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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Home Video Shows Jaycee Dugard`s New Life; New York Lawmaker Fighting Cruel Practice of Tail Docking
Aired March 05, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Jaycee Dugard breaks her silence. Never-before-seen video goes inside Jaycee`s new life. Cops say this poor woman was kidnapped, raped, and forced to spend 18 years trapped in Phillip Garrido`s living hell, even giving birth to his two children. Now, she`s back where she belongs with her daughters and family, baking cookies and laughing. Tonight, for the very first time, we`ll hear from Jaycee herself.
Plus, heartache turns to outrage. Chelsea King`s parents demand answers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times do our daughters need to be raped before we put these monsters behind bars forever?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops say their beautiful child was raped and murdered by a convicted sex offender. He sexually attacked a 13-year-old just ten years ago. Now cops wonder if this monster is connected to attacks on seven other women and girls. They`re investigating. Tonight, ISSUES joins the parents` fight, spearheading a new movement. How can we scrap junk justice and achieve freedom from fear?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, an astounding first look inside the hidden life of Jaycee Dugard. She was freed from Phillip Garrido`s nasty backyard compound six months ago. Now, she and her family are showing the world their new life together. Here`s a clip from ABC`s "Good Morning America".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAYCEE DUGARD, FORMER KIDNAPPING VICTIM: Hi. I`m Jaycee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s it but, boy, that speaks volumes. It`s 29- year-old Jaycee on the far left -- you see her there -- with her mom and half sister. They are living in a secret location in California, along with Jaycee`s two teen daughters. This poor family waited 18 long years, excruciating years, to be reunited.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY PROBYN, JAYCEE DUGARD`S MOM: We released this video so that you can see that we are happy and well. And when we have more to share, we will. As a mother, I am pleading for our privacy in this very public story.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police say convicted rapist Phillip Garrido and his wife snatched Jaycee from a bus stop in 1991. Jaycee gave birth to two daughters, believed to be Garrido`s, while she was trapped in his backyard hell.
So how is Jaycee coping with her horrific past? And will she have to testify against the monster who allegedly stole her freedom, her childhood, her innocence?
Straight out to my truly fantastic expert panel: child psychologist Dr. Dale Archer; former criminal investigator Steve Kardian; CNN legal analyst Lisa Bloom; Judge Karen Mills Francis, star of the new "Judge Karen`s Court," premiering this fall. And joining me on the phone, we are very honored to have Katie Calloway Hall, who was raped by Phillip Garrido way back in 1976. This creep was supposed to do 50 years. He got out in just over 10.
Katie, you are so very courageous to speak out and bear witness. You and Jaycee both survived similar attacks, although of different durations. What are your thoughts and observations on what Jaycee and her family are going through right now as they try to return to normalcy?
KATIE CALLOWAY HALL, RAPE SURVIVOR (via phone): Well, they look to be doing remarkably well. I watched that little clip this morning, too. And they look like they`re making progress in their healing process.
You have to remember this is a process, and it will take time. This is all they`re asking for. They just want some time.
And you know, Jane, it`s one of the main reasons why I have been so public and so vocal, be a constant reminder to everyone what a monster Garrido is, and to give Jaycee and her mom and their beautiful family unit some time to heal. That`s what they`re asking for.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I hope you`re right. And I think -- I made the same observation. They do seem happy. It`s not like they`re acting. They seem genuinely joyful to be reunited.
HALL: And another thing to remember is, when this happened to me, I was able to put a smile on and move forward. But inside for years, I was a traumatic -- traumatized mess. So you know, it`s just going to take time. No matter what you see on the outside, you know, Jaycee is putting on a strong face. And I`m sure she is making progress, but she needs time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to listen again to those three words from Jaycee. Here`s the clip once more. It`s short, but listen carefully, from ABC`s "Good Morning America."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUGARD: Hi. I`m Jaycee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a beautiful young woman. ABC is airing more from Jaycee tonight. But you could still get a sense of Jaycee, a glimpse of her spirit from that snippet.
Dr. Dale Archer, as a psychiatrist, what are your observations of Jaycee`s mental and emotional state?
DR. DALE ARCHER, PSYCHIATRIST: I think it`s fantastic, Jane. I really couldn`t be happier after seeing that clip this morning. I think that she`s doing everything right. The family is doing everything right. You know, it`s a series of small steps.
