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Campbell Brown
Health Care Reform Passes; Interview With South Dakota Senator John Thune
Aired March 22, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, everybody.
Tonight, President Obama just hours away from signing the health care bill into law. And that is topping the "Mash-Up" tonight. We're watching it all so you don't have to.
This is the piece of legislation that may well define the Obama presidency. Health care reform passed by a vote of 219-212 after a marathon Sunday session in the House. The White House took a victory lap today, but the president's critics not backing down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The bill is passed.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is what change looks like.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, the Democrats are savoring a major, major victory.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Kill the bill! Kill the bill!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The vote capped a weekend of high drama, outside the Capitol, hundreds of protesters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the time came to vote, not a single Republican supported the bill.
DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: the question is whether the Republicans in the Senate will engage, as they have over the last several months, in dilatory tactics, parliamentary tactics, to try and delay the vote. The votes are there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They may have 51 votes, but we have 41. And if we win a point of order, then they won't be able to override that.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: And we're going to try to repeal this. And we are going to have a very spirited campaign coming up between now and November.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leader Boehner called this Armageddon. MICHAEL STEELE, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: That is a reflection of what average folks out there are saying around the kitchen table.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Chairman, Armageddon, seriously?
STEELE: Yes. Listen to what the people are saying. This is what they're feeling.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Armageddon, Mr. Chairman, would you like a definition of that?
STEELE: Why is that so surprising to you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Later tonight, we are going to have an exclusive interview with the last president who tried to tackle health care reform, Bill Clinton.
Many Democrats hailing House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as the real hero of health care reform, but is she the most powerful woman in American history?
Diane Sawyer asked her about that and about the partisan tone of the debate. Watch this from ABC News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIANE SAWYER, HOST, "WORLD NEWS": We heard people saying this is Nancy Pelosi's one-party rule.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Shame on this body. Shame on each and every one of you.
SAWYER: We heard the minority leader, Boehner, say, shame on you, shame on you.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Well, you know, some people will do anything for the insurance companies.
(CROSSTALK)
SAWYER: Do you think that's the minority leader's motive?
(CROSSTALK)
PELOSI: Yes, I do.
(CROSSTALK)
SAWYER: His entire motive?
(CROSSTALK) PELOSI: Well, I think his motive is that there will not be an expansion of health care for all Americans with a government involvement in regulating the insurance companies.
SAWYER: And when the Republicans say they can run against you in November and this will be their ticket to win?
PELOSI: They have been saying that. They said it in '06. They said it in '08. I'm in the arena. You become speaker of the House, you're in the arena. You are the target. And you have to, shall we say, almost enjoy that.
SAWYER: "The Economist" said that you're arguably the most powerful woman in American history. A Brown University professor has said you are certainly the most powerful speaker in 100 years.
PELOSI: That sounds good.
(LAUGHTER)
PELOSI: I don't take it personally, except I take it as a compliment for all women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The House also passed a separate compromise package of changes last night. It still needs Senate approval. And, in a minute, we are going to talk with one Republican who is doing all he can to make sure that doesn't happen.
President Obama meets with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu tomorrow in the midst of a very public dispute over Israel's construction plans on disputed land in East Jerusalem. So, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had to walk a fine line in her speech today to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the leading pro- Israel lobby. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The secretary of state government eight standing ovations from America's most powerful and conservative lobbying voice for Israel, not hard with crowd- pleasers like this.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Our commitment to Israel's security and Israel's future is rock-solid, unwavering, enduring, and forever.
(APPLAUSE)
DOUGHERTY: A more tepid response when she gave the audience a dose of tough love on the issue that more than a week ago sparked a feud between the U.S. and Israel.
H. CLINTON: New construction in East Jerusalem or the West Bank undermines that mutual trust and endangers the proximity talks that are the first step toward the full negotiations that both sides say they want and need.
JOHN KING, HOST, "JOHN KING USA": What is the prime minister going to say?
DOUGHERTY: They say that he's going to dig in his heels on Jerusalem and the settlements. He's going to say Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. It's not a settlement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Israel announced its construction plans during a recent visit to the region by Vice President Joe Biden.
The world's most famous athlete is planning a comeback. And, like it or not, that does mean an actual interview. So, with the Masters just two weeks away, Tiger Woods' apology tour is kicking into high gear with twin sit-downs on ESPN and the Golf Channel yesterday. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Woods says he knows he screwed up and needs to make it up to a lot of people.
