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Church Sex Abuse Scandal; Health Reform Anger; What's Happened to Civility in Politics?
Aired March 25, 2010 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Time now for your top-of-the-hour reset. I'm Tony Harris in the CNN NEWSROOM. It's 12:00 on Capitol Hill, where threats and vandalism follow the vote on health care reform.
This hour, what's happened to civility in politics?
It is 5:00 at the Vatican, where there are new denials today. A new report suggests the future pope looked the other way during the church sex abuse scandal.
And it is 8:30 p.m. in Afghanistan, where CNN uncovers new evidence that Iran is freelancing with the Taliban.
Let's do this -- let's get started this hour.
Anger over health care reform boils over into threats and vandalism. Democratic leaders say more than 10 lawmakers have reported trouble since Sunday's vote. They have met with the FBI and Capitol police to discuss their concerns.
Last year, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said not all opponents of reform are to blame.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: All who participated in their free expression should not be painted with the same brush of those who have resorted to such unacceptable language and acts of vandalism. However, we must remove all doubt in anyone's mind that those expressions and those acts of vandalism and those threats of more have no place in a civil debate in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: OK. And just moments ago, Minor Leader John Boehner also condemned the threats and vandalism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: Threats and violence should not be part of a political debate. There are ways for people to channel their anger, and they should do it in a constructive way.
Chuck?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Here's a question. Have we crossed the line here? Is this the end of civility in politics? We will continue the discussion with our panel of guests in about 10 minutes.
Health care reform, part two. Debate over the so-called fixes bill under way again in the Senate. Republicans are expected to offer more amendments today.
Yesterday, they found technical violations in two provisions of the bill. That means it will go back to the House for another vote. The vote is expected by week's end.
Just days after he signed health care reform into law, President Obama hits the road to sell the plan to skeptical Americans. At a speech today in Iowa City, he is expected to discuss how reform affects small businesses and families with children who have pre-existing conditions.
Live coverage of the president's speech in the CNN NEWSROOM at 2:00 p.m. Eastern, 11:00 a.m. Pacific Time.
The Vatican is dismissing New allegations it covered up abuse by a priest in the United States. "The New York Times" is reporting American bishops warned the Vatican years ago about a priest who allegedly molested as many as 200 deaf boys, but the priest was never defrocked. At the time, Pope Benedict XVI was head of the Vatican office that decides whether accused priests are dismissed.
Diana Magnay following the story for us in Rome.
Diana, good to see you.
What are you hearing now from the Vatican?
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony.
Well, what the Vatican is saying is that they were only informed about the abuses that this priest, Lawrence Murphy, allegedly did in 1996, which was more than 20 years after those abuses took place. And the Vatican is saying that it acted appropriately in response to hearing about these abuses in recommending that his ministry be restricted and that he take responsibility for his actions. And four months later that priest actually died.
Now, they say that they took only what would appear to most people to be very minimal repercussions because of his ill health, because he was old, and because -- well, those things. But "The New York Times" has revealed various documents from a civil lawsuit which would suggest that, actually, there were measures in place on the part of the Vatican once they heard of that abuse to try and defrock the priest, to try and rid him of his clerical position. But that Cardinal Ratzinger, upon receiving an actual letter from the priest, a personal letter imploring him to have mercy, decided against that trial. So that is the allegation, that Cardinal Ratzinger at the time, now pope, actually decided against it even though he knew what this man had done -- Tony.
HARRIS: So, Diana, my understanding is that the Archdiocese of Milwaukee has issued a statement. Is that correct?
MAGNAY: They have. They've issued a statement saying that these kinds of abuses cannot take place now. And I'll just read you one line in it.
HARRIS: Sure.
MAGNAY: Most importantly, "Today, no priest with any substantiated allegation of sexual abuse of a minor serves in public ministry in any way in the Archdiocese in Milwaukee."
And they say that the case around this particular priest is well documented. But the fact of the matter is, is that his abuses took place in 1950 to '74 of 200 deaf boys, as you say. And since then, up until it was reported to the Vatican, there were three archbishops who did not report it, who failed to report it to civil authorities either.
And here's another twist, Tony, which is peculiar in this case, is that civil authorities did investigate the priest but decided to drop charges. So a lot of unanswered questions -- Tony.
HARRIS: All right.
Diana Magnay for us in Rome.
Diana, appreciate it. Thank you.
Politics getting nastier. Attacks and even death threats emerging from the health care debate.
What happened to civility? I will talk to a Tea Party chairman, along with the leader of the National Endowment for the Humanities, and a tweeting and blogging Republican consultant in a just a couple of minutes.
