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Nancy Grace
Police in Newburgh Wait for Positive ID on Child`s Body
Aired March 25, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Newburgh. A 4-year-old little boy vanishes from his own home, Mommy at work, the live-in baby- sitting when the little boy goes missing without a trace 1:00 PM, broad daylight. A tip leads police, cadaver dogs to the body of a 4-year-old boy stuffed in a duffel bag, wooded area just two blocks from the missing boy`s own home.
Bombshell tonight. After an exhaustive 100-day search by land, by air, by water, spanning the city of Newburgh and the Hudson River, tonight we are standing by for autopsy results and a positive ID on the little body. The person of interest, Mommy`s 30-year-old live-in, who was already arrested for beating Mommy`s 14-month-old until he had contusions and a lacerated spleen. What does Mommy do? She leaves her 4-year-old alone with him.
Now the 4-year-old`s dead, and tonight we learn Mommy still has regular phone dates with him from behind bars. When asked about his part in the 4-year-old boy found in the duffel bag, she stands by her man, refusing to comment, saying she doesn`t want to be criticized. Hello? Is there any way Mommy can go to jail, too?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An autopsy was conducted today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At this point, logic dictates that our investigation will take us, unfortunately, right to Mr. Byrd.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After months of searching...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not prepared for this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remains were, in fact, of a decomposed male child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is, like, the worst day of my life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cause and manner of death of that child is pending, awaiting results of blood, tissue and toxicological examinations.
GRACE: A 4-year-old boy found in a duffel bag...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would absolutely say he`s a person of interest.
GRACE: Mommy knows the live-in has a criminal history of attacks on children.
CHRISTINA BOOKAL, MARC`S MOTHER: He has a good relationship with Marc.
GRACE: You left your son alone with a man that has a history of beating a child.
BOOKAL: It wasn`t a history of beating a child, it was reckless endangerment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christina Bookal is a good mom.
GRACE: You`re telling me she`s a good mom? She left the boy with the man that nearly killed her other child!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cory Byrd is in custody, serving 15 months on a probation violation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has thus far refused to speak to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight. After an exhaustive 100-day search by land, by air, by water, spanning the city of Newburgh and the Hudson River, tonight we stand by for autopsy results and the positive ID of a little body in a duffel bag.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remains of a child`s body have been found in the woods just blocks from his Newburgh home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body was secreted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remains hidden in a duffel bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chopper 12 was overhead as the discovery was made in these woods, which Newburgh police have searched before. Now investigators want to know if the body was moved here in the last few months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think it was recently put there and deliberately concealed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will attempt to examine the surrounding brush and dirt that the body was found on to try to determine if we can put a timeframe (INAUDIBLE) when that body was put there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Byrd still remains a person of interest by police.
GRACE: The mother, defending the live-in, Cory Byrd, last known to be with this little boy alive.
He`s got a history of beating her children.
Why do you believe that he has nothing to do with the disappearance of this 4-year-old baby boy?
BOOKAL: If he was being abused or whatever, he would not go to that person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This woman has been traumatized. I`ve been to her house. Her other children are well kept. The room is tidy.
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wait!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The house is clean. She`s a concerned...
GRACE: Well kept?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know what, Nancy...
GRACE: If she`s a good mom...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not here to defend her. I`m here to say that...
GRACE: Well, you just did!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... she gets up in the morning...
GRACE: You just did!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you know what, Nancy? She goes...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will pursue every investigative avenue that we have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Rupa Mikkilineni, standing by there in Newburgh, where the body was found, the child`s body found stuffed in a duffel bag. Rupa, what`s the latest?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, we`re here in Newburgh, New York, where we`re awaiting tonight the results of the autopsy which was conducted today. We are still awaiting the manner of death and as well as the cause of death, which police have not released yet. We`re also awaiting test results, DNA test results, which will 100 percent confirm the identity of the little boy.
GRACE: OK, this is something I don`t understand. Let me go out to Doyle Murphy, reporter with "The Times Herald-Record." Doyle, you`ve covered so many cases, you and I both know that a positive ID can be made from dental records. What, did this mother never take the 4-year-old to the dentist? They don`t have dental records to compare?
DOYLE MURPHY, "TIMES HERALD-RECORD": Talking to the police today, they said they don`t have any dental records. They said that it`s not uncommon for, you know, a child that young. They don`t have fingerprint records. So they don`t have anything to match it to right now.
GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Robert Cartwright, an expert in his field, pediatrician, just what we need tonight. Doctor, thank you for being with us. When children are born, they don`t take fingerprints, they take a footprint, correct?
DR. ROBERT C. CARTWRIGHT, PEDIATRICIAN: That`s right.
GRACE: And where is that recorded?
CARTWRIGHT: It`s generally just for a parents to have a record of the birth. It actually is not typically recorded in any official medical record. It`s really just something more for -- more for fun, actually, so -- and typically, the quality of those footprints aren`t well -- you know, aren`t good enough then to use...
GRACE: Dr. Cartwright...
CARTWRIGHT: ... in forensic...
GRACE: Dr. Cartwright, please. No offense. I`m very familiar with all of your degrees, all of your honors and your awards that you`ve gotten, which are many. But frankly, if you can get a fingerprint off a Coke can or a sliding glass door, believe me, a print taken in ink in the hospital would suffice.
So Doyle Murphy, have they thought of comparing the print taken on the foot as a baby to the print on the body, or has Mommy lost that?
MURPHY: I`ve not heard anything about a footprint. I don`t know what condition the body was in when they found it. Police haven`t said anything about that, so...
GRACE: Well...
MURPHY: ... I don`t know what`s possible at this point.
GRACE: Actually, Doyle, you`re right.
Back to Dr. Cartwright. Dr. Cartwright, this child went missing around December 14. Now, granted, there was a great deal of ice and snow, which is what hindered police from searching this area sufficiently the first time. At this point, the body would likely be so degenerated, they couldn`t make even a fingerprint ID. Wouldn`t you assume that most of the soft tissue is gone?
CARTWRIGHT: Well, it really does depend on what temperature the body existed in over the last few months. I think if the body were in a duffel bag, rodents and other creatures couldn`t get to the body to help decompose the process -- help the decomposition process. So it is possible, if the body is really frozen, that there might be some actual remains that could be used.
GRACE: Got it. Back to Rupa Mikkilineni, there on the scene in Newburgh, where the little body was found stuffed in a duffel bag. Rupa, have they made a connection as to the bag the body is stuffed into to anybody? They can`t get a print off of it? They can`t -- there`s not a name on the inside of it? There`s not fibers matching up to the carpet fibers in the apartment?
MIKKILINENI: Nancy, right now, police are not confirming that the body was even found in a bag officially. But we have from our sources who`ve spoken to the mother that the book bag the body was found in, it was either a book bag or a duffel bag -- and she was shown a photo, and she says it resembles a book bag that used to be in her house.
GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Everybody, we are taking your calls live. We are standing by this evening there at the scene where a little tiny body was found stuffed into a duffel bag. Police unofficially believe it is the body of 4-year-old Marc Anthony Bookal. We covered his disappearance here last December. He went missing December 14. Mommy left him at home with the live-in.
Dr. Bethany, take a look at these photos. This is Marc Anthony Bookal. And there is footage of police at the crime scene, cordoning it off after this gruesome discovery. This is what I know. Back in `98, Mommy left her 14-month-old at home with this man, the live-in, Cory Byrd. The baby ended up in the emergency room with a fractured skull, several contusions, broken ribs, perforated liver. His explanation was he left to go buy pot. And he came back, the child was choking and he gave him the Heimlich. All right, many doctors told me that is absolutely impossible.
So what does Mommy do after he nearly killed the 14-month-old? She leaves this 4-year-old alone with the same live-in, slung up at the house all day long. And now the baby`s dead. We caught up and found out today that Mommy is still having regular phone dates with this guy from behind bars. He`s behind bars on a probation violation. And she will not comment on her opinion as to his involvement in this. She says she doesn`t want to be criticized. She`s standing by her man. Help me, Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: As hard as it is to imagine, I wouldn`t be surprised if she has malice towards her own child, if she resents the child, if she felt historically (ph) like the child was interfering in her love relationship with her boyfriend, and if many times she watched her boyfriend denigrate the child, beat the child, encourage her to not feed the child, and she became confused and she thought that the child was the bad one and that the beloved boyfriend...
GRACE: Whoa! Wait! Wait!
MARSHALL: ... was the good one.
