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Campbell Brown
Students Protest College Tuition Hikes; Interview With Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich
Aired March 04, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: There are two breaking news stories that we're following for you right now.
First, I want to take you to Washington, D.C. Look at what's going on right there. That is a rail station just across from the Pentagon. There's been a shooting. At least two people apparently have been shot. And we understand they're police officers. There's one person that is in custody right now.
But here's the upshot of this story. The Pentagon right now, which is right across the street from this building, is in lockdown. We have got more information coming in from that story as it continues to develop. Again, these are pictures that we're getting from some of our affiliates. That's WJLA.
As we're watching this, there's another story that's developing on the other side of the country. This is in Los Angeles, where we understand hordes of students and teachers are now congregating on downtown Los Angeles, not far from the Ronald Reagan State Building. They are protesting like hasn't been seen on colleges and universities in the United States in decades.
They're upset that fees, tuition fees, for example, have been hiked by as much as 182 percent. They say there have been too many cuts on the state's university system. And the students are now showing up en masse for a protest.
Folks, we have been following this throughout the course of the day, because we have been told that there are going to be protests all over the country. We didn't quite expect to see something as large as this. And we are told by our correspondents there on the ground that the students are still coming. So, we're going to be checking in with them in just a moment.
But let me take you back now to that situation that we're following for you in Washington, D.C., quite serious, especially given the fact that the Pentagon has been locked down.
Chris Lawrence is our Pentagon correspondent and he's going to try and fill us in now on some of the information that's coming in on this story.
Chris, what are you learning about this situation?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, the most important news right here is that two Pentagon police officers have been taken to a nearby hospital and we have now been told that their injuries are not, are not life-threatening. That's the good news.
The bad news is that they were shot on duty right here at the Pentagon just about an hour-and-a-half ago. Now, you may be thinking, how in the world could somebody get a gun to the Pentagon? Well, just outside the Pentagon, not even across the street, just outside, is a Metro station. It's where the Washington, D.C., subway line runs.
It's also where hundreds of buses come in and out every day. You don't have to be in the military. You don't have to have a pass to use that Metro station. Thousands of people come through there. It's a major transportation hub.
About 6:30 tonight, we're told that a man shot at two of the Pentagon police officers at that Metro stop. They returned fire. The two officers were wounded. The shooter was also wounded. All three have been taken to the hospital.
The Pentagon here was locked down for about an hour. We couldn't get in. We couldn't get out. I have just been told now that all of the entrances and exits have been reopened with the exception of that one right there at the Metro.
SANCHEZ: I have got a couple questions for you, Chris. But before we do that, Rene (ph), is there any way we can get the shot back up with that police officer who was going into that rescue vehicle? Because -- there we go. It looks to me -- hey, Chris, can you see this video? Is there a monitor anywhere near you?
LAWRENCE: Yes. Yes, I can see it.
SANCHEZ: This is one of the police officers that we were talking about probably, right?
LAWRENCE: Yes. Yes.
SANCHEZ: He looks to be in uniform. You're right. It doesn't look like it's -- it doesn't look like it's...
LAWRENCE: No, he's sitting up. Yes, he's alert. He's awake.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes. And we're looking at this for the first time, folks, Chris and I.
Is there any indication of what the possible motive was here at this point or do we even know?
LAWRENCE: No. We just walked down the hall and tried to talk to the Pentagon spokesman. He said, hey, hey, hey, hold on, we're not going to know intent for quite a while. That involves talking to multiple witnesses. That involves talking to the actual shooter himself. And since he's been taken to the hospital, that may take a while. (CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Chris, I'm just curious. And I will ask you the question I think a lot of folks are thinking. I don't know the answer to it. What is a Pentagon police officer? Is he a military person?
(CROSSTALK)
LAWRENCE: No, no. That's a great question, because a lot of people would say, oh, the Pentagon police. These are not uniform military personnel. They're not active-duty. They're not what we call M.P.s,, military police.
This is like a police force, an authorized police force that carries guns. They're just like any other police officer, but they are civilians and they patrol inside the Pentagon and the perimeter around the Pentagon.
SANCHEZ: All right, this story is still developing. Obviously, if there are changes on the story or if we get any more word -- as you heard Chris say, that there are two police officers have been shot. Apparently there's at least one person in custody. There's going to be a lot more news coming in on this story. We will be checking back with Chris.
And we're going to stay with this story throughout the hour. In the meantime, Rene, can you go back to that shot out of Los Angeles, because we have kind of been taken aback by this story as we have been watching. Look at this. Look at the size of this gathering. These are all, we're told, students from the University of California system, many of them gathering within the last couple of minutes there at downtown L.A.
We were told they were going to be going to the Ronald Reagan State Building, where they're going to be targeting some of the officials who voted on these education cuts around the state. And we're going to let you know what's going on with that.
In the meantime, I want you to know that this is really just a part of the story that we have been following up all day long. In fact, it's a big part of what we were planning to bring you as our "Mash-Up." Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reason why we're here in San Francisco State is because the students here, they really represent working- class families.
DIANE SAWYER, HOST, "WORLD NEWS": There were rallies at the University of California campuses where fees are jumping more than 30 percent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Berkeley, students barricaded the campus.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: The budget cuts have got to go. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Davis, students try to shut down Interstate 80. And in San Diego the losses of students, teachers, and classes were counted on a scoreboard.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Save our schools.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Students and parents joined their teachers outside Maywood Elementary to protest massive budget cuts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really going to affect the education.
