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Nancy Grace
Misty Croslin Reportedly Flunks Another Polygraph
Aired March 26, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5- year-old girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh. The last person to see her alive, new stepmother Misty Croslin, who takes to the airwaves, claiming she`s innocent. But even in one brief interview, she can`t keep her story straight, including a 180 on a lie detector she flunked. Little Haleigh`s own father, Ronald Cummings, and baby-sitter- turned-stepmother Misty Croslin both handcuffed, arrested, booked. Charges, drug trafficking.
Bombshell tonight. Reports from behind bars Croslin writes a letter detailing what she claims happened the night Haleigh disappears. But who has the letter? And will it solve what happened to Haleigh? This as Croslin`s brother and fellow inmate, Tommy Croslin, says he wants a polygraph. But he wants the test done privately, not by police. Why? And tonight, breaking news on sitter and stepmother Misty Croslin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER: I`m telling you, man, everybody here is, like, Famous Misty Croslin (INAUDIBLE)
I woke up, and she was gone!
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I come home from work and my child was not there!
How the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) can you let my daughter get stole, (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
MISTY CROSLIN: Me being in the jail has nothing to do with Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigators has had an effect on her.
LISA CROSLIN, MISTY`S MOTHER: I see a smile!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And right now, they are investigating a letter she has sent to a family member telling what she says she knows about that night with Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bottom line, you don`t know where Haleigh is.
MISTY CROSLIN: Bottom line.
That`s what they think, I`m going to break? There`s nothing to break me on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The letter has gone to a family member.
MISTY CROSLIN: Well, today Art said Misty holds the key.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family member turned it over to investigators.
MISTY CROSLIN: I didn`t do anything to with little girl! I loved her like she`s my own!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are trying to see what details in the letter they can confirm, what they can`t.
MISTY CROSLIN: I cry all the time about Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, the attorney for Croslin`s brother, Tommy Croslin, is trying to set up a poly for his client.
TOMMY CROSLIN, MISTY`S BROTHER: I said, I can`t help you find nobody. I don`t know where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tommy Croslin says he has nothing to do with Haleigh`s disappearance and wants to clear his name.
TOMMY CROSLIN: Told them everything I know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s talking to her sister-in-law, and she says she`s going to say what she knows...
MISTY CROSLIN: It`s going to hurt two people.
CHELSEA CROSLIN, MISTY`S SISTER-IN-LAW: That we care about?
MISTY CROSLIN: Kind of. One, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She tells her mother that she`s told her attorney, that he knows.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We really would not care who it implicates.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it? She won`t say.
LISA CROSLIN: You write her, she`ll continue writing you.
MISTY CROSLIN: I know. I`m going to write her back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Reports from behind bars misty Croslin writes and sends a letter detailing what happened the night little Haleigh disappears.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANK CROSLIN, MISTY`S FATHER: If we could find Haleigh, we`d all -- it`d be better for everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) go stand up, baby.
MISTY CROSLIN: I know. I`ve been -- I`ve been -- I sit and wonder every day.
I just woke up and our back door was wide open, and we can`t find my daughter.
Thinking, just trying to go back.
I see the back door open, and I go in the room and she`s gone!
Just thinking if there`s anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How the bed be made if (INAUDIBLE)
MISTY CROSLIN: I do. Every day.
They`re going to now. They`re going to know. I`ve just got to wait until I can -- my lawyer is ready.
And I just -- it`s not, Dad. There`s nothing!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This as we learn Misty Croslin`s brother, Tommy Croslin, through his lawyer is trying to set up a polygraph test to clear his name.
TOMMY CROSLIN: I`ve got nothing to say to them because they`re a bunch of damn liars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tommy has said repeatedly on the tape, I don`t know anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wants to involve them in the situation so that they will corroborate her story.
MISTY CROSLIN: It`s just that, you know, I`ve got to do what I`ve got to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not going to crack.
LISA CROSLIN: Did you tell them what you know?
