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American Morning
New CBO Numbers for Health Care Reform Released; Democrats Push to Reach Needed Votes; Retired American General: Gay Soldiers in Dutch Military Responsible for Genocide in Bosnia; How High Will Gas Prices Go?; American Spring Breakers Urged to Stay Away from Mexico; Saving Time & Money With High Speed Rail; Health Care on the Cheap
Aired March 19, 2010 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up on the top of the hour, it's 7:00 Eastern Daylight time on this Friday, March 19th. Thanks for joining us on the Most News in the Morning. I'm John Roberts.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. Here are the big top stories this morning.
The numbers are in and the end is near. We're now on the verge of a historic health care vote. President Obama has postponed a trip overseas going to Indonesia and Australia, because of this year of work could finally be paying off, and he wants to be there, but will there be any last minute surprises? We're live on Capitol Hill counting the votes this morning.
ROBERTS: Watching and waiting in Fargo. Right now nearly 1 million sand bags standing guard over the Red River that's rising. But downstream roads are flooded and the water continues to creep ever closer to homes.
CHETRY: Also, the spring break that wasn't. Beaches are vacant, streets empty, and Americans are staying away. Mexico is dealing with a violence problem that's spreading to our border. This year the sun and surf comes with a sobering message.
ROBERTS: But first, President Obama and fellow Democrats hoping that this is it. A final vote on health care in the House is expected on Sunday. And, we're finally getting a look at the price tag. A Congressional Budget estimate says it will cost a whopping $940 billion over the next decade.
And under the plan, 32 million people who are currently uninsured would get health care coverage. It also predicts that the plan would cut the deficit by $1.3 trillion, but that will take 20 years. President Obama is saying that is like killing two birds with one stone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This is but one virtue of a reform that will bring new accountability to the insurance industry and greater economic security to all Americans. So I urge every member of Congress to consider this as they prepare for their important vote this weekend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Does he have the votes to get it passed? We've been keeping count. By CNN's tally, at least 33 Democrats remain undecided, and time is running out to win them over. Our Brianna Keiler is live in Washington. It's still a couple of days to get those 33 Democrats on board, Brianna. Does it look like the president and Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer will be able to do it?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They don't have the votes right now, John, but Democratic leaders are confident that they are going to have the votes in time for possibly as early as a Sunday vote.
Let's break it down, because Democrats are planning on going this alone, not relying on any Republican support, and that means they have to have at maximum 37 Democrats who vote no on this. If they get 38 Democrats who vote no, presumably the bill would be dead.
Right now by CNN's whip count, 28 Democrats have said that they are going to vote no. So you can see certainly there's a little bit of uncertainty because there are some undecideds, but that number can't climb too much higher, John.
ROBERTS: Who are some of these undecideds, Brianna?
KEILAR: They're varied. For instance, Congressman Tom Perriello, he represents central and southern Virginia. He's a freshman, only been in Congress about a year, and he was considered one of major underdogs in the last election. He's facing a very tough reelection in November.
He has concerns about the issue of abortion, making sure federal funds weren't going to be used for abortion, although he does say now that his concerns there have been assuaged.
But on the other side you have Congressman Marcy Kaptur, a very different story. She has been in Congress since 1983 representing northern Ohio. She voted yes in November but she is now undecided. And it's that abortion language that has her concerned because it's the Senate bill now the House is considering and it's a little less stringent than what they looked at in the fall in the House.
And then take a look at a Republican, if you can believe it, Joseph Cao. We actually considered he was going to be a no vote because of abortion issue as well. But local reports say President Obama has reached out to him, asked him to take another look at the Senate bill that the House is considering, and that he is going to take a look.
But bottom line here, this is a pressure cooker of a day, John, because after the bill has been out now for about 24 hours going into later today, Democratic leaders will say to their members -- you've read it. Are you in or are you out?
ROBERTS: It's going to be a busy one for you and your colleagues today. Brianna, thanks so much.
CHETRY: And it actually is going to take time to read because this bill is 153 pages long. We picked out some of the key points though for you this morning, so let's take a look.
For first time ever, nearly all American would be required to buy health insurance. Those who don't would have to pay a penalty that would reach nearly $700. Employers with more than 50 workers would also face penalties, $2,000 per employees if they don't offer affordable coverage.
ROBERTS: The bill would increase tax credits for middle income families who want to buy insurance and delay the tax on so called "Cadillac" insurance policies until the year 2018. Consumer safeguards would not kick in until 2014 when insurers would be prohibited from denying coverage for preexisting conditions.
If you want to check out the full bill, head to CNN.com. All 153 pages are posted there.
