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Rick's List
Interview With Delaware Senator Ted Kaufman; Floodwaters Threaten Midwest, Northeast
Aired March 17, 2010 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: That's interesting, what's going on. But many of you, as I mentioned a little while ago, that we were going to be talking to a senator who, unlike Chris Dodd, believes that some of these guys who screwed up our economy on Wall Street should be thrown in prison. And the response from you has been remarkable.
As a matter of fact, take a look at this. It says: "Wall Street crooks thrown in prison? Hell yes."
I mean, she's not the only one who is writing this. So, as we go to the beginning of our 4:00 show, I want you to keep in mind the senator who is pushing for exactly that is going to be pushed by me here in just a bit. He's the Democratic Senator Ted Kaufman from Delaware.
Here's what else we got.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here is what is making the LIST today.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: If my vote is to be counted, let it count now for passage of the bill.
SANCHEZ: The Kucinich flip and the story behind it. And where does that put the vote tally?
Throw the Wall Street crooks in prison -- the senator who says that joins me live.
GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Can I give my statement on that, sir?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We're short of time, but please go ahead.
SANCHEZ: McCain vs. General Petraeus. You will see it.
REESE HOPKINS, DEFENDANT: I didn't rape anybody.
SANCHEZ: An exclusive jailhouse interview with the syndicated radio host charged with child rape.
And the Vatican's take on the child abuse scandal from their official exorcist. Their what? The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hi, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. It's hour two.
Time to pick up the pace of today's LIST.
For those of you now checking in, number one, Congressman Dennis Kucinich flips. He told me recently on the air that he was against the health care bill, but that's before he got called to meet the president on Air Force One.
Here's what he says today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: I have doubts about the bill. I do not think it is a step toward anything I have supported in the past. This is not the bill I wanted to support, even as I continue efforts into the last minute to try to modify the bill.
However, after careful discussions with President Obama, Speaker Pelosi, my wife, Elizabeth, and close friends, I have decided to cast a vote in favor of the legislation.
If my vote is to be counted, let it count now for passage of the bill hopefully in the direction of comprehensive health care reform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Number two now: Rodney Alcala is the "Dating Game" serial killer. He's called that because he actually appeared on "The Dating Game." In fact, here's a clip. This is eerie, folks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE DATING GAME")
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please welcome Rodney Alcala.
RODNEY ALCALA, CONTESTANT: We're going to have a great time together, Cheryl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: He won the date, but the bachelorette, who said she got a creepy feeling about him, and never went out with him, and it turns out that's a good thing. Well, police have found photos. They looked in his locker, and there they were, more than 100 pictures of women, kids, even babies -- babies.
Remember, this guy killed five people. Some were women who posed for him in the past. Because some of the pictures police have now found are sexually explicit, authorities do believe that there may be other victims involved. They are now, we understand, getting leads all the way from Alaska to Phoenix.
Number three, an exchange that shows exactly how well our government sometimes doesn't work. What you're going to see here is how a simple question-and-answer can get extremely confusing. This is an exchange between John McCain and General David Petraeus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: Do you believe that the don't ask, don't tell needs a thorough review before action is taken?
PETRAEUS: Senator, my position is that -- can I -- can I give my statement on that, sir?
MCCAIN: If, by order -- we're short of time, but, please, go ahead.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D-MI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Well, how long is that statement?
PETRAEUS: About eight minutes, sir.
MCCAIN: No, no.
(LAUGHTER)
PETRAEUS: Well, look, sir, this is not -- this is not a sound bite issue.
LEVIN: I understand.
MCCAIN: It's a pretty straightforward question, though.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVIN: We respect, believe me, the thoughtfulness that you are applying to it. We have read your public statements. But an eight- minute answer, unless someone else wants to use all their time for it, I'm afraid, would violate our -- the spirit of our rules.
I would suggest, however, that if nobody asks you that question and you use the -- and their time is used for that purpose, that you make that part of the record. But someone may very well ask you. I just don't think it would be right, because of our time limit, to take eight minutes out of someone else's time, what it would amount to.
But if no one asks you the question, OK, all their time would be used for your answer...
PETRAEUS: Right.
LEVIN: ... then we would ask you to consider making part of the record. But we respect very much the thoughtfulness that we know that you have put into a statement. I haven't seen it. But you have made public statements which reflect that thought.
MCCAIN: I think you have just made it very unlikely that you will be asked, if it's eight minutes.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCAIN: Admiral, do you want to make a comment? My question is pretty straightforward, to be honest with you. Do you believe that a thorough review of the policy and the legislation needs to be conducted before repeal?
(CROSSTALK)
MCCAIN: Thank you.
PETRAEUS: And, Senator, let me just answer that.
I believe the time has come to consider a change to don't ask, don't tell, but I think it should be done in a thoughtful and deliberative manner that should include the conduct of the review that Secretary Gates has directed, that would consider the views in the force on a change in the policy. It would include a -- an assessment of the likely effects on recruiting, retention, morale, and cohesion, and would include an identification of what policies might be needed in the event of a change, and recommend those policies as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It almost seemed like it took them longer to discuss the process for hearing his answer than it did to hear his answer.
