISON: Why are you watching men`s figure skating?
BHOY: Look to be honest with you --
BEHAR: Well, they`re fascinating to watch and they`re highly skilled.
BHOY: Are they?
BEHAR: The figure skaters? Did you ever see the spins that they do? My god.
BHOY: I can`t get excited about it. I tried to but I can`t.
BEHAR: Now let`s talk about this group, the brother and sister ice skating pair, Sinead and John Kerr -
GURWTICH: Right.
BEHAR: Have been making some people cringe. Look at these pictures. I mean, these are brother and sister.
GURWITCH: This is just -- this speaks to the double standard we have in our society.
BEHAR: About incest?
GURWITCH: Well, yes. If they were sisters and they were twins --
BEHAR: Oh, yes, we`d love it.
GURWITCH: You`d get higher ratings than the super bowl. Yes, we would love that. We would love to see -
(CROSSTALK)
HARRISON: As long as he has a condom on that was given by the IOC, I think it`s okay.
BEHAR: That`s disgusting.
GURWITCH: He may have 14 condoms on.
BEHAR: We`re talking about siblings here.
BHOY: That`s right.
BEHAR: I think it`s a little bit -- a little bit -- speaking of strange behavior between siblings like those two skaters, Angelina Jolie is in the news. Remember that make out session she had with her brother?
HARRISON: Right, at the Oscars, wasn`t it?
BEHAR: That was very risque at the Oscars, you know. Well Jolie and her father, Jon Voight, are reconciling after years of not speaking. You can tell this reconciliation is real because she tattooed his name on her neck. Not. Kidding! Okay Voight is a bit of a loose cannon, Jon Voight.
And they haven`t spoken for years. I think it has to do with his politics. He`s very much the right winger -
GURWITCH: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: And she hates that. So what do you think? What do you think, do you think that they can get together?
GURWITCH: Well we don`t know what actually has been said, why they even got together. I mean, which is surprising because there`s so much press around her, it`s amazing there`s not a camera inside her vagina monitoring whether she`s pregnant right this minute because they`re all over her, right?
BEHAR: I know.
GURWITCH: But first of all -
BEHAR: Don`t you think they ask for it, she and Brad Pitt? They kind of like it.
GURWITCH: They do, but meanwhile, this meeting took place in Venice, Italy, and I think that has a lot to do why they`re together. Because has anyone in the history of the world ever gotten a call and said would you meet me in Italy in Venice.
HARRISON: Can`t make it.
GURWITCH: No, and said no, can`t go.
BEHAR: Oh I see.
GURWITCH: So I mean it is -- he came because it`s Venice, but maybe he`s trying to get her to say she`ll work the Kabad telethon.
BEHAR: The Kabad.
GURWITCH: The Kabad. He`s really big on the Kabad telethon.
HARRISON: Do you really think it`s the politics.
GURWITCH: Yes.
HARRISION: You think it is because he`s conservative in and she`s liberal?
BEHAR: What do you think is the reason.
HARRISON: I don`t know. I hope that they get back together. I know they have been estrange. But it`s interesting like, do you think it`s really politics could drive a father and daughter apart so much?
BEHAR: It could. It could if you are really committed to one -
GURWITCH: No, he -
BEHAR: Position or the other. And he`s very, very radical to the Right.
HARRISON: Yes.
BEHAR: And I don`t think she is at all. So wasn`t there some skirmish with her mother and him? And the mother died recently. Well, I don`t know. Maybe she figures he`s going to die soon.
GURWITCH: isn`t it kind of amazing we`re talking about them? I mean aren`t we doing what they want us to do? If we`re saying that they seek out this kind of press --
BEHAR: So what?
GURWITCH: -- we`re doing that.
BEHAR: So what -
HARRISON: The terrorist of our time.
BEHAR: Well like it, we want to talk about them. Everybody seeks out the press. We just have a show. We just want to do it.