CHETRY: Also, other stories new this morning. There's more money for students in it as well. When the House votes on health care this weekend, it is also considering a proposal that would make the government a one-stop shop for student loans. The measure would also raise the maximum Pell grant award to $600 to $5,900 by the end of 2020.
If it passes, private lenders like Sally May would not be allowed to write federally backed loans, which generally offer the lowest interest rates.
ROBERTS: Snuffing out the cigarette ads, the Food and Drug Administration cracking down on big tobacco. The new rules, a ban on cigarette companies from sponsoring sporting and entertainment events, outlawing free samples and giveaways, and restricting the use of vending machines. The measures take effect in June.
CHETRY: Also, Bernie Madoff, the convicted swindler and conman, reportedly attacked by another inmate. The attack reportedly happened back in December and left Madoff with a broken nose, fractured ribs, cuts to his head and face.
"The Wall Street Journal" is reporting the attacker was upset about some money Madoff owed him. Interestingly enough at the time the federal bureau of prisons claimed he was being treated for high pressure and dizziness and he himself did not report any attack.
ROBERTS: Landing with everything in your bags. The airlines are apparently doing a better job of not losing or damaging items in your luggage. Complaints are down a whopping 50 percent since 2004. The TSA credits new surveillance cameras and better screening equipment. The claims involve both carryon and checked bags.
CHETRY: The Red River is taking over and fast. Roads are underwater, homes are threatened, and this morning Fargo, North Dakota is watching and waiting to see if the massive sand-bagging effort will hold the waters back.
(WEATHER BREAK)
CHETRY: First rumors swirled that Oscar award winning actress Sandra Bullock's marriage was on the rocks amid claims that her husband cheated on her. Now her husband, Jesse James, is fessing up and issuing a powerful apology.
A former tattoo model initially came forward claiming she had a nearly year-long affair with James. Although he isn't coming clean completely, he said his poor judgment is deserving of "everything bad coming my way."
ROBERTS: The motorcycle shop owner also says the only person to blame for the situation is him. Since the scandal has broke, Bullock has canceled a publicity appearance overseas.
CHETRY: Up ahead, a stunning charge aimed at gays serving in the military. At 7:13 eastern, Barbara Starr and the story of a former NATO commander who dropped a bombshell on Capitol Hill yesterday saying that openly gay soldiers were partly to blame for genocide.
ROBERTS: At 7:26, spring breakers take a break from Mexico, leaving stores empty and beaches deserted. Find out why so many students are staying north of the border this year.
CHETRY: And at 7:40 eastern, life at 220 miles per hour -- will the bullet train be the magic bullet for high speed rail across America? Billions of dollars and thousands of miles of track, and the big question -- will all of states come aboard?
It's nine minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: It's 11 and a half minutes after the hour and that means it's time for a check on what's new this morning.
Pollen, plants, pollution, this year's allergy season is kicking in early. Doctors say some allergies have doubled in the past 20 years. Doctors say wearing sunglasses can help by keeping irritating pollen from sticking to eyelashes and eyelids. But there are a lot of sufferers out there this year.
CHETRY: Ford, Nissan, and even dogged automaker Toyota posting better sales in the first half of March and in the last year and a half actually. More drivers taking advantage of the good deals at the car lot, promising what some see as an industry comeback. Analysts say that sets a pace unseen since cash for clunkers campaign.
ROBERTS: Google is expected to announce on Monday that it's withdrawing from China by early April. And there could be an even bigger fallout from Google's censorship battle with the Chinese government. The company's Chinese partners reportedly sent a letter this week warning of legal fallout if Google's pulls out of the market entirely. CHETRY: And in protest of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," a gay soldier handcuffed himself to the White House fence yesterday. Lieutenant Dan Choi as well as a former Army captain both wearing their uniforms when police arrested them.
The Army has been trying to discharge Choi, a West Point grad, after he came out on national TV last year. That case is still pending.
ROBERTS: There were explosive accusations during the Senate hearings on the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. A former U.S. general making some inflammatory claims, saying the Dutch army was not able to save thousands of Muslims from being killed in Bosnia in 1995 because gays were allowed to openly serve in its military.
CNN's Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is following the story for us from Washington. Barbara, it was a pretty incredible statement yesterday.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON REPORTER: John, it's hard to know what to do other than shake your head. I have to tell you, from the U.S. Senate all the way to European capitals they are dismayed and shocked by this statement.
Retired General John Sheehan was a senior commander in NATO at the time of all of this. Testifying on Capitol Hill yesterday, he talked about that Bosnian Muslim massacre in Srebrenica back in 1995 when Dutch peace keepers were overwhelmed by Serb forces -- 7,000 Muslim men by all accounts were murdered in a massacre, one of the darkest moments in European history.
