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American Morning
Obama, Netanyahu Meet at White House; Gates Order Military Evaluation; Republicans & the Tea Party; Rebuplican's Tea Party, No More Gift Cards; Are You Smart?; Meals Get Bigger in 52 "Last Supper" Works; Workers Get Green Jobs From Clean Energy; Health Care Q&A; Yes He Did Again
Aired March 24, 2010 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Thanks for being with us on this Wednesday. It's March 12th. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm John Roberts. Thanks for being with us.
And here are this morning's top stories.
No public handshakes, no photo-ops, all business as President Obama met with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. The meeting is closed to the media. Mending fences was on the agenda, first between Israel and the United States, before they even got to the Middle East.
We're live at the White House this morning.
CHETRY: Defense Secretary Robert Gates demanding more information about the way the military gathers information. He wants answers following some revelations about a possible illegal spy network in Pakistan and Afghanistan using your tax dollars.
We're live at the Pentagon -- ahead.
ROBERTS: Has the famous Last Supper been supervised? According to a new study, it looks like the Last Supper has gotten bigger and bigger over the last 1,000 years.
We're talking with the study's author -- just ahead.
CHETRY: We begin, though, with President Obama's closed-door meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Mideast experts are calling it a moment of truth for any chance of negotiating a two-state solution, an Israeli and Palestinian state side by side.
First, though, Israel and the U.S. have to hammer things out for themselves.
Jill Dougherty is live at the White House.
And, Jill, it comes at one of the most tense times between the two allies. So, first of all, just tell us about what happened at this meeting yesterday -- what was out of the ordinary from your point of view in terms of just how much this was talked about and how much information was shared with the press and the public afterward.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, very little information, Kiran. But look at this. We have -- it was behind closed doors, no photo-op, really no readout about exactly what they discussed, and then 90-minute meeting. That's quite a long meeting.
And then the details coming out from a White House official tell the tale, because it started out with the president and the prime minister meeting in the Oval Office, then after that meeting, Mr. Obama, we are told, goes to his residence. The prime minister and his staff sit there and discuss some things in the Roosevelt Room. Then the prime minister asks for another meeting with the president. President Obama comes back and meets again for 30 minutes.
So, it's pretty rare type of diplomatic choreography. And then, as you mentioned, it come -- does come at a critical time in the relationship, and they have been really on the outs for two straight weeks over that issue of settlements in east Jerusalem.
And then finally, a testing of the alliance between the two countries, the whole idea of this trip was to try to bring things back on track. And you'd have to say, looking at what they got, not much. The administration did not get much. Mr. Netanyahu goes back, having delivered a really strong statement and not backing down over the issue of settlements.
CHETRY: All right. It will continue to be a thorny issue for sure. Jill Dougherty with us live from the White House this morning -- thanks so much.
And sorry about that. I was only half right earlier when I said it was March 12th. It's March 24th. You must have turned back the time, right? Move ahead.
ROBERTS: Time goes by so quickly, it feels like March 12th was just yesterday anyways.
A team of military officials has been ordered to spend two weeks evaluating the way the Defense Department gathers information. That command comes from Defense Secretary Robert Gates, following reports that a Pentagon official may have misused $24 million for information gathering to set up an illegal spy ring.
Our Barbara Starr joins us live from the Pentagon this morning.
Barbara, what is the secretary hoping to learn from this evaluation?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Secretary Gates wants to know what information he's paying for and who he's paying to get that information. He has ordered this review, but there is also a much more formal military investigation going on into contractors and the people they hire to collect information in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
You know, it's going to sound like a spy novel, a former Iran Contra operative; former military commandos all under hire by this man. We have a picture to show you.
This is Michael Furlong, a DOD civilian employee who ran more than $20 million in contracts. It must be said that Mr. Furlong has denied any wrongdoing in any of this.
But the information that these contractors collected was turned over, we have confirmed, to military officials for possibly targeting the Taliban and the al Qaeda.
And, John, we have obtained documents here that we can detail to you but can't show you too much about. These are documents that show the kinds of information collected, information about Taliban and al Qaeda meetings, information about what Mullah Omar was up to, information about safe houses in Kabul, not collected by the CIA -- very sensitive information collected by private contractors.
The question now is what were private contractors doing this for and generally, it is prohibited for contractors to collect intelligence, especially in Pakistan, which doesn't allow U.S. officials, U.S. military operations inside their country -- John.
ROBERTS: And, Barbara, some potentially odd characters involved in all of this, as well.
STARR: Absolutely. Let's show you.
This is the man, Dewey Clarridge. Dewey Duane Clarridge is a former CIA operative. He was once tied to the Iran Contra scandal, pardoned many years ago by President George H.W. Bush for his alleged role in Iran Contra.
