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Jobless Aid in Limbo Thanks to Senator; Politics Complicate Chile's Efforts after Earthquake; Hospitals Charging High Prices for Everyday Items.
Aired March 01, 2010 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ali Velshi. Hey, Ali.
ALI VELSHI, HOST: Hey, Brooke. Thanks so much for that.
As Brooke says, I'm Ali Velshi, and I'll be with you for the next two hours today and every weekday. I'm going to try and break down some of the issues that we cover. I'm going to try and give you a level of detail that will help you make important decisions about your voting, your spending, your safety and your security.
Here's what I've got on the rundown today. Up to 1 million people are bracing for an end to unemployment benefits, all because one U.S. senator wanted to make a point, and he used the system to make it. Why did he do it and what happens to the jobless Americans and their families who are counting on this money? Folks, this goes beyond politics, beyond balance sheets. And we're going to talk about it.
Also on the rundown, Chile digs out from a massive and deadly earthquake, one that was bigger than the Haiti quake but a lot less damaging. Still, hundreds are dead and rescuers are scrambling. Our reporters are in the heart of it.
Plus, making a miscarriage a crime. Utah lawmakers pass a law that could make having a miscarriage illegal if someone decide that the mom's recklessness caused it. The governor says he's looking at the specifics. So are we.
All right. You know when people say, "It's not the money; it's the principle"? Well, it's almost always the money. I want to break down a story that may well be about the principle. The trouble is, many thousands, tens of thousands, actually hundreds of thousands of American families desperately need the money.
It's federal unemployment aid, caught up in what is essentially a one-man filibuster on capitol hill. Republican Senator Jim Bunning of Kentucky single-handedly held up a vote to give the long-term jobless an extension of federal help. So when the deadline came and went yesterday, so did the safety net for people whose state benefits or current tier of federal benefits are running out.
Bunning says he merely wants Congress to pay for the benefits it offers instead of adding to the deficit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JIM BUNNING (R), KENTUCKY: If we can't find $10 billion somewhere for a bill that everybody in this body supports, we will never pay for anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Joining me with insights on all of this, my college in business news, Christine Romans, business correspondent and my co-host on "YOUR $$$$$"; and CNN national political correspondent Jessica Yellin.
Jessica, let's start with you. This is -- my Facebook page is just full of responses to this, virtually none in support of Senator Bunning. A few of them in support of the point he was trying to make, that we shouldn't be spending money we don't have. But most people saying he picked the wrong time and the wrong fight to make this point. What happened?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, two points. First of all, Jim Bunning takes positions like this consistently. He doesn't mind being unpopular when he's standing up for fiscal conservatism, and it's definitely enraged a lot of people.
The bottom line is this is a principle he believes in, and there's a way around it. Ali, so what we're expecting will happen is that the Senate will be able to vote tomorrow to reinstate those benefits, so it's really a one-day gap.
But the bottom line is, why are American people getting messed with in a way that banks never would? If the banks were in this kind of position, you can believe the Senate would get in session and vote over the weekend to make sure that there is no window when they are without money to lend to folks or to lend to each other. Definitely seems like the people in this country were getting the short end in this particular....
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very. And that's, I think, what gets people, Christine. There are ways, and a there are a lot of people who rightly believe that the government should be bringing in money that it spends. The president himself has talked about pay as you go. The principle is one that is worthy of discussion and attention. Could he have picked another place to make the point?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it is -- it is interesting that he's picking the place to make the point, Ali that, his point will affect up to 11.5 million people. Those are the number of people who are on unemployment benefits right now. I mean, that is a staggering number.
This isn't a small group of people who are very quickly able to turn around and get another job. I mean, the average length of unemployed is 211 days, more than 30 weeks. You know, we've been told for years to have three to six months of cash on hand to -- you know, for a rainy day fund. Forget it. No rainy-day fund we've ever prepared for is enough to help the people whoa re out of work right now. That jobless check is supporting literally hundreds of thousands of families.
We know that 1.2 million of them are going to end up in March and five million by June. This is state benefits. You get 26 weeks of state benefits. T Hat's paid for by -- by insurance, unemployment insurance. Right? But you know, that's a levy on the companies.
But federal benefits, up to 73 additional weeks. Some people are getting up to 99 weeks of unemployment benefits to help cover this time -- this period that is unlike anything we have seen since the early 1980s.
So you're absolutely right that he is picking a fight, a fiscal principle...
VELSHI: Right.
ROMANS: ... that is actually something that's felt in every town in America.
VELSHI: Yes. He's hitting some very weak people.
Here's the interesting part, Jessica. He says he's not opposed to this idea of unemployment benefits. There are some people, by the way -- and we've talked to them on this show -- who really are. They think unemployment benefits make people stay home and not find jobs, which is a ridiculous and specious argument. But that's not the one he's making. He's actually in favor of the -- of what would happen. He's just standing on principle here.