General Sheehan had a reason why this all happened that I must tell you no one has ever heard this before. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN SHEEHAN, FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER, ATLANTIC: The case in point I'm referring to when the Dutch were required to defend Srebrenica against the Serbs. The battalion was under- strength, fully led, and the Serbs came in to town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off and executed them. That was the largest massacre in Europe since World War II.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did the Dutch tell you because there were gay soldiers there?
SHEEHAN: Srebrenica it was a combination --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did they tell you that? That's my question.
SHEEHAN: Yes, they included that as part of the problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: General Sheehan testifying in favor of keeping the ban on gays openly serving in the U.S. military. He is accurately recounting what happened at Srebrenica, but no one has really ever said before it had anything to do with a soldier's sexual preference.
The Dutch government reacting very adamantly to this, a Dutch spokesman saying, quote, "It is unbelievable that a man of this rank is stating this nonsense," that according to the Dutch defense ministry spokesman.
It should be said, of course, that Dutch military troops serve very honorably today in Afghanistan alongside other U.S. and NATO forces. Srebrenica was, of course, John, as you recall, widely investigated. There was plenty of blame to go around. But the statement by General Sheehan was never part of the debate -- John.
ROBERTS: Right. Well, it certainly is now. Barbara Starr, thanks so much. Barbara Starr at the Pentagon this morning.
CHETRY: All right. Well, it's 15 minutes past the hour. When we come back, the price of gas. The highest we've seen it in two years. And now some are asking, how high will it go? Christine Romans "Minding Your Business" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back. It's 19 minutes past the hour right now. It's time for "Minding Your Business."
ROBERTS: Christine Romans is here this morning. And if you notice that the price at the pump has been going up a little bit in the last few weeks, well, you're not alone. Pretty much across the country, it's the same thing. What's going on?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: And the last time we saw it like this was October 2008, which means -- remember that was in the middle of a financial crisis.
ROBERTS: Yes.
ROMANS: And we saw gas prices going up. But look, we're looking at $2.81 a gallon, this according to AAA. That compares with $1.93 a year ago. So that's a pretty significant spike in gas prices and you have probably felt it. And actually what it is, is $730 million more a day we are spending to fill up our cars. So that's money that you're spending in the gas tank that you also can't spend someplace else at a time where we know our pocketbooks are already stretched.
On the national resources Defense Council, there's an interesting study about where people feel it worse. Of course, the NRDC is a conservation focus group but these numbers are good.
Mississippi, for example, 11 percent, percent of income that would be spent on gas. That's more than $3,300 spent on gas. Montana, Louisiana, Oklahoma, South Carolina, these are places where you're the most vulnerable to a price hike because of a few things. The family car is the number one way you get around. You don't have a lot of choices for public transportation and lower incomes to begin with in those states. Rural areas, people have to drive farther, right? The least vulnerable states are places like New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Hampshire. Although people who are living in those states will tell you, wow, it's costing more to fill up my tank. They feel it too.
So just a reminder that as we get forward towards spring break and into the summer season, you are seeing -- every year we say you're seeing gas prices go up. The government says maybe about $3 a gallon by the summer. Some of the people I talked to, like Peter Beutel at Cameron Hanover, he says maybe 3.50 by Memorial Day.
ROBERTS: Wow. What's the trend with oil prices?
ROMANS: Oil prices have been going up too.
ROBERTS: Yes.
ROMANS: And this is one thing that's interesting about oil prices that the economy has been so weak, but oil prices are still going up. What happens if the economy really starts roaring and you get a good economic recovery? People are saying, look, you should probably prepare for higher gas prices ahead.
CHETRY: Christine Romans "Minding Your Business" this morning. Thanks.
CHETRY: Oh, yes, one quick thing about our "Romans' Numeral." It's OK. We talked about --
ROBERTS: Oh, we have a numeral?
CHETRY: No, we just talked about uploading YouTube clips. Right?
ROMANS: Yes. So, I messed it up.
CHETRY: Twenty-four hours worth every minute.
ROMANS: Yes, 24 hours worth of video uploaded on YouTube every minute. Not 24 hours of video every hour.
ROBERTS: Twenty-four hours every hour would be a lot.
ROMANS: It is.
ROBERTS: Every minute, that's huge.
ROMANS: It is. No, it's at least 24 hours every hour.
CHETRY: Every minute.
ROMANS: But really it's 24 hours every minute, yes.
CHETRY: (INAUDIBLE)
ROMANS: You know what? I'm going to put it on amFIX so you can all figure out what is Romans talking about. Check out amFIX on Twitter, I'll show you.
ROBERTS: A new segment. What the heck did Christine just say? Thanks, Christine.
