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Nancy Grace

Casey Cheerful After Caylee Disappeared, Say Witnesses

Aired March 23, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the search for a 2-year- old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, we obtain police files from inside the tot mom murder investigation, and what we learn is a KO, knockout, to the defense. In the days, the hours immediately following the discovery Caylee is gone, volunteers in the Anthony home say tot mom acted like she was, quote, "headed to cheerleading camp," bubbly, happy, never once even mentioning 2-year-old Caylee`s name.

Finally, grandfather George physically sits tot mom down at the table, lays out a map and says, X marks the spot. Translation? Where`s the baby`s body? Grandmother Cindy flies into a screaming, cursing rage and kicks the volunteers there to search for little Caylee out of the house.

And tonight, big credibility problems surface for the woman claiming grandfather George started an affair with her in the days following Caylee`s disappearance. This as the defense insists they will call her as a star witness. Good luck. And those 50-plus letters tot mom secretly sent to two female inmates -- they have been secured. We learned the total, over 250 handwritten pages, to a killer and a dope dealer. Do they obtain a confession? And last, get out your wallet, everybody. The judge rules you and I will pay for tot mom`s multi-million-dollar defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Newly released police documents claim Casey Anthony was asked by her own father to write an X on a map to mark the spot investigators should start searching for Caylee.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I just know that -- I know she`s close. I can feel her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The claim arising out of a police interview with Equusearch chief Tim Miller, who was inside the Anthonys` home.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: ... understand we`re all going in so many different directions. We just want to go in the right one.

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Well, I can`t point you in that direction when I`m literally at a standstill!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.

911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got some very good experts from Texas. Equusearch is here.

CINDY ANTHONY: Everybody is looking for her. Are we going to be able to find her, do you think?

CASEY ANTHONY: I hope we can, Mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Equusearch is a very reputable operation.

CINDY ANTHONY: Do you think after this long, she`d still be local?

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s a possibility.

CINDY ANTHONY: What`s your gut telling you right now?

CASEY ANTHONY: That she`s OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miller claims the whole time he was around Casey Anthony, she was always smiling, laughing and giggling. Miller says Anthony never once said Caylee`s name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she`s involved, I would only hope that she would say something happened and then lead us to the right direction.

CINDY ANTHONY: Your gut tells you that she`s close or some -- she`s - - she`s hiding?

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s not far. I know in my heart she`s not far. I can feel it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And breaking news tonight in the ongoing investigation surrounding music icon Michael Jackson. A judge brings down the hammer on Jackson`s live-in doctor, Conrad Murray, now charged with killing the superstar. Breaking tonight. We learn the live-in doc actually stops CPR on the king of pop and delays calling 911 so he can first hide evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it possible Jackson was in trouble?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s pumping. He`s pumping his chest, but he`s not responding to anything, sir. Please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe even not even breathing anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not breathing, and we need to -- we`re trying to pump him, but he`s not...

911 OPERATOR: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Long before that 911 call was made.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But he`s not responding to CPR or anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bombshell accusations against the doctor at the center of Michael Jackson`s death investigation...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a leaked investigative document. One thing that it says is while Dr. Conrad Murray was performing resuscitation efforts on Jackson, that he paused, and paused in order to collect vials of propofol that were laying around in the room and putting them in a bag and then hiding them in a closet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murray`s attorney rejects entirely the allegations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Propofol is a very serious, very potent sedative. It can make you stop breathing.

911 OPERATOR: He`s not breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he`s not breathing, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Documents allege that Dr. Conrad Murray didn`t tell him to call 911 until all of those vials had been stashed away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the search for 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Bombshell. In the last hours, we obtain police files from inside the tot mom murder investigation. And what we learn is a KO, knockout, to the defense. In the days, the hours immediately following the discovery Caylee is gone, volunteers there in the Anthony home say tot mom acted like she was, quote, "headed to cheerleading camp."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Tim came out here with the understanding that, you know, we believe that Caylee is alive and that we wanted him to assist us in looking for her as a live person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New claims from someone who was inside the Anthony home. Equusearch head Tim Miller tells police in newly released documents that out of all the families he`s tried to help, no family acted quite like the Anthonys.

CINDY ANTHONY: Do you think she could be out of the country or anywhere?

