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American Morning
Man Under Investigation for Allegedly Setting Up Illegal Spy Network; House Democrats Begin Pushing to Finish Line on Health Care Vote; Chris Dodd on Reforming Wall Street; 4.4 Quake Hits Los Angeles; Life in Prison for Teens
Aired March 16, 2010 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. It's Tuesday, March 16th. Glad you're with us on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. I'm John Roberts. Thanks for being with us, and here are this morning's top stories.
A Defense Department official under investigation for allegedly running a covert spy ring in Afghanistan and Pakistan and tracked to killed militants. An operation that some are calling illegal and out of control. We're live at the Pentagon this morning.
CHETRY: Also, from the beginning, the Obama administration said it wanted to reform the financial system. Now, Senate Banking Committee Chairman Chris Dodd has revealed his much anticipated plan. Isn't enough to stop enough another meltdown and can he win Republican support? We're going to ask him when he joins us live. Senator Dodd coming up.
ROBERTS: Plus, should teens be sentenced to life behind bars even if they have not committed a murder. Coming up, the story of a man who stole a car at gunpoint when he was just 16. He could have gotten life behind bars, but after serving some time, he got a second chance at life. Jason Carroll has part 2 of our special series, "Growing Up Behind Bars."
CHETRY: But first this hour, an alleged spy ring, a classified, memo, and millions in missing tax dollars. This morning a Defense Department official is under investigation for allegedly setting up a network of private contractors in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Here's a look right now at the man at the center of the version, Michael Furlong. His alleged covert network of contractors was paid for with your tax dollars, something military officials say should not be done.
The big question -- did the contractors made up of former CIA and Special Forces operatives, help track and kill suspected militants? Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is tracking this developing story for us. Good morning, Barbara. First layout what the allegations are. BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kiran, good morning to you. We want to talk about this man Michael Furlong, but we want to say right off the bat at this point as far as we know Michael Furlong is not charged with any wrongdoing. Government sources confirm his activities are under review, under investigation. But it should be said he is not charged with any wrongdoing.
We spoke to a source close to him who maintained Michael Furlong is in fact innocent of wrongdoing.
What is at the core of this -- Michael Furlong is a government official, Pentagon official running a contract worth millions of dollars. He was supposed to be hiring contractors to collect open information about what was going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
The allegation is that he then turned that into hiring people to collect information that was turned over to the intelligence community for potentially tracking and killing militants.
All of this irritated the CIA to such an extent that we now know the CIA wrote a classified memo in December to the Pentagon complaining about Furlong, saying he was basically out of control and that they wanted his activity stopped. That's what began this whole investigation and that's what people are looking into now.
Some of this story was first reported in "New York Times" yesterday. But we've gone further. We've talked to people who say, on the one hand, sources closes to him say he did nothing wrong. Others say this was out of control. Kiran?
CHETRY: Did his options stop or thwart any attack on U.S. military in the region?
STARR: We don't know that at this point. That's what people are looking to try and find out. How might this have all worked? What information did he actually come up with? And what was actually done about it?
The core issue is he was using government money under an approved contract supposed to be collecting cultural information, information about tribes and information about what people were basically up to Afghanistan in a very open way.
Did he use that money then to basically run an intelligence gathering operation? That would have been over the line.
Barbara Starr this morning at the Pentagon, a very interesting story for sure. Thank you.
ROBERTS: It's down to the wire for President Obama's health care overhaul. He took his fight to the people one last time, addressing a campaign style rally in Ohio yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have debated this issue now for more than a year. Every proposal has been put on the table, every argument has been made.
I know a lot of people view this as a partisan issue. But, look, the fact is both parties have a lot of areas where we agree, it's just politics are getting in the way of actually getting it done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And the key to getting health care reform done, those 37 Democratic men and women are wavering or voted no the first time around. Each is being heavily courted by the president and leaders in the House.
One Democrat not on the list but still on the fence is Virginia Congressman Gerry Connolly. You would think the White House would have reached out to him, but you would be wrong. Here's Jim Acosta with that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. GERALD CONNELLY, (D) VIRGINIA: I think at the end of the day health care is probably going to pass, narrowly but pass.
ACOSTA: And will you be there pushing it over the edge?
CONNELLY: We have to see. I don't know yet. I really haven't made up my mind.
ACOSTA: Really?
CONNELLY: Yes, really.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Really. Freshman Congressman Gerry Connolly, who voted yes on health care reform last fall, is now saying quite publicly he could be a no this time around, which makes the next tidbit from Connolly all the more shocking.
ACOSTA (on camera): Have you gotten a call from the president?
CONNELLY: I have not.
ACOSTA: Does that surprise you?