We have confirmed that Mr. Clarridge is working on this program and has received money. He is using some of his old contacts in both Afghanistan and Pakistan to obtain information for the Pentagon. And there may well be, experts tell us, a diplomatic furor, when Pakistan realizes that contractors were collecting information, intelligence, about what was going on in their country -- John.
ROBERTS: Bit of intrigue here. Barbara Starr for us this morning -- Barbara, thanks so much.
STARR: Sure.
CHETRY: Well, the ink on President Obama's signature was barely dry when critics launched plans to battle health care reform. In fact, within minutes of yesterday's signing ceremony, attorneys general from 14 states filed lawsuits arguing that Congress has no constitutional power to require Americans to buy insurance. Now, all but one of the attorneys general are Republican. It was led by Florida's attorney general, and there was one Democrat.
The White House, though, calls the suit a, quote, "waste of funds during the worst economic crisis in a generation."
ROBERTS: Meanwhile, this afternoon, President Obama goes behind closed doors to sign an executive order to ensure federal funds will not be used for abortions. The promise of that restriction was critical in getting socially conservative House Democrats, like Congressman Bart Stupak, to switch their "no" vote to a "yes" on health care reform.
CHETRY: And this morning Republicans are in the midst of their counterattack. Senate Republicans are offering a number of amendments, making things politically difficult for Democrats who still have to vote on the fixes to the law. Republicans are also launching a new campaign to defeat Democrats in the November elections.
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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Repeal and replace will be the slogan for the fall. There are some things in the bill -- unfortunately, a small percentage of the things in the bill that we could have agreed on on a bipartisan basis months ago. But there are other parts, for example, the half a trillion dollars in Medicare cuts, the half a trillion dollars in new taxes, higher insurance premiums that are coming on individual purchasers, that are not a good idea.
And we're going to remind the American people of that in the future and, hopefully, we'll be able to repeal the most egregious parts of this and replace them with things that we could have done on a bipartisan basis much earlier this year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, once again, we are taking your comments on the new health care law. Tell us what you think. Join the live blog on our Web site, CNN.com/amFIX. There's a really interesting back-and- forth going on right now that you should check out. And we're actually going to take a quick break and when we come back, we're going to read a little bit more of this.
But it's interesting, there's a big back-and-forth. Someone said, yay, now, I don't have to pay for health care; and someone else said, somebody has to pay for your health care. And so --
ROBERTS: That's the great thing about blogs. You get that live discussion going on.
Let's get a live discussion going on with weather. Our Reynolds Wolf is in the weather center in Atlanta this morning.
Hey, Reynolds.
REYNOLDS WOLF, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey, guys.
Snow is the big story -- snow early and then talking about possibly some heavy rain and maybe some thunderstorms later on.
Let's go right to weather maps. What we have first and foremost for you will be the areas of the watches and warnings. That's based with the areas you see, they are shaded in that bluish- green and that red. Red is where you're going to have the warnings.
And where you may have the heavy snow -- some places up to a foot of snow, possibly several inches of rain across parts of Kansas, back in Oklahoma, and maybe some strong thunderstorms as we ease down towards Texas. We could see delays in the Dallas/Fort Worth area; also, some possible delays up in the Northeast due to the windy conditions.
That is the latest on your forecast. We've got more coming up in just a few moments. Let's send it back to you in New York.
CHETRY: All right. Reynolds for us -- thanks so much.
Well, next on the Most News of the Morning -- is the party over? Some Republicans are now thinking of moving away from the tea party movement. Carol Costello with an "A.M. Original" -- next.
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CHETRY: Well, the Republican Party and the tea party -- officially, there is no link between the two, but there's a new Quinnipiac Poll showing that a vast majority, 74 percent of tea partiers, also called themselves Republicans or independents who lean Republican. So, on the surface, they may actually seem like the perfect political pairing.
ROBERTS: But we have seen some racist overtones from a small number of tea party protesters, and that has some Republicans really uneasy.
Our Carol Costello is live in D.C. this morning with this "A.M. Original."
Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John and Kiran.
Republicans are walking a tight rope when it comes to the tea party movement. On the one hand, it needs its passion. On the other hand, it doesn't need the controversy, especially if it's racially tinge. So, what should the party do -- continue to make nice with the tea party or go its own way?
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COSTELLO (voice-over): It may be just a few bad apples in a sea of demonstrators, but the message they're sending resonates -- and not in a good way.
While Republican Party leaders say they don't condone such behavior, Newsweek.com's Katie Connolly writes, they "encourage the sort of anger that boils over into such foul insults." Have the tea party protests, she wonders, become "loud, mad, and dangerous" for the Republicans?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The children of America are in crisis.
COSTELLO: Lenny McAllister says he's a proud tea party member and a conservative Republican.
LENNY MCALLISTER, REPUBLICAN ACTIVIST & TEA PARTY MEMBER: We have to speak out against this stuff because it does not fit into our principles, morals, or values. At the same time, we cannot alienate the most active aspects of the conservative base at this time.