Essentially, what you`re doing after a traumatic event like that, is you`re reprogramming your normal. So hanging out in the kitchen, going to the store, going to do things together as family, those little steps one after another -- and don`t get me wrong, it takes a lot of time -- but that`s how eventually you get back to a normal life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But unfortunately or fortunately, there is a trial looming. And here`s my big issue: will Phillip and Nancy Garrido`s trial be healing or hellish for Jaycee and her family? The family is already grappling with the intense media glare.
Here`s Jaycee`s mom on "Good Morning America." listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROBYN: And it must be done on our terms. What my family needs is privacy during our healing process. Please, give us the time we need to heal as a family, without the prying eyes of the photographers and the press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, no doubt, this trial is going to be a media circus, and that won`t be easy for the Dugards. Maybe confronting Garrido will help Jaycee heal. But first of all, we have to ask Lisa, is she going to testify, do you think?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think she has to testify. And I think, whether it`s healing or hellish, it`s up to her.
I`ve represented so many sexual abuse survivors and rape victims who have testified and almost all of them thought that it was cathartic. It was empowering. And everybody needs to go to court and testify against these monsters. It`s the only way to convict them.
So I think Jaycee should get into court. She should do what she has to do. She should stare him down. She should hold her head high, because having a healthy life is the best revenge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More in 60 seconds as we analyze this monster and the fabulous family gathering together and trying to put it back together after escaping.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The judicial madness is already starting in the Phillip Garrido case. His defense attorneys, public defenders are seeking Jaycee, the victim`s, contact information, even as she remains at an undisclosed location with her mother, trying to heal. Of course, prosecutors say, uh-uh. And I agree with them 100 percent.
Judge Karen Mills Francis, they call it an attempt to manipulate Jaycee. I call it an attempt to intimidate Jaycee, almost as if Phillip Garrido is stalking his former captive from behind bars.
JUDGE KAREN MILLS FRANCIS, "JUDGE KAREN`S COURT": Well, in Florida, and like most states, if the defense wishes to take a sworn statement from a victim, they can reach that victim through the prosecutor`s office.
I don`t understand why they are specifically asking for the locations of this girl. She`s been through enough.
And you know, I listened to you talk about what it`s going to be like for her to testify in trial. This wasn`t a one-night rape case. This girl was with this man for 6,000 days. We don`t know what type of brainwashing he`s done. When the police went in, she had made up a story about who she was and who she wasn`t.
So I think it`s going to be terrifying for her to have to face him. I feel so sorry for her. My heart goes out to her. And I think it`s really unfair of the defense that they are harassing this girl when it`s necessary.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lisa, you hear the judge saying it`s going to be terrifying. You think it`s going to be a cathartic experience. What`s your response?
BLOOM: Well, it may be a little bit of each. With my clients, before they even testified, yes, they were always scared and they were always nervous. And I said, "You hold your head high. You go in there and you stare him down, and you just answer the questions truthfully, and you say what happened, and you`re going to get justice." And that`s what happened.
Afterwards, it was like a giant weight was off of their shoulders, because they climbed the mountain. They got to the top. They got to the other side. And they got accountability and justice. And they did it because they were courageous and brave, and they protected other people in the process.
So I think with Jaycee, with the right counseling and the right attorneys helping her, can do a terrific job. She looks great in that video, by the way. And I think she`s an inspiration to everyone who`s a rape survivor or a child sexual abuse survivor, that there is another side. You can get healthy. You can move on. You can live in the moment. It doesn`t have to define you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Katie Calloway Hall, you were kidnapped and raped by Phillip Garrido. Are you willing to testify in this case, and has anybody contacted you about the possibility of doing that?
CALLER: Yes, and yes, I am willing. And yes, I have talked to the D.A.`s office. They approached me and they said they may be calling me if this goes to trial. There is some new law in California that allows this. And I am absolutely going to do my part to put this monster again, hopefully forever. I mean, I`m sure it`s going to be forever. I will be watching from now on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And once again, he attacked you, Katie Calloway Hall, in 1976. He was supposed to go away for 50 years, and our junk justice system let him out after just over ten years. And they never even had the courtesy to call you and let you know this cretin was getting out. What an abomination.