For the record, David Petraeus does want to review and possibly then repeal don't ask, don't tell.
Reese Hopkins was a popular talk radio host. We're going to be telling you about him in just a little bit.
But, first, there's another big story that we're following for you right now. Come back to me, if you possibly would, because I understand that we now have a tape. This is a tape of Steny Hoyer. Talk about making big news.
He was asked about what was going on with the possibility that, by the end of this week, maybe Saturday or Sunday, we would have a result in the vote for health care reform. He was asked specifically by reporters about Saturday and Sunday. Here's what he said. Take it, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) yet whether (OFF-MIKE) push it to Sunday or Monday? (OFF-MIKE)
REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD), MAJORITY LEADER: Well, we're going to do it as soon as it's ready to be brought to the floor, as soon as we have the CBO numbers that we can have confidence in. And I would say that certainly Saturday and Sunday are possibilities.
(CROSSTALK) QUESTION: Can you give us the latest estimate of when...
HOYER: I hope so.
QUESTION: ... when you might release the CBO numbers and of course the legislative language that you will release along with it? Any updates?
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is interesting, but you heard that he said Saturday and Sunday. And, obviously, there was a lot more the say after that. We're going to continue to follow the very latest. And there's a lot of stuff brewing, folks, out of Washington having to do with the decision to either pass or not pass health care reform, the president's plan.
Stay with us. We have got a lot of reporters in Congress right now drilling down on this story.
Meanwhile, take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOPKINS: I didn't rape anybody. I would never rape anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Reese Hopkins was a radio host, syndicated, listened to all over the country on his radio show. He's now in jail, accused of raping a child. And we have an exclusive jailhouse interview with him. Brooke Baldwin is going to bring you that in just a little bit.
Also, throw the Wall Street crooks in prison -- there's the man who said it. The senator who says that's the right thing to do -- and so many of you agree with him.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: He's joining me next right here. Stay there for Senator Kaufman from Delaware.
The LIST continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
This is what many of you have been waiting for. I'm going to talk now to a guy who is near the top of my list of lawmakers that I am following, because, to me, he sounds serious about going after the crooks on Wall Street.
There he is. That's United States Senator Ted Kaufman, Democrat of Delaware.
Here is a quote that I read to you yesterday, by the way. Let me read that to you again: "We must identify, prosecute and send to prison the participants in those markets who broke the law. Their fraudulent conduct has severely damaged our economy, caused devastating and sustained harm to countless hardworking Americans, and contributed to the widespread view that Wall Street does not play by the same rules as Main Street."
Sounds like many of the tweets that you guys sent me on a daily basis.
All right, I want to welcome now Senator Kaufman. And I -- I also want to welcome back Jessica Yellin.
SEN. TED KAUFMAN (D), DELAWARE: Hey, Jessica.
SANCHEZ: She's going to...
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Senator.
SANCHEZ: She's going to jump in here in just a moment.
Senator, thanks for being with us, sir.
KAUFMAN: Hey, thanks for having me, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right. All right.
You say people should go to prison.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: My question is, who?
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: And -- and let me be a little more specific, right? I mean, how about this guy? How about Dick Fuld?
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: He's the former CEO of Lehman Brothers.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Let me read you this quote to from the bankruptcy...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... court investigator, Anton Valukas, which I'm sure you've read of or heard of.
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: This is from a report unsealed last Thursday -- quote -- "Lehman Brothers executives engaged in conduct ranging from serious errors of business judgment to actionable balance sheet manipulation -- actionable balance sheet manipulation."
So, that, to me, means they cooked the books.
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: Should Dick Fuld go to prison?
KAUFMAN: Well, Rick, you know, that's not -- that is -- that is not for me to say.
What I did and what I'm doing is making sure we got the FBI and the prosecutors to go after this thing. We had a bill with Senator Leahy and Senator Grassley last year to put over $175 million into getting these guys.
SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.
KAUFMAN: And they're going after them.
I mean, we had a set of hearings just about two months ago where I had the head of the Department of Justice Criminal Division, Lanny Breuer, the head of the SEC Enforcement Division, Bob Khuzami, and plus Kevin Smith (ph) from FBI. And we -- we went over exactly who we're looking for.
And what's been described here is exactly what...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Can you name names? Can you -- can you -- can you name names for us?
KAUFMAN: No. No, I can't. No, I can't name names, because that's -- they're all in that process. What they said...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, what about -- well, what about -- what about these guys?
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: What about the finance chiefs for these companies? In fact...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... I -- I looked them up.
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Chris O'Meara, Erin Callan, Ian Lowitt, these are...
KAUFMAN: Yes. Yes. Yes. SANCHEZ: ... Lehman finance...
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: They knew what was going on inside these companies.
KAUFMAN: Yes. Yes.
SANCHEZ: And yet they continue...
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... to tell their investors something totally different.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: That's fraud, isn't it?
KAUFMAN: Yes. Well, it sure sounds like fraud to me. But this is up to them to decide.