COSTELLO: He's calling on conservatives to help the Republican Party walk that tight rope in a way they did not back in 2009, when Republican National Chairman Michael Steele denounced Rush Limbaugh's incendiary talk.
MICHAEL STEELE, RNC CHAIRMAN: Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer. Rush Limbaugh -- his whole thing is entertainment. Yes, he's incendiary.
COSTELLO: Steele found so little support after that, he ended up apologizing to Limbaugh.
Steele and other Republican leaders did condemn those who shouted racial slurs at black lawmakers this past weekend, but rejected the notion that its association with the tea party is dangerous "because at its core, it's about shared conservative values -- limited government, lower taxes, and individual freedom."
Some Republicans say the real danger for their party is not saying this loudly enough.
PRINCELLA SMITH (R), ARKANSAS CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Good government in America.
COSTELLO: Princella Smith is running for Congress in Arkansas.
SMITH: I'm a small-town girl. And so, what I'm espousing are small-town, everyday American principles, and I've got an overwhelmingly positive response from Republicans and tea partiers.
COSTELLO: Smith, who spoke at the Republican National Convention, is one of some 30 African-American Republicans running for Congress, one of the biggest rosters ever. And something, says Smith, that if more widely known would help drown out any fringe element that tries to associate itself with conservatives.
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COSTELLO: McAllister, who is a popular tea party speaker, says the real danger for the Republican Party and the tea party movement is not discouraging these fringe elements. When they see someone using these movements to further a racist agenda, they should shout them down and disinvite them from the party -- John, Kiran.
ROBERTS: All right. Carol Costello for us this morning -- Carol, thanks so much.
You know on another topic, we've been asking people to weigh in on our blog to cnn.com/amfix on the health care debate and we've got some interesting dialogue.
CHETRY: Yes, there's a back and forth. There is Rose from Canada who wrote in. She's a 25-year-old female. She's so happy this health care bill was signed. And she said, "I can't imagine what it would be like if I had to pay into my health care. Congratulations, America, and be healthy."
And then a couple of responses back, Melon said, "You get your health care for nothing on the back of someone else because it isn't free, you're just a burden to someone else." And then there was a sort of big back and forth between them and other people joining into the conversation as well. Yes, she's from Canada, but she's weighing in on the debate, which is now over in the U.S. health care.
ROBERTS: Yes and Rose later on admits that no, she actually does pay into health care because you do in Canada. It's about the same amount as we pay here for Medicare, 2.5 percent of income. And she acknowledges that. So it's not free, and that was one of the big myths when everybody was discussing this health care debate here in the United States that Canadians get their health care for free. They certainly don't. They do have to pay, and plus all the other taxes are elevated, as well.
But it's great to see that rough-and-tumble back and forth on our blog. Keep the comments coming, join the log blog on our Web site, cnn.com/amfix.
CHETRY: We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Alina Cho on all the things you have to do applying for college. We'll add make a video and make it good to the list. She continues her series, "Are You Smart" still ahead.
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ROBERTS: Nineteen minutes now after the hour. Stephanie Elam here for Christine Romans this morning, "Minding Your Business." and we are talking here about gift cards and new regulations that are going into effect.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's true, and this is something you need to know about. You know you give somebody a gift card, you think they'll use it, the greatest gift they can get what they want, but for a lot of people, they forget that they even have them or they lose them as the case may be for someone sitting at this desk.
CHETRY: Somewhere.
ELAM: Somewhere over there.
CHETRY: And now it won't expire.
ELAM: No, well, they do have a time limit. Let me tell you what's going on. The federal reserve wants to put these rules together to protect consumers. The rules go into effect August 22nd of this year. So they are going to limit fees that issuers can actually charge on gift cards, including for inactivity, dormancy and other fees. And they'll have to clearly state the terms and conditions of these fees so the consumer knows what they're up against here.
And they'll only be able to charge fees after a year of the card not being used and after that the fees will be limited to one a month, and they can't charge fees -- or I should say they extended the expiration date for gift cards to at least five years. Should be plenty of time for you to go out there and get that toaster oven, whatever it is you need to do.
It will be based on the date of issuance or the last time that funds were added to the gift card. But a lot of people said that there just wasn't a lot of clarity about gift cards. And you go to use them and you find out, hey, wait a second they've been using -- they've been taking out a little money each time --
CHETRY: Right.
ELAM: Because you weren't using your gift card so as much as you thought you had, you really didn't.
ROBERTS: Sure, how many people get gift cards over the holidays and they throw it in a drawer or something like that and maybe 12, 14 months later, they go into the drawer and oh, a gift card, they use it and --
ELAM: And they find out it's not as much as they thought or a lot of people who got married or baby showers, not that I would even think about that at all right now.
