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Nancy Grace
Does Underwater Photo Show Natalee`s Remains?
Aired March 19, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police couldn`t or wouldn`t make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot, even after high-tech surveillance catches him describing the night Natalee was killed. After Van Der Sloot`s father, judge Paulus Van Der Sloot, key in the alleged cover-up for his son, collapses dead, speculation Joran Van Der Sloot would slip. Sure enough, just days after his father`s cremated, video emerges of Van Der Sloot claiming he`s there when Holloway falls to her death from a balcony.
Bombshell tonight. A group of divers` grainy photos surface, including what is now believed to be a human skeleton face up on the rocky ocean bottom off the Aruban shore, the photo now in the hands of U.S. investigators. Aruban police confirm they will also investigate. Tonight, have the remains of American girl Natalee Holloway been located? Will justice finally win out?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a look at this. Is this newly obtained underwater photo the break in the Natalee Holloway case investigators need?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, SUSPECT IN HOLLOWAY DISAPPEARANCE (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Patti Muldowney says she was snapping pictures during a snorkeling trip off the Aruban coast. She noticed this picture of what she and others believe contains a human skeleton.
GRACE: Do you have any doubt in your mind that he is responsible for her death?
DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S FATHER: No. There`s no question in my mind at all.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her, and she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: He said this even in this third confession, that he was with her when she died and then he helped dispose of her body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now the image in the hands of the FBI. Is this the crack in the Holloway case prosecutors need?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A group of divers` grainy photos surface, including what is believed to be a human skeleton face up on the rocky ocean bottom off the Aruban shore.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now a new photo surfaces of what just might be a skeleton off the coast of Aruba. Could it finally crack the Natalee Holloway case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: You`ll notice in this third confession, he makes sure that she`s dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A retired Pennsylvania couple says they snapped pictures while snorkeling off the coast of Aruba. But when they returned from vacation and looked at their pictures, one really stood out.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): And at one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movies. This is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Shaking?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes. Very much. So I said to myself, (EXPLETIVE DELETED), what is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This photo, which they say appears to show a human skeleton.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She was shaking? Was there foam coming out of her mouth?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): No. No foam coming out of her mouth. I didn`t see that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A possible skeleton found off the coast of Aruba, the country Natalee Holloway vanished. Could it be Natalee Holloway? The picture now with the FBI.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: It`s still hurts to listen to him say all these crude things about, you know, your daughter. But I believe that`s the closest to the truth that we`re going to get at this point in time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will this image finally bring justice for Natalee Holloway?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up. And at one time, Patrick, it was just like in a movie. This is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Shaking?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): Yes. Very much. So I said to myself, (EXPLETIVE DELETED), what is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What did you do then?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I stayed with her. There was nobody there, Patrick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Of course there was nobody there. It was night, Joran.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her, and she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): So how long was she shaking for? Do you know what that is?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): An epileptic attack or something?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She was shaking? Was there foam coming out of her mouth?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): No. No foam coming out of her mouth. I didn`t see that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The bombshell tonight, apparently, some snorkelers take a photo. Only when they get back and they`re looking through the photos, along with the other people that were there in the water with them, do they realize they believe they have a shot of a skeleton on the rocky bottom of the ocean floor, looking up. It`s there just off the Aruba coast.
Straight out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. What do we know, Ellie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, this group was down in Aruba. They were actually on a cruise back this past fall. They made a stop in Aruba and they went on this snorkeling trip. They took a picture. Actually, Patti Muldowney, who`s going to join you in a minute, took a picture. It wasn`t until later, after she got it developed and she met back up with some friends who`d been on this cruise, they all started comparing vacation photos, and one of the other women said, Look there, it looks like there is a skeleton on the floor of the ocean.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent In Session. You`ve been on the case from the very beginning. Where would this be in relation to where Joran Van Der Sloot says he was last with her?
JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION: Well, in that video that you just played with the investigative reporter talking to him when he didn`t know he was being recorded, that Natalee`s father has said he believes could have credibility, that`s where he says her body was taken to, an ocean, a body of water. Also, the confession that he recently gave said it was swampland. Once again, body of water. Could that have gone out to an ocean? There is some corroboration here, Nancy.