You know, you`ve also got to wonder, what do Jaycee`s two teenage daughters know about their father? And what do they know about how they came into this world? Jaycee`s mom referred to her granddaughters on "Good Morning America." Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROBYN: Hi. I`m Terry Probyn, and on behalf of my daughters, Jaycee and Shana and my two awesome granddaughters, we`d like to thank you for all the love and support you`ve shown us these past few months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Lisa, I`ve got to wonder, what`s it going to be like for the teen daughters to experience this trial and see an objective look at what they were exposed to while they were living in this backyard ward of tents, thinking that that was normal, because that`s all they knew.
BLOOM: Right, Jane, very good point. And we don`t see them on this videotape. We don`t know how they are doing. I mean, they are still very young. They`re both minors. They have been through a heck of a lot. And I don`t know where they are in their healing process.
This has to be excruciating for them. They need a lot of counseling. But I think the only way through it is for them to know the truth, for them to know that their mother was kidnapped, that she was brainwashed, that they were all living as captives and that there`s a healthy life ahead of them, and then to get glimpses of that now, to move forward. But they`re old enough, I think, to know the truth. They have to know the truth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here on issues...
HALL: They grew up thinking Jaycee was their sister. They didn`t grow up thinking that Jaycee was their mother. And a few hours after this scumbag was arrested and he talked about his innocence, he said those, "Two girls, they would lie next to me in my bed at night." Do you remember that when he was first arrested? So we don`t know yet what he`s done to these two teenage girls either.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want go to this point, because I think it`s so crucial. Parole officers made 18 long years of mistakes in this case. This is what we`re talking about on ISSUES, junk justice. This is why we started a campaign, a movement called "Freedom from Fear," to get all of us together to say enough with this crazy, crazy broken criminal justice system.
Jaycee`s daughters, OK, were allowed out, the two teen daughters we`re talking about. They went to birthday parties in the neighborhood. They met the neighbors.
Now, parole officers visiting Phillip Garrido year after year, because he was on lifetime parole, never figured out there was this whole family living in the backyard. Didn`t they ever bother asking a neighbor what they knew?
Do parole officers, Steve Kardian, do they need to be completely retrained so that they act more like, well, at least a good local news reporter?
STEVE KARDIAN, FORMER CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: You know, Jane, you know I`m pro-law enforcement. But in this case, I can`t find anything good that they did. Had they even employed the simple task of using Google Earth just to take a look at that backyard, they would have been able to see what was going on...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a great point.
KARDIAN: ... that that campground. Yes. And yes, they do need to be overhauled. The inspector general found so many opportunities for them to have revealed what was going on behind those walls. So yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It gets worse than that. The cops -- somebody called 911 and said, "Hey, there`s a family living back there. I can hear kids in the backyard."
The cop went there, talked to Phillip in the front yard, and decided there was no criminal activity occurring.
Cops say Jaycee Dugard was trapped in Phillip Garrido`s hell for 18 long years. Now this monster claims there`s another side to this story. He says he`s turned his life around. Give me a break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP GARRIDO, KIDNAPPING AND RAPE SUSPECT: My life has been straightened out. Wait until you hear the story of what took place at this house. And you`re going to be absolutely impressed. It`s a disgusting thing that took place with me in the beginning. But I turned my life completely around. And to be able to understand it, you have to start (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. LEONARD ORMAN, ANTIOCH POLICE DEPARTMENT: There was a period of time where she ended up at a motel with Mr. Garrido, after being given more barbiturates and basically awoke, found herself there, and was repeatedly raped and sexually assaulted at that time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but it`s not business as usual anymore. We`re waging war on the war on women and junk justice.
Given the hell Jaycee Dugard endured, it`s truly miraculous she survived. And we`re getting a first glimpse at her new life and her recovery. Here`s a home video of the Dugards from ABC`s "Good Morning America."
That`s Jaycee on the left. There she is on the left. She`s shaking something. I think they`re making cookies with Mom and her half sister.
Back to my panel. Lisa Bloom, let`s talk defense strategy. They`re already hinting they`re going to argue he`s incompetent to stand trial. What`s the difference between incompetent to stand trial and being found not guilty by reason of insanity after the trial?
BLOOM: Great question. And being incompetent to stand trial is a very, very low standard. Basically, you`re asked, do you know what your name is? Do you know what today is? Do you know what this is? This is a courtroom. It`s a very, very low standard, and most people are found competent to stand trial.