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t want to...

CINDY ANTHONY: I know.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... (INAUDIBLE) go into the same thing that it`s always been.

CINDY ANTHONY: I know.

CASEY ANTHONY: So please stop it!

CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days, in the back of the car, full of maggots. It stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.

GEORGE ANTHONY: The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s (SIC) car is not my granddaughter! So why don`t you guys get your facts straight?

CINDY ANTHONY: She`s not dead. No one`s found her yet.

There are certain things that the family can`t say. There are certain things that we do know. There are certain things that Casey knows that she can`t tell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miller says he sat down at a table with George and Casey Anthony. It was then George asked the tot mom to mark a spot on the map where Miller should start searching. But then Cindy Anthony got really angry, according to Tim Miller. Miller then says Casey Anthony got up from the table and went back to her room.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve already told you, Mom! I`ve told you everything!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The X on the map never drawn.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich, reporter with CNN affiliate WFTV. Kathi, what can you tell me?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, Tim Miller said he had never had a family act like this before. He said that defense attorney Jose...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait! Back it up, Kathi. Tim Miller is the founder of Texas Equusearch. He himself is a crime victim. His daughter was murdered. And since then, he has devoted himself to finding missing people, including Caylee.

OK. Kathi, I`m on the edge of my seat. Tell me.

BELICH: He said he had never had a family act like this before. He said that defense attorney Jose Baez introduced himself, thanked him for helping, but said he couldn`t talk to Casey. And Miller was confused about that because Casey was the last person to see Caylee alive, and that`s usually who they would talk to.

He said that the family acted very strangely, there was very bizarre behavior going on there, and he knew this wasn`t the typical situation he had gotten involved in before.

GRACE: You know, Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story, Tim Miller has had a million chances on air to say all this, but out of respect for the family, he`s never breathed a word of it. What else do we learn from Tim Miller, who goes down there at his own expense and what money he can raise from volunteers and donations, to try to find Caylee? What else do we learn out of these police files?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Tim Miller describes -- and some of his fellow Equusearch volunteers also talk about this to the police. Apparently, after about four days of spending time with the Anthony family, spending time in the home, spending time with Casey Anthony, Tim Miller says that he finally broke it to George and Cindy that they were going to have to start doing a ground search. In other words -- and he doesn`t come right out and say this to them, but -- we`re going to have to consider the possibility that she`s dead...

GRACE: OK. So bottom line, we don`t think we`re looking for a live Caylee, we`re looking for a body now.

JOSTAD: Exactly.

GRACE: So he tells George Anthony that. What happens?

JOSTAD: Right. So apparently, he says that Cindy Anthony`s attitude totally changed at that point. But George went in, talked to Casey, got her to come out, sit down at the table with all of them...

GRACE: Wait. Come out of where? Come out of where?

JOSTAD: Come out of her bedroom, which is apparently where she spent most of her time, according to Tim Miller. So he gets her to come out. They all sit down at a table. Tim Miller has a map. George says, Casey, mark an X. Mark an X on this map where they should start looking. And apparently, she was about to do it, but Cindy Anthony got very angry with everybody, told them to get out of her house. Casey went back to her bedroom. She never marked the map.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Whoa! You`re putting a little sugar on the pill, aren`t you, Ellie, because what they said -- the volunteers with Texas Equusearch said that Cindy Anthony goes into a screaming, cursing fit and tells them, the volunteers to try to find the baby, to get the "F" out of her house.

JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right. A couple of Tim Miller`s colleagues said that she said either, Get the "H" out of the house, or, Get the "F" out of the house. Tim Miller put it a little more delicately. He said that it just was not a nice way to that she told them to leave.

GRACE: So they`d been there for four days. What exactly, Ellie -- we`ve all reviewed the police files. What exactly do Miller and then the other volunteers in the home say about tot mom`s demeanor? This is in the days, the hours after it`s discovered Caylee`s gone, the baby`s gone.

JOSTAD: Well, Tim Miller says that Casey Anthony was walking around with a smile on her face the whole time, asking if they needed anything to eat. She even volunteered to make them meatloaf. But he says he never once heard her say, Help me find my daughter. He never once even heard Casey Anthony say her daughter`s name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: My one goal is, regardless of how it happened...