Today's day of action, called March 4, went viral on social networking sites. Facebook and Twitter spread the call to demonstrate after a protest last week in Berkeley turned violent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Boy. And as this continues, there's a caveat to the story, I should tell you that it's not only in Los Angeles. We have got crews -- let me look at my notes over here -- we have got crews at San Francisco State University. We have got a situation at the University of California, Davis. That's just outside Sacramento. That's where some students were threatening to close that highway that would be affecting some of the motorists on their way home, given the fact that it's only 5:06 right now in Los Angeles.
We have also got a situation we're following at UCLA and at Stockton Community College as well. So, this is something that's being repeated right now around the state of California. We at CNN are monitoring it closely, and throughout this newscast, we're going to be checking in with our correspondents who are following this story throughout this hour. So, we will be all over it. Expect to see the very latest from us.
Meanwhile, let me tell you what's going on in Washington right now. All eyes on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. It's on her, as you know, to deliver the votes to try and pass health care reform. The president wants 51 votes. Today, Pelosi made it clear this is not a sure thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Every legislative vote is a heavy lift around here. You assume nothing. Assume nothing in terms of where you were before and where people may be now.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: One reason the speaker can't assume anything, House Democrat Bart Stupak says he and 11 colleagues will vote no unless abortion language in the Senate version of the bill is changed.
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: We're not going to vote for this bill with that kind of language in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stupak's issue is that the bill gives taxpayer subsidies to help people buy insurance policies and that some of those policies can cover abortion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Democrats believe that if the vote were held tonight, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would not have the 217 votes she needs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: In Iraq, early voting is under way. No surprise, it's a messy process there, already marred with violence, now roadside bombs and we understand suicide attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: when it comes to the Iraqis, they are now going to be heading towards that critical vote, with two main concerns. One is a possibility that maybe there has been some sort of mixup in a voting list, and the second is, of course, the reality of violence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were lined up to vote when a suicide bomber in Baghdad slipped into the crowd.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nearly 6,200 candidates vying for just 325 seats. Today, Iraq has almost 19 million registered voters, up from 14 million in 2005.
DAMON: The prime minister is realizing that perhaps this post- election period might not be as smooth as anyone had hoped.
This is quite a departure from his previous rhetoric, where he had been stating that his security forces were quite ready and capable.
So, just to clarify, if this situation dictated it, you would be willing to have U.S. forces extend their stay in Iraq?
NOURI AL-MALIKI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Let's stay international if we can for just a moment. I want to take you to Spain now.
Terrified passengers were evacuated from a cruise ship that was hit by massive waves yesterday. We thought it was one. It was three 26-foot waves rocking a boat and killing two people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Passengers described horror when they saw three huge waves slam into their ship. And look at what happened inside, water pouring into the cabins, into the common areas on this cruise ship.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): There was a big sound and a wave had hit. At that point, we didn't see anything. And when we left the cabin we saw that the wave had flooded everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another view from inside a window that didn't shatter. But the waves broke through many others on the forward fifth deck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 680-foot long ship with 1,930 passengers and crew on board was turned to face the oncoming waves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One after another, three huge waves struck the Louis Majesty in quick secession.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We're going to have a lot more on that story, by the way. We're going to have a lot more.
Also, in New York, the governor is running, literally, running from reporters. He says he's still going to be -- he's still going to be the governor tomorrow. But what about next week? Well, he wouldn't answer that today. And today another of his aides quit. This time it's his communications chief saying that he couldn't -- quote -- "in good conscience" continue to serve this governor.
The governor's accused of abusing his power in a domestic abuse case, like a double whammy. And now he's accused of getting free World Series tickets. Big deal, right? Well, that's what Tom Hanks says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
TOM HANKS, ACTOR: ... Mets fans.
(LAUGHTER)
HANKS: You know, if you can't get free Yankees tickets, what's the point of being governor in New York? How much did they say? It was $6,000 worth of Yankees' tickets? That's like two seats on the upper deck.
(LAUGHTER)
HANKS: You know, this is nothing. Who cares? This is small potatoes. This is not a hot topic.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David Paterson, James Carville this morning.
(LAUGHTER)
HANKS: I tell you something right now. You go to ball games, do they throw in the hot dogs? If they threw in the hot dogs, maybe I would be upset. But who cares if he gets to go to the ball game?
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, let's stop everything we're doing right now. I want to take you back to those protests that are taking place in Los Angeles.
Our correspondent is Ted Rowlands. And I understand that he is being detained by police right now.
Ted, are you there? Can you hear me?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rick, I got you.
SANCHEZ: All right, what's going on, man?
ROWLANDS: Well, as you can see, there are thousands of people in the streets of downtown Los Angeles. And this is really a combination of a number of protests that happened around this city, at high schools, colleges, and at grade schools.
So what you're seeing is a lot of college folks here in the beginning of this crowd, but as you move back there are also high schools, parents, teachers, and students and basically the theme, obviously, is a cut in education funding. And the goal here is to try to break through, try to get education to the point where politicians put education up there with law enforcement in terms of, you know, you hear politicians say, well, we're going to cut, but we're not going to cut police and fire.
Well, these folks think that education should be in that exact same category. And they're fighting the proposed cuts for the next year's budget in California. They're looking at in Los Angeles about 2,000 more teachers going down. Pink slips went out this week.
And these folks are trying to do maybe the impossible. And that is to break through and stop it, because nobody's arguing that, quite frankly, there's no more money. The state is in dire need of reform on all levels in terms of fiscal reform, and these folks are trying to send a clear message that they don't want education on the table anymore.