Spring break, time to put away the books and head straight for the sand and surf. But this year, many college students are steering clear of one of the most popular spring break destinations. We'll tell you why coming up.
It's 21 1/2 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: More than 200 federal, state and local authorities have joined together in El Paso, Texas, for what they're calling Operation Lockdown (ph). They're trying to solve last weekend's murder of three people in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico. The victims all had ties to the U.S. consulate and were shot to death after leaving a birthday party. Investigators are targeting members of a Texas gang known as the Barrio Azteca that has been involved in the murders, kidnappings and drug trafficking as well. And because drug violence is surging again in Mexico, American officials are urging spring breakers not to travel to the country this year. A tall order considering the government estimates that more than 100,000 American teens and young adults venture to Mexico each and every year. But as our Ted Rowlands found out, the travel warning is leaving many places like Tijuana virtually deserted.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, we're in Tijuana, Mexico, on Revolucion Avenue. And take a look at what you see. You see shops are open. There's plenty of merchandise, but there's nobody here buying it. There are literally no tourists on this avenue. And normally it would be full of people especially this week because it's the beginning of spring break. But because of all of the drug violence in Mexico and specifically here in Tijuana, people are petrified and they're staying away.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JUAN RAMON ROCHA, TIJUANA STREET VENDOR: Business, as you can see by yourself, it went down about 95 percent.
ROWLANDS (voice-over): Images like the school murder scene of three students killed earlier this year have been shown around the world as part of the ongoing story of Mexico's drug cartel violence. Which in Tijuana, over the past two years includes decapitations, police officers slayings and 1,300 murders.
(on camera): There are problems in Tijuana.
RAY SILVA, TIJUANA STREET MERCHANT: There are problems. We cannot deny that. This is a big city. We're over perhaps two million people. But the problem is with certain people, certain areas -- ROWLANDS (voice-over): Driving south along scenic Highway 1 which connects the beach cities along Mexico's Pacific Coast, we don't see any U.S. license plates. About an hour and a half later, we arrive in Ensenada. More than 200 students from Westmont College in Santa Barbara, California are spending their spring break here building homes for the poor. Westmont students have been coming to Ensenada for 33 years. Some schools have canceled spring break trips to Ensenada. Westmont decided it was safe enough to send their students.
HANNA WALKER, WESTMONT COLLEGE STUDENT: I was a tiny bit nervous crossing the border. I have been here before but not for service projects. I'm a little bit (INAUDIBLE) but now that I've been here for a few days, I'm perfectly comfortable.
ROWLANDS: The school is taking precautions, no stops in Tijuana this year and students stick together.
WALKER: Staying in a group, making sure I'm with someone all the time. You know, buddy system when we were downtown last night for dinner, we just paired up and walked around in twos and locked the car. I mean, you know, just being smart about it.
ROWLANDS: While Ensenada and other vacation cities in Mexico are still considered safe, the fear of border drug violence is enough to keep people away. Even some cruise passengers are hesitant to go ashore in Ensenada.
ROBERT BARR, TOURIST: I didn't see why not. My children ironically watching the news are a little bit concerned.
ROWLANDS (on camera): What do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know.
ROWLANDS: Not too scary, is it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A little, but mostly not. No.
ROWLANDS (voice-over): At Papas and Beer, which in years past would be filled with college students during spring break, business is down 40 percent.
CESAR MARQUEZ, MANAGER, PAPAS AND BEER: I guess they're afraid of traveling by Tijuana. I guess that's what's hurting Ensenada the most.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: Things, of course, are much worse here in Tijuana and other border cities. This is where the American government has warned people to be very careful. And people are not only being careful, they're just simply staying away -- John, Kiran.
ROBERTS: Ted Rowlands for us this morning from Tijuana. Ted, thanks so much. Tourism isn't just down in the border towns. Here's a closer look in an "AM Extra."
According to an agency that handles student travel bookings, bookings in Cancun, at least, are down 30 percent from last year. It's even worse in Acapulco. Bookings there are down 45 percent. All of this, of course, comes in the heels of last year's devastating collapse when international tourism was down $2 billion mostly because of the weak economy and the swine flu scare. Tourism is the third biggest source of money going into the Mexican economy. Only oil and remittances, that's money sent home for Mexican-Americans rank higher than tourism.
CHETRY: Wow. Tough situation there. Tough problem.
It's 29 minutes past the hour right now. A look at our top stories this morning.
The Red River is rising this morning with a million sandbags now in place. People in North Dakota, as well as parts of Minnesota holding their breath. Right now, the Red River is swollen to nearly 35 feet. It's 16 feet above flood stage.
