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Body Found in San Diego; Interview with Jerry Brown; DNC v. RNC

Aired March 2, 2010 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, Jerry Brown exclusive -- his first interview since announcing his run for the governor of California.

And why does he want the job he left almost three decades ago?

And then, DNC Chairman Tim Kaine, RNC Chairman Michael Steele face-off right here -- health care, jobs, big stories.

And then, knives and rope from the Charles Manson murders; O.J. Simpson's, "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit" glove; RFK's bloody shirt from the night he was assassinated -- rarely seen evidence from crimes that shocked the nation all revealed.


We begin with breaking news.

Human remains were found today in San Diego, likely those of a teenage girl, Chelsea King, who went missing last Thursday. Police arrested 30-year-old John Albert Gardner III Sunday in connection with her disappearance. He is a registered sex offender.

We'll get the latest from Adrian Moore, a reporter with KFMB in San Diego.

What is the story -- Adrienne?

ADRIENNE MOORE, REPORTER, KFMB-TV: Yes, Larry, good evening to you.

Well, sheriff's deputies came out around 1:00 and discovered what they believe to be the remains of Chelsea King, 17-year-old Poway High School student here in the area.

They made this grisly discovery just about 10 miles off the shore of Lake Hodges. We understand that a dive team spotted her off the shore, again, around 1:00 this afternoon. It was on the southeastern side of the lake. This has been an extensive search. It's been a six day long search here. And, again, investigators say this is certainly not the outcome that they were hoping for -- certainly not the outcome that Chelsea King's family was hoping for.

This has been such a -- an intense search. It's been a multi- agency search. I've been covering these stories for several years now and I've got to say, I've never seen so many people gather together and band together so quickly as they did for this investigation.

Now, Larry, you did mention the arrest of 30-year-old John Gardner. We do understand, in talking with investigators, that he's not cooperating with investigators at this point. They didn't want to talk about if he was able to provide any information or not in order to help locate who they believe is Chelsea at this hour.

We understand that an official confirmation on whether or not this is Chelsea King will come in about the next day or so -- Larry.

KING: Mark -- thanks, Adrienne.

Marc Klaas, the father of Polly Klaas, the founder of the Klaas Federation, is with us from San Francisco.

You -- you worked on this, did you not?

You -- you knew the parents?

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Oh, I don't know the parents, Larry. I've spoken to the parents on the phone on a couple of occasions, most recently today, not long before the announcement. I know that they were very hopeful. They were -- they -- they -- they very strong in their search for their daughter.

But there have also been some many other high profile cases that I have been involved in down in the San Diego area. And I think that the response is a reflection of the -- of the community's putting its foot down and saying we're just not going to take this anymore, because as the reporter just said, it was absolutely extraordinary how thousands of people came out in response to this girl's disappearance.

KING: Why, Marc, do these stories, 95 percent -- 99 percent of the time, end tragically?

KLAAS: Well, they end tragically because, for some reason, society continues to take known sexual predators and put them back out onto the streets.

What we do know, Larry, is that never in the history of the world has a psychopath been cured nor has a sexual predator nor has a pedophile been cured. Yet we give them minimum sentences and regurgitate them back out onto the street, knowing full well that something like this will occur.

That's what happened in Polly's case. That's what happened in this case. And I wouldn't be surprised if they tied this character, Gardner, to other cases, such as the Amber Dubois case, which has been going on very near there for the last year.

KING: Well, of course, we don't want to find Mr. Gardner guilty before a court does or before he might plead to this.

Would you -- what would you do with the sexual predators, never let them out?

What's -- what's your answer?

KLAAS: Well, you know, remember Jessica Lunsford's situation some years ago?

There was a huge social response to that, as her father and I and others...

KING: Right.

KLAAS: -- went around the country and demanded 25 year sentences -- 25 to life sentences for first sexual offenses, particularly these violent offenses against children. And, in fact, some form of that was passed in, I believe, 38 states. Yet states like California and others failed to implement the -- the -- the full -- the full -- they failed to fully implement Jessica's Law.

And we see this kind of thing being repeated time and time again. You know as well as I do, Larry, that California is on the verge of letting almost 30,000 offenders back out onto the streets because we can't provide them with adequate health care.

How ironic is that, in these times?

KING: We've not heard the last of this.

Thanks, Marc.

And thanks, Adrienne.

Marc Klaas, father of the late Polly Klaas.

We'll have more on this tomorrow night, by the way.

Jerry Brown is here. He was California governor before. He wants the job again. He's going to tell us why, right after the break.


