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Nancy Grace
Joran Confesses to Dumping Natalee`s Body in Dutch TV Interview
Aired February 23, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police couldn`t or wouldn`t make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot in the disappearance of Holloway, even after high-tech secret surveillance catches him describing the night the Alabama beauty was killed. After Van Der Sloot`s father, Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot, long believed to have been key in the cover-up for his son, collapses dead on a tennis court at a swanky Aruban resort, speculation Joran Van Der Sloot would slip up.
Well, bombshell tonight. Without Daddy pulling the strings, thinking, even talking for him, loose cannon Joran Van Der Sloot gives a second confession! Repeat, second confession. Just days after Daddy`s cremated, Joran Van Der Sloot says he dumped the body of teen beauty, American girl Natalee Holloway in a swamp on the north tip of the island, and it`s all caught on video. Will justice finally win out?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, SUSPECT IN HOLLOWAY DISAPPEARANCE (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up. And one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movies. This is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Shaking?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes, very much. So I said to myself (EXPLETIVE DELETED) what is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What did you do then?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I stayed with her. There was nobody there, Patrick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of course there was nobody there. It was night, Joran.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her. And she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): So how long was she shaking for? Do you know what that is?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): An epileptic attack or so?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She was shaking? Was there foam coming out of her mouth?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): No, no foam coming out of her mouth. I didn`t see that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE): Breaking news. Joran Van Der Sloot, the former suspect in the disappearance and death of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, just confesses he dumped Natalee Holloway`s body in a swamp. This according to the prosecutor, who called the new claim unbelievable, the confession coming in a new TV interview.
BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: When I hear Joran talking about her like that -- my gosh, he just -- you know, first you want to come through the TV and I want to kill him, I mean, peel the skin off his face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Without Daddy pulling strings, thinking, even talking for him, loose cannon Joran Van Der Sloot gives a second confession. Second confession! Only days after his Daddy`s cremated, Joran Van Der Sloot says he dumped the body of teen beauty, American girl Natalee Holloway in a swamp on the north tip of the island. And it`s all caught on video. Will justice finally win out?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot has told a Dutch TV station he dumped Natalee Holloway`s body in a swamp. Aruba`s chief prosecutor tells CNN the claims are unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): And one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movies. This is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Shaking?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes, very much. So I said to myself (EXPLETIVE DELETED) what is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What did you do then?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I stayed with her. There was nobody there, Patrick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of course there was nobody there. It was night, Joran.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her. And she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): So how long was she shaking for? Do you know what that is?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): An epileptic attack or so?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She was shaking? Was there foam coming out of her mouth?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): No, no foam coming out of her mouth. I didn`t see that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran always denied that Natalee died in his presence. And now he confessed that. He told what he did with the body and he told how he came home, what he did with his shoes. It`s the complete story.
BETH HOLLOWAY: He has just totally, totally dragged us all through hell with him, this Joran Van Der Sloot.
DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S FATHER: I think that his pattern is, is that he will continue talking. But will he eventually be arrested and convicted and placed in jail for what he says? And your pessimistic attorneys say no, but you know, we -- they underestimated our perseverance in the initial few days when we arrived on the island and they made a decision to attempt to cover up the case. And if we had thrown our arms up and went on home, well, you know, they would have been successful. But you know, we`re four- and-a-half years into it and none of us have given up and we`ll continue to seek out answers. We`re a lot further along in the process than we were the first week. But whether we get the justice Natalee deserves, that`s the ultimate question. But I`m certainly not going to quit, and if I do quit, everyone else will quit. So that`s not the option.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, In Session. First of all, before we get to what Aruban prosecutors will or won`t do with their second videotaped confession, tell me what we know about what`s on that confession.
JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION: Here`s what we know. We only know a little bit because it`s going to be broadcast in the Netherlands this weekend. But what we know is that he confessed to taking the body and putting it in a swamp or marsh on the north side of the island. Now, television station, in Dutch, in the Netherlands, channel 5, was given this information some months ago. They`re now going to broadcast it full on Dutch television. The question is, Nancy, what do we already know that can corroborate this confession by Joran Van Der Sloot?
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live tonight. It`s my understanding that Aruban prosecutors have been apprised that Joran Van Der Sloot, without his daddy, Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot, around to think for him, has managed to give yet a second confession in the death of Natalee Holloway.