You're back in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: All right. Bricks thrown through campaign office windows, threatening letters and phone calls. Democrats in Congress say they are being targeted following Sunday's vote on health care reform.
Details from senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: This motion --
BASH (voice-over): It was anti-abortion Democrat Bart Stupak's 11th- hour deal that gave House Democrats the votes to pass health care.
Listen to some messages on his office voicemail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stupak, you are a lowlife, baby-murdering, scumbag pile of steaming crap. You are a cowardly punk, Stupak.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Think about this. There are millions of people across the country who wish you ill. And all of those thoughts projected on you will materialize into something that's not very good for you.
BASH: And he's gotten faxes like these: images of a noose and a Nazi S.S. insignia.
Stupak is hardly the only Democrat being threatened. Vandalism at the Arizona office of Gabby Giffords, and the New York office of House Rules Chairwoman Louise Slaughter.
REP. LOUISE SLAUGHTER (D), NEW YORK: Someone hurled a brick through the window of my district office in the dark of night.
BASH: Whomever threw that brick is a mystery, but one person encouraging such behavior is known. Mark (sic) Vanderboegh is a popular right-wing extremist. He wrote on his blog last week, "So, if you wish to send a message that Pelosi and her party cannot fail to hear, break their windows. Break them now. Break them and run to break again."
During a radio interview yesterday, Mr. Vanderboegh urged further action.
MIKE VANDERBOEGH, FORMER MILITIA LEADER: I'm advocating broken windows. I'm advocating, I suppose, vandalism.
BASH: House Democrats are now so concerned about security, leaders called an emergency closed-door meeting with the FBI, Capitol police, and sergeant at arms.
(on camera): Do you feel that your members are really at risk in terms of their security?
REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD), MAJORITY LEADER: Yes. I think we have had very serious incidences that have occurred over the last 48, 72 hours.
BASH: So, how are you dealing with that? What actions are you taking?
HOYER: Well, we have -- the Capitol Police just briefed members, if they are in any way suspicious or fearful or see actions occurring, to report those immediately, and the Capitol Police will respond and try to determine whether crimes have been committed.
REP. STEVE DRIEHAUS (D), OHIO: My wife and kids are at home. They're organizing protests in front of my house. We're getting death threats on the telephone. BASH (voice-over): Freshman Democrat Steve Driehaus also voted yes on health care. Before he did, the House minority leader, John Boehner, warned, he may be a dead man. Driehaus blames the GOP leader for stirring up some of the threats against him.
DRIEHAUS: They're engaged in rhetoric that goes well beyond the pale of what's responsible. They're inciting behavior. And I think they should be held responsible for that.
BASH: Boehner declined our interview request to directly respond and, instead, issued a statement: "I know many Americans are angry over this health care bill and that Washington Democrats just aren't listening. But, as I have said, violence and threats are unacceptable." He went on to say, "Go volunteer at a political campaign. Make your voice heard, but let's do it the right way."
Still, Democrats are blaming Republican lawmakers for egging protesters on, maybe over the line, like this over the weekend, when Republican Steve King held up a poster of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, gave her a thumbs-down, and made a slapping motion across her face.
We asked King about that.
(on camera): There was a moment that we have seen. You were up there right on that balcony with a picture of the House speaker, slapping it.
REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: Now, that would be an exaggeration. But this is a melodrama. Keep in mind, this is a melodrama.
BASH: OK. But tell me -- tell me what -- tell me -- tell me what your -- what your goal was with -- with -- with what you did.
KING: My goal is to inspire people to stand up for the Constitution, to stand up for fiscal responsibility, and stand up for the rule of law.
BASH (voice-over): King walked away before we could get him to fully explain what he meant to do, but he did say he condemns any threats of violence.
Dana Bash, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So has it come to this -- are we witnessing the end of civility in politics? Is that a slight overstatement? Let's talk about it and what's fueling all the anger over health care reform.
Joining us to tackle those issues, Mark Skoda, founder and children man of the Memphis Tea Party.
Mark, good to see you.
MARK SKODA, FOUNDER & CHAIRMAN, MEMPHIS TEA PARTY: Thank you.
HARRIS: James Leach, chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities.
James, good to see you.
And Liz Mair, tweeter, blogger and Republican consultant to all of you.
But Liz, let me start with you.
LIZ MAIR, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Sure.
HARRIS: The N-word, anti-gay slurs being yelled at congressmen. "Baby killer" yelled out on the House floor.
What's going on here, in your view? And who, more importantly, gets the blame for this ugliness? I hate to play the blame game, but a little bit of it here.