They're saying, find other ways. Education is too important. Whether or not it will work, who knows, but, boy, what a turnout. You can see that.
SANCHEZ: All right, Ted. Thanks so much.
We apologize. We had a little misinformation there about the situation that he was in. I had been told that he was possibly being detained. Obviously, he's fine and we're going to get back to that situation in Los Angeles as we get more information on that.
Also, if you would, Rene, could you show that picture that's coming out of Washington, D.C.? Because there's really two developing stories that we're following if you right now. It's 13 minutes after the hour.
In Washington, D.C., we understand the Pentagon has been shut down. And the reason it's been shut down is because there was a shooting just outside at that rail station, where two police officers were shot, Pentagon police officers. And at least one person is in custody.
And, then if you have got that shot again out of Los Angeles, let's go back to that, Rene. Let's give them the bird's-eye view of what Ted Rowlands was just trying to show us there on the ground. It was kind of hard to get a really good sense of what Ted was talking about. So, let me show you really what's going on there. That's what it looks like.
It's really a story about students and teachers en masse trying to give a sense of how disappointed they are that rates, tuition hikes have gone up about 182 percent. That's between 2002 and 2009. That's why they're upset. That's why they're out there. It's not only here. It's been all over the country, but specifically in California.
These are the biggest crowds that we have seen today. We're going to take a quick break. Both of those stories are the ones that we're going to be keying on over the next hour. Stay right there. I'm Rick Sanchez. And we're going to be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We have got some brand-new video that is coming in. Take a look at this, folks. We just got this in a little while ago. This is from WJLA. We want to thank them. We told you that there is an incident going on just across the street from the Pentagon. Apparently there's one person who has been taken into custody and two police officers have been shot.
It's the reason the Pentagon is now in lockdown. And these are police officers. We -- well, I'm assuming they're police officers. It's kind of hard to tell because it's so dark. It looks like they're using some kind of infrared device to look for someone or something. Not exactly sure what it is that they're looking for. Not exactly sure what the motive is. But we are certain that there was a shooting. It's quite serious. Two police officers were shot.
It's not a life-threatening situation for either police officer, but there is at least one suspect. It looks like there's a possibility that they may still be looking for another suspect. That's a breaking news story. And we're going to be all over it.
The other breaking news story that we're following is the one out in Los Angeles. I have think you've seen some of those pictures. Thousands and thousands of students are on the streets in L.A. They are marching and gathering. We're told they're heading over to the Ronald Reagan State Building, where they're protesting this tax hike -- or this hike in tuition fees, I should say, for something like 182 percent from 2002 to 2009.
And we're told from reports I have been reading throughout the day that they're going continue to go up. We have got correspondents on the ground there and we're going to going to be talking to them, especially around the area where Highway 80 is, where we understand that students tried to lock -- or block freeway access and that could become quite a problem there. That's just outside U.C. Davis in Sacramento, far from this scene which is in Los Angeles. But we have the state covered for you.
Meanwhile, the big story that we're also following politically for you, here is the deal. It looks like the president of the United States is now on board with using reconciliation to get his health care bill.
Listen carefully to what he said yesterday. And notice that -- notice as you listen to the president here, because I didn't catch this yesterday, interestingly enough, I caught it later on when I listened to his speech again, he doesn't actually use the word reconciliation, but:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now it deserves the same kind of up-or-down vote that was cast on welfare reform, that was cast on the Children's Health Insurance Program, that was -- that was used for COBRA health coverage for the unemployed and, by the way, for both Bush tax cuts: all of which had to pass Congress with nothing more than a simple majority.
I therefore ask leaders in both houses of Congress to finish their work and schedule the vote in the next few weeks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. But you notice the word simple majority there. That's what the president said, right? Now I want you to listen to another Barack Obama, back when he was Senator Obama, the candidate, and back when he said he wouldn't settle for a single majority on health care, didn't want that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, SEPTEMBER 25, 2007)
OBAMA: This is an area where we're going to have to have a 60 percent-majority in the Senate and the House in order to actually get a bill to my desk. We're going to have to have a majority to get a bill to my desk that is not just a 50-plus-one majority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Not just a 51-plus majority.
Congressman Dennis Kucinich is one of the many people who was called to a meeting with the president of the United States just a short while ago and he's good enough to join us now.
Congressman, thanks so much for being with us, sir.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Thank you, Rick. Good to be with you.
SANCHEZ: What's the plan? What did the president tell you? What did you learn? What can you share with the American people?
KUCINICH: The president talked to nine members of Congress. Eight of them voted for the bill. One voted against. That was myself.
And he described the bill as being a foundation, a new start. And he made a very strong pitch for his policy. And, frankly, you know, when the president makes a pitch to you, he really evokes desire to want to help him. I would like to be able to help him on this. I just have some serious concerns about the bill that is being presented.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me take you back here a little bit. I think you have buried the lead for us. You said you disagree with the president and you are not going to vote for this bill? Is that what I heard you say?
KUCINICH: Well, I voted against the bill in the House. I voted against it, because it essentially is a privatization of our health care system, which already is creating double-digit premium increases four consecutive years. It's pricing more and more people out of health care.
And just simply requiring people to have health care, even with a government subsidy, may not solve the problem for the American people. Now, this is something that I have made no secret about, Rick, and I voted for the bill in committee. But when it -- a public option, which is the only way you control the insurance company rates, was stripped out, once that was stripped out, it really gave me some limitations about what I could do to be helpful, even though I want to be.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: If Dennis Kucinich could have his way, he would probably want to have universal health care, wouldn't he?