TIGER WOODS, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: As I said, I have hurt so many people. And so many people I have to make amends to. And that is living a life of amends.
BARBARA WALTERS, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": There are many questions. He did five-minute interviews with two people, and they are always interesting, but there are many questions that he kept saying were private. And that's his right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For a lot of people, the spark of those bad things is November 27. Early that day, what happened?
WOODS: Well, it's all in the police report. Beyond that, everything is between Elin and myself. And that's private.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what will Woods tell his children, 2-year-old Sam and 1-year-old Charlie, when they're old enough to understand?
WOODS: Yes, I will have that sit-down talk. And it won't be just one time. I know that. It will be numerous times. And I take full ownership of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If your father were here today and looked back on these last four months, what would he say to you?
WOODS: He would be very disappointed in me. We would have numerous long talks. And that's one of the things I miss. I have missed his guidance. I wish I could have had his guidance through all this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Tiger's wife, Elin, skipped her husband's TV interviews. "People" magazine reports she was aboard the family's yacht dubbed Privacy with their two small children.
First lady Michelle Obama was spoofed on "The Simpsons" last night. Check her out. This is in cartoon form preaching the gospel of smart girl power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: First lady Michelle Obama.
ANGELA BASSETT, ACTRESS: I was a high achiever. I got A's back when A's were hard to get. I was just like Lisa Simpson. That's right, Lisa. As an avid organic gardener, I have read your blog. But before I was who I am today, I was a nerd.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: So the lesson is, children...
BASSETT: I will tell him what the lesson is.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: He's our Joe Biden.
BASSETT: Understood.
Now, let's roll.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Sorry, ma'am. We can't seem to reopen the hatch to the copter.
BASSETT: You were saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, well, I loosened it up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Full disclosure, that wasn't actually Michelle Obama's voice. Her actress stand-in, Angela Bassett.
And that brings us to Wanda Sykes with what is quite literally tonight's "Punchline." Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANDA SYKES, COMEDIAN: This whole health care debate, it is really pissing me off. Sometimes, I get so mad, I want to punch somebody. But I can't find anyone who's insured.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Wanda Sykes, everybody. And that is the "Mash-Up."
What does the passage of health care reform mean for you, mean for the midterm elections? We have a lot to talk about tonight. We're going to start with one of the highest ranking GOP senators, John Thune, on what Republicans are up to and planning to do in response when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Health care reform is heading to the president's desk tomorrow. But if you think that means Republicans are giving up the fight, think again. In the Senate, they are doing all they can to derail a companion bill that includes changes House Democrats demand, and that is only the beginning.
With me to talk about the next steps in the health care battle, Republican Senator John Thune of South Dakota, who I spoke with a little earlier today. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senator Thune, welcome to you. Appreciate you joining us.
SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: It's good to be with you this evening, Campbell.
BROWN: Senator, a number of prominent Republicans, including John McCain, including Michael Steele, are calling on Congress to repeal the health care bill that just passed last night. Is that realistic?
THUNE: I think you will see a repeal-and-replace campaign get under way. There are going to be a lot of people around the country who are going to want to see that happen.
And I think there will be a lot of remorse among members of Congress who voted for this, too, when they realize the impact this is going to have on people across the country.
BROWN: But the question was, a repeal by Republicans, is it remotely realistic?
THUNE: Well, I think it depends a lot -- right now, obviously, we're fairly deep in the minority. And they just had the vote here. But if in November, if a campaign gets under way and the American people get mobilized on this, and November, there are some changes made in here both in the House and the Senate, and we're in a better position after the election, I wouldn't rule that out.
BROWN: So that would mean that you think Republicans are going to win majorities in both the House and the Senate in November in order for you to override a presidential veto.
THUNE: I didn't say that.
BROWN: You're pretty optimistic.
THUNE: That's wishful -- that's -- obviously, that would be -- that's -- I'm dreaming now.
BROWN: Right.
THUNE: But, remember, we could be in a better position. Now, that isn't to say that we're going to win majorities. But I think that Republicans have to carry on with the -- what we're hearing from the American people in terms of trying to right this wrong and get us back on a track that doesn't lead to a train wreck.
BROWN: Setting aside repeal, I know you and your colleagues are vowing to fight tooth and nail to block the reconciliation package from passing the Senate using sort of every parliamentary trick in the toolbox. But even many top Republicans concede that's a long shot, that Harry Reid does have the votes that he needs.