ROBERTS: The White House is sending Middle East envoy George Mitchell to Jerusalem this weekend, hoping to ease tensions between the two countries. Mitchell will be trying to convince Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu not to develop disputed land in east Jerusalem. Netanyahu will visit Washington next week.
CHETRY: And a final vote, House vote on health care reform is expected to happen on Sunday. A Congressional Budget Office estimate is now out. It says that the Democratic measure will cost $940 billion over the next decade and reduce the deficit by $130 billion during that same period. By CNN's count, at least 33 Democrats remain undecided. President Obama postponing a planned trip to Australia and Indonesia this weekend to do some last minute arm twisting.
So it is shaping up to be one of the toughest votes in recent history as Democrats in Congress attempt to push health care reform legislation across the finish line. The consequences are great for nearly all Americans who would be affected by the bill and also for members of Congress, many of whom could be sticking their careers on this vote.
I'm joined this morning by Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky. She famously lost her House seat back in 1994 because of her vote on President Clinton's bounced budget bill back then. Also joining me Tony Blankley, former press secretary to former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich.
Great to talk to both of you this morning. You both literally had a front row seat to a similar situation back in '93-'94. So, it's great to get your take on it.
Marjorie, I want to start with you, as we said, you faced the situation making the tough call to vote in favor of the president's balance budget bill back in '94 and it cost you your seat. What is your advice today to Democrats facing a similar situation with this health care overhaul?
MARJORIE MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY, SENIOR FELLOW, FELS INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT: Well, just quietly go to your office and decide. I think that we're facing some real problems. Well, let me back up a little - and the chatter is very similar. It's going to be catastrophic. We're going to find incredible financial ruin, et cetera. And that's exactly what was being said now. Different financial times but that's exactly what was being said in 1993. And I also told the president that I knew how important this was then.
I think it's analogous situation now and that I wouldn't let it go down. So my problem was more I was the final vote. I just think that you have to show leadership here. Something has to be done. It's not a perfect bill but it's a step in the right direction.
CHETRY: And Tony, you were press secretary for then House speaker Newt Gingrich during this time that Marjorie is telling about. She's telling Democrats, you know, vote your conscience. Cast a vote you can be proud of. You say voting for this bill would make them anything about proud. Why?
TONY BLANKLEY, FMR. PRESS SECRETARY FOR NEWT GINGRICH: Well, I agree with her. They should cast their vote based on their conscience. But as you mentioned in the set-up, the president and the Democratic leaders is pressuring democratic congressmen and congresswomen to vote other than their convictions, and their conscience. These are the corrupt bargains. Senator Nelson from Nebraska who traded his position on abortion for more money for Nebraska Medicaid. The Louisiana purchase, the office (ph) of jobs, the threats of the democratic leadership is giving, the president won't campaign for, unless you vote the way we tell you. That's not a conscience vote. That's the opposite. So I completely agree with the former congresswoman, they should vote their conscience.
CHETRY: Go ahead, Marjorie.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINKSY: And you guys never do that? Unfortunately, I agree by the way with some of the deals that were outrageous, but that's the way you get bills passed and you know that, you certainly did it too.
BLANKLEY: But I'm not - you're arguing, I read your op-ed, I thought it's an excellent piece that you a representative owes their people their best judgment and conscience, which is exactly correct. That's all I'm asking. Now, do sometimes members not live up to their obligations? Absolutely. But you're asking them to live up to them and I'm agreeing with you.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: But I think what one has to do, sometimes you lead, sometimes you are led. I think you have to lead here. The fact of the matter is.
BLANKLEY: I agree. MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: In your congressional office, you never, almost never get people calling in who are satisfied. After the vote in '93, we did a poll and it was split, 50/50. In our office, it was - I mean, I would walk in and say nine out of 10 people are calling in telling you not to do it. So I think in this case, especially on these huge issues, you got to quietly go into your office, close the door, look at the downside, look at the upside, look at the debate, good/bad and then sometimes it means that you're going to be led and sometimes it means you're going to represent as they or sometimes it means that you're going to have to lead. I think now is the time to lead. And I think we've got to start on this health care bill.
BLANKLEY: Well, I agree with you. And I think you represent both aspects. One you voted your conscience, which is what you should have done. And you lost because your district disagreed with you.
CHETRY: Tony, let me jump in here and let me ask you a question now. Being realistic, no one is ever going to agree on all aspects of something as large as a health care overhaul.
BLANKLEY: Yes.
CHETRY: In some ways, there are things many people agree on. They believe that it's better to pass something that helps the uninsured, that prevents these insurance companies from hiking rates, from dropping people with pre-existing conditions. I mean, in some ways is it better to get something out there, something done and then work from there?