CONNELLY: Yes.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Connolly is turn between a president he wants to support and a health care bill he doesn't really like. But Connelly says he doesn't want to miss what he considers a once in a generation chance to fix health care.
ACOSTA (on camera): I get a sense what you're saying is, if I go down because I voted for health care reform, so be it.
CONNELLY: Yes. When you begin in public life, if you don't say to yourself there are some things I'm willing to lose this seat over, then you frankly have already sold your soul. ACOSTA (voice-over): Connolly is facing a rematch in the fall with Republican Keith Fimian. Fimian would love to run against the guy who voted for health care before he voted against it.
ACOSTA: In your mind he has no choice but to vote yes?
KEITH FIMIAN, (R) VIRGINIA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I think so. What are the reasons for voting yes if the first place, and how has that changed now that the American people don't want it?
ACOSTA: All this week both sides of the debate are turning up the heat on wavering Democrats. At a health care rally with President Obama, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who says he's a no, was feeling the pressure.
OBAMA: Did you hear that, Dennis? Say that again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vote yes!
(LAUGHTER)
CONNELLY: I think we might have passed health care reform frankly if we had more pressure coming from the White House last year, not less.
ACOSTA: Congressman Connolly wonders if he'll get that same kind of White House nudge, whether it be from the president or one of his more persuasive advisers.
ACOSTA: How about Rahm Emanuel?
CONNELLY: I haven't heard from him.
ACOSTA: Really?
CONNELLY: Yes, really.
ACOSTA: Nothing in the shower? I'm just kidding.
(LAUGHTER)
CONNELLY: Maybe I should spend more time in the House gym. I don't know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: At least they can have a laugh this week. That is a reference to Emanuel's alleged recent run-in with former Congressman Eric Massa.
In the meantime, counting the votes on health care this week will be a tricky task. Some fence sitting Democrats are refusing to take a public stance on the issue right now until the very second the vote is called. John, this is going to be extremely close.
ROBERTS: What's the conventional wisdom? Is this actually going to pass?
ACOSTA: There's a new wrinkle that's come up. If you thought reconciliation was wonky, now House Democrats and Nancy Pelosi, the speaker, are talking about passing this legislation through something called "Deem and pass," where they would deem the Senate legislation that's already passed as passed and then approved some fixes to that legislation to take out things like the cornhusker kickback.
None of this is set in stone at this point, but it's another one of those legislative wrinkles that make the sausage-making in this town sometimes a little complicated.
ROBERTS: All about the procedures. Jim, thanks so much for that. Good to see you.
ACOSTA: You bet.
CHETRY: Also new this morning, two aftershocks rocking Chile overnight. U.S. geological survey says they were centered 35 to 45 miles north of Concepcion where the area was devastated by the 8.8 quake that struck last month. That was one of the strongest earthquakes ever recorded.
ROBERTS: Israel ambassador to the United States Michael Orrin says relations between the two countries face their worst crisis in 35 years and now sources say George Mitchell, President Obama's special envoy to the Middle East, has delayed a visit to the region.
The U.S. is demanding Israel reverse its decision to build housing in a disputed area of East Jerusalem, but Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is not backing down, saying that he will not cancel the settlements. And you're seeing pictures of protests going on in Jerusalem today.
CHETRY: And some Toyota owners are worried about the safety of their cars and are suing the company for a full refund. The lawsuits filed in Arizona and Washington. Dozens of suits have already been filed by Toyota owners who claim their vehicles have lost value. These are the first to try to get the entire purchase price of the vehicles back.
ROBERTS: Two Northwest Airlines pilots who overshot the Minneapolis airport by 100 miles could have the chance to do it all again. They could fly again. The pilots struck a deal with the FAA. It will allow them to reapply for their licenses at the end of August.
They told investigators they were on their laptops at the time of the incident and weren't really paying close attention to where they were at the time.
CHETRY: Raising levels of vitamin D could cut your risk of heart disease by a third according to a new study by cardiologists in Salt Lake City. Doctors say they still have to dig a little deeper on the issue. The fix may not be as easy as taking a vitamin D supplement so it's still unclear whether people with low vitamin D levels have heart problems because of that or because they may not exercise as much. ROBERTS: And water levels are still so high in the eastern part of the country that a barge broke free and bumped the 14th Street Bridge which crosses the Potomac River in Washington. It's a major link between Virginia and Washington. Highway Interstate 395 runs along it.
Ironically, the barge was loaded with supplies needed for construction on the bridge it slammed into it. The Coast Guard says everything is OK and it's open to traffic again this morning. I guess they could reach over the side of the bridge and pick up whatever they need.
CHETRY: It's about ten minutes past the hour.
