Return to Transcripts main page
Campbell Brown
Health Care Homestretch; Obama's Education Overhaul; Backlash over a French TV Documentary; Toyota Challenges Prius Story; Tiger Wood Returns to Golf
Aired March 20, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: CNN primetime begins right now.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. We start tonight, as always, with the Mash-Up. We watch the big news all week in case you missed anything, and here's what you may have missed. The week's top story gets even big this weekend.
Health care heading towards a history making vote in the House. President Obama working the phones up to the very last minute. He delivered his closing argument Friday in Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right now, we are at the point where we are going to do something historic this weekend. That's what this health care vote is all about.
We have heard every crazy thing about this bill. You remember. First, we heard this was a government takeover of health care. Then, then we heard that this was going to kill granny. Then we heard, well, illegal immigrants are going to be getting the main benefits of this bill. There has been -- they have thrown every argument at this legislative effort.
If you believe that it's right, then you've got to help us finish this fight. You've got stand with me just like you did three years ago, and make some phone calls and knock on some doors, talk to your parents, talk to your friends, do not quit, do not give up. We keep on going. We are going to get this done. We are going to make history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And stay with CNN all weekend for the very latest from Capitol Hill.
Hillary Clinton was in diplomacy overdrive this week trying to smooth over U.S. relations with Israel. This is Israel, itself, saw a day rage on Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Early this morning protests broke out near those settlements in Jerusalem's old city. Mass Palestinian protesters throwing rocks. Israeli police in full riot gear firing back with tear gas and stun grenades.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is little doubt that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has been as mad at the Israeli government as she ever has been. But you wouldn't have known that today.
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have a close, unshakeable bond between the United States and Israel. But that doesn't mean that we're going to agree. We don't agree with any of our international partners on everything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She made her concerns known in a pointed 43- minute phone call to Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, telling him the U.S. expected him to reverse the announcement expanding the building in East Jerusalem and take additional steps to reassure the Palestinians.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Netanyahu says the settlements will go forward. He apologized only for the timing of the announcement, which came during a visit from Vice President Joe Biden.
In Rome, Pope Benedict broke his silence on the sex abuse rocking the Catholic Church in Europe right now. His remarks did little to appease some of the victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He did say was to use the opportunity of St. Patrick's Day to tell the Irish faithful that he would be addressing the issue of child abuse within the Irish Catholic Church.
POPE BENEDICT XVI (through translator): As a sign of my deep concern, I have written a pastoral letter dealing with this painful situation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But many who were victims of that abuse, Andrew Madden was repeatedly molested by a priest as a child, want more than a letter.
ANDREW MADDEN: It sounds like very empty, meaningless words to me coming from the Pope.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As Ireland celebrated St. Patrick's Day, the country's most senior cleric Cardinal Sean Brady was saying sorry for his part in covering up abuse. Last week Brady admitted he was present in 1975 when two altar boys who had been sexually abused by a priest who were asked to sign oaths of secrecy rather than take their complaints to the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The pope says his letter will help repenting, healing and renewal in his words.
The sports world breathed a sigh of relief this week when Tiger Woods announced his return to professional golf. He'll be playing in the Masters beginning on April 8th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why the Masters? Well, because it is a tightly controlled tournament. Yes, he loves playing there. Yes, he's won it in the past. This, the fans to go there, are considered to be the creme de la creme.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than four months after the Thanksgiving Day night car accident outside of his home let to the unraveling of his personal life in a very public way. Woods said today, quote, "After a long and necessary time away from the game, I feel like I'm ready to start my season at Augusta."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just three weeks ago that Woods said he had so much work to do to heal his family, his return to golf was uncertain.
TIGER WOODS, GOLF CHAMPION: I do plan to return to golf one day. I just don't know when that day will be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For pro-golf and broadcasters, it could induce theme park quality thrills. Ratings are up 93 percent when Woods plays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of good golf going on, but not the great golf that we see when Tiger Woods plays. So I think golf really needs to have him back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The president of CBS Sports predicts Woods' return will be one of the biggest media events in the past decade. And his view, second- only to President Obama's inauguration.
In Hollywood, word of another troubled marriage. This time America sweetheart Sandra Bullock. The news capped off of what was a bad week for love.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON": Any time I'm on a bed in nothing but a dress shirt and underwear next to a Dora the Explorer doll, I think, this is going to look classy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rielle Hunter provided a statement. She says, quote, "I understood what photos were being taken. It was my mistake to pose for them."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "People" quotes friends of Elizabeth's saying she was disgusted by the racy photos of Rielle posing with her daughter's toys.