KING: After months of hints and speculation, Attorney General Jerry Brown has officially joined the race to succeed Arnold Schwarzenegger as governor of California. He launched the campaign with a three minute, 17-second video on his Web site. He joins us here in L.A.



KING: Two terms you served.

Why do you need this?

BROWN: Yes. Well, I don't need it. But the state's in deep trouble and the next governor needs the preparation, the know-how and the knowledge to fix this state. And that's what I can offer. And that's why I'm doing it.

KING: Is this state in a failed state?

BROWN: It's not a -- it's failing, but it has not failed completely, by any means.

Our wealth creation last year was over $1.5 trillion. So we -- we've got a lot of resources. We've got the creativity. But we've got to stop that bickering -- that poisonous partisanship in Sacramento. I think they need someone in there with the skills and the knowledge and, maybe more importantly, insider's knowledge, but an outsider's mind. And that's exactly what I can bring to this job.

KING: How do you assess General -- Governor Schwarzenegger?

BROWN: I think the governor has been a bold thinker. He's led the country in terms of climate change and dealing with global warming. He's put a lot of stuff out on the budget.

But he's run into the buzz saw of partisan -- partisan -- partisan bickering up there. And there was a time when the Republicans used to work with Democrats. And I don't know all the things that contributed to it, but I really believe that if the governor would just focus on knocking heads together and listening to both sides, I think we'd get a lot done.

KING: Do you want his support?

BROWN: Sure. I'd like -- I'd like everybody who I could get. I think the governor has learned a lot. One thing, you can't be governor without taking a lot of, you know, slings and arrows, but out of that, learning a heck of a lot about how our state works.

KING: Will you live in the mansion?

You didn't the last time.

BROWN: I didn't. I rented a little apartment and paid it with my own paycheck but...

KING: You think you'd do the same?

BROWN: Well, I have a house in Oakland now and I'm married. So I've got a wonderful wife so I've got to...

KING: Oh, that's right. You were single.

BROWN: I've got to check with her this time.

KING: All right. The GOP candidate will either be former eBay CEO Meg Whitman or state insurance commissioner, Steve Poizner.

Do you have a preference who you'd rather face?

BROWN: No. I think the Republicans ought to pick their own candidate then I'll run against either one. KING: Wouldn't Whitman be formidable with all that money?

BROWN: Well, anybody who wants to spend $150 million buying the airwaves is going to be formidable. I would never underestimate this.

But at the end of the day, Californians are going to say is this real?

How is this going to affect me?

And let's compare it with the other candidate. So I think people have a lot of common sense. And over a campaign of seven or eight months, they'll discern the truth and get to the essence.

KING: Could you end the bickering?

Could you make the parties come together, as once happened in California?

BROWN: I think we can -- I think we can push people together. I've -- I've done this. I've listened. I think the governor can't run all around the country, can't visit foreign countries. I think we have to sit down, starting not next year, but right after the election, and get in the Republican leaders and all the members of the legislature.

The way the budget works now is they have four leaders from -- two from each party. And they do it.

That doesn't work. You've got to get all 120 legislatures in the room, day after day and month after month, keep the focus on solving that budget deficit.

KING: Do you have a primary opponent?

BROWN: Not yet, but, you know, there's a week to go, so hopefully not.

KING: All right. We just did a terrible story about a young girl, 17 years old, and the accused, a predator, who gets out of prison.

Will you have a stand on that?

There are, we're told, 38 states where you have to serve 25 years minimum if you're convicted.

BROWN: We have -- depending upon what the offense is -- and there is a range of offen -- sexual offenses, from the most serious to -- to lower -- lesser offenses. But I can tell you this. If we had a more indeterminate sentence where it was five to life for most of these crimes, then a good, insightful parole board could keep people locked up for life.

When they are let out, we now have a law that requires a geopositioning satellite -- a GPS. They should be kept track of. And we need the parole manpower focused on these dangerous people and not generally applied across the board, which really wastes the limited talent we have.

KING: You're an attorney general.

Are we forceful enough in that area?

BROWN: I think we're not as focused as we need to be. So I mean you have to take the high risk that people have shown a propensity to do something very odd and keep on -- keep them in jail, if they ever get out, keep on them. And there are others that are -- that are under some of the same laws, but they're not as dangerous.

And I think you've got to focus on -- on what you feel to be. And we have evidence-based instruments to -- to separate the most serious from the less serious. And that's the way we've got to go.

KING: Are you going to ask the president to campaign for you?