GRACE: Wait! Wait! Wait! This is a woman in her 30s. These children are hers, her duty, her joy, her obligation to take care of. And did I just hear Dr. Bethany Marshall say she got confused and thought the baby was the bad guy?
MARSHALL: Pathologically confused. Nancy, isn`t that what you`ve seen?
GRACE: What is that?
MARSHALL: Pathologically confused...
GRACE: She`s not crazy!
MARSHALL: Well...
GRACE: She`s not confused! She knew who the live-in is that she sleeps with, versus the baby that she gave birth to!
MARSHALL: It does not rise to the level of mental illness, but it`s a personality disorder, Nancy, and the confusion...
GRACE: Bethany, I`ve always respected you up until right now!
MARSHALL: Nancy, all the research...
GRACE: That mother is not confused!
MARSHALL: Hang on. All the research says that when a parent abuses the child, the parent feels the child is unconditionally bad. That is the mindset towards the child. And we can`t just say that he felt the child was unconditionally bad. She probably felt the child was bad, too, and she had malice herself.
GRACE: You know what? Never mind, Bethany! I wish I hadn`t even asked you because I don`t care what she felt! She left him alone with this man, and now he`s dead! The baby is dead!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These remains were located in a wooded area off of South Colden (ph) Street in the southeast corner of the city. This area is approximately one quarter of a mile away from where Marc went missing. The body appeared to have been purposefully concealed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sad ending to a desperate search for 4-year- old Marc Bookal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A state police cadaver dog team located what have been confirmed to be human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cadaver dogs finding what appears to be a child`s human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are consistent with those of a small child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s my baby!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy disappeared from his home in Newburgh while being watched by his mother`s boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s basically saying that the little guy vanished. He turns his head and turns around, and he`s gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cory Byrd claims the 4-year-old wandered away from the house. Earlier that morning, the two were seen on surveillance video at a nearby bodega.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sources say the body of the little 4-year-old was purposely concealed in a duffel bag.
GRACE: Well, we`ve got a body, a 4-year-old boy`s body, two blocks from his home. That tells me a family member, a neighbor, somebody on the inside did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Earlier this year, Marc Bookal suffered burns to his hands, which his mother claims was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has an extensive criminal background, and part of the background does include violence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Department of Corrections says Byrd has served time for an incident that caused serious injury to a child.
GRACE: Why do you believe that he has nothing to do with the disappearance of this 4-year-old baby boy?
BOOKAL: He has a good relationship with Marc.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: When I think of that 4-year-old, that photo we just showed you of him sitting up in the bed with his little fingers all in bandages from where he had been burned, God in heaven only knows what these children have been through, what hell their lives have been because of living with Mommy and her boyfriend, Cory Byrd!
We are taking your calls live. I want to go back to Doyle Murphy with "The Times-Herald" standing by there in Newburgh where the little body was found stuffed in a duffel bag. Doyle, give me in a nutshell, what was Cory Byrd`s timeline of what happened when little Marc Anthony Bookal went missing, the 4-year-old little boy.
MURPHY: Well, as I understand it, it was about 1:00 PM, and he allowed him to go outside to go to an aunt`s house. Apparently, this had happened, you know, countless times before. And when he goes to check on him 10 minutes later or so, he`s not at the aunt`s house. He`s not anywhere. This is the story that he told police.
GRACE: And that`s the end of the story. He walks out around, you said, 1:30 to go on his own, a 4-year-old, to the aunt`s house, and he`s never seen again.
MURPHY: That`s it. Disappeared off the block, apparently.
GRACE: Rupa, is that your understanding of Cory Byrd`s timeline?
MIKKILINENI: Nancy, yes, it is. The timeline is correct. There are a few more details, since I did speak with Christina Bookal, who spoke with Cory Byrd after he was arrested. And the story he gave her was -- well, first of all, little Marc got sick that day, had a stomach ailment, and didn`t go to school. So Cory Byrd...
GRACE: Says who?
MIKKILINENI: ... stayed home and...
GRACE: Uh! Uh! Uh! Says who?
MIKKILINENI: Says the mother.
GRACE: Who says he`s sick?
MIKKILINENI: Says the mother. She knew he stayed home.
GRACE: How do I know he hadn`t already been beaten? Did anybody -- well, they did see him at the bodega, correct?