MAIR: Well, I think what's going on is people are really angry, and I think a lot of people are unfortunately crossing a line. And they shouldn't be doing it.
I think the people who deserve the blame are clearly the people who are saying and doing things that are inappropriate and, in many cases, probably illegal. When we're talking about violence, vandalism, threats, that crosses a legal line, in addition to being in plain old bad taste. And I think that there's a lot that is in plain old bad taste that is going on.
I do think it's important, however, to distinguish that from people making their very, very serious concerns about what has happened known, and vocalizing that in no uncertain terms, you know, and making sure that people understand that. I do think there's a distinction between those two things, and I think it's important to not lump in people who are just ordinarily angry and who are upset about what has been done and want to express that in no uncertain terms with people who are actually crossing a line.
HARRIS: Mark, what's your broad take on this?
SKODA: Well, I think, you know, one of the things -- I do a radio show here in Memphis, and I've been very clear about this idea of, first of all, making the changes at the ballot box, getting people registered. I think, frankly, anyone who crosses the line in suggesting vandalism, or certainly any sort of death threats that may indeed happen, just completely wrong.
And number two, I think the element here, in terms of the leadership that I deal with all over the country, I mean, people are really about getting people out to vote. Yes, they're antagonistic. Yes, they're angry about what took place. And yes, they're not happy about not being listened to.
But I can tell you, the large number of people that I deal with, first of all, they will ostracize anyone who is on the fringes, number one. And they will remove them from their relationship. And second, I think people largely embrace the idea, let's have the revolution, but let's do it in November at the polls.
HARRIS: Yes.
James, your turn. Take a stab at this.
JAMES LEACH, NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE HUMANITIES: Well, there's a lot of reason for anger in America. And only one aspect of it is the health care bill. It became something that reflected that anger.
But there's a real distinction between discourse, A, that goes into violence, but, B, that breaks down people as being referred to as enemies rather than people holding rival ideas. And what we're seeing is, across this country, we're seeing swastikas at California colleges. We're seeing anti-gay bashing. We're seeing members of Congress hit with racial epithets, with homophobic epithets.
These are matters of real judgment for the American people to think through. And so some things are protected under First Amendment rights, but that doesn't mean that they're morally justified.
And we have to think of ourselves as what kind of people are we? Are we one people working together with rival thoughts, or are we enemies within? And I think there's something that's been let loose in the American politics that has to be thought about.
HARRIS: OK.
Mark, let me come back to you.
Conservative radio and television, and its role in all of this, this frenzy that many say was stoked, really, by conservative radio and television, what do you think of it? Do you buy that argument? Was it all about ratings, ad dollars, money being the root of all evil here?
SKODA: Well, I think, look, a lot of the conservative talk radio is about entertainment. You know, one of the things that we try to do, I think, and is sort of in the work that I do, is to have a dialogue.
We get people from both sides of the line questioning about what our country is doing. I think, honestly, at the end of the day, the anger has to be channeled. I think even some --
HARRIS: I think you're right.
SKODA: And some of the things that we're seeing, even on the suggestion that racial epithets have been shouted, I want to see a little subjective evidence, first of all. And we have to go back to remember that we saw people on the House floor like former Murtha, who passed away --
HARRIS: Do you need to see the spit on the face, or what are you talking about objective evidence here? Are you questioning John Lewis? What does that mean?
SKODA: Well, no. I'm suggesting that -- I'm just suggesting that I think in terms of the commentary, there's no evidence of that at this moment in time. I haven't heard it. I've looked at a lot of videos, and I find it just problematic.
I clearly understand, also, the question of whether it's Tea Party people that are engaged in some of this stuff or other people. And we'll have to wait and see.
But I will tell you this much -- very clearly, in terms of all the membership that I'm engaged in, everyone, to a person, says, first of all, we won't accept and tolerate this kind of action by any of our members. And secondly, we will make our voices heard at the polls.
The frustration and anger that we're seeing now post-bill obviously, I think, will settle very quickly. Having said that, we will also wait and see who is, in fact, taking some of these actions. Who are the people that are actually undergoing these kinds of initiatives?
I think when you look at -- when you certainly look at the actions that we've seen thus far, unacceptable. Completely unacceptable.
And I have to tell you that we're even having conference calls around a number of the state leadership. And folks in various organizations say, number one, let's, first of all, make sure we distance ourselves from these actions. And secondly, let us be very clear, very clear that when we take our actions, let's take it by registering people, getting them out to vote and changing Congress at the ballot box.
HARRIS: So you're rethinking this. OK. Then one more question to you.