Insanity is a very difficult standard to show, that you`re not guilty by reason of insanity. You have to show that you had a mental condition or defect that was so bad that you couldn`t appreciate the difference between right and wrong.
Well, the fact is that he had these girls in captivity in his backyard, hidden from view. Clearly, he knew that what he was doing was wrong, because he was hiding it. So I don`t see an insanity defense here.
I also think he probably is competent to stand trial. Look, he`s got some psychological issues, no question about it, but I don`t think it will be enough to avoid a guilty conviction in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Judge Karen, let`s talk about Nancy Garrido, the wife, who was a nurse`s aide and who sort of lived -- there she is -- a semi-normal life during this bizarre 18-year ordeal. Apparently, she`s going to probably argue, "Oh, I was brainwashed." Will that hold water in court?
FRANCIS: I don`t think it`s going to hold any water. She also knew what she was doing. I mean, she had plenty of opportunities to leave him. She wasn`t confined, like Jaycee was confined. And I understood that she was very complicit in the things that were done to Jaycee.
So you know, it`s all water under the bridge now. Now, they`re trying to find a way out of the trouble that they got themselves in. But if they hadn`t gotten caught, they would have been living this normal family life for who knows how much longer.
KARDIAN: Jane, let`s not forget...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Junk justice.
KARDIAN: ... three-month period. She had a three-month period in which he went back in on violation of parole, when she could have turned and renounced herself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Got to go. We`re going to stay on top of this story.
Coming up, we`re looking for answers, demanding change. Chelsea King was killed. She didn`t have to die.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In the "Spotlight" tonight, cow cruelty outrage. "Food Inc.," up for an Academy Award, focuses on the horrors of factory farming. One extremely disturbing practice happening all over the country is the slicing off of cow`s tails. That`s right; they slice them right off to make the cows easier to handle.
Mercy for Animals, an organization went under cover at a New York dairy farm and said, among numerous cruelties, it saw workers using sharp blades to cut through the calves` tails, severing the animals` nerve, skin and spine.
You know, the worst video is way too graphic for us to show you here on television. Now, the farm owner claims the undercover video was taken out of context.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LYNDON ODELL, WILLET DAIRY FARMS: I`m disappointed, because I think what they`ve done is they`ve pick out a few isolated incidents, and they`re trying to portray them as something that is malicious on our part.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joining me now, New York state assembly member Linda Rosenthal, who proposed a new law to ban tail docking.
Linda, why did you feel the need to propose this bill?
LINDA ROSENTHAL, NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY MEMBER: You know, after viewing that undercover video, I was just horrified. The cows were abused in every possible way, from slicing, having their tails cut off, to being kicked, to being hit over the head with implements and instruments. It was just horrifying.
And here in New York state, we have the opportunity to become leaders in the humane treatment of animals. So I proposed this bill to get us on the road to that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this tail docking that happens, it`s not just painful at that moment, and then according to the claims, they use some kind of a hot implement to sear, to sear it, but it`s got be painful for a long time.
ROSENTHAL: Exactly. I mean, the cow endures tremendous pain at the moment of the tail being cut off or burned off, but it also endures chronic pain for the rest of its life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, in 2009, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger banned tail docking in California, the largest dairy producing state in the nation. New York is the third largest. Several European nations have banned this practice outright.
ROSENTHAL: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But most of the industry, Linda, knows tail docking is unnecessary.
Are people waking up to this issue of factory farm cruelty because of these undercover investigation and movies like "Food Inc."?
ROSENTHAL: Definitely. I mean, people all over the country and in New York state, as well, are becoming very sensitive to the treatment of animals. They may consume animal products, but they don`t want the animals to suffer while they`re alive. And we must stop this horrific, inhumane practice here in New York state.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, some in the industry say, well, you know, it`s taken out of context. That`s what the farmer here said.
Now, according to the Humane Society of the United States, a 2001 survey found that about half of all U.S. dairy operations practice this tail docking or the slicing off of the cow`s tail. So which is it: an aberration or standard procedure?
ROSENTHAL: Well, this is old, old science from the early 1900s, when it was thought to be beneficial. Most educated and enlightened people these days know that it`s just bunk, and they refrain from doing it. I`ve spoken to many farmers who raise animals, and they do it in a humane fashion.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But -- but the industry is not humane. I mean, this is what we`re seeing in "Food Inc." and undercover investigations, that it`s rampant. It`s not an exception.