WOODS: Elin and I have started the process of discussing the damage caused by my behavior.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I should have never married you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A porn star. You screwed a porn star!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sandra Bullock had a horrible thing happened to her, and it has to do with her husband and a woman who has more tattoos than 20 drunken sailors.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Sandra Bullock's husband Jesse James was having an 11-month affair with a model.
BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": She won an academy award for the first time, and then two weeks later the most devastating news.
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": You just never know who marry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Bullock's husband Jesse James released a statement apologizing to his wife and children. And that brings us to "The Punch Line." This is courtesy of David Letterman, never one to let a few good die.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN: Listen to this, Sarah Palin out in Arizona, is campaigning with John McCain. He's running for his Senate re-election. They're campaigning together out there, and I thought, hmmm, well, yes, I mean, there is an unbeatable combination.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: David Letterman, everybody, and that is "The Mash-Up."
We are coming to the end of a crucial week for President Obama's number one domestic priority, health care. Former White House press secretary Dee Dee Myers has some advice for the current president, "Be more like the one she worked for." That coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: President Obama spent much of this week racing to try and get enough support for the health care bill, but a prominent member of the last democratic White House told me that President Obama needs to work on his approach a little.
I sat down with former Clinton Press Secretary Dee Dee Myers who says President Obama should take a page out of the Clinton political playbook by making a more personal appeal.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DEE DEE MYERS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think health care will pass. I think it will pass because it's now the president's plan, and he will ask members to vote for it, and in the end, they will. And I think we'll look back and say the turning point was a couple of Mondays ago when the president put out his own 11-page summary of what his health care plan was and he made it his own.
And at that point, he attached himself to a particular plan in a much more concrete way than he had, and now it's not the House's plan and it's not Senate's plan, although there are obviously elements of that leftover. It has to be worked through in this complicated procedural situation. But it was that moment where it became President Obama's plan. I think at the end of the day that makes all of the difference in the world.
I think if he'd done that a little earlier, the bill might had passed earlier, and we might have avoided some of the procedural machinations that are going on now. The president has to own it.
BROWN: Again in your piece, you write that the president in your view, needs to get back in touch. And I was struck by this line that you have. You said, quote, "People want to have a beer with him. They're just not sure he wants to have a beer with them." Explain what you meant by that.
MYERS: Well, I think that the American people have a reservoir of goodwill for this president. They like him. They think he's an honest person. They think he's mart. They think he has the country's best intentions at heart, even if they disagree with him and think he's not always doing the right thing. there is this reservoir of goodwill towards him.
I think, though, that he hasn't -- he's talked more than he's listened, and he's a very good listener. And I think it would be great for him to spend more time going out to the country and listening to people, hearing their individual stories, look at them in the eye, and really connecting with them on a personal level. Even talking then about the stories.
We heard him this week telling the story of a woman who lost her health care because she could no longer afford her premium, and now has leukemia and doesn't have coverage. I think that story resonated around the country, I think not just in Washington. But there are so many people that know people that have had similar, terrible outcomes in the current health care setup. And they know that this is -- that it's not right. We have to -- you know, I think the president needs to, both, remind him of what's wrong and connect on a personal level, and he can do both.
BROWN: Well, your old boss, frankly, President Clinton sort of trademark that, feel your pain, kind of moment.
MYERS: Right.
BROWN: And I know you're arguing, he should open up -- I mean, you just said it, open up a little more, show his vulnerabilities, I guess. Let Americans see him sweat. How does he do that, though, specifically?
MYERS: Well, I think, you know, during the campaign, he talked more about his own background, his own roots, about, you know, his childhood wasn't easy. You know, his early life wasn't always easy. And he talks eloquently about that in both of his books. And he talked a lot more about it during the campaign, and I think there's a tendency on the part of presidents to think, oh, everyone knows that now, and I don't need to keep reminding them. But I think it's important to connect as a president in this age.
BROWN: And he doesn't do it often, but he did do it on Monday in Ohio. I just want to play that. He talked about his mom.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I'm here because of my own mother's story. She died of cancer. And in the last six months of her life, she was on the phone in her hospital room arguing with insurance companies instead of focusing on getting well and spending time with her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, it's kind of your point. He certainly told that story before, but in the context of this debate, if you're advising him, maybe it bears repeating.
MYERS: You know, and you know that story, and I know that story. But I -- I bet you most Americans don't know that story. You know we assume that people pay as much attention to all as we do Campbell, and we also know that that's not true.