What I did say to them and what we talked about in the hearing and what they said is, we're not going over the little guys. We're not going after the mortgage brokers and things like this. This is totally about going for the people on Wall Street who were responsible for this.
And we're going after them, and we're going to get them. And my -- one advice I give to anybody on Wall Street that was involved in this, turn yourself in to the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Department of Justice, because we're going to get you. Better to get this there first, because, as you know, Rick, these are very complex cases to bring.
So, the best thing you can have is whistle-blowers and people that get in early. So, those that get in early get the best deal. Those that get in later, it's a different story.
SANCHEZ: Yes. You -- that -- that -- that's interesting. That's -- you have just made some news here.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: A U.S. senator is on the record telling the folks on Wall Street to literally...
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... turn themselves in at this point.
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: I understand, when you told me a little while ago, look -- look, you don't have jurisdiction over these guys.
KAUFMAN: Right. SANCHEZ: You're a U.S. senator.
I will tell you somebody you do have jurisdiction over, though.
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: You have got jurisdiction over Timothy Geithner.
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: As -- as treasury secretary, he's answerable to your oversight.
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: So, let me be very direct with you, sir.
KAUFMAN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: The Valukas report says that the New York Fed...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... then headed by...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... Timothy Geithner, none other than...
KAUFMAN: Right. Right.
SANCHEZ: ... became so utterly convinced that Lehman Brothers was headed for a collapse, that, literally, it stopped lending it money.
KAUFMAN: Right. Right. Right.
SANCHEZ: I mean, think about that.
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: There's zero indication that Geithner, after learning this...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... warned the SEC...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... certainly didn't warn investors about something he probably should have said.
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: Didn't warn anybody.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I mean, what do you make of -- of that?
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Well, first off, I -- I am not on the committee that oversights that. That's the Banking Committee that oversights -- that oversights Geithner.
SANCHEZ: Right.
KAUFMAN: But, no, I think all these things have to be looked at in terms of what went on. I mean, if you read Andrew Ross Sorkin's book on -- "Too Big to Fail..."
SANCHEZ: "Too Big to Fail," yes.
KAUFMAN: ... there's a lot, a lot, a lot of things in there that, you know, cause you real concern.
And that's when I called the attention to the head of the Criminal Division at the Justice Department and the head of the Securities and Exchange Commission Enforcement Division. We have got to go out and get those guys.
Now, you know, Rick, it's very hard. These guys are very smart. What Khuzami said, which I talked about in my speeches, when he was there is, these are not like drug dealers. These guys like lay their defense at the time they're doing it. So, they're -- and not only that. They can get the very best lawyers.
Now, the second piece is...
SANCHEZ: So, what you need to do...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: Well, what you need to do is, then, you need to get them to release the e-mails, the phone records...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... the meeting notes...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... everything...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... regarding Geithner...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... what he knew...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... what he didn't know about Lehman Brothers and Sterns before these things can -- is that within your purview? Can you do that?
KAUFMAN: Actually, no, no, I have said to the Justice Department and the SEC that that's what they should be looking into. And I assume that that's what we're doing.
But people are still innocent until proven guilty. And we still have to have them go out and actually do the work. My job as a legislator is to make sure they have the resources. That's what I do.
The second thing is, Rick, some of these things, because of influence over the years, should be crimes, but are not. I mean, I was on the (INAUDIBLE) committee for a number of years. And what happened is, every time we tried to make it harder, you know, harder crimes and make it easier to catch people, a lot of the folks that are involved in this thing were in there saying, no, no, we don't need to do that, we don't need to make this criminal, we don't need to make that criminal.
So, the other thing that we're doing, we're doing -- we're working with Senator Specter from Pennsylvania on some legislation to really better define these crimes, so it is not so difficult to bring the cases.
SANCHEZ: As the folks on Twitter would say, hell yeah. That's what they have been saying...
KAUFMAN: Yes. Hell yeah is right.
SANCHEZ: ... about what you're doing all day long.
Interestingly enough, I mean, Jessica and I were talking about this yesterday.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Let me bring Jessica Yellin into the conversation.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: We have seen stuff that happened, like companies that were -- had horrible credit ratings...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... were given AAAs.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: It was a lie.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: It was a fraud perpetrated...
KAUFMAN: Oh, yes.
SANCHEZ: ... on investors...
KAUFMAN: Yes.
SANCHEZ: ... and on the American people.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Jessica, let me bring -- let me bring you into the conversation now...
(CROSSTALK)
KAUFMAN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: ... because I think there's a lot that needs to be changed, right?
KAUFMAN: Sure.
YELLIN: Well...
KAUFMAN: No, no, I think that's right. And, by the way, that's why this financial reform bill is so important that we're dealing with right now.
YELLIN: Well, Senator, let me press you...
KAUFMAN: But you're right about the rating agencies.
Sure.
YELLIN: Let me press you on that, because it's no secret that Senator Dodd has proposed a compromise reform bill that's supposed to change some of the things we have just been talking about.
KAUFMAN: Yes. Yes. Yes.