With me tonight, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta, Alan Ripka, defense attorney, New York. Gentlemen, welcome. First of all, Ray Giudice, how many videos does it take in order to get a prosecution?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I`ll concede that I`ve had clients indicted for a whole lot less evidence than there is out there at this point in time against this guy. But let me also say this appears to be at least the third different version of facts he`s given. He told an American reporter in `08 that he had sold Natalee to a sex slave trade. That`s why the prosecutors don`t know what the truth is.
GRACE: What about it, Ripka?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The bottom line is he can keep on telling stories to many, many people, but until they get a piece of evidence that`s going to corroborate what he says, they`re not going to be able to prosecute him. However, the more he talks, the more directions that the prosecutor can go in to try to find that evidence, Nancy.
GRACE: Joining me right now by phone, a very special guest, the chief prosecutor out of Aruba, Peter Blanken. Sir, thank you for being with us.
PETER BLANKEN, CHIEF PROSECUTOR (via telephone): Hello? Yes?
GRACE: Yes. Hello. Hello, Peter.
BLANKEN: Hello. How are you?
GRACE: I`m well. Sir...
BLANKEN: OK.
GRACE: ... I understand that Joran Van Der Sloot has given another taped confession. Is that correct?
BLANKEN: Well, I don`t think it is a confession. He has given an interview, and he has made a version of what could have happened. We saw the CD in September last year, and we investigated the declaration he make, statement he make, and we found out that what he said was another lie. It wasn`t true. The persons he mentioned, they all denied. And some facts about location we investigated, and they appeared not to be true.
GRACE: Peter Blanken is with us, the chief prosecutor out of Aruba. Mr. Blanken, did he, in fact, state that he dumped Natalee Holloway`s body in a swampy area?
BLANKEN: That`s correct. That`s correct.
GRACE: And how did you confirm that was not true?
BLANKEN: We found out that all the things we could investigate were not true. And we asked if it was possible to -- for Joran to come to Aruba and to point out where in that swamp he shooted (ph) or he claims to have pushed the body, and then we can investigate at that spot. But the place is about 700,000 square meters and it`s about 200,000 square meters of water, so it`s for us impossible to have a thorough investigation on the whole -- the whole swamp.
GRACE: OK. Well, Peter Blanken...
BLANKEN: We need more specific information.
GRACE: You are the chief prosecutor...
BLANKEN: Yes.
GRACE: ... and you`re telling me that you do not believe, that you have investigated it, his last confession.
BLANKEN: Yes.
GRACE: And in the same breath, you`re saying you cannot investigate it because the swamp is so big. So have you investigated it or not?
BLANKEN: So what we investigated appears not to be true, and what we would like to investigate, namely, the exact spot where he (INAUDIBLE) he said he wanted to clear his conscience, so let him tell where he put the body, and then we can very thoroughly investigate on that specific spot.
GRACE: Joining me right...
BLANKEN: But (INAUDIBLE) didn`t say.
GRACE: Joining me right now out of Meridian, Mississippi, is Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway. Dave Holloway, that does not sound genuine to me. How can you say, I can`t investigate it because there`s too much swampland, and yet, We have investigated it and determined the confession is not accurate? Explain to me your understanding, Dave Holloway. This is Natalee`s father with us tonight.
DAVE HOLLOWAY (via telephone): I was just wondering where this -- what the name of this body of water is and where it`s located because, you know, I would probably be willing to get a search team together and go search all of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: young people just don`t die from drinking too much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 18-year-old was last seen in public leaving a bar with Van Der Sloot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In interviews, Van Der Sloot denied accusations of rape and murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He also says, I haven`t lost a night`s sleep over this.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: He has no remorse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran lied a couple of time, established lies.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: He`s tried to avoid this justice system.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was just not moving anymore.
GRACE: No history of epilepsy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wasn`t thinking anymore.
GRACE: No history that she had used drugs that night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And so I thought she must be dead.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: Something`s wrong here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then he dumped her into the ocean.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: A total disregard for everyone except for himself.
BETH HOLLOWAY: He has just totally, totally, dragged us all through hell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He thought he was off the hook. He considered himself as a winner.