(INAUDIBLE) I don`t care. I will lie, I will steal, I will do whatever I can to find my daughter. I put that in my statement, and I mean that with all my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: The media`s going to have a frickin` field day with this!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The charges against you are first-degree murder...

CASEY ANTHONY: I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... aggravated child abuse...

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m sorry for what I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... aggravated manslaughter...

CINDY ANTHONY: I still believe my daughter.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I believe in my daughter.

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: I believe everything that my sister tells me.

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s the most important thing in this entire world to me!

I just want my baby back.

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter from day one has gotten -- you know, she has been a victim just as much as Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY: They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee was almost 3 when she died.

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... with duct tape over her nose and her mouth.

CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... first one piece...

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... then two, then three...

GEORGE ANTHONY: There was an overpowering smell. I`ll admit that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... so that no breath was possible.

CASEY ANTHONY: My entire life has been taken from me!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Try to pin it on Zanny the nanny.

CASEY ANTHONY: Everything has been taken from me!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She tries to pin it on people who don`t even exist.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this!

CINDY ANTHONY: What she told me and what I found out was two different things.

CASEY ANTHONY: You`re not helping me help myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone who contends that no juror could find that these conclusions call for a sentence of death is only fooling themself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Bombshell. Knockout for the defense. Tonight, we go inside police investigative files and learn exactly tot mom`s demeanor, her words, her actions in the hours inside the Anthony home after it was discovered, after it was revealed Caylee was gone.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Brenda, West Virginia. Hi, Brenda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Thank you for calling. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment and a quick question, OK?

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I need is -- I have, like, a theory when Caylee first came up missing, and it just won`t get out of my head. I think that she had Caylee in the trunk of that car when her car was missing, as if it was -- so she would presume to be kidnapped. And when her car was missing and Caylee supposedly was in that car, then, you know, she was supposed to be found and then it would -- may look like a kidnapping and -- but she never was found. Neither was the car, until later on. And I think that somebody just took the body out and...

GRACE: OK. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Brenda, so your theory is -- let me get this straight -- that tot mom puts her own 2-year-old daughter in the car trunk to make it look like a kidnap. The car is not found. And then somebody else comes along, an unknown person, and takes the body out of the trunk and buries it or hides it 15 houses from the Anthony home? That`s your theory?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just think that -- you know, that she...

GRACE: No, is that your theory?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes, I...

GRACE: OK. So somebody comes along, they find a dead body...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, somebody (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: ... and instead of running away from the car or calling 911, they decide to take the dead body and go hide it next to Cindy Anthony`s house?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know. I don`t know whether it was...

GRACE: No, no. No, no. That`s your theory. I`m asking you do I have it right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

GRACE: OK. Let`s unleash the lawyers on that one. With us tonight, famed attorney out of the LA area, victims` rights advocate Gloria Allred, veteran defense attorney, Atlanta, Raymond Giudice, and Lauren Lake, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney out of New York. Welcome.

Gloria, you know...

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes.

GRACE: I`m going to let you kindly address that theory. Go ahead.

ALLRED: Well, I mean, all the evidence is pointing to Casey at this point, and it`s going to be interesting to see what her defense is. Let`s talk about Tim Miller for a second, Nancy. I know Tim Miller, and he`s a very sweet, unassuming guy who`s got good motives, is out there searching for missing children. The idea that she would be there for four days, never mention her daughter`s name and not help in any way and in every way to try to find her daughter is not going to go over well for a jury, if it gets to a jury.

GRACE: Yes, I notice neither one of you two defense attorneys look very happy right now. Lauren Lake, you look pretty glum. Go ahead, turn on that smile because you know this evidence is a knockout for the defense. She didn`t even say her daughter`s name in four days. Go ahead. Explain it away, defense attorney!

LAUREN LAKE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you said at the top of the hour that her attorney had spoken to Tim, said, Don`t talk to Casey. Don`t you think he also told Casey, Don`t talk to anyone? That`s what defense attorneys do. She...

GRACE: What about it, Ray?

LAKE: ... may have just been following advice of counsel.

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s the best way to play it, and that`s the only way to play it. It`s damaging evidence.