GRACE: Now, the other thing -- Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer on the story. Rupa, I`ve done a lot of underwater dives. And isn`t it true that this alleged sighting of a human skeleton is near what we call a wreck dive? There are some German ships that are sunk, that have been sunk there, and people go dive and look around, as best they can safely, around that area?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. It was a German shipwreck in 1945 called the Antilla, which went down, sank, and is in that area. The ship can actually be seen from aerial shots through the water`s surface. And this snorkeling area is quite close to this shipwreck.
GRACE: You know, what`s interesting is when you have a wreck dive like that, a lot of ocean debris -- and when I say debris, I`m talking about shells, whatever debris comes up, you`ve got coral, fishing nets, fishing lures -- they seem to gravitate because of the current toward these wrecks, these boats or whatever has been sunk for divers to go look at.
I want to go to the couple that went there to Aruba, that were snorkeling and took the photo. Joining us exclusively out of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Patti and John Muldowney. First to you, Patti. You took the photo, right?
PATTI MULDOWNEY, TOOK PHOTO OF POSSIBLE REMAINS: Yes, I did.
GRACE: Tell me what happened. What led you there?
MULDOWNEY: Well, we went on a snorkeling trip, and they stopped right at that area. So we all jumped off and we went snorkeling.
GRACE: So a boat actually took you out to the area, Ms. Muldowney?
MULDOWNEY: Yes.
GRACE: OK, so what I`m...
MULDOWNEY: It took us out to an area...
GRACE: ... getting at is, this wasn`t just off the shore where you walked out and then went face down in the water snorkeling. A pleasure boat took you out to the area, then you jumped of the boat.
MULDOWNEY: Yes. That`s right. That`s right.
GRACE: OK. So you were a little bit further out. OK. Then what happened, Ms. Muldowney?
MULDOWNEY: Then I got -- I had my camera and I started to snap pictures of all the fish. That was the main reason why I was out there, to snap some colorful fish.
GRACE: And?
MULDOWNEY: So I was out there. And then after it was -- you know, then I came up onto the boat. It was a disposable camera that I was using.
GRACE: So at that time, you didn`t realize really what you thought -- what you had captured on film.
MULDOWNEY: That`s correct. That`s correct.
GRACE: Was your husband, John, with you?
MULDOWNEY: He was actually on the boat. Two friends of ours, they were the ones that were snorkeling with us. There was a group. But my husband was actually on the boat. He did not go snorkeling.
GRACE: Had you ever snorkeled before?
MULDOWNEY: Years and years ago.
GRACE: Did anyone -- was anyone actually diving and going down to the ocean floor?
MULDOWNEY: No. No.
GRACE: OK. To John Muldowney. What do you recall when you first took a really hard look at this photo? How did that come about?
JOHN MULDOWNEY, WIFE TOOK PHOTO OF POSSIBLE REMAINS: When I looked at that photo, I said, By darn, that certainly does look like a skeleton. But I started showing it around to different people, getting comments, What do you think? I just told them to look at this picture, What do you see? And of course, there`s that little snake (ph) that Pat was taking on the right side of the picture. And then they`d look and say, Oh, my God, yes. That looks like a skeleton, a human body.
So I showed that to an awful lot of people, even my doctor, and they all agreed that that is a corpse. You can see the skull. You can see where the eye sockets were. You can see where the chin was, the arms. It`s laying flat on its back and its arms are cradled around. You can almost see fingers. And then on the one sleeve, it looks like some kind of maybe clothing that`s deteriorating. It`s -- you know, you couldn`t tell if it was a garment or not.
But like I say, we sure showed it to a lot of people, and I wouldn`t tell them -- I`d ask them, What do you see when you look at that picture? And when the police saw it, they called the FBI. And the FBI transferred me to Quantico, Virginia, and I told them the story.
They put me in with Philadelphia, with the FBI in Philly. They told me to send them the picture, the story, and send it to their violent crimes department. And I did. I sent it registered mail. So I knew when they got it and who signed for it. And I didn`t hear anything for a month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVE HOLLOWAY: It brings up a lot of stress and anxiety. You know, I look at it two ways, Nancy. It`s good that he`s talking, but I don`t like the way that he`s being portrayed or done (ph).