YELLIN: He's saying, "Pay for it. Let's do this, but let's find a way to pay for it. And if there's $10 billion, let's find where this $10 billion is going to come from to support all these funds."
Now Ali, to be fair, Bunning has been consistent in this kind of position. He voted -- you know, he blocked Bernanke. He was against the TARP bailout. So none of this is new. It's not like he gives favors to the banks he doesn't give to the people.
But I'd like to take this a little broader and make the point that the Democrats are also trying to score political points with this whole fight. They were the one who, without getting into details, divvied up the jobs bill to make everybody vote on the different aspects of it. So they broke out this one element, and sure enough this one element has a lot of political support. Unemployment benefits most people.
VELSHI: Why? Why did they do that? Why did the Democrats -- we've been focusing so long on the process and why so many people are frustrated by it, because regular folk don't understand. What was the thinking behind breaking up the unemployment bill -- the jobs bill and doing it this way?
YELLIN: One -- one thing was to make sure that at least the most popular parts get through. That piece that Reid broke out and had the first vote on, he wanted to make sure it gets through.
But they also wanted to make sure -- the Democrats want to make sure the Republicans had to walk the plank on every little aspect of the bill. So if Republicans voted no, it was clear to the people what they were voting no on.
So that Democrats effectively, in one sense...
VELSHI: Yes.
YELLIN: ... could score some political points, if the Republicans block it, on something exactly like these unemployment benefits. And sure enough today, Vice President Biden is out on the trail, and he is hitting the Republicans and Bunning for blocking these unemployment funds. So the Democrats are using this as a political bludgeon, too.
VELSHI: All right. Stay with us. We're going to continue this discussion in a minute. We're going to talk about how many people this actually affects and what the state of unemployment is in this country.
I should tell you we have reached out to Senator Bunning and have offered him an invitation to come on the show. I think he's traveling. But we have also offered that, if he's just able to call us and explain why he's done what he's done, we'd be happy to talk to him.
Stay with us. We'll continue this discussion about unemployment benefits and one senator's crusade to make sure a whole lot of people don't get them. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. We're going to have a little more of a conversation now on the nation's crippling unemployment problems with Jessica Yellin and Christine Romans, joining me from New York. We've been talking. The context here is Senator Bunning's holdout on passing an extension of unemployment benefits.
Christine, you said a little while ago, eleven and a half million people right now depend on unemployment benefits. That's not the number of people who are unemployed. There are some people who are unemployed...
ROMANS: Oh, yes.
VELSHI: ... who have fallen off the rolls, who aren't even getting unemployment benefits anymore.
ROMANS: Right. And when you look at the untapped potential labor in this market, you know, there's some economists like Bill Rogers at Rutgers who estimates that it's maybe 25 million or even higher, the people who have dropped out because they've been working -- they ran out of benefits. They've dropped out because they can't find a job or people who are doing a part-time jobs completely in a field unrelated -- they're qualified for something else -- simply because they're trying to get some income in.
So there are a lot of people. You know, this is a really staggering situation. I don't think people understand. I don't think people understand that there are 30-some million people in this country being fed by Food Stamps. There are 19 million in college. Think of that.
We have a government. As a government we are feeding and taking care of more people than we are educating to go on to improve and innovate and grow our economy. That's a situation that cannot go on for very much longer. And that's what these bills are designed to do, to be the stopgap measures to help people in the interim until the economy can heal.
VELSHI: Right. Jessica, the vice president, you were just saying, was out on the road. He's actually made some comments about Senator Jim Bunning.
YELLIN: Yes, he's saying that Bunning is standing in the way of what the recovery act, what the stimulus is trying to do. He said that he's trying to push us in the exact opposite direction, undo a lot of the work we're doing.
And he says you know, 2,000 folks who were working on transportation projects have been furloughed for now. COBRA benefits are on hold.
My larger point with this is that, Ali, folks are getting caught in the political football in Washington over whether we need to keep the deficit down or we need to spend to keep people safe and secure and the economy going. And it's a good discussion to have on principle and on theory...
VELSHI: Yes.
YELLIN: But the problem is, is that there's so much -- you're getting stuck in the theory right now. And Congress, this is exactly where we see Congress not working. Talk about broken government.
VELSHI: Yes. Yes, this is a prime example. Christine, you were telling me earlier on the phone, 11.5 million people on unemployment benefits. That's equal to the population of Ohio.
ROMANS: That's right. I mean, think of that. Ohio is a big state with a lot of big cities in it. Imagine if every single person in Ohio were out of work and getting unemployment benefits. That's how many people in the country are.
And you're absolutely right to point out, Ali, that the number is far, far worse than that. We -- we talk about a labor market that's healing, and we've slowed down on the big massive job losses and the like. But there still is this huge overhang, a sea of jobless people right now.
And when we talk about -- you and I talk about this a lot. It takes 100 to 150,000 new jobs every month to just to keep up with population growth.
VELSHI: Yes.