BETH HOLLOWAY: Yes. I know he knows.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: Nothing was done right in the beginning on this thing. Or otherwise, we`d have an answer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had the best time of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): And one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movies. This is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Shaking?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes, very much. So I said to myself (EXPLETIVE DELETED) what is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What did you do then?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I stayed with her. There was nobody there, Patrick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of course there was nobody there. It was night, Joran.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her. And she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): So how long was she shaking for? Do you know what that is?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): An epileptic attack or so?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She was shaking? Was there foam coming out of her mouth?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): No, no foam coming out of her mouth. I didn`t see that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, In Session. Jean, I understand that not only is there this CD of a Joran Van Der Sloot second confession, but that he`s set to have another sit-down interview aired this coming weekend on national TV there in the Netherlands.
CASAREZ: That`s right, with RTL channel 5. In fact, that second interview may have been done today, according to Bert Hauschusch (ph), a reporter of "De Telegraph." He was set to do a second interview that was possibly shot today, originally in Frankfurt, but now maybe in a northern small town of the Netherlands.
GRACE: Do we have any idea of the content of the third confession?
CASAREZ: No, we don`t, but NBC News is reporting that he is still saying her death was an accident. And Nancy, that is corroborated with what you just showed on the air, that undercover investigative report that was done years gone by.
GRACE: And -- but this is my question. If it`s an accident that she passes away, that she dies, Jean Casarez, then why does he hide the body? Typically, when someone has an accident and is dying, you call 911 and you try to help them. You don`t put their body out in the ocean or in a swamp or bury it or call your dad to hide the body if it`s an accident.
CASAREZ: But if you have the consciousness of guilt that you are responsible, you then can decide to hide that body.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what were the circumstances under which these confessions -- new confessions were given?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, it`s our understanding that RTL channel 5 was approached by Van Der Sloot and possibly also a friend of his, who`s described as this Netherlands reality TV star. Apparently, the two of them made this tape together and then brought it to RTL.
GRACE: Was he paid, Ellie?
JOSTAD: That we don`t know, Nancy, and there have been a lot of allegations in the past that that is why Joran Van Der Sloot is telling these stories to media organizations, because he wants money.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, joining us from San Francisco. What do you make of it, Marc?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I make several things. First of all, we know that he`s consistently demonstrated that he`s reckless and that he`s sloppy. There`s no way that Joran Van Der Sloot is going to carry the body of Natalee Holloway to the interior of a 70,000- square-meter swamp. If, in fact, he dumped her in the swamp, it`s going to be somewhere near the closest perimeter to wherever he happened to be with that girl.
So I think that -- I think that her father is right on spot, if he wants to find out where that plot of land is so that he can go -- so that he can go and do his own search. And I furthermore think that saying that this -- I furthermore believe that -- that disproving this theory, or this confession by talking to the people he implicates is absurd because they`re not going to implicate themselves.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETH HOLLOWAY: It was very hard to watch that and hear him call Natalee the names that he did, and his total lack of humanity of trying to get help for her, instead of trying to dispose of her body. I mean, you know, he -- that`s all he had in his mind at that point, was to get rid of her body instead of trying to get help. And then just to hear his callous nature about him, with no -- no regrets and no remorse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Linda in New York. Hi, Linda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to say I love your show, and your children are beautiful. They`re adorable.
GRACE: Linda, thank you very much. They are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve watched your show from beginning, and thank you for this story.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since Joran was young, always had a lot of money in the clubs, I believe that he was put there to attract these young girls on vacation. So my question is this. Since they`ve looked all over Aruba and found absolutely nothing, has anybody thought about going undercover in Venezuela to see if Natalee is alive and was sold into a sex trade?
GRACE: I`m going to go to Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway. Dave is joining us from Meridian, Mississippi. Dave, that theory that Natalee had been sold into prostitution has floated around for years. Do you really believe there`s any credence to that?