I don`t like the fact that he`s in it making money on a crime that he`s, you know, committed and profiting from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): So how long was she shaking for? Do you know what that is?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): An epileptic attack or so?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I don`t know.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: I believe the one in the SUV, when he was not aware he was being recorded, is the closest to the truth that we`ll ever see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In an interview shown on European station RTL, Joran Van Der Sloot claims he was at a friend`s house with Natalee where she was drinking and doing drugs on his balcony. Van Der Sloot then suggests Natalee Holloway was dancing on the balcony and Van Der Sloot tried to grab her. But Van Der Sloot claims Natalee fell to her immediate death.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: In these statements you tell a lot of the truth, but then again, you lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot says he and his friend then picked Natalee up and threw her in the back seat of his friend`s car, the back seat covered in blood as the two sped towards a swamp to dispose of Holloway`s body.
DAVE HOLLOWAY: There`s some bits of truth to all these statements. And it`s just a matter of dissecting them and putting it all together and looking at, you know, Is there anything we`ve missed and is there anything else that we can do to move this investigation forward?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A couple goes there to Aruba for pleasure. They go out snorkeling. And unbeknownst to them -- only until they get back and take a look at their underwater photos do they believe that they have photographed a skeleton there off the Aruba coast.
Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, In Session, are we sure the photo has been sent to the Aruban authorities?
CASAREZ: I think they have just gotten it now, or are expecting it. The word is that the FBI did not immediately give it to the Aruban authorities. They have just discovered it now and were actually greatly pleased about it because they have wanted more evidence, more ways to go in this investigation.
GRACE: Out to Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist joining us from Ft. Myers. Heather, thank you for being with us. Let me ask you, you have taken a look at this. What do you detect?
HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST (via telephone): Well, if these are skeletal remains, one of the things that I would look for would be a roundness of the cranial vault, or the skull. I would also expect that the jawbone, or mandible, would have separated from the cranium. I would also expect perhaps some of the smaller bones of the nose and the bottom of the eye sockets to have been removed. In addition to that, it`s been my experience dealing with underwater burials that also the extremities, the fingers, the arms and the legs tend to be dispersed.
GRACE: What do you mean by that?
WALSH-HANEY: Well, I mean with the current of the water, sometimes the lighter bones are going to be carried away from the center, the thorax, the heavier parts of the bodies. In addition to that, the various types of invertebrate species, fish or other types of wildlife that`s in the water, will pick at the remains and disperse them, take them away, move them to other areas.
GRACE: With me, Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist. By looking and studying the photo, do you believe it`s possible these remains had been placed inside of something? You see that cylinder there.
WALSH-HANEY: I see -- it looks as though there is something on top of what may be the skeleton. That would certainly bode well for preserving the center of the mass of the body and keeping most of it there.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Elizabeth in Texas. Hi, Elizabeth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. I`d like to find out why they didn`t even pursue him with criminal charges on trafficking women when he was caught on videotape. And every comment that he`s made, in every lie, there`s a little bit of truth. Whatever his father covered up, I believe the system is going to still have to cover up their own selves, and that I think the Holloway family needs to pursue them in a civil suit in order to get criminal...
GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, she`s got a good point. Do you recall when he was trying to traffic women in Thailand into prostitution? We have the video. Liz, if you could pull that up so we can see what Elizabeth in Texas is talking about. No charges were ever filed.
CASAREZ: No, that`s right. You know -- that`s true. But remember, he was in Thailand. Thai authorities obviously didn`t arrest him in any capacity, and I don`t think there`s an extradition agreement between Thailand and other countries. So I`m not sure anything could have been done at that point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In an interview aired on Dutch network RTL, Van Der Sloot attempts to apologize half a decade later for all his lies, even asking Natalee Holloway`s parents for forgiveness. But many doubt the sincerity Van Der Sloot`s apology.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In an interview with a Dutch reality TV star shown on European network RTL, Joran Van Der Sloot claims Natalee Holloway was dancing on his friend`s balcony after drinking and doing drugs. Van Der Sloot, fighting back tears, looking increasingly upset, then says, "And we were sitting on the balcony. She was standing on top of it to start dancing. Then I went to her to go and grab her, but she dropped down from the balcony. It`s really quite bad, and I`m so sorry that I haven`t told it for so long, but I was just always afraid of the consequences, as also drugs and stuff had been used."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Just when many people lost hope that justice would ever win out, now an American couple goes to Aruba for fun. While snorkeling, they take photos. Is this the skeleton of Natalee Holloway?