ROMANS: We're not creating any. We're still kind of losing jobs. It could take four, five, six, by my calculation seven years to eat through that overhang to get jobs for everybody who loft them and to absorb the new workers. I mean, seven years, I mean, that's ridiculous. There's going to be a lot of triaging of bills of American families, trying to figure out credit card, mortgage, car payment. Got to move schools. I mean, this is really a very, very serious, serious middle-class squeeze going on right now.
VELSHI: Yes. All right. Well, like I say, we've -- we've extended the invitation to Senator Bunning. I'm getting a lot of comments on Facebook, one from Heather, who says, "I'm not going to make a judgment on Bunning, because he hasn't fully explained himself. I do disagree with what he has said. The issues we, as a country, are struggling with are the survival of the middle class within our democracy."
A lot of questions like that. But we would like to hear the explanation for this.
Jessica, thank you for giving us a good part of it. At least we understand where he's -- where he's coming from. I still think it's misguided. But at least we have some sense of the conversation he's trying to have. Jessica, Christine, thanks for joining us. We'll talk to you again soon. OK.
All right. A frantic search for life. We've got the latest on rescue efforts amid the massive destruction of Chile's earthquake.
Plus politics, are they getting in the way? We're going to look at the roles of Chile's president and president elect.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Let me bring you up to speed on some of the headlines we're following here on CNN.
President Obama is trying to highlight the problem of high-school dropouts across America. In a speech about education today, he said kids dropping out of school undermine the country's future economic potential. And he's proposing $900 million in grants to help poorly- performing schools turn around.
In business news, AIG is selling off its Asian insurance operations to Prudential. The deal will net AIG about $35.5 billion in cash and stock. AIG's meant to use its proceeds to pay back some of that $180 billion in bailout money that it took from the government. In other words, your tax dollars.
And utility crews are working overtime in the northeast trying to get power back to the homes that have been in the dark since that big winter storm last week. Meantime, high winds in some areas are causing new power outages. Well, the rush is on to find survivors from Chile's massive -- massive earthquake. Here's the latest. Right now, rescuers are digging in the rubble of toppled buildings, searching for possible survivors in the hard-hit city of Concepcion. More than 60 have been pulled from the building that you can see right here. More people may be trapped inside.
Meantime, reported looting has broken out in Concepcion. Police have arrested dozens of people for violating a curfew image posed after a market was sacked. One resident says he feels abandoned by authorities.
The quake's widespread destruction has created a shortage of health-care personnel. At least six hospitals collapsed. Two others were severely damaged across the country. The 8.8 quake struck central Chile on Saturday killing at least 708 people. That's -- that's the number we know of now. Five hundred thousand homes were either badly destroyed or -- were either destroyed or badly damaged, and vast areas are without power and drinking water.
All right. So we want to get a little deeper into the story and some of the problems that authorities in Chile are having actually sorting out the problem and getting help to where it's needed. I want to go over to our Chile desk, staffed by our senior Latin American affairs editor, Rafael Roemer.
Rafael, there's a political issue in Chile that we may not understand very well that might be hampering of these rescue efforts. Tell me about it.
RAFAEL ROEMER, CNN LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: That's right. If it wasn't for the earthquake, right now the political -- the main story in Chile would be the political story, which is a transition of power that was supposed to take effect on March 11.
VELSHI: Right now.
ROEMER: As we know it right now, it's still going to happen.
VELSHI: That's the outgoing president and a new president coming in.
ROEMER: Michelle Bachelet goes out. Sebastian Pinera comes in. And as far as we understand, that they have been meeting very -- working closely together.
VELSHI: Right.
ROEMER: They had a meeting last night with cabinet members who have -- emergency personnel. And trying to really sort out what they're going to do, what's the best thing they can do at this moment to keep the country united and not to have a political fight in the middle of all this.
VELSHI: Well, what is their political relationship between the two? ROEMER: Absolutely none.
VELSHI: OK.
ROEMER: She comes from the left...
VELSHI: Right.
ROEMER: He comes from the right. She is moderate socialist. He is a billionaire tycoon.
VELSHI: Right.
ROEMER: So very different political persuasions. And after they met last night, we had a chance to hear what Mr. Pinera had to say. Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN PINERA, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF CHILE (through translator): It is not the time for conflict between government and opposition. We have to act nobly. And again, I want to ratify our willingness to work with the government to face the emergency and to say that we will also have to carry out a great effort of solidarity and cooperation to face the consequences of this earthquake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROEMER: And also, Ali, it's important to mention that they were political foes back in 2006. They ran against each other.
VELSHI: Right.
ROEMER: Bachelet -- Bachelet won...
VELSHI: Right.
ROEMER: ... and she became the first woman president of Chile. And now this time around, Pinera was able to win the election.
VELSHI: And one of the things we saw in Haiti was an absolute standstill when it came to government operations because of the amount of damage. What's the bureaucracy like in Chile? Is there at least some -- is there good functioning of the bureaucracy, of the operations of government in Chile?