And guys, I'll bring you back into the discussion in a second here.
Mark, does anyone believe who you are associated with and in the movement that you're a part of that, for example, the sometimes unbelievable characterizations of the president of the United States, a man who is a symbol of great pride for many in this country, a man elected with 53 percent of the vote, that the most extreme -- and I'm clearly talking about extreme here -- caricatures of him made by some Tea Party activists make your opponent, the president, look more reasonable by comparison, even as there is a very serious discussion to be had on expansion of government at this moment in time in our political life?
SKODA: You know, you raise a good point. Look, I like attending the rallies. There's a visceral release there.
But I have to tell you -- and one of the things that I'm very clear about with my organization, the people I speak to, look, you cannot make them look better by making us look bad. The focus really needs to be on attacking the issues.
I will not attack the individual. I will attack the issues all day long and be able to make the case.
And to your point, I would like to see it spooled back, toned down a bit, but focussed on rising up by getting huge amount of numbers of folks out and voting. I think Texas was a good example.
We had a gubernatorial primary that had not seen 1.5 million people turn out in 40 years. That's where the Tea Party movement and the energy can be channeled and make a difference at the ballot box.
So, we're encouraging people and we're working on this across a number of the organizations in the United States who are associated with Tea Party leadership to, one, get a message out that tones these things down, make sure people are responsible. And I think the vast majority, the vast majority of people share this view.
HARRIS: And Liz, let me have you jump in on this.
What happens with the anger, the visceral anger that's out there? And it's palpable. It's real. How does that get channeled?
MAIR: Well, hopefully it gets channeled constructively. I mean, as we've discussed during this panel, hopefully that gets channeled into people who perhaps right now are not registered to vote actually going and registering to vote.
People who are registered to vote actually going and voting and making their voices heard at the ballot box. And also ordinary citizen engagement.
I mean, people can show up at protests and they can make their voices heard. But, you know, I think as plenty of Republicans in elected office who have said, it's very important that if people feel strongly that the country is headed in the wrong direction, that they go and they actually volunteer for people that they believe in, people who they think are going to take it in the right direction. I think that's very important.
HARRIS: Liz, let me jump in here for just a second, because we've got Eric Cantor. He is speaking right now. And let's listen to him on this whole topic of threats and vandalism following Sunday's health care vote.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
REP. ERIC CANTOR (R), MINORITY WHIP: -- never be treated that way.
To use such threats as political weapons is reprehensible. I'm not naive enough to think that letters, statements or press releases will prevent anyone disturbed enough to commit violence from acting. But I do know that such letters, statements and press releases can very easily fan the flames. By ratcheting up the rhetoric, some will only inflame these situations to dangerous levels.
Enough is enough. It has to stop. We need to move forward and get back to addressing the important issues facing our nation and let law enforcement handle these situations.
Thank you.
HARRIS: All right. Just before we -- and Jenny (ph), help me with this. Just before we got to Eric Cantor -- and the panel, I'll have you listen to this as well -- we're understanding -- is the understanding that Eric Cantor actually blamed the head of the DNC, Tim Kaine for -- for what? Someone tell me.
For fanning the flames. OK. That's part of the statement that we missed.
But James, if you would, respond to the part of the statement that we all heard. And what did you think of it?
LEACH: Well, the context to which I heard it, Congressman Cantor was saying let's lower the rhetoric.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEACH: And I thought that was very appropriate. If he said other things, I didn't hear. But what I heard was extremely appropriate.
HARRIS: I thought that was -- I agree with you on that.
And let me go by the panel -- sweep by the panel one more time.
Liz, final comments on this subject?
MAIR: Yes. Ultimately, people need to behave themselves. People need to behave in a dignified fashion and they need to respect the law. I mean, it's really as simple as that.
You know, if you have strong objections to what has been done, make your voice heard. But do it within the parameters of law and good taste.
HARRIS: Yes.
And Mark, final thoughts from you?
SKODA: Yes, I agree. I think -- and we've been share that message from the very beginning of our efforts.
I will also say, at the end of the day, there is no place for any kind of threats in this movement or in our government. And frankly, I do find, as Eric Cantor said, it to be reprehensible. So I am glad we're coming out of this issue, and I'm very pleased to say that as a leadership, we're very clear about this. So we appreciate the panel of opportunity.
HARRIS: Terrific panel. Thank you all so much.
SKODA: Thank you.
HARRIS: Mark, James, Liz, appreciate it.
We will bring you a bit of the fuller context of the comments from Representative Cantor in just a couple minutes. Terrific panel. Thank you all very much.
