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American Morning
Man Opens Fire on Pentagon Security Officers on Thursday; Some Demanding Names of Attorneys Who Represented Terror Suspects; Department of Justice Witch Hunt: Push to Name Those Who Represented Terror Suspects; Underemployment Rate on the Rise; Getting Tougher on Iran, Thanks to Hillary Clinton
Aired March 05, 2010 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. Glad you're with us on this Friday. It's March 5th. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Acosta. John Roberts is off today, but we have lots to tell you this morning and some big stories we'll tell you about in the next 15 minutes.
Investigators are checking to see if a gunman who opened fire on two officers in front of the Pentagon last night has ties to any terror group. He's identified as 36-year-old, John Patrick Bedell of California who, though, died overnight after he was shot in the head after he slightly wounded two officers.
CHETRY: Also, President Obama who once blasted former president Bush for his use of military tribunals is reportedly being urged by his own advisers to do the same to try the self-professed 9/11 mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as well as four other co- conspirators in a military tribunal rather than in civilian federal court. We're getting new details on this this morning.
ACOSTA: Plus, a political action groups wants the attorney general to start naming names. They want to know which Department of Justice staffers have represented terror suspects in the past. Is that a fair question, or is this just a witch hunt? We'll hear from both sides, coming up.
CHETRY: We're also following a developing story this morning. Police are now identifying the man who opened fire on two security officers outside of the Pentagon last night. They identified the suspect who was shot and killed by the way as 36-year-old John Patrick Bedell of California.
Police say he was well armed and he had two nine millimeter semiautomatic weapons with him. The officers who exchanged gunfire with him suffering minor injuries, one shot in the thigh, the other in the shoulder. They'll be OK.
So far there's no word on a possible motive, but police are saying that the suspect had doubts about fact behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks. In just a moment Barbara Starr will take us inside the Pentagon to examine the new security measures.
First, we'll go to Chris Lawrence live at the Pentagon. He was at the news conference and he has an update for us this morning. Good morning, Chris. Did we learn anything else in the last hour?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kiran, I think the most important thing is the two Pentagon police officers who were shot, they're out of the hospital. They're recovering. The suspect, Bedell, the shooter, is dead.
We're just scratching the surface of finding out how and why this happened. The police are now saying he came armed with several guns. They found his car parked nearby, not too far from the Pentagon, with more ammunition inside.
How did it happen? He walked up to where the Pentagon police officers screen everyone for IDs. In fact, it's where we go every day. He walked up. The police say he was well dressed. He didn't say anything. He seemed calm and cool just like the thousands of people who come through that entrance every day the same way I do.
He walked up. Apparently he had his coat on. He went to reach inside his coat. The police officers thought he was just pulling out an ID like everyone else does. He pulled out a gun and started shooting at pointblank range. But those bullets only grazed those officers. They returned fire and shot and critically wounded him. Kiran?
CHETRY: Chris, you are also learning more about the man, John Patrick Bedell and his anti-government sentiment.
LAWRENCE: Exactly. First, let's take a look at exactly what police are saying about a possible motive about this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD KEEVILL, PENTAGON POLICE CHIEF: It appears he's had some issues in the past. He has had a couple contacts with the law. He's very well educated individual.
Right now, we don't know if we have a motive yet. There's no indication at this point that there are any domestic or international terrorism nexus to this at all. It's probably at this time it appears to be a single individual that had issues.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE: OK, so he had issues. OK. Well, what are those? Well, we believe when he talks about contact with the law enforcement he's talking about a court case about four years ago that involved Bedell going to court about cultivating marijuana and resisting police.
As to his feelings about the government, we have obtained some audiotapes that we believe are from Bedell on a Web site in which he rails about the government, the government control of money, the government control of schools, and the government's hand in certain things like the September 11th attacks.
Take a listen to this audio that we believe is from Bedell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN PATRICK BEDELL, ALLEGED PENTAGON SHOOTER: To prevent themselves from being enslaved, the powerful masters of our existing governments use every means at their disposal, including bribery, theft, and murder to control those governments which are imperfect institutions operated by imperfect individuals.
In order to properly address these very serious matters, it is necessary to recognize the importance of enduring principles for setting as positive direction that we can pursue, mindful of the real threats that we must overcome.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAWRENCE: That only scratched the surface. You can tell that he's well educated. He's well spoken. But his complaints against the government, you know, cut of a wide and broad area. There's no one specific thing that he was aiming some of his anger at. Kiran?
CHETRY: All right, we'll be checking in with you throughout the morning as you get new information and details as well. Chris Lawrence for us outside the Pentagon. Thank you.