YELLIN: But it doesn't go far enough for you.
KAUFMAN: Yes. Yes.
YELLIN: So, my question is, on the record, would you oppose this bill because you think it doesn't do enough and it is just a fig leaf?
KAUFMAN: Oh, Jessica, I have been doing this for 40 years. We haven't even gotten to the committee yet. I mean, I will be ready to talk to that after we get something, we get out of the committee and see what the final bill is.
But I hope to change it. I hope there's going to be changes in it. And, plus, there's a lot of good things in the bill. But it's way too early. You know, we don't even have a bill yet. YELLIN: As it is, though, you would oppose it?
KAUFMAN: What?
YELLIN: As it is, you would oppose it?
KAUFMAN: No, I'm not going to say I'm going to oppose anything.
What I'm trying to do is work in the system to try to get the things in.
I laid down on the floor in excruciating detail exactly where I am on this thing and where I want to move this bill. I'm going to do everything in my power to move the bill to that point, and I hope I'm going to be successful.
SANCHEZ: Well, what do you make...
KAUFMAN: And then I will...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, what do you make -- and I don't mean to interrupt, but what do you make...
KAUFMAN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: And just to follow up on Jessica's point, you're telling the American people we need to find out who these guys are and throw them in prison.
KAUFMAN: Right. Right.
SANCHEZ: Dodd came out the other day and said just the opposite. He said, we shouldn't be vengeful and we shouldn't be into retribution.
KAUFMAN: No, no, no. And, by the way...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Do you disagree with him?
KAUFMAN: No, no, no, no. I don't think he's -- no, no, he's not saying that. I mean, I know Chris Dodd for a long time. He's not saying that. He wants to put these guys in jail just as much as we do.
He voted for this bill. He's all for that. He's just saying that we shouldn't legislate in anger, that we shouldn't -- you know, because these -- all these bad things happened -- this bill, when we pass it, is probably going to be the bill that's going to judge us for the next 15, 20 years.
We have got to make sure that we do the right thing, not out of anger. Now, there is a lot of anger. As you know, I'm pretty angry about this. SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.
KAUFMAN: But I'm not legislating out of anger. There's two different things. One, I'm angry about this. But, second, you got to sit down in cold -- legislating, as Jessica knows, is cold, hard, tough business.
YELLIN: Well, let me ask you, if I may, Senator.
KAUFMAN: And that's what we have to do.
Sure.
YELLIN: I know we're -- is, the people who oppose this bill, some of your colleagues, are very opposed to the bill at all.
KAUFMAN: Right. Right.
YELLIN: Are they doing the bidding of the banks, bottom line? Be honest.
KAUFMAN: Geez, I -- no, look, I don't -- I don't say that. I don't say that. I don't think -- I they just -- some of them are concerned about the fragility of the banking system and they're concerned about other things, and they really think this is the best way to go.
No, I'm not saying that that's what's going on. All I know is what I'm saying right now is -- and I put it out there in detail now in two speeches -- what exactly I think should be in the bill, and I'm going the fight like hell to get that stuff in the bill.
YELLIN: Then, why are you alone? Why are one of the only people saying these things?
KAUFMAN: Well, I'm not alone. There's other senators. There are other senators.
And a lot of senators like to do, you know, is a different approach, Jessica. Some people like to just say, look, watch what's going on, see what is going on, work it and the rest of that. That's one way to do it. The way I am, I'm just -- my basic approach is, tell them what you want to do, get out there, lay it out, and then go around and see if you can get senators to agree with it.
SANCHEZ: Well, I will tell you -- I will tell you this. You have got a lot of folks following now on Twitter...
KAUFMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ... even just while we have been having this conversation.
"Go, Senator Kaufman."
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: "Just hope Wall Street people go to regular jail and not the white-collar one."
KAUFMAN: Yes. You got it, Rick.
SANCHEZ: They're already putting these folks there.
KAUFMAN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Senator, we thank you, sir...
KAUFMAN: Yes. Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: ... for -- for taking the questions.
KAUFMAN: Thanks, Jessica.
SANCHEZ: And we wish you the best of luck.
KAUFMAN: Hey, Erin go bragh.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I appreciate it. Good to see you, sir.
KAUFMAN: Take care.
SANCHEZ: By the way, you know, interesting interview, I'm glad we had Jessica on board to help us through this.
Tomorrow, we're going to do another interview that I think might be of interest for you. RNC Chairman Michael Steele has agreed to come on RICK'S LIST and take the tough questions as well. And we are going to do that with him tomorrow, starting at 3:30. So, Michael Steele tomorrow right here on RICK'S LIST.
And, obviously, we will -- we will then put it on our blog, so you can see it, as we will this interview that just concluded.
Here, take a look at this. Root canals with paper clips? There's actually a dentist that is accused of doing the unthinkable.
That is next. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Sounds like they got their man. There's some breaking news coming into us right now.
Barbara Starr is standing by at the Pentagon to report what is really at the top of our follow-up list now when it comes to people who have attacked our guys and have now been sought out and apparently punished, justifiably.