KUCINICH: Well, you have to remember, that's true, but keep this in mind. I'm not a newcomer to this. I brought to three national conventions proposals for Medicare for all.
I campaigned twice nationally for Medicare for all. However, I was willing to be able to negotiate and bargain for a public option. That's what we passed in committee, but it disappeared in a backroom deal.
I want to be helpful to this president. He's my president. I want to see him succeed, but the bill's a terribly flawed bill that will lock in the privatization of health care, $70 billion bonanza for the insurance industry.
Rick, the telling point is that every successive bill that's been presented about this health care so-called reform, the health care stocks go up. And the analysts -- stock analysts on Wall Street say, buy health care stocks. They keep going up.
Why would they do that? Because they know they're going to -- insurance companies know they're going to clean up.
SANCHEZ: I'm struck by a bizarre coincidence here. I was just doing an interview with Ron Paul the other day, who's really the polar opposite of you, politically, and he was saying to me almost the very same things that you're saying to me.
He was saying, he doesn't trust that this thing can be done in this way. Obviously, he was saying that the government shouldn't be involved. You're saying the government should be involved. Is there any way that you can reconcile this thing, so we can see passage of it?
KUCINICH: Well, you know, again, I would like to be helpful. It just -- this bill is very difficult. And those who describe this as a government takeover of health care, it's almost laughable.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KUCINICH: We're giving the insurance companies 31 million more people.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Congressman, do you think the president sold out on this thing? He started with one thing, and now he's going in another direction, and allowing big health care, if I could use that term, in quotations, before getting in too much trouble, that he's allowed them to pull his strings on this thing?
(CROSSTALK)
KUCINICH: No. When Barack Obama and I campaigned for the presidency -- you know, he won, and he deserves the respect of the office. When he campaigned, he never said he was going to be for single-payer.
So, I think we have to state that.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KUCINICH: And I think that we can disagree with the president without disparaging him. I think it's very important that we keep this on policy. And the policy is further privatization of health care. That's what I have a difficult time with, Rick. That's why I struggle with this, despite the desire that I have to want to be helpful to Barack Obama.
SANCHEZ: Is there any possibility at this point? And we will close with this. Is there any possibility at this point that some of you guys on the left of the party can still try and talk these folks into putting the public option back in? Or is it, at this point, a moot point?
KUCINICH: Well, first of all, Rick, check "The National Journal." I'm now a centrist. Number two...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Who knew?
KUCINICH: Yes, who knew?
(LAUGHTER)
KUCINICH: I think it's really important for there to continue to be discussions about how you can improve the bill. And that's something that I'm sure the White House is aware of. I think the vote will be very close. And, again, I think we all want what's best for our country.
SANCHEZ: OK. All right.
Dennis Kucinich, my thanks to you for taking time to take us through this. I know everyone was calling you tonight, and you had an opportunity to be on a lot of different networks. And I thank you for choosing ours and coming on and setting the record for us. I appreciate that, sir.
KUCINICH: Thank you very much.
SANCHEZ: All right.
Marches, strikes and protests all over California tonight. Take a look at these pictures. We're following them for you. These are live pictures that we're getting.
This is still L.A. there, right, Kevin? Still L.A.? Yes. Thanks. When was -- by the way, think about this for a moment, because I'm thinking about it as I'm looking at this. When was the last time you saw American college students fired up and showing up at a protest like this? You have got to think back to, like, the 1960s, right? Students seem to be mad as hell.
And this is all over money, by the way. We're going to be taking you there. We're also going to be taking you to that scene that is still developing in Washington, D.C.
Stay right there, folks. There's a lot of stuff going on tonight. And I want to take you through it. There's the scene in Washington. Our thanks now to WUSA.
And I'm being told that there's a news conference coming up from the Pentagon. It should be coming up in about 20 minutes or so. We will carry it live. Stay right there. I'm Rick Sanchez. The news rolls on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
There are two developing stories that we're following for you at this hour. It's 29 minutes after the hour right now. The first story that we're following is in Washington, D.C.
As you can see, this is the Pentagon rail station. It's right across from the Pentagon. And it's the reason the Pentagon has been in lockdown tonight. These are two police officers who had just left that same area. It looks like they got some kind of infrared devices, and they may be looking for a suspect.
Speaking of suspects, there is a suspect who is in custody. He is accused at this time of shooting two police officers. Both police officers are down. They are not experiencing life-threatening situations.
That's one of the police officers there now, as he was being taken into an ambulance, after getting into this shootout, really, with this suspect, who I understand is also injured, by the way. I do believe that the suspect, himself, was shot. In fact, let me take a look at my notes here.
Public affairs officials for the Pentagon are saying now, two officers were shot and injured. Not life threatening. The suspect was apprehended and has much more -- OK, listen to this. I'm reading this to you. It was just handed to me by one of our producers here.
The suspect was apprehended and is in much more serious injuries. Has much more serious injuries. That's a direct quote. He said the suspect was shot by one of our officers.
So that's the situation there. Don't know about the situation in the Pentagon, itself, whether it's been open. Our correspondent, of course, Chris Lawrence, is reporting from the Pentagon tonight and he's catching us up on all the new information that's going on there.
Meanwhile, as we're following that, there's another breaking story that we're following on the other side of the country out west. I want to take you now to L.A.
All right. Let's do this. You see that right there? All right. See that? That's University of California Davis on the right. There you see protests in Orlando, Florida, as well at the University of Central Florida, UCF. There you see protests in Austin, Texas, at U.T., University of Texas. All the way down at the bottom you're looking at Los Angeles, Atlanta, as well at Spellman and Morehouse, and then there's students protesting at Denver as well.