So I think to repeat it, and again to connect his own personal experience, people go, oh, no wonder he feels so strongly that people with pre-existing condition shouldn't be cut off, or that people who are uninsured should have access to affordable, quality care because his own family has gone through it.
Look, that's not the only thing he needs do. He's done a lot of other things in this health care process really well. He's so good at making the rational arguments, explaining the complicated situation. But by making that final connection, emotional connection with people, I think he can just get it over the finish line, and I think this week, seeing him do it, really it just underscores, a, that it can be -- how important it is, and, b, that he can do it really well.
BROWN: Dee Dee Myers.
Dee Dee, always good to talk to you. Thanks so much.
MYERS: Thank you, Campbell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: President Obama is proposing a sweeping overhaul to education and plans big changes to "No Child Left Behind." Find out what's in store for your kids. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan joins us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: For the last few weeks, we had been focusing a lot on education, examining where the system is working and how it may be failing our children. Schools and parents, making tough choices across the country.
This week, President Obama sent Congress plans for a major overhaul of no child left behind. The name itself would be scrapped as part of the revamp of an education plan that became a signature of the Bush administration. But this White House is facing criticism that its reforms will turn teachers into scapegoats. I spoke with Education Secretary Arne Duncan, who explained what exactly is behind the shake- up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARNE DUNCAN, EDUCATION SECRETARY: There are a couple of major changes, Campbell, we want to make. First of all, we want to raise standards for all students and far too many places around the country due to political pressure, due to politics, not due to what is good for children or the economy. Standards have been dummy down. So we want to have a high bar. College and career-ready standards for every single child in this country.
Secondly, we want to reward excellence. We think there phenomenal teacher, phenomenal schools, school districts, even states, that are raising the bar for all children and closing achievement gap. Under the previous law, there are many, many ways to fail, very little reward for success. And we think we can turn that on its head and learn so much in those highly successful schools.
BROWN: So you are getting a lot of pushback from teachers, particularly the teachers union, and I want to talk about that in just a second. But first, let me ask you about something more specific. President Obama just applauded the recent decision to fire an entire teacher faculty from an underperforming school. This was in Rhode Island. It's a story we've been following closely on this show. And that sounds pretty punitive, to me. I guess, under this new initiative, are we going to see more situations like that?
DUNCAN: You never want to see teachers fired or applaud that. I think what the president was indicating was that you have to have courage in addressing those situations where it's simply not working for children. And that school has a long way to go. It has a dropout rate of more than 50 percent. Seven percent of students are at grade level in math. 93 percent are not. And so that community has to work together. And as of today, the union and the management are back at the local level, committed to bargaining together. We think that is very, very important. Those decisions have to be made at the local level.
But what both the president and I believe is where you have dropout factories, where you have schools where the vast majority of students, 50 percent, 60 percent, 70 percent are not able to graduate that's -- we got to do better than that.
BROWN: Now, again, getting more specific, under the existing law, failing schools have to offer students, either special tutoring or given the option to transfer out, to go to another school. And one of the criticisms is coming from former Bush education Secretary Margaret Spellings who calls the plan overall a mixed bag, but is critical, specifically, that your reform would no longer mandate those options.
Why the change there?
DUNCAN: Well, again, I think Washington should be less involved, and so those are great options. I think the local educators can decide what's the best option for their children, whether it's more after- school tutoring, whether it's choice. But for us to mandate, to be prescriptive here, I think that's fundamentally backwards. Let those great teachers, great principals figure out the best way to help their children.
BROWN: But don't you want to --
DUNCAN: It's a great way to do it. Building schools could be a piece of the solution, but those decisions should be made not by Washington, but at local school level, at the local community level. We'll hold folks accountable for results, but let them figure out what the best ways to help children. We cannot micromanage 95,000 schools in Washington --
BROWN: All right. I hear you, but at the same time, don't you run a risk that if there's not a mandate there, and you're relying on it to happen at the local level, that you're going to have some students who get stuck at underperforming or failing schools, and then they have no option for getting out.
DUNCAN: Well, Campbell, that's exactly what's happened in the past is that those very low-performing schools, those dropout factories I talked, nothing changed. Nothing changed. So instead of those bottom-performing schools, where there is chronic underperformance, you need to take dramatic action and do it now.
And so we're trying to, again, fundamentally flip this on its head. Schools that are getting better each year. We support those. But those schools who were simply not working for children, we have to come with a very, very different solution and deal with a real sense of urgency.