Let's go to Barbara.
Barbara, what you got?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, it looks like the CIA got their man. They're not exactly saying it, but all indications are that a drone strike in Pakistan a few days ago, which killed several people, now, according to a U.S. counterterrorism official, killed a man named Hussein Al-Yemeni.
Indications are, well, by that name, the man may have been from Yemen, an al Qaeda planner and facilitator, someone the U.S. now believes was one of the major figures behind that attack back in December on a U.S. base in Afghanistan that killed seven employees, seven personnel working for the CIA and a Jordanian army officer.
You will remember, that was a horrific suicide bomb attack against the CIA. They lost so many people, so many American families affected by that. They were hunting for who was responsible, who was behind it all. And now they believe that they have information that, in fact, Hussein Al-Yemeni, this al Qaeda facilitator who had contacts with al Qaeda, al Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula, Yemen, and the Taliban in Pakistan was at this place when this strike occurred.
Now, officially, of course, the CIA saying nothing about it, but sources are saying they believe they got their man, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Well, what's interesting about this is -- and I -- and I think we can remind the viewers, because it was you and I having this conversation back when the story first broke, maybe it was the cruelty of the attack.
This guy, this suicide bomber, convinced the CIA guys that he was on their side, that he was their friend. And, somehow, they let him into their camp, right? And that's what...
STARR: Well...
SANCHEZ: ... he did, what he did, taking these guys out. I can't remember how he did it. But what did he say he was, a translator or something, or that he had some information?
STARR: Well, he -- by -- by all accounts, the suicide bomber, who was also killed in the attack...
STARR: Right.
STARR: What we're talking about now are the people now who planned it, who were behind him.
He was a Jordanian doctor who was telling the Jordanians he had turned away from jihad, he was ready to work for the West. And he was essentially the whole time a double agent. They had brought him to this place to meet with the CIA. He had claimed that he had information about the whereabouts of Ayman al-Zawahri, of course, Osama bin Laden's number two...
SANCHEZ: Right. That's right.
STARR: ... such a tempting piece of information. So, he comes to this base where all these CIA people are waiting for him.
Not a good explanation of why they never searched him.
SANCHEZ: Right.
STARR: He detonated his suicide vest. Shrapnel, nails, fragmentation went everywhere.
SANCHEZ: Oh.
STARR: These people were killed, a very, very difficult situation for the CIA, and for the Jordanians, of course. But now they think they have gotten one of the people really behind it all, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Yes, the guy who set the whole thing up, the guy who probably introduced him as a guy that should have been trusted, and obviously was not, or should not have been trusted.
Barbara Starr, good stuff. Good reporting. My thanks to you for that. Let us know if you get anything else.
STARR: Sure thing.
SANCHEZ: All right.
Floodwaters are now threatening small towns in the Midwest and in the Northeast. We have got some unbelievable pictures that we are going to be sharing with you in just a little bit and letting you know exactly where this is going to happen. This is in small towns. And that's where many of you watching this newscast live. And we want to bring you that story.
Also, who is the most intriguing person in the news today? A man who never told police about a child-molesting priest. The priest went on to terrorize dozens of other children. That story is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
It's now time to reveal who is the most intriguing person of the day.
He is a man of the cloth, a Catholic priest, and now a cardinal. Thirty-five years ago, though, he was a church lawyer investigating sex abuse charges against a fellow priest. He did not go to the police with the awful evidence that he had found. Years later, that priest was convicted of molesting many more kids and died in prison.
Today, our "Most Intriguing" says he's sorry. "I want to say to anyone who has been hurt by any failure on my part that I apologize to you with all of my heart." He says he won't step down from the current position.
The most senior Catholic clergyman in all of Ireland, despite loud calls for his removal, his name is Cardinal Sean Brady. He is facing his demons and his past, and that's what makes him today's "Most Intriguing Person" in the news.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REESE HOPKINS, ACCUSED OF CHILD RAPE: I didn't rape anybody. I would never rape anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is a RICK'S LIST exclusive. Imagine someone who is so famous that he has his own talk show, he's syndicated. People all over the country are listening to what he has to say on any given day.
And now the only people who can talk to him have to go behind bars like Brooke Baldwin did to talk to him. This is an exclusive jailhouse interview that you will see coming up in just a little bit.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There is a delightfully snarky tweet that we received just during this break, and I want to share it with you.
You know we told you that story moments ago about what was going on with this terrorist who was just killed for attacking and killing CIA agents in Afghanistan. Well, look at this tweet that we're getting right now from you.
It says, "Hey, Rick. What's up with this Obama guy killing and capturing all of these terrorists? I thought he was soft. I mean, I thought he was all professional and soft?"
With that, you know, we call ourselves a list, so we list all the best videos of the day. And we call it "Fotos del Dia."
First up, Iran. They call it football because you play with your feet, but this player from Cameroon used his hands and his head for fighting.
Striker John Negodi rushed the stands, attacked the spectators. Not sure what started it. It was like a one-man soccer riot there for a minute, but then his fury became contagious -- players, fans, refs, cops, everybody. No word on whether he will be charged, suspended or both.