ROSENTHAL: Exactly. Well, that is true. And we have to -- we have to implement laws that prohibit and punish those who continue the inhumane practices.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda Rosenthal, thank you so much.
ROSENTHAL: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Parents of Chelsea King speak out next.
ROSENTHAL: Thank you. Thanks very much.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, heartache turns to outrage. Chelsea King`s parents demand answers.
KELLY KING, CHELSEA KING`S MOTHER: How many times do our daughters need to be raped before we put these monsters behind bars forever?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, ISSUES joins the parents` fight spearheading a new movement. How can we scrap junk justice and achieve freedom from fear?
Tonight: unbelievably heart-wrenching words from the parents of Chelsea King, who are trying to come to grips with their daughter`s horrific death. Their beautiful 17-year-old daughter was found dead in a San Diego park, where she went jogging last Thursday. Her parents say they`ve now been told how she died but they would not share that information when they appeared on "LARRY KING LIVE" last night, understandable.
And here`s the man cops say did it, convicted sex offender -- convicted sex offender -- John Gardner III. He pleaded not guilty to rape and murder. Police say his semen was found on Chelsea`s underwear.
This is a guy who molested a 13-year-old girl and beat her in 2000. And he may be linked to as many as seven other incidents with women or girls.
Chelsea`s mother went to court to see him in person and says it turned her stomach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. KING: I don`t know that I can find the words to tell you. I`m looking at the face of the monster that murdered my daughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gardner served only five years -- five years -- for molesting and beating a 13-year-old thanks to a plea deal back in 2000.
Kelly King wants to know why this monster was on the loose and able to prey on her beautiful daughter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. KING: How many times do our daughters need to be raped before we put these monsters behind bars forever?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Her parents are determined to help fight for change in sex offender laws and enforce the laws that already exist. They are determined to prevent other parents from going through this unimaginable horror.
Here on ISSUES, we`re starting a campaign -- a movement called "Freedom from Fear" asking individuals and organizations and other media groups to band together to demand an end to this junk justice. There is strength in numbers.
My fantastic panel is back along with Erin Runnion, who joins us. Erin is the mother of precious Samantha Runnion who was abducted at the age of 5 from her home and murdered in 2000.
Erin, thank you so much joining us.
ERIN RUNNION, DAUGHTER WAS ABDUCTED AND MURDERED IN 2000: Thank you for having me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your courage of speaking out is so inspiring. We thank you for having that courage.
You founded the Joyful Child Foundation after your daughter was killed to help keep other children safe. Can you describe what the King family is going through right now?
RUNNION: Honestly, there are no words. It is -- it`s surreal, I remember feeling like I was walking under water. It just was so hard to believe that she was gone, that she suffered such trauma, such fear. All of these thoughts are going through your head for a very long time. It takes a while to come out of that fog. But it sounds to me like they`re incredibly strong.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are they in shock right now?
RUNNION: Yes. They are in shock. They are in shock and shock is a beautiful thing. I think -- I remember feeling very strong for a while and then all of a sudden, that went away and I had to dig deeper. But I think their family is doing an incredible job speaking out already, absolutely incredible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We hear about the various stages of grief: anger, denial, depression.
RUNNION: I`ll tell you, when I was going through them, I hated it when people talked about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Really?
RUNNION: I did. It just seemed like -- I think it`s true. I`m not denying that it`s true. The fact of the matter is that for each of us and for everybody who knew Chelsea, everybody had a different relationship with them -- with her and their grief is individual. Everybody grieves differently, every relationship, everybody lost a different Chelsea.
And that is very sacred, that kind of grief process. The anger and denial, all of that is true. And some of it doesn`t go away. When your anger is justified, it`s hard to let that go.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you see a horror story like this, a girl, raped and murdered, didn`t have to happen --
RUNNION: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- does that reignite your grief over the loss of your precious 5-year-old daughter?
RUNNION: Absolutely. Every story does. But at the same time, it also strengthens my conviction. It gets me angry again that we are still seeing cases like this.
