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Campbell Brown
Death Threats Against Members of Congress; Obama Meets With Netanyahu
Aired March 24, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody. Our top story tonight is the rage at Congress. Attacks against members of Congress who voted for health care reform. We're talking about death threats, vandalism, pretty serious stuff. And that's where we're starting. Tonight's mash-up as always for watching also, you don't have to. Just one day after celebrating their biggest legislative victory in decades, democratic lawmakers are sounding now a very different note, alarm. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you feel that your members are really at risk in terms of their security?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yes. I think we've had very serious incidences that have occurred.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A significant number of democrats, he said, at least ten, have received threats in one way or another.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN VOICE MAIL: You will rue the day you did this, Mr. Stupak.
DOUGHERTY: Death threats from pro-life callers started pouring into the office of Michigan's Bart Stupak, as soon as the anti abortion rights democrat announced he would vote yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN VOICE MAIL: I hope you die.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Shattered glass in the offices of Arizona Gabrielle Giffords.
Democrats accused republicans of stirring a hostile political mood. And connect that to tactics used by republicans to slow things down in the senate today.
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: The process that got us here and been ugly.
DOUGHERTY: Republicans offered dozens of amendments trying to derail a final package of fixes to the health care reform law and accused democrats of ignoring the public.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: The arrogance is palpable. Palpable and inexcusable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We're going to have much more on this developing story a little bit later tonight. President Obama today signed the executive order on abortion that bought him enough votes to pass health care reform, but unlike yesterday's extravaganza, this signing ceremony very low key and closed to reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It restates federal policy that there cannot be federal funding for abortion. The significant about this, number one, is at the briefing today, Robert Gibbs was basically saying that the president doesn't believe this was really necessary. He doesn't believe this changes any kind of policy, because he does not believe the original health care bill funded, you know, would provide for federal funding of abortions. So, some colleagues were pressing him, what's the point of this.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's an executive order. So, this is, I mean, it's not a frivolous thing. The president did not in health care reform believe we did change the status quo. And believes that this reiterates that it's not changed.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Anti abortion rights democrats whose votes were crucial to passing the bill attended but no press coverage was allowed, only a photo taken by the White House.
Members of Congress who oppose abortion demanded that order before they would vote for health care reform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: As we told you earlier tonight, some of those lawmakers are facing death threats now.
The White House tight lipped tonight about President Obama's closed door meetings with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. But it is clear relations between the two countries still at this moment very tense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: White house again insisting that this is still a key ally, but they decided to have these talks behind closed doors and not in front of the cameras.
GIBBS: Not everything the president does is for the cameras and for the press. There are areas that they discussed last night, some of which they agree and some of which they disagree. As I've said, those talks are ongoing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This afternoon, Middle East negotiator George Mitchell and Dennis Ross pick up where the president left off.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: It was not a good day for Israel in terms of the language and the attacks inside the council chamber.
BAN KI-MOON, UN SECRETARY GENERAL: Yesterday's announcement that the final approval has been given to build 20 settlement units in Sheikh Jarrah is unacceptable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: We are going to go live to the White House for more on this story coming up this as well.
In Saudi Arabia tonight, more than 100 militants are behind bars. They were arrested today on suspicion of plotting terrorist attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: More than 100 suspects are accused of plotting attacks on police and oil installations in the Saudi kingdom. Most of the suspects are Saudi and Yemeni but a handful of others have in Somalia, Bangladesh and Air threat.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: They captured with them a lot of weapons, a lot of ammunition, video recording equipment, computers, communications equipment, and they also say that they captured another two cells, two six man cells. And they say that these two six man cells were preparing a suicide attack, preparing separate suicide attacks on Saudi oil facilities. They were going to pack vehicles full of explosives.
FRANCES TOWNSEND, FORMER BUSH HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: Interestingly of the 101 arrested more are actually Yemenis then Saudis.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: They live in Saudi Arabia?
TOWNSEND: No, they cross the boarder, the Saudi have made clear that these individuals were launched from Yemen into Saudi Arabia where they were going to plan these attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Security officials believe some of the militants arrested are linked to Al-Qaeda.
Bill Clinton and George W. Bush are in Haiti on a humanitarian mission together. The two ex-presidents have raised more than $37 million to help in the earthquake relief effort. For all their good work, this may be the moment from their trip that is getting attention on line, going barrel. It is tape of the pair shaking hands with a group of Haitians. And let's see if you notice anything here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN (trough a translator): And that's one of the reasons that -- one of the things we've done is to provide more money.