ACOSTA: Joining us now is Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, there were some major security changes made at the Pentagon after September 11th, and it appears those changes were a big help last night.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It does look that way, Jim. After 9/11 what they did is all of the entrances of the building they put security further away from the building. There's perimeter security now, several hundred yards away at each entrance. That's where this happened. You have to go through checkpoints.
You either have to show a building pass or have someone arrange to come meet you who is escorting you into the building. Officers at every one of these entrances checking those passes, checking those IDs for this very reason, trying to keep any trouble further away from the building so nobody can get inside who shouldn't be.
ACOSTA: Let me just ask you because this happened at the Pentagon, and the gentleman, the suspect who is dead in his ramblings about September 11th, this must really eat at folks who work at the Pentagon, particularly those who are there for September 11th to hear some of these nonsensical ramblings that come from these truthers out there who have this strange feeling that the government had something to do with September 11th.
STARR: As someone who was in the building that day, I can tell you it just brings back a lot of memories for many people. And the Pentagon these days, it's also worth noting not only the people who have continued to work there since the morning of 9/11, but many of the military people, hundreds, thousands, having completed combat tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan putting their own live at risk now back at duty inside the Pentagon.
And certainly thee ramblings on the Internet, I don't even know what to say about it, because if you were there that morning, it defies reality -- 184 people died in that building. It was an airplane commanded by terrorists that hit the building.
And these kinds of events really bring back some of what happened that day. And for the 9/11 families I can only imagine how upsetting this is.
CHETRY: Jim and I were also noting that it is five months to the day of the Fort Hood shooting that happened in November. Suspect Major Nidal Hasan opening fire there, and now we see this five months later, the second attack on a military installation.
STARR: It's really tough, because, as we know, tens of thousands of people go in and out of these places every day, 20,000 people work in the Pentagon. So that's 40,000 over a business day in and back out.
And it's very difficult. If someone is determined to cause one of these events, they are probably going to be able to at least challenge security, not hopefully get past it.
Military bases, they are secure. They are not open to the general public. But they are not in lockdown most of the time. There are thousands of people that move in and out of them and that's the way they have for function. So it's this kind of security, perimeter security that really has come into what's the best way to deal with this.
ACOSTA: The Pentagon, as we know, is close to Pentagon City, which is a major shopping mall just a few blocks away from the Pentagon so the public does have access to the area around the Pentagon making this potential --
STARR: Hundreds of schoolchildren come in and out of that building every day on public tours. They line up at that entrance. This thankfully was not worse.
CHETRY: You're absolutely right. It just shows you the security guards and the Pentagon police putting their lives at risk every day and this is an example of that. Barbara Starr, thank you.
ACOSTA: Thank you.
Also new this morning, what could be major reversal from the Obama administration. The White House is now reportedly leaning toward a military trial for the self-proclaimed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other suspects. That's according to reports in "The Washington Post" and Associated Press.
Republicans and Democrats have blasted the administration's decision to try them in civilian court just blocks away from ground zero. Kiran?
CHETRY: There is some chilling new video of one of the killer waves that slammed into a cruise ship off of the coast of Spain earlier this week. This is a 26-foot high wave just crashing right through the windows.
You see panicked passengers running for their lives and water just spilling right into the dining area there. Two people were killed in this incident. The Greek-based ship was on the last day of a trip through the Mediterranean.
ACOSTA: And four ferries carrying about 1,000 passers are safely back in the port of Stockholm, Sweden this morning. Dozens of ships and boats were trapped along the Swedish coastline.
(WEATHER BREAK)
ACOSTA: It's 11 minutes past the hour right now. When we come back, the Most News in the Morning, the Justice Department under fire because of lawyers who once represented accused terrorist at Guantanamo Bay and they're now working with the Justice Department. Some lawmakers are demanding names.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: It's 14 minutes past the hour. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
There's a new political ad that's asking Attorney General Eric Holder to name Department of Justice staffers who have represented terror detainees in the past.
Some lawmakers on Capitol Hill say that's a fair question. On the other side, some legal experts both Republicans and Democrats are saying it's a witch-hunt.
Our Jeanne Meserve joins us now from D.C. this morning with more. Good morning, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kiran.
So should the Department of Justice be called the "department of jihad"? An advocacy spot from a group headed by Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter, Liz, and a 9/11 family member, poses that question. And even some members of the Bush-Cheney administration say it's over the line.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): Some lawyers who have represented Guantanamo detainees are now officials in the U.S. Justice Department. And a spot posted by the group Keep America Safe raises questions about where their loyalty lies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: Whose values do they share? Tell Eric Holder Americans have a right to know the identity of the Al Qaeda 7.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MESERVE: The Obama White House calls it bizarre and even some former Bush administration lawyers say it goes too far.