Now, let's switch to the big shot in L.A., and you'll see what's going on there where students have been gathering all day long. But just within the last, oh, 40 minutes or so, it's about 10 minutes before we went on the air, we were surprised to see the numbers of students that were showing up. Not far from downtown Los Angeles where I believe they were targeting a building that's called the Ronald Reagan State Building, where some of the elected officials who made the call to cut the state's budget so that it would effect education and has knocked up tuition prices, they say, over the last -- since 2002 by 182 percent is something the students can't deal with, and now there's apparently a 32 percent tuition increase that the students are fighting back against. As we look at these pictures it almost looks like it's a march, doesn't it? It looks like they're heading in a specific direction. Hopefully we'll be able to check in with Ted Rowlands in a minute.
Now, Ted, our correspondent, Ted Rowlands was there. The problem was that police started getting a little nervous and a little antsy and they started moving him around, and apparently we had to move the truck. I think we got him back.
Ted, if you're there, this is Rick. I know you're having a tough time getting out of there.
ROWLANDS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: OK, good, I got you. Hey, Ted, would you let our viewers know what the gist of this protest is about? What's got the folks there so riled up?
ROWLANDS: Well, you touched on it. This is a nationwide event, obviously. But here in California, you could see the numbers are just through the roof. Thousands of people have come downtown to Los Angeles. And you mentioned that we're outside the Ronald Reagan building, which is basically the state building in L.A., rather than going to Sacramento. But that's the message they're trying to send. They're sending it to Sacramento. And you se4e people of all ages, teachers and students, a lot of college students, as you mentioned, are protesting rate increases at the state universities. But you also have high school students and middle school students and elementary school students here with their families because the state has cut education so severely over the last couple years. And basically what they're saying enough is enough. And they're trying to send a clear message.
And we've heard some great slogans, of course. These are teachers so they're very smart. They've been screaming, you know, we got money for war, AIG. What were you saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Given $130 billion to bail out AIG, but yet we've got kids in the LUSD who are in classrooms with 45 students and many of them are sitting on the floor. We've got old, old schools that are decrepit. They've got picnic tables that are just disgusting. There's a lack of computers in the schools. It's relative poverty in our country.
ROWLANDS: A lot of problems in education is what you're saying. And there seems to be bailouts for others.
This is a group of middle school teachers here. They're here from their school. It's really a group from all across the district. See how passionate they are, Rick? He's still talking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We teach our kids about business. If you run a business and you fail, then, you know, you're not going to be making money.
ROWLANDS: Absolutely. SANCHEZ: You know, Ted, Ted, Ted -- I have a question.
ROWLANDS: Point taken. Very well taken.
SANCHEZ: Ted --
ROWLANDS: They want education up there as the number one priority for politicians.
SANCHEZ: Ted --
ROWLANDS: Obviously the state is in trouble. Yes, Rick.
SANCHEZ: I have a question. I mean, I'm just sitting here listening and they may have a very good beef with the state. But I'm just wondering what alternative do they propose? I mean, look, everybody seems to be tightening their belt these days. If they don't make the tuition cuts, where do they think the cuts should be made? Because the money has got to come from somewhere.
ROWLANDS: Basically everywhere else but education. And the theory is here is that education's been cut enough. And these people say, hey, we've done our share. If you cut education any more, you're really going to hurt the fabric of this country.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Ted, Ted --
ROWLANDS: Talk to these middle schoolers --
SANCHEZ: Ted, Ted -- hold on. Ted, hold on. Hold on, hold on. Ted, hold on, because we're looking at a situation --
ROWLANDS: Let me get to your answer, Rick. OK.
SANCHEZ: We're looking at a situation here now. OK. Look at this. Look at this. These are police officers. This is from Berkeley, by the way. This is not in Los Angeles. This is a little further away from where -- this is a little further away from where Ted was. This is at U.C. Berkeley, we understand. And it looks like there was an altercation between police who had gathered there.
Take that back -- Rene (ph), take that back from the top if we can. See those little barricades that are set up there? And now it looks like something is going on behind the trees. And the barricades come down. The police officers go over them. And they start going after some of the students.
Now, we don't know if there was a provocation here. We're looking at this tape raw. We don't know if there were any injuries. It looks like there's a scuffle. It doesn't seem to last long. And once again, then the officers go over the side to the right and then they skip back over to the left on the other side of the tree. Again, this is -- tell me what you can out of this, either Kevin or Tammy are in the control room. What are we learning? What can we officially say about this situation at this point, if anything? Because if we don't have anything, that's OK as well. All right. Now we're going to a live picture. This is -- now we're switching to San Francisco. And it looks like students are in the streets. I understand that Interstate 80 is closed as a result of this protest, but let's make sure we nail this down.
This is San Francisco, right? The shot's very tight and it's hard to tell. Can't see the -- hey, get rid of that developing -- all right. Well, hold on. We lost the shot. We lost the shot.
Let's go to Texas. Do we have that? Let's go to Austin. All right. These are pictures coming in from Austin, Texas. These are -- are these live or these earlier today? All right. These are pictures from earlier today.