BLANKLEY: Three quarters of the country does not want the public to vote for the bill. It's going to increase the deficit of the country by trillions of dollars over the next decade. Three quarters of a trillion dollars - if you've got a baby -
CHETRY: It's going to reduce the deficit.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: No, no.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: But that's the way it's been presented.
BLANKLEY: No.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: The fact of the matter is there are things that will work.
BLANKLEY: Let me just finish my thought. The CBO, I'm just quoting, (INAUDIBLE) in the "Washington Post," very liberal says, as everyone understands the CBO is going to do what it's instructed to do. (INAUDIBLE) quarter of a trillion dollars every decade is taken out of the bill so it doesn't count. But the reality is our grandkids are going to be paying the interest payments on the money that's going to be costing us because we're borrowing money from China to pay for the health care bill. That's the reality. MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: I'm so sick of our telling - well, not me anymore, but I mean, our telling people what they want to hear as opposed to what they need to hear. We're going to sock our kids with a debt and a deficit that they'll never be able to figure out if we don't start to fix health care.
BLANKLEY: But madam, this bill increases that deficit, and there's no way around that fact.
CHETRY: According to the Congressional Budget Office, it says it will reduce the deficit by more than a trillion dollars over the next 10 years.
BLANKLEY: And I have a standing bet with anybody, $10,000, that this program will cost more than CBO. Even CBO's letters to the senators say that we're only doing - these numbers because you instruct us to exclude certain costs which won't happen politically, as you understand. So there's a game being played. The CBO is honest but they're forced to do what the Congress tells them to do as far as assume we're going to save a trillion dollars, OK, we assume that even though you're not going to do that. That's the history. That's why every entitlement bill has cost more in reality than it did, when it was predicted by CBO.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: Well, let's -
BLANKLEY: And this one's no different.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: Well, let's start to have those conversations. I can remember in the early '90s, the Republicans wouldn't even touch the conversation about social security and the Democrats were just as bad. I mean, we've got to start about entitlements. We've got to start to talk about that third and fourth rail.
BLANKLEY: Good. I've written books on the topic. I agree with you, ma'am.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: No.
CHETRY: Let me ask both of you quickly before we leave. What are the risks for your party? Let me start with you, Marjorie, because there are a lot of people who say, I mean, if these Democrats vote yes, especially in some of these conservative districts, especially in ones where they are up for election. They went for McCain in '08. They're going to get a big, big challenge and could possibly be booted from office.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: This is not a zero sum game. It could also be the opposite. It could if that if they don't vote for it, there are a lot of people in their district who care enough to vote them out. So I just think that they've got to quietly decide what's the right thing to do. I think the votes will be there, I think it will pass. And I think it's at least a start.
CHETRY: Tony, last word? BLANKLEY: I assume it will probably pass when a president and his majority leaders in Congress want something, they usually get it. But everyone will pay the price later on.
CHETRY: All right. Well, I thank both of you for your perspective this morning. Very interesting conversation this morning. Marjorie Margolies-Mezvinsky. I'm sorry I'm tripping over your name.
MARGOLIES-MEZVINSKY: That's OK. No one ever gets it right.
CHETRY: A lot of Ms there. Thanks to both of you for being with us.
BLANKLEY: Thank you.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Bullet trains in America. Will they soon be a reality? Can we keep up with the Japanese and the French and now even the British? Casey Wian in California after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Time for an "A.M. Original," something that you will only on AMERICAN MORNING. The Obama administration is betting that bullet trains are the magic bullet to solving a lot of our problems, from unemployment to pollution. It's investing $8 billion in stimulus money in high speed rail lines, connecting cities across the country.
All the yellow lines in this map are the proposed high speed rail lines, a lot of the cash is heading to congested California. But will it pay off? Our Casey Wian takes us on the long commute for answers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, we're driving north of downtown Los Angeles, heading towards San Francisco. It's a journey of about 380 miles. If you do it nonstop, sticking to the speed limit, it will take about six hours. But in the not too distant future, Californians may have an opportunity without getting on a plane to make the trip in a lot less time.
(voice-over): Nearly three times as fast. They are planning to build a high speed rail system to carry passengers between the big cities at speeds up to 220 miles an hour.
(on camera): Why is high speed rail a good idea for California?
CURT PRINGLE, CA HIGH SPEED RAIL AUTHORITY: We can't build enough freeways to accommodate for all of the future growth of the state and the same thing is true with airlines. You can't build enough air capacity in the state to cover all the demands of Californians.
WIAN (voice-over): Our drive from Los Angeles to San Francisco began at 7:45 in the morning. We made two brief stops and ran into a little traffic and arrived at five past 2:00 in the afternoon, more than six hours later. What you're seeing is that entire journey at 15,000 times normal speed. To show the difference with a high speed rail ride, here's the trip again, three times as fast.