BROWN: As you know, the Teachers Unions have been very critical of the claim. They're claiming, basically, that they are being set up as scapegoats. The head of the second largest teachers union, said, and this is a quote here that "This appears to place 100 percent responsibility on teachers and administrators while giving them zero percent authority to act."
Do you think you're doing enough, I guess, to support teachers in your efforts to reach this goal.
DUNCAN: That is hugely important to us. And I think Randi Weingartner is doing a great job leading the AFT. She's a real reformer. Actually, for the first time in this law, not your schools but districts and states will be held accountable for result. So this is really shared responsibility, shared accountability that has never been true.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But that criticism is coming from Randi Weingartner. I mean, that -- she is the one thing.
DUNCAN: I understand that. We're also investing $3.9 billion into teachers and principals. We want to give teachers the working conditions they need. They need more time to collaborate. They need great mentors. We are making an unprecedented investment there. And for the first time, we're going to reward excellence. We're going to find those phenomenal teachers and make sure that we're recognizing them. We're rewarding them and learning from them.
BROWN: But can you do it if the teachers unions aren't on board?
DUNCAN: We're going to continue to work very, very closely with teachers union. We have a great working relationship, and I'm absolutely confident that we're going to do the right thing for children and the right thing for adults. We have to do those two things together, and that's what we're committed to doing.
BROWN: Well, we all want to see you solve this problem, everybody. There's nothing partisan about this. I don't think.
Mr. Secretary, I really appreciate you're taking the time to talk to us. Best of luck to you.
DUNCAN: OK, thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: What's the answer to this country's educational woes? I'm going to talk to one man who says he has the fix, but it does cost money. Would people be willing to pay more for better results, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. I want to give you an update now on tomorrow's crucial vote on health care reform. Over the past several hours, President Obama has lost vital support from fellow Democrats on this health care reform bill.
And as of right now 26 Democrats are still undeclared. That means they have not said whether they will vote yes or no on the bill. But what we do know is that 32, 32 Democrats have already announced that they will join 178 republicans in voting against the bill. If Republicans can't persuade six more of them to vote no, defeat of that bill is assured.
President Obama and Democratic leaders in Congress have a lot riding on this vote. The outcome could effect, even define the rest of his presidency. Mr. Obama was upbeat but impassioned as he spoke to the Democratic caucus about the historic vote before them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Don't do it for me, don't do it for the Democratic Party, do it for the American people. They're the ones who are looking for action right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Hey, I want to tell you that CNN special programming begins at 9:00 a.m. Eastern tomorrow morning. We'll be covering it for you all day long. This is the place to tune in, so make sure you stick with cnn, up-to-the-minute coverage, analysis from the Best Political Team on Television.
We're watching, all eyes are on Washington tonight. We are watching it from here. We're going to have much, much more, live coverage, 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Those are your headlines.
CAMPBELL BROWN continues right now. I'm Don Lemon.
BROWN: Secretary Duncan continued to push education reform this week, warning lawmakers that the U.S. is falling behind. With high school dropout rates now hitting 27 percent, the White House argues, closing the global achievement gap means raising standards across the board.
But is the president's plan the best way to boost our failing schools? Well, this week, I spoke to Geoffrey Canada, who is president and CEO of the Harlem Children Zone, and also CNN political contributor, Bill Bennett about that. He is the author of the new book "A Century Turns." We talked about what really works in the classroom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Welcome to both of you. Jeffrey, let me -- let me start with you here. What you have created, let me just tell people, is, I think, many if not most believe is a model for how it can work. Like the dream scenario. Explain what you're doing, and what you've achieved that the rest of America can't seem to.
GEOFFREY CANADA, PRES & CEO, HARLEM CHILDREN ZONE: Well, you know, we've really decided that in some communities this problem is so devastating that you couldn't just start at middle school or high school, but you have to really start with families at birth when the problem begins, and so we created something called Baby College.
We start with our families at birth. We stay with those children until we get them into our schools. And then we also support kids into college, and we're going to stay with kids until they graduate from college. So our authority is, they're just not doing education, they're doing health care. You're making sure you're dealing with the social service issues that children have. You're looking at the academics in the cultural, in the sports. You're really trying to deal with the whole child, and we're trying to stay long enough so that we can make a difference for all the children in our zone.
BROWN: And I just want to tell people, your, your Harlem Children Zone, 90 percent of your students were accepted to college?
CANADA: Yes.
BROWN: That's amazing.
CANADA: And these -- Campbell, these are not kids who are in our charter schools, because we run charter schools and there are at the ninth and tenth grade. But we also think you got to work with kids in the regular public schools.