So, I guess why waste people's time, then? I mean, there are so many important issues out there for you to deal. Why not start working on one of them, instead of trying to make political hay here?
THUNE: Well, remember, the reconciliation bill includes a lot of provisions. In fact, it raises taxes more. It cuts Medicare deeper than the Senate-passed bill that the House acted on yesterday. It also has a takeover of the student loan program, which we think is something that hasn't been all that well covered yet.
So, the reconciliation bill on its own is really bad policy. And I don't concede for a minute that we aren't going to be able to have some impact on that.
BROWN: Senator, earlier this year, your colleague, Senator DeMint, said, if Republicans could stop -- I want to make sure I got it -- if Republicans could stop President Obama on health care, it would be his Waterloo.
Republicans clearly decided that they would just say no to pretty much everything here. Do you think you gave up an opportunity to try to influence what was going to become major social policy in an effort to score political points?
THUNE: We would love to have been -- had the opportunity to influence this. As you know, we were not included in the discussions from the very beginning. We did offer prescriptions that we thought made more sense.
BROWN: And some of them were included. Do you not concede anything was included in terms of the ideas that...
(CROSSTALK)
THUNE: I mean, they sprinkled some crumbs in there. But, basically, this is their bill. They went alone on this. And what we have is a product that is -- I think, reflects that, which is why they had to make all these backroom deals and 11th-hour agreements to try and sort of buy the necessary votes to get it through the House of Representatives and through the Senate as well.
BROWN: Is there any chance of Republicans and Democrats getting together to pass anything meaningful this year? Senator John McCain said -- quote -- "There's going to be no cooperation for the rest of the year. They have poisoned the well in what they have done and how they have done it."
Do you agree with him?
THUNE: Well, this was a pretty extreme example of using a very partisan process -- it's been partisan from the beginning -- and using reconciliation and the way they went about trying get this through the House, and now that it's coming back to us in the Senate, and -- and trying to accomplish all these things that they're trying to do through reconciliation is a very partisan tactic.
But that isn't to say that on the other issues that are in front of us, whether it's financial regulation, some of the other things, obviously, we're going to look at these issues on a case-by-case basis. And if it makes sense, and we think these are solutions that represent the middle, and not the extreme left, like the health care bill did, then we will be willing to work with the Democrats and to make sure that we try and get good solutions in place.
BROWN: Senator Thune, appreciate your time, as always. Thank you so much for joining us.
THUNE: Thanks, Campbell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And, tonight, when we come back, a CNN exclusive. Former President Bill Clinton gives us his thoughts on what made the difference this time around to get health care reform passed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, former President Bill Clinton is speaking out about President Obama's health care victory, a victory just out of his own reach.
Clinton spoke with CNN in Haiti, where he's helping to lead the earthquake relief effort. And here's part of that exclusive interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm very happy. You know, I worked hard.
The president and Rahm Emanuel gave me people to call. I called. I did my part. Hillary made calls. We all did. I think that -- I'm, frankly -- I was surprised and somewhat disappointed that it took as long as it did, but I think it is a fight worth making.
Quite apart from the need to insure more people, we were on the verge of bankrupting our future. We're spending 17.2 percent of our income on health care. No other big country is spending more than 10.5 percent, including all of those that have higher ratings than we do.
It's like we put ourselves in a trillion-dollar hole every year not to get better health care because of the way we deliver health care and the way we finance it. Will this solve all those problems? No. But it will solve about two-thirds of the uninsured problem and it will begin to lower this back-breaking inflation that had a stranglehold on America's economy and provide real security to everybody, without requiring anyone to change their health policy.
The fundamental difference, besides the fact that -- you know, Nancy Pelosi did a great job in the House. But the fundamental difference between now and then, besides the fact that all of the indicators have gotten worse, so people understand how much more important it is, is that they filibustered it to death in the Senate, and they couldn't do it this time.
And so the president who hung in there when people were telling him to pack it in, and all the others that were able to work out, they were able to legislate it and compromise and work through to a solution. I'm thrilled. It's a great thing for America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And no question about it, no matter what you think about this health care reform bill this is a huge victory for President Obama.
And we want to bring in our panel to talk about all of this. With me is senior political analyst Gloria Borger, David Gergen, Jeffrey Toobin, and also David Frum, who is, of course, a speechwriter under former President George W. Bush.
Welcome to everybody.
David Gergen, let me start with you.