GURWITCH: No, but don`t you think --
BHOY: I would just like to point out, I`m not talking about it. I don`t care.
BEHAR: Do you even know who they are?
BHOY: I barely know who they are. I know Angelina Jolie -- no, I really don`t. I just don`t care. It`s really bad.
BEHAR: He`s had his head under a shillelagh. What does he know?
GURWITCH: That`s what I think we have America -
BHOY: I don`t know what that means either.
GURWITCH: No that`s what we have, though. I call this celebrity slowing, right? It`s like spectator slowing but with celebrities. We can`t wait to see what kind of car crash in their lives. We`re fascinated by it.
BEHAR: Okay, let`s change the topic to a non-celebrity topic.
GURWITCH: All right, all right.
BEHAR: Watch everybody will click their channels now.
GURWITCH: No, you are right.
BEHAR: Some baby boomers aren`t giving up smoking pot as they get older and that others are actually coming back to it as they retire. Who knew so many people suffered from glaucoma?
HARRISON: Exactly.
BEHAR: Danny, what do you think about that topic?
BHOY: No this is interesting because just this weekend I had an elderly lady in the front row of my show who claimed she smoked marijuana regularly. And I said, oh. What`s the ailment? And she said she had arthritis in the hands.
BEHAR: Oh, yeah?
BHOY: And I said how long you been smoking dope for? Ten years. I said, did you ever entertain the thought that the arthritis was caused by rolling joints? And she said that`s a very good point.
BEHAR: Or carpal tunnel at the least.
BHOY: Cause and effect. There you go.
BEHAR: Well what do you think it is about baby boomers increasing pot smoking? Is it that they don`t want to get old? They don`t want to go back to the grateful dead days? I mean what are they --
GURWITCH: Who wants to get old? I mean okay, let`s face it. But actually, I think take out a headline that they`re not smoking pot. These are the same people who have always been smoking pot.
BEHAR: True.
GURWITCH: They just got to be older now. And now they actually have to smoke more pot because they have to try to understand the Medicare benefits. That is so confusing.
BEHAR: It focuses you, that`s for sure. In the same paragraph.
GURWITCH: I`ve got to get high for this.
HARRISON: At least now I know where my care packages are going. I used to get brownies all the time. Now I know she`s just keeping them.
BEHAR: Oh brownies, ooh, baby.
BHOY: I love the thought of a 90-year-old getting munchies and just going down our little skater --
BEHAR: There`s time to get high when you`re 80. Nobody cares anymore, you know.
GURWITCH: If you`re 80-
BHOY: I`ve got some crack cocaine waiting for my 80th birthday, just waiting, wrapped up.
BEHAR: Okay now, Sean Penn has been charged --
GURWITCH: Right.
BEHAR: With misdemeanor battery and vandalism after allegedly attacking a photographer in L.A. last year. Now there`s a guy who needs to smoke pot. Okay, this guy is so angry, you know. I mean Sean has had run ins, he makes Dick Cheney look like a Deepak Chopra.
BHOY: The more I hear about this guy, the more I like him. Because there are people in this world that like getting the photo taken. And there`s people that hate it. And that is a fact. I smashed up a passport booth the other day when it tried to take my photo. I hate getting my photo taken. And I think just taking photos of people --
BEHAR: That`s a bit extreme, Danny Bhoy.
BHOY: It is a little bit extreme. But you know --
BEHAR: But let`s take a look at this video from TMZ of Sean. I like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED: Get out. Get out. Get out. Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out.
(END VIDEO CLIP
BEHAR: Anger management.
BHOY: He kicked the wrong part there -
GURWITCH: Yes, he might have gotten confused with Oscar season and Olympics season and apology season. I think, actually, maybe he could gold medal in, like, kicking -- photography bashing.
HARRISON: He`s 49 years old.
BEHAR: Yes.