(END VIDEO CLIP) All right. Well, anyway, we do not apparently have the tape. There is a moment that you're going to have to go to the blog to check out. Because, only the tape will do it justice. We'll try to bring you that later in the show. That brings us right now to the punch line. This is courtesy of Jimmy Fallon. He was feeling the love at yesterday's health care fest at the White House. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, "LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON," HOST: After signing the bill, Obama hugged Nancy Pelosi twice. He called her one of the best speakers of the House he's ever had. And then, he called Harry Reid won the best majority leaders in the Senate he ever had. Obama is either really excited about health care or totally wasted. I love you. Serious, you're the best.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Jimmy Fallon, everybody. And that is the mash-up. Tonight's top story, the health care battle takes an ominous turn. Some house members are fearing for their safety. You're going to see and hear examples of what they're dealing because of how they voted when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, the ugly health care fight has grown dangerous it appears. At least ten Democratic House members who voted for the bill are now reporting death threats and other harassment and are getting extra security. A brick was reportedly thrown through the office window of one congresswoman and a picture of the news was faxed to Representative Jim Clyburn who is African American. Another news drawing, this one sent to the office of Congressman Bart Stupak who switches to a yes vote at the very last minute. His office also getting some nasty voice mails. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN VOICE MAIL: Congressman Stupak, you are one big piece of human (bleep ). And think about this, there are millions of people across the country who wishes you ill.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN VOICE MAIL: Stupak, you baby murder, (INAUDIBLE) that's what you are. You and your family are scum. You jump into the Potomac.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And with me right now to talk about all this, "Time Magazine" Senior Political Analyst Mark Halperin and CNN Senior Political Analyst Gloria Borger. Guys, Gloria, you start, what's going on here?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think, you know, we've been talking about the polarization of our politics for the last year basically since Barack Obama became president. And now what you're seeing is very controversial bill that gets passed, a lot of anger out there. And you're seeing a lack, to my way of looking at it, of leadership of our elected officials to get together, republican and democrat and tell the people who follow them enough is enough. This is not the way we want to behave. And this is not the way you should behave. But when you have somebody on the House floor yelling baby killer when the health care bill gets passed Sunday night, what kind of example is that? You know, you can't go and talk to your constituents and say, behave when you're not behaving.
BROWN: Is it -- has the inflammatory rhetoric sort of gotten to the point where it is crossing a line?
MARK HALPERIN, TIME MAGAZINE: Well, I think anyone, and the three of us are privileged to be in this group who has access to communicate with the public in a broad way needs to denounce these things. And the strongest possible for instance is no place in American life. And as I think Gloria was suggesting, we need everybody in the country who's got the mega phone including republicans who were still trying to rebut their supporters in for frenzy, to denounce these things and go back to debating the subject. The arguments...
BROWN: So, are the republicans doing that enough? Because you have Boehner came out today denouncing? Do you think they're doing it loudly enough or strongly enough?
HALPERIN: Well, they're not doing it enough. They should -- the president I think should call them in and they should do it jointly.
BROWN: Right.
HALPERIN: And then they should set a better example in what they're doing. There's a lot of blame to go around for a partisan has become. This is not partisanship. This is threats, pretentiously illegal activity and discourse that has no place in American life.
BORGER: You know, and it's different for John Boehner to put out a press release denouncing something.
BROWN: Right.
BORGER: You know, what they have to do is physically, maybe your idea is great, meet with the president of the United States or at least do it together. I mean, come on, this shouldn't be that difficult. And maybe some Tea Party leaders are ought to do the same thing. And, you know, if there are people from -- move on doing this, they ought to do the same thing too. This is not the way we conduct our discourse because it gets dangerous.
HALPERIN: And we should all make clear, again just to reinforce this thing and so forth, this happens on the left and on the right.
BORGER: Exactly. Exactly.
HALPERIN: And it should be denounced across the board and the problem is, the Republican Party now is feeling weaker than they thought they would win this passed. And because they're feeling weaker, they're going wear the energy in their party is which is a place with a lot of anger.
BROWN: But, and to the point, let me just throw this number out because you hear a lot about the anger, but this Gallup poll out today, I just thought was fascinating, 46 percent of voters said, President Obama on health care reform that he did an excellent or good job. Congressional Democrats, 32 percent, Congressional Republicans, 26 percent. This isn't the mainstream about any means. I mean, it is a very vocal and very angry minority, but very much a minority.