I know it hasn't been easy, but Barack Obama did manage to get this top domestic priority through Congress in a little more than a year. You have got to give it to him, right?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. It was a dramatic victory, a historic victory. It puts him in -- it's his legacy. It will be forever remembered by historians as the most important piece of social legislation to pass since the 1960s, since Medicare.
It ranks right up there with Social Security and Medicare as transformative of the social landscape. At the same time, it was a bittersweet day, Campbell, because as sweet as it was for Democrats, it was very bitter for opponents.
And in contrast to Social Security, which got 80 percent of approval from the opposition party, from the Republicans, in contrast to Medicare back in the mid-'60s, when half of Republicans voted for it, both of them major bipartisan victories, here, of course, we had zero Republicans voting for it. And now we have opened this new war and this new front of a campaign that's going to go all the way to November.
BROWN: And, too, David Frum, a president who promised to govern sort of in the spirit of bipartisanship, what does this really mean going forward? DAVID FRUM, FORMER SPEECHWRITER FOR FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I think it means that is over. We're going to be entrenched warfare.
We're also going to be into a period of, I hope, some reflection within the Republican Party about whether the Republicans have handled this situation as intelligently as they could have. President Obama did have the votes. He did have a 53 percent popular vote mandate, unlike President Clinton. He was in a much stronger position. The Republicans went for all the marbles, and they came away with none.
BROWN: And how would you have advised them to handle it differently, I guess?
FRUM: I would have advised them to dig in, in the Senate, hold your group together, and then see if -- if the promise of having that political cover of 10 or 12 additional Republican votes would get you something you really wanted, something like no increase in taxes on productive enterprise, something like much less regulation inside these health exchanges.
If those things could have been had, those would have been worth having, because, remember, the exchange is itself a Republican idea. The idea of taxing these high-value plans, those are Republican ideas. The core elements of this plan ought to have been acceptable, if you could delete some of the more redistributionist elements.
It was worth trying. And President Obama looked like he badly wanted it. Senator Baucus looked like he badly wanted it. And we didn't really pursue it.
BROWN: He -- there are a lot of people, Jeff, who still have a lot of the doubts about this, I think, on the whole. And now he's going to go out there, I guess starting, what, Thursday to talk it up on the road. What does very to do to sort of bring the country together, given that Republicans are going to be at war between now and November?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I don't think the country is going to come together. What he has to do is get the coalition that elected him president back together.
He has to persuade independents that the specific benefits, the no- preexisting-condition exclusion, no -- allowing children to stay on your health plan until you're 26 years old -- talk about the specifics of the legislation, because it will be the law. And the idea -- I mean, you know, it seems to me -- David is talking about the Republican Party.
The biggest change in American politics over the past 40 years is the disappearance of the moderate Republicans, whether it's, you know, John Heinz and Lowell Weicker in the Senate, or, you know -- three of the four Nixon appointees to the Supreme Court voted for Roe v. Wade. Those moderate Republicans are gone.
So, the opportunity for compromise is gone.
BROWN: Gloria, go ahead. Jump in here.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I was just going to say, look, the president clearly has a problem here, which is they passed this big-government plan, which is more government involvement in your health care, which is the most personal thing that government can get involved in, one would think, at a time when trust in government is lower than it was even during Watergate.
And our poll at CNN today shows that only one in five people believe that this health care plan is actually going to help them. He's got to get out there and sell this in a way that is so very different from when Medicare and Social Security was passed, as David was talking about.
In those instances, people knew who was going to benefit right away. You would say, OK, I'm over 65 years old. This is going to help me. I know it's going to help me.
Right now, the Democrats and the president have to go out and convince the American people that this is good for them. And Jeffrey's right. There are certain things that are going to happen right away that people are going to like. But a good deal of this is not going to take effect until 2014. And so that's the real challenge for them right now.
BROWN: All right, guys, stand by, because it's more than just partisanship that I think we're talking about here.
When we come back, we're going to pick it up and take a look at the sort of no-holds-barred spitting match that has at times turned this debate into a pretty ugly debacle.
Stand by. We will be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There were downright nasty moments leading up to the health care vote on Capitol Hill. And today leaders of both parties condemned some of the ugliest protests. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of them ugly, racial epithets hurled at Congressman John Lewis and Emanuel Cleaver, who was also spat upon. He points at the spitter: "You spit on me. You spit on me."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the exact phraseology they used?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) They heard it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill the bill and then the N-word several times.
REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: I think there's a great deal of frustration and just outright anger, people being mean to each other.