MISTY CROSLIN: My lawyer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s protecting herself.
LISA CROSLIN: Well, what`s he saying?
MISTY CROSLIN: I can`t really say. He`s comfortable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`d rather go to jail as a drug dealer than a baby killer.
MISTY CROSLIN: I`m not going to be in this jail forever, Ma.
LISA CROSLIN: I know, baby.
MISTY CROSLIN: They`re not going to keep me locked up forever, I`m telling you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, out of Satsuma, Florida, breaking news. Straight out to investigative journalist Art Harris. What about it, Art?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Nancy, I can tell you that on Artharris.com, we`re reporting exclusively Misty Croslin has flunked a secret police polygraph she`s taken behind bars. Police have asked her what happened that night. They have been trying to corroborate what she has written in several letters, one to her sister-in-law, Chelsea, another to her father, that describes what happened that night. They quizzed her on it under polygraph conditions with a veteran polygraph examiner, and she flunked miserably. Those are the words of the examiner.
GRACE: Art Harris, what do you believe, after all of your undercover work, is in the letter?
HARRIS: Well, Nancy, I can tell you that Chelsea Croslin, sister-in- law, described to me that Misty told her cousin -- a cousin from Tennessee and her brother, Tommy, came over that night to steal a gun Ronald had been bragging about he had in his closet. They show up. The gun wasn`t there. Misty said, you know, He must have taken it somewhere else. So Tommy said, I`m out of here. Cousin Joe got mad and took Haleigh. That is the story she`s claiming in these letters to family members, Nancy.
GRACE: OK, Art, she`s claiming that she was awake and cognizant and knows the cousin took the baby?
HARRIS: She says -- has said on several occasions, in addition to the letter, that she remembers waking up and seeing cousin Joe with Haleigh. Now, whether that can be corroborated is a big question. He`s not been charged. He says he had nothing to do with it. He`s not in jail, like she is and her brother, Tommy.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, In Session, who`s been on the case from the very beginning. Weigh in Jean. Is this even possible, this new story from Misty Croslin?
JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION: Well, let me weigh in in regard to Tommy. Tommy`s attorney has said that he wants to take a polygraph. So if he was involved in all of that, as she seems to say, but her polygraph doesn`t say that`s the truth, then I think Tommy does need to take a polygraph to see where he stands on that particular issue.
GRACE: Now, Jean, take me back. Wasn`t it Tommy Croslin, which is her brother, that says he went to the home that night, the night Haleigh goes missing, bams on the door between 10:00 and 10:30, waits and waits and waits, nobody ever comes to the door? Wasn`t that him?
CASAREZ: He`s said it repeatedly. He has said that story repeatedly. Now he is voluntarily wanting to take a polygraph. He`s never taken one before, Nancy, that we know of.
GRACE: Elizabeth, please cue up the video of Marlaina Schiavo taking us through the home.
Jean Casarez, I`d like to get Tommy Croslin under polygraph to ask him about that night that he says he went there and bammed and bammed and bammed and beat and beat and beat on the door and she never came to the door, Misty Croslin, nobody ever came. Many people say she wasn`t there.
I want to go to you, Marlaina Schiavo. You have been in the home. Isn`t it true that where she was sleeping, Misty Croslin was sleeping, there`s no way she would have been able to ignore her brother bamming on the front door?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: There`s no possible way that could happen because where she was sleeping to -- in relation to the front door was only about 10 feet away. So if someone was banging, they would have heard it.
But what is really strange about this whole thing with Tommy is that when he was arrested and he gave this information to investigators, they never issued a polygraph and they never cleared the story one way or another with him. So now his attorney says it`s time for him to tell the story about what happened that night, Nancy.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Laurie in Michigan. Hi, Laurie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to tell you, God bless you for -- as hard as this is for you, you are bringing such an awareness for all these children. I have a grandson that I have guardianship of, and I believe because of you and the awareness that you brought about these children, we were able to get the guardianship. He was traumatized, in a bad situation, and he is happily living with us and undergoing counseling. And it`s because of you. I think you saved his life.