ROMO: Absolutely. I was in Haiti two days after the earthquake happened. And I saw exactly what you're talking about. Not the case here in Chile.
Here in Chile, we saw the government respond to the emergency right away. We saw meetings. We saw three brigades of specialized personnel and search and rescue going to the affected area. So they responded right away.
VELSHI: OK, very good. We'll stay on top of this. I know as we speak your team here is getting more information in. We'll keep on bringing that to you. Rafael Romo, thanks very much for being with us.
All right. You want a toothbrush. You go to the drug store. You pay 3 bucks and you got yourself a toothbrush, unless you want one of those fancy electric kinds. And even that probably wouldn't cost you more than 100 bucks for the best. So why does a hospital charge $1,000 for a regular toothbrush? Elizabeth Cohen will tell us when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: These are some dark days in parts of the northeast of this country. Thousands of people are still without power because of last week's big winter storm. Let's bring in Jacqui Jeras. She's at the weather center. She's got more on this.
Hi, Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey there, Ali. Yes, a whole lot of people still suffering in the cold. The wind just knocked out a lot of power. And believe it or not, you know, that storm system still out there.
Take a look at some of these pictures from New Hampshire. At the height of the storm, there was more than a million people without power. As of today, it was just tens of thousands of people.
And there you can see trees have been downed and as well as those power lines. The governor of New Hampshire right now is saying that he thinks this is the quickest recovery, though, that they've ever had in terms of restoring the power. So those numbers will continue to go down and, hopefully, that's a little bit good news.
The one thing that could hamper them a little bit today is those winds, which continue to be strong. You can see the rain and snow from this storm finally beginning to dwindle and pull out of there. But some of the winds sustained in the 20s-plus miles per hour. And we're going to see gusts, 30, 40 miles per hour. So that could be enough to knock down a few more power lines or at least some large tree branches that could then, in turn, hit the power lines.
If you're suffering in the cold, your temperatures are in the 40s. So it could be worse. It's kind of tough to get much above 40 degrees when you've got such a solid snow pack. So that's something we're going to be dealing with.
Our next storm system across the southern plain states here. And there you can see the wet weather and then the cold weather wrapping around the backside of it. We're going to see some very heavy rain at times in the lower Mississippi River Valley. Expect to see rumbles of thunder and see a little bit of lightning with this. Rainfall totals could reach an inch.
Now, as the system is on the move into the Deep South overnight tonight and into tomorrow, it's likely going to help to kick up some of that colder air and wrap a little snow on the backside of it. Expect some accumulations into the Carolinas, even into north Georgia possibly. Atlanta is just kind of on that fringe. So we're hoping it will stay to the north. We could see a couple of inches. The ground temperature pretty warm. So not too much should stick around.
VELSHI: I've been here for a little over a month, Jacqui. I'm ready for anything in Atlanta. I thought weather was a little more consistent than it is. But I'm used to anything.
Good to see you, Jacqui.
JERAS: Not this year. You, too.
VELSHI: Always a pleasure to have you
Jacqui Jeras will be monitoring this afternoon's weather for us.
All right. Imagine spending 1,000 bucks for a toothbrush. No way. Right? That kind of thing doesn't happen. Believe it or not, it happens all the time. And this isn't a story that's specific to toothbrush. Our senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now.
She's starting a brand-new series called "Health Care: Prescription for Waste," and she starts off -- I was watching what you had done. It's kind of fascinating, the amount of money that you pay for normal things when you're in a hospital. Tell me about that.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You don't notice because you don't go through your bill line by line.
VELSHI: Right.
COHEN: But it's incredible. When we started going through bills, what we saw is that there were ridiculous charges for very simple items that you probably have in your own home. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: When you or I go shopping for a toothbrush, how much do we pay? Two, 3, maybe $4? Well, guess what one hospital once charged a patient for a toothbrush: $1,000. Can you believe it? A thousand dollars for a toothbrush.
And you know who ends up paying for that? You and I. We end up paying for it. It comes out of our pocket in one way or another.
And that's not the only crazy hospital cost I've run into. Come on. Come with me. And at the store, how much does a bottle of Tylenol cost? Ten dollars for 100 pills. We know of someone who at the hospital was charged $140 for one Tylenol. Can you believe it? A hundred and 40 dollars for this.
Now here's a box of disposable gloves. When you buy them here at this store, they come out to 24 cents a pair. But I know of a hospital that charged $53 for a pair of gloves. That's right, $53 for a pair of disposable gloves. What the heck is going on here?
So I'm here in the home office of a medical billing advocate. This is Cindy Holtzman. And she helps people cope through all of these crazy charges, and she has all sorts of examples.
I've got to tell you, Cindy, this is one of my favorite ones. This is just like a little alcohol prep swab. We've all had these. How much did a hospital charge for these once?
CINDY HOLTZMAN: Twenty-three dollars apiece.