Let's take a quick break. We're back in a moment.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK. The stimulus is paying for what? For lobbying?
Millions of dollars going to help lobby to raise prices on some things the government doesn't want you even consuming.
Let's go to Josh Levs now.
Josh, what in the world is going on here? What is this about?
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I didn't see this coming. Did you see that coming?
HARRIS: I did not see this coming.
LEVS: Yes, they're using it for lobbying.
You know, we have found some interesting things after we spent a couple months now piecing through the stimulus. This -- I didn't think I could still be surprised. This is really striking.
The CDC distributed millions of dollars to support efforts around the country -- nutrition, physical activity and tobacco control. And some of it is going to lobbying efforts on a state level.
Here's an example. Delaware got a million bucks there to -- it's called "Educate leaders and decision-makers about the benefits of increasing the price on other tobacco products such as cigars and smokeless tobacco to equal the price on cigarettes." Short version there, to help lobby, to help push for them to do now.
Oregon now. They got $3 million, and it includes money for a counter- advertising campaign targeted to vulnerable Oregonians, they say. And also funds to support a policy proposal to increase tobacco price, which means kind of pushing for taxes so that the price of tobacco, various products, will ultimately be higher.
That's just a couple of examples there, Tony.
There's also New York. They got $284,000 toward something similar. They're saying educating leaders to promote a ban there on trans fat.
And one more note on this. Wisconsin is an interesting example because there, the health department had discussed this idea of trying to use some stimulus money to lobby for a statewide ban on certain kinds of chewing tobacco that had flavors -- like candy and fruit flavors. And they decided not to, Tony, because they decided that they don't think it was appropriate to use stimulus money in that particular way. And one more thing here.
To be fair, there's also programs that aren't about this kind of lobbying thing. This is one from Colorado, $1.2 million there for programs including increasing awareness of problems from too much sodium. And also projects to reduce the consumption of sugar- sweetened beverages. Basically, they're spending money for projects to get you to drink less soda, trying to get you healthier.
And I will tell you, we have spoken with health officials repeatedly about the stimulus. They say no money is being wasted. They say this money is going to health projects that they believe will work and improve the health of Americans that peer review systems chose.
So, Tony, that's where they stand on all this.
HARRIS: Amazing stuff. The surprises, if you continue to dig and dig and dig and dig.
LEVS: I didn't see that coming. But you know what? They're saying it will help on a state level to push lawmakers to raise some prices of some stuff. Let's see what happens.
HARRIS: All right, Josh. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
LEVS: All right. Thanks, Tony.
HARRIS: You know, with gold prices near historic highs, a lot of us are sorting through jewelry boxes and under couch cushions looking for those forgotten pieces of the precious metal. But here's the thing -- if you're thinking about mailing in your gold for cash, you may be disappointed or downright infuriated.
CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow shows us why.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can get cash for this gold medallion of me wearing a gold medallion.
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM (voice-over): Their ads are pervasive, but some cash for gold customers say they're getting a raw deal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they slap you in a face with an absurd amount --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A golden opportunity to be fleeced.
HARLOW (on camera): You know, there are just a lot of people that are selling their gold right now. And there are some people that say they're getting ripped off.
There's actually a class action lawsuit against Cash 4 Gold right now, and they invited us down to their headquarters here in Florida. So we came. And we can't show you the outside of the building for security reasons, but we really wanted to come in and see exactly what was going on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll make sure that everything here is what I received.
HARLOW (voice-over): The gold is tested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just simply just scratch lightly.
HARLOW: Appraised.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We add it up.
HARLOW: An offer is made and customers have 12 days to decide whether or not to accept it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That will get about 1,800 degrees.
HARLOW: If they do, their gold is melted down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We melt constantly.
HARLOW: But Consumer Reports find mail-in companies, including Cash4Gold, sometimes pay out as little as 11 percent of the gold's value.
HARLOW (on camera): I think some concerns are whether they're valid or not. That maybe more gold is getting processed here that someone sent in than they're getting paid for.
JEFF ARONSON, CEO, CASH4GOLD: I know exactly what comes in is weighed up, is -- a value is assigned to it right from the computer. My people don't make more money off of it.
HARLOW (voice-over): Cash4Gold says it pays 20 to 80 percent of the gold's value. But that's not what Frank Poindexter claims he got.
FRANK POINDEXTER, CASH4GOLD CUSTOMER: About a week and a half, I think, after I sent the package off to them with the gold in it, I received a check.
HARLOW (on camera): How much for? How much was the check for?
POINDEXTER: I was astounded. It was for 15 cents.