I cannot believe that this man was sentenced to six years for brutally beating and raping a 13-year-old. What does that say about the way we value our children as a society? We give predators so much credit. Second, third, fourth chances, we give them all the benefit of the doubt in the world and yet we let our children get raped and give them a slap on the wrist. It`s just unbelievable to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know you`ve already told me that you want to be part of our movement that we`re start here on ISSUES which we`re calling "Freedom from Fear", a campaign against violence in this society. The basic goal is we should have freedom from fear. We should be able to walk around without being terrified that something is going to happen to us or our loved ones. And I think -- would you like to join in on that?
RUNNION: Absolutely. Absolutely. That is a fantastic campaign. That`s -- it`s very similar to what we`re doing at the Joyful Child where our call to action is "not one more child". And we`re asking communities and community leaders to take a stand, to declare that they are not going to have one more child in our community taken. We do that through education and awareness.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But beyond that, I think what you`re doing is fantastic. But we`ve been educating and we`ve been making aware. Something has got to change with our broken junk justice criminal justice system.
How do we get there? When we catch predators like Gardner, we need to lock them up for as long as possible.
RUNNION: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We already have tools to achieve these goals. Psychological evaluation and civil commitments are just two of them.
RUNNION: Listen, in Gardner`s case, they used it.
KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, HOST, "JUDGE KAREN SHOW": This is a political issue. When there was a war on drug in the `80s, several states and the federal government enacted minimum mandatory laws. That`s why there are more non-violent criminals in jail than there are criminals -- I mean than violent criminals.
There`s no minimum mandatory penalty for sex offenders. I read on the Justice Department Web site that at any given time, there are 500 violent sexual predators on the loose in New York City -- at any given time.
We need to be talking to our legislators. We need to make this a political issue so that they can make changes in the law. That this man who got ten years ended up out in five. He shouldn`t have gotten ten years; he should have been there for the rest of his life. There need to be mandatory penalties for people who abuse children and rape women.
RUNNION: Absolutely. We also need to go a step beyond and hold our prosecutors and our district attorneys` offices accountable to actually prosecute these cases. I am so sick of hearing about one case after another being pled down to a misdemeanor.
MILLS-FRANCIS: A lot of times these cases get pled down because the victim is afraid to go forward to trial, that happens a lot in the system.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, ok? I don`t necessarily buy that. I think the prosecution uses that as an excuse because they don`t want to go to trial because they`d rather wrap it up nice and neat and put that one away in a little box so they can move on to the next case.
MILLS-FRANCIS: I never felt that in the justice system, Jane. I believe that you`d be surprised at how many people -- you`ve already been victimized once sexually and to have to walk into a courtroom full of people that you don`t know and tell this embarrassing story again under cross-examination is very traumatic --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Studies have shown that it`s actually a way to achieve healing. Ok?
DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I agree with you, Jane --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
ARCHER: And I agree with Lisa before, it is absolutely a way to heal. It`s a way for the woman to get up there, to look that guy in the eye and know, when it`s all over, that she has faced down her fear and she has made a difference and has done something good.
At the end of that, almost universally, they`ll say, "You know, I didn`t want to do it, I hated to do it but after I did it, I feel so good and I feel like that absolutely has helped me heal."
MILLS-FRANCIS: We need to make sure --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time.
MILLS-FRANCIS: We need to make sure once that jury convicts him, though, that he goes away forever. He should go away forever. They have the highest recidivism rate among all offenders, sexual predators do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if you don`t have the victim testifying, it`s hard to send them away forever. Ok?
RUNNION: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay right where you are. We are not backing down from this outrage. Our system is broken. It`s junk justice. Now is the time for us to come together and demand change.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENT KING, CHELSEA KING`S FATHER: I never feared something like this. Did I fear for my daughter? I think every father fears tragedy for his child and tries to protect against that but I never could imagine something like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. KING: I took off down the running trail that I assumed that she was on, running as fast as I could and yelling her name. At the same time, Kelly had called 911. And I went out there and shouted at the top of my lungs and got no response and had several different trail choices to make. And my best choice, I thought, was to come back and find the sheriff and get him to try and help us search.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There is outrage in the neighborhood where John Gardner lived on and off with his mother. We saw the graffiti on the garage door of his mother`s home earlier this week in Rancho Bernardo, in bright red spray paint, the words "Chelsea`s blood is on you, move out."