COHEN: Twenty-three dollars, for this little tiny piece of cotton.
HOLTZMAN: And on one bill there were 44 of them. Becomes very expensive.
COHEN: Oh, my goodness. But this isn't even the craziest thing you've ever seen. Tell me about one of your crazier charges.
HOLTZMAN: Well, recently, I had somebody that was charged for 41 IV bags when she went to the ER for a two-hour visit.
COHEN: Oh, yes, you heard that right. A woman went to the emergency room with a migraine headache, and they gave her one bag of saline. And then they charged her for 41 bags of saline, to the tune of $4,182.
Now, the really crazy thing about this is that her insurance company actually paid this bill. They didn't even question it.
So why did her insurance company pay for this when it was obviously wrong?
HOLTZMAN: There's not many people working at these companies anymore. They're very busy, and usually any kind of bill that's under $100,000 they don't look at the details.
COHEN: So they just write a check?
HOLTZMAN: They just write a check.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Now, Ali, we called the hospital that had that $4,000 overcharge.
VELSHI: Yes.
COHEN: They've since corrected it, but they didn't want to talk to us on TV, and the insurance company that paid for that erroneous charge, they said they couldn't comment.
VELSHI: Wow. OK. What -- so what's the point here? They're charging a lot of money for some things so that others who can't pay for it are getting the benefit of it? What's the bottom line? COHEN: Well, the bottom line here is that sometimes it's erroneous. Sometimes they just...
VELSHI: Right.
COHEN: ... goof, like they put 41 instead of 1.
VELSHI: Right.
COHEN: Other times I've hard people use the argument, "These charges look high because we have a lot of uninsured people coming in...
VELSHI: Right.
COHEN: "... and so we charge people with insurance more...
VELSHI: OK.
COHEN: "... and that helps sort of settle things out."
But the bottom line is there are, you know, $1,000 for a toothbrush. It's hard to rationalize that in any situation.
VELSHI: Yes. Well, what -- what do you -- what are you supposed to think about this if you are insured? In other words, if you're insured and you're getting these crazy bills but your insurance company is paying for it...
COHEN: I think most people think, "What do I care?"
VELSHI: Yes.
COHEN: Right? I mean, your insurance company is footing the bill. What do you care if there are a thousand errors?
And the reason why you should care -- I know you know this -- is that all of our premiums are going up.
VELSHI: Right.
COHEN: As medical bills go up because of these ridiculous mistakes...
VELSHI: Right.
COHEN: ... our premiums go up. We've all seen premiums go up. And that's one of the major reasons why?
VELSHI: But can you call them up and say, "Why did you charge me $1,000 for a toothbrush?" Or is it -- that just the way it is?
COHEN: No, you can call them. For example, the woman who was charged for 41 bags of saline...
VELSHI: Yes. COHEN: ... she was a good citizen, and even though she wasn't paying for it, she said, "What the -- you've got-to-do something." And they fixed it immediately.
VELSHI: All right. Well, very good. Thank you for that.
And this is a new series you've got: "Health Care: Prescription for Waste." We'll happy to see you as regularly as we do on this show.
COHEN: Right. We'll see you tomorrow.
VELSHI: All right. Reconciliation, how can that be a bad word? It seems warm and fuzzy. It seems like people on other sides of an issue, on two sides of an issue, getting together to work it all out.
Well, reconciliation is the method the Democrats are trying to use to get health care reform through the Senate. And when I come back, I'm going to explain to you why this is causing such a ruckus.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: We've obviously all been following this health care reform debate, including the summit held last week with the president and other parties who were involved in the health care debate. And the term reconciliation came up over and over again. Harry Reid the Senate leader is talking about -- the majority leader -- talking about using reconciliation to get the bill passed. To get through the Senate.
Let's explain what that means. Now that the Democrats don't have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate they might turn to something called reconciliation. That's where the Senate takes the bill and then tinkers with it a little bit, and then decides to pass it using reconciliation. Now, teconciliation only needs 51 votes to pass. You can't filibuster -- which means one person can't hold it up by continuing to say no to something. It was originally designed to deal with budget matters to reconcile legislation with budget rules that controlled spending.
Let me tell what you reconciliation has been used for in the past. Back in 1989, it was used for the Medicare overhaul for physician payments. (CLEARS THROAT) Pardon me -- in 1996, it was used for a welfare overhaul, and in 2001 and 2003, it was used for the Bush tax cuts.
I want to tell you a little bit about what Senator Robert Byrd had to say about this. He's the West Virginia Democratic senator. He authored part of the reconciliation rule back in 1976. He's written a letter to the president about the use of reconciliation for the health care bill, and it says, "As one of the authors of the reconciliation process, I can tell you that the ironclad parliamentary procedures it authorizes were never intended for this purpose. Reconciliation was intended to adjust revenue and spending levs in order to reduce deficits. It was not designed to cut taxes, it was not designed to create a new climate and energy regime and certainly not to restructure the entire health care system."