JOHN BELLINGER, FMR. BUSH ADMINISTRATION LAWYER: I think those sorts of cheap shots suggesting that a lawyer who was simply defending a client somehow shares those views are really inappropriate.
MESERVE: Keep America Safe say its ad isn't McCarthyism. We're asking for transparency. That's why Senator Charles Grassley says he's been pressing since November for the names of Justice officials who previously represented or advocated for detainees.
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I'm not questioning ethics being violated. I want information so I know that ethics are not being violated.
MESERVE: Others say ethics are being violated if any lawyers of those lawyers are now involved in setting government detainee policy.
REP. FRANK WOLF (R), APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: If you have been a lawyer and have been representing the mafia or organized crime, it would be a conflict of interest for you then to come into the administration or into the Justice Department and put together organized crime policies.
MESERVE: A simple Internet search will turn up the names of the Justice Department lawyers who previously represented detainees but the Justice Department will not provide a full list. A spokesman says we will not participate in an attempt to drag people's names through the mud for political purposes. He adds it is offensive that their patriotism is being questioned. And some lawyers of different political strife agree.
BELLINGER: John Adams represented "Tories" who were accused of treason back in the revolution. This is the sort of work that we ought to be applauding, not attacking.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: The Justice Department says its lawyers often work in areas that overlap their prior practice and strict ethics rules prevent conflicts of interests. Some DOJ lawyers have been recused from matters regarding specific detainees who they or their firms have represented, but they have been authorized to participate in other detainee matters, Kiran.
CHETRY: And this also must complicate the matter. I mean, the big question that's still happening right now of sort of what to do reaching some sort of resolution on what to do with those Gitmo detainees.
MESERVE: Yes, Kiran. It's like so many other things in Washington. There's been a lot of name calling frankly on both sides of the issue, people who are very serious about detainee issues. Some of them I talked to yesterday are wringing their hands saying these are very serious matters. There are legitimate concerns on both sides. People should be talking and trying to reach compromise and resolution rather than inflaming the issue. It's like so many other things happening here in Washington, Kiran.
CHETRY: Jeanne Meserve with an "A.M. Original" for us this morning. Thanks so much.
MESERVE: You bet.
CHETRY: Jim?
ACOSTA: Thanks, Kiran and Jeanne. Up next on the Most News in the Morning, we're taking a closer look at employment figures and how the picture may not be exactly what you think. Christine Romans is "Minding Your Business."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Twenty-one minutes past the hour. It means we're "Minding Your Business" right now.
Toyota is accused of withholding crash data stored in devices much like airlines or airplanes black boxes that might explain sudden acceleration problems. An "Associated Press" review of the company's lawsuits found that it has been secretive about recorded information including whether the driver was hitting the brake or the accelerator at the time of any crash or incidents. The review also showed Toyota frequently refusing to give the data to crash victims or survivors.
Well, despite a bountiful catch in the last year, lobstermen are finding that the job just isn't paying well. The Maine lobster industry reports about $22 million drop in revenue from the prior year. Experts say that cruise ships, typically the largest customers of lobster are cutting back their orders of the delicacy because of the poor economy -- Jim.
ACOSTA: Thank you very much, Kiran. And Christine Romans is "Minding Your Business" this morning. And, Kiran (ph), we have you at the magic wall this morning. We're looking at underemployment state by state across the country, and some of these numbers are very disturbing.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Underemployment different than unemployment. We're going to get the underemployment in a little more than an hour, right?
Underemployment, some of these people are working but, Jim, they're not living up to their potential. They're not working a job that is getting them as much money as they used to or they're working part-time.
I want to show you this map. If you are looking at red or pink -- bad, bad, bad.
ACOSTA: Right.
ROMANS: This means an underemployment rate 16.2 percent or higher. In 2009, the average underemployment rate for the whole country was 16.2 percent. Just not really something that's very sustainable.
Look at Michigan.
ACOSTA: Wow.
ROMANS: We talk about the unemployment rate of 13.6 percent for Michigan. Look at the underemployment. This is one-fifth of that economy not working up to its potential. This is a really serious situation.
Then you look at the Midwest. You look at the yellow, the green, this part of the country is doing much better than average. But even when you look at South Dakota -- sorry, South Dakota, let me turn you upside down -- 4.8 percent is the unemployment rate. And we say, look, this is the best in the country. This is fantastic.
ACOSTA: Right.
ROMANS: But even within the good statistics, you see 9.9 percent underemployment.
ACOSTA: A lot of folks still struggling.