HARRISON: At some point, isn`t it not cool to be the tough guy and keep beating people up? I`m impressed he didn`t throw out his back. But 49? Like really? Enough.
BEHAR: Why not just walk away from the paparazzi, too?
BHOY: But they were taking photographs right in his car.
GURWITCH: I do have compassion for him, though. I do think these people, they don`t only photograph you, they seek out confrontation. I mean, when you watch, like, the whole, like, whatever, ten minutes of the footage, you can see, I think that there`s some provocation there.
BEHAR: Well, it`s easy to sell a photograph or a video if someone`s attacking you.
GURWITCH: Right, I think they want him.
HARRISON: But they do that to hundreds of thousands of people. They just know he`s so easy.
BEHAR: He`s easy. Thank you very much for stopping by.
Up next, Ted and Gayle Haggard tell me what they think Tiger Woods can do to save his marriage. How do you like that?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIGER WOODS, GOLF PLAYER: Elin has shown enormous grace and poise throughout this ordeal. Elin deserves praise, not blame.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: When Tiger Woods apologized to the world, his press conference must have looked familiar to the two people joining me which must have prompted them to reach out to us. Like Tiger, they, too, were embroiled in a sex scandal when he stepped down on his wife. Here with their take on marriages and trouble are Ted Haggard, a former pastor who had an affair with a male escort and his wife, Gayle, author of "Why I Stayed: The Choices I Made In My Darkest Hour." welcome to the show, you guys.
GAYLE HAGGARD, AUTHOR: Hi, Joy. It`s great to be back with you.
BEHAR: Nice to see you, Gayle.
TED HAGGARD: Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: Okay with the exception of who you and Tiger choose to cheat with, your stories are similar. Both had a squeaky-clean image. Nobody expected this to happen.
T. HAGGARD: Uh huh. Right.
BEHAR: And everybody`s immediate response is that the wife will leave.
T. HAGGARD: Right.
BEHAR: Gayle, what do you think Tiger and Elin need to do first in order to keep their marriage?
G. HAGGARD: Well, I hate to say that anybody knows exactly what they should do. This is their own choice. But I do feel as though they`re taking right steps. I felt as though in Tiger`s press conference that he held the other day, that he did an amazing job of representing himself. He`s had excellent counsel. And I think he`s taken the right first steps to try to mend his marriage.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. How about you, Ted? What do you think?
T. HAGGARD: Oh, I agree completely. I think him going to counseling is great. I think his wife, it`s been reported that she`s been there some herself. He`s obviously, by his press conference, trying to save his marriage, which is the first thing to do, trying to get himself in shape. That`s very important. And by in shape, I mean the type of lifestyle he wants to live in the future. He`s getting help with that. And so I think they`re taking the right steps. And I think they`re going to do a good job.
BEHAR: Well, what kind of therapy do you think that he needs?
T. HAGGARD: Well, the therapy, if it`s anything like the therapy that we went through, it doesn`t deal with orientation. It doesn`t deal with things like that. It deals with helping a person get their sex life lined up with their values system.
BEHAR: How do you do that? I mean, it`s a little bit different, isn`t it, to have a sex drive line up about your values system? I mean, one is kind of like an instinct, like eating and sleeping.
T. HAGGARD: It is. But all of us know it`s important to control how much we eat and what we eat. It`s important to control even how much we sleep. Some people would sleep their entire lives away. And so we discipline our lives. And some areas of our life are easier to discipline than other areas based on our life.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
T. HAGGARD: And so a good counselor can walk a person through. And if Tiger is saying to his counselor, I want to be faithful, I want to be monogamous, I want to be exclusive to my wife, then the counselor walks him through the process of -- and gives him the tools that he needs to be able to gain that discipline in his life. -
G. HAGGARD: And do - yes --
T. HAGGARD: And then his wife`s going to be able to trust him. They`ll be able to have the kind of marriage that they want. And that will be fantastic, which is exactly what`s happened with me and Gayle.