Chelsea`s mother thinks Gardner`s mother should have done more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. KING: You know, I have a real problem with the fact that he was allowed to be there, first of all. And that when news broke of this and you -- you have a son who have a past like this, as a mother, how can you not at least think about it and think about the possibility of what may have happened and how you may know something?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gardner`s mother had to have known he was a convicted sex offender, after all her son did five years in prison. Now remember, he was staying with his mom, reportedly, but his address on the registry, the Sex Offender Registry was like two hours away.
Judge Karen, should it be a crime to house a sex offender in a place where a sex offender shouldn`t be in the first place?
MILLS-FRANCIS: Well, Jane, in most states, accessory after the fact, which is really what this law is, does not apply to family members. So his mother wouldn`t even be able -- his mother wouldn`t be able to be prosecuted because she had him.
And also, mothers love us unconditionally. I saw it as a judge on the bench all the time. Mothers always stick up for their sons no matter what they do.
The bigger question though is where do we put these people? Where do we put these violent sexual predators?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In prison.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Because they`ve got to live somewhere --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In prison.
MILLS-FRANCIS: -- that`s the problem. They need to be in prison.
And in Florida, we have a law called the Jimmy Ryce Law. And it calls for involuntary civil commitment for anybody that`s convicted of a sexual offense. I don`t care if you`ve got a year in prison, five years in prison, if you`re convicted of a sexual offense then there is a review of your case at the end of your sentence and there is a hearing to determine whether or not you have a high probability of re-offending.
If you do, you don`t get out of jail.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s it, ok --
MILLS-FRANCIS: There`s a lot of people in jail in Florida that are not getting out of jail because they can`t pass this Jimmy Ryce provision.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, here is my big issue. We need to be proactive, not so reactive. Our justice system seems only to kick into high gear after the crime. Chelsea`s dad wants harsher sentences for sex offenders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
B. KING: I don`t want people that ever have any kind of one strike on them to have more than one strike on them. They shouldn`t be allowed to have a second strike. Larry, I don`t understand why somebody who`s done what this person`s done in the past should have the exact same freedoms that I have. I don`t understand that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a dysfunctional pattern in police work, Casey Jordan, criminologist. Millions and millions gets spent on searchers and divers and helicopters and everything you`re looking at there and detectives and prosecutors after the murder.
But we`re penny-pinching before the murder. A couple months before Chelsea disappeared another female jogger was attacked in the very same park. And cops did not get a sketch because she returned home to her home in Colorado. Now, if they had hopped on a Jet Blue flight and gone to Colorado in coach and gotten a sketch, maybe that would have cost a couple of grand, certainly not what it cost to hunt for a murderer and to search for a body.
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Oh, I`m all about continuing funding for police investigations. But when you talk about harsher sentences, you`ve got to ask where are our criminal justice dollars going? And if it`s going towards prisons and the person still are going to get out and we`ve done no assessment, no treatment, no determination of whether this person is a predator, one size does not fit all with sexual offenders.
Some are predators, some are not. Some respond to treatment, a lot do not. You need to put your money into assessment with -- with psychiatrist, psychologists, behavioral scientists --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to jump in Casey because there was an assessment --
(CROSSTALK)
JORDAN: -- and keeping them behind bars.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There was an assessment done on this guy in 2000 and a psychiatrist said -- basically warned he`s going to do it again. He showed not a scintilla of remorse. He has not taken responsibility for his actions. So the assessment was done on this character in 2000. And despite that assessment by a psychiatrist, they allowed him to serve only five years.
JORDAN: I can almost guarantee you it wasn`t by a psychiatrist.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, it was by a psychiatrist.
ARCHER: No, no.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Dale Archer, back me up.
ARCHER: Yes, it was by a psychiatrist, without a doubt. It was a colleague of mine. And the bottom line is, it`s not rocket science to do these assessments. It`s very, very straightforward. Is there a guilt? Is there remorse? Is there acceptance of responsibility that you did it wrong and not trying to assign blame?
Sometimes they`ll say, "Oh she was 13, she looked 21. Oh, she dressed seductively. Oh, she was flirting with me." You know, at the end of the day, if any of those things are there, that is a red flag that says this person will not be rehabilitated. I`ve had guys tell me they didn`t think they did anything wrong.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Absolutely.