BROWN: I would ask him. Sure. I do think I'm -- well, I want to say this. I'd like the president, certainly, to campaign for me. But I'm running an independent campaign. I think what we need is not more partisanship, but a governor who's going to listen to both parties, take the best and get the job done.

KING: Are you separating yourself from (INAUDIBLE)?

BROWN: No, I'm not separate -- well, I'm separating myself from politics as usual. And I want people to know, whether it's the legislature, the Congress or the president, yes, I welcome all the support I can get.

But at the end of the day, we need an independent minded governor who will not stand on party dogma, but will listen honestly to the other side.

KING: What's it going to cost, Jerry?

BROWN: Well, that's a good -- the -- my -- one opponent says they're going to spend $150 million, another $50 million. I've raised $13 million. We have a long way to go and I hope that people -- I think we've got to activate the grassroots. We'll have far less, but we'll be focused. It will be an authentic campaign. And people will have enough information to make a choice. And that's all I can ask.

KING: Thanks for coming by.

We'll see a lot of you.

BROWN: I look forward to it.

KING: Jerry Brown, the attorney general of California, has thrown his hat into the ring.

Michael Steele and Tim Kaine are here, chairmen of their respective parties, debating the day's big issues. You're not going to see it anywhere else, so stay right here.


KING: Lots of things to get into with the chairmen of both major parties.

At the DNC studios in their headquarters in Washington, Tim Kaine, chairman of that committee and former governor of Virginia.

At RNC headquarters in Washington, Michael Steele. He is the chairman of the RNC and the former lieutenant governor of Maryland.

Let's start first with Tim.

What do you think of -- of Jerry Brown's candidacy?

TIM KAINE, CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I was excited to see Jerry go ahead and make the announcement today, Larry. Obviously, somebody with a long political career; well-known to Californians; a reformer; somebody who's got high name recognition and high approvals; currently is attorney general, fighting the -- you know, doing the lord's work, fighting against the insurance companies and some of these outrageous premium increases in California.

I think he'll be a great gubernatorial candidate.

KING: Michael, let's get into some things real current. A short time ago, Senator Bunning announced he's ending his holdup of that stopgap legislation to extend jobless benefits. While it lasted, it was quite a drama.

Was there a fallout on your party?

MICHAEL STEELE, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CHAIRMAN: I don't think so, Larry. I think that Senator Bunning laid out a very principled argument. And it was a principled argument consistent with what the Democrats and the president have been saying they wanted to do from the very beginning -- let's not spend more than we take in.

This whole argument around pay-go and wanting to get pay-go passed.

So I think the senator held a very strong, principled position. We're glad that they've reached an appropriate compromise in the Senate and we can move forward now and, hopefully, keeping a watchful eye on the people's money.

At the end of the day, everybody knows that we do not have the cash on hand to -- to spend on programs and on new dollars in a way that's irresponsible. The American people want us to check on that. And I think that this compromise will hopefully hold and we'll get to that point.

KING: Tim, Republicans...

KAINE: Larry, I've got to disagree with... KING: Republicans -- Tim, I have a question.

Republican Senator Susan Collins said that Bunning was hurting the party and hurting the American people.

What do you think?

KAINE: Well, Larry, I completely agree with Senator Collins. This was not just a minor little matter, this was Senator Bunning and the Republican leadership using the same kind of obstruction we've seen them use all year.

And here's what they accomplished. They threw 500,000 Americans off health insurance -- the COBRA program that they were involved in. They threw 400,000 hard-hit unemployment -- unemployed Americans off unemployment insurance. They stopped construction projects in their tracks -- nearly $50 million of projects in Virginia that were employing people. And they led to the furlough of 2,000 federal transportation workers.

This was a -- you know, the kind of thing we've come to see. They're working on a little procedural game. And it's not about spending. These are the same guys that voted against the pay-go legislation that the president proposed. They were pulling a stunt -- an obstructionist stunt. And it cost hundreds of thousands of Americans unemployment benefits or health insurance.

KING: How do you respond to that, Michael?

STEELE: The -- there's a lot of drama around what the chairman just said and -- and it makes for great theater in -- in Washington. But the reality of it is none of that was going to happen at the end of the day, that, you know, all of these things were just going to come to a screeching halt.

At the end of the day, we were going to get to the point we needed to get to. And there's two -- actually, two points. One, a recognition that this administration consistently and continually wants to spend money that we do not have, regardless of the consequences. And -- and you're talking, you know, solving a small problem here to create a bigger one later on, if you're not mindful of where the money's coming from and how you're going to spend it.