MIKKILINENI: Exactly, at 10:00 o`clock. There`s video surveillance.
GRACE: OK. OK. Go ahead.
MIKKILINENI: And both were in a great mood. Yes. So, now, what Cory Byrd tells Christina Bookal, the mother, is that she -- that he was watching television and Marc wanted to go visit his aunt, who lives right literally next door and just a few yards away. So he said, Wait for me and I will take you over there to your aunt`s. And then the next thing he knew, he looked up -- he got caught up in a television program, looked up, the back door was open, Marc was gone. And this is about 1:00 o`clock that he called the police.
GRACE: It was 46 degrees outside, and he let the boy just go outside to walk to the aunt`s.
MIKKILINENI: That`s what it looks like.
GRACE: And he got caught up in a TV show at 1:00 o`clock? What would that have been? What TV show was so important, a soap opera, that he couldn`t watch the boy?
MIKKILINENI: Well, the way that the house is set up, Nancy, it`s a two-story house, and you walk in through the front door, through the upper -- onto the upper level. Then you go downstairs, which is where all the bedrooms are, including the master bedroom and the children`s rooms. And I got a tour of the home, and the master bedroom is where Cory Byrd says he was sitting on the bed or laying on the bed watching television. And the back door...
GRACE: So wa-wait, wa-wait. That leads me to my next question. Did he work, or did he just lay there on the bed all day watching TV?
MIKKILINENI: Nancy, we`re not sure if he worked, but that day he was not working, and he was looking after Marc.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Preliminary examination of those remains indicates that they are consistent with those of a small child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement reportedly finding the remains in a wooded patch of land just blocks from Marc`s house. Who`s responsible for the murder of a cute and innocent 4-year-old boy?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marc disappeared while in the care of Cory Byrd, his mother`s live-in boyfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chopper 12 was overhead as the discovery was made Wednesday afternoon in these woods, which Newburgh police have searched before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This area is approximately one quarter of a mile away from where Marc went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now investigators want to know if the body was moved here in the last few months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body appeared to be purposefully concealed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Logic dictates that our investigation will take us, unfortunately, right to Mr. Byrd.
MIKKILINENI: We`re here at the home of little Marc Bookal. Four- year-old little Marc went missing at 1:00 PM from his home, this home that he shared with his mother, his mother`s boyfriend, Cory Byrd, and his three siblings, a sister and two brothers. And this is the door, the back door, that leads to an alley, which is what the mother`s boyfriend says was wide open when he realized that Marc had gone missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Rupa Mikkilineni, standing by on the scene where a 4-year-old`s body has found stuffed in a duffel bag. Rupa, when you went on a tour of the home where the child was last seen alive, that we know of, you spoke to the mother. At that time, what, if anything, did she say about the live-in`s involvement in the child`s disappearance and now death?
MIKKILINENI: She was distraught that day, Nancy. The day that I visited with her, it was the day after her son had gone missing. She was crying. She was distraught. When any kind of suspicious question was raised about Cory Byrd, she was very defensive. She claims that he had a good relationship with her son and that he would never do anything to hurt her son.
GRACE: And isn`t it true, Rupa, you told me that she also said she couldn`t understand why everyone was scrutinizing him.
MIKKILINENI: Yes. She said the police were very, very focused on him. She got that impression, that feeling, that they thought he had done something. And she felt that the focus should be on finding her son, not pointing fingers.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Linda in Texas. Hi, Linda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to say I adore you! But first of all, I`m wondering, since it`s quite obvious this is a shady man that she has in her home, and now that we know that -- we`re pretty sure it`s the child`s body, is there any way she can be charged with a crime?
GRACE: Excellent question, Linda Texas. Eleanor Odom, Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom -- what about it Eleanor?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I think so, with child neglect at the very least, Nancy, because she knew this guy had a bad background, beat her other child, and she left her baby with him.
GRACE: Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m going to agree with that, Nancy, but the focus needs to go on the system. Why are they letting him remain in the house? Why is he not on probation? And why...
GRACE: Peter Odom, what about it?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No one`s been charged with anything yet, Nancy. First we have to identify the victim, then we have to find out who did it, and it`s...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As part of our ongoing investigation, the city of Newburgh Police Department resumed the searched for Marc Bookal.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They searched the frigid waters of the Hudson River.