BORGER: Well, it is. I mean, I think what Mark is saying is that what's going on now in the Republican Party, as you see all these amendments and amendments coming up to health care reform, which is in fact passed but they want to kind of balance up the works, is that they're making a play for their base right now. This is about the 2010 midterm elections. I don't want to say that congressional leaders in any way shape republicans or democrats and anyway shape or form condones this kind of language or activity or anything else. But what you're seeing on the floor of the senate going on is that it's diversionary. They are pushing every button the have in the council to try and rally the base. And what's happening is some folks are getting overheated on this.
BROWN: When you look at the president's agenda, they are taking this a little bit more big picture, in this climate, is there any legislation that he can get republican support for? Are we in like a lock down?
HALPERIN: Education, the president, I think, should call republican leaders to the White House and say, you agree with a lot of my agenda. Let's work at it everyday. I want to meet everyday with you and talk about an education agenda. It's about children, it's about areas of commonality. I think even if republicans were reluctant to do it.
BROWN: Even in advance of November, do you think, that's doable?
HALPERIN: I think it's so important to them, that education is such an important issue about partisan, it's one issue on which the president has shown a willingness to reject aspects of the democratic base and work in the center. And they might be able to do it on financial reform, but less likely and with less resonance.
BORGER: I think they're going to get a few republicans on financial reform which by the way democrats on Capitol Hill now call Wall Street reform.
BROWN: Right.
BORGER: It's Wall Street reform. So, and there are a few republicans who have shown a willingness to go along with some of the changes they're proposing. So, I think you could get a bunch.
HALPERIN: But I don't think that will change the paradigm because that's not an issue where they're going to be coming together in the actual spirit of preparation, that's more republican...
BORGER: That's a paradigm probably overall won't be changed before 2010.
HALPERIN: Probably not, but education I think have a chance to do.
BROWN: All right, Mark Halperin and Gloria Borger. Thanks, guys.
BORGER: Sure.
BROWN: Some frosty relations between the U.S. and Israel to talk about tonight. Is the White House giving Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu the diplomatic called shoulder certainly appears that way? We'll talk about that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tensions remain high between Israel and the United States over the plan to add Jewish settlements in the predominantly Palestinian East Jerusalem. The go ahead first announced when Vice President Joe Biden was visiting the region and embarrassment for the White House. And the White House has been very outspoken in its disapproval. Well, fast forward to last night at the White House. President Obama met twice with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu alone in the oval office. We would like to show you some pictures of these meetings. The usual photo that we get that we get in this kind of things. Incredibly though, there were no cameras. Something that almost never happens. And White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs was pressed about that today. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Diplomacy involves not just the substance of the event that Howard handles right to the west is like to handle, that was so low profile.
GIBBS: We handle different basis in different ways and this is the way we felt most comfortable handling this one.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Is the president concerned about photographs between him and Netanyahu being seen?
GIBBS: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: What his response to people who say that the way the president has welcome Netanyahu to the White House has been, as if he's embarrassed to be seen with Netanyahu.
GIBBS: I think it comes as a great shock to you and me, but not everything the president does is for the cameras and for the press.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, what really is going on here? CNN's Ed Henry and Jill Dougherty are joining us to talk about all this. And we should point out that just in terms of the big picture, this is moment where tensions are incredibly high between the U.S and the Israel. So, Ed what was the thinking, I know, you were there last night when this meeting took place. Tell us a little bit about, what happened?
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So much drama. I've never seen Campbell and event like this normally and especially an ally coming in, there would be a photo op, but also, you wouldn't see what unfolded, which is basically a 90 minute meeting at the Oval office and then I was standing out here on the lawn and I saw the White House gates opened up because the motorcade was going to depart. I even heard the motorcycles sort of raving up. They we're really ready to leave and all of a sudden, motorcycles went off, the gates closed, and that's because we're told, the Prime Minister decided he wanted to stick around a little longer and talk to his staff in a private room.
So, White House aides gave him the Roosevelt room. Steps from the Oval office. He conferred there while the president went up stairs to the residence to see his family. Then after a little bit, we're told Prime Minister called for the president to come back. He did come back. They went back to the Oval office. Nobody will give us the details. But what we have been able to pickup is that they're trying to get these peace talks going again and they seem to be hitting a brick wall -- Campbell.
BROWN: So, we are, I mean, are we -- are things frozen right now? Where do they stand right now? What is the White House sort of waiting to hear at this point?
HENRY: Well, the little information we're picking up from White House aides is that the president urged the Prime Minister to make some concessions, show some good faith after all this tension in recent weeks that could maybe get the ball rolling. Now, is that on settlements? Is that on something else? Nobody will get that specific, but the bottom line is there has been no movement from the Israelis so far. There was yet another meeting tonight with George Mitchell and the Israeli Prime Minister, George Mitchell, of course, the u.s. envoy in the Middle East. But right now, it really does appear to be frozen -- Campbell.