(on camera): How much is this going to cost? And how much more do you still need to raise?
PRINGLE: The whole project, on phase one, from Anaheim through Los Angeles through the Central Valley unto San Francisco, that is a $42-plus billion project.
WIAN: That's a lot of money.
PRINGLE: It's a lot of money.
WIAN (voice-over): So far, more than $12 billion in state and federal money has been set aside to build the first sections of track. Supporters say that will create about half a million jobs, improve air pollution and ease freeway and airport congestion. But critics say the high price of high-speed rail will never pay off.
ADRIAN MOORE, REASON FOUNDATION: The plan for the high speed rail in California right now requires in order to work that it be the fastest train ever built in the world, the most cost-effective train built in the world and have the highest ridership of any high speed train in the world.
WIAN (on camera): And that's not realistic?
MOORE: No. More than Europe and more than Japan, more than China? That's crazy.
WIAN (voice-over): Moore says not only do Europe and Asia have the advantage of greater population density and often shorter distances between big cities, they also launched high speed before building this much competing infrastructure -- something the U.S. will have to work around.
(on camera): Just look at this area here. Just logistically, what it's going to take to actually get this done?
MOORE: Along here, the line is supposed to come through there. We've got a narrow canyon. Like you said, there's a road. There's an existing rail line. There's a freeway.
And then there's the hills on both sides, and they're going to put the line through all this. And that's going to require tunnels and elevated structures and lots of things.
WIAN (voice-over): Things like the possible demolition of at least 25 newly-built homes here in Buena Park.
Given all the challenges, some say the money would be better spent simply widening California's notoriously clogged freeways.
(on camera): But now that we've completed our more than six-hour drive from Los Angeles to San Francisco, the idea of making the trip on a high speed train and doing it in less time than it would take to drive to the airport in Los Angeles, hop on a plane, and then take a taxi here to San Francisco, certainly sounds appealing -- John, Kiran.
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CHETRY: You would you love that?
ROBERTS: Well, I don't travel that much between San Francisco and Los Angeles. But -
CHETRY: If they did it up here -
ROBERTS: Well, yes, I mean, you know that corridor between Washington and Boston, boy, if you put a real high speed train in there, (INAUDIBLE) mostly goes 80, 90, 100 miles an hour, if you get it up to 200 miles an hour, that's actually pretty efficient traveling.
CHETRY: There you go. Pretty cool how he showed us in warped speed.
ROBERTS: You know what's interesting now. Every time you mention high speed rail line in the northeast corridor, somebody out there says you're trying to subsidize Amtrak. No, we're just saying a high speed rail corridor would be a great thing.
CHETRY: Agree. Well, it's 45 minutes past the hour and when we come back, Reynolds Wolf will have this morning's travel forecast. He's keeping an eye, of course, on the Red River in Fargo, North Dakota.
ROBERTS: Yes. He's got this morning's travel forecast right after the break. Stay with us.
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CHETRY: So what's in a name? Well, apparently $30 million. Songwriter and music producer Rob Fusari is suing pop star Lady Gaga. He claims that Gaga ditched him after he came up with the Lady Gaga name and also co-wrote some of her hits. So far Lady Gaga's camp is not responding to the lawsuits.
ROBERTS: $30 million, you'll gaga over that. No question.
It's 47 minutes, almost 48 minutes after the hour. Let's get a quick check on this morning's weather forecast.
Reynolds Wolf is in Atlanta this morning.
And just how badly are they going to get socked in the areas of the west there with some -- some snow, rather, and what's going on in the flood areas?
REYNOLDS WOLF, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, in the flood areas we're going to see these waters continue to rise. Today, John, it's hard to believe that just yesterday in about 24 hours the water rose about three feet. Now we can expect it to level off around 38 feet or so as we ease into the weekend.
Remember flood stage is right around 16 to 18 so we're about 20 feet or so above normal is what we can anticipate.
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ROBERTS: Wow, look at that. Holy cow. That weather was so bad it just blew him away.
CHETRY: Yes. That accumulating snow --
ROBERTS: You heard that big wind and then no more Reynolds. Sorry, problem with -- he's not using the right type of batteries.
CHETRY: I guess not.
ROBERTS: Where's the pink bunny with the drums.
CHETRY: Exactly. Because they keep on going and going and -- then they're gone.
ROBERTS: All right. And this guy keeps going and going as well. The man with the stomach of steel strikes again. Competitive eating champion Joey "Jaws" Chestnut down in Florida on St. Patty's Day, scarped down -- get this -- 15 1/2 corn beefed sandwiches on rice stock pie. Took him just 10 minutes to do it.