One of the things that's different I think about our post to education, we want charter schools and we believe charter schools have to create innovation, that we have to make sure that we're doing the longest school days, longest school years, but we also work directly with public schools because so many of our kids have been in public schools. And we think both charter schools and public schools have to be great schools if this country is really going to fulfill its obligation to poor children.
BROWN: Bill, I know you know about Geoffrey's program here.
Would you want that nationalized? Can that be nationalized?
WILLIAM BENNETT, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, many of the elements are. We should obviously learn from what works. And all of the evidence is that, what Mr. Canada's doing works and it work effectively.
I know one thing that he says, it's very important, that is consistency overtime. When we've looked at the research on head start, it's not very encouraging. There's a lot of intervention, and then it stops. In my own visits to schools, and I have visited more than 600 schools. About a half of them are in city schools.
You can send children to good elementary schools where they're doing the right thing for three or four years, Campbell. But then if they go off to a middle school, where they slough off, where the standards are not in force, where the adults don't take the interest in them where they should, they could lose all the ground that they've gained. So it's this consistency over time. What we expect parents to do, you should also expect schools to do.
BROWN: And you are nodding your head.
CANADA: Well, you know, I just couldn't agree more. Typically what happens is that we deal with kids and we say they're fine, and then we send them off somewhere and you find out two years later, the kids are not fine. We think you stay with those kids. Make sure they're in high-quality programs, where the adults are held accountable, and that's one of the issues I'm getting a lot of trouble with people around this. The adults are paid money and they have to deliver for children. And we believe that the adults don't deliver, that they are the ones held responsible, not the children and the families. But then you've got to stay with these kids, get them through middle school, get them through high school, get them in college and then help them finish college. And that's when you think the job is done.
BROWN: And President Obama has said that he would love to replicate your model around the country. But it is also very expensive. I mean you rely a lot on private funding, right?
CANADA: Yes, we do. You know, we felt like we had to just show this could be done. And there was not a public-funding source that would really look at the total child. And what the president has proposed and promised neighborhoods is to really have the federal government put up half the money, so other organizations won't have to raise as much private money as we do. What we -- what we do with the private money is that we make sure that we're able to provide what children need. So if the state would only pay us for 2-1/2 hours of 4-year-old pre-K, and we know our kids need a full day, we pay for the full day using private dollars instead of just giving kids a little bit when they need a lot.
BROWN: So, Bill, how do you deal with this? I mean, not every locality is going to be able to pull off what you've done is extraordinary. But how do you replicate this on a massive scale when it requires an enormous amount of private funding and given the current challenges we're facing?
BENNETT: Well, I think two things. First of all, it's important to point out that this happens and where it happens, because there are people who don't believe that kids in Harlem are just going to succeed, they're not going to close that gap. If my research is right, the gap -- there is no gap between the kids in your program and the white children, for example, in New York City. In many cases exceeding even better.
The second point is money. And this is often about a contention when Republicans and Democrats, otherwise. The American people are prepared to spend money on education. What they're tired of, spending a lot of money on education that doesn't work. Now, we have some sense of what works. Mr. Canada's program works. The kip schools work. There are some other programs that work very effectively.
What I think Duncan is trying to do -- Secretary Duncan, I should say -- and I hope what he's trying to do is to say that the money should follow the effectiveness. And that people, for example, if they want money from the federal government, they need to do things that we know are effective and accountable. The American people, if you poll them, are glad to pay more for education just like most parents are, if they think it will work. And if you can show them it will work, they'll open their checkbook.
BROWN: So to that point then, because let's take this a little more broad now, I think you're right about what he is doing, with this overhaul of "No Child Left Behind." They are certainly angering many of their core supporters in the Democratic party by going down this path.
BENNETT: Right. BROWN: What -- I mean what's key? What is their sort of biggest hurdle that they have to overcome here that you think has to be changed for us to really see any progress here, Bill?
BENNETT: You're asking me?
BROWN: Yes.
BENNETT: Well, I think, Arnie Duncan, and I'm sure this isn't pleasant for him, he's made some of the same enemies I made, and these are folks mainly in the teachers union, not the teachers, but leadership of the unions who refuse to accept the fact that accountability means part of the measure of effectiveness of teachers is how the kids are doing. You've got to link that up, and this is what Duncan has been insistent on.
And if you do the right things by kids, you will see those results. And then, as a lot of us believe, and I think this is what Arnie Duncan believes, those teaches who are doing a great job should get better compensation, more compensation, but stop protecting the five percent, six percent, or seven percent who are dragging our kids down.