ROBERTS: What would you know about baby showers?
ELAM: I know nothing right now.
CHETRY: She's just asking you for cold, hard cash.
(LAUGHTER)
CHETRY: You get the gift card you never --
ELAM: But the thing is that people all these gift cards and they may not need to use them at the time that they get them, especially if you get a lot at one time.
ROBERTS: Sure.
ELAM: But it's important to put them in place so you don't waste money. And you are not wasting your friends and families money either. ROBERTS: Put them in one place that's not the trash.
ELAM: Right.
CHETRY: I've got to find it. I'm sure it's around there somewhere.
ELAM: Yes. It is --
ROBERTS: Where could you possibly lose them? It's got to be somewhere. They haven't moved or anything. You couldn't have lost them.
CHETRY: No, I mean but, it could have fallen out somewhere. That's my problem. Just like fallen out.
ELAM: You just walk around -- she's like pig pen, walking around and things go flying off of her. Doesn't know where they are.
ROBERTS: Thanks Stephanie, that's Stephanie Elam --
ELAMS: Sure.
ROBERTS: On "Minding Your Business" this morning.
CHETRY: Well coming up we'll have an interesting guest. Two brothers, actually, we are going to talk to one of them, our scientist and they are scholars, theologians and they basically analyzed the artwork depicting "The Last Supper" over the years and how we've supersized "The Last Supper" over generations. They are going to explain why and probably decide to pick up this project.
ROBERTS: Get away from the last nibble to the last feast.
CHETRY: Exactly and all you can eat -- 22 minutes past the hour.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that's why you should vote for me, Elle Woods future lawyer for the class of 2004.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elle Woods. Welcome to Harvard.
ROBERTS: Applying for college using the videotape. It's not just for the "Legally Blond" anymore. In fact, at least one highly respected university welcomes the practice. But is a video the best way to judge an applicant's intelligence?
CHETRY: Well, this week in our special series, "Are You Smart," Alina Cho takes an in depth look at all aspects of intelligence. She joins us to examine the kinds of smarts a student needs to get into college these days. ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Listen Elle Woods, you know she was blond but she wasn't dumb. Turned out she did very well at Harvard Law School, you know, in the movie.
CHETRY: Right but the implication was she got in because they saw her in a bikini in the video. So is that what is going on here with one university?
CHO: Well let's hope not guys, you know, good morning. You know we all do know that the college admissions process is super competitive. You do have to be smart, good grades, high S.A.T.S, but if you're applying to Tufts University, a personal video can help, too. It's actually part of the application. So, does a YouTube video measure a different kind of smart? You be the judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you want Tuft is what you want --
CHO (voice-over): What does this, this, and this have to do with getting into college?
EVAN RENAUD, TUFTS APPLICANT: I hope the admissions officers will notice it, be, like, oh, hey, this guy's really cool.
CHO: Tufts University near Boston is now accepting personal videos as part of the application process, among the first the nation to do so, not to replace essays, grades, or S.A.T.S, but as a supplement. The videos are not required, but students are, well, getting into it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the right thing. Accept this Israeli. I'll bring the good like Barnum & Bailey.
CHO: Already, almost 1,000 students are taking part out of the 15,000 applications they received. Some on YouTube have been viewed by thousands. Demonstrating creativity and animation, wilderness survival skills.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm making a light weight reusable oven out of a cardboard box, some turkey pans and some tin foil.
CHO: And in Rhaina Cohen's case a twist on a familiar phrase -- walk a mile in my shoes. In her case, literally.
RHAINA COHEN, TUFTS APPLICANT: I wasn't trying to come off as, you know, Imelda Marcos and say I have 3,000 shoe, but I just wanted to show a bit of who I am. I think that's what the goal is with applications in general, that these are humans looking at files filled with so many papers and trying to discern who are you, would I want to meet you, would I be intrigued by you?
CHO (on camera): What does the YouTube video provide for an admissions officer that the application doesn't?
MARILEE JONES, FORMER M.I.T. DEAN OF ADMINISTRATIONS: Well, you really get to see these applicants in their adolescent best. You see the cleverness, and you see their goofiness, and you see who they are as human beings and this is the point.
CHO: Marilee Jones former dean of admissions at M.I.T., calls the personal videos refreshing.
JONES: It's very easy to fall in love with someone in one minute. It's also very easy to get turned off. So what these students are doing by providing these videos this year is a very high wire act. They're taking huge risk, which is why I love them.
CHO (voice-over): Showing a kind of intellectual chutzpa to go along with the other credentials. Can you tell me range what you got on the S.A.T.?
COHEN: Out of 2400, I got 2300.
CHO (on camera): 2300 out of 2400 on your S.A.T.? Oh, my gosh. You didn't need that video.
CHO (voice-over): For others, a place where playing with fire can be a ticket to college.