So, Senator Byrd is warning the president this is not what he intent of reconciliation was for. Senator Lamar Alexander, who you saw discussing and debating with the president last week at the health care summit -- he's a Republican from Tennessee. Here's what he had to say about the Democrats using reconciliation. He says it would be -- actually, let me just tell you. Why don't you play it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R), TENNESEE: It would be a political kamikaze mission for the Democratic party if they jam this through after the American people have been saying look, we're trying to tell you in every way we know how, in elections and surveys and town hall meetings, we don't want this bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: He's calling it political kamikaze for the Democratic party if they use reconciliation to jam the bill through. That's how the Republicans are characterizing the Democrats. The Democrats have a different response. Here's speaker Nancy Pelosi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: Let me say this, the bill can be bipartisan even though the votes might not be bipartisan because they have made their imprint on this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right. Let me show you who has used reconciliation if the past. It's been used 22 times in the past. Under a Republican-controlled Senate, it was used 16 times. Under a Democratic-controlled Senate, it was used six times.
So, the bottom line is everybody has used reconciliation in the past. Whether or not this is the right use for it, well, that's s for some folks on Capitol Hill to debate. We'll stay on top of this and everything to do with the health care debate right here on CNN.
Okay, when we come back, Team Canada beats Team USA to win the gold. That was the scene.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. I'm walking a fine line here. I grew up in Canada. I work here in the United States. Look, I know what it is to love two countries, but I got to give a shout out to my peeps. The Canadian men's hockey team beat the U.S. 3-2 in overtime to win Olympic gold. Canada's 14 gold medals are the most gold ever for any country in a Winter Olympics.
But America, did very well. Thirty-seven medals won overall by Team USA are the most ever for a country in the Winter Games. So Canada has the most gold. The U.S. has the most medals. Mark McKay is in Vancouver, going to wrap it up for us -- what a great two weeks it was -- in the next hour.
All right. Let me check some of the top stories for you right now.
A million-plus people unemployed for the long-term are taking a major hit. They can't apply for an extension of benefits because Republican Senator Jim Bunning is preventing the Senate from extending the benefits till June. He says pay for the $10 billion measure first. Other Republicans vow to pass the extension this week.
In New York, Governor David Paterson says he will not step down early. Last week, he gave up his bid to run for another term. That decision came amid allegations one of Paterson's top aides was involved in a domestic violence incident, and that state police and the governor himself pressured the woman to keep quiet.
In Chile, rescuers are searching for survivors from Saturday's massive 8.8 earthquake. More than 700 people were killed. Crews in the hard-hit city of Concepcion are focusing on one toppled building where they've heard knocking from people trapped inside. More than 60 survivors have already been pulled from that building.
Looking to religion now. Leaders from some of the largest African-American churches are coming together to help young people. We'll talk to the group's organizers next.
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VELSHI: A lot of people seek solace in religion, but leaders from the largest black Methodist churches in America are meeting to seek not just solace but solutions. They're calling it the great gathering. The goal is to find answers to the problems facing many young African-Americans. The three denominations meeting for the first time together are the African Methodist Episcopal or AME, the African Methodist Episcopal Zion, or AMEZ, and the Christian Methodist Episcopal, or CME, churches.
Joining us for more on this meeting is the chairman of the Great Gathering, Dr. Staccato Powell. He joins us from Columbia, S.C. where the gathering is taking place today through Wednesday.
Dr. Powell, thank you for joining us. We appreciate you being here. Tell me about this event. What is it, who's coming, how big is it going to be?
DR. STACCATO POWELL, CHAIRMAN, GREAT GATHERING: Well, this is a major historic moment in the lives of both the AME, CME and AME Zion churches. We're expecting 10,000 to 12,000 people here in Columbia this week. As a matter of fact, I just left the Colonial Life Arena and the people were standing in line cuing up in order to register.
We're coming to set the agenda for the future for all three churches and previewing what I'm calling "the new church." The new church not only from an organic standpoint but from the standpoint of our initiatives being transparent and transformative. We are -- intentional about addressing the plight of the African-American male in this country. How we're going to come together to stem the tide of the incarceration rate and increase the matriculation rate in institutions of higher learning.
VELSHI: You're talking about incarceration. Your materials say you're talking about drug abuse, you're talking about unemployment, you're talking about high school dropout rates. What influence can the church have in dealing with these issues? What exactly can the church do better in trying to stem these numbers?
POWELL: Well, the church speaks with the voice of authority that no other sector of society has. We stand on a historic principles, not just based on our institutional histories, but that predates us rooted firmly into our religious faith based on the principles of Jesus Christ. I think we instill in young African-American males and all of society a core value system that you cannot do arrive from legislative initiatives or social action only --
VELSHI: Reverend, Dr. Powell, let me just ask you this. I was just reading a Pew study released today --
POWELL: Yes.