GRACE: Well, you know, what you said is so true. You`ve got to think of a way to play it, to spin it, because you know what? It`s awful.

GIUDICE: It`s awful. And this is a death penalty case, and part of the defense lawyer`s job is he has to win the case but also to keep her off of death row. And sometimes, that`s the best you can do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All rise.

CASEY ANTHONY: I just wanted to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did and I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony is indigent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... indigent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Defendant (INAUDIBLE) declared indigent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY: Do not form any judgments...

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m frustrated and I`m angry!

GEORGE ANTHONY: ... because I`ll tell you, you don`t want to be in any of our family`s shoes.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak!

GEORGE ANTHONY: You`re the boss, you know? You do what you need to do.

CASEY ANTHONY: I have to keep my mouth shut about how I feel.

CINDY ANTHONY: It doesn`t make sense.

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s going to blow over.

CINDY ANTHONY: If you`d have told them the truth and not lied about everything...

CASEY ANTHONY: Come on!

GEORGE ANTHONY: You know, I`ve got to believe her that she knows everything is OK.

CASEY ANTHONY: I have nothing to say.

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have some mistruths out there, or half truths, but she is not a murderer.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I know what I`m honestly up against. Do you guys understand what I`m honestly up against?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live tonight. We obtain just released information out of the police files. They go inside the Anthony home in the hours, the days after it`s first learned that little Caylee is gone.

We also learn tonight that there are big problems for the defense`s star witness that they put on their defense witness list. That would be Ms. River Cruz, who claims grandfather George Anthony had an affair with her, and during pillow talk stated that tot mom was responsible for the baby`s death and it was all an accident that snowballed out of control.

OK. To you, Natisha Lance. Credibility problems right now emerge for River Cruz. What is it?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the credibility problems is now that -- now River Cruz is coming forward and saying the only evidence that she has of this affair with George Anthony is the photo that we have seen on our show, and also the statements that she has given to police.

GRACE: Let`s see that photo, Elizabeth. So Ellie Jostad, just as you and I were talking about the other night -- and yes, we could be wrong -- the only photo she`s got to prove the affair is of her and grandfather George at a vigil event for Caylee? That`s it? There`s no bedroom poses, George in his underwear, nothing?

JOSTAD: Well, we don`t know if that`s the absolute only picture, but there`s a report coming out of Orlando that all of her pictures are like the one we`ve seen. They don`t prove an affair. They just prove she knew him.

GRACE: And the defense says this is their big witness?

JOSTAD: Well, we`ll have to wait and see about that, Nancy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The bombshell and most damning evidence in the autopsy report is that Caylee Anthony`s killer -- allegedly her mother Casey -- put several overlapping layers of duct tape over her mouth and jaw.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: All you have is speculation.

ROY KRONK, DISCOVERED CAYLEE`S REMAINS: Human skull dropped out with hair around it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have more than speculation.

KRONK: And duct tape across the mouth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: One thing I know is she loves that child.

CASEY ANTHONY: I can only do so much from where I`m at. And I want to do so much more, but I can`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the killer looked into her face --

CASEY ANTHONY: Casey Marie Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- could her killer see the fear in her eyes as the tape was applied?

CASEY ANTHONY: I just want her to come home. I just want my baby back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she tried to resist.

CASEY ANTHONY: As a parent you know certain things about your child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could Caylee have understood what was happening to her?

CINDY ANTHONY: You`re not telling me where she`s at.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she tried to resist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The duct tape was placed there to, in fact, stop breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The face that Caylee Anthony saw in those final moments of her life was her mother`s face.

CASEY ANTHONY: I feel guilty about that. I feel extremely guilty. But I was under a time of desperation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls. Out to Arlene in Canada. Hi, Arlene.

ARLENE, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Thank you for calling.

ARLENE: I just wanted to tell you how beautiful those babies are, too. They are absolutely gorgeous. And I hope --

GRACE: Wait, wait. Just wait until I show you the photos that I got -- I found out about it at the last minute -- where they could take photos with a live bunny.

ARLENE: Oh!

GRACE: I`m going to show them later on this week. I just got them. And it`s really something. Anyway, thank you.

ARLENE: I would like to know, what is the probability of this evidence regarding the map, the X, and the fracas that ensued? What are the chances of that actually getting to court?