And, two, and I think most importantly, is recognizing, again, consistent with the first point, that right now we're on the top of watching a $14 trillion debt grow. We're on top of spending money on a health care program that the American people don't want. We are now going to be talking about a little bit later on in the year about Cap- and-Trade and Card Check...

KAINE: Well, don't...

STEELE: And other programs...

KAINE: -- don't filibuster, Michael...

STEELE: -- that are going to expand the growth of government...

KAINE: Don't filibuster on the...

STEELE: And Gov...

KAINE: -- unemployment issue.

STEELE: Governor, Governor, let me finish my point and then you can have at it.

KAINE: OK, good.

STEELE: The reality of it is -- the reality of it is, very simply, this administration -- and I don't know, Governor, if -- Chairman, if you laugh or cry in the car on the way to do these interviews, because the stuff you've got to try to shill and sell to the American people...

KAINE: You're...

STEELE: I don't envy you...

KAINE: Don't filibuster, Michael...

STEELE: -- because it's very hard...

KAINE: Don't filibuster.

STEELE: -- to tell people...

KAINE: Don't filibuster.

STEELE: -- to look people in the eye...

KAINE: -- this is about...

STEELE: And tell them that we don't.

KAINE: -- unemployed Americans...

STEELE: -- we don't have the money.


KING: One at a time.

STEELE: We're going to continue to spend.

KAINE: Yes, well, Larry...

KING: One at a time.

KAINE: -- what I would say...


KING: All right, Tim, let me get a break, Tim.


KING: Let me get a break and then we'll pick up with Tim Kaine...

KAINE: OK. Great.

KING: -- and get into health care.

By the way, still ahead, an interesting crime scene exhibit has evidence from LA's most famous crimes.

More with the Kaine and Steele show, next.


KING: Governor Kaine, the Democrats have -- President Obama is going to speak tomorrow on health care. He will offer his final -- it looks like the final stand on health care legislation. He's taken on four new GOP proposals.

What's going to -- are you going to get a health care proposal?

Are you going to get a plan?

KAINE: Larry, we're going to. The president is going to roll out tomorrow, as you understand, an additional four items that -- he was listening to the Republicans last week -- that need to be added to the bill. And he's going to say after a year of debate, it's time to have an up or down vote; stop the delaying tactics; stop the procedural obstructions and let Americans get what they are entitled to, an up or down vote in the two houses about the bill.

We feel very good about its chances of passage. And it's going to do very discernible good for seniors, who are going to get a benefit in prescription drug coverage; for small businesses, who will get tax credits so they can buy health insurance; for parents, who can keep kids on their policies until they're 27 instead of 21; and especially curbing the really significant abuses of insurance companies kicking people off of policies for pre-existing conditions. That's what this bill will do and this bill is going to pass.

KING: Michael, are any Republicans going to go for it?

STEELE: I don't know. Let's wait and see the bill.

But the president's giving another speech tomorrow on health care?


I thought we had pretty much said all we have to say about this subject. I mean it -- we've gotten to the point, after a year and three or four months of -- of this being the priority and then it not being the priority. The confusion that exists out in the country is palpable.

But the one thing that is very clear -- the American people know that this is a 2000 page monstrosity, no matter what you add to it. And a little bit here and a little bit there doesn't change the underlying root effect of this bill, and that is to diminish the relationship between the doctors and the patient, increase the relationship between the government and everyone else in the health care industry.

And that is not the model the American people want.

KING: Do you...

STEELE: I believe (INAUDIBLE)...

KING: Michael, do you like the...

STEELE: -- that senator...

KING: Do you like the status quo, Michael?

STEELE: (INAUDIBLE) said it clearly, let's scrap it and start over.

KAINE: What was that, Larry?

KING: Do you like this -- do you like the way it is now, Michael?

STEELE: The bill?



Do you like the situation in the country is now?

STEELE: No, I don't like way the situation...

KING: Do you think the health care system...

STEELE: -- in the country is because you know what the situation in the country is?

Tomorrow morning when someone goes to work, they're going to get a pink slip. Last week, someone got a pink slip. Next week, someone is going to get a pink slip. So health care becomes...

KING: And we've got 38 million people uninsured.

STEELE: -- sort of a real question for these folks when they're losing their jobs. That is the underlying problem this country is facing right now. And all of these dalliances on trying to do health care has done nothing to create jobs.

KAINE: Well -- well, Larry... KING: Tim?

KAINE: -- if I could, you know, on the -- on the job creation front, remember, at the end of the last administration, the economy was in a freefall. We were losing 750,000 jobs a month and the other guys weren't even willing to pull the ripcord on the parachute.