HARLOW: Fifteen cents.
POINDEXTER: Fifteen cents.
HARLOW (voice-over): Fifteen cents for what he says was more than a dozen pieces of gold, appraised at roughly $200. But Cash4Gold's internal documentation says just this single gold earring was in Frank's packet.
HARLOW (on camera): Are you saying he lied to you?
ARONSON: I'm just telling you the facts. HARLOW (voice-over): In the end, Cash4Gold settle with Frank for $150.
HARLOW (on camera): And, you know, Frank Poindexter is not alone. He's joining that lawsuit against Cash4Gold, which alleges, among other things, that the company sometimes melts down the gold before the 12-day return period has ended and sometimes blames the post office for losing items in the mail.
ARONSON: The class action is meritless. There are three named complainants on the class action suit. Three.
HARLOW (voice-over): After numerous complaints about several companies, New York Democrat Anthony Weiner introduced the Gold Act, pushing for more stringent regulation of the industry on a national scale.
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: Basically, when you put that gold in that envelope, you're sending it off to the wild west.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: All right, Tony, if that Gold Act becomes law, it would require consumers accept the offer before any of their gold is melted down. It would fine companies that don't comply. It would also mandate that if a company sends any jewelry back to the consumer, they have to insure it at the same value that the consumer did when they mailed it in. Right now, Tony, you've got stricter regulations in Florida as a result of a law that took place in October. Cash4Gold, as you know, says it helped create that law, Tony.
But let's talk about protecting consumers. Here's what you must do if you're going to sell your gold because it's very valuable. You've got to shop around. Take it to a lot of different stores, get a lot of offers before you sell. Know what your gold is worth. If you have 14 karat gold, that's only (ph) 50 percent gold, versus 24 karat gold, which is pure. You've got to do your research, Tony. That's the bottom line.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: That is. And, you know, and, folks, please pay attention. Get to cnnmoney.com and take a look at this because this is a tough economy. Folks are trying to figure out ways to -- and don't get yourself ripped off.
Poppy, appreciate it. Thank you.
Out of work baby boomers are really feeling the sting in these difficult times.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL CALABRESE, UNEMPLOYED DRAFTSMAN: I've had one phone interview and I haven't even had a sit-down interview with a perspective employer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Boy, a draftsman shares his story of being laid off long before he is ready to hit the rocking chair. That story is next in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: You know, the number of Americans claiming unemployment benefits for the first time fell last week to the lowest level in six weeks. The government says there were 442,000 initial jobless claims. Down 14,000 from the previous week. And continuing a trend, we've been seeing over the past year, baby boomers who are not ready for retirement are losing their jobs in big numbers in this recession. Now they're dipping into their shrinking nest eggs just to pay the bills. Here's one man's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAUL CALABRESE, UNEMPLOYED DRAFTSMAN: This is a roller. A big roller.
HARRIS (voice-over): Paul Calabrese lights up enthusiastically, describing his life's work in the textile business.
P. CALABRESE: And this wire is wrapped around the outside. You have another roll over here.
HARRIS: Paul spent 40 years as a draftsman designing thousands of versions of what's called metallic cloth. That's a piece of metal essential to mass manufacturing textiles. And he's passionate about it.
P. CALABRESE: That's the kind of drawing I used to do. It made -- that's what the wire is. And there was all different kinds of geometry on it.
HARRIS: But those days are behind him now.
He was laid off more than a year ago after the company he worked at for 16 and a half years shut down.
P. CALABRESE: I sent out probably a couple hundred applications. I've had one phone interview and I haven't even had a sit-down interview with a perspective employer yet.
HARRIS: Paul counts the weeks of unemployment.
P. CALABRESE: This is week 55.
HARRIS: Paul is a casualty of South Carolina's devastating recession. And 12.6 percent of the population is unemployed. The fourth highest rate in the country.
P. CALABRESE: You know, it's just not me. There's thousands of people in this area that have lost their jobs. Textiles is just practically nonexistent now.
HARRIS: Paul is 62 years old, making this recession even more challenging. Many of the jobs he's competing for require an engineering degree. But Paul is old school. He learned drafting in trade school. P. CALABRESE: A lot of these jobs, they want a -- they're looking for engineering type people with degrees. I've got two diplomas. I don't have any degrees.
HARRIS: Paul is eligible for early retirement. But, for him, it is not an option.
P. CALABRESE: When people take early retirement, like if I took it at 62, and then if I got a full-time job, then you start getting penalized. You're only allowed to make so much.
HARRIS: Besides the money, Paul says he's not ready for the rocking chair just yet. He's still got a lot of work left in him.