DAVE HOLLOWAY: No. I think the true story is where they caught him on the undercover tape in the SUV, and I think that`s the real story. And he`s been on the run since then. I know he had to leave home because of potential death threats and bodily harm against him, and he was en route to maybe Australia or somewhere like that and got hung up in China and eventually landed in Thailand. And so, you know, that`s -- that`s what (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: I think you`re right. Dave Holloway`s saying that he believes the truth lies somewhere in this confession. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up. And one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movies. This is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Shaking?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes, very much. So I said to myself (EXPLETIVE DELETED) what is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What did you do then?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I stayed with her. There was nobody there, Patrick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of course there was nobody there. It was night, Joran.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her. And she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE (voice-over): By his own admission to authorities, Joran Van Der Sloot, the last one to be with her there on the beach -- he says he left her on the beach. He tells an entirely different story on secret survey surveillance video describing how she died.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, FORMER SUSPECT IN THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY MISSING CASE: So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her. And she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): So how long was she shaking for? Do you know what that is?
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): An epileptic attack or so?
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): She was shaking? Was there foam coming out of her mouth?
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): No, no foam coming out of her mouth. I didn`t see that.
GRACE: Then on national TV interview, he says that he sold her into the sex trade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot has already told four, five different stories about what happened. So what if he comes and tells a sixth story?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Has told a TV station that he dumped her body in the swamp in Aruba. The alleged confession made in a TV interview that will be part of a Dutch TV special on the Holloway case.
Aruba`s chief --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Just when you think it can`t go on, Joran Van Der Sloot, literally, just days after his father is cremated, true to speculation, the loose cannon gives another confession. Not one, but two and they are apparently caught on video.
Out to our producer, Rupa Mikkilineni, joining us from New York. Rupa, break it down for me. There are two more confessions. Of course, Aruban prosecutors are saying they still don`t have enough to prosecute on, but what do we know about the facts of these confessions other than he says she passed away, passed away -- that`s a nice way to put it. That`s a euphemism.
And then he buried or hid her body, dumped her body in a swamp. Do we know if his third confession is the same thing or does it vary?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The third confession, we don`t know yet what he`s going to be saying. We only hope that he`s going to give more details about what he`s already said in his last two confessions.
Now, Nancy, the thing is, we constantly talk about the inconsistencies. And it`s true the details of what he tells in both of these first two confessions are inconsistent. What`s remained consistent is he says he was there when Natalee died. He felt guilty, didn`t know what to do supposedly.
And then on top of that, he confesses that he did get rid of her body. Now we don`t know how exactly how he got rid of her body, where he got rid of her body, but we know he did it.
And let`s not forget that Peter (INAUDIBLE), the Dutch reporter, two years ago, also found another witness, a girlfriend, that Joran Van Der Sloot told that I know how to get you now are lying on the beach with somebody that knows how to get rid of a corpse.
GRACE: You know, Rupa, you brought up a very interesting point.
Out to Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. Dr. Sanders, I thought that this was just anecdotal, but after all those many, many years of cross-examining felony defendants and their cohorts and their codefendants, very often when they would tell these fantastic tales, they would leave a bit of truth in the story.
I guess so they could keep up with the story and remember it. They`d stick to the truth and then when it got to be damning or incriminating, they`d veer off a little, then they`d come back to the truth and continue going, and veer off.
And it was almost every time someone would take the stand against their own interest that this would happen. Now we see it happening with Joran Van Der Sloot. As Rupa Mikkilineni is pointing out, in all of these confessions -- now we know of three caught on tape -- there is the single important fact that he was there when she died and he disposed of her body.
What more do I need, Dr. Saunders?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Not terribly much more except for evidence in the Aruban system. But that -- what you just described is the heart of pathological lying, Nancy, that the person weaves fantasy, misdirection, in with the truth.
And for the psychopath, which I suspect Joran Van Der Sloot is, there`s an almost pleasurable reliving of getting away with it, like the way some serial killers revisit the scenes of the crime.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Nanette in Kentucky. Hi, Nanette.
NANETTE, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
NANETTE: Well, I`d like to know, where was the chaperon? They were in a strange country. Why -- where did the chaperons coming in to guard a little girl going off with a strange man?
GRACE: That`s a very good question.
To Dave Holloway, this is Natalee`s father. It`s my understanding that it was a fine group of kids. None of them had ever been in any trouble before. There were plenty of chaperons, but a lot of people have asked, where were the chaperons that night.
Dave, you have researched this better than anyone on the show tonight. What`s the answer?