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Kill the bill! Kill the bill! DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Congressman Barney Frank, who is openly gay, and another slur was hurled at him.
REP. BARNEY FRANK (D-MA), FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Individuals are responsible for themselves, but there are leaders in the Republican Party and elsewhere who kind of egg these people on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those who are shouting out are out of order.
REP. RANDY NEUGEBAUER (R), TEXAS: ... baby killer.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Randy Neugebauer, who represents the 19th District of Texas, has come out and said that he is the one who said this.
We should mention, though, he explains in a statement -- I'm going to read it -- he explains that he was saying, "It's a baby killer," and not calling Stupak a baby killer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And back with me once again, Gloria Borger, David Frum, Jeff Toobin, and David Gergen as well.
David Frum, what do you think when you look at some of the ugliness we saw over the weekend? I mean, obviously, this is the fringe. But they're casting a pretty bad light on your party, aren't they?
DAVID FRUM, EDITOR, FRUMFORUM.COM: Yes. I mean, to the people the racial epithets for sure, that's extremely marginal. I'm not going to generalize that at all. But the mood, if there's been a trend in American politics from the flag burners of the '60s to operation rescue to act up, there's a belief that if you can just show people how angry you are, you'll convince somebody. And maybe there's an exception to the rule but I don't think that ever convinces anybody.
Social movements have that convinced, political movements that have convinced are convinced by being big, by being generous, by looking responsible, by looking concerned for the well-being of others. That's how you make an impression. It's gratifying sometimes. But you have to have control over yourselves.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, Campbell, look back to Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan was a conservative, probably wouldn't like this health care legislation very much, who knows? But he wasn't angry. He could still talk about his conservative values without shouting names at people. He was civil. He had joint meetings of Congress in his office when he was president. And people don't like angry politicians on either side, particularly those independent voters who are sick of them all. So, you know, I don't think this helps the Republican Party at all. And I think Democratic anger back doesn't help either.
BROWN: Let me, before I go to David Gergen and Jeff, I just want to go back to David Frum on this because, you know, you may take that position, David, that, you know, I think you wrote that health care is your party's waterloo. But there are a lot of Republicans who would say, hey look, we need this. It gives us something to run against in November. This is a major, major issue for us. And we do have to be aggressive about it.
FRUM: Be aggressive, fine. And criticize the things that are wrong with the bill, fine. There are going to be a lot of other things to run against, by the way. There's going to be overspending. If President Obama proceeds with his immigration amnesty ideas, that is a powerful issue that Republicans can run against.
But what has happened here is that these -- this anger contracts and constrains the politicians themselves. And a lot of politicians are going to be in very different places from where they want to be. Mitt Romney, for example, is not in the place that he wants to be because he has been denied the freedom to do what he thinks actually makes sense for the country and makes sense for him personally.
BROWN: Jeff -- well, I want to ask you, too because in some states they're taking it even further. I know a number of attorneys general have come forward and said they're going to file lawsuits on behalf of their states. You and I have talked about this before. There's no real merit to many of these cases, right.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Unlikely to be much merit. But I mean, look who's in charge of the Republican Party. Who can you not offend? Who do you have to apologize if you offend?
Rush Limbaugh and the tea party people. They are the ideological centers of the Republican Party now so they are not -- they are setting the tone. And that's why, sure, no one is responsible for a handful of idiots. But how come there was no senior Republican denouncing them at the time? Instead, you had John Boehner on the floor of the House literally screaming in a way that was just bizarre.
BROWN: Well, we had Senator John Thune on earlier in the show who was denouncing him. So I don't want to generalize.
TOOBIN: But, I mean, when it was happening there, they were holding up signs encouraging him.
BROWN: David Gergen, go ahead.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I just have a different take than Jeffrey on this. Look, what happened was deeply offensive in many instances, the spit on John Lewis, the hero of Selma, you know, is hugely offensive to most Americans. And the Republicans, I think Jeffrey is right on one point. The Republican leadership really ought to calm this down and call this off. They do have a responsibility.
But I want to make one other point. One other reason that it's in the Republican self-interest because what we did face early in the Obama presidency was Rush Limbaugh was the face of the Republican Party. But one of the good things that has happened during this health care debate is that we have begun to hear fresh voices from the Republican Party with ideas. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
GERGEN: We've heard Congressman Ryan. We heard Congressman Cantor. You know, you just had John Thune on the air, Campbell. And so listen to someone like David Frum. People who -- the Republicans to the extent that they can now become a party of fresh ideas and fresh thinking, that is what's going to help them get back into office. It's not just repeal. It's replace. What is the replacement? If they can come up with elements of that, they have the makings of a new contract with America. But every time there's somebody spitting or yelling "baby killer" or whatever it is, it detracts from the Republican Party finding its idea base. Ronald Reagan was about more than being civil. He was also about ideas.