To Florida now. Armed robbers rushed a Brink's guard after he returned from a pickup, and it was captured on tape.
They wrestled inside the truck. The crooks fired a shot at the guard. They missed.
The bullet then brushed his pants, we're told. The Brink's driver hit the gas, throwing one of the bandits to the pavement. And the robbers fled in a minivan which they ditched 20 blocks away. No word on how much they got away with. Now, it's St. Patrick's Day, and people across the country are celebrating in many different ways. In Wisconsin, the city of New London changed its name to New Dublin. Temporarily, of course.
Now let me take you to Chicago. They observed the tradition of dyeing the Chicago River green. That's right, they do this every year in one of America's most Irish towns.
First lady Michelle Obama says she misses living in Chicago, she misses that Green River. So what did they do? They dyed the fountain at the White House green for her.
By the way, did you wear your green today? I've got mine on. This is green, despite what many of you are tweeting about. And I know you have.
You said it doesn't look green. It is green. Cross my heart and hope to -- spit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOPKINS: I'm begging for somebody to believe me. I don't think that's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A former talk radio host accused of raping a child. Brooke Baldwin goes into the jailhouse to do an exclusive interview with him.
When you consider who this person was and what he had going for him, being as famous as he was with a syndicated show all over the country, it's interesting.
Looking forward to seeing what you're going to present us.
So, stay right there, folks. Brooke's joining me in a moment here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
It's time now for "The Brooke Block," so named by Brooke. And this is where she brings us a list of the stories that is almost always captivating not just to her, but to many of you. But today she's doing something a little bit different. Let me tell you what she's doing.
Today we're looking at a radio talk show host. His name is Edward Hopkins. He's making headlines.
He's actually well known nationally for his gift of gab and his political commentary. And you probably are familiar with his one-time syndicated radio show on Hot 97. It was called "Star and Buc Wild." And his Boston midday show on WRKO.
In fact, I've had him on my show in the past, just doing an interview about something. And we had him on as a guest. This was in October of 2008.
But since then, man, his world has been rocked, it has changed dramatically. And the guy that we interviewed back then is not the guy we're talking to now.
Go ahead.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, you talked to him in October of '08. You were talking presidential campaign. Two days later, Reese Hopkins -- he goes by "Reese" -- he was arrested and charged with raping an 11-year-old girl.
Now, I have been working both sides of this story. We've been trying to reach the victim, hear her side, but also hear from Hopkins.
And guess where I was Monday? I was in jail.
I was allowed one hour. I had a Department of Corrections official sitting over my shoulder and watching the clock. One hour with Hopkins and, of course, question number one, did he do it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOPKINS: I'm begging for somebody to believe me. I don't think that's going to happen.
I didn't rape anybody. I would never rape anybody. It's an ugly crime, and I am not an ugly person.
I want to go home. I mean, what do I have to do? I thought I did what was asked of me. I wasn't there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Here is what the other side is saying. The assistant district attorney's office is speaking on behalf of the victim. She's still not 18, so they wouldn't talk to us on camera, but they gave us this statement. Let me read it with you.
They say, "The grand jury found there was ample evidence to indict the defendant on charges of raping a child. We will decline further comment until this case comes to trial, particularly with respect to the victim, who is still a minor."
SANCHEZ: When did this rape allegedly happen?
BALDWIN: It happened a couple years ago. It happened some time between September and October of 2004.
But according to the ADA office -- they're the one handling this thing and speaking on behalf of the victim -- they say, you know, she didn't come forward with the accusation until three and a half years later.
A little bit more background. The alleged victim says Hopkins raped her in his Upper East Side Manhattan apartment which he shared with his then-girlfriend and their children. The connection here is that his girlfriend's daughter was friends with the alleged victim. He said she would come over a couple of times a week, she lived on the same block. But he emphasized to me in our interview -- and I tell you, I pressed him on this -- he said he was never alone with her and he never acted inappropriately.
SANCHEZ: Well, if you say you don't do something or haven't done anything -- I mean, he sounded to me like a guy who is really willing to make his defense and say, I did not do this -- does he have an alibi? Does he have any kind of proof where he can put himself somewhere other than where they say he was?
BALDWIN: Yes. So I have two pieces of paper. This is essentially his alibi here.
He has these documents. One is from his landlord saying that he absolutely moved out of his Manhattan apartment where this alleged rape occurred and into a Connecticut apartment five months before this alleged rape happened.
I also have a letter from the owner of the condo in Manhattan. Says he was out of there, he handed him the keys, it was empty.
Now, since the alleged victim never actually went to the hospital after this alleged rape happened, there is no DNA, no evidence to prove his guilt or innocence. But Hopkins says it really all boils down to his word versus hers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOPKINS: I'm going to do everything I can to prove my innocence. But nonetheless, everybody else is going to look at me and they're going to have that little wondering eye -- well, what if he did? And I've got nothing to defend that.
But I've done everything to defend that. I've proved that I wasn't in New York in September. I've proved that I was living out of state. I was living out of state months before.