GRACE: Oh, gosh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the question I have for you is, can she be hypnotized? And if she can, can that be held up in court?
GRACE: First of all, Laurie, I don`t deserve those kind words.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You do.
GRACE: But thank you. You`re the one that`s saving your grandchild`s life.
I want to go on that issue of hypnosis -- isn`t it true, Art Harris, that Misty Croslin said at one juncture she would agree to being put under hypnosis, but yet either she walked out of the hypnotist or she refused to be, wouldn`t let herself be put under?
HARRIS: Nancy, that`s right. With Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch, she volunteered to do that, and it apparently did not work.
GRACE: OK, Liz, do you have the video and the sound of Marlaina taking us through the home? Here`s the video. Tell me what you`re seeing, Marlaina.
SCHIAVO: Well, Nancy, this is the master bathroom, OK? This is where -- this is the master bedroom where Misty was sleeping with little Haleigh. And when she claims she woke up at 3:00 AM and she went to the bathroom -- which the video is going towards the opposite end of the house, or the trailer- and to go to the bathroom, notices that the light is on. And this is when the scramble starts to -- you know, where is Haleigh? She noticed Haleigh isn`t there. And the question still remains as to why she didn`t go to the bathroom that was actually in the bedroom itself.
GRACE: So Marlaina, how far is her bed, Misty Croslin`s bed, from the front door?
SCHIAVO: From the front door, it`s about 10 feet. Now, the back door where she said the door was propped open with a cinderblock, that was about 16 feet, Nancy.
GRACE: Joining me right now exclusively, a very special guest, James Werter. He is the attorney for Tommy Croslin. And he says he will schedule an independent polygraph. James Werter, thank you for being with us.
JAMES WERTER, ATTORNEY FOR TOMMY CROSLIN: Thank you, Nancy. Good evening.
GRACE: Mr. Werter, Tommy Croslin insists he came to the home the evening Haleigh goes missing. He places himself at the home where the child disappeared. But he says he bammed on the door repeatedly, nobody ever came, and he left.
WERTER: Nancy, you have to understand when that statement was given, he had been arrested for that grand theft charge and he was in for a week waiting bond, and he was interviewed every day until he finally gave that statement. That`s why we want a polygraph to clear the air on the timeline.
GRACE: Well, don`t you think that Misty Croslin would have told this story before now, that she woke up and saw cousin Joe and her brother standing over Haleigh?
WERTER: I can`t really speculate as to anything that Misty says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN: You know, people are saying I`m not -- I don`t think about Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought all along that she had something to do with it.
MISTY CROSLIN: Everybody in this block knows I think about her all the time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now this kind of just proves it.
MISTY CROSLIN: I got all my food. Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was the last one to see our daughter.
MISTY CROSLIN: It was like Christmas last night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN: Get me out now.
LISA CROSLIN: When I leave here, I`m going to go by Lindsey`s and get some pictures for you.
MISTY CROSLIN: Yes.
LISA CROSLIN: Of Haleigh and Junior.
MISTY CROSLIN: Yes. I want one of Haleigh and Junior and one of Ronald.
LISA CROSLIN: All right. I`ll get them all to you.
MISTY CROSLIN: I mean, I still love him, Mama.
LISA CROSLIN: Huh?
MISTY CROSLIN: I still love him.
LISA CROSLIN: I know you do, baby.
MISTY CROSLIN: I wish I had powers, man. I would be, like, Poof, out of this place.
You can ask everybody in the cellblock right here, right now. Everybody in this block knows that I think about her all the time, that I talk about her all the time.
In this letter that I`m writing you, I write -- like, it`s to you and Dad, but there`s parts in it that`s for you and parts of it`s in there for Dad.
I cry all the time about Haleigh, pray all the time about Haleigh.
LISA CROSLIN: Yes, I know.
MISTY CROSLIN: So they can all kiss my ass.