RENAUD: Everyone else probably talks about community service or being a varsity athlete, and so I thought fire (INAUDIBLE) the only thing that I know that I do that nobody else does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO (on camera): He did burn his stomach twice, though, we should mention. Tufts says it's still committed --
CHETRY: Don't bring those things to the dorms.
CHO: That's right. You know we should mention guys that Tufts says it is still committed to the essay writing portion because they say that, you know, for the application process, it is important still to be able to write elegantly, but these videos really are a way to show that they are media savvy, too.
You know, in this YouTube age, in this twitter age, in this Facebook age, it's something that they feel they have to do, right. But you know one dean of admissions I spoke to said something really, really interesting. She said, listen, this first year that this is being allowed into Tufts, it's great because there's some authenticity, but these things quickly get gamed.
So in a couple years, two, three years, maybe they are going to -- some of the more wealthy kids will hire Hollywood directors and soon they'll be showing at Sundance.
CHETRY: Yes exactly.
CHO: So there is a danger in that, but right now, you know, listen, it does showa different side, a different kind of intelligence, a creative emotional intelligence that doesn't come out on paper.
CHETRY: It will be interesting to check back in with Tufts and see how many of these thousands of applicants that did the video or the YouTube got accepted.
CHO: Well we will now.
CHETRY: And then also you know compared to the regular --
CHO: No I mean that's a good idea, we will do this. But it is certainly the way of the future. You know you will be seeing more colleges do this.
ROBERTS: You know maybe "Back To The Future." How about a personal interview?
CHO: Well, this is the new form of the personal interview is what they're saying. You're right. Now, listen...
ROBERTS: Because as you said, you can game the system.
CHO: That's right, that's right. You can.
CHETRY: Interesting.
CHO: Pros and cons.
CHETRY: Alina, thanks so much.
CHO: You bet.
CHETRY: Well, half past the hour. Time for a look at our top stories.
President Obama will soon hit the road selling the health care reform law even as the Senate works to fix it. Right now, Republicans are offering a number of amendments to the reconciliation bill that could make things politically difficult for Democrats, including one amendment that would prohibit taxpayer dollars from being spent on medications like Viagra for sex offenders.
ROBERTS: The Pentagon said to be considering a more humane enforcement of its Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy, which prevents gays from serving openly in the military. CNN has just learned that Defense Secretary Robert Gates is expected to announce the changes tomorrow. Gates has supported President Obama's call for a repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
CHETRY: Well, a dramatic pirate battle off the coast of Somalia. Officials say that one pirate was killed during a shoot-out with private security guards hired to protect that cargo ship. The remaining pirates took off. They were eventually captured by a Spanish navy vessel.
ROBERTS: Well, has the meal in the Last Supper reached biblical proportions? Two brothers, both college professors, think so. Using computer technology, they compared the size of the Jesus and his disciples' heads to the size of their food.
CHETRY: And they found that in more than 50 of the paintings over the last 1,000 years, the food actually got bigger and bigger. In fact, the main dish growing by 70 percent. The study was published in the April's "International Journal of Obesity."
Interesting stuff. And we brought one of the co-authors of the study on to talk about it today -- Craig Wansink. He's a professor of Religious Study also at Virginia Wesleyan College.
Thanks for being with us this morning, professor.
CRAIAG WANSINK, VIRGINIA WESLEYAN COLLEGE PROFESSOR: It's great to be here. Thank you.
CHETRY: And also we should say your brother couldn't be here because he's on a book tour.
WANSINK: In China.
CHETRY: There you go. Well, I want to ask you guys about this because you studied 52 different paintings, depictions of the Last Supper over a thousand-year period. What was the idea behind this?
WANSINK: You know, the original idea, this is sort of a collaboration between two brothers. He studied -- he studied economics. I study religious studies. We just started looking at the paintings for some other reasons, for art historical reasons.
And then gradually, we began to see within the paintings sizes. We began to look at food and see how that changed over time, how sometimes you see different foods because of cultural reasons, maybe historical or social reasons.
But gradually began to see that the food sizes began to grow. The plate sizes began to grow. What started as a late-night observation and just -- I was going to say between two brothers whose kids had finally gone to bed and we were just talking. We didn't know it would turn into an article.
ROBERTS: It is very, very intriguing. What was your frame of reference for determining how the food size had grown?
WANSINK: Well, it's difficult. There are so many different variables like it's sort of like shooting skeet on a roller coaster. You have to contain some variables. You have to make them dependent.
And so what we did was took the --- took the head sizes on the paintings and used those and compared them to the size of the food. And that was one way for us to make sure that there wasn't too much variance. Otherwise, it would absolutely be comparing apples and oranges.