BEHAR: Gayle, do you trust Ted now? Do you trust him?
G. HAGGARD: Here`s what I trust about my husband. I trust that he does love me. And I trust that he is sincere in the process. That he is really trying to do everything that he`s promised me to do and live faithful to me. And we`ve had to go through the counseling that we`ve gone through to try to identify what the problem was and work with it. But I do trust him that he is sincere in the process and really trying to be faithful to me.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. Do you think Elin needs to join Tiger in the therapy? Should she be there with him?
G. HAGGARD: I think that is a big part of it because I think she`s going to have to gain understanding as to how Tiger got into the position that he`s in. That will help her in making her future choices.
BEHAR: Well, you stayed with your husband. Mrs. Sanford has decided to leave her philandering husband. Mrs. Edwards has decided to leave her philandering husband. So some wives stay and some do not. Do you think that she should stay? Would you blame her if she left?
G. HAGGARD: I wouldn`t blame her, and I don`t think that I can project on to her the decision that she should make. However, what I would want to do is give her hope that if she does decide to fight for her marriage and to fight for her own husband, this is her husband, then I would support her in that.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
T. HAGGARD: You know, and it seems to me, Joy, that a big part is when somebody makes a horrible series of mistakes the way I made and the way Tiger made, even though they were different in nature, that it`s important for others to do all they can to keep their heart soft because in the Sanford situation, it seemed as though when her heart was soft, his heart got hard. Then when his heart got soft, her heart was hard. And they never matched up. And because of it, they lost their marriage and their family. Where Gayle made the decisions so that when my heart finally softened, her heart was soft. And we were able to rescue our marriage and our family. And that was great. That was great. That was great.
BEHAR: I give you two credit for trying to work it out. But a lot of people feel, Ted, you just are denying your true nature.
T. HAGGARD: Yes, well -- well, I would know that better than anybody. And my counselors would be able to see that if I were in denial or not facing something. I mean, I`ve been in therapy for three years, and they`ve been working to ensure that that doesn`t happen. And I`ve told them specifically, I want you to use confrontational reality therapy to make sure I`m not living a delusional life. And they`ve done a great job with that. And I -- I think I would know.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, okay. That`s fair. I think it`s fair for you to say that. It just goes against conventional wisdom these days and psychological understanding of the situation.
T. HAGGARD: It doesn`t. It doesn`t go against psychological understanding of the situation. 8What it goes against is pop psychology that makes life easier if everything is a nice little box. But I`ve not had one therapist -- I bet I`ve had over 15 therapists work on my case. And I`ve not had one that would say that I was delusional, not one that said I have been in denial or anything like that.
BEHAR: No, okay, I say that`s fair. I`ve never heard of a heterosexual going into therapy to turn homosexual, though. Never heard that.
T. HAGGARD: Well, I didn`t -- I didn`t go into therapy to turn anything homosexual into heterosexual. I went into therapy for trauma resolution therapy, and the byproduct of it was that the things that I was doing with Mike came to a stop. I totally lost everything associated with that. And I was able to be disciplined with my wife and in a delightful relationship with my wife.
BEHAR: Yes.
T. HAGGARD: So I didn`t go to any type of therapy to change anybody`s sexual orientation or anything like that. It was purely dealing with trauma. And once that trauma was dealt with, it helped the rest of life be congruent.
BEHAR: And you didn`t lose a lot when this whole scandal broke.
T. HAGGARD: We lost everything.
BEHAR: I mean people in your church turned on you. But you know I have trouble with that, I have to tell you. I said this to Gayle when she was here.
T. HAGGARD: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean they are supposed to be Christians and they turn your back on you. That was not the very Christian thing to do.
T. HAGGARD: Well that was the hardest thing. Actually, I haven`t had to deal with sexual issues in counseling for over two years. What I`ve had to deal with in counseling was dealing with the rejection from the people that I thought were my friends and brothers and sisters and all of that type of thing.