That's the scene in Austin. And we also had a scene, if we -- check and see if we have that scene just outside of -- OK. Here's U.C. Davis. Now I'll tell you why U.C. Davis is interesting. U.C. Davis, for those of you who are not familiar with the geography out there, U.C. Davis is not far from Sacramento. Students not only rallied here and started shouting their demands on campus, but then they also -- there we see more arrests. Let's listen in here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't do anything. Let go of me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: All right. There we see a student being taken away by police. Again, folks, a lot of this video is coming into us now. Remember, it's now about 5:38.
Now, this is UCLA. This is UCLA.
PROTESTERS: We'll never be divided.
SANCHEZ: These are the gatherings in UCLA. All right.
Now we're outside of Atlanta, Georgia.
PROTESTERS: No budget cuts.
SANCHEZ: And this is in Denver, Colorado, where students were also marching on the streets in downtown. Obviously addressing the capitol building there.
All right. Let's see if we can get that shot back up from that U.C. Berkeley situation that we're following just a little while ago. We're going to try and get that shot back up, Rene (ph), if we possibly can. There it is.
And remember, folks, as we look at all of these pictures that we're taking you around, the reason all of these are coming in now is because it's 5:39 right now out west. And this is when most of these protests were planned. The protests, the marches, the demonstrations. We weren't quite sure exactly how heavily they would be attended. But now we're learning, and I guess to our own surprise, that they're being attended in mass by students and by teachers. Let's go back to that shot in Los Angeles, now, if we can and see how that crowd is doing. I mean, that seemed to be a very well behaved crowd. That's the one Ted Rowlands is not far from. As you can see, they're all concentrated in that one area there. Let's go ahead and listen in a little bit.
It's as big a protest that we've seen in this country in quite a while, at least having to do with college students. Ted Rowlands isn't far from there, by the way, and he's filling us in on what's going on in street level.
We're going to -- let's do this. Let's see if we can sneak a break in. We're coming up on -- oh, there's Ted. Let me check in with Ted one more time. Hey, Ted, Rick Sanchez. Can you hear me, Ted?
ROWLANDS: Yes. Let me get your answer to the question earlier, Rick. You're saying, hey, listen, Linda, she's a middle school teacher. The question is this. Listen, we all understand that education is not something we want to cut but there's no money. What do you propose the state of California does?
LINDA, MIDDLE SCHOOL TEACHER: Raise taxes.
ROWLANDS: That's not going to fly.
LINDA: I don't know, but we really do have to pay for these kids' education and we have to pay for our salaries. And if we don't educate these kids, they're just going to grow up to cost us more.
ROWLANDS: Does it mean pay cuts or as a teacher would you take a pay cut right now to save other jobs?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I had to I would take a small pay cut right now, but I don't want to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'd take a pay cut to save people's jobs. We're about unity. And that's what unions are about. Unions fought to have public education in this society and we're going to fight to preserve it.
There's no question about this. There's more of us than there are them. We need to tax the rich. We need to close the loopholes. It's very clear. We need to --
ROWLANDS: Good luck trying to get that politician to go with you --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In California, we --
ROWLANDS: We're talking about reality. What do we do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are talking about reality. In California we a referendum that says the politicians are only in for a certain period of time.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Ted --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did that for a reason.
SANCHEZ: Ted --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are held accountable to us.
SANCHEZ: Ted --
ROWLANDS: Yes, Rick.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't like them. We'll get rid of them.
SANCHEZ: I certainly don't mean to interrupt. I don't mean to interrupt points being made. They're very important, but we understand we're going to switch over to our other breaking story now.
Good job, Ted, doing yeoman's work there.
This is the press conference that we're following right now out of Washington, D.C. just to catch you up as we see the officials walking over to the microphone.
Two police officers have been shot. They returned fire. A suspect is in custody. We understand the suspect's injuries are much more serious than the police officers. Nonetheless, there's been an ongoing investigation in the area. The situation is so serious, in fact, that the Pentagon had to be in lockdown. They had to shut down the Pentagon for quite some time. We're not sure at this point, if, in fact, the Pentagon has been opened once again.
And, in fact, I want to show you how serious, or how tense this got there for a little while. This is from WJLA. This is where it appears that other police officers, we don't know if these are military officials or police officers, actually, at this point. We got this video. It looks like they have some kind of infrared device on their weapons and trying to look for something. We don't know if there was a second suspect because we do know that the first suspect was taken away.
Here's one of those police officers, again, that was --- here's one of those police officers that was shot. And is this the beginning of the news conference? Are we live? Let's dip into it.
CHIEF RICHARD KEEVILL, PENTAGON POLICE: I'm the chief of police. About 6:40 tonight, a person came toward the Pentagon prescreen area, appeared to be pretty calm. As the officers started to ask him for his pass to get into the Pentagon, he drew a weapon from his pocket and started shooting immediately. He didn't say anything. He just engaged the officers.
Both officers were hit. The injuries were not life threatening. They returned fire. The suspect was also hit. His injury is pretty critical. He was transported to a local hospital. We are not going to release the name or names of the officers and the suspect at this time. Things are still very preliminary. Questions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, there were some -- might have been wearing military fatigues? Can you address that?
KEEVILL: I cannot confirm that at this time, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he say anything as he approached --
KEEVILL: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chief, What type of weapon did the suspect have? Was it a handgun?
KEEVILL: It was a handgun, ma'am, but I can't tell you the kind right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he wearing any kind of body armor underneath his clothes?
KEEVILL: I can't answer that question right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where the officers --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know his nationality?
KEEVILL: I'm sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we know his nationality?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His nationality?
KEEVILL: His nationality? He's an American citizen as far as I know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did he look like?
KEEVILL: Can't answer that. Haven't seen him yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many shots were fired by either party?