BROWN: And Jill, what potentially could happen now? We know the u.s. is demanding Israel all settlement activity. Israel is saying, no, it's not going to happen. How do you see a potential breakthrough, a emerging here? You've been covering this forever. What's the sense there?
DOUGHERTY: It's hard to see a breakthrough right now, Campbell, because, you know, what we're seeing right now is complete frozen situation. The whole idea of having the trip by the Prime Minister here was to bring things back on track, at least that's what we thought. And what do we end up with? Basically it's the same thing as two weeks ago where the issue of the settlements hasn't been resolved, there's no stepping back by Benjamin Netanyahu. And I think, most importantly, the whole idea of this is to get the parties back talking. And right before this entire flap started about two weeks ago, they were going to have what you called proximity talks, indirect talks. Now, those are in jeopardy. So, the real question is will there be any type of negotiations, will the two parties sit down and where does the peace process go?
BROWN: Jill Dougherty tonight and Ed Henry for us from the White House. Many thanks, guys. We appreciate it. We will of course be updating you when there is a breakthrough on that front. Still ahead though, the newest political odd couple, how an explosive issue brought two former rivals together for the legal fight of their lives. When we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: With the rivalry between republicans and democrats getting nastier by the day, we focus tonight on two men turning the partisan divide on its head. They are former rivals, lawyers who argued before the Supreme Court and one of the most divisive political fights in our history, the battle for the presidency in 2000. Ted Olson, a well known conservative with George W. Bush's lawyer. The man he defeated was David Boise, the Top Legal Strategist for Al Gore. And today they are fighting on the same side of another polarizing issue.
CNN Senior Political Analyst Gloria Borger has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BORGER (voice-over): It's a script that could have been written in Hollywood. The opening shot, a lunch in the Polo lounge at the Beverly Hills hotel. And it starts where you might expect, with a Hollywood heavy hitter. Director and actor Rob Reiner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB REINER, DIRECTOR AND ACTOR: This was after proposition eight went the wrong way for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BORGER: The lunch took place in November 2008, a week after the election. Obama won the white house. But gays and lesbians lost the right to marry in California.
REINER: We're trying to figure out what to do next. And then we thought about the idea of a possible legal challenge to proposition eight. And Sharon Depodosly (ph), a friend of my wife's came by the table.
BORGER: The friend suggested that they would find an ally in her former brother-in-law who turned out to be Ted Olson, a towering figure in the conservative legal movement.
(on camera) So that stunned you, right?
REINER: Yes. It more than stunned me. It stunned me, but I said if this is true, this is the home run of all times. I mean, the idea that Ted Olson, this arch conservative, the Solicitor General for George Bush who had argued Bush V. Gore and basically put me in bed for a couple of days, I was so depressed after Bush V. Gore was interested in gay rights. I thought let's check it out.
BORGER: But didn't you have any doubts about Ted Olson?
REINER: You know, they say that politics makes strange bed fellows. Well, you don't have a stranger bed fellow than me and Ted Olson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Chad griffin, founding partner of political and communications strategy: I was skeptical absolutely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BORGER (voice-over): Chad Griffin was also at the Polo Lounge that day. He and Rob Reiner are old friends and political allies. They met when Chad was just 19 and a press aide in the Clinton White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Good morning, Mr. President.
REINER: How are you today Mr. Griffin?
GRIFFIN: Fine, thank you sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BORGER: He gave Reiner the west wing tour when the director was scouting for his film in "American President." They decided Griffin would be the one to make that first uneasy call to Olson.
GRIFFIN: And much to my surprise, it was an issue he clearly thought a lot about, but the moment I hung up the phone, I realized that there was a chance I was talking to someone who overnight could become the most important, significant advocate for marriage equality that this movement has ever seen.
Ted Olson, 42nd United States Solicitor General: We talked for awhile on the telephone and then he said, can I come and talk to you in your office in Washington, D.C.?
BORGER: Olson took the meeting, although they kept it a secret.
(on camera) Here you are with Donald Rumsfeld.
(voice-over) After all, he's a conservative legal icon.
(on camera) The first thing you see when you walk through the door in this office is a picture of Ronald Reagan.
OLSON: Well, he was a wonderful man to know and work for. And of course President Bush is here too. BORGER (voice-over): That would be Bush 43.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Will, to the best of my ability.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BORGER: The president whose election Olson successfully defended before the Supreme Court in 2000, a memory that wasn't lost on Chad Griffin.