ROMANS: That means a lot of people still are not working up to their potential. And this is why it's so important for an economy that's driven two-thirds by consumer spending.
ACOSTA: Wow.
ROMANS: If you have a job in this country, it's going to gallop. Your average daily spending, this is not on your mortgage, not in your fixed expenses.
ACOSTA: Right.
ROMANS: This is discretionary spending -- $75 a day. If you're underemployment, it's $48 a day. This is why an economy has a hard time coming back when so many people are out of work. It means you're pulling back on every other part of your life and the economy is just doesn't living up to its potential.
So underemployment incredibly important even as we're talking about jobs starting to be created here, and here.
ACOSTA: Yes.
ROMANS: And a little bit in the Midwest. Manufacturing coming back a little bit in the Midwest. Overall, we're still concerned about this underemployment rate.
ACOSTA: It would be great to come back a year from now and just see more green.
ROMANS: I like green.
ACOSTA: Or at least some yellow.
ROMANS: Green chutes. We've been talking about green chutes for a year.
ACOSTA: Yes. But this underemployment figure, I mean, that's a serious problem and it can't be emphasized enough.
ROMANS: Yes. Yes.
ACOSTA: Christine Romans, thank you so much for that. Appreciate that.
Now, still ahead on the Most News in the Morning. Was Hillary Rodham Clinton right? A closer look at the secretary of state is influencing America's dealings with Iran.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning right now. I know we're just doing research up to the last second here.
ACOSTA: Yes. Yes.
CHETRY: It's 27 minutes past the hour. Your top stories just three minutes away. First, though, we have an "A.M. Original" for you. It's something you'll only see on AMERICAN MORNING.
After a long and bitter primary, remember that?
ACOSTA: I do, yes.
CHETRY: President Obama ended up choosing Hillary Clinton as his top diplomat.
ACOSTA: Yes, we remember those 3:00 a.m. ads that were run during the campaign. Now, President Obama's policy toward Iran is beginning to look a lot like hers. Jill Dougherty takes an inside look at Secretary Clinton's influence on the administration.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jim, Kiran, stretching out the hand to Iran, engagement. Remember that? Barack Obama tried it back in the presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton shot it down. Now that hand looks more like a fist. So is Hillary Clinton saying I told you so?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY (voice-over): Spin the time machine back to 2007. Question, would Barack Obama as president meet face to face with America's enemies like Iran's leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would. And the reason is this. That the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration is ridiculous.
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: It is not that you promised a meeting at that high a level before you know what the intentions are.
DOUGHERTY: Hillary Clinton then blasted Obama as irresponsible and naive. Now, tough talk on Iran from Barack Obama.
OBAMA: And as Iran's leaders continue to ignore their obligations, there should be no doubt they, too, will face growing consequences. That is a promise.
DOUGHERTY: So did Hillary Clinton win the argument? We sat down with the Bush administration's point man on Iran.
(on camera): Ok. So who was right?
NICHOLAS BURNS, KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT: I think they both turned out to be right. The problem the United States had is we didn't have enough credibility with the rest of the world because we had not tried negotiations with Iran. And invariably countries would say to me when I said please support us on sanctions, they'd say but you haven't tried diplomacy yet.
DOUGHERTY: OK, so back to the time machine. You also had Senator Obama, now President Obama, firing back at Hillary Clinton.
OBAMA: I don't want a continuation of Bush-Cheney. I don't want Bush-Cheney like.
CLINTON: I've been called a lot of things in my life. But Bush- Cheney like has never been one of them.
BURNS: Now Iran has turned President Obama down. And here you have Secretary Hillary Clinton, I think, being very effective in recent weeks. She has said that Iran is in danger of being taken over by a military dictatorship. That's the right thing to say.
DOUGHERTY: Is it fair to say that Hillary Clinton's policy was vindicated by what has happened?
BURNS: I actually think the president has been right all along on engagement. But I also think Secretary Clinton has added some real steel to the administration's policy over the last couple of weeks in her public statements which I think have been right on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY: President Obama's policy of engagement has paid off in some ways like winning more support for economic sanctions on Iran from countries like Russia. But the tougher policy is still a hard sell. Even as his Secretary of State with his blessing turns up the heat -- Jim, Kiran.
ACOSTA: Jill Dougherty in Washington for us.
And it's interesting to see Hillary Clinton in action as secretary of state with everything that's going on in Washington, the tough time that the president has had with health care and everything else. Hillary Clinton has managed to stay out of the fray.
CHETRY: Oh, yes, chugging along as people say. She's really known as a workhorse when she gets an assignment, she just jumps into it with both feet.
ACOSTA: Absolutely.