CHETRY: Right. So, it's really interesting. Let's just put up a few graphics so people can see in the findings of your study. The entrees increased by 69 percent in size. The plates themselves actually grew by 66 percent in size. Bread, one of the meals there, grew 23 percent in size. So, is this portion distortion, as some may call it, imitating art or vice versa?
WANSINK: No. It's -- yes, it's a difficult thing to say. I mean, clearly coming out of the Middle Age or coming out of the Dark Ages, you can see more -- you're going to see more and more food on the table. And I think that gradually becomes idealized. Larger portions come to be seen as good in general.
You know, when we look at the paintings, we have to be --- we have to be sensitive to the art itself, but what's fascinating is you see a clear trajectory, the size of the food, the size of the platters keeps getting larger and larger.
ROBERTS: Of course, Craig, the most famous rendition of the Last Supper is Da Vinci's. Let's put that up quickly. And just give us an idea of what this describes in terms of the amount of food on the table.
WANSINK: I was going to say, Leonardo's painting really was the starting --- the starting place for the study because it got us --- it got us interested in looking at the plate, looking at this in general. It stands out because of proportions. It stands out because of the disciples. Probably doesn't stand out as much in terms of food.
One of the interesting points about is that there's eel on the table. Eel garnished with orange slices. And what I think is pretty fascinating about that is, if we can use the term "Iron Chef" here, that was basically an "Iron Chef" food in the time of Leonardo. So people did all sorts of creative things with it. So it was included in the painting perhaps for that reason, really reflecting the time.
ROBERTS: OK. Let's get your three comparisons here that you wanted to take a look at. One is a Duccio from 1311, a Holbein from 1524 and a Crespi from 1624. Tell us about the evolutions and the comparisons here.
WANSINK: Again, these are --- these are fairly random shots. For the Duccio, the table is sparse. You see the plates are small, the bread is pretty small. If you look at the Holbein, with something like this, we had a challenge because there's clearly an empty platter there. We can't really tell, but we can tell something about the size of the platter, how much it grew.
When we finally get to Crespi, boy, it looks like a buffet. There's lots of food. There's lots of platters. Anyone who wants to see this as a Passover meal or a satyr or anything like that, that bread is not unleavened. That is puffy, puffy bread.
And so, these are just some actually pretty random images that show the evolution of what we began to see. Initially, we saw images just like this and began to wonder about it. And then when we --- then we looked at a number of images, we just began to see the trend --- we began to see a clear trend time and time again.
CHETRY: It's also interesting, I mean, you know, from an anthropological standpoint. What does it tell us about the role and the meaning of food in our culture and how that's changed over the years?
WANSINK: No, no. Absolutely. I think my brother did a study. He wrote a book called "Mindless Eating." In there, he talks about portion distortion, talks about what's really happened particularly in the last 20 years. But what he wanted to see here, what we wanted to see was whether or not we could see anything historically.
I think what ends up happening after a while is what we see as an ideal in these paintings is attainable today, and so as a result, sometimes people embrace maybe what should only be an artistic ideal.
ROBERTS: Well, I tell you, it's a unique study. No question about it. And obviously proving that the super-sizing of our food is nothing new.
Craig Wansink, great to talk to you this morning. Thanks so much.
WANSINK: Thank you very much.
CHETRY: Congratulations for getting that study published. Neat stuff.
Well, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, much more ahead. It's 37 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty minutes now to the top of the hour.
From steel beams and car parts to green jobs and wind turbines, old factories are getting new life, and more importantly, factory workers are getting paychecks again because of clean energy.
Our Joe Johns has a real turnaround story from America's Rust Belt in today's "Building Up America" report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This used to be steel country U.S.A. with its towering pollution machines. But now, new jobs and the clean energy sector, putting people back to work, going green all at the same time.
The U.S. subsidiary of a company based in Spain, Gamesa U.S.A., is manufacturing enormous windmill blades at this Pennsylvania plant, shipping them all over the U.S. Ron Sanders is the plant manager.
(on camera): How many of these do you guys make a week?
RON SANDERS, PLANT MANAGER, GAMESA, USA: We're moving back up to produce more at 11 blades per week.
JOHNS: And at your lowest point during the recession, how many were you putting out?
SANDERS: Just five per week.
JOHNS (voice-over): Sanders got a break from the recession by coming here to work. He used to work for an automotive supply plant that fell on hard times.
SANDERS: Well, I had been in automotive for almost 30 years. As the industry declined, I found myself having to leave the employer that I was working for at the time. So in December of '08, I left. And then in June 2009 I started here with Gamesa.
JOHNS (on camera): 230 people work at this plant, 24 hours a day, five days a week. And building just one of these blades is a huge job. They can weigh 15,000 pounds, 45 meters long. It takes almost 24 hours to build just one.
(voice-over): And there are other people here who might have been out of work but for the appearance of these green jobs.
Ed Burnat had jobs at three different steel plants before it all dried up. He's grateful to be working here.