(WEATHER BREAK)
ROBERTS: Should Tiger Woods make his much anticipated return at the masters? If he does, you'll be seeing him like never before, that is, if you have a 3-D TV.
CHETRY: The Masters announced yesterday that next month's gold tournament will be broadcast in 3-D. And it is the first time a sporting event will be in 3-D. You'll be able to see it on Comcast cable or on the Masters Web site.
ROBERTS: My dog used to go crazy watching golf, always going after the little ball. If you put a pair of 3-D glasses, she would go crazy.
(LAUGHTER)
CHETRY: That would be too much, poor dog.
Fending off another financial meltdown -- at 7:15 eastern we'll be speaking with Senator Chris Dodd, chairman of the banking committee, about his sweeping plans to reform Wall Street.
ROBERTS: At 7:25, should teens be sentenced to life in prison for nonlethal crimes? That question is being considered by the Supreme Court. Coming up we're talking to people on both sides of the emotional debate.
CHETRY: And coming up at 7:50 eastern we'll tell you about a disease that so many of us ignore that's now become a dangerous epidemic. Dr. Sanjay Gupta live with your "A.M. House Call." It's 12 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. At the height of the financial meltdown, the Obama administration had big plans for reforming the system.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: But this morning, a somewhat less ambitious plan is on the table and joining us now to talk about the bill, Senator Chris Dodd. He's the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee.
Senator, it's great to see you this morning.
SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: Good to see you, John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: One report I read this morning said if Wall Street doesn't like it, it can't be all bad. But many consumer groups are saying that this doesn't go far enough. And not one Republican has signed on to it at this point. So, Senator, what do you really have here?
DODD: Well, we think we have a very good -- probably the most comprehensive reform of the financial services sector since 1930s. And a lot of work has gone into this, John, and we have a lot of bipartisan support for major provisions of this bill. In fact, a lot of them were written by my colleagues on the committee. For instance, the whole area of too big to fail which is a major provision of this bill, a lot of that was done entirely by Senator Mark Warner of Virginia, the Democrat, and Bob Corker, the Republican of Tennessee. That's one major section where we have I think almost unanimous agreement about that section of the bill.
A lot of other work has gone into the other 10 titles of this bill. Richard Shelby, my Republican colleague, said yesterday that he thought we were about 80, 85 percent there on this bill. A lot of work has gone into this, John, over many, many months. I can't even begin to tell you the thousands of hours that have been spent working on this product that I presented yesterday. So I'm much more optimistic that we can get this job done. We have to do it. We can never go back to where we were before.
And put this, the wreckage economically in this country, we all talk about Bear Stearns and we talk about Lehman Brothers and AIG. But think of those businesses, those jobs, 8.4 million jobs, seven million homes, retirement income --
CHETRY: Right.
DODD: -- trillions of dollars lost. This bill is designed to plug those gaps so we never ever again are in that kind of a crisis with those kind of effects.
CHETRY: And so for the American people that are watching today and saying, you know, I got hammered because of this.
DODD: Right.
CHETRY: I got hammered because I feel that Wall Street got bailed out. That Congress perhaps looked the other way and in the meantime, I either lost my life savings or currently my job. How does this bill help them?
DODD: Well, one, we're never going to see too big to fail again. That is the idea. Some institutions will get so interconnected, so complex, so large that they would have that implicit guarantee that the American taxpayer would write a $700 billion check to bail them out. That's over with. That will never happen again. The presumption is bankruptcy. You start collapsing as a financial service sector, job, other business, you're going to go into bankruptcy. That's a big, huge change in this bill.
Secondly, consumer protection. We've never ever, ever before had an agency, a bureau or division specifically designed to guarantee that the consumer of financial products are going to be protected. That independent autonomous agency is in this bill. And then, of course, the other provisions dealing with derivatives, these exotic instruments that where there's been little or no transparency or accountability, we reformed the banking structure so you have clarity, which of these regulators is in charge of which section of our financial services sector. Anyway, there's a lot in this bill but those are the four major points.
ROBERTS: Senator, let me just back you up a little. You talked about the Consumer Protection Agency.
DODD: Right.
ROBERTS: You called it independent and autonomous.
DODD: You bet.
ROBERTS: Now that's what the House passed in its legislation but your legislation will put that watchdog agency inside the auspices of the Fed and many people are saying, well, isn't that a little bit like the fox guarding the hen house because the Fed, one of the things it has to do is protect the banking system. So can that watchdog agency really have any teeth? Can it really represent consumers?
DODD: Absolutely. Stand alone and independents are distinct words here. The proposal by my Republican friends was that they would like -- this opposition to the idea of having stand alone. I would prefer to stand alone. But in this case here, we're housing it in the Federal Reserve that has appointed, directly is appointed by the president, confirmed by the Senate, a completely independent autonomous budget, autonomous rule writing. So where it's located so much has been paid attention to that aspect of this rather than the independence of the bill. I urge people to read the bill. As they read the bill, they'll come up with a different conclusion.