P. CALABRESE: I was always used to contributing. I had ideas, you know. And I did work. I contributed. And I made -- I made a product. And at the end of the day, I said, well, I had a good day. I helped to make this or I helped to make that. Now I don't have that any more.
HARRIS: Paul's wife, Mary, is the sole breadwinner now, working a low- paying clerical job. The couple is now dipping into their small nest egg just to pay day-to-day bills. They live very modestly.
MARY CALABRESE, PAUL'S WIFE: At our age when we're supposed to be making, you know, a little bit more money so we can put it away and to live a little -- not extravagant, but comfortable. You know, we're going the other way.
HARRIS: Mary is the psychological savior for her struggling husband.
M. CALABRESE: Well, I tell him just be positive. That God will take care of us. And you're doing everything you can.
HARRIS: But sometimes her husband is inconsolable.
P. CALABRESE: I just start thinking about it and I toss and turn. I don't sleep well anymore.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: One family's story. More than 2 million workers aged 55 and up were unemployed and looking for work last month. That is the greatest number for that age group since the Department of Labor began keeping records.
Weapons used to kill American troops in Afghanistan. Are they coming from Iran? We will look at some new evidence that points fingers directly at Tehran.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: All right, let's get you caught up on top stories now.
The health care battle drags on. The Senate, today, debating more amendments to the so-called House fixes plan. So far, Republicans have found two procedurals problems in the bill and that means it heads back to the House for another vote.
Osama bin Laden is believed to be behind a new terror threat. An audio message reportedly from the al Qaeda leader threatens retaliation against Americans if the U.S. executes Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. He is the self-described mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks.
Fact or fiction, Iran is giving the Taliban key support as the group battles American troops in Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These images are from the Afghan police's video evidence file of weapons they say they've intercepted on their way to the Taliban. This is the first time they've ever been shown.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Tehran denies it, but evidence shows Iranian weapons are ending up in the hands of the Taliban. We will see that evidence firsthand next in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: You know, tens of thousands of American troops put their lives on the line every single day in Afghanistan as they battle the Taliban. Now there is more evidence the Taliban are getting weapons and support from Iran. CNN's Nima Elbagir saw some of that evidence as she traveled to the Afghan/Iranian border. Here's her report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Afghanistan's border with Iran. These remote mountain passes give cover to thousands of smugglers. And they've become a pipeline for weaponry, funneled to the Taliban from Iran.
ELBAGIR (on camera): The Afghan border with Iran is almost 1,000 kilometers long and it's incredibly difficult to police. Just behind me, through that mountain pass, is one of the main smuggling routes into Afghanistan. It's less than 10 kilometers from the official border crossing. And it's becoming a lifeline for the Taliban.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): The international community has often claimed that the Iranians are supporting the Taliban. But it's extremely difficult to track down the evidence. The Afghans aren't comfortable talking about arms smuggling publicly, but they have been filming it.
These images are from the Afghan police's video evidence file of weapons they say they've intercepted on their way to the Taliban. This is the first time they've ever been shown.
Plastic explosives, hand grenades, phone cards and propaganda booklets, and rows and rows of the mines used in roadside attacks against international forces. They all display serial numbers in Persian. Proof, say Afghan police sources, that they came from Iran's state-run weapon's factories.
According to Afghan government internal reports, over the last 12 months, 10.5 tons of weaponry was intercepted coming across the border. Sixty percent of the arms, they say, came directly from the Iranian government. We visited the Islam Alah (ph) border crossing on the Afghan/Iranian border in Hirat (ph). A province with centuries old cultural and economic ties with Iran. Just this month, in one of their largest hauls to date, authorities here claim to have intercepted over a ton and a half of weaponry. And there's no way of knowing exactly how many smugglers are slipping through the authority's net.
Every 10 days intercepted weapons are sent to the ministry of defense in Kabul as evidence, but the containers storing them are never empty for long.
ELBAGIR (on camera): So where are those from? Where is this from?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iran.
ELBAGIR: This is Iranian? What is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a mortar, 122mm.
ELBAGIR: How does he know it's Iranian? Are there any markings on it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know it is Iranian because of the writings on it. Also, we send them away to be checked. To make sure.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): Off camera, his commanding officer is upset that the soldier has identified the weapons to us as Iranian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't say that. She asked me before and I didn't answer. So you shouldn't now.
ELBAGIR: The Afghan authorities are clearly nervous about making direct accusations against Iran. But some officials are ready to voice their frustration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, (through translator): Today you see for yourselves what we have discovered. All the international monitors have seen it. You yourself can check to see which country has made it. Check the marks on the weapons and the type and go and tell the world.