Back to Patti and John Muldowney, joining us from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Back to you. John Muldowney, do you have any idea whether Aruban authorities have this in their hands?
JOHN MULDOWNEY: I don`t. I heard that they only get their mail over there once a month and that`s why they haven`t seen anything yet.
GRACE: Well, have you been contacted?
JOHN MULDOWNEY: By -- no. No.
GRACE: Out to Paul Penzone, director of prevention programs, Childhelp, former sergeant, Phoenix police. Paul, they haven`t even been contacted about this by Aruban authorities.
PAUL PENZONE, CHILDHELP: I`m surprised by the lack of urgency (INAUDIBLE) seems something like this (INAUDIBLE) And it is difficult. You know, is it a skeleton? Is it her? There`s a lot of factors and there are dynamics involved. But I`m surprised you wouldn`t just get on a plane and bring that out there. That`s not to criticize law enforcement, but the chain of custody is extremely important. Urgency is critical.
GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins. Joining us out of Baltimore. Dr. Makary, thank you for being with us. Doctor, what, if anything, will we be able to tell if this is, in fact, Natalee`s remains?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, JOHNS HOPKINS: If this profile does represent a human body, Nancy, I guarantee you the only thing that`s going to come out of it is DNA evidence, with a small possibility that some substance, be it rope or duct tape or something else like that, could be identified to a source. But when I look at this, I wonder, Is this a human body? There are some things in favor of it and some things that tell me it may not be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In an interview aired on Dutch network RTL, Joran Van Der Sloot claims he and a friend put Natalee Holloway`s body in a swamp to conceal that she was drinking and taking drugs before her death. Many doubt the sincerity of Van Der Sloot`s alleged confession.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just how does Joran Van Der Sloot claim the evening started the last night of Natalee Holloway`s life?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Here`s what Van Der Sloot said happened. He left the bar with Natalee at 1:00 a.m. The Kalpoe brothers dropped them at a beach near her hotel. He said he had sex with Natalee there but then she started shaking horribly, and then he said, quote, "There was nothing."
PATRICK VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): I just know.
VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): How did you see it? Did you feel her pulse? Did it go in one time?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I just touched her and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Will there finally be justice for Natalee?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Van Der Sloot caught on secret surveillance and allegedly confesses she had some type of seizure and died, saying he then dumped her body in the ocean.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It was last fall when Patti and her husband, John, were vacationing. The couple enjoyed a snorkeling dive off the Aruban coast. But it wasn`t until they got their film developed that they noticed this. A photo that they say appears to show a human skeleton, held down on the ocean floor by rocks.
The couple says they`ve even showed local police and a doctor, who all came to the same consensus, that this looks like human bones.
Is it Natalee Holloway?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just where does the truth lie?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): At one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movie. This is what she did.
VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): Shaking?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Yes. Very much. So I said to myself, (EXPLETIVE DELETED), what is going on?
VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): What did you do then?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): So I stayed with her. There was nobody there, Patrick.
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): So I was talking to her. Talking to her. Talking to her. And she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): So how long was she shaking for? Do you know what that is?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I don`t know.
VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): An epileptic attack or something?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I don`t know.
VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): She was shaking? Was there foam coming out of her mouth?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): No, no foam coming out of her mouth. I didn`t see that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are confirming tonight that the Aruban prosecutors did not know about this photo until our show called them for a comment. They don`t even know about this photo.
Back to you, Dr. Marty Makary. You say that there are several factors for and against this being human remains. What are they?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: If you look specifically at the features on the image, what I see here is a skull frame image profile at one end and at the other end you lose it.
You kind of lose the definition and it could represent some kind of weight or a concrete or something that could drag somebody. Also you may see limbs. Perhaps the clothes is preserved around the skeletal remains. We know flesh doesn`t last this long.