GRACE: OK. Hold on. Oh, I understand what you said. The map and the X. Oh, I think it`s very likely it will come in to court.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Gloria Allred, L.A. -- you all know Gloria. Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta. And Lauren Lake, defense attorney out of New York.

First of all, Raymond Giudice, she was not under arrest. She had not been a person of interest. She was not in police custody.

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right.

GRACE: So the police were not interrogating her. The Constitution only protects you when you`re a suspect, a formal suspect, and you`re in custody and you`re being questioned.

GIUDICE: Or by --

GRACE: That -- yes.

GIUDICE: Or questioned by an agent of the state.

GRACE: Exactly.

GIUDICE: It doesn`t always have to be law enforcement. I agree with you. I think the evidence will come in.

The real tactical issue is does the state even want to bother with this in their case in chief?

GRACE: Put him up. Put him up! Are you kidding me?

GIUDICE: Yes -- wait, wait, wait. Or would you rather just use it for cross and impeachment? Because one of the things I talked about last week, every week we continue to see the absolute --

GRACE: Cross and impeachment of who?

GIUDICE: Of George. That is the defense`s best witness. And every week goes by he loses more and more credibility. He was -- if I was the defense, I would be using George to keep my girl out of the death penalty.

GRACE: Well, you know what? I understand that you`re plotting and planning strategy.

I had a different strategy when I was a prosecutor for all those years, Gloria Allred, and that was give it all to the jury, give it to them fast, straight up, don`t hold it back, don`t play any games, and let the chips fall where they may.

What do you think, Gloria?

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY & VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, exactly. And juries believe in an honest approach. And they appreciate an honest approach from all the lawyers in the case. And they know when a lawyer is not being honest, when a lawyer`s being deceptive. And they get it.

So I`d say put it all out there. And also, the defense is going to try to turn Tim Miller into a bad guy, and the search is going to be used by the defense to try to undermine the prosecution`s case. But they`re going to have a mixed bag with that, and this is going to come in.

LAUREN LAKE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But Nancy --

GRACE: It absolutely will. Lauren Lake, the thing about Ray`s approach versus Gloria and my approach is to how to get this in, the way tot mom acted in the days immediately following her disappearance.

You could have both. You could bring it on in your direct case for the state through these volunteers, through Tim Miller. And if and when George Anthony takes the stand --

(CROSSTALK)

LAKE: But it`s all about strategy. It`s all about strategy. And there`s a difference between deception and then diligence. We are supposed to defend our client under the letter of the law vigorously. And if that means we have to strategize to make sure her rights are protected and ultimately justice is served, that`s what defense attorneys have to do.

GRACE: Somebody give me some coffee to keep me awake.

(CROSSTALK)

LAKE: But, Nancy, at the end of the day that`s good for the prosecution because if the trial goes down right then we don`t have a mistrial.

GRACE: Hold on. Sshh. Lauren.

LAKE: Yes.

GRACE: The caller, Arlene in Canada, just asked would the evidence come in? Giudice says yes, but I`d use it to impeach --

LAKE: Exactly my point.

GRACE: Gloria Allred says put it up in your case in chief. And you go off spouting the Constitution. Can you just give a yes or no? Can you do that?

LAKE: Now, have I ever done that, Nancy?

GRACE: No. You`re right.

LAKE: I have to tell you, that`s all about defense strategy.

GRACE: I heard it. I heard it. Got it. Out to Angie in Virginia. Hi, Angie.

ANGIE, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

ANGIE: I was wondering, Nancy. Do you think that jailhouse video of Casey`s reactions to the finding of Caylee`s remains is going to come into evidence?

GRACE: I do. There`s only one problem.

Back to you, Ellie Jostad. When she found -- let me get this straight. When it came on the air, on the news that Caylee`s remains had been found, we were all working that day. Remember?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right.

GRACE: Her lawyer came in and took her off somewhere else. That`s not going to come in whatever happened with her lawyer. But what happened in that holding area, that general area where the television was, there were sheriffs standing around.

We`ve never seen that video, have we?