KEEVILL: Many. That's all I can tell you right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have the age of the suspect?
KEEVILL: I'm sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The age of the suspect?
KEEVILL: I do but I'm not going to release that at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you address the injuries to your officers?
KEEVILL: I won't get into the detail where they were shot because the injuries were grazing injuries. The officers were able to return fire. As I said, the injury to the suspect is a lot more severe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were they wearing body armor?
KEEVILL: That's not an appropriate question. I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where the suspect is from? Did he have any I.D. on him saying where he was from?
KEEVILL: We have I.D'd him. It's not appropriate to discuss that right now, because we're still running down leads. We have multiple addresses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he local, sir?
KEEVILL: I don't want to answer that at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us when the last time anything like this has happened at the Pentagon as far as someone trying to get in with a gun and killing an officer?
KEEVILL: To my knowledge, sir, it has never happened in our history. Not with a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What sort of protection do Pentagon officers wear or have on them?
KEEVILL: Like every other professional police agency they wear a ballistic vest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they behind any sort of glass or anything?
KEEVILL: Probably not appropriate to address that right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chief, was the suspect wearing any type of body armor, anything like that?
KEEVILL: That question has already been asked. The answer is I can't answer that at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he say anything?
KEEVILL: He did not say a word. According to the officers, and I interviewed two or three of them now, they say he walked up very cool like there was no distress. He had no real emotion in his face. It's very typical for someone to reach for their pass to show it. When he reached in his pocket they assumed he was going to get a pass and he came out with a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chief, is there any other threat? I know officers are looking in trash cans and other places. Was there any other threat?
KEEVILL: We secured the area to make sure there wasn't any kind of a device. We're satisfied at this time that that's the case. There is nothing else. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you find any kind of Pentagon pass on the man after the shooting?
KEEVILL: We can't answer that right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What additional agencies if any responded as well, beside the Pentagon?
KEEVILL: The Pentagon Police Department, the Arlington County Police Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation are here. We're also getting some assistance from the United States Secret Service.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And who's going to lead the investigation?
KEEVILL: Our agency, the United States Pentagon Police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long had your officers been on the force?
KEEVILL: I can't answer that at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do they believe the suspect came about --
KEEVILL: I shouldn't answer that right now, ma'am. We have a theory but it's still a theory. It's going to take time to develop that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was he pretending to be a security officer?
KEEVILL: I'm sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was he pretending to be --
KEEVILL: He wasn't pretending to be anything. He walked up wearing a coat and just reached in his pocket, pulled out a gun and started shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it thought that he had (INAUDIBLE) are there any particular --
KEEVILL: At this time we don't know that, sir. We're still looking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any other firearms?
KEEVILL: I can't answer that right now. It's a piece of evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard from witnesses that there were military personnel on the ground in handcuffs on the scene. Why would that be?
KEEVILL: I don't know anything about that, ma'am. That's the first I heard that
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you anything (INAUDIBLE)
KEEVILL: We're still looking into that. We'll probably know something later tonight or first thing in the morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did the officer say to the suspect?
KEEVILL: There wasn't time to say anything to him, ma'am. He drew a gun and started shooting almost immediately.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They did ask him for I.D.?
KEEVILL: I don't think they said anything. It happened when he pulled the gun out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That area was all redesigned to handle security threats, to be separated off. How do you say all of that worked in light of this incident?
KEEVILL: Actually I am pleased on a number of levels. The officers acted very quickly and decisively to neutralize him as a threat. No one else was injured. As you know, at that time, we might have a lot of people coming and going so we were fortunate that there were no other injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For a time, the Pentagon, itself, all exits were blocked and everybody was inside, we were told by the DOD. How long was that in effect? And how difficult is it for a force like yours to lock down what some say is one of the biggest office buildings in the world?
KEEVILL: We trained with some regularity to make sure that we can do that very quickly, and we did it very quickly tonight. As soon as we were satisfied that no one inside the building was in harm's way or there was no additional threat, we opened the building again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what kind of time period that was? Half hour, hour?
KEEVILL: I don't have that information right now, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one shooter?
KEEVILL: I'm sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one shooter?
KEEVILL: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you clarify, again, what happened? He approached, no words were exchanged between the parties?
KEEVILL: He was -- the officer was emphatic about saying he was very calm, that there was no distress. He had his arm down in his pocket. We see folks come up to the Pentagon every day. They have their passes in different places. He reached in his pocket. They assumed he was going to get his pass out, and he came out with a gun and just started shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So Chief --
KEEVILL: Sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did he get his pass out for?
KEEVILL: Because you can't come into the Pentagon without a pass.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did the officers ask him just to show his pass?
KEEVILL: I don't believe they said anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You already answered this question. How many shots were fired by either side?
KEEVILL: I can't answer that right now. I can't answer that right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, where the two officers that were wounded the only two who fired?
KEEVILL: It's called the Pentagon metro entrance facility.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, were the two officers that were shot, were they the only two to return fire to the suspect, or were there other officers that might have opened fire?
KEEVILL: There is one other officer I believe that was involved. That information is preliminary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what kind of weapons did the suspect carry?
KEEVILL: I can't answer that question right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what kind of weapons (INAUDIBLE)
KEEVILL: Pentagon Police Department uses a Glock .40 caliber.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: .40?
KEEVILL: .40 caliber.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that an automatic? Semi-automatic?
KEEVILL: Semi-automatic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up in that area, you have an office (INAUDIBLE) in the balcony. Did he fire at all during this incident?