BROWN: Do you agree with that?
CANADA: Well, you know, I think Mr. Bennett has really named the core element that has to be changed if we're going to have schools be successful. You know there's this fantasy that there are no lousy teachers? Well, you know what, there are lousy teachers like there are lousy doctors and lousy journalists, and lousy everybody.
We've got to make sure that we reward effectiveness. And there is nothing more important than finding effective teachers, letting our teachers know we really care about those who are going the extra mile, producing results.
And look, the president is not saying fire all the teachers, even most of the teachers. He's saying, let's figure out how we can tell which teachers are working and which teachers aren't, and make sure that we spread the good teachers amongst all of the schools and bad teachers don't get concentrated in the really poorest schools in this country. And that's been going on for 50 years in this nation, and that has to change.
BROWN: Well, we will certainly be following this closely to see if it does.
Geoffrey Canada, it's great to have you here. You're a fantastic example for us, as we go through this process. Bill Bennett, always appreciate your time. A fabulous discussion. Thank you, both.
BENNETT: Common ground, Campbell. You know, really interesting common ground.
BROWN: I know. It's so rare. I love it when it happens. Thank you.
BENNETT: OK. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Coming up, a truly shocking documentary. Why contestants on a fake game show were willing to give each other electric shocks. They say television made them do it.
That story coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Why would game show contestants be willing to give each other painful and potentially deadly electric shocks? Well, they say the power of television made them do it. The whole thing was part of an experiment shown in a French documentary called "The Game of Death," where contestants believed they were giving dangerous electric shocks to other players. Actually, those victims were actors. But the disturbing results were all too real.
Randi Kaye has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's called "The Game of Death," and it's torture to play. On this French game show, contestants pose a question, but here's the catch: if their fellow player gets the answer wrong, he's zapped with increasing amounts of electricity, as much as 460 volts. The more wrong answers, the more voltage, the more pain.
The audience shouts for more punishment. Some contestants are reluctant, but are swayed by the audience demanding higher voltage.
(on camera) But here's what the audience and contestants don't know. There is no electricity, no pain inflicted. The players tortured for their wrong answers are really actors hired to play the part. Their screams of agony, fake.
In fact this really wasn't a game show at all, but an experiment about how far some people are willing to go to inflict pain on a complete stranger.
(voice-over) Amazingly, only 16 out of 80 refused to inflict pain on the others.
DR. JERRY BURGER, SANTA CLARA UNIVERSITY: They're in a situation where they have to act quickly. They can't stop and think about what is the right thing to do. They have to act right now. All of those things lead people to respond to the situational cues.
KAYE: The show is part of a documentary airing on French TV, which examines what its creators call TV's mind-numbing power to suspend morality and the striking human willingness to obey orders.
When it was over and contestants were told it was all an experiment, some said they didn't even think about it; they just followed orders. Others said they were worried but did not want to spoil the show, so they acted against their own principles when ordered to do something extreme.
BURGER: Everybody is torn. Nobody thought that this was a lot of fun or something they enjoyed doing, but they could not find a way to stop themselves from going along with it.
KAYE (on camera): The blind obedience in this case is being compared to the behavior of German soldiers ordered to commit atrocities inside the Nazi concentration camps. In fact, the show's whole premise was based on an experiment from Yale back in the 1960s, which used a similar method.
(voice-over) In the Yale experiment, the people inflicting the painful shocks thought the electricity was real, too. That didn't stop 2/3 of them from giving the maximum shock available, 400 volts.
BURGER: Most people will, in fact, act in this horrendous way and press the shock levers that they think are delivering very dangerous, if not lethal, electric shocks to another person. The moral there is not that people are horrible or that we're brutal or sadistic individuals. The lesson is really that, in certain circumstances, in the right situation, the average, typical, well-adjusted person will act in these horrendous ways.
KAYE: One added element in the French game showcase: contestants had to sign a contract agreeing to obey orders. For them, there was no turning back.
Randy Kaye, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Remember that runaway Prius that we were all talking about a while back? Toyota now claims it found, quote, "significant inconsistencies in that driver's story." Was this a hoax? We're going to have that story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Toyota is questioning a California man's claim that his Prius sped out of control along a San Diego Highway. The automaker says Jim Sikes' runaway Prius story just doesn't add up.
Ted Rowlands has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
JIM SIKES: My car, I can't slow down.
911 OPERATOR: You can't slow it down?
(CROSSTALK)
SIKES: No.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Jim Sikes called 911, he claimed his 2008 Prius was accelerating out of control on a San Diego freeway. But Toyota now says they don't see any evidence to back up his story.