I've done every bit of that. I've done what's been asked of me by law. Prove you weren't there. And I did that.
BALDWIN: You feel like you're being totally railroaded?
HOPKINS: I have to be being railroaded. There's no other way to put it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is interesting. Obviously, there's always two sides to every story. But I understand that the prosecutors, the D.A. in this case, the state, has given him some kind of deal. Right? A plea deal?
BALDWIN: Right. So here's the thing. They offered last year this plea deal. They say, hey, Reese, you can get out of jail -- essentially, it's called time served -- plead guilty to a lesser felony charge, walk out of jail today, but register as a sex offender. Or the alternative, stay in jail, go to trial, fight this thing. But if you're found guilty, you could be spending up to 25 years in prison.
Hopkins said he would rather die in prison than plead out. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOPKINS: You don't know how many times I thought about that plea deal, because it became more about waking up every day in a jail cell instead about what was right. And that's what this place is built to do.
BALDWIN: To do what?
HOPKINS: Beat you down until you give in. Nobody hands you a deal like that if they believe that you raped a child. Who hands you a time-served deal?
It's supposed to be considered a gift. But what kind of gift is that? The rest of my life I'm supposed to be considered a sex offender.
Forget about ever doing the job that I love. Well, actually, I can forget about that now. It doesn't matter. I've already been accused.
It's already a life sentence. It sucks when nobody believes you and you're telling the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know, I'm just sitting here listening to his words. And he makes a heck of a point. If they really believe that he raped a child, why in the world would they be giving him this deal saying, you've done enough time, go ahead, you can walk? Something sounds a little fishy here.
BALDWIN: Well, I checked up on his language, because he said that this would be a gift. Right?
So I picked up the phone today. I called the prosecutor. And I said, "Really, is this a gift? Why would this be allowed?"
And she told me that a gift really would be -- in her opinion, wouldn't be to have somebody register as a sex offender. Rather, say, put him on probation, maybe go through -- you know, endure mental health treatment, that kind of thing. Obviously --
SANCHEZ: But she confirmed that, in fact, they are willing to give him this plea deal that would give him only time served?
BALDWIN: Sure. No, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Which means he's already done his time.
BALDWIN: Right, absolutely. Absolutely.
But prosecutors -- and here is the big missing piece, because we're not getting anything more from the ADA office. They obviously have some kind of smoking gun, because you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, let's say, his guilt. And so there must be some kind of smoking gun that I don't know about, but it's thought- provoking.
SANCHEZ: This is an interesting story.
BALDWIN: It's though-provoking.
SANCHEZ: Is he a flight risk at this point?
BALDWIN: He is a flight risk. And he says he can't afford bail. It's set at 100,000, so he's sitting in a Manhattan detention center. And the trial, April 8th. So we'll follow this.
SANCHEZ: You're going to cover that for us?
BALDWIN: You got it. I'll pay for it.
SANCHEZ: Oh, good.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much.
BALDWIN: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it, Brooke.
All right. Take a look at this, folks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've had it. We've been here for 22 years. This is the fourth flood, and this is the ultimate.
In 2005, it was bad. But I can't handle this anymore. I just can't. And I'm sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, here we go again. There's more flooding in the Midwest and in parts of the Northeast.
These are people who live in places where they thought, you know, I don't want to live in this big city. I want to live in a rural area. I want to live near a river.
Well, guess what? That river is trying to take itself back, or take back the land it originally owned.
Topping our list of stories affecting small-town America, a potential mess. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
This is what you look forward to every single day. This is the point in the show where we get to what is maybe the most important list of the day.
This is "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
Who is it? Well, let's just say we may be at our most vulnerable when we're sitting in the dentist chair, right?
Michael Clair of Fall River, Massachusetts, who worked behind those walls in that building is a dentist. He's accused of finishing root canals with -- get this -- paper clips. And then, as if that wasn't bad enough, he's accused of billing Medicaid as if he had used high- tech, expensive procedures and equipment.
He was using paper clips on people's mouths. And when he got pushback, he allegedly hired other dentists for the clinic and he filed claims under their numbers instead of his. He's also accused of illegally prescribing drugs to staffers who would then give him the medications.
I mean, are you thinking the same visual in your head that I am? I mean, do you remember "Little Shop of Horrors"?
A grand jury has indicted Dr. Michael Clair on charges of battery, larceny, submitting false claims to Medicaid and illegally prescribing drugs. We wanted to get his reaction, but right now neither we nor the police can find him.
Regardless, today he makes "The List U Don't Want 2 Be On."
College basketball teams who don't graduate enough players should be banned from the NCAA's basketball tournament. So says the secretary of education. He's come forward and talked about what's going on in college basketball.
"The Wolf Pack" is next with Wolf Blitzer.
What else is on his list? Stay right there. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Time for "The Wolf Pack," so named by Wolf Blitzer. This is where he brings us the list of things that are on his mind.
And before we get started, Wolf, can you do me a favor?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Sure.
SANCHEZ: I'll do it for you in the future if you do it for me.