This president has done the heavy lifting with no help from Republicans to get GDP growing again, to stop job losses. We have a long way to go.

But the issue on the health care bill is basically this -- and I think you asked the right question. The Republicans are defending the status quo. They're OK with 40 percent premium increases in many of the states. They're OK with people getting kicked off their insurance by insurance companies for pre-existing conditions. They're saying well let's scrap it and start all over and we'll take more time, more premium increases, more people losing insurance.

What we know is that we need to act. And those basic components that I laid out -- stopping insurance company abuses, tax credits for small businesses and families, parents keep their kids on their policy, path to affordable coverage for those who don't have it -- these are the basic elements, along with relief for seniors on prescription drugs, that we're confident are going to be very accepted and embraced by the American public.

And so this is a great difference on a matter of principle that we're very happy to go in to talking to the electorate about our position. And let the -- let the Republicans defend the status quo. We think that will...

STEELE: Well, let me just...

KAINE: -- end up working out just fine.

STEELE: -- very clearly say, we are not defending the status quo. And -- and, Chairman, in your team wants to run on that now and into the fall, let's have at it, baby, because I'm looking...

KAINE: Good.

STEELE: -- at New Jersey, Virginia and the great states of -- State of Massachusetts. And we're standing with the American people on what they want versus what you want to give them.

KAINE: And I'm looking at five Congressional elections that we've won in the Republican districts in corrosive Republican primaries...

STEELE: Yes...

KAINE: -- like in Texas tonight, where you guys are fighting with each other. You know, the -- the fact of the matter is, we were sent here...

STEELE: And I'm looking at...

KAINE: -- and given -- and given a majority...

STEELE: -- 26 out of 37...

KAINE: Well...

STEELE: -- special elections...

KAINE: -- we -- we've...

STEELE: -- that we've won, as well, Governor.

KAINE: You can...

STEELE: So it's not just about...

KAINE: We...

STEELE: It's not just the federal level. See, that's your problem. You're only focused on Washington, sir.

KAINE: No, no, no, no. No.

STEELE: You need to focus where real people...


STEELE: -- are -- are living out the pain and the agony of this administration...

KAINE: Michael, you were the...

STEELE: -- every single day.

KAINE: -- you were the one, Michael...

STEELE: And they're voting Republican.

KAINE: -- you were the one that brought up the elections. The issue is people who have health care needs...

STEELE: I know you don't want to hear it, but they vote...

KAINE: How many people...

STEELE: -- and they're voting Republican, baby. Sorry.

KING: I've got to get a break.


KING: I've go to get a break, as we...

KAINE: Larry, just, if I...

KING: -- continue with -- all right. I'll come right back with...

KAINE: OK. Thanks.

KING: -- bipartisanship at work, right after this word.


KING: Going to be a lot of contentious races going on in America this spring, summer, and fall. We hope to have Tim Kaine and Michael Steele back often. In our remaining few moments, give me a prediction, Michael Steele, on the fall races. Can you take back the Senate?

STEELE: We're doing everything we can, absolutely, to be engaged there. We're looking at the retirements that are -- that the Democrats are taking on for themselves, because they can't carry this water for the administration. My expectation is to be very competitive this fall.

And I think in the House and the Senate, gubernatorial races, legislative races, you're going to see a Republican party that's going to be unlike any you've seen before, in terms of taking this message right to the people.

KING: Tim, what's going to happen in the House?

KAINE: We're going to hold on to both the House and the Senate, Larry. I think we're going to do that. We've had some retirements. But it is interesting to note more Republicans have announced retirements in the Senate and in the House and among governors than Democrats.

And so there's going to be contentious races. We acknowledge the average president, in a first midterm, has challenges. Since 1900, on average, the party of the president loses 28 House seats and four Senate seats and governors' races too. And these challenging times.

One thing we do know is, hey, it may be tough, it may be uphill, but that's what Democrats do. We did it in '08. We're the underdog party. We tend to get underestimated. And then we tend to over- perform. We got some tough, challenging races. But I think we'll do very well this November.

KING: Are you making a firm prediction, Michael, on any of these -- are you saying -- you're not saying you're going to take control of the House or the Senate, are you, Michael?

STEELE: Look, we're doing everything in our power to do exactly that. We're well on our way to doing that. We've still got some races that have primaries, as the governor has. And he references, yes, we have more retirements, but they're in Republican districts, so we're going to keep those seats.