DAVE HOLLOWAY, FATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Well, I understand there was one chaperon at the bar and when the bar turned loose or let out, it`s like they didn`t have a plan and everyone scattered and some went to other bars or whatever and then she happened to be led to the car. And I think she was under the influence of possible date rape drug at that point in time.
GRACE: You know, Dave, we got to remember that they were there in that bar. She was there with a group of her friends. It wasn`t like she was off on her own. She was there with a pretty good bunch -- I mean a fair bit of kids were there.
HOLLOWAY: Yes.
GRACE: And she had been with Joran Van Der Sloot and they had had drinks together. So whether something was slipped in her drink, we will never know. But then, as I recall it -- back out to you, Ellie Jostad -- they all left together and a group of her girlfriends got in a cab and Joran Van Der Sloot said, hey, we`ll give you a ride.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right. Right. Yes, and that was one version of the story that Joran Van Der Sloot gave, that he and his friends, Deepak and Shakeesh Kalpoe, just dropped Natalee off at the Holiday Inn. He said that this black security guard walked up to her.
And you`ll remember, that`s what ended up getting those two guys who had nothing to do with this arrested with the fact that Joran said he dropped her at the Holiday Inn and this guy walked up to her.
He also said then later that no, no, you know what, I just left her on the beach. I just walked away. She was going to sit there and enjoy, you know, the sunrise by herself.
GRACE: Yes, right. OK. And didn`t he also say that she wanted to make love with him, but he didn`t want to and he got up and left?
JOSTAD: Well, yes. He`s also had a bunch of different versions of that story, too, Nancy. Sometimes he`ll say they were just kissing, sometimes he says nothing happened. But in that undercover video, he claims that they were doing more than just kissing and that he planned to have sex with her, but that`s when she started shaking and went into this apparent seizure.
GRACE: Translation, said no. To Dave Holloway, Natalee`s father who is with us tonight from (INAUDIBLE), Mississippi, I believe that I recall speaking to Beth, Natalee`s mother, and she told me that she saw in formal prosecution documents where he could describe Natalee`s underwear.
Did you see that or know of that in the official documents?
HOLLOWAY: Yes. Yes. It was in there.
GRACE: So, all of his BS about they just kissed on the beach, that is not true or he would never been able to describe her underwear.
HOLLOWAY: Right. And also, Nancy, a lot of people missed this, there were discrepancies in the three statements from the very beginning and it wasn`t until about two years later that I found out that the police officer had a supplement to Joran Van Der Sloot`s original state that he failed to mention that the drop-off point was at the Fisherman`s Hutch rather than Holiday Inn.
So it tells me that some police officers knew in the beginning that there were some discrepancies in the statement and instead, arrested two innocent security guards and didn`t make the initial arrest until 10 days later.
GRACE: I want to go back to the chief prosecutor there in Aruba. He is newly on the case. Peter Blanken is joining us.
Mr. Blanken, again, thank you for being with us. Is that true? Were there discrepancies in Joran Van Der Sloot`s original statements?
PETER BLANKEN, ARUBAN CHIEF PROSECUTOR: Well, let me say that Joran Van Der Sloot, he gave several statements and it`s -- the whole period of four, five years, he stated several things and most of them were contradictory.
So there were several statements and we investigated it very thoroughly, that we like the lost version of it, it was not true. It happened to be not true and I sincerely would like to solve this case. I really would like to do that. But we have to have evidence. We have to have evidence to be in court and to get him convicted.
And in your program, I hear a lot of speculation. I hear a lot of accusations, but what I need is evidence.
GRACE: With me is Peter Blanken, the chief prosecutor in Aruba. Seems to me that if he gives multiple lying statements, that would suggest that he is guilty.
Everyone, last Thursday, I asked you for your thoughts and prayers for my mom. She has had multiple setbacks since Thursday. I was so distraught that Thursday night.
Tonight, I want to thank you for your outpouring of prayers, e-mail, kind words. During the night, that night of Thursday, she made a miracle turnaround. Your prayers were heard and they were answered, and I want to thank you.
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HOLLOWAY: My thoughts are is that once Joran was taken into custody and gave his initial deposition, I think that`s where Paul Van Der Sloot came into action as far as changing up the statements and then doing what he had to do to get his son off.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot`s father has died. Judge- in-training Paulus Van Der Sloot collapsed suddenly in Aruba while playing tennis. He was unable to be resuscitated.
GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot, suspect in the disappearance of Alabama beauty, Natalee Holloway. Now, without daddy there to protect him any longer, will the truth finally come out?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Van Der Sloot has said he sold her in a sex trade, he said he threw her in the ocean.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They way he`s a loose canon is that he wants to brag about this crime. He confuses infamy with being famous. He thinks that this is exciting and that we want to hear his stories.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t prosecute a case based on admissions and confessions alone. That`s all they`ve got against Joran Van Der Sloot.
GRACE: There is some other evidence. There are the Kalpoe brothers, there is video of him leaving a bar with Natalee just before she goes missing. That could be deemed corroboration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s going the pay the price sooner or later.
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): And at one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movies, this is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): Shaking?
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): Yes, very much. So I said to myself, (EXPLETIVE DELETED), what is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): What did you do then?
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): So I stayed with her. There was nobody there, Patrick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): Of course there was nobody there. It was night, Joran.
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her. And she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): So how long was she shaking for?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, you were talking and talking and talking, and somehow, she suddenly just died, and you felt you had to dispose of the body.
Let`s unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. We now learn, in the wake of his father, Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot`s untimely death -- he dropped dead on a tennis court at a swanky Aruban resort. Confessions are emerging. Not one but two taped confessions.
One, we understand, is part of some reality TV. A stunt. The other is set to air this weekend on a national network there in the Netherlands.
To Raymond Giudice and Alan Ripka -- Ray Giudice, here in America as well, you cannot prosecute someone solely on their own confession. There`s got to be something else to corroborate it. But as I was pointing out earlier, there`s a lot to corroborate his confessions.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, but --
GRACE: He`s on video leaving with her. He`s told other people he was the last one with her. There were witnesses. The Kalpoe brothers that were with him that evening. What more do we need?
GIUDICE: Well, first of all, they haven`t been able to make the Kalpoe brothers roll in five years so I don`t see that that`s going to happen. You would thought it would.
Secondly, it`s not the version or multiple version of facts that Joran tells. As the prosecution pointed out, it`s the version of facts that he can prove. Not speculation. And accumulation of bad stories doesn`t make a conviction.
GRACE: Put Giudice up. Put him up.
Ray, you know as well as I do -- and you, too, Ripka -- even when you cannot find a body, you cannot prove the mode of death, a prosecution can still go forward.
Ray, I watched a trial unfold where all there was left of the body was a glass eyeball.
GIUDICE: You have --
GRACE: And there was a conviction.
GIUDICE: You have no --
GRACE: All right. So you`ve got him confessing. You have multiple witnesses seeing him --
GIUDICE: Nancy --
GRACE: -- as the last one with her that evening. You have people observing him and his father that night out searching the road near a pond. I mean it all fits together in a (INAUDIBLE) story.
GIUDICE: Yes, no crime scene, no weapon, no body and you keep calling these confessions. These are not under oath statements. They are not made pursuant to a law enforcement investigation. This boy can explain --
GRACE: You don`t have to be under oath to give a confession, Ray.
GIUDICE: I understand. I understand.
GRACE: So why did you just say that?
GIUDICE: But these are not --
GRACE: Then why did you just say that? I don`t know --
GIUDICE: Because you are --
GRACE: How you`re trying to misled viewers.
GIUDICE: No, I`m not.
GRACE: But a confession does not have to be given truthfully in the recorded statement.
GIUDICE: Because you know what these are.
GRACE: Yes?
GIUDICE: These are nonsensical statements made to the media for the purpose of probably getting paid. These are not what we would consider court-ordered or court interrogated, under oath confessions in our courses.
GRACE: OK. Hold on. I heard you the first time.
To Tom Shamshak, former police chief, now instructor at Boston University.
Tom -- I`d like to actually see Tom Shamshak, please, joining us out of Boston. There he is.
Tom, just a yes or no so we can clarify the misleading statements that Attorney Raymond Giudice has just made. Does a confession have to be made under oath to come into court?
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: No, Nancy.
GRACE: In fact, someone could confess to their next-door neighbor. No video.
SHAMSHAK: Yes.
GRACE: No audio. Nothing. And that confession comes into court. Yes? No?