VELSHI: -- that says one in four Americans age 18 to 29 say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion. So, how do you take the values that you just talked about and inculcate them in youth because ultimately, that's what you have to do. You want to help everybody of every age, but in reality you've got to get these problems figured out when people are young.
POWELL: Absolutely, absolutely. The way we do it in youth is we've got to somehow strike a chord in the entire family fabric, so that the adults begin to return to church in increasing numbers than we've seen in the past.
The Pew study is absolutely correct. However, I would venture to say given the difficulties and some of the atrocities we're seeing in society now, people will again return to those values that help them to get to the point they are now in life. And when they start thinking about those, they will ultimately remember that it was because of their faith foundation that has caused them to be catapulted to the place where they are now and don't want the same for their children.
POWELL: I don't mean to compare you. We've been talking about these an grassroots conservative movements like the TEA Partiers, appealing to voters who feel like they're not being listened to or not being communicated with in a certain way.
Let's just use that example for youth. They gather information. We in the news business know this. They gather information in a different way than we're used to delivering it in the past. That's the same thing with the church, right? These kids have to be connected with in a different way. What can these churches coming to the as they are this week, what kind of new message can you put out there or what new way of delivering that message can work to appeal to families and young people? POWELL: I think the message is, first of all, we're being transparent. We're not trying to cover up the issues that are plaguing our society. Not only are we being transparent. I think the differences now, we're going to be transformative.
In Mark 16, Jesus talks about "these signs shall follow them that believe. They will be able to lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." We're living in a sick society. And the church has to take its divine authority to lay hands on this society and watch them recover.
There's not a parent in America that does not want the best for their children. The church offers an opportunity to do that, and our collective voices blended together will speak volumes for what we can and what we will do.
We're not going to just do this through a happenstance position. But we're going to be proactive in our posture. Make sure that what we do and say is not only aggressive, but it's going to be crisp and concrete course of action that will confront the challenges that face us.
VELSHI: All right. We'd be interested in hearing about what comes out of the Great Gathering. We'll keep in touch with you --
POWELL: Thank you. Thank you.
VELSHI: Reverend Dr. Staccato Powell is the chair of the Great Gathering taking place in Colombia, South Carolina.
All right. When we come back, we're going to take another look at our Stimulus Desk. They're looking hard at what Vice President Joe Biden says every state has met their deadline to commit their stimulus dollars to specific highway projects. We're going to take a look at the big picture when we get back.
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VELSHI: Okay. So, maybe you're wondering if a road or a highway patch near you will get stimulus money to be fixed. You can stop wondering right now. Josh tells me the decision --
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are all made. It's done.
VELSHI: -- all made.
LEVS: In fact, this is pretty big news today. Out of the vice president's office today, we just found this out. When we hear questions from viewers, one of biggest things they always ask us is, what about the roads near me? They hear about massive stimulus, right? $862 million --
VELSHI: Right. Most of which are not --
LEVS: Most of it's benefits.
VELSHI: -- going to things with shovels, right.
LEVS: That's right, yes. It's not even getting close to that. We have a breakdown for you. The vast majority of this has not been spent. $862 billion total. And in the next screen, you'll see how much -- have a hundred-something going to tax cuts and $179 billion paid to all sorts of projects. But just $31 billion on specific projects.
So, here's the basic idea. This is what's happened today. The vice president says --
VELSHI: He's in charge. The president put him in charge of this.
LEVS: Right. He comes out and says every single state has now, as of today, decided every road project it's going to do. There is no more hedging, humming and hawing. If you want to know if that road near you is going to get fixed, it's now official. Every state has decided how to spend every dollar of the road money, which is $26 billion total.
Now, when you think about it, that's a really big deal for so many people who want those shovel-ready projects to happen. It also means there will be a lot of disappointment now, because people holding out hope for the road, bridge, whatever's busted near you, your state has decided, which means you can find out now if it's your road or not.
VELSHI: And have we seen if this is posted or will it probably take some time?
LEVS: It's not. Every state will post the full list and we'll get it. We know this is probably the biggest question we get from people. What about the road near me? It's done. Your stimulus determined where it will go and where it won't
VELSHI: So the issue here is two-fold. One is people will know whether their road is getting fixed or if a road is coming to where they do business. And the other thing, of course, is they know where the construction jobs will be going.
LEVS: The jobs to do all the work. If you're living in the area and want a job on a project, that's great. Also, that means the money will be spent. The majority hasn't been spent, as we said. So now all these projects listed, they actually have to do them. Which means you know the money will be spent, and the states can say, okay, we have a plan for this massive pile of money we have.
VELSHI: Okay, I'm glad you're staying on -- Mark, do me a favor. Does this look like you went into my cabinet my closet, took my stuff? That looks like a Velshi-type of shirt-and-tie combination.
LEVS: Well, now that you're going to keep me on and talk about shirts and ties, now we have to show my Twitter page.