Sikes said, while trying to pass another car, his accelerator stuck, and despite putting all of his weight on the brake, the car wouldn't stop. Engineers from Toyota and the government say they have looked at the car and there's a built-in mechanism that is in perfect working order that should have stopped Jim Sikes' Prius.
MICHAEL MICHELS, V.P. TOYOTA MOTOR SALES: We're not going to judge Mr. Sikes. The impression we have from our investigation is inconsistent with the account that we have heard from the driver of the car. And --
(CROSSTALK)
ROWLANDS: Would you drive his car after looking at it.
MICHELS: I drive one everyday, and I've driven it for 70,000 miles, and I would drive Mr. Sikes' car tomorrow.
ROWLANDS: To hammer through the point that they think Sikes' car is safe, Toyota called a press conference in a stadium parking lot complete with cars to show how the override system in the Prius works.
(on camera) Right now I'm doing in excess of 50 miles an hour, and I'm going to slam on the brake and see if this override system actually works.
And it does come down. I kept my foot on the gas the entire time, but it killed -- it basically killed the motor.
REP. DARRYL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: For more than two days, engineers, side-by-side between NITSA and Toyota went through this automobile, disassembling, re-assembling it, putting new brakes on it and spending more than two hours trying to duplicate what was claimed happen without success.
ROWLANDS: According to Toyota, the data they were able to pull out of Sikes' car revealed that he used the brake in excess of 250 times during his 23-mile ordeal. Basically, they're saying, that data recovery doesn't back up his story. Sikes, however, is maintaining that his story is absolutely correct.
Last week when we interviewed him I asked him point-blank if he was lying. Here's what he said.
SIKES: Someone who is a bit skeptical might say, "Oh, that guy in California is probably going to try to sue Toyota or is just looking for attention. What's the reality?"
SIKES: No, there's no attention. In fact, I can't believe the number of calls we've gotten, and we're just trying not to answer the phone. You know, I've only talked to a couple of people. Not asking for money from anybody. I'm just telling the story. You know we don't need the fame from this.
ROWLANDS: Jim Sikes does have an attorney. After Toyota's press conference, he released a statement saying that he'll have no comment until the government's investigation is complete.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, San Diego.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: When we come back, Tiger Woods will be playing golf next month, but will he be talking to the press? We've got that story ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tiger Woods has announced he will tee off at one of golf's biggest tournaments The Masters at Augusta National next month, setting the stage for what may be the most-watched golf event in history.
I talked to David Dusek, senior editor of "Sports Illustrated's" golf group and Christine Brennan, who is a columnist for "USA Today," and author of "Best Seat in the House."
Welcome to both of you.
David, you know, I guess this isn't a huge surprise. The Masters is this very tightly controlled event, and I think you were here -- the last time you were here, you sort of predicted that he would use this because it was such a perfect place for his return. Explain what you meant.
DAVID DUSEK, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED'S GOLF GROUP: Yes. I mean, this is a venue that's unlike any place else in sports. When you think of big sporting events, we think of VIP, chalets and all of this corporate signage. There's none of that at Augusta National. You won't see a logo other than the club's logo, any place on the ground. They even ask people to bring their water bottle, please take off the label. There's none of that kind stuff. So this is sport in its most pure. And they really sort of hold that to be near and dear.
You're not going to see tabloid type, media crash from the gates. You're not going to see people running around, holding up signs. When Tiger Woods shows up to play at the masters, he will be in the most protective environment he could possibly make his entry back into the sport.
BROWN: And they obviously know that. And they've thought about that a lot.
DUSEK: Of course.
BROWN: Christine, I was a little bit surprised by your reaction to today's announcement. You say you believe in shows he is a fraud. Explain what you mean.
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, COLUMNIST, USA TODAY: Well, that's the screaming headline, yes. By the way, I agree with David completely about The Masters. The loving embrace that Tiger will get. It makes perfect sense for him.
What I'm referring to was his announcement that we all watched 25 days ago, where in the 12th minute of a 13-1/2-minute speech, Campbell, as you well remember, Tiger sort of saying, you know, I will come back to the game, one day. I don't know when that day will be. I don't rule out that it will be this year.
Boy, you hear that, and you look at this broken man, and I took him at his word as did many columnist, and I think many fans, and then to hear that that one day is in fact 25 days away, wow, that was fast. I wish him well. I think it's a terrific recovery. But is that real? Or is that a fraud? And that's, of course, what I'm asking.