GRIFFIN: I knew I was in foreign territory, but I saw enough in that office to know just how republican, you know, of a world that Ted Olson comes from. And my world could not be more different than that.
BORGER: Also on display was Olson's extraordinary legal track record, with 44 Supreme Court victories under his belt.
(on camera) And here are that quells. Now, you get one of these, every time...
OLSON: Every time you argue a case in the Supreme Court, at the desk is the quill.
BORGER (voice-over): Weeks later, Reiner says the deal was sealed here at his California home.
(on camera): Was this kind of like an out-of-body experience of you. I mean, here you are sitting and talking to Ted Olson whom you probably regarded as --
REINER : Yes, the enemy.
OLSON: The devil, they say. The devil.
BORGER: Now, what are you?
OLSON: Well, I'm a devil to a different group of people.
ED WHALEN, CONSERVATIVE LEGAL ANALYST: It really is a betrayal of everything that Ted Olson has purported to stand for.
BORGER: Ed Whalen, a conservative legal analyst and former Olson fan, now, like many conservatives, feels betrayed.
WHALEN: He was viewed as someone who fought the good fight. I think most people assumed that he was a man of principle. I thought it was a shocking act on his part.
BORGER (on camera): And so do you think he's destroyed his reputation?
WHALEN: I think so.
OLSON: This is a case that challenges the status of individuals.
BORGER (voice-over): So why did Olson do it?
OLSON: People say you must be doing this because someone in your family is gay. That is not the case. I'm doing this because I think it's the right thing to do.
BORGER: And once Olson made the decision, it became an emotional journey.
OLSON: A younger woman who works here, is a lawyer. She came up to me and she said, Ted, I want to tell you what I think about what you're doing. She said, "I'm a lesbian. I don't think you know me. We haven't worked together. My partner and I have children. I can't tell you what you're doing for us by taking this case," and she started to cry. And then I did.
BORGER: Then Olson made another move right out of central casting. He wanted to hire a co-counsel. Of all people, the liberal David Boies, his former Supreme Court rival, the man he beat in Bush versus Gore. The director loved it.
REINER: Then when he suggested that we get David Boies to be his co-counsel, I thought, wow, to get the two guys who opposed each other on Bush v. Gore to team up, was saying that this is a nonpartisan issue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They share an abiding belief.
BORGER: Not to mention irresistible public relations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Ted recognized that this odd bedfellows combination, so to speak, would get a lot of attention.
BORGER (on camera): So people call them the odd couple.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it's a -- it is a very odd couple, isn't it?
BORGER (voice-over): Or is it? Judge for yourself.
OLSON: As we were getting ready to argue Bush versus Gore --
(CROSSTALK)
-- we said some day, some day --
DAVID BOIES, FIGHTING PROPOSITION 8: Right.
OLSON: Someone is going to come to us --
BOIES: Right.
OLSON: -- who will want to get married and they'll be gay. And we'll do this together.
We actually talked about that.
BOIES: That second part, I don't remember.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Next, these former Supreme Court rivals are more than colleagues in an inside look at a very surprising friendship right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Ted Olson and David Boies proved the adage opposites attract. Olson, a conservative icon who successfully argued for George W. Bush's election before the Supreme Court and the man he defeated, Democratic trial lawyer Boies. Well, now, they are working together in the fight for same-sex marriage. Once again, senior political analyst, Gloria Borger.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We now need to resolve this election.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): It was the historic case that decided the presidency and divided the nation. Olson and Boies were the ones on the steps of the Supreme Court battling it out. That was then. This is now. On the streets of New York, they're talking anything but the law.
TED OLSON, FIGHTING PROPOSITION 8: It's called crazy heart.
DAVID BOIES, FIGHTING PROPOSITION 8: Oh, I know.
OLSON: Jeff Bridges.
BOIES: I know. I know. I haven't seen that.
OLSON: Have you seen it?
BOIES: I haven't seen that. I want to see that though and "Avatar."
OLSON: Yes.
BORGER: They've come a long way.
(on camera): Let me play a little game with you. OK? Great lawyer.
BOIES: Ted.
OLSON: David.
BORGER: That's too easy. OK.
(voice-over): The adversaries are now friends, really good friends. And when we asked to meet with them, they suggested a personal spot, David Boies' apartment in New York City.
(on camera): If anybody had said to me nine years ago that I would be about to be interviewing the two men who fought each other tooth and nail in Bush versus Gore on the same side of a constitutional fight, I would have said are you crazy?