SHAMSHAK: Yes.
GRACE: Now does a confession have to be made to police in order for it to come into court?
SHAMSHAK: No.
GRACE: So it doesn`t have to be sworn, it doesn`t have to be made to police and it doesn`t have to be recorded in a statement. Correct?
SHAMSHAK: Well, the preferable root is to have it memorialized in a statement taken by the police.
GRACE: Yes. But does it have to be a statement given to police, recorded and sworn, to come into court?
SHAMSHAK: No, Nancy. There are other avenues. Again, I`m not an attorney, but --
GRACE: In fact, Tom Shamshak, former police chief, isn`t it true that many, many times, if not the majority of times, murder defendants don`t confess to police. They slip up and they confess to somebody else, somebody they trust. Like a snitch, a relative, a neighbor, somebody in their gangs, somebody in their neighborhood, in their circle of life.
That`s who they confess to. Not nuns and priests and virgins and cops.
SHAMSHAK: You`re absolutely correct. Absolutely.
GRACE: Thank you. Now I want to go back to Marc Klaas, founder of KlaasKids Foundation.
Marc, where do we go from here? There have been multiple confessions now. We expect to have another one over the weekend on national TV in the Netherlands.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: It`s been very clear from the start of this case that there are at least two levels of justice in Aruba. And as a son of well privileged Joran Van Der Sloot - - given much more consideration than other people, I think you need a prosecutor who has the internal fortitude to take all of these pieces of information and do what`s necessary and prosecute this punk for the crime that he committed.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): I just touched her and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining me right now is Dr. Kent Holtorf, internal doctor, founder of Holtorf Medical Group. He`s joining us out of L.A.
Doctor, thank you for being with us.
DR. KENT HOLTORF, M.D., INTERNAL MEDICINE, FOUNDER OF HOLTORF MEDICAL GROUP: Hello.
GRACE: Doctor, just assuming, just going out on a limb and assuming that Joran Van Der Sloot told the truth in this confession regarding dumping Natalee`s body in a swampy area on the northern tip of the island of Aruba, what would the condition of the body be now?
HOLTORF: Well, the rate of decomposition of a body, post-mortem, has many factors. But if it was in a swamp, very hot and moist, it`s going to deteriorate rather quickly. So you`re looking at weeks to months.
There are some processes where actually the fat -- the fatty tissue can convert to a waxy-like substance but in general you`re going to look at basically skeletal remains at this point.
GRACE: But they would still be identifiable? Could you still get DNA from the bones?
HOLTORF: You can but it gets much more difficult. They usually go to records of the teeth -- of dental records at that point.
GRACE: Out to the lines --
HOLTORF: And you also have to realize --
GRACE: Go ahead, Doctor.
HOLTORF: When you find skeletal remains, people think of kind of the what they see in science class and also in Halloween.
GRACE: Yes. I like that.
HOLTORF: All of the connective tissue is gone, it`s just basically a pile of bones. And you think if it`s in the swamp, you know, and under mud, it`s going to be very difficult to find those.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Nicole in California, hi, dear.
NICOLE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy, love you, deer heart.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you for calling in. What`s your question?
NICOLE: My question is -- my head is about to pop off. This is --
GRACE: Mine too.
NICOLE: This detective in Aruba, is he serious when he said this second or third confession they investigated and found it not to be true? What I want to know is how. And please don`t say just by asking and waiting for --
GRACE: Nicole, I just asked, I just asked, could you even investigate the swamp, and he said no. And he said the reason they could not verify it is they asked Joran Van Der Sloot to come back and he wouldn`t do it. OK?
Now that would not hold up in America. There you have it.
A special thank you to Dave Holloway for being with us.
Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Andre Craig Junior, 24, New Haven, Connecticut, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart, Gold Star, gave up a scholarship at Rutgers to enlist. Loved basketball, mentoring children, dreamed of college and of being a state trooper.
Leaves behind parents Joyce and Andre Sr., three sisters, five brothers, widow, Shantea (ph), daughter, Taylor.
Andre Craig, Jr., American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. And happy birthday to one of our superstars, Liz. There she is. With two boys at home, she has just adopted a little boy from China who needed a mommy and daddy.
My sweet Liz with the big, big heart. Happy birthday, my love.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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