CHRISTINA BOOKAL, MOTHER OF MISSING 4-YEAR-OLD MARC BOOKAL: He doesn`t wander off.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They searched in the woods by the shore.
BOOKAL: He doesn`t go to strangers.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And through the dirt near a sewerage treatment plant.
BOOKAL: I just want my son to be found.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A search for 4-year-old Marc Bookal that grows grim.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The remains of what appear to be a child`s body have been found in the woods just blocks from his Newburgh home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Preliminary examination of those remains indicates that they are consistent with those of a small child.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The remains hidden in a duffel bag, according to sources.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And since we do not have any other reports of any other missing children in this city or, in fact, in any kind of a proximity that would lend credibility to this might be anybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly I think there is some foul play involved.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who`s responsible for the murder of a cute and innocent 4-year-old boy?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Earlier in the afternoon, they had been in the bedroom that Marc`s mother shares with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend, Mr. Byrd, was here, had fallen asleep, had been watching television, maybe a movie, and then noticed at 1:00 p.m. that little Marc had gone missing. He noticed that this door was wide open and no Marc.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. Unleash the lawyers. Felony prosecutor specializing in crimes on children, Eleanor Odom, Atlanta, veterans defense attorney, Renee Rockwell, and defense attorney Peter Odom, Atlanta.
First of all to you, Renee Rockwell. Do you really believe that if this turns out to be the body of this 4-year-old child, Marc Anthony Bookal, that mommy can also be charged?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, of course, she can. If she`s got the knowledge that he`s been brutal and violent to her other children. Not in the murder, Nancy, but certainly with some kind of endangerment or neglect.
GRACE: Peter Odom, you say no?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I say that, for right now, Nancy, we just need to step back and identify the victim. You know, this man has the right to due process just like any ore suspect of a crime.
GRACE: Peter, Peter, Peter. What are you talking about? That`s not even the question. Every time I ask you a question, you start talking about due process and the Constitution.
Look, we`re all lawyers.
P. ODOM: I`m just not willing to convict --
GRACE: We`ve all tried cases. We understand the Constitution. Guess what, Peter? Are you a 12-member jury in the correct jurisdiction? No. So there`s no way you can possibly convict anybody. What I --
P. ODOM: So let`s not do it. Let`s let the process take its course and see what happens.
GRACE: OK. You know what, Peter?
P. ODOM: It doesn`t look good for him, I`ll grant you that, Nancy. But let`s just --
GRACE: You went to three years of law school to tell me it doesn`t look good?
P. ODOM: And I remember every minute of it.
GRACE: OK, Eleanor.
P. ODOM: They were all miserable.
GRACE: Let`s speak practically. OK? If this is the child`s body, we know the mother let the live-in come back into the home after beating the 14-month-old.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Right.
GRACE: Lacerated, spleen, fractures to the head. They said ongoing child abuse.
E. ODOM: Exactly.
GRACE: Could she be charged with endangering a child?
E. ODOM: I think she could, Nancy, especially if there was some abuse on this child that she knew about and continued to let the boyfriend live in the home.
And you know, Nancy, weren`t we just saying the other day? A leopard doesn`t change its spots.
GRACE: Yes, we were.
Out to the lines, Michelle in New Hampshire. Hi, Michelle.
MICHELLE, CALLER FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my phone call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
MICHELLE: My question is, if this little boy was burnt a few months before he was taken away and murdered, why didn`t children services step this, especially after the 14-month-old was seriously injured?
GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. Let`s go to the reporter with the "Times Herald-Record," joining us there in Newburgh where the tiny body was found stuffed in a duffel bag, Doyle Murphy.
Doyle, what about it? How did the child burn his hands?
DOYLE MURPHY, REPORTER, TIMES HERALD-RECORD, FROM WHERE BOY`S BODY WAS FOUND: That part is still left unclear. They said, you know, it`s an accident. And that`s about as much as a -- much details we`ve gotten to it.
I don`t know, I mean everybody has seen the photo. You see him there with his hands bandaged and smiling his face, while we haven`t gotten any real detail or saw an explanation for that.
GRACE: To Dr. Robert Cartwright, pediatrician, renowned in his region, joining us tonight.
Dr. Cartwright, isn`t it true that when a doctor treats a child and suspects abuse, just like a schoolteacher that sees abuse, don`t you have to report it?