JOSTAD: No, we`ve never seen that video. Although we did get some of the statements from the jailers, who said they saw things like she was claiming that she couldn`t breathe. She said she felt like her restraints were getting tighter. She turned very red in the face. She had bumps on her hands. That kind of thing.

GRACE: And everybody, back to this woman, River Cruz, that claims she had an affair with George Anthony -- grandfather George -- that he let it slip during pillow talk that Caylee`s death was an accident at tot mom`s hands that snowballed out of control.

River Cruz is on the witness list, plaintiff`s witness list, in the civil case, which means if that case goes forward someone is going to have the opportunity, the golden opportunity, to cross-examine this woman as to her credibility.

I want to go to bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California who first bailed tot mom out from behind bars and was in and out of that house in those hours and days when she first came out from behind bars.

Leonard Padilla, you`ve heard this story about George Anthony sitting her down and saying mark the map with an X. Where do we start looking, in other words, for the body?

And Cindy Anthony, the grandmother, goes berserk, gets angry, throws them out of the house, and tot mom gets up and stomps back to her room and shuts the door like a teenager. Does that sound --

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Didn`t happen.

GRACE: -- true to you?

PADILLA: Didn`t happen. Didn`t happen. George never went to the room and brought her out and asked her to mark an X. Cindy didn`t go berserk and run off --

GRACE: This is before you`re on the scene, Leonard. This is before you are there. This is before --

PADILLA: No, it ain`t.

GRACE: Yes, it is.

PADILLA: No, it`s not.

GRACE: OK. Let`s clarify. When was it, Ellie?

PADILLA: Nope. We were there. We bailed her out on the 21st.

JOSTAD: Right.

PADILLA: We were there the Sunday before. And we were there until after the 29th. It never happened.

JOSTAD: Yes, and actually, Tim Miller --

(CROSSTALK)

JOSTAD: -- talks about Leonard`s people being there at the same time.

GRACE: What, Ellie?

JOSTAD: Actually Tim Miller does mention that some of Leonard`s people including Tracy McLaughlin were there at the same time.

GRACE: And you`re saying, Leonard, that it could not have happened?

PADILLA: I`m not saying it couldn`t have. It didn`t.

GRACE: So you don`t think there was ever a time that Miller was there that your people were not there?

PADILLA: Absolutely not.

GRACE: What about it, Ellie?

JOSTAD: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear that question, Nancy.

GRACE: Was there never a time that Tim Miller was there that the other -- that Padilla`s people were not there?

JOSTAD: Yes, and I don`t know that. It`s not -- the cops did not specifically ask Tim Miller that.

GRACE: Right.

JOSTAD: They didn`t say were Leonard`s people there at the same time.

GRACE: Back to Kathi Belich with WFTV joining us tonight.

Kathi, what more can you tell me?

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV, COVERING STORY: Well, actually, about that topic, I think I remember reading that Tracy could have been in Casey`s bedroom and I think somebody -- maybe Tim Miller -- said that it`s possible she might have heard something.

So that`s all I remember about that. But also in this new evidence today we saw that a computer expert told the sheriff`s office that the searches that were found on Casey`s computer about how to make chloroform and neck breaking and that sort of thing, it was an unusually large file that appeared to have been deleted very close to the time that investigators seized that computer.

And also two websites that figured prominently in those searches was one called Howtogetridofstuff.com and another was Druglibrary.com.

GRACE: To Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach County chief medical examiner, we learned the prosecution has many, many water tests and records. What`s the significance?

DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH CO. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, the -- maybe trying to establish how long the body has been under water, how long the water`s been there, and when it might have been exposed to the air and insects.

GRACE: And the level of decomposition, would it surprise you if you learned that the body had been submerged for a long period of time?

BELL: No. Down -- in Florida with the heat, bodies are not likely to stay well preserved for a very long period of time whether they`re submerged or not.

GRACE: And how much do you think that flooding in that area affected the decomposition of her body?

BELL: I really don`t think it affected it very much at all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news out of the Michael Jackson investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Did anybody witness what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Just the doctor, sir. The doctor`s the only one here.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Published reports suggest that Dr. Conrad Murray stopped performing CPR, resuscitation, on the star so he could pick up drug vials scattered in the room.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The doctor comes down the stairs of the stairwell that leads into the kitchen, and he`s screaming, "Hurry, go get Prince. Call security. Get Prince."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did it seem like he was in a panicked state?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Paris, she starts screaming, "Daddy, daddy, daddy."