CHETRY: I want to also get back to the exotic derivatives, the complex derivatives.
DODD: Right.
CHETRY: I mean, there's really no way to break it down any easier way. But you know, there have been warnings for years about the risk associated with these exotic derivatives. You sat basically at the head of the most powerful banking committee for years while this was happening. Does Congress have a role in what happened and why should we trust it now Congress will be able to get it right?
DODD: Well, Kiran, I became chairman of the committee about 36 months ago, not years ago, frankly. We decided to hold hearings on this in January and February of 2007. These matters had already been going on for years. So I don't disagree that there should have been far more oversight, far more accountability. But my job as chairman began only that many months ago. And frankly --
CHETRY: Three years ago. Three years ago, you're saying.
DODD: That's right. Exactly. January of 2007.
The fact of the matter is there's been little or no transparency, accountability. This bill has very strong provisions.
Derivatives and these ideas aren't bad necessarily. It's the idea that you have clarity, you have transparency, accountability, registration, regulation of them so we know what's going on and you don't end up with the kind of problems we've seen. They've become bad words, but if they're well run, properly regulated, they can actually be a very positive -- positive point in our financial system.
ROBERTS: Senator, one question that was given to us by a viewer that we wanted to pass along to you today. It comes via Twitter.
Ed Reining asks, quote, "Does Senator Dodd feel any responsibility for his role in the housing collapse that started our economic catastrophe today?"
You're the chairman of the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee. What do you have to say to Ed there this morning, Senator?
DODD: Well, not at all. In fact, the very first hearings we held more than three years ago, and I became chairman of the committee was the foreclosure crisis. For all of 2007, we could not get the attention of the Bush administration on this issue or the Federal Reserve. And frankly, that was the major cause of this problem, the securitization of mortgages.
We had passed in 1994, the Congress did, something called the Hopewell (ph) legislation which required the Federal Reserve to actually promulgate legislations dealing with fraudulent and deceptive practices in the real estate area. They never promulgated a single regulation and as a result you had mortgages that people didn't understand and can't afford that were then being securitized. And that was the underlying cause of this problem.
And frankly, that's a major area that we tried to clean up in this bill here. Again through that Consumer Protection Agency to see to it, the consumers, whether it's mortgages, credit cards, payday lenders, will get protections they never had before.
ROBERTS: All right. Well, we hope that Ed is listening this morning and maybe he can tweet us back and tell us what he thought of your answer.
Senator, great to see you this morning. Thanks for joining us.
DODD: Not at all. Thank you, John. Thank you, Kiran. CHETRY: Thanks.
ROBERTS: We've got a little bit more information on the earthquake that Rob mentioned at the top of the hour in Los Angeles. He's back with us now. What are we hearing, Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: John, Kiran, this goes down as a 4.4 magnitude quake, but very, very close to downtown Los Angeles, about 11 miles from the Civic Center. Here it is on Google Earth. Very shallow as well. Eleven miles deep, officially in Pico Rivera. And again, 11 miles southeast of Los Angeles, the Civic Center there.
This magnitude USDS says with some moderate shaking, likely little damage, maybe some plates and bottles falling off your shelves. But that should be about it. No structural damage or injuries expected. We'll give you more information as it becomes available. John and Kiran, back over to you.
CHETRY: All right. Thanks so much. 4.4 magnitude quake and Rob will continue to follow that for us if we get any more reports about damage or anything else.
It's 24 minute past the hour. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: It's 26 minutes past the hour. Your top stories just four minutes away. First, though, an "A.M. Original," something you'll see only on AMERICAN MORNING.
The Supreme Court is considering whether life sentences for teenage criminals who have not committed a homicide is cruel and unusual punishment.
ROBERTS: The best legal minds in the country have fiercely debated this issue and the one thing that they all seem to agree on is that there are no easy answers. Our Jason Carroll is here. He's got part two of our special series, "Growing Up Behind Bars."
Good morning, Jason.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the debate is really on on this one. This could have a major impact at the way juveniles are sentenced.
The Supreme Court has actually been debating this issue for months. Many legal analysts expect the justices to reach a decision any time now. One young man who has been through the legal system is hoping the high court changes the way this country sentences its youngest offenders.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice-over): As Dwayne Betts addressed students at last year's University of Maryland commencement ceremonies, his thoughts then and now are about second chances.