So for us, it's not a question of worrying so much about our retirements as, you know, the chairman needs to worry about the facts that their guys have come to our side, or getting out of the game altogether, which are opening them up to seats that are very competitive for us.

So the Senate dynamic looks very, very good. The House dynamic looks wonderful. I made the little mis-speak of calling the leader -- the senator -- Congressman Boehner Leader Boehner. I think it will stick this fall.

KING: OK, we'll have you both back frequently. Thanks guys.

KAINE: Look forward to it, Larry. I think we're going to do fine.

KING: Chairman of their respective parties. This may be one of the most unusual exhibits ever: crime scene evidence from the Manson murders and the OJ Simpson case on display. Where else? In Las Vegas, next.


KING: The Los Angeles Police Department is behind an exhibit that's getting a lot of attention, good and bad. On display are items from some of the city's most notorious crimes and cases. It's all at the Palms Hotel in Las Vegas, and we're there.

Joining us is LAPD chief Charlie Beck to show and tell us what it's all about. We'll also meet Glynn Martin, the retired LAPD sergeant who is the curator. And with us here in the studio, Debra Tate, Sharon Tate's sister, Kim Goldman, the sister -- her brother, Ron, of course murdered in the OJ Simpson case. Rosy Grier, witness to the assassination of Senator Kennedy. And to kind of explain all this, Dr. Michelle Golland, clinical psychologist, and a contributor to

Chief Beck, what's this all about? And by the way, the exhibit is free. What is it about?

CHARLIE BECK, LAPD: Well, Larry, It's about the history of Los Angeles, as told through the eyes of homicide investigators of the Los Angeles Police Department. You know, Los Angeles is a unique city, and its history is tied to the police department. And many of these exhibits have not only been documented in film, in story and in legend in the city of Los Angeles.

This is an opportunity for homicide investigators from all over the country to get together, to share ideas, to share best practices, and to talk about some of the most famous cases in Los Angeles history, as well as their current cases.

KING: Glynn Martin, a classic example is the famous Manson murder case, the killing of a whole bunch of people, a terrible tragedy. What do you see at the exhibit concerning that?

GLYNN MARTIN, LA POLICE HISTORICAL SOCIETY: One of the centerpieces of that exhibit happens to be the -- Charles Manson's car. They loaned it to Tex Watson for the purposes of initiating helter skelter, which was his scheme that resulted in the Manson murders. That's this yellow Ford Fairline that's parked behind us, certainly the biggest piece exhibit in here. But there are some other interesting artifacts that are on public display for what we believe to be the first time, again, that are related to the Manson murders of 1969.

KING: All right, Debra Tate is here, Sharon Tate's sister. Her unborn child -- Sharon, her unborn child and four others were murdered that night. What do you think of this?

DEBRA TATE, SISTER SHARON TATE: From my perspective, it's very disturbing. Number one, I didn't get any notice that this was going to occur. But this is some -- these are very personal artifacts to me. These are things that bring back horrible memories, not only for myself, but other Manson family victims.

KING: Glynn, you have other Manson stuff there. Does it bother you, what Debra just said?

MARTIN: Well, we certainly try to concern ourselves with the thoughts and concerns of victims, and certainly our hearts go out to them. It was, as Chief Beck mentioned -- it was a terrible tragedy where a number of people lost their lives. Likewise, we have an obligation, both as a museum and then the bigger one as the police department, to train, educate, and inform officers and the public doing -- about people that do this particular job of investigating people that have lost their lives.

KING: What are some other Manson things you have, quickly?

MARTIN: Quickly, the ropes that the victims were bound with are on display in one cabinet. Adjoining that cabinet is a fork that was used to stab another victim.

KING: Dr. Golland, our clinical psychologist, is here. What do you make of this, doctor?

DR. MICHELLE GOLLAND, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Larry, it's extremely disturbing to me, on a couple levels. One, given the fact that none of the relatives of the victims were notified about this -- I find that really disturbing that there was no compassion for --

KING: You don't see an educational aspect to it?

GOLLAND: You know, I guess if it was being done in a private manner, but that's not what we're talking about. This is a public display of items that she spoke about that -- it's disturbing.

KING: You can understand that, can't you, Chief Beck?

OK, he's gone. All right, Glynn, you can understand how it would be disturbing to Debra Tate and others to see the -- kind of gruesome, isn't it?