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Captain Steve Ruda from the L.A. Fire Department, he told me that Jackson was not breathing and had no pulse when paramedics arrived at the scene at his rented mansion. He said he was in, quote, "dire need of help."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s pumping. He`s pumping his chest, but he`s not responding to anything, sir. Please.

CASAREZ: I`m told that Dr. Conrad Murray took responsibility at the scene, this fire captain told me. He was in charge. He was calling the shots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t take a doctor and stick him in the room there and the doctor give him something to make him rest and then he don`t wake up no more. Something is wrong there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Is it true? Out to you, Alexis Tereszcuk with Radaronline.com -- standing by at the Jackson compound -- that Conrad Murray, the so-called doctor, quit CPR, delayed the 911 call so he could hide evidence and clean up the room?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: It is. It is in the police report that apparently the man who was the logistics director for Michael Jackson, Alberto Alvarez, came in the room. He saw Dr. Murray performing CPR with just one arm, and then he stopped.

He stopped performing CPR on the singer as he was dying and he asked Alberto Alvarez to take some vials and put them in a bag, and then he gave him an IV that was filled with a milky substance, which a lot of people are saying that may have been the propofol, and he hid them away. And then --

GRACE: With us tonight -- go ahead.

TERESZCUK: I was going to say, then he continued on the CPR. But he even delayed calling 911. So it was this really long time when Michael Jackson was dying and he wasn`t performing medical -- resuscitation on him.

GRACE: With us, Alexis Tereszcuk, there at the Jackson compound. Also with us, special guest, Dr. Panchali Dhar, board-certified anesthesiologist and author of "Before the Scalpel."

What should he have been doing, Doctor?

DR. PANCHALI DHAR, MD, BOARD CERTIFIED ANESTHESIOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "BEFORE THE SCALPEL": Well, Nancy, CPR should not be interrupted at any point. I have here what`s called a basic CPR teaching mannequin.

The way it`s done is basically you clasp your hands like this. You put the base of your hand down on the bottom of the chest and the -- over the ribs, and you press hard and you press fast, uninterrupted, high- quality chest compressions. The purpose of that --

GRACE: Wait. Keep doing it, Dr. Dhar. I want to see what you`re doing.

DHAR: OK. You lock your elbows over the breast bone, the bottom part --

GRACE: Wait, Bret. Show me her elbows. Let me see what she`s doing.

DHAR: You lock your elbows. And you press over -- the bottom of the breast bone. And you press hard down 1 1/2 to 2 inches. You should never stop.

GRACE: You`re not really doing it that hard, Doctor.

DHAR: Well, I`m going to do it harder but you know --

GRACE: Show me how you`d really do it.

DHAR: OK. You`d be banging down really hard like this. And then the purpose of that is to get blood pumped out of the heart into the brain. And then some of the blood is pumped into the lungs, where there`s some contact with oxygen.

It is no longer mandatory to do mouth to mouth. You have to do 100 compressions per minute, or you can do 30 compressions and give two breaths. Whatever it is you want. That`s recommended by the American Heart Association right now.

So uninterrupted high-quality chest compressions --

GRACE: Now, hold on, Doctor, just one more minute. Remember, let me remind you, I`m a JD, not an MD. When you say high-quality chest compressions --

DHAR: You press hard.

GRACE: Wait, wait. Bret, take her in full. Show me, show the viewers what that doctor should have been doing instead of hiding evidence.

DHAR: Just like this. Non-stop.

GRACE: That`s not really that hard.

DHAR: Well --

GRACE: OK. Yes.

DHAR: It`s about 1 1/2 to 2 inches. That`s what you have to do.

GRACE: OK. Yes. Now I`m getting a good look at it. I see.

DHAR: OK. 1 1/2 to 2 inches down over the breast bone.

GRACE: OK. Over the breast bone. Show me on you. Show me on your body, where are we supposed to be doing that?

DHAR: Right about here.

GRACE: Right about -- got you. Right in the middle of your chest. Got it.

DHAR: OK.