DWAYNE BETTS, CONVICTED OF CARJACKING AS ADULT AT AGE 16: Definitely. When I was 16 years old on December 7th, 1996, I carjacked a man in a parking lot in Springfield, Virginia. And after that, I was arrested --
CARROLL (on camera): At gun point?
BETTS: At gun point. I had a gun.
CARROLL (voice-over): Betts remembers when he was a high school honor student, he fell into the wrong crowd.
CARROLL (on camera): How did you end up going astray? Why do you think that that happened?
BETTS: I think the truth is that it's sort of a strange mix of opportunity. You don't turn 16 you have a gun in your hand. So I think there was a lot of baby steps.
CARROLL (voice-over): Baby steps that led to a major crime, carjacking, which in Virginia carries a maximum sentence of life, even if no one is physically hurt as in Betts' case.
BETTS: And there's no way to quantify what a life sentence does to a person. And if I had to wake up every morning to a life sentence, I don't even want to imagine what I would have become.
CARROLL: Instead, Betts received the minimum sentence, nearly nine years, serving alongside the states most violent criminals in the adult prison system.
BETTS: I'm still thinking about what that time did to me in a sense that it became natural to walk down the hall and see somebody getting beat up and in a lot of ways I was the exception, and that I didn't get raped, I didn't get robbed.
CARROLL (on camera): Is it your opinion that your punishment fit the crime?
BETTS: You know for me and for most young people who find themselves transferred to adult court, their case could definitely be handled in juvenile court.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Give daddy a hug.
CARROLL: And your life has changed dramatically from the point where you carjacked that man in that parking lot to where you are now. How would you define your life now?
BETTS: You know for me, the most precious things in my life are the ability to be a contributing member as a father, as a husband and as a teacher.
CARROLL (voice-over): Betts' story has been offered to the Supreme Court as an example while the court considers a case, challenging whether its cruel and unusual punishment to sentence juveniles to life sentences in non-murder cases. Legal experts lining up on both sides.
SHANNON GOESSLING, EXEC. DIRECTOR, SOUTH EEASTERN LEGAL FDN.: Let them serve out the remainder of their life in custody because it was justice at the time that they were sentenced. It is justice today. It will be justice tomorrow.
MARSHA LEVICK, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, JUVENILE LAW CENTER: Kids are different. That's something that everyone of us knows as a parent. And the law needs to recognize. And in fact in many respects has historically recognized that kids are different.
CARROLL (voice-over): In 2005, the Supreme Court abolished capital punishment for juveniles citing evidence showing teenagers are too immature to be punished that way. Could that ruling influence the court's decision this time?
JEFFERY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is likely to be a very close case. Because in general this is a tough on crime court. But it is also a court that has recognized that when it comes to juveniles, cruel and unusual punishment means something different than it does with regard to adults.
CARROLL: He says he did not grow hardened or hateful while behind bars. Instead he says he grew up fast and worked hard. Since being released he began a book club for teenagers and has written a memoir about his experiences. One he says no teenager should have to repeat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I don't think that I'm trying to wiggle out of responsibility for my crime. I'm just acknowledging we set up a juvenile justice system to deal with kids who commit crimes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: Right now, there are more than 100 juveniles currently serving life sentences for crimes where a homicide was not committed. If a court reaches a ruling saying life sentences for non-homicides is constitutional when juveniles are involved, it will then have to decide if that ruling then becomes retroactive.
ROBERTS: All right. Jason, great story this morning. Good series too. Looking forward to tomorrow.
CARROLL: All right.
ROBERTS: Thanks.
Crossing the half hour now. That means it's time for this morning's top stories, the northeast still reeling from torrential rains and high winds that pounded the region for days. The stormy weather is finally moving out. But many areas are still under water and hundreds of thousands of people are without power. States of emergency are in effect in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island. At least nine deaths are blamed on the storms. CHETRY: The FCC unveiling a sweeping plan to improve internet access for millions of Americans. That plan would introduce more competition into the U.S. broadband market by freeing up a big chunk of the public air waves for wireless broadband. Officials also want to sell some frequencies now used by TV broadcasters to companies that deliver wireless internet access.
ROBERTS: And Sarah Palin and John McCain will campaign together for the first time since losing the 2008 race. Palin is scheduled to appear at McCain rallies next week in Tucson and Phoenix. The Arizona Republicans senator is facing a tough primary challenge from former Arizona congressman J.D. Hayworth.
Well, does the CIA need an overhaul? A lot of experts believe the agency is badly in need of reform in the wake of a deadly December suicide attacks at one of its bases in Afghanistan.
CHETRY: Our next guest has pieced together a chilling account of that suicide attack and he also has a lot to say about some missteps that preceded it. Joining me now and joining us now to break it all down is former CIA operative and "GQ" contributor, Bob Baer. Great to talk to you this morning.