Chestnut is the three-time defending champion at the Super Bowl of competitive eating, The Nathan's Famous Hot Dog Eating contest. Last year he beat his own record in the event, eating 68 hotdogs in 10 minutes.
CHETRY: I love the guy that needs headphones. You know, you're just drowning out all the noise as you're chugging down 15 corned beef sandwiches.
ROBERTS: You know many people might be used to corned beef sandwiches which have a couple of little pieced of corned beef and a piece of lettuce.
CHETRY: Yes.
ROBERTS: You know these were big. These are like stage or Carnegie deli size.
CHETRY: Oh, yes.
ROBERTS: They were big. Fifteen of them. Unbelievable.
Ten minutes to the top of the hour. We are going to burp and we'll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHETRY: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." Fifty- three minutes past the hour right now. It's time for your "AM House Calls," stories about your health. And with just two day before this crucial vote on health care overhaul that we've been talking about, there's still a lot of debate over how to keep health care costs down.
ROBERTS: Well, one of the world's top hospitals, the Mayo Clinic, is being hailed as a model for doing just that, keeping costs much below traditional hospitals.
Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us live from Atlanta this morning.
You sat down with the former head of the Mayo Clinic to talk about all of this, Sanjay. And I know that you're very excited about all of this.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I am. You know, because the mantra is and the raps sort of on this health care system as a whole in this country is that we pay too much and we get too little.
I mean that's what's really driven a lot of what we're talking over the last year and certainly over the next couple of days. But there are places in the country that do just the opposite. They deliver very high quality care, arguably world-class care, and they do it at a fraction of the cost.
I was so curious, how can you possibly do it. Here's what Denis Cortese had to say.
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DR. DENIS CORTESE, FORMER MAYO CLINIC CEO: I think it's been an evolution over many years. Over the past several years, payment has really been linked very much to whatever is done.
We ended up with a model that is now called fee for service, where we are paid for doing things to people. The ultimate of that, if carried to the extreme would be the sicker you are, the more money we make as physicians. The more times you come into our office, the more money we make. The more procedures we do, the more money we make.
That's just the opposite of what high-value care should be all about. Do we pay the most amount of money to people that may do procedures or should we be paying a little more money to nurses and primary care doctors to keep you from needing those procedures?
GUPTA: Are there greedy people in the system the way you just outlined it? Doctors greedy, pharmaceutical companies greedy, insurance companies greedy? Is that what has driven some of this?
CORTESE: I think so. I think that's been part of it. There's a little -- there's an element of greed there. There's always that element of fraud that is lurking in there and it's -- to me, whatever those ancillary drivers are that have pushed prices up have been sort of caused by the fact that the country has not focused on getting its money's worth out of health care.
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GUPTA: I can tell you, you know, there's really two things that he was really driving at. This was this idea that fee for service, you know, the idea that you pay to take care of sick people instead of just paying to get the person well, and get them out of the hospital.
Also, the Mayo Clinic doctors are salaried. There's no incentive to order more test, keep the patients in the hospital longer. And these -- those two things, primarily, among a few other smaller things, really have what made Mayo Clinic what it s.
CHETRY: It is amazing. And also what about the type of care that they do? How does that -- what do they do so differently in terms of the care that keeps the quality up and the costs down?
GUPTA: You know, one of the things they started doing, and it was fascinating from a medical perspective, because it made perfect sense after they started doing it, but it was this idea that they're going to do very coordinated care.
So Kiran, let's say somebody goes in because they're concerned about maybe having breast cancer. They're going to get the mammogram, they may need to get a biopsy, they may need a consult with a surgeon.
Typically, that maybe three or four different hospital visits and different parts of the hospital, the scanner may be over here, the surgical consult over here. They put it all sort of in one area, so literally in one visit the patient can come in and get an answer, and get a diagnosis, and perhaps even schedule treatment all within a very short period of time.
Makes sense for the patient, obviously, but it's a lot cheaper for the hospital as well and ultimately these salaried doctors all coordinating their care. It's making them much more efficient.
And, look, you know, this isn't hypothetical. The reason this is relevant is because it worked at Mayo Clinic. When you get these sort of pilot programs around the country, that's how you start to address this very, very sticky issue of cost, which everyone agrees is not being discussed probably enough at this point.
ROBERTS: All right. Well, obviously, it will be discussed more, though.
Sanjay Gupta for us this morning. Doc, thanks so much.
By the way, tune into "SANJAY GUPTA, MD" this weekend.
GUPTA: Thanks, guys.
ROBERTS: Sanjay continues to investigate why many patients are not getting the health care they're paying for and what you can do about it. That's Saturday and Sunday, 7:30 a.m. Eastern.
And the top stories coming your way in just about two minutes. Stay with us.
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