What I don`t like about the photo is there`s no spinal cord or vertebral column. In fact, below this roundish skull-type profile, you see curvature which doesn`t really represent a normal spinal column.
So there are some things that tell me this may be a human remain and other things that tell me --
GRACE: Right.
MAKARY: Who knows?
GRACE: To Debbie in Mississippi, hi, Debbie.
DEBBIE, CALLER FROM MISSISSIPPI: Hello.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
DEBBIE: first I have to tell you that you always talk about being blessed having those twins. Let me tell you, they`re blessed to have you as a mother, and I know because I`m blessed to have four grown daughters with 10 grandbabies.
GRACE: You lucky lady.
DEBBIE: And when they get -- when they get older they will also be very proud of what you do.
GRACE: Thank you.
DEBBIE: But yes, I have a question.
(LAUGHTER)
DEBBIE: OK. Is it in an area of the water where it can be retrievable? And --
GRACE: Good question. To Patti Muldowney, I assume that if it`s near a wreck dive, a German boat, and there are pleasure ships going out to it then it would be retrievable. Was it open water? I mean people could go down there and dive, right?
PATTI MULDOWNEY, TOOK PHOTO OF SKELETAL REMAINS IN ARUBA: They could, yes. They could go out there and dive around. Yes, they could.
GRACE: To Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, joining us, Fort Myers, Florida.
Another question, Heather. What would it entail to go down and try to retrieve these remains?
HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Well, we could treat this just like a scene on solid ground. We can grid it, we can map in the remains, and whatever the cylinder is over the suspected remains before we move anything.
If this was indeed Natalee and she`d been in the water for six years, I`d expect that there would be some sort of calcium concretions on the bones themselves and on any of the material around her or adjacent to her.
So what we want to figure out is how tightly that material is bound to the bones and then very carefully remove all of that material by placing it into tubs but filling those tubs with the sea water.
Once we get it on the surface, we have to allow those bones to stabilize by slowly and surely changing out the water to create a neutral environment and then actually dry those bones by submerging them in alcohol baths.
GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni, what can you tell us -- do you recall when crab traps became an issue?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. If you recall, the consistent statements that Joran has made includes him and Natalee being on the beach, and he has made these statements not only in a confession on a videotape, but he also speaks about fishermen`s huts in statements made to the police.
The fishermen huts keep coming up. And early on in the investigation, when the parents, Dave Holloway and Beth Twitty, went down there they interviewed some people with a private investigator and they learned that three out of the five fishermen`s huts had been broken into the night Natalee disappeared.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, New York, Renee Rockwell, Atlanta, Mickey Sherman, New York.
Weigh in, Sue Moss.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Now that his judge has died he`s going to be Van Der Fried. This pretty boy is going to go down, and the reason why is that this seems to be exactly what was described in his first confession in that van. This is going to prove it.
GRACE: What about it, Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I have to say one thing, Nancy. There`s been two separate stories. One that she had an overdose on the beach, the other one that she fell from a balcony.
If the body can be retrieved and they determine that there`s some kind of damage to the skull or to the cranium, then we`d have to zero in on the story that he`s then talking about.
But so many different stories, Nancy, and the officials are considering this as a mixture of fantasy and lies. So there`s not too much that`s getting these Aruban authorities motivated, which is very unfortunate for the Holloway family.
GRACE: Right. And to Mickey Sherman, remember Paulus Van Der Sloot said no body, no crime. That may be -- there may be a different story now.
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": The most that they`re possibly going to do is identify this body as maybe being her. You know, and that`s such a long shot to begin with. But you still have nothing that leads him or builds the bridge from him to the body.
GRACE: Everybody, as we go to break, happy anniversary to Georgia friends Benny and Elizabeth. Proud parents of four children, grandparents of six. Now here they are 50 years ago on their wedding day.
Happy anniversary, Benny and Elizabeth Puckett.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETH TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: We want justice. And this crime has been committed on the island of Aruba, and we know the perpetrator. We know, it`s the suspect.
GRACE: By his own admission to authorities Joran Van Der Sloot, the last one to be with her there on the beach, he says he left her on the beach. He tells an entirely different story on secret surveillance video, describing how she died.