CHETRY: Interesting stuff.
All right. Still ahead, it's 30 minutes after the hour. We're following the top stories for you this morning. Police are now saying that the man who opened fire on two Pentagon police officers last night acted alone. 36-year-old John Patrick Bedell was hit with a gunshot wound to the head when officers returned fire and he died overnight.
Investigators are still searching for a motive but they do say that Bedell may have had resentment toward the U.S. government and suspicions over the 9/11 attacks.
ACOSTA: And speaking of those attacks, the accused 9/11 mastermind may not be tried in a civilian court after all. Senior administration officials tell the "Associated Press" and "The Washington Post" they are nearing a recommendation for President Obama to choose a military tribunal for Khalid Sheik Mohammad and four other suspects.
Last November, Attorney General Eric Holder said they would be tried in a federal court in lower Manhattan just blocks from ground zero but that decision raised concerns from both Republicans and some Democrats, Kiran.
CHETRY: And while we're just learning now a strong 6.8 magnitude earthquake has rattled Chile this morning. We still don't know about the damage involved. The U.S. geological survey said that the aftershock hit about 18 miles from the town of Concepcion, near the epicenter of Saturday's deadly quake. The shaking is raising some more tsunami fears as well. This also making relief efforts on the ground even more difficult.
Well, there have been a number of incidents that have raised eyebrows lately, involving air traffic controllers as well as pilots over the last year. The most recent is an air traffic controller who let his two kids direct planes at New York's JFK Airport, not once but twice. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: MX-403 contact departure, adios. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Contact departure. AeroMexico 409. Adios.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Contact departure. Adios, amigo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adios, amigo. Over to departure, Jet Blue 195.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: You heard some of it. That air traffic controller and his supervisor have been suspended with pay while the FAA completes the investigation. But a lot of people are asking what's going on here in some complacency in the airline industry that we need to be concerned about?
And joining me now to talk more about it is Bob Richards. He is a retired air traffic controller, also former airline pilot, Captain Jack Casey. Thanks to both of you for being with us this morning.
Bob, let me start with you. You worked at Chicago's O'Hare airport for 22 years. And like JFK, it's a huge hub. What's going on that a controller thought it would be OK or even cute to put his kids at the mic?
BOB RICHARDS, RETIRED AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: Well, first of all, I like to say that I think what happened here is -- everyone would agree it's pretty much indefensible and I believe is simply a case of a bad judgment. And I've called that to many people, a pinhead move basically. And what I mean by that is somebody just didn't think it through.
And I think if he had it to take back, he probably would have done it differently. But the bottom line to it, it was just a case of very bad judgment. And how do these things happen you ask? Well, in this particular case, we've all done these kind of things in different professions. It's certainly not representative of what air traffic controllers are about.
I mean, the time I was a controller at O'Hare I never saw a controller bring a family member and put him on a frequency and start talking. That just doesn't happen. I mean, it is very common though for people to visit the tower. We have people in the tower all the time. We have family members. We have other airline employees come up from time to time. We have evaluators.
So it's not like we're not used to having people up in the tower around us. It's not that much of a distraction, we're used to it. But this went beyond the pale and I look at it as simply bad judgment. And time to move on. Because there's much more important issues I think we need to concentrate on. I think the powers at be in this situation are going to deal with it the way it needs to be dealt with.
CHETRY: I want to ask you, Captain Casey, because one of the things that a lot of people are noticing here is that the pilots sound amused on the tapes. They don't seem startled at all by the fact there are two small children that are sort of directing them. Do you find that surprising? Do you think that's also an indicator there's been a little bit of a lax attitude for some people in the industry?
CAPT. JACK CASEY, FORMER PILOT: Well, complacency, of course, is a key issue here. But I have to say, that having flown out of JFK in my career, it's a very busy place. And the airplanes are moving very quickly. The clearances are given, received, understood and acted upon very fast. It's just the necessity.
And my feeling would be that somewhere down the road 200 miles away as those crews were climbing to altitudes one of the pilots would probably turn to the other one and say, just what was going on back there? But we would all like to think that we would take a moment and ask for perhaps a repeat of the clearance but given as my cohort says, the unusual nature of this, the crews may have just thought there was something going on in the tower that was approved and clearance sounded familiar so off they went.
CHETRY: Right. Well, Bob, let me ask you about this. Because I mean in this instance thank goodness nobody was hurt. I mean, no one was any worse for the wear except for these two supervisor and the controller who are now on suspended pending an investigation.
But last August, we had that incident at Teterboro Airport. Of course, you must remember that when in New Jersey, they handed off a private plane to controllers at a neighboring airport. They failed to correct the plane's pilot when he read back the wrong frequency. Later they tried unsuccessfully to reach that pilot and he ended up colliding with a tour helicopter.