OLSON: Actually, David and I talked about this in 2000, as we were getting ready to argue in the Supreme Court, that some day, we'd like to be on the same side in the United States Supreme Court.
(CROSSTALK)
And we said in the chambers, some day -- some day --
BOIES: Right.
OLSON: -- someone is going to come to us who will want to get married and they'll be gay.
BORGER (voice-over): It would take nearly a decade for that to actually happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
PROTESTERS: Equal rights.
BORGER: Olson was recruited by a group of Hollywood activists who wanted to challenge Proposition 8, the controversial 2008 ballot initiative that banned same-sex marriage in California.
OLSON: Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here.
BORGER: He said yes, which was startling enough, but he knew he needed some political balance on the team, so he picked up the phone.
BOIES: And he told me what the case was about, and I think it took me about 15 seconds to say yes.
OLSON: It took you less than one second.
BORGER: It was a case made for David Boies, and Olson knew it.
BOIES: I think it is in some senses the last major civil rights battle that we're fighting in this country, hopefully. This is not a liberal conservative issue. It's not a Republican Democratic issue. It's an issue of civil rights and human rights.
BORGER (on camera): Do you find yourself defending Ted Olson to your Democratic friends?
BOIES: No.
BORGER: When they say to you how can you work with him?
BOIES: No, I find myself defending Ted Olson to my Republican friends. Democratic friends are easy. BORGER (voice-over): Politics aside, their wives joke that they're like an old married couple. They go biking together and both enjoy the finer things.
(on camera): But what do you like about each other?
BOIES: Where shall we start? Shall we start with the wine or the bike trips?
BORGER: Yes, let's start with the wine. After a long day, a glass of --
BOIES: A glass, definitely.
OLSON: Chardonnay.
BOIES: Yes, chardonnay.
BORGER (voice-over): They have known each other for decades as super lawyers practicing in a rarified legal stratosphere. Then came Bush versus Gore, the hottest case of all, a case that to this day they don't agree on.
BORGER (on camera): Do you still think you were right?
BOIES: Absolutely.
OLSON: Well, he wasn't obviously. Supreme Court decided. Furthermore, by the way, the journalists all went back to Florida and counted these votes about 12 different ways and they all came out the same way. But I will say this --
BOIES: Well, it didn't all come out the same way.
OLSON: Well --
BORGER (voice-over): Well, they'll never resolve that professional argument. But ironically, that case brought them closer personally.
BOIES: Something happens in the sense that you get so deeply involved in a case that about the only person that really appreciates what's going on is the lawyer on the other side who's just as deep into the weeds as you are. They can appreciate all these little nuances. And so, it's a natural kind of affinity.
BORGER: That affinity was strengthened by tragedy. A year later on September 11, 2001, Olson's wife Barbara was killed on flight 77, the flight that crashed into the Pentagon. Boies knew his friend was suffering and reached out to him.
BOIES: I was being given an award by the lab scroll in Washington and it was an annual award that they give. I'm dyslexic and they give it to somebody who has achieved, and I said to get Ted Olson. I would like to have Ted Olson give me the award.
OLSON: I'm very honored to be here with my colleague David Boies because he is the best.
I could hardly talk about it because it is such an emotional event. That gesture of David asking me to be with him on the stand receiving that award in front of the 2,000, 3,000 people was a wonderful gesture by him. It's ten years ago now and I can hardly talk about it.
BORGER: That strong bond is still there a decade later, as together they take on the fight for gay marriage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're the wonder twins. They're not the odd couple.
BORGER: Paul Katami and Jeff Cirillo are one of the couples that Olson and Boies are representing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you that both those guys, they put their heart and soul into this. And when they're fighting for our equal rights, they are on the same page and they are doing it together.
OLSON: Our nation was founded on the principle that all Americans are created equal.
BORGER: Their legal strategy is simple. Olson and Boies argue that banning same-sex marriage is unconstitutional, period. They expect the Supreme Court to be the ultimate decider for the nation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be the Roe versus Wade of our generation.
BORGER: They have their critics, conservative legal analyst Ed Whalen.
ED WHALEN, CONSERVATIVE LEGAL ANALYST: And there's nothing in the constitution properly construed that remotely supports a right to same-sex marriage.
BORGER: And even some of those who agree with Olson and Boies say that same sex marriage should be left to the states.
(on camera): There are lots of skeptics out there who say that you're going too quickly here. That you're essentially going to wind up at the Supreme Court and you're asking the Supreme Court to do a pretty heavy lift.