MARTIN: Well, we certainly did our best to keep this from being anything but gruesome, certainly -- Particularly with this case, there are some photographs that are absolutely and positively disturbing. And nowhere in here will you find that kind of stuff on display. The fact of the matter is we're not the people that established the history; we're hoping that by examining this and exploring it further, that somebody somewhere -- there are hundreds of homicide investigators here -- that somebody somewhere will learn something that will assist them in solving a case that they're working on, or maybe that they have worked on.

KING: I understand. How long will the exhibit be on display?

MARTIN: Just until Thursday evening.

KING: Just two days?

MARTIN: Yes, sir. It's part of the training conference, and that wraps up early on Friday.

KING: Debra, will you go and see it?

TATE: I might be willing to go and see it. Most of the things there I have seen previously. This is my first time seeing the rope that linked Sharon and Jay. The gun that beat Jay's head in and shot Jay I have seen before. But it's not just me. We have other family victims.

KING: But it's only a two-day conference, and police officials are coming -- I mean, it's not a --

TATE: I can see where it could be educational, but I think a little bit of notice for people to prepare themselves would have been very, very nice.

KING: All right. Next, rarely if ever seen photos from Marilyn Monroe's death are next. And we'll talk about Senator Kennedy's assassination. And the controversy the exhibit has generated over that.



KING: Back to our exhibit, with Glynn Martin, our retired sergeant and executive director of the Los Angeles Police Historical Society. Our panel assembled here in LA. We'll move to the Marilyn Monroe exhibit. Why that exhibit, Glynn? She was not murdered.

MARTIN: No, she was not. Nonetheless, this was a case where somebody lost their life in Los Angeles. It is a case of enduring public interest, and we thought it important to display a photograph.

KING: Do you -- do you have any link between her and Robert Kennedy, as has been so often written about?

MARTIN: I'm sorry, Larry, I missed that part?

KING: Do you make any link between her and Robert Kennedy?

MARTIN: No, sir, we do not. KING: What do you have on the Robert Kennedy assassination?

MARTIN: Currently displayed for the Robert Kennedy assassination is the logbook of nurse's notes. Senator Kennedy was initially transported to a police hospital, where he was treated and examined by a doctor who determined that his wounds were beyond the doctor's ability to treat. The entry pertaining to that is on display, along with a summary of the investigation in the book, Special Unit Senator, which was the LAPD group charged with investigating that assassination.

KING: And part of the exhibit we're showing you tonight included the shirt that Robert Kennedy was wearing the night he was assassinated at the Ambassador Hotel. We planned to show that to you. It was removed from public view at the last minute. Why, Glynn?

MARTIN: My chief beck was contacted by the family members of the Kennedy family, and out of deference to their wishes, they were removed at their request.

KING: Rosey Grier, you subdued RFK's killer, Sirhan Sirhan. You were a witness to the assassination. What do you think of the exhibit?

ROSY GRIER, WITNESS TO 1968 ASSASSINATION OF RFK: I can't really see the value of it, because it brings back so much pain to all the people that were involved and their family and so forth. I think that -- again, I can see on their part the need to get the type of training that people need in order to catch people that do these kind of things.

KING: Do you understand the Kennedy family's desire to remove the blood-stained shirt.

GRIER: They got it removed because of the power that they had. That's why they removed it. And if you have that kind of power, you can do those kind of things.

KING: Do you think of that scene often?

GRIER: All the time. I always think about what could I have done that would have prevented it. And yet you know that these kind of things happen all -- all these things that happen were quick and shocking and blew you away. There's nothing you can do about it to prepare yourself for these kind of events.

KING: We all remember the man yelling to get the gun, Rosey. You were right next to the senator, right?

GRIER: Yeah, I was trying to get the gun away from Sirhan. But George Plimpton (ph) had the gun initially, was trying to get it. He couldn't take it out. So then I just wrenched it out.

KING: Doctor Golland, you can understand the Kennedy family having the shirt removed.

GOLLAND: Oh, definitely.

KING: If this were a professional police only, wouldn't it have value?

GOLLAND: Yes. I mean, I could see that if it was just for professional police officers. But, again, my feeling about it, Larry, is there are so many things that the LAPD could have done differently. One, they could have given sufficient notice to people. They also could have set up a percentage of the proceeds for the conference to go to victims' rights advocates. I mean, there's many ways to remedy these sorts of things.

KING: We'll take a break and come back and then we'll discuss OJ and bring in Kim Goldman. Don't go away.


KING: By the way, Kim Goldman is with us. Her brother Ron murdered along with Nicole Brown Simpson on June 12th, 1994. Just published in paperback is the Ron Goldman Foundation for justice's authorized version of "I Did It, Confessions of the Killer." There you see its cover. What is the exhibit about the Simpson case, Glynn Martin?