But now that is starting to turn. With Gayle`s book coming out and people reading the story and relating to it more and seeing the HBO documentary, "The Trials of Ted Haggard" when people get that information, with more information, it makes sense and then they are able to be more forgiving and more loving.
BEHAR: Okay, guy, stick around. We`ll have more with the Haggards when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the Gayle and Ted Haggard. I want to talk about religion for a minute. Brit Hume from FOX TV once said that Tiger should convert to Christianity if he wants to make a comeback. Now Tiger Woods is a Buddhist. How do you think his faith comes into play her and was that a fair thing for Brit to say?
T. HAGGARD: Well I don`t know if it`s fair for Brit to say or not. I think Brit was out of a kind and benevolent heart offering an idea to Tiger about forgiveness, redemption, and that type of thing. And Buddhism is more of works orientation, personal responsibility faith.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
T. HAGGARD: And so but Tiger was clear in his press conference when he said he has the responsibility to be the type of man that he should be and he wanted to draw on his faith in order to strengthen himself. Everybody has that privilege and right. And so both of them are well meaning.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. Gayle, you slept with Ted the night you found out about all of the scandal that, you know, we all know about it. I don`t want to rehash everything.
T. HAGGARD: Thank you.
BEHAR: You`re welcome. I mean, they can read your wife`s book, right?
T. HAGGARD: Right. They sure can.
BEHAR: How did you do that that night? That must have been a tough one.
G. HAGGARD: Well, it was a tough one. And I describe my emotions in the book, that I was feeling betrayal, loss, anger, I was feeling revulsion. But in those first moments when I felt my husband reach for me, which I was accustomed to him doing at night, just to reach out his hand to me, I knew I had to make the decision. Am in this with him or am I out. And it was in those moments that I took his hand to say, I`m with you, Ted.
BEHAR: How did you learn to trust him again, though?
G. HAGGARD: Well, it was a process. And I had to start with, what do I trust today? And I trusted from the beginning that he did love me and that he did want to rescue our marriage. But then he took it upon himself and he said it`s my responsibility to re-earn your trust and to make you feel safe again.
So he started -
BEHAR: Uh huh.
G. HAGGARD: Putting systems in place. Even made everything - his cell phone, his computer, everything was open to me to look at any time I wanted to. And he was willing to process all of my anger and my feelings and to stay in the process with me. In doing that, he was taking the steps to re-earn my trust.
BEHAR: Well Tiger Woods in his apology did say something about how his behavior towards his wife will really determine whether their marriage will survive. Not the words that he says. Because obviously he can say anything he wants.
T. HAGGARD: Right.
BEHAR: And so is that - that`s what you are talking about I think, right?
G. HAGGARD: Absolutely. And I think trust, trust is earned over time and consistency. And that`s something Tiger will have to work out. That`s what we`ve been through. I just believe that it is possible.
BEHAR: Let me ask you Ted just one more question before we go.
T. HAGGARD: Sure.
BEHAR: If you had not children, do you think that the whole thing - that the two of you would have been willing to put in the work to save the marriage?
T. HAGGARD: I think so. We were married before we had children and -
BEHAR: I know but that was before you - you had these liaisons so to say.
T. HAGGARD: One of the reasons though Joy that I kept my thing secret was I really wanted to get that fixed without breaking Gayle`s heart. And I wanted - I wanted to get myself in line before my children were so shamed. And it turned out not working that way. But my children and my wife made great decisions. And so I think Gayle would have probably made the same decision. And I hope I would have made the same decision if the children weren`t players in that.
BEHAR: Okay well, thank you very much you guys. And good luck to you both.
T. HAGGARD: Thank you.
BEHAR: I hope it works out.
G. HAGGARD:
T. HAGGARD: Good to see you again -
BEHAR: Okay. And thank you all for watching, good night everybody.
END