BOIES: Every civil rights struggle, there have always been people who have said you're moving too fast. The country is not ready for it. How many people in 1954 were saying the country is not ready for desegregation. Brown against Board of Education just too soon.
BORGER: But everyone says this is a conservative court. So why are you doing it now?
BOIES: Everybody says Ted is a conservative guy. I mean, there are lots of conservative people. The idea that civil rights and human rights is exclusively a liberal preserve, I just think is flat wrong.
BORGER (voice-over): Their clients have faith their lawyers will win.
(on camera): Will David and Ted be at the wedding?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They better be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They just might officiate the wedding.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That would be interesting.
BORGER: Or they could be best man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Man and man, right? Yes.
BORGER: Whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In our wedding and in life.
BORGER (voice-over): But in the end, that's likely to be a decision for the high court.
(on camera): Last time you went to the Supreme Court it didn't go so well for you. What's going to be different this time with the two of you together?
BOIES: Well, one thing, this time I've got Ted on my side.
OLSON: I would say the one thing that would be different is this time we'll get all the votes that I can persuade and all the votes David can persuade. There will be no votes left on the other side.
BORGER: No recount.
BOIES: No recount.
OLSON: No recount.
BOIES: No recount necessary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Gloria Borger back with us right now. And, Gloria, I have to ask, they are on the opposite side of public opinion of states on this issue.
BORGER: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thirty-six states have statutes banning same-sex marriage. Campbell, only six states allow it. Public opinion is opposed to it. But when you ask these two lawyers why are you out front on this, why not let the states decide it? They say, look, if it were up to the states, at the time of the Supreme Court decision on interracial marriage, you wouldn't have had interracial marriage either. They believe that Proposition 8 violates the constitutional equal protection clause. And they believe that in the end it should be decided by the courts. BROWN: And what's the status right now of the California courts?
BORGER: Well, right now, Campbell, we're awaiting closing arguments in the federal district court in San Francisco. There's been a bit of a delay because those who oppose them on same-sex marriage are actually questioning the legitimacy of the trial. But at some point there will be closing arguments and then no matter what this court decide, it will go to the ninth circuit and then most people believe right to the top of the Supreme Court.
BROWN: Great report. All right. A fascinating story and insight there. Gloria Borger.
BORGER: Thanks.
BROWN: Thanks, Gloria.
Coming up, the state of black America today. Are African- Americans better off? A new report has some pretty surprising answers. That just ahead.
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BROWN: More must-see news happening right now. Mike Galanos here with tonight's "Download."
Hey, Mike.
MIKE GALANOS, HLN PRIME NEWS: Hey, Campbell. First off, just into us tonight. Aruba authorities have called off a dive team search. This for the remains of Natalee Holloway. That's coming from a spokeswoman from the Aruba prosecutor.
The search for Holloway was revived after a vacationing couple came forward with a picture that could possible show human remains. They thought it was her skeleton. Holloway disappeared during a high school trip to Aruba back in 2005.
Actor Robert Culp died this morning after a fall in a Los Angeles Park. Now Culp won fame really as a secret agent Kelly Robinson on the '60s television series "I Spy." It's the first to feature an African American, Bill Cosby, in a starring role. In recent years, Culp played Ray Romano's father-in-law in "Everybody Loves Raymond." Culp was 79 and is survived by his fifth wife.
Well, Defense Secretary Robert Gates is expected to reveal changes to the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy tomorrow. Under the current rules, gays in the military cannot serve openly. Now, Gates will focus on regulatory changes the Pentagon can make without the approval of Congress. Among them, if a soldier is outed by a third party, that soldier will no longer be automatically dismissed.
And, Campbell, now to the video you mentioned earlier we didn't get a chance to see. Bill, Campbell, George W. Bush, they're in Haiti on a humanitarian mission. But take a look at this. It's a tape showing them shaking hands with some of the locals. Let's see if you notice everything. George Bush on the right, he pats, he pats. The blogosphere going wild, Campbell? Did he wipe his hand on Bill Clinton's shirt?
BROWN: No.
GALANOS: Are you seeing a pat or you're seeing a wipe? What are you seeing there?
BROWN: I'm seeing a pat. I think people are overreacting.
GALANOS: I saw the -- that's what I saw, I saw the pat first.
BROWN: Come on.
GALANOS: But that's all the blogosphere needs to get going, right?
BROWN: Yes, it doesn't take much these days.
GALANOS: It doesn't.
BROWN: Mike Galanos -- Mike, thanks very much.
GALANOS: Yes.
BROWN: Appreciate it.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes. Larry, what do you have for us tonight?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Maybe it was (inaudible).