DR. ROBERT C. CARTWRIGHT, M.D., PEDIATRICIAN AND ALLERGIST: Absolutely. It is a legal statute that you have to report it. Whether you really truly feel like it`s abuse or not, or maybe it`s just the possibility. You`re responsible for reporting it and letting the authorities handle the outcome.
GRACE: Dr. Cartwright, I don`t understand it. Look at this photo. The child has got a sticker on. It looks like he`s in a hospital bed. Not that photo, Liz. The sticker -- there you go, the sticker right there. His little hand is all bandaged up.
With the history this live-in had of beating the hell out of the 14- month-old little brother, I don`t understand why the DFCS, Department of Family and Children Services, wasn`t called in on this. Now the baby is dead, Doctor.
CARTWRIGHT: Well, that is certainly the big question, obviously. I think if -- looking in hindsight it makes it real easy to think that the doctors made a mistake, the nurses, whoever else was caring for him. You know, at the time, maybe there was a very legitimate story that seemed very plausible, but in hindsight, it does look very bad.
GRACE: To Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler: My Life Hunting Serial Killers and Psychopaths."
Pat, weigh in please?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER: MY LIFE HUNTING SERIAL KILLERS AND PSYCHOPATHS." Well, I have think we`re looking at two people with personality disorders. Two people who lie really well to those doctors.
And I -- that woman was not confused. Here`s the situation as I see it. She got four presents for Christmas. She got the big Santa present and she got three stocking stuffers. And they`re OK, they`re all fine, but you know if she had to throw a few of them to keep one, she`s keeping the big Santa present and that`s her boyfriend.
GRACE: You know, that is a very creepy analogy, Pat Brown. But I get it.
BROWN: Yes.
GRACE: Bill Majeski, former NYPD, now Majeski Associates, Inc. out of New York.
Bill, how do we link the duffel bag or anything else at the crime scene where the body was found that`s clearly not where the child was killed?
BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, MAJESKI ASSOCIATES, INC.: Yes, that`s --
GRACE: The child was killed somewhere else and that body was moved there. I don`t care what police are saying right now.
MAJESKI: Well, a lot of things that --
GRACE: That body was moved there.
MAJESKI: A lot of things that the police should be looking into at this point in time. Did the boyfriend have access to a car? If he didn`t have access to a car and he was only mobile by foot, that would give an indication as to why -- if he was involved why the body was placed as close to the home as it actually was.
The duffel bag itself, they`re probably doing forensic analysis on that to try to determine where the bag came from, whether it was purchased locally. If it was purchases locally and the mother had it -- made some indication that it looks familiar to her, so they may be able to place that duffel bag in the house.
The other thing is they have to start doing more interviewing in terms of the people around the neighborhood. The children themselves should go through some type of strategic interviewing with those teams of professionals that know how to interview children to find out the explosive nature of this boyfriend.
How often did he get angry, if at all, when he was living at home with three other children? Another thing is going have to -- going in and talking to the inmates that are incarcerated with him to see if he had said -- leaked any information to them along the way.
So I`m sure police are doing all of these things as we speak.
GRACE: Right.
MAJESKI: And slowly they`re putting a solid case together. And hopefully they`ll conclude very soon.
GRACE: Back to Doyle Murphy, "Times Herald-Record."
Doyle, you spoke with mommy and she refused to comment on whether the live-in was involved, saying she didn`t want to be criticized. But we know that she`s either visiting him behind bars or taking his collect phone calls.
MURPHY: I know she has contacted him through family members of Cory. I don`t know how often that`s been. So that she talked to his sister yesterday.
GRACE: Did you ask her if she thought he was involved? And if so, what did she say?
MURPHY: I did ask her that. She said that she didn`t want to say whether she thought so or not. She said, you know, that every time that she`s said something like that, she said, you know, it comes back on her, that people are criticizing her. I mean, obviously you`re on this show.
I mean she`s taken a lot of heat here and there`s been no charges filed against her so far as I know.
GRACE: All right, so she wouldn`t comment. Rupa --
MURPHY: It is never -- you take a lot of heat there.
GRACE: Rupa, I understand that you know more about the child`s burns on his hands?
MIKKILINENI: Right, Nancy. When I spoke with Christina Bookal, the day that I interviewed her after her son went missing, she told me that that was a big mistake that the police put out there about the burn marks on the hands of her child.