BROWN: Right. All right, guys.
BORGER: And you know, the question is -- do you have that for 2010? Or does the anger get the Republicans through 2010 where they pick up a bunch of seats and then have to find their new voice in their new leaders for the next presidential?
BROWN: All right, guys. We have to end it. Many thanks to everybody. Appreciate your time tonight.
We are going to get into the nitty-gritty of the legislation a little bit now that it does appear to be a done deal. We're going to look at actually what's in it for you, how it will affect you, when we come right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The health care overhaul comes after we heard all kinds of promises and threats of what it will actually mean for you. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This reform gives you a chance to be a part of a big purchasing pool that will give you choice and competition and cheaper prices for insurance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lowest prescription drug costs for seniors, expands coverage to 32 million more Americans, reducing the deficit by $143 billion over the next 10 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No longer when we get sick will the insurance companies say, sorry, we can't cover you. No longer if you lose your job or change your job can you not keep your health insurance. You'll be able to keep it.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: In this economy, with this unemployment, with our desperate needs for jobs and economic growth, is this really the time to raise taxes? To create bureaucracies and burden every job creator in our land?
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: So given all that rhetoric, a lot of people are asking now what? And Tom Foreman is here to tell us now what.
Tom, start at the beginning here. Give us some of the high points.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, Campbell. Let's hit the high points, the things that are actually going to affect you.
Right away, all those annual and lifetime limits on coverage will go away. If you get sick, the insurance companies can't drop you. Children with existing health problems like asthma or allergies cannot be denied coverage. That will come later for adults and for kids right now. And all dependent kids can stay on their parents' insurance until they are 26 through college and then some. And that 10 percent tax on indoor tanning heats up right away. It could generate close to $3 billion over the next decade, Campbell. And that's the start of it all.
BROWN: The immediate, I guess, but walk us through sort of what's coming down the line. I think, for example, the big question is, can you really keep your existing plan if you like what you currently have?
FOREMAN: Yes, that's the one trillion dollar question. Democrats have said to most Americans all along, of course you can. But Republicans say not so. PolitiFact checked in to whether it will save money on your premiums through this whole process. They say probably not.
We do know that next year your W-2 statement will show the value of your health benefits along with your wages and you can make of that what you will.
In 2013, it ramps up a little more. Check, please. Those taxes will start for individuals making more than $200,000 and families making more than $250,000 a year, along with some other new taxes on investment income. And in 2014, that's when state insurance exchanges open up. You'll be required to have some sort of coverage at that time or pay a penalty. It's not much at first. But within a few years, that really shoots up, Campbell.
BROWN: So what kind of things can people do to get ready for the changes?
FOREMAN: A simple one, Campbell, right up front. Put on your reading glasses. There are several good Web sites to help you figure out what this will really mean to you and your family. One of my personal favorites is the Kaiser Family Foundation site. Also check out "The New York Times" site. Do your research on what benefits might come your way and what additional taxes you may face so you can plan your budget accordingly.
Also, and this is really big, if you don't already have a primary care physician now, get one because as all these extra folks are brought into the system, many doctors may have to limit their number of new patients. And you don't want to be stuck on the waiting list -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Tom Foreman for us tonight. Tom, thanks very much.
Still ahead, Tiger speaks. The first interview since his shocking down fall, coming up after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tiger talks for the first time. That's coming up. But first, we have more must-see news happening right now. Mike Galanos here with tonight's "Download."
Hi, Mike.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Hey, Campbell. First off, Google has decided to try an end run around government censors in China. Now after threatening to pull out of China over the censorship dispute, Google is shutting down its China-based search engine and redirecting users to the censor-free Hong Kong version. Beijing says Google is breaking a written promise. China's 400 million Internet users make it the largest Internet market in the world.
Well, a potential break in the Natalee Holloway mystery. Police divers in Aruba began searching an area where tourists took an underwater picture that could possibly show Holloway's remains. The Alabama student was 18 when she disappeared back in 2005. This is while on a high school graduation trip to the island. No one has ever been tried in that case.