BOB BAER, FMR. CIA OPERATIVE: Good morning.
CHETRY: It's interesting because you wrote a fascinating article. But in an op-ed in January, CIA director Leon Panetta defended what happened. And he said "We have no consolation in public commentaries suggesting that those who gave their lives somehow brought it upon themselves because of 'poor tradecraft.' It's like saying Marines who die in a firefight brought it upon themselves because they have poor war fighting skills."
But in your article you say indeed it was poor trade craft. Explain.
BAER: Well, it was more than that. It was inexperience. I mean, the CIA puts people through a course that's basically a leak, it's a PowerPoint presentation on suicide deaths. As you know, these seven people died when this mole -- this Al Qaeda came into the base and blew himself up. Everybody was standing around. It was clear that the people standing around didn't understand the threat that was posed to them.
They didn't -- he should have been searched before he got inside this base in Afghanistan. He should have been run through a metal detector and there should have been a one on one meeting. That's the protocol for the CIA. So all these protocols were broken. Unfortunately, the chief of base there did not have the training or experience to run that base. And the reason is really not the CIA'S fault, it's the war on terror.
Nine years now we've worn the CIA down to a nub. The training cycles have been broken. They got about 200 to 300 people that rotate in and out of Baghdad, out of Kabul. We're just not having, you know, the experienced officers out there. It's broken. ROBERTS: What sort of training should this person have and what sort of training should they have had?
BAER: Well, when I went through we had three or four months of explosives training where we actually made bombs. We blew up cars. We worked on detonators and things like that. You learned enough to be scared of explosives enough not to let a guy like this in.
CHETRY: And much was made about that fact that it was a sign of respect, that it was showing that they trusted this person. That they trusted the Jordanian intelligence as well. Because that's who found them and brought him to that base. A lot of us were scratching our heads saying how could this guy just walk in to a forward operating base, you know, walk in. What should have happened in that situation? And in that situation, were rules broken because they were trying to get this information?
BAER: Well, one, to answer one of your questions, they outsourced intelligence to the Jordanians, or anybody, even the Blackwater they outsource intelligence. We know now. So the CIA officers are not actually in touch with these people initially to vet them. So if the Jordanians say the guy is good, he must be good. The whole idea of having 13 people outside waiting for the guy as I said, breaks protocol completely.
The way it should have worked was that one officer should have gone out in a car to meet this guy and we today would be talking about the death of one officer rather than seven.
ROBERTS: You say in the article that the White House was also apprised of this meeting with Al Balawi. Do you think that that could have factored into some of the mistakes that were made?
BAER: Oh, absolutely. The pressure was on these people out there. They were probably told the White House was aware that this meeting was going to go down. That this is going to be our big break to get inside Al Qaeda and maybe we would get into the point where we could drop a predator missile on Bin Laden.
ROBERTS: So it really raised the expectations?
BAER: The expectations, yes. And this poor lady was out there, not to over her head, but I understood she was a direct assignment, she was sent there so --
ROBERTS: We've seen the article she was in over her head.
BAER: Oh, she was definitely in over her head.
ROBERTS: Yes.
BAER: I mean, it probably would have been over my head too. I don't know Afghanistan -- if you sent me out there today and we have to keep in mind this was Indian country, (INAUDIBLE) one of the worst Taliban leaders controls the entire base around there. We shouldn't have even had a base there. CHETRY: And were they in the process of actually moving out, getting away from that area?
BAER: I think so because you can't -- it was under surveillance, you just cannot operate there like the CIA does.
CHETRY: Sitting ducks basically.
BAER: Sitting ducks. The military does fine because they go out in armed patrols. They knock down doors and they can question people. They got a lot of backup. The CIA doesn't. And that's why it's an institutional failure. It's not a person's failure.
ROBERTS: You said, a few moments ago, Bob, that the CIA has been worn down to the nub. In his op-ed piece, Leon Panetta, the CIA chief said "the CIA is proud to be in the front lines against Al Qaeda." That was actually the title of the piece. While the CIA might be proud to be in the fight, you say that it really is taking a debilitating toll on them to be involved in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
BAER: It's ripping families apart. You simply can't deploy people for nine years in these hardship posting inside wars and expect them to come out indemnified in any way. You see people continuing to resign, getting out of this.
CHETRY: And what's the solution? I mean, if somebody came to you and said, you know, what are the three things that need to change today?
BAER: That's another question. Is the military in Iraq and Afghanistan controls the CIA in a large degree, they decide who's going to be chief of station. They oversee it. There's so much pressure from the military that the CIA has actually become in these country an adjunct to the military.