She said it was something -- nail polish remover and a lighter the kids are playing and the older brother did this. Now police say that`s not the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: After months of searching, Newburgh Police moments ago just find human remains of a young child, believed to be the body of 4-year-old Marc Bookal. Sources say the body of the little 4-year- old was purposely concealed in a duffel bag.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cory Byrd is currently being held on a parole violation. He has an extensive criminal background and part of the background does include violence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly, I think there is some foul play involved.
MIKKILINENI: This is the door, the backdoor that leads to an alley.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The psychology of a 4-year-old is not to run away from home and be gone for this long.
MIKKILINENI: Which is what the mother`s boyfriend says was wide open when he realized that Marc had gone missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My boyfriend went behind him and was gone, but a minute later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just walked away and nobody knows where he`s at. Marc is not going to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A sad ending to a desperate search.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state police cadaver dog team located what would have been confirmed to be human remains.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s go straight out to Judy in New York. Hi, Judy.
JUDY, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good dear what`s your question?
JUDY: My question is, with this mother. Why aren`t there any social workers involved?
GRACE: You know, that`s a great question, Judy in New York.
Now, Rupa, everyone is talking about, will she be charged in this case? What happened in 1998 when her 14-month-old was nearly beaten to death at the hands of this guy?
MIKKILINENI: That`s right, Nancy. I mean everyone keeps questioning whether or not she`ll be charged. Well, she was charged in 1998. Now granted it was with misdemeanor child neglect charges. And so she only did three weeks in jail and one year probation, but she was still charged. So why wouldn`t she be charged this time around?
GRACE: And where was DFCS after that event? Shouldn`t they have been following them all along?
MIKKILINENI: Nancy, this is a great question. And this is where we`re a little fuzzy. I mean I do know that police indicated to me that CPS at least did investigate to some extent the burns on Marc`s hands. And they determined by interviewing the older brother -- the older brother denies this nail polish-lighter story. So in fact the only other adult in the house at the time the boy was burned was Cory Byrd.
GRACE: To Doyle Murphy with the "Times Herald-Record," you indicated that when you spoke to the mom, she didn`t want to take a stand one way or the other on the live-in`s involvement because she didn`t want to catch heat. And you said like she`s catching here tonight on this show.
Mr. Murphy, why shouldn`t she catch heat? She left her son, a defenseless 4-year-old, alone with a man that nearly beat a 14-month-old to death.
MURPHY: Yes, I mean, it could turn out to be -- you know, if it turns out to be that he`s the one that did this or somehow involved, or she should have known better, then fine. But right now, nobody really knows anything.
It`s -- I mean, they call it -- Newburgh here they call it Newsburgh because rumors spread so fast through the streets here. It`s rampant. And these are tough streets here. So if people make up their mind on something, it can be tough here for somebody.
GRACE: To Clark Goldband, our producer on the story.
Clark, here`s reality. The mom left the 4-year-old. I`m talking to Clark Goldband, Elizabeth.
The mom left the 4-year-old with a man that nearly beat her 14-month- old to death in 1998. Now either he killed this child, the 4-year-old, or he didn`t watch the child and he went outside and got murdered. Those are the two choices.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, yes, Nancy, and those questions were actually brought up at a press conference that just concluded shortly before we came to air this evening.
And the question was, who are your persons of interest right now? Law enforcement named one, Nancy. That`s Cory Byrd. The follow-up was, well, is there someone else that you`re looking at? And the chief of PD there, Nancy, says that, in fact, all -- at this stage in the investigation, they`re seeing Cory Byrd as their only POI. And from what he said, seems like more may happen on that.
Now, Nancy, I can also tell you, law enforcement also taking away some brush from the area that bag had been found, possibly trying to find more information on that brush.
Law enforcement also making a plea, Nancy, if anyone saw anything in the area to please call them. They need that one tip that will crack this wide open.
GRACE: Black to the lines. Beth in California. Hi, Beth.
BETH, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, how are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
BETH: My question is why are all these young women standing beside the perpetrator every time we see an innocent child come up missing?
GRACE: Beth, good question. I`m not a shrink, but luckily I have one on the show tonight. Dr. Bethany Marshall, joining us out of L.A.