I want to start a letter tonight for you guys, start writing it tonight. Going to write Timmy, as soon as I get his address. Can send him a thing. I`m going to write Nanny and -- you and Mom and Nanny and Timmy.
I`m not no drug dealer. I don`t -- you know, I`m nothing like that. They can kiss my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Andie in Arkansas. Hi, Andie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. We love you here in Arkansas. Thank you for what you do.
GRACE: Well, thank you very much. And thank you for calling in. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I just wanted to make a quick comment about Misty Croslin.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has anyone ever considered that maybe she`s not talking because she herself did something to Haleigh? I mean, everybody knows that it`s very hard to blend families, and especially with a 17-year- old that`s very immature and knows nothing about mothering.
And I would bet that little Lucy probably has your husband just wrapped around her little finger because that`s what daddies do with daughters. And I think that she was so jealous of Ronald`s relationship with this child, and maybe even moreso because she had medical problems and needed a lot of attention. So I think that she herself, if she didn`t do it, she certainly had somebody to do it for her. And I think her motive was jealousy.
GRACE: Well, Andie in Arkansas, that to me is the obvious answer. I agree with you as to why she`s not talking. And there`s no way she has sat behind bars all this time and endured all these police interviews and questioning to cover for cousin Joe and her brother Tommy. The first thing she did when she got behind bars is rat out Tommy Croslin on an alleged burglary. So why would she cover for him if she were to wake up in the middle of the night and see him standing over Haleigh? I don`t see it.
But to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers," what about Andie`s question?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I think she`s totally right because when you listen to Misty Croslin, she doesn`t reminisce about Haleigh. She doesn`t talk about feeding her, cooking for her, pushing her on a swing. She doesn`t say to her mom, Mom, do you remember when she was walking to school or when I read that little book to her? She has no empathy towards and no attachment to this little girl and no memories. It`s like someone pressed the erase button, which to me is an indicator of guilt.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of Orlando, a specialist in Florida law, Mark Nejame, Eleanor Odom, prosecutor, Atlanta, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Atlanta, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta.
And I want to go first to Mark Nejame. Weigh in, Mark.
MARK NEJAME, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi. Good evening, Nancy. You know, when it comes to Misty, just really, who knows? The reality of it is she hasn`t been truthful about anything...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Mark Nejame, look, you`ve got a great reputation. You`ve got to give me more than "Who knows." And let me remind you that with us tonight is the attorney for Tommy Croslin, James Werter out of Jacksonville, and he`s willing to put his client strapped up to a poly. So do you really believe, Mark Nejame, that Misty Croslin has sat on this story all this time and not told police?
NEJAME: No. No. I mean, Misty`s out for Misty. Misty failed a polygraph in my office. She`s apparently failed another polygraph. Her story`s changed like the wind changes. I think that Tommy`s lawyer`s doing the right thing. I think he needs to get a polygraph out there. I think, though, that he needs to go ahead and make sure that the questions are the right questions and not just ones that are created that still leave ambiguity out there. He`s got to be real clear about what they`re asking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN: Did you read the papers today?
I wish that they would have took me instead of her.
The people that are involved, that the cops think that`s involved, is locked up.
They go out and look for that person, maybe they -- they would be -- have the answer.
Then it`s the father of Haleigh Cummings and the stepmother of...
They`re trying to get all the answers from me that I don`t have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIMMY CROSLIN, MISTY`S BROTHER: They didn`t try to question you anymore or anything at all?
TOMMY CROSLIN: No. I ain`t got nothing to say to them jokers. Let them cover over and talk -- talking to me. I`m going to tell them to (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Leave me alone. I ain`t got nothing to say to you lying people.
TIMMY CROSLIN: Yes.
TOMMY CROSLIN: Crooked-ass cops.
TIMMY CROSLIN: Yes. Yes. It`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED), dude.