We need to reduce the size of our stations in Kabul and Baghdad to it could be as few as 10 people, 15 people. And that way you can deploy people for a year, give them the language, do what the CIA does best and it does it very well. And I add that we need the CIA, we need competition to the military.
It's the only way to keep the military intelligence honest and keep the president informed. If we lose the CIA, if this continues on like this, it will be a loss of a great institution.
ROBERTS: Bob, it's a chilling article. Thanks for being with us.
BAER: Thank you.
ROBERTS: ... to talk about it.
CHETRY: Great to have you. Thanks, Bob.
Well, you can also read Bob Baer's full article in the April issue of "GQ" magazine. ROBERTS: Thirty-eight minutes now after the hour. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
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CHETRY: Forty-one minutes past the hour. U.S. officials are demanding that Israel stop construction on housing in a disputed area of east Jerusalem. Also, a trip by George Mitchell, President Obama's top envoy to the Middle East is now on hold. He was supposed to start indirect talks with Israeli and Palestinian leaders.
Meantime, early this morning protests broke out near the settlements in Jerusalem's old city. Protesters throwing rocks. Israeli police in full riot gear firing back with tear gas and stun grenades. Hamas militants calling for a "a day of rage."
Our Jill Dougherty is breaking it down for us from Washington this morning.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: John, Kiran, this blow up is getting more serious. Israel's ambassador to the United States, Michael Orrin, telling his fellow diplomats, the relationship between Israel and the United States is in crisis.
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DOUGHERTY (voice-over): The Israeli announcement on settlements on east Jerusalem turns into a full blown diplomatic crisis when Hillary Clinton took the gloves off in an interview with CNN.
HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The announcement of the settlements the very day that the vice president was there was insulting.
DOUGHERTY: Secretary Clinton wants action. In a tense phone call with Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, Clinton, according to U.S. and Israeli officials demanded Israel reverse its decision on the settlement project and take concrete steps to prove it wants to negotiate with the Palestinians.
P.J. CROWLEY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: She asked for a former response by the Israeli government and we await that response.
DOUGHERTY: Israeli officials tell CNN Jerusalem is debating what steps it might take to defuse the process. But Netanyahu stood his ground Monday while calling the timing of the announcement regrettable and hurtful. He says settlement building will not stop. The spat is stirring up a hornet's nest on Capitol Hill.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It doesn't help them to have public disparagement by the secretary of state.
DOUGHERTY: And within the powerful Jewish lobby. Conservative AIPAC called the public review "a matter of serious concern and a distraction from important issues like Middle East peace and Iran." The liberal "J Street" termed the U.S. reaction "understandable and appropriate." A former U.S. Middle East adviser to Republican and Democratic administration says being tough with Israel is fine if there's a strategy.
AARON DAVID MILLER, PUBLIC POLICY FELLOW, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: The fight has to be worth while. It has to make the president look good and has to advance the American national interest and it also has to create some measure of a breakthrough in negotiations.
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DOUGHERTY: Just before this crisis began there was a glimmer of hope as Israelis and Palestinians agreed to indirect talks. But now even that modest step forward is in jeopardy. John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: Jill Dougherty for us this morning. Jill, thanks.
The northeast still reeling from this weekend's terrible storm. Hundreds of thousands of people still without power. Rob is up next with the latest forecast right after the break. And if you live in the northeast, well you just might like this one.
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ROBERTS: Good morning, Nashville, where it's 44 degrees right now. Looks like it's pretty cloudy there, later on today partly cloudy. It's going to be going up to almost just shy of 60 degrees.
CHETRY: Not bad. Can't complain about that one.
And right now, it's 47 minutes past the hour. We get a check on this morning's weather headlines.
Our Rob Marciano is in Atlanta, tracking all of this for us. You know, for the -- for the East Coast, there's still a big clean up, but at least it's not going to get worse.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: That's right. We finally got the winds and the rain out of here. But still, the rivers trying to unload all that water you guys gained over the weekend, so flood warnings are posted for a good chunk of Jersey, southern parts of New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island certainly seeing some of the worst of it with the Pawtuxet River and many of the rivers flowing south from New Hampshire in through Eastern Massachusetts also under flood warning.
Some of these are -- will be cresting, if they haven't already, later this morning, and then a slow recession as we go through the rest of the day today.
Your low slowly moving offshore. Man, it just took forever to get out of here, and it made -- to add insult to injury, especially yesterday with more rain and wind for parts of the northeast.
We're looking at rain, not a whole lot of wind with this system that's driving south across parts of Texas. It's actually not going to develop into much of anything. We think it will die out as it heads towards the Gulf of Mexico. That's encouraging, to say the least.