What about it, Bethany?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Beth was - -
GRACE: And please don`t tell me mommy was confused, OK?
MARSHALL: Well --
GRACE: You gave me angina. You made my teeth hurt.
MARSHALL: What can I say is that women who stay with men who molest their children, beat their children, men who commit other crimes, women who fall in love with men who have a criminal history or who have been in jail, they always have a refusal to put their thoughts together about the reality of what is happening in their relationship.
And what we see with this woman is she thought her boyfriend was god and god can do no wrong.
GRACE: Dr. Robert Cartwright, pediatrician joining us from our Atlanta studio tonight.
Dr. Cartwright, I was reading some of the files on when the 14-month- old went to the hospital. And the file said there was ongoing child abuse. Now how do you look at a child`s body and know that the child has been abused in the past?
CARTWRIGHT: Well, you can certainly see signs of old bruising. You know, fresh bruises, that bright bluish color and then they start fading over time. Probably more of what they saw was evidence of skeletal issues. You can see fractures in various stages of healing and certain x-rays could show there may be old fractures which would indicate a chronic history of abuse.
GRACE: So Renee Rockwell, what do you advise to mommy and Cory Byrd, the live-in?
ROCKWELL: First of all, they need to quit talking on phone, and I would be very careful, if I was Cory Bird`s attorney, to tell him not to be talking to any of the jailhouse folks that are next door that would obviously rat him out. Lastly --
GRACE: What about it, Peter?
P. ODOM: Absolutely, keep your mouth shut. It`s the advice that we give to all our clients, but it`s almost always ignored.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A sad ending to a desperate search.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state police cadaver dog team located what would have been confirmed to be human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police in full force searching by air and on foot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Preliminary examination of those remains indicates that they are consistent with those of a small child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, to Pat in New York. Hi, Pat.
PAT, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy. Love you, love your twins.
I live about three miles from this situation. And I have a quick question and a quick comment.
GRACE: OK.
PAT: The mother was raised in a very good home. Her parents are both ministers in a church not too far away. She still has -- Christine still has in her home a Christmas tree and gifts waiting for the child.
I`m wondering with this man`s terrible history of abuse if she`s not, in fact, maybe a battered wife syndrome like the Lisa Steinberg type of situation?
GRACE: What about it Bethany Marshall?
MARSHALL: She doesn`t seem battered to me. It`s like I said earlier. A refusal to put her thoughts together about the reality of what`s happening in her home, and if anyone else tries to tell her anything to the contrary, they`re wrong, not him.
GRACE: Clark.
GOLDBAND: I can tell you, Nancy, that her 6-year-old son also does not yet know his brother is dead. She has yet to tell him.
GRACE: And Rupa Mikkilineni, very quickly, what time did he call police?
MIKKILINENI: I think around 1:30 or 1:40. It wasn`t very far.
GRACE: And what time did he say the child left?
MIKKILINENI: 1:00.
GRACE: OK. Very quickly, Pat Brown, between 1:00 and 1:30, does that make sense for another person to step into the picture and kill the child?
BROWN: Well, absolutely makes no sense whatsoever. He`s got the usual story. I was looking this direction, the door just happened to be open. This just happened to happen, this just happened.
It`s the just story, and it`s usually a pack of lies after the word "just."
GRACE: So, what can you tell me about what`s coming up next, Rupa? Where are police headed now? When do we expect the cause of death to be announced, a positive I.D. on the body? What? When?
MIKKILINENI: Nancy, they`re expecting results from their DNA lab up in Albany. They said anywhere between a few days to a few weeks. So we`re really just waiting, and they haven`t even -- they may have some preliminary results from the autopsy, which they are not sharing with the mother, with Christina Bookal right now. They want to wait until they have the positive identification.
And furthermore, Nancy, they also are not allowing the mother to see the boy`s remains.
GRACE: Tip line, 845-569-7509, the reward is $26,000.
Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Tyler Kritz, 21, Eagle River, Wisconsin, killed, Iraq. On a second tour, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Polite, soft-spoken and loved dogs, music, traveling, writing poetry. Played football in high school. Leaves behind grieving parent Doreen and Joseph.
Tyler Kritz, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And happy birthday, happy 21st birthday to Louisiana friend Eric. He`s an engineering student at LSU and the godchild of defense attorney Renee Rockwell.
Happy birthday, Eric.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