BROWN: And does she not have a point there, david.
DUSEK: Oh, absolutely. I think there's no question there was a point. I was one of the people that came on, and we talk about it. I was pretty convinced that we may not see Tiger Woods until 2011, maybe The U.S. Open in June. Much later. I'm sort of wondering what happened, and the only thing that I can sort of think of is that he and his wife, Elin, have a discussion, and basically came to the understanding that whatever situation their family is going to sort of end up, they've reached or on the cusp of reaching, and I'm hoping that she gave her blessing and said yes, go back to work.
BROWN: So both of you talked to me about the kind of event this is going to be, media event. I know, Christine, you've already got credentials -- you both already have credentials to cover the event.
DUSEK: Yes.
BROWN: But, Christine, you said that you decided to get there even earlier than you had planned once you found out that Tiger was going to be there. Why? I mean, is this going to be that much of a zoo?
BRENNAN: Oh, I think so. I don't know what David thinks, but I will get in on Monday, and that was my plan with my editors at "USA Today." And, Campbell, yes, I think it's going to be -- while the atmosphere while David describes so well, it's controlled and beautiful, and it's pristine, on the outside, in Washington Road, it's going to be a mob scene.
DUSEK: Absolutely.
BRENNAN: Yes. And, you know, the hoody Martha story of 2003, which I think the big deal, no women members still at Augusta National, but that's going to look like a picnic compared to what we're going to see with the tabloids and the paparazzi waiting outside the gates.
DUSEK: I would anticipate that there are going to be camera lenses poking out basically of every bush, every shrub thrououghout city of Augusta. But once you get into the grounds, around the magnolias and the dogwoods, it won't be absolutely the same.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: It will be very different. But the players usually hold press conferences, don't they, before?
DUSEK: Absolutely.
BROWN: So was he going to do that?
DUSEK: This is something that started actually in the Tiger era. Before it used to be journalist like myself that approach the guys. You sort of make themselves available.
BROWN: Right.
DUSEK: But when Tiger Woods came out, there were so many people that wanted this. The crushed basically became these stage press conferences. Normally, the top players and the big names will do something maybe late Monday afternoon, Tuesday, Wednesday and then they're going to start playing on Thursday.
We can anticipate that Tiger will probably do something on Tuesday afternoon, that's his tradition. But I'm wondering if he doesn't necessarily go in and have some type of an open press conference before the Masters. Get all of that stuff over with. And then when he shows up at Augusta National, it's all about the golf. I'm wondering if that tactic may be imploded by him.
BROWN: Quickly, guys, how is it going to play? I mean, he's had a lot of time off here. How does he get his game back?
BRENNAN: Well, that's the question. You know Tiger when he was missing a lot of time after his father passed away, he missed the cut at the next big major, the U.S. Open.
You know, I think Tiger will be ready. But that doesn't mean he's going to win the tournament. And, of course, I know everyone in TV land wants to make sure that he makes the cut and plays onto the weekend. But I would imagine it would be a little rust, but Tiger is still the best golfer in the world when he puts his mind to it.
DUSEK: Yes. Not to get to inside golf on this, but Tiger Woods has never broken 70 at a Masters in the first round. His lowest score ever 65, so I think a lot of people when he first comes find out, if he doesn't go lights out and shoot a great score are going to say, wow, he must really be affected by this. I think he's going to get more and more comfortable everyday that he's out at the event. I would look for him. I don't know if he's going to win, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he improves steadily every day.
BROWN: David, great to have you here. Christine, thank you very much. Appreciate it, guys.
BRENNAN: Thank you.
DUSEK: Thanks a lot.
BROWN: We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Thanks for joining us, everybody. We will see you back here on Monday. Have a great night.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK, hello, everyone. Don Lemon here at CNN World headquarters in Atlanta. I want to give you an update right now on tomorrow's crucial vote on health care reform. This is a place to be. You want to watch.
Over the past several hours, we need to tell you that President Obama has lost vital support from fellow Democrats on his health care reform bill. As of now, 26 Democrats are still undeclared. That means they have not said whether they will vote yes or no on the bill. What we do know is that 32 Democrats have already announced that they will join 178 Republicans in voting against the bill. If Republicans can persuade six more, just six more of them to vote no, defeat is assured here.
I want to give you a reminder that CNN's special programming begins tomorrow morning 9:00 a.m. Eastern. We'll be covering it all day long, so make sure you stick with us for up-to-the-minute details, coverage, analysis from the Best Political Team on Television.
I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