BROWN: A little bit of something in between maybe.
KING: Hey, by the way, Campbell, seriously, a convicted murderer was scheduled to die just hours ago today. But a last minute temporary stay has kept Hank Skinner alive just for now. We'll talk to his wife and those who are fighting to keep him from the death chamber. Then we're going to discuss about two savage attacks on two teens who happened to attend the same school in Florida. Some threatening just revealed text messages might shed light on one of the cases. It's all coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE," Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Larry. We'll see you in a few minutes.
Coming up right here, America's racial divide, what this new report says about dreams of a post-racial nation. That when we come back.
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BROWN: Some sobering statistics tonight on the state of black America. A new report from the National Urban League shows the jobless rate among African-Americans is nearly twice the rate for white Americans. The same dramatic divide can be seen in virtually every measure from income and education to health care. Joining us right now from San Diego is best-selling author and Georgetown University professor, Michael Eric Dyson. It's good to see you. As we just said, the report showing this disparity between blacks and whites and that it's growing. I mean, unemployment numbers, as we pointed out there, homeownership, health insurance, on and on and on.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, BEST-SELLING AUTHOR: Right.
BROWN: I guess, first of all, does it surprise you that the gap is growing and where do we go from here?
DYSON: No, it's good to be here with you tonight, Campbell. No, I'm not surprised by it at all. The disparities are rather rough and severe. 9.7 percent unemployment among white Americans, 16.5 percent among African-Americans, 12.7 percent among Latinos. And when you look at every major index of economic and social and political health in this country, African-American and Latino people lag far behind.
I think that the irony, of course, is that we're in this putative post-racial era where we were done with the issue of race. And I think what this suggests to us is that we're far from done with the issue of race, and that these economic inequalities and these social disparities speak about two nations.
I mean, the current commission talked about it more than 40 years ago. One white, one black, unequal, and in one sense continuing to be divided. I think where we go form here is to try to fix that stuff. When we talk about President Obama targeting African-American communities, that's not because he's a black man and because they're black communities. That's because a major section and sector of the population is disproportionately affected by the downturn in the economy and I think we need some specific targeting for those things to happen.
For instance, $25 billion in the stimulus project was given in the program, was given to private businesses. Only 1.6 billion of that went to Latino and black businesses. So we have to figure out a way to close the gap intentionally by the government saying we have to target these communities because they are hardest hit and figure out a way to help them along.
BROWN: Right. But there has been this rift, you know, between the National Urban League, the NAACP, and the Congressional Black Caucus over President Obama, over him doing more to address these problems and target it, as you say that he needs to. And you've been pretty critical of the president as well.
DYSON: Sure.
BROWN: Why so critical and what is your main concern with how he's approaching this?
DYSON: Well, you know, obviously, I was one of the, you know, first African-American people to endorse Mr. Obama and stood by him and was a surrogate. But I think now that he's governing, we have to hold him accountable as he would ask to be held accountable.
Wolf Blitzer asked him in South Carolina what should the people -- why would Martin Luther King Jr. endorse you. He said he would. He'd get America to hold us accountable. That's what I'm trying to do.
I think the reason I've been critical is that Mr. Obama has been loathe to embrace the issue of race, first of all but secondly, to target these poorer communities which happen to be African-American and Latino with specific funds or at least help economically that might lift them. He says a rising tide lifts all boats. The reality is if you ain't got a boat in the first place, Campbell, you can't even get in the boat to be lifted. And I think that we have to do is talk about boat making. We have to talk about economic and fiscal integrity for these communities. We have to talk about the trillions of dollars that were bled off during the subprime mortgage scandal.
And I think what the Congressional Black Caucus is doing is what it should do. Hold the president accountable to the issues and ideals and practices that every president, by the way, not just him, every president before Mr. Obama who was white dealt with the issue of race in one form or another. Bill Clinton with the race initiative, George Bush in dealing with Africa and domestic policies --
BROWN: Right.
DYSON: -- and across the board. We can't expect a black president not to do what other white presidents have done that has dealt with the issue of race. Lyndon Baines Johnson dealt with the civil rights bill --
BROWN: Right.
DYSON: -- and the voting rights act. All presidents must do it. Mr. Obama must not be exempt from doing the same.
BROWN: A much longer discussion. I wish we had more time. Michael Eric Dyson, professor, it's nice to have you on. Appreciate you coming by tonight.
DYSON: Always good to be here.
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" coming up in just a few minutes. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: That's all for now. You can follow me anytime on Twitter. And join us tomorrow night. Gloria Estefan is going to be live from Miami.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