In that instance, we had three people who were killed in the plane and six people in the helicopter. They also later found out that the controller's supervisor had left to run a personal errand. So in some cases, we do see that there are deadly consequences.
RICHARDS: Yes, and I understand that. There's a lot more extenuating circumstances involved in that accident. It wasn't just a case of controllers, you know, working in the airplanes --
CHETRY: No, it wasn't but there were a lot of things going on in that situation. But when they investigated that deadly incident, they also found that things weren't going by the book like they were supposed to in the air traffic controller situation.
RICHARDS: Yes. You know, unfortunately I understand what you're saying. But here's the thing that people need to put in perspective here. Going back to the Colgan flight crash last February, there was a two-year period leading up to that time where there was not one fatality, one commercial fatality that is. And then you got two million people flying a day and that adds up to like one billion people.
So I'm not and I don't want to diminish what happened in New York. But the thing is we -- there's no safer venue than air traffic compared to all of the other venues we use whether it's our car, trains, whatever. But -- and we've heard that a million times. We heard that cliche.
But what we really got to understand is there's a human factor in all this. and that's what we have to correct. We have a lot of backups to the human factor. We have in the last 10 years we've added extra controllers called assist controllers and to give an example, for instance, we have a local controller in the tower who clears people to land and clears them for takeoff.
Now we have a person plugging in with them who is just an extra set of eyes and that was on the recommendation of the NTSB. FAA controllers followed. So at any time we have usually at least four sets of eyes. We have the controller. We have an assist controller. We have the pilot. The co-pilot. This is more toward commercial aviation --
CHETRY: OK.
RICHARDS: But, you know, this is something that people have got to understand. You have to -- this is all about the human factor.
CHETRY: Right. And let me let Captain Casey get the last word before we go.
RICHARDS: Sure.
CHETRY: So you think anything stands out to you that we need to change with how this all happened?
CASEY: Well, I think we need to look into it from the human factor's perspective, definitely. This is really the key issue here. This is an aberrant type of occurrence but it does demonstrate a certain complacency and complacency as we all know is the enemy of safety.
I don't see any great overriding patterns here. But the more of these things occur, you know, the more alert to them we need to be and fix them when we find them.
CHETRY: All right. Bob Richardson, Captain Jack Casey, great to talk to both of you. Thanks.
CASEY: Thank you.
RICHARDS: Good day.
ACOSTA: And coming up shortly, health care reform, where does it go next up on Capitol Hill? Dana Bash will join us in just a few minutes. She's counting the votes and they need them.
CHETRY: Yes.
ACOSTA: They're going to get it passed.
It is 38 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (MUSIC PLAYING)
ACOSTA: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. March 18th. That is the president's deadline for fellow Democrats to get health care reform done. He's urging his party to ignore the political risks and schedule a final vote before he leaves or before they leave on a trip to Guam in less than two weeks.
Republicans say it's another example of Democrats trying to fast track a flawed bill that Americans don't want but Democrats, of course, see it differently.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, HOUSE SPEAKER: It is pretty exciting. We feel that we are on the brink of making very important history.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: It looks like chaos on the other side of the aisle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: There you go. While Democrats are trying to put a happy face on health care reform, the truth is they may not even have enough votes to get the bill to the president's desk. As senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash tells us, you don't take anything for granted these days in Washington. Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kiran and Jim, the White House is pushing House Democrats to finalize health care in the next two weeks. The House Democratic leaders say they will try but it's not going to be easy.
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BASH (voice-over): How hard will it be to get health care through the House and onto the president's desk? Just ask the speaker.
PELOSI: Every legislative vote is a heavy lift around here. You assume nothing.
BASH: Privately Democratic sources suggest heavy lift is an understatement. To explain why, let's go back to November when the House approved its version of health care. The vote was 220-215. Already a slim margin. And since then, Democrats have lost four votes, three vacancies and one Republican publicly bolting.
That leaves just 216. One vote short of 217. The minimum number currently need for House victory.
(on camera): And now the outcome is even more uncertain. That's because to get around Republican opposition, the president asked House Democrats to just send him the Senate's bill with a package of changes.
REP. DAN MAFFEI (D), NEW YORK: Yes, this is a tough one.
BASH (voice-over): Dan () is a Democrat in a Republican-leaning district. One of many Democrats who voted yes to the House bill but may vote no now because of a tax that he says hits middle class Americans.
(on camera): Have you decided yet how you will vote in the coming process?