ARCHER: And if you get that, it`s an absolute conviction that this person will do it again and you need to throw them under the jail and throw away the key.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS-FRANCIS: It should be a strict liability crime, strict liability. You rape a child and you`re convicted, you don`t get out of jail. You`re convicted of rape, you don`t get out of jail. There doesn`t have to be a question about whether or not she seduced you, whether or not you can be released back into society.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me jump in and discuss some complications here. This suspect is now 30. When this happened, he was now 20. Now, I think the criteria for keeping him behind bars for a long time was the sexual molestation combined with the fact that in 2000 when he molested that girl, he pummeled her face violently.
ARCHER: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve had e-mails from people who have been convicted of sexual offenses saying, oh, you know, I looked at a magazine and I got caught or I was on the Internet and I went onto the wrong site and now my life is ruined. We have to be careful to prioritize these predators so that we catch --
MILLS-FRANCIS: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- the serious ones and lock them up.
ARCHER: But the violent --
MILLS-FRANCIS: And then, and then --
ARCHER: -- yes, the violent predators are absolutely the ones that you have to target, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m right.
ARCHER: So if the violence is at the same time, that is absolutely of different parameter and you have different set of rules that you have to look at. And in this particular case, he met all of that and had a psychiatric assessment who said the guy is going to do it again, throw him in jail for the maximum 30 years. They didn`t do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they come right back.
JORDAN: But 30 years, he`s still would have done it again. Even after 30 years, he`s going to go out and --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Chelsea would be alive right now.
ARCHER: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We can`t think that way.
MILLS-FRANCIS: But somebody else might not be alive later on. They don`t need to get out of jail. They don`t need to get out at all.
JORDAN: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everybody, stay right where you are. We are sticking with the war on women. This is an ISSUES call to action. Join our new movement. Declare your freedom from fear.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chelsea`s mom gave us an intimate look into her daughter`s world when she read a poem Chelsea recently wrote for a college application. It`s called "The Great Balancing Act and the words are chilling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. KING: "Oh the places I`ll go, I know certainly not. I know, though, I know that wherever I go I`ll learn a great many things, not just about history or math, but in fact, about the great balancing act.
I`ll travel great distance. I`ll live far from home. I might just find myself all alone, but nevertheless find myself I will and thus, I will go and continue to grow."
It continues on then. And she ends, "For I am myself and this will not change. Today is my day, my mountain is waiting and I`m on my way."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. That`s a heartbreaker. You can go to Chelsea`s Light on Facebook for information on her memorial service. It`s going to be on Saturday March 13th at 2:00. The location has not been announced.
Erin Runnion, listening to that mother read that poem, it`s just -- there are no words. For parents, part of the torture is everything that doesn`t happen as the child is not there.
RUNNION: Absolutely. Yes. You lose the person and you lose all that they were to you and all that they might have been. It`s just heartbreaking on every possible level.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know you said that these parents are in shock. When does the shock wear off and then what happens after the shock wears off?
RUNNION: You know, for me it was a few months. I think it`s fair to say that about three months the shock wore off and then anger set in.
But you know, as we were talking about earlier, I think a big part of that healing process for me was recognizing that I had a responsibility not just to Samantha but the other countless child victims that are out there. The more I learned about this cause and crimes against children in general, that`s where my healing started. And recognizing that what happened to my daughter was on the extreme end of the spectrum of crimes against children.
And I think that that`s where Chelsea`s family is headed. That`s a strong path.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Steve Kardian, some might say, wow, the Kings have another child, a 13-year-old son. But that boy is also the brother to a murder victim and he is said to be taking this very, very hard. This fractures the whole family, does it not?
STEVE KARDIAN, DIRECTOR, DEFEND UNIVERSITY: Yes, Jane. 30 years in law enforcement we`ve seen so many tragedies. This is something that`s going to bear on them and wear on them for the rest of their life. There is no solace; there is no comfort that anyone can give them right now.
And you know the only thing that they can do is move on, try and make changes to the system and try and make the predators pay for what they do. They should be incarcerated or put down, period.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have to make major changes to the system. It`s not just about incarcerating. That`s part of it, but it`s about being proactive. If a sign had been up on that park merely warning that another female jogger had been attacked recently in that same park, Chelsea probably wouldn`t have gone jogging alone.
That`s cheap. That`s easy. That`s something that`s common sense. That`s the kind of thing that needs to happen, too.
Thank you, fabulous panel. You`re watching ISSUES on HLN.
END