VELSHI: Oh, okay. (CROSSTALK)
LEVS: I'd really like doing the competition with you guys, but just look at the numbers. I'm slightly behind you --
VELSHI: Twitter.com/joshlevscnn.
LEVS: If I get a thousand more, I'll be ahead of you. Come on, people.
VELSHI: All right, let's do it. You learn a lot following Josh. Good to see you, my friend.
All right. We're going to continue our coverage. Listen, the war on terror often turns a battleground over interrogation, especially in the case of the alleged Christmas Day bomber. Our Drew Griffin is on that case. He's got new information. You're going to want to hear it.
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VELSHI: Interrogating terror suspects is a process that's shrouded in secrecy. It's also subject to seemingly endless speculation, second guessing and criticism. You can also throw in a heavy dose of politics. Nothing exemplifies that more than the case of Umar Abdulmutallab. He is the alleged Christmas Day airline bomber. Here's Drew Griffin from our Special Investigations Unit.
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DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The criticism began almost as soon as the FBI arrived to interview Umar Abdulmutallab, the Nigerian who tried to ignite explosives in his underwear on a Detroit-bound plane Christmas Day, conservatives saying the Nigerian should have been handed over to the military, instead of the FBI, some even hinting he should have been forced to talk.
KARL ROVE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BUSH: We had a chance to take this guy, sweat him, and find out the chain of command up the line that activated him, trained him, prepared him, equipped him, and sent him into action.
GRIFFIN: The FBI won't talk, but former FBI officials will, like CNN contributor and FBI special agent in charge of foreign operations Tom Fuentes. He says the idea of turning him Umar Abdulmutallab to military interrogators instead of the FBI is just political theater.
TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: The military is the greatest war- fighting machine that is known to man, ever. But they are not the greatest investigative agency known to man. And they don't have a demonstrated, successful history of the investigation and gathering of evidence, preparation of a prosecution.
GRIFFIN: Fuentes points to one case, the interrogation of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed by the military, in custody since March of 2003, water-boarded 183 times. The so-called mastermind of 9/11 claimed to be Osama bin Laden's right-hand man, knowledgeable of upcoming plots.
Fuentes says it was just words from a man tired of being tortured.
FUENTES: What he did give us and what we did know, much of it was false. And, also, he failed to identify other al Qaeda operatives throughout Europe -- and they're rampant in virtually throughout every capital of Europe -- throughout Africa, the Middle East, and Asia. And he had been in many of those countries.
GRIFFIN: For Umar Abdulmutallab, the FBI took a different approach.
Stephen Miller, a former terrorism task force member and Department of Defense investigator, says the immediate emergency demanding gaining Abdulmutallab's trust, not threatening him with enhanced interrogations.
STEPHEN MILLER, NCCU DEPARTMENT OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: Immediate intelligence, there's a shelf life on this. And immediately they needed to know, was he the only one on that plane who had a bomb?
GRIFFIN: Fifteen minutes after arriving at a Michigan hospital, Abdulmutallab was met by two of the top counterterrorism interrogators in the nation.
CNN has learned the lead investigator heads the Detroit joint terrorism task force. He is a 15-year Vietnam veteran and a former senior executive in charge of counterterrorism, at his side, an FBI agent specializing in investigating terror suspects who had twice been to Iraq and Afghanistan to interview militants in the field.
According to Fuentes, it worked. In 50 minutes, with no Miranda rights read, the agents determined Abdulmutallab was lying when he said another bomb was on board the plane, was also lying when he said others were in the air. It was only after Abdulmutallab stopped talking, after a five-hour surgery and recovery that agents read him his Miranda rights and offered him a lawyer. But the real value of his information came later. Sources say Abdulmutallab talked about his orders from Yemen and revealed as many as 20 others were being trained to be suicide bombers. And he gave the names of the terrorists in Yemen who trained him.
TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Over the course of time, as the rapport was building up with the FBI agents doing the interviewing, he started to stop lying as much and give more accurate information.
GRIFFIN: FBI agents then went to Nigeria to ask his family to help persuade the young man to cooperate. It worked. But the political sniping over how the case was handled goes on and that has to put Abdulmutallab's family which tried to help the U.S. in danger. It was a week, most likely from the White House, that members of the family had been secretly flown to Detroit to persuade Abdulmutallab to talk. It was a broken promise of anonymity.
(on camera): But I think that was a mistake.
FUENTES: It was a mistake. They are in danger. And Al Qaeda does have a presence in Nigeria.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Even after it was announced Abdulmutallab was cooperating, providing actionable intelligence, Republicans critics were not persuaded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll put him into military custody. That way we could have had more thorough investigations.
GRIFFIN (on camera): These experienced investigators and other counterterrorism investigators we talked to said there is no one right way to do this. They said you have to rely on the experience of investigators in the field who have the suspect in front of them to determine whether or not to pressure, threaten, coerce or, like in this case, gain the trust of the suspect in order to get the information you need. A decision they say needs to be made in the interrogation room, not in Washington.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.
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