MAFFEI: Well, I have to say I was very disappointed with the Senate bill mainly because it taxed health care benefits. As much as I want to do health care reform, I don't think you can rob Peter to pay Paul.
BASH: Then there's a group of a dozen anti-abortion Democrats insisting on tougher abortion restrictions and threatening to switch yes votes to no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will not compromise that principle or belief.
BASH: But there are some Democrats in the no column who could be persuaded.
REP. JASON ALTMIRE (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I'm open. I want to bring down the cost of health care.
BASH: Congressman Jason Altmire says the House bill didn't go far enough in doing that but --
ALTMIRE: We have work to do. But the Senate bill is a better starting point than the House bill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Congressman Altmire is being lobbied heavily. He was invited to the White House twice within 24 hours but in talking to him and several other undecided Democratic lawmakers, it is far from certain whether the president's stepped up involvement will be enough to muster the votes -- Jim and Kiran.
ACOSTA: Dana Bash reporting from the Capitol.
They've had deadlines before and they've missed those deadlines. We'll have to see what happens.
CHETRY: Like (INAUDIBLE) say herding cats. It's like herding cats.
ACOSTA: Big time. Lots of cats.
CHETRY: Easier said than done.
All right. Well, it's 45 minutes past the hour right now. We're getting some rain, some snow, and some chilly temperatures now, but a warmer weekend in store. Rob Marciano has all the details for us in just a moment.
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ACOSTA: I like that.
CHETRY: I know. That was just for you, Jim.
ACOSTA: That was. Thank you. I appreciate that.
CHETRY: "Jimi Thing." "Jimi Thing" from Dave Matthews Band. "Jimi Thing" this morning.
ACOSTA: Jimmy something, that's --
CHETRY: That's something (ph).
Forty-eight minutes past the hour. A look at New York this morning, Columbus Circle., things moving along nicely. It's cloudy, 36 degrees, and it's not getting that much warmer actually today, partly cloudy, high of 41 here in the Big Apple.
ACOSTA: That is an improvement over the way things have been all winter long., so we will take 41 degrees. And where I'm going later today, Washington, is supposed to be in the 50s this weekend, and I don't know, maybe Rob Marciano could chime in on this.
CHETRY: Yes, and maybe (INAUDIBLE) sunshine. What do you think, Rob?
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I think D.C., Philly, New York, Boston, you're all going to have a lovely weekend.
CHETRY: Nice.
ACOSTA: Excellent.
MARCIANO: Well deserved, I might add.
Good morning, everybody. I want to update you on the aftershock that came through Chile about a half an hour ago. We said there were two listed, one 6.6, one 6.8. They have combined that now to a 6.6 aftershock. That is still the second largest aftershock they have seen since day one when they had a 6.9 soon after the 8.8.
This one centered a little bit farther south from the main fracture at about 22 miles north of Concepcion. So Concepcion, heavily damaged area, and on Talcahuano which had that tsunami damage. This is where the -- the aftershock was the closest.
So likely no tsunami triggered from a 6.6, but sometimes you get landslides that will trigger localized tsunamis, but nonetheless over 200 aftershocks down there. The nerves that are rattled must be unbelievable.
All right, 22 in Atlanta. That's what it feels like. So the windchill still -- I mean, we're into March now and the sun certainly is strong, but at night, obviously you don't have the sun and with a little breeze and the cold air in place, it's -- it feels pretty winterlike out there.
All right. Boston and New York, some snow showers, a flurry or two, but just really cloudy in New York and some breezy conditions, and more significantly snow is expected across parts of the intermountain west with the storm that came through the Southern California area and dumped a fair amount of rain actually in Los Angeles.
So they had the dog rescue out. We had a little pup that was splashing around in some rapids, just freaking out, this little guy because of the rain runoff here. Well, the fire rescue crews got out there and they got him out of there. They nicknamed him Splash. Splash made it out OK, but certainly he was -- he was kind of terrified.
There's your doggy. Now that's -- that's a keeper right there. You get him in a fishnet (ph).
ACOSTA: A brave little fellow.
MARCIANO: Nice work, Splash.
CHETRY: Yes, and what was he running across? He -- he looked like he was -- you know -- oh, then he a big bowl of all wet food. You know, that's (INAUDIBLE).
ACOSTA: Couldn't they have got him a steak or something?
CHETRY: But they get to finally -- just pluck him out with that net. He wasn't going to let the guy get to him. Poor thing.
All right. All's well that ends well, though. He looks fine.
MARCIANO: Yes. He -- he did OK. There'll be a little -- a couple of more showers I think this weekend, but I -- I think Splash will probably be hanging out indoors.
ACOSTA: The doggy paddle was not working there.