KEEVILL: Sorry, I can't answer that question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be clear, this happened outside. He never actually went in the door? KEEVILL: That's correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KEEVILL: For those of you that may not heard that, that's an important question. This all occurred outside. You know, we have layers of security and it worked. He never got inside the building to hurt anyone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How close was he when he started firing?
KEEVILL: Within a few feet. Probably five feet or less.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you need a pass to get into the metro facility?
KEEVILL: No. We're talking about the facility outside. No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where was --
KEEVILL: One question at a time, please. I'm sorry, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said he was trying to enter the metro facility?
KEEVILL: That's called the metro entrance facility because the metro station sits right overtop of the Pentagon at that location. That's where people come up to enter the Pentagon who use public transportation to come to work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
KEEVILL: That would have been our -- it's our impression that that's what he would have tried to do. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so what is at that metro entrance? Is there a metal detector? Are there police officers there?
KEEVILL: We have multiple layers of security. I'm not going to get into the type of security. That's not appropriate. We have multiple ways of checking before you get inside the building.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chief, did you describe how the suspect was dressed?
KEEVILL: I think at this point, sir, it's probably inappropriate to answer that because --
SANCHEZ: All right, that's the situation there. We're all kind of caught by surprise. The story has become even more newsworthy than we assumed as we were getting into it. We were led to believe that although this is a very serious story, it affected what was a shooting between police officers and a suspect. What we did not know going into this story was what we just heard in that news conference, and that is that this was someone who was trying to gain entry into the Pentagon. And it was upon trying to gain entry into the Pentagon that two officers tried to stop him. Took out a gun, shot at the officers. The officers shot back.
Now, I don't know if you caught this at home, but it seemed interesting to me that on several occasions the chief was asked whether this suspect was wearing body armor. And on both occasions the chief says, I can't answer that question. He didn't say no. He said, I can't answer that question. And I'm just wondering why the reporters would have asked.
He did confirm that there was only one shooter and when asked how many shots were fired, he kind of glanced around looking for the right number and then just said, many. As if to say this was a shootout going back and forth between the suspect and the two officers and all three have been shot tonight. So that's the situation.
I'm going to try and sneak a break in here. But before we do that, I also want to let you know that we've just learned that in Oakland 120 people have been arrested. Let me show you the tape around this. And you'll get a sense of why this is happening.
People are running on the streets, blocking traffic. They're obviously trying to make their points in ways that are not going to be taken well by law enforcement officials there. These are students who are protesting the rate increase in tuition across the state of California because of some of the cuts that they've had to make in the budget.
Folks, these two stories are developing as we speak. We're going to sneak a break in, but stay right there. We're coming right back. We're going to check in with Chris Lawrence and we're also going to be checking on the story in California.
My God, look at this. And more arrests continue. Again, 120 in this area where this is going on.
Stay right there. I'm Rick Sanchez. The news continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We've got about three minutes left. Let me try and split that three ways. I want to give the first minute to Chris Lawrence. You're looking at one of the victims here, one of the4 officers that got into a shootout.
Folks, the reason this is now a more important story than the way we were looking at it before is, this is not just a crime that happened to occur across from the Pentagon. This is a crime that occurred with someone trying to get into the Pentagon. That's what makes it significant.
Chris Lawrence is standing by. He's our Pentagon correspondent.
Chris, I want to give you at least a minute to try and wrap this up for us here. At least let us know what else you've learned. And what do we know about this suspect? I kept hearing this question being asked about whether or not he had some kind of armor on him. LAWRENCE: Yes. I heard the question, but we didn't hear any answers. We don't know much about the suspect right now, except to hear the police say that he appears to be an American citizen and that he had some form of I.D. on him, although they're not going to release the information on that just yet.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
LAWRENCE: The thing that really jumped out to me was that he walked up to them and they said he reached inside to pull out what they thought was a pass to show them. Rick, that's something I do every single day here at the Pentagon.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
LAWRENCE: You get off the metro and there the Pentagon police officers, right there. I reach in my pocket. I show them my I.D., and 10 yards past them is the door to the building.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
LAWRENCE: So it's something that they must do thousands of times every single day here.
SANCHEZ: And obviously, the thing about this story is to find out who this character was and what his intentions may have been. We, frankly, don't have that answer right now. When we do, Chris, let us know. I'm going to let you go because I've got another developing story that's going on on the streets of Oakland and San Francisco. We're getting more information.
Rene, if you can give me that shot, I want the folks at home to see what's going on. It almost seems -- it seems crazy, but there are people on the streets of Oakland on a highway.
Now, I just learned, thanks to Mary, our producer, what this is. This is Interstate 980/880 freeway connector.
Let me tell you what's going on here. A group that broke off from the march to Oakland city hall earlier in the day made its way through the downtown area. They didn't stay in the area where they were supposed to peacefully march. They ultimately ended up on a freeway.
And are these live pictures now? Yes, these are live pictures that we're getting right there from the scene. It's from a little further up.
Just as we were going to the break, you could see some of the folks there running away from police. In fact, listen to this. One protester tried to elude arrest by jumping off the freeway and was seriously injured, running away from a police officer. Traffic in the area had come to a complete halt as police were chasing and working to remove and arrest some of the protesters. So quite a scene there in the Oakland/San Francisco area as protesters take to the streets. Similar scenes being played out in parts of Atlanta, Austin, Denver, all throughout California as well.
We're going to stay on this. I'm Rick Sanchez. I want to thank you for staying through this last hour with us. As more information comes in, we here at CNN will share it with you.
Here now, Larry King.