So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her, and she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): So I was talking to her. Talking to her. Talking to her. And she didn`t say nothing. Nothing.
VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): So how long was she shaking for? Do you know what that is?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I don`t know.
VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): An epileptic attack or something?
VAN DER SLOOT (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I don`t know.
GRACE: Then in a national TV interview he says that he sold her into the sex trade.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot`s already told four or five different stories about what happened. So what if he comes and tells a sixth story?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times does this person have to confess before something is done?
DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: I think that his pattern is that he will continue talking, but will he eventually be arrested and convicted and placed in jail for what he says? Whether we get the justice Natalee deserves, that`s the ultimate question.
TWITTY: We just have to, though, keep going because the only way we will get justice for Natalee is if we do keep going. I mean, if we give up, absolutely nothing will happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: All along, Aruban authorities have said they couldn`t go forward without a body. Of course, that`s not the state of the law in that jurisdiction. You can prosecute a murder without a body. But has it all turned around?
Now an American couple goes snorkeling off the Aruban coast, take a photo innocently, get home, take a look at it. They believe, as do many others, that they have coincidentally photographed skeletal remains.
Number one, is it really remains? Number two, are they the remains of Natalee Holloway?
I want to go over one last thing regarding his statements that he most recently made on yet another televised interview. This airs after his father -- many believe instrumental in an alleged cover-up for his son -- had passed away. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In an interview shown on RTL with a Dutch reality TV star, Joran Van Der Sloot is sniffling and holding back tears as he describes how he moved Natalee`s lifeless body to a car with the help of an unnamed friend.
The two would allegedly drive to a swamp to dispose of Holloway`s body. Joran says, "We just picked her up, without taking a sheet. Under her arms, just behind the passenger`s seat, against the backseat. At that point it was me by the feet and he, vice versa. Well, the water immediately starts there. So we just ran through the shrubs into the swamp and looked for the deepest possible spot, and there we just put her down."
As Van Der Sloot sits firmly with his legs crossed, eyes locked straight ahead at the interviewer, he says the backseat was covered in blood and still knows the exact spot where he and this accomplice dumped Natalee`s body.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just how does Joran Van Der Sloot claim the evening started the last night of Natalee Holloway`s life?
Van Der Sloot says Natalee and some of her friends asked them to meet them at a nightclub and Natalee was looking to dance with Van Der Sloot. Van Der Sloot finally, after years claiming he`d left Natalee alone at the beach, changes his story about what happened that night after they left the club, saying that he always told people he left Natalee on the beach, but now says he met up with a good childhood friend.
From there the night would allegedly take a very different turn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines, Mary, Ohio. Hi, Mary.
MARY, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I`ve been a big fan of you for so long. And I am -- I pray for you and your family. And them kids are so adorable. And I want to say one thing.
GRACE: Thank you.
MARY: I want to say one thing. I wish I`d had a mother like you growing up.
GRACE: Mary, I can`t tell you what that means to me because that is my main job description. Mother of twins. Let me tell you --
MARY: You`ve got your hands full.
GRACE: And thank you. Thank you for the prayers. Because to this day I really believe that Lucy, especially, and I would not have pulled through if it had not been for the prayers of the viewers. And God listened.
What is your question, dear?
MARY: OK. My quick question is, Nancy, do you really think this kid had -- this boy had something to do with it? Secondly, why aren`t they getting the body up now? Why are they waiting for so long?
GRACE: Number one, do I think it? I think it 200 percent. Why? Because he has changed his story so many times. If he were innocent, he had been telling the truth at the beginning, why not stick to the same story? Why does it change? Why does he have to lie about what happened that night?
And number two, we`re not sure these are the remains of Natalee Holloway. But if they are, I`m stunned Aruban authorities have not moved on this because every day counts.
Isn`t that true? Back to Heather Walsh-Haney. Every day you wait to go down and investigate whether these are Natalee`s remains you may lose them.