CHETRY: No. The poor thing. Thanks, Rob.
MARCIANO: See you guys (ph).
ACOSTA: This morning's top stories are just minutes away.
CHETRY: Yes, that's right. The shootout at the Pentagon, we've been following the latest on that. We got an update earlier today, the gunman ended up dying from -- from his injuries in that shootout. The police officers are going to be OK.
But we're learning more about a possible motive, conspiracy theories about 9/11 and government resentment. We're going to have all the details live from the Pentagon. ACOSTA: And a retired Army captain still dealing with the horrors of war realizes his service is not done yet. His battle with posttraumatic stress as he runs for political office.
CHETRY: Also, guys you are on the air. It's a slap fight in the newsroom that went viral.
Can you believe that? They're actually killing each other.
ACOSTA: That was our morning meeting yesterday.
CHETRY: Yes, right. We're much more civilized here.
Fifty-two minutes past the hour.
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ACOSTA: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It is 55 minutes after the hour and it's time for your "A.M. House Call," stories about your health.
CHETRY: Right.
ACOSTA: This week we've been telling you how 50 cents of every dollar we spend on health care is wasted. So many of you have experienced this firsthand and you've let us know about it.
CHETRY: That's right. Hundreds of people have been sharing their own stories about medical waste after Elizabeth Cohen's series. They've headed to CNN.com and given their two cents -- forget 50 cents.
Our Senior Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen's here to talk more about it. The big response to your series -- it was a great one, by the way, "Health Care Prescription for Waste". So what are people saying about their experiences with waste in the health care system?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, Kiran, they're giving us incredible examples. I mean, I thought a $1,000 toothbrush was bad. Well, they were giving us some that are in that same ballpark. And so I'm just going to get right to this and tell you what two of our readers told us.
One of our readers told us about their child being in the hospital and the child needed two CCs of Tylenol for children. So liquid Tylenol. You can see it right over here. Two CCs of Tylenol, the price tag, when they got the bill, $128 for those two CCs of Tylenol.
And here's another one. A baby was born in the hospital, a little girl, and she used a pacifier, as babies do. The cost for a pacifier, they saw it on the bill, $121 for a pacifier. And, as babies tend to do, they drop their pacis, so this baby used up 11 pacifiers during the course of her hospital stay, so they spent more than $1,300 of pacifiers.
And Kiran, I know you're a mom, and you know that's not how much --
CHETRY: Right.
COHEN: You don't pay that much for a pacifier.
One of my favorite --
CHETRY: Although if you were desperate and you --
COHEN: That's right.
CHETRY: And you forgot yours, you might be tempted. But, no, that's just ridiculous.
COHEN: Right. I've been willing to pay $121 for a pacifier, but I've never actually done it.
ACOSTA: Just for a little peach and quiet. Exactly.
COHEN: That's right.
ACOSTA: Elizabeth, you know, I wanted to ask you, and we've heard this from a lot of people throughout the series, you know, we got a person who wrote in to cnn.com with this comment, "All I can say is we need a standardized cost across the board, then no one can set prices that are as outrageous as," those binkies you just laid out for us.
So, Elizabeth, why don't hospitals and insurance companies standardize costs across the board? It reminds me of those $10,000 toilet seats at the Pentagon.
COHEN: Right. Exactly. But that's different because that was the government spending money, and so the government, you know, stepped in and got rid of those $10,000 toilet seats. This is a private enterprise, so for the government to tell a private enterprise what they can charge, it would -- some would say it would almost be like telling a restaurant you can't charge $15 for a hamburger, you can only charge $3.
Well, the restaurant can charge whatever the market will bear, and hospitals tell us, look, we know our pacifiers are more expensive than what you would get at a -- at a baby store, but we're all -- we're wrapping in the cost of electricity for the hospital, paying the nurses, buying that new MRI. And they said, by the way, insurance companies don't always pay us this amount. This is what we ask for.
ACOSTA: Right. But it taps into that ideological debate that we've heard over health care that if the government isn't stepping in to at least regulate some of what goes on in this industry, then you're going to get stuff like this.
Of course, obviously, people will say we should let the free market decide, but it goes right to that debate, does it not?
COHEN: It definitely goes to that debate. And you see what happens how Americans react when you talk about the government getting involved in their health care. They don't like it so much.
ACOSTA: Right.
CHETRY: Wow. Well, keep those responses coming. We know that it was a story that touched a nerve.
Elizabeth Cohen for us. Thanks so much.
ACOSTA: Thanks, Elizabeth.
COHEN: Sure thing (ph).
CHETRY: Two minutes till the top of the hour. We're going to take a quick break. Your top stories when we come back.
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