The woman known as octomom, Nadya Suleman, has gotten an offer that could help keep a roof over her head. Get this. Tmz.com is reporting that porn company Vivid Entertainment is willing to help Suleman avoid foreclosure by paying off the $450,000 she owes. She'll have to do some on camera work, of course. Suleman has until the end of business Tuesday to come up with the money.
And finally this, police in Germany arrested a 28-year-old Lebanese man they say was the mastermind behind the brazen armed raid of a poker tournament earlier this month. He is behind the guy counting the chips there. Plenty of raucous.
A gang of mass thieves stormed the Berlin Hyatt Hotel carrying guns, machetes, all this coming on live television. The stolen money, about $350,000, has not been recovered. Now all of the suspects have been caught.
Quite a scene there. Campbell, back to you.
BROWN: Indeed, it is. Mike Galanos for us tonight. Mike, thanks very much.
GALANOS: Yes.
BROWN: Just ahead, from sports icon to late night punch line. Tiger Woods talks about his disastrous downfall. But with his return to golf now just weeks away, can he put it all behind him? When we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: He says he was living a lie. Tiger Woods faced reporter questions for the very first time since the sex scandal broke. He claimed he tried to stop all the cheating but just couldn't and has taken a hard look at himself. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you were in treatment. The simple question is for what?
TIGER WOODS, GOLFER: That's a private matter as well. But I can tell you what, it's -- it was tough. It was really tough. To look at yourself in a light that you never want to look at yourself, that's pretty brutal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you see?
WOODS: I saw a person that I never thought I would ever become.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So did Tiger help his cause at all here? Christine Brennan is a columnist for "USA Today." Also with us is sports attorney David Cornwell who's president of DNK Cornwell.
Welcome to both of you. Let me ask you both this question and I'll start with Christine. Obviously talking now, sort of trying to preempt getting these kind of questions as he prepares for the Masters coming up in two weeks, Christine?
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, COLUMNIST, "USA TODAY": Oh, absolutely. It's the dribs and drabs approach I guess to PR and to pr and, you know, Tiger can do that. As you know, Campbell, he can do whatever he wants. And these five minute snippets, these two interviews that he, of course, agreed to do with ESPN and the Golf Channel, I think they show that Tiger still is, you know, maybe a little more human and looked a little more real than he did in February during his speech. But I still think you can see the control freak there.
You know, you got five minutes. That's it. You're done. We're going to stand up. I'm going to look you in the eye. It's going to be quick and done. And that's Tiger. That's vintage Tiger. The old Tiger, maybe the new Tiger as well.
BROWN: David, is it a smart approach how he's going about this?
DAVID CORNWELL, SPORTS ATTORNEY: I think it is. He certainly had to get this out of the way and have a media question and answer before he played his first tournament. And now it's behind him. And I do think that it was a good way to go about it. He showed genuine remorse. He was candid about his failings. And I think people, fans that hadn't already moved on now that they've heard from him, those that have heard from him, they're ready to move on as well. BROWN: Let me play for both of you a little bit more of what he had to say. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For a lot of people, the spark of those bad things is November 27th, early that day. What happened?
TIGER WOODS, GOLFER: Well, it's all in the police report. You know, beyond that, everything is between Elin and myself. And that's private.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it's a private matter, why issue a public apology?
WOODS: Well, I owe a lot of people an apology. I hurt a lot of people. Not just my wife, my friends, my colleagues, the public, kids who looked up to me. There were a lot of people that thought I was a different person. And my actions were not according to that. And that's why I had to apologize. I was so sorry for what I've done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Christine, he's not answering the question, I guess, on everybody's mind which is sort of what really happened or as you heard there, what you are getting treated for? Does he owe the public an answer?
BRENNAN: I'm not so sure about if it is sexual addiction or whatever that is that he's being treated for. What I am interested in and I'm sure David is too a little bit from the standpoint of the sports side of things is there was a report in the "New York Times" that he was treated by a doctor who has been linked to performance enhancing drugs. Tiger has denied any involvement there. That's something we definitely, I would love to ask questions about if we have a press conference at the Masters on Tuesday. If Tiger is there, and I certainly hope he is, those are questions I'd like to ask.
The painkillers. Is he still taking them? These are stories and issues that are part of the fabric of our sports culture, Campbell. The idea of an athlete and drugs, whatever that may be. And then I say, you know, some of the questions that he didn't answer, the private issues, I think those are fair game. Some of those, again, to be asked. Lord knows there's going to be a press conference or two. And those questions will be asked again and again.