(on camera): So what's better? Steel working or this?
ED BURNAT, WIND TURBINE BUILDER: I don't want to say.
JOHNS: You go where the work is?
BURNAT: Sure, you have a family. You have to feed your family. You do what you have to do.
JOHNS (voice-over): It took about three months to figure out the new job and less time to see one of the upsides.
BURNAT: Most of the guys that work here like the idea of it being green. We like the idea of this, cleaning our environment up. A lot of people here are, you know, like that idea.
JOHNS: Creating green jobs is something the president talks a lot about, but to tell the truth, the U.S. lags behind Western Europe in windmill production and use. So in the end, the real job may be standing up the windmill industry in the U.S. so it can create more jobs, more energy, and compete in the global market.
Joe Johns, CNN, Evansburg, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: Pretty cool. We're following all your comments on our blog this morning. And coming up, Sanjay, Dr. Gupta, answering your questions about the new health care law. You can join the live blog on our Web site, CNN.com/AmFix.
It's 43 minutes past the hour. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Let's get a quick check of this morning's weather headlines. Reynolds Wolf is in for Rob this morning at the Weather Center. Good morning, Reynolds.
REYNOLDS WOLF, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Hey, good morning, guys.
What we're dealing with today, you've got a big bull's-eye of rough weather in parts of the central U.S., some showers and storms in parts of Dallas, Texas, back in the Colorado and into parts of New Mexico right into the Sangre de Cristo Mountains could see a few foot of snowfall in some places.
And travel could be rough going in and out of Denver and not just the skies above but also on the freeways.
Same deal in parts of Oklahoma City, southward into Dallas.
And here is the big culprit, this area of low pressure that's going to bring in rough weather to parts of the central and southern plains.
And then as we fast forward into tomorrow's forecast, we're going to see that low track a bit more to the east. As it does so, you'll see the opportunity of some strong storms developing in parts of Alabama, back into Mississippi even into Louisiana and Arkansas before all is said and done.
Breezy conditions moving into the central plains and as far as today is concerned, though, your travel troubles are really going to be limited to Boston, New York metros due to the wind; could see an hour delay for all your airports in the D.C. area, including Philadelphia and Cleveland.
You could have some issues with fog in Denver. As we mentioned, the snow and the wind are really going to hamper the visibility. So it could have some backups there as well.
That's a quick check on your forecast. We'll have more updates for you coming up throughout the day right here. I send it back to you guys.
ROBERTS: Reynolds thanks so much. I appreciate it.
You know, the health care bill signed into law yesterday, but a lot of people have a lot of questions still about what does this mean for me. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, breaking that all down for you, answering your questions coming up next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Ten minutes until the top of the hour. It's time for your "AM House Call"; stories about your health and questions a lot of you have about health care reform. They're pouring into us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ROBERTS: Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us now from Atlanta with some answers to your questions. Sanjay, great to see you this morning.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, yes. It's good to see you.
ROBERTS: First question comes to us from Twitter. This person says, "Will this bill allow people who are HIV positive to get health insurance? Will they be able to buy new policies?"
GUPTA: Yes, the short answer is yes on this, and it's really two phases. First of all, people have been talking a lot about pre- existing conditions and that eventually insurance companies will not be allowed to discriminate against people based on pre-existing conditions. That takes place in 2014, that whole policy.
What's going to happen sooner than that, within 90 days of implementation of this bill, that this high-risk pools are going to be set up around the country so that if you have some sort of medical problem and you're uninsured you can qualify for these high-risk pools.
The way that works is the federal government is essentially putting about $5 billion into these pools to help offset the costs of insuring people who have some sort of medical issues.
CHETRY: All right, we got a question from our blog, and this question is about defensive medicine. "Isn't it a big factor leading to over-treatment both at the beginning and at the end of life?"
GUPTA: That's a great question, and, you know, a lot of people talk about malpractice and malpractice reform and doctors behaving differently because of the threat of lawsuits.
First of all, if you just look at lawsuits in total, the numbers really aren't that large. There's only about 11,000 lawsuits a year that are paid out. There's a lot more that are settled, obviously, but the fact of the matter is that if you look at the amount of money that is spent on settling lawsuits or paying for lawsuits, it's really only about two percent of health care expenditure, not that big a number.
But defensive medicine, doctors behaving differently, health care professionals behaving differently, ordering more tests, for example, than may be necessary, one poll that we reported on recently said that nine out of 10 doctors surveyed said they may have ordered some sort of test or performed some sort of procedure because worried about lawsuits. The total cost of that is probably hundreds of billions of dollars a year.
And the blogger is absolutely right. It's seems to be more -- more common at the beginning of life than at the end of life so, cutting down on that would certainly help pay for some of this health care plans.