WALSH-HANEY: You`re absolutely right. We have to worry about the weather patterns that are changing that could stir up the remains and move them even further away.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." Weigh in, Bethany. What do you think as it relates to not only the possible discovery of her remains but his most recent statement that he got paid for on yet another network?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think Joran`s first story was the most accurate because he didn`t have as much to gain by it. It was in private and in a car. But I think as he got to know his audience he started to tweak the details in order to amuse his audience, in order to brag and to create the fantasy that he was at the center of everyone`s attention.
Each story has common elements that Natalee used. She danced provocatively for him, she created to her own -- her own demise by falling off a balcony or having epileptic fit. He took advantage of her in some stories and others in not, and then the body had to be disposed of.
I think in some ways this is his ultimate sexual conquest fantasy. And so he can`t help but repeat it again and again. But I don`t think the later stories are true.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez. What now, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, authorities need to get out to that water tomorrow. Now there`s a positive in all this. This was a cruise that had catamarans that went out to a particular area. They know where those catamarans go. So they can take authorities there.
But Nancy, now that this is out, people are going to want to go and souvenir search. So Aruban authorities need to tomorrow morning get out there fast.
GRACE: Jean Casarez joining us from "In Session."
Right now, everyone, "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATTY WEBSTER, MEDICAL MARVEL: For someone that goes to the Amazon on a vacation, you`d see the beauty, it`s easy to overlook the realities of what people are living there.
I was a guide leading adventure tourists around. As time went on, I just saw real suffering going on. People were very sick. People would actually sit around my mosquito net waiting for me to wake up so that I could help them with, you know, a sick child.
It was frightening to me because if they`re depending on me for their health care we`re all going to die because I certainly had no medical training at all.
I had to evolve myself more. It was either stay and do something or leave.
My name is Patty Webster, and I bring down medical teams into the Amazon jungle.
We work in so many diverse areas where the ministry of health doesn`t get to. So we often take extreme measures to get out to places.
In some of these areas many of them would never see a doctor. We work morning to night. You have so many people. You want to make sure everybody gets treated.
This is our 17th year. We are seeing more patients, providing more services. Anything I can offer them that is going to help them is just a real gift. It certainly wasn`t what I had planned for my life. But you can`t go against these forces of nature.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A beautiful young mom and her 8-year-old little boy missing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shantina and her 8-year-old son last seen driving all over Olympia.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was apparently lost and could be seen on the video looking at a map and getting directions.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There`s no rational explanation for why Shantina`s van ended up abandoned and stuck on a (INAUDIBLE) beach Saturday night.
GRACE: The body of 8-year-old Azriel James Carver has been positively identified. One of the last sightings was her at a mini-mart buying a jug of wine, the little boy, standing at her side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you know where she`s at, please help her get home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: New allegations of an alleged affair surfaced against the father of Casey Anthony, George Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I made my statement and I -- I`ve told the truth, that`s it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Alleged mistress River Cruise said she had a yearlong affair with George Anthony. Allegations Anthony denies.
GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The month before Caylee`s remains were found, Anthony told Cruise Caylee`s death was an accident that snowballed out of control.
GRACE: Well so much for the defense claims somebody else did it.
Baby Gabrielle`s mommy due in court but refuses to leave her jail cell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eight-month-old baby Gabriel has been missing since December 26th.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He was last seen with his mother in San Antonio.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police don`t know if he`s alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s two possibilities. That she killed Gabriel or that she did not.
GRACE: As the state mulls murder charges she demands her lawyer be fired.
ELIZABETH JOHNSON, MOTHER OF MISSING BABY GABRIEL: When do I get a lawyer?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The judge denied that request.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to respectfully deny the motion and confirm the appointment of counsel (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to try to find, you know, the information the best we can to try to recover Gabriel whether he`s dead or alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Jerome Potter, 24, Tacoma, Washington, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Infantrymen badge.
Remember for a big heart. Loved hiking. A forestry firefighter back home. Dreamed of being a park ranger. Leaves behind grieving mother Holly, sisters Amber and Bobby, Bobby Jo, brother Brad.
Jerome Potter, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight a special good night from the New York control room.
Good night, Brett, Liz, Evil.
And tonight happy birthday to two crime fighters, two tiny crime fighters, twins Laila and Zaria, celebrating their third birthday. Their mommy Karen, one of our superstars with Atlanta master control.
Happy birthday, girls.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