TOMMY CROSLIN: If I knew something, you`d know a long time ago. Leave me alone. Talk to my lawyer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right. It`s always the cops` fault when they catch you on video selling dope.
I want to go straight back out to our lawyers, but first to Art Harris, investigative journalist, who broke the story just a few moments ago regarding yet another failed polygraph. What are the circumstances surrounding the poly?
HARRIS: Nancy, I can tell you that investigators have been trying to get Misty to take a new poly for quite a while. She was too sick one night to take it. But finally, on February 26th, 5:30 PM, they sent for her from her cell, the St. John`s County jail, several investigators, and one of the top polygraph operators in Florida, a woman who works part-time for the -- a nearby sheriff`s department, set up for it, and they sent for her.
She left her cell, went to the administration building. And they were very careful to spend at least an hour going over questions and what they were going to cover so that they could have control -- you know, control of questions and they knew what they were talking about and it would be a valid polygraph. She then went over this story about Misty claiming Tommy and cousin Joe showed up and Joe took the baby. They went over it again and again. Investigators...
GRACE: Where -- go ahead, Art.
HARRIS: Yes, investigators were waiting in another room. They were so excited, Nancy. They thought this might be the turning point. They had a tidbit. They had Misty telling these morsels that they wanted to believe, and they were trying to parse them out to see what parts of these stories might be verifiable through the poly. That would allow them to take it to the next step and squeeze somebody else, maybe.
Suddenly, the polygraph operator at 8:30 PM goes into the other room where everyone is waiting and has to deliver the news. Miserably, she flunked.
GRACE: That she flunked. When you say miserably, how badly did she flunk?
HARRIS: Every -- every question, I`m told, there was deception and they could not verify anything. And it is so frustrating. These investigators have worked so hard for so long. One has even mused that -- wonders could this be someone who can`t pass a polygraph, but could she be telling the truth?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN: I have a drug problem.
CHELSEA CROSLIN: The problem is you`re not even a drug addict.
MISTY CROSLIN: Some black guy just jumped in my car and stole my whole purse!
I am. I smoke marijuana.
He threw me out the car and had a gun and said he was going to shoot me!
CHELSEA CROSLIN: You got caught up in the mix.
LISA CROSLIN: I know I got caught up, but I just realized...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S MOTHER: I talked to your lawyer today.
MISTY CROSLIN, RONALD CUMMING`S EX-WIFE, LAST SEEN HALEIGH: Yes. We don`t know what they`re going to do. And he says that you guys have to stop talking to Leonard, too. As long as you guys (INAUDIBLE) -- you know, we all need to stop talking to him, too.
L. CROSLIN: I know. I`m not calling him no more. I don`t want it to hurt you.
M. CROSLIN: Yes. Because everybody y`all talk to that`s just hurting me.
L. CROSLIN: Yes.
M. CROSLIN: No newspapers. Don`t talk to the newspaper articles. Don`t talk about anything. Nothing to nobody.
Well, today Art said Misty holds the key.
L. CROSLIN: I know. It`s what it says in this one, too.
FLORA HOLLERS, MISTY CROSLIN`S GRANDMOTHER: Just hold your head up high. You ain`t got a damn thing to hide.
M. CROSLIN: Exactly. I`m not -- it`s hard in here. Of course it`s hard. But there`s nothing I can do. I`ve just got to live by every day and make the best of it, I guess. I`m doing OK.
TIMMY CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S BROTHER: Nancy Grace, she`s like, I mean, no, I do not sit there and think, you know, talk about Haleigh 24/7, but every night before I go to bed I say my prayers and Haleigh`s in my prayers every night.
M. CROSLIN: Haleigh`s always on my mind 24/7. She`s always on my mind. Just because I`m not talking about her doesn`t mean she`s not. You know?
T. CROSLIN: Yes, yes. It`s always like in the back of your head. You know, but you don`t talk about it all the --
M. CROSLIN: No, you can`t talk about it all the time. It will be -- you know? You`ll go crazy. I talk about her a lot, though.