ELBAGIR (on camera): We've actually been given access to two pieces of evidence of the Iranian support to the Taliban. Here you've got a Russian missile. And this is a roadside bomb. It's Iranian made. You can see the serial number here is written in Persian.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): Afghan officials told us the Russian missile was evidence that Iran was also buying weapons from Russia to send on to the Taliban. In a statement, Iranian representatives said these allegations were fabricated to divert attention from the damage created by foreign forces in Afghanistan.
But the British government claims that Iran is playing a dangerous double game. In one of its strongest statements to date, the foreign office said, "at the same time as supporting the legitimate Afghan government, Iran is undermining it by providing weapons and training for the Taliban. Iranian support for the Taliban is totally unacceptable and undermines any international confidence in Iran's good faith. It's not the behavior of a responsible neighbor."
We traveled from the western border to Kundus (ph) in the northeast of Afghanistan, where we met a senior Taliban leader. He assisted an anonymity, but told us that the Taliban were increasingly reliant on the Iranian border.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Day by day the Iranian border becomes more important for us. As you know, now in Pakistan, there are many problems for the Taliban. The Pakistanis are imprisoning many of us. The Pakistani boarder is more and more closed now.
ELBAGIR: Shiite Iran has never had much time for the hard line Sunni/Taliban movement, but it does want a place in the negotiating table over Afghanistan's future. Western officials are convinced the Islamic Republic is attempting a delicate balancing act, providing the Taliban with just enough support to bog down international forces and the Afghan government in a war of attrition.
Nima Elbagir, CNN, the Afghan/Iranian border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Time to take a look at some of the stories getting a lot of attention on the web today. What folks are talking about. Ines Ferre joining me.
What's hot today?
INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK. Well, first one, FaceBook.
HARRIS: You're starting with Gaga?
FERRE: Not yet. Not yet.
HARRIS: All right. OK.
FERRE: Relax. Relax. Lady Gaga's coming.
HARRIS: All right.
FERRE: OK. So mystery monkey of Tampa Bay. This is good, Tony. Forty-three thousand fans on FaceBook -- on this FaceBook page for this mystery monkey. This actually grew out of a news report a year ago with this monkey being sighted all over Florida. In solidarity, somebody created a FaceBook page. Personal interests include screeching at the top of my lungs and a nice agruber (ph) sandwich.
HARRIS: Really?
FERRE: Yes. Yes, screeching at the top of your lungs.
HARRIS: Wow. All right.
FERRE: Forty-three thousand fans on this monkey's page.
HARRIS: Are we going to get to Gaga now?
FERRE: Yes, OK. All right. All right.
HARRIS: Done with the monkey already. Can we get to Gaga?
FERRE: Gaga, Gaga. All right. So, yes, let's talk about Lady Gaga. At cnn.com, well, she -- her career has took another hit. Has another hit. According to a list called the 100 Million Club, which includes all web videos that have received over 100 million views. Gaga has three videos on this list.
HARRIS: That's right.
FERRE: And they've collectively reached one billion views.
HARRIS: Three videos. So probably that "Paparazzi" song, right? That would probably be in that mix. And "Let's Dance." That would be a part of that mix. And "Bad Romance." And then there's that one with -- with all the controversy, right? I mean the prison video and
FERRE: Yes, yes. That one -- that one's not listed on there as far
HARRIS: That's not on the it's not on the list.
FERRE: But, I mean, that one's been getting so many views, right?
HARRIS: Well, suppose we all
FERRE: Have you looked at it?
HARRIS: Yes, it's supposed to be
FERRE: No, you haven't looked at it yet?
HARRIS: Well, it's supposed to be really controversial, right, because of some of the images in it. I've watched it about 250 times. I don't know what the fuss is all about.
FERRE: No, you just keep going. Play it again.
HARRIS: I just -- you know, all right. Is that it? Are we done?
FERRE: That's it. That's a wrap.
HARRIS: I've made a total fool of myself. We can go on now.
FERRE: You just love Lady Gaga.
HARRIS: Yes. Thanks, Ines.
FERRE: You're welcome.
HARRIS: Sounding off on health care. We are listening to what you have to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I approve of the health care bill. I'm glad it passed. It's a long time coming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to save us money, no question about it, because those who can afford to contribute to whatever level they can will be able to instead of being carried by all of those who are now buying policies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not in favor of this bill. This president lied when he said he would not mandate a health care bill. Now we're having another payment that we have to pay.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Time to turn over the keys to the mothership to the man. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ali Velshi.