Encouraging news out of Fargo -- moderately encouraging, not forecasting record floods as we get towards the weekend, but it's certainly been very, very close to what we -- what they saw last year with the Red River getting close to 40 feet. Temperatures above average there with a high temperature in Minneapolis of 48 degrees.
Fifty-nine, less wind, less rain in New York. You guys can enjoy that.
Again, just a reminder, 4.4 magnitude quake in L.A. Just a little bit of shaking, if you're waking up early with us in SoCal, but it shouldn't result to any sort of damage.
John and Kiran, back up to you.
ROBERTS: Rob, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
MARCIANO: You bet.
ROBERTS: This morning's top stories just minutes away now, including a Defense Department official under investigation for allegedly hiring a stable of private spies. His so-called army of Jason Bournes to track and kill militants in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
We're live at the Pentagon with the latest.
CHETRY: At 15 past the hour, Michael Jackson's record -- record deal. Why we could be hearing new material from the late King of Pop for years to come.
ROBERTS: And at half past the hour, making the internet a utility like water and electricity. The government's plan to bring high speed broadband to every American and how it's going to change our lives.
Those stories and more coming your way at the top of the hour.
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ROBERTS: Eight minutes now to the top of the hour and time for your "A.M. House Call." Stories about your health.
Too many people are ignoring warnings to stay out of the sun, and the medical journal, the "Archives of Dermatology" says non-melanoma skin cancer is reaching epidemic proportions in this country.
We're paging our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He joins in -- joins us from Atlanta to talk about what's going on.
This is -- this something, Sanjay, I've got some personal experience with. I just had my fourth (ph) taken off the other day. What's it all about? DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: And a lot of people do have more than one of these non-melanoma skin cancers.
John, you're absolutely right. These numbers are pretty staggering when you think about it, 3.5 million new cases a year and the numbers are going up. You know, if you look at all these non- melanoma skin cancers, they total more than all other cancers combined, just to give you a little bit of scale there.
And, you know, we've talked a lot -- about a lot of good news with regard to cancer, some numbers going down. But these numbers continue to go up and it seems to be for -- for a few different reasons.
Part of it is payback for people who simply did not avoid the sun over the last 50, 60 years. You're starting to see a lot of those non-melanoma skin cancers starting to crop up. People still don't -- aren't great about sun avoidance now, so that's going to be a problem as well.
And also, people are living longer as well, John, so that -- that could also partially explain the increase.
ROBERTS: So --
GUPTA: And you're talking about UV light here, obviously, you know, damaging the skin cells, causing problems, specifically basal cell carcinoma and squamous cell carcinoma are the two terms, the two names.
Rarely fatal, as you know, John, but, you know, it can -- can cause significant problems for people.
ROBERTS: Obviously, Sanjay if you've been out in the sun a lot, particularly when you were younger, you want to make sure that you make a trip to the dermatologist every once in a while. But should you be worried about every freckle and mole on your body? You know, what -- what constitutes something to be concerned about?
GUPTA: Yes, and it's a great question, and there -- you know, there's a lot of things that really require personal diligence. Really looking at these types of lesions and figuring out, you know, are they changing? Are they new in some way?
Let me just give you a couple of quick examples, if I can. And, John, you may be more familiar with this, but this -- this is what a basal cell carcinoma typically looks like. And you could tell here, if you look, you obviously see a little lesion on the skin here. In this area in here, I don't know if you can see that, John, a little indented. That -- that's something that's going to raise concern a little bit when talking to dermatologists.
Squamous cell carcinoma, again, people who have had this certainly know what this looks like. It tends to be a little bit rougher, patchier, scalier. That -- that's sort of what that looks like, a squamous cell carcinoma. Again, rarely -- rarely is it going to be something that's fatal, and I think that's part of the reason people haven't paid as much attention to it. But, left untreated, it can grow for sure.
Just really quickly, John, to your point, A, B, C, D -- Asymmetry, Borders, Color, Diameter. Look for those things. If those things are changing, that -- that raises your level of concern, John. Make a trip to the dermatologist. Get it checked out. It is a life long disease.
ROBERTS: Give us a quick look of treatment options.
GUPTA: Well, you know, you could -- it's interesting. If you go, depend on the size and how long it's been there, you can -- sometimes dermatologists will freeze these off.
Sometimes they will cut these off, you know, actually using a knife and send that off to a -- to the laboratory for pathology to look and see exactly what it is. Sometimes, if they're not as concerned, they'll just use a topical cream to see if that makes it go away.
But, again, usually pretty noninvasive. Just a couple of hours, if that even, in the doctor's office.
ROBERTS: All right. Just basically be aware of what's going on with your body.
Doc, some good tips this morning. Thanks so much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. We're going to take a quick break. Your top stories coming your way at the top of the hour.
It's 56 minutes past the hour.
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