BLITZER: All right.
SANCHEZ: My daughter is turning 10 years old today. Would you say, "Happy birthday, Savannah"?
BLITZER: Of course.
Happy birthday, Savannah. This is a great day for you. Many more. And you're blessed to have a great dad.
SANCHEZ: Oh, that's great! Oh, God, she's jumping for joy right now.
Thanks so much, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Let's start with the thing you're interested in. This is the NCAA tournament time. Everybody is talking about it.
BLITZER: By the way, just because we call our segment "The Wolf Pack" doesn't mean I'm a huge North Carolina State fan. But I do like "The Wolf Pack."
SANCHEZ: I knew you were going to go with that.
But speaking of North Carolina State and Duke and all the others, Arne Duncan said today, look, if you're a team in the NCAA and you don't graduate at least 40 percent of the student athletes on your program, you shouldn't be allowed to play in the post-season.
What do you make of that? I've never heard a guy in the White House say something like that.
BLITZER: I think it's going to cause a lot of consternation for a lot of the big-time athletic departments around the country, some of the major schools. They don't have that kind of graduation rates for their big-time ball players, whether football or basketball or any of the other major sports.
And it's going to force a lot of them to rethink how they operate and how do business. But Arne Duncan is a very smart guy, and he's trying to do the best he can. This is one area, as you know, Rick, that there could be some cooperation between Democrats and Republicans when it comes to the issue of education. So we'll see.
SANCHEZ: It's gutsy.
We just got a call. Angie, my executive producer, just told me that Dennis Kucinich is going to be coming on with us tomorrow.
BLITZER: Great.
SANCHEZ: He's going to be on RICK'S LIST. So you can e-mail me later on and tell me --
BLITZER: You know who's going to be in "THE SITUATION ROOM" today?
SANCHEZ: Who?
BLITZER: Michael Moore. He's got a very similar position when it comes to single payer and health care. Michael Moore is going to be joining us today in "THE SITUATION ROOM" during our 6:00 p.m. hour.
SANCHEZ: He's been ripping on Geithner, by the way. Michael Moore has.
BLITZER: Yes. I know he has.
SANCHEZ: You should ask him about the whole Geithner thing. He is just fed up with the whole financial reform thing, according to what he's been telling guys like Bill Maher, et cetera, et cetera.
By the way, we're also getting the Republican head tomorrow on, Michael Steele.
What did you think of Kucinich coming out today and doing that flip?
BLITZER: Well, I think it took guts from his part because he has been so adamantly opposed to this health care reform legislation because, A, he's in favor of a single payer system. He wanted a robust public option. None of that is in this legislation.
He's critical from the left. Unlike so many of the so-called Blue Dogs, the moderate Democrats, who are critical from the right, he's critical from the left. And today he said a couple of days after traveling back to Ohio with the president, he said as much as he dislikes this bill, he's going to vote for it because he thinks the alternative is even worse. So it took guts for him to do it.
SANCHEZ: But he told me just a week ago -- he told you, too. I mean, he was on both of our shows. This was when I was doing the 8:00 a week and a half ago. He said, I'm against this thing, I'm going to vote against it.
BLITZER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: I mean, what does that say about the fact that the president put him on the plane and took him to his home state?
BLITZER: I don't know if it's -- you know, he's a pretty principled kind of guy, and he's very tough, Dennis Kucinich. I'm not sure it was simply of a matter of the president stroking him and getting his ego going or anything like that.
I think he, like Michael Moore, has basically come around to the conclusion, well, you know what? This health care reform legislation doesn't do as much as they wanted originally.
BLITZER: Something is better than nothing.
BLITZER: But it will bring in 31 million Americans who don't have health insurance. It will bring them into the system. And on that basis, he thinks it's probably a good idea.
SANCHEZ: All right Mr. Wolf Pack. Thanks. Appreciate it.
BLITZER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Let's do it again tomorrow. All right, buddy?
BLITZER: All right.
SANCHEZ: All right.
This is the list that affects people who watch us all over the country who aren't necessarily living in big cities. In fact, they live in small-to-midsize towns for a reason. But then comes spring and all hell breaks loose.
I used to live in Fargo and Moorhead. That's both North Dakota and Minnesota, as you know. So, I know a little bit about this.
But first, look at the flooding in the Northeast. Somebody who knows more about this is an iReporter who sent us this tape a little while ago.
Listen to what they're saying about what it's like to be there right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN SCHWARTZ (ph), IREPORTER: Hi. This is Brian Schwartz reporting for CNN iReport.
You're looking live at the Exeter River in Exeter, New Hampshire, which flows north and eastward out to Great Bay and Little Bay, which eventually flows out into the ocean. And you can see --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Look at those pictures. And they say it could possibly get worse both in the Midwest and in parts of the Northeast. And we're going to be all over that for you.
In the meantime, my thanks to you for being with us on this day. We'll look for you again tomorrow, right here on RICK'S LIST.
I'm Rick Sanchez.
Here now, Wolf Blitzer and "THE SITUATION ROOM."