ROBERTS: Next question this morning, Sanjay, comes from Deb via Twitter. She says, "Sanjay, we heard a lot about rationing health care early in the process." She wants to know is there anything in the bill about rationing health care?
GUPTA: Well, no one is going to put the term "rationing of health care" certainly in a bill or really talk about it in any kind of a formal fashion.
What people are concerned about is this term that makes a lot of people's eyes glaze over. It's called comparative effectiveness. And sort of briefly put it's this idea that, you know, figure out what really works in medicine and what doesn't work and pay for those things that do work. And if you're not sure about something, it may or may not get funded in terms of getting -- physicians getting reimbursed or hospitals getting reimbursed.
Some people will say that's the way we should practice medicine, you know, push towards those things that we know work.
Other people will say, look, medicine is more of an art than a science, and we've got to try new things, even if we're not sure if they work and if you stop funding those things, you know, you may -- you may -- some people may call that rationing.
A lot of people say rationing exists within the system now, as we have talked about for over year now, insurance companies denying claims or dropping people off their plans. So, again, rationing is not a word that's discussed publicly or formally but I think it occurs now for sure.
CHETRY: Ok. Now, last question: "I'm a senior who is worried about my Medicare. Will there be cuts?" This is from Grace in Virginia.
GUPTA: You know, in some ways it depends who you ask. People who look at how this health care plan as a whole will say that a lot of the way that it's getting funded is by looking at inefficiencies in Medicare, looking at fraud in Medicare, which really exists, and trying to stop that and use some of that money to pay for this health care plan.
Seniors have been worried, that look, will that translate into me getting care that's not as good as it is now? Will it translate into doctors not accepting Medicare reimbursement so it will be even harder to find a doctor? Those are real concerns. And this idea that figuring out how doctors and hospitals are going to get paid over the next ten years, that's still a little bit of an open question.
The proponents of the bill will say, look, ultimately this bill is designed to cut down on prescription drug costs for seniors, closing that so-called "doughnut hole", starting with some changes immediately and hopefully closing it completely within the next several years. So it depends a little bit on who you ask with this.
ROBERTS: All right. Sanjay Gupta for us this morning with some great answers; doc, thanks so much.
GUPTA: Anytime guys.
ROBERTS: The vice president, live TV appearances. Is he going to have to be put on a six-second delay? Jeanne Moos is coming up next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: All right. It's time for the "Moost News in the Morning" here on AMERICAN MORNING.
CHETRY: Vice president Joe Biden did it again. A signature slip of the tongue, this time at the signing ceremony of the health care law. Here's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOOS: Amid the big hugs and the big smiles, the thrill of health care victory had everyone fired up. Joe Biden was fired up, all right, lavishing praise on the president.
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've gotten to know you well enough. You want me to stop because I'm embarrassing you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: T minus 10.
MOOS: Actually he's about to embarrass him by dropping a bomb.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.
MOOS: Pardon me? From Joe Biden's lips to the media's ears.
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: He has always had difficulty putting a sock in it.
MOOS: Another excuse for us to trot out the VP's previous bloopers. The time he urged the guy in the wheelchair.
BIDEN: Stand up, chuck. Let them see you.
MOOS: The other day when he referred to the Irish Prime Minister's mother.
BIDEN: God rest her soul and -- although, wait, your mom's still alive. Your dad passed. God bless her soul.
MOOS: Bless his soul for providing us with fodder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every ten minutes there's a shift in sort of what the strategy is.
BIDEN: Who gives a (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
MOOS: This isn't the first time a mike has picked up the VP dropping the "f" bomb. But hey, the previous VP, Dick Cheney, used it in anger telling Senator Patrick Leahy to you know what himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any regrets?
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No. I said it.
MOOS: If the White House regretted Vice President Biden's remark about health care, they weren't letting on. Press Secretary Gibbs tweeted, "And yes, Mr. VP, you're right."
The Vice President's faux pas was such a big frigging deal that within two hours of his utterance, it was already on emblazoned on T- shirts.
The guy really known for salty language is chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, who wouldn't tell on the President when he talked to "60 Minutes".
RAHM EMANUEL, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: But I do not curse in the Oval Office.
KATIE COURIC, CBS ANCHOR: Does he curse?
MOOS: On a day of triumph, once again the curse of Biden strikes in the form of an actual curse.
Jeanne Moos, CNN --
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you, Joe.
MOOS: -- New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: There you go.
ROBERTS: From now on, all presidential live events will be on a six-second delay.
CHETRY: I guess so. One of our tweet peeps on Twitter saying, you know what, we wouldn't have even heard it, neither would our kids, if the media didn't keep replaying it.
It's our fault.
ROBERTS: That's going to wrap it up for us. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you again bright and early tomorrow.
CHETRY: Meanwhile, the news continues right now; "CNN NEWSROOM" with Kyra Phillips. Hi, Kyra.