BROWN: Well, do you think there will be, David? Does very to engage in a press conference at the Masters or can he avoid it?
CORNWELL: I -- he will be probably in a press conference because I think the players do press conferences. But I think he's also signaled that he's not going to go into the details.
If someone were to ask him about performance enhancing drugs, I would advise him to say there's a way to determine whether somebody is using them and that's through the testing process. I've not tested positive. Next question.
I just don't think that Tiger is going to allow himself to kind of be nibbled away in a series of questions following up, following up, and following up things that happened. He's indicated what he was willing to talk about. Clearly, he heard the criticism from his fans, sponsors and people that considered him a role model beyond what was going on with this family.
BROWN: Right.
CORNWELL: And he's addressed that. So I think he's ready to move on. Probably so are the fans.
BROWN: All right. Christine and David, appreciate your time. Thanks, guys.
BRENNAN: Thank you.
CORNWELL: Thank you.
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes with special guest tonight, Michael Moore. But first, to a potential smoking gun in the Toyota investigation. New documents and claims of a cover-up. A CNN special investigation coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The mystery behind Toyota's runaway cars continues. While many suggest faulty electronics are to blame, the automaker today said extensive testing proves that is just not the case. The CNN special investigations unit has obtained what could be a smoking gun in the ongoing investigation. An internal Toyota document that shows the sudden acceleration problem has been around far longer than the company would like to admit and that past repairs had nothing to do with sticky gas pedals. Drew Griffin reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): This is the document, a clear warning sign from August 2002, nearly eight years ago, that Toyota had a sudden acceleration problem and that according to Toyota's own service bulletin, the problem was electronic.
CLARENCE DITLOW, CENTER FOR AUTOMOTIVE SAFETY: If you look at this document, it says electronics. It says the fix is reprogramming the computer. It doesn't say anything about formats.
GRIFFIN: The document is called a technical service bulletin and was given to CNN by a group of attorneys now seeking a nationwide class action lawsuit against Toyota. We brought the document to Clarence Ditlow who heads the nonprofit Center for Auto Safety. Ditlow says the document, not previously made public, is an indication Toyota knew much earlier about an electronic connection to sudden acceleration and he says the service bulletin was parentally hidden from the public, not only by Toyota but by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration known as NHTSA. The service bulletin, those sent to every Toyota dealer and sent to NHTSA was never made public.
DITLOW: The government is really, you know, hiding this information from the consumer. They're in a conspiracy with the auto industry to keep these out of the public sight.
GRIFFIN: NHTSA declined comment on Ditlow's assertions.
(on camera): The lawyers now suing Toyota claim that this Toyota service bulletin is proof that the company knowingly lied to the public blaming its sudden acceleration problems on floor mats or stuck gas pedals.
(voice-over): Tim Howard is a law professor at Northeastern University who also heads the legal group that is saying Toyota hid the real problem for one reason, recalling all affected vehicles could cost billions.
TIM HOWARD, ATTORNEYS TOYOTA ACTION CONSORTIUM: They could fix these problems easily, but it would cost them about $500 a car nationwide. If you have six to seven million cars, you add the numbers, that's close to $4 billion to $5 billion. It's hard to actually tell the truth when those numbers are at the bottom of that truth.
GRIFFIN: Toyota's response to CNN was to discredit the claims being made by the attorneys suing the car company. Toyota strongly disputes these completely baseless allegations being driven by plaintiff's attorneys like Mr. Howard. Toyota said, in a statement to CNN, "Toyota intends to fight against these unfounded claims vigorously." Howard and his legal team will appear in a San Diego courtroom later this week to try to convince a federal judge to combine the 88 individual lawsuits filed against Toyota into one giant class action litigation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Drew Griffin is joining us right now. Drew, when you question Toyota about the allegations, the response seemed to address the lawyers, not their charges.
GRIFFIN: Right.
BROWN: Has the company had any specific response to the document?
GRIFFIN: You know, it's all in the statements, Campbell. We got a second statement acknowledging the service bulletins for the 2002-2003 Camrys. They said that the drivers were feeling a slight delay and then a surge in acceleration. It said the problem fixed through warranty. And the government at the time didn't find any safety issue. But the company to answer your question did not respond, Campbell, when we asked about the cause of that surge which by this document appeared to be electronic.
BROWN: All right. Drew Griffin tonight. Drew, thanks very much.
That's going to do it for us. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