GRACE: And for any reason, Dr. Dhar -- Dr. Panchali Dhar, joining us out of New York -- is there any reason you should stop the compressions?

DHAR: No. It is the rule not to stop. You go into the ambulance, you continue CPR.

GRACE: Got it.

DHAR: You wind up in the emergency room, you`re still doing CPR. That`s when 20 other people start beginning to help you. Let me just say that CPR outside the hospital is very different than CPR in the hospital because in the hospital you have 20 people ganging up on you, helping you out.

When you`re outside, it`s only Conrad Murray.

GRACE: Got it.

DHAR: Now, Conrad Murray is doing one-handed CPR, which he could use -- might as well bump a feather on his chest at that point.

GRACE: To Brian Oxman, attorney for Joe Jackson. Oxman, are you filing a wrongful death claim?

BRIAN OXMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOE JACKSON: Yes, indeed, Nancy. We most certainly are. And when we hear things like this, Nancy, it is not only heart-breaking, it is enraging and, Nancy, I smell a rat here because we have these kinds of disclosures where we have just terrible conduct involved.

GRACE: Brian Oxman announcing he is filing a wrongful death lawsuit on Joe Jackson`s behalf.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Michael Jackson`s doctor is accused of stopping CPR so he could hide drug vials in the late singer`s bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And he`s charged, remember, with involuntary manslaughter and he said that nothing he gave Jackson could have killed him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Bill Golodner, former NYPD, president of Kindershield agency joining us out of New York.

Bill, what do you make of trying to sanitize the crime scene as it`s claimed Conrad Murray did?

BILL GOLODNER, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, PRESIDENT OF KINDERSHIELD AGENCY: Hi. Thanks, Nancy. First of all, he may have had no choice because propofol, a drug that`s predominantly used either in hospital or in the doctor`s office.

GRACE: Wait, put Golodner up. Did you just say he had no choice? He could either, A --

GOLODNER: No, when I say --

GRACE: Try to save a guy by doing CPR, or B, clean up a crime scene? Hmm. That`s a toughie.

GOLODNER: When I say --

GRACE: Did you just say that?

GOLODNER: When I say he had no choice, Nancy, is this guy was guilty. He was guilty of having a drug use in the residence that`s never, ever used in a residence. On top of that, he wasn`t tending to the patient.

This guy is looking at a long time in jail, Nancy. And based on that, that`s why he was trying to hide evidence and to sanitize the area the best that he could.

GRACE: You know what, Golodner? You`re right. And back to you, Oxman. Brian Oxman, attorney for Joe Jackson.

This is sickening. If this is true, I mean, I`ve seen my father in the throws of a heart attack. I`ve seen my mother giving him CPR, saving his life. And to think that he would break away from Michael Jackson to try to clean up the scene.

OXMAN: It`s disgusting, Nancy. It is absolutely disgusting. I mean, this man who was this -- a doctor has changed his stories more times than a snake changes its skin.

GRACE: Right.

OXMAN: And we have to go along and listen to this dribble. Nancy.

GRACE: You`re right.

OXMAN: This is disgusting.

GRACE: To you, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, New York. Dr. Leslie, weigh in.

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it doesn`t bother me that Alvarez changed his statement two months later. I`m sure he was terrified at the beginning of being involved in a crime and hiding things. And I think he told the truth later on. So it makes sense to me that he changed his statement.

GRACE: Dr. Leslie, I just don`t see I could break away from CPR to try to clean the crime scene.

AUSTIN: Of course not. It`s horrendous to even think that he would do that. I think, unfortunately, he was after the money that Jackson was paying him, and he`s -- he was giving him anything Jackson asked for to satisfy him. But it wasn`t good medical care at all.

GRACE: Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, New York, right on the money as usual.

Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Frank Sandoval, 27, Yuma, Arizona, killed Iraq. On a second tour, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Lost his life, his family by his side after a battle recovering from a head injury.

Organ donor, saved the lives of seven others. Loved Superman comics, named after his grandfather, a decorated Korean War vet. Leaves behind parents Ricky and B, three siblings, widow Michelle, daughter Jolina.

Frank Sandoval, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you, and a special good night from Georgia and Florida friends, Charles, Nancy and Tiny. Charles waging a war against cancer. God bless you. And thank you for being with us.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END