MARTIN: Exhibited in the display case pertaining to this particular LAPD homicide investigation are the bloody gloves that rose to fame during the trial of OJ Simpson and watch cap collected as evidence also.

KING: Kim Goldman, how do you react?

KIM GOLDMAN, SISTER OF RON GOLDMAN: It's disturbing. I think we all feel the same. Had we been given a little bit of notice, it would have been easier to avert your eyes. This morning, I'm watching "The Today Show." My son was with me. It wouldn't have been great for him to see that.

But I think there is an educational value and I understand that. For me, showing pictures, showing weapons shows the brutality in which the crimes were committed. That's important for me, so that people know the way in which my brother and Nicole were slaughtered to death.

Again, it just comes back to sensitivity. I wonder if there is any sensitivity training happening at this conference this week. That would have been interesting to be a part of.

KING: Does it bother you to see the gloves?

GOLDMAN: I'm kind of right down the middle. I watched those gloves. I know what happened with those gloves. But this kind of behavior, honestly, is what motivated -- I have a show in development to talk about victims in crimes and what happens in the aftermath. And this is partly why.

KING: Rosey, you conferred with OJ during -- while doing trial, right? GRIER: I ministered to him, yes.

KING: How do you feel about this?

GRIER: Well, I just feel terrible about all of these things that happened. I know this is not the way God would want us to treat one another, and to try to learn how to live with things after we have these tragedies, because we have to go on with life.

KING: Interesting that in both these -- in this case, the person tried was found not guilty, found guilty in a civil court, but not in this criminal trial.


KING: Another not guilty you have is the Robert Blake gun, right, Glynn Martin?

MARTIN: That's correct, sir.

KING: Now, he was also found not guilty. What is the relevance of the gun?

MARTIN: Again, this is a case of enduring public interest, on the first -- on the firsthand. The second part is, again, talking about the hundreds of investigators that are here, maybe there's something to be learned here. And that's particularly relevant to the Kennedy case, where 42 years later, that is still the largest single homicide investigation ever tackled by the Los Angeles Police Department.

And we know with all these detectives that are here today, not all work for an agency the size of LAPD. So there are lessons that can be learned by the people here today, particularly when dealing with something of the scope of an assassination of a US senator, or dealing with the arrest of a Hollywood celebrity.

GOLDMAN: But I would also say there is a missed opportunity in terms of dealing with victims and victim advocacy and telling you what we see on the other side. When their case closes, we still have a life to live and we still have the devastation to work with. And that's what victim advocacy is about. They missed an opportunity here.

KING: You agree with that, right, Debra?

: Absolutely, 100 percent.

KING: Dr. Golland, do you agree?

GOLLAND: Absolutely.

KING: Do you have some sympathy, Glynn, for the victims?

MARTIN: Yes, sir. I'm a career law enforcement officer and, absolutely. And that being the case, certainly seen plenty of victimization in my career here. As to the notice, I can speak to that directly. This has been posted on at least our website for the past couple of months. Again, the homicide investigators have had it widely publicized for longer than I have.

So, again, if we've offended anybody, certainly we extend our apologies to them. But the intent here is to inform and educate, with the idea that we're going to serve a greater public good.

KING: So, Kim, you might have known about it.

GOLDMAN: If I was surfing the LAPD website, but I don't spend my day doing that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They do have our phone numbers.

TATE: That response is actually offensive.

GOLLAND: Yes. I mean, I'm a huge LAPD fan. I have no ill-will. This could have been handled differently. Quite honestly, this is inherent in the system. They do not treat victims and survivors with respect and dignity, the way we deserve.

KING: This is through Thursday, right, Glynn. But the public, if you're in Vegas, you can come see it, right?

MARTIN: Wednesday and Thursday, 10:00 am to 7:00 pm.

KING: It's at the Palms Casino and Resort. That's the Palms Casino and Resort in Las Vegas. We thank you, Glynn Martin. Any closing comment, Debra? Are you going to go?

TATE: If I have the opportunity I might go.

KING: Kim?

GOLDMAN: No, I've seen what I needed to see.

KING: would you go, Rosey?


KING: Would you learn anything by going, Michelle?

GOLLAND: No, I would not.

KING: Thanks to all of you very much.

GOLDMAN: Thanks, Larry.

KING: Thanks to all our guests, including the LA Police Chief Charlie Beck. Another LARRY KING LIVE tomorrow night. Another "ANDERSON COOPER 360" right now. We keep on keeping on. Anderson?