I talk about her a lot because I mean, it`s just It feels better when I talk about her. So -- and Nancy Grace can say whatever she wants but we don`t care about her. Everybody in this jail knows that I talk about Haleigh a lot. Every article that we get in the newspaper I keep it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls. Out to Charlene, Indiana. Hi, Charlene.
CHARLENE, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi. And it`s a pleasure for you to take my question.
GRACE: Thank you for calling.
CHARLENE: Thank you so much for truly, truly being a victims` advocate.
GRACE: Thank you, Charlene.
CHARLENE: Misty Croslin, she seems to be such a bragger and wants people to think she`s so tough and so smart. I wonder if anyone has questioned any of the other inmates to see if maybe she has confided or bragged about Haleigh, you know, since she has to keep up this appearance.
GRACE: That`s a good question, Charlene in Indiana. Before I would go to trial on a major case I would always go to the cell block -- sometimes more than one cell block --to find out if the defendant had been speaking. They normally do.
Jean Casarez, what do you know?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, we know what she has said in her jailhouse tapes. She has said that she talks to everybody about how much she misses Haleigh and how much she thinks about Haleigh.
But you know, I think Charlene brings up a great point because in the Casey Anthony case we just found out through a prosecution`s motion that Casey had written 258 pages to another inmate, and no one would have believed that.
GRACE: To Bethany Marshall -- Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers," joining us tonight out of L.A.
Dr. Bethany, she does go on and on about how everybody knows I talk about Haleigh. But I and our staff have combed over hundreds -- it feels like hours of hours of her yakking and there`s not one time where she says, you know, that night everything was just fine. We went to bed. I did the laundry. That`s all I can tell them.
Or, you know, I took Haleigh to school that day or, you know, I was thinking about last Christmas and how happy she was.
Nothing. We have never once heard a recollection about Haleigh.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": You`re right. And if we knew nothing about Haleigh, we wouldn`t know anything from listening to her. There`s not one story or one recollection.
But what we do know about Misty is she is manipulative. That`s why she wrote this letter that then they had to give her a poly on to see if the letter was true. So this is yet one more example of her being manipulative, is that she gets on the phone talking to her brother and she starts to say oh, yes, I talk about Haleigh all the time.
She simply doesn`t.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Mark Nejame, Florida expert, joining us out of Orlando. Eleanor Odom, Renee Rockwell, Peter Odom. And attorney for Tommy Croslin joining us tonight out of Jacksonville, Florida, James Werter.
First to you, Eleanor Odom, polygraphs, hypnosis. Can they come into court?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: It depends. A polygraph can if there`s a stipulation by both the state and the defense --
GRACE: An agreement.
E. ODOM: An agreement. Exactly. And then it could come into evidence. But hypnotists and hypnosis, that has not been allowed in courts as of yet.
GRACE: And when she says stipulate, Renee Rockwell, typically the way it`s done is that before you take the polygraph you agree -- we`re going to do a poly, this is who`s going to give it -- and you don`t know the results when you agree up front.
We`re going to let it come into court. Right?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right. But you don`t know the results, Nancy. I wouldn`t let one of my clients take a polygraph unless I had gotten a polygraph previously by a private polygrapher.
And I`ll remind you of the case, Nancy, that you and I had together when you were tracking to crack the red rapist case in Atlanta. You remember that.
GRACE: Very well.
ROCKWELL: We had a witness. It was my client. You weren`t letting him get on the stand until you polygraphed him.
GRACE: That`s right.
ROCKWELL: Because it`s an investigative tool. The polygraph didn`t come in. But you wanted to know if he was telling the truth. But basically, you never see that unless it`s agreed to ahead of time. And most lawyers won`t do it. Most defense attorneys.
GRACE: Well, of course they won`t, Renee. Because most defense attorneys` clients did it. No offense to you, defense attorneys, but come on, that`s the deal.
Look, the police can hardly keep up with all the crime out there. How many thousands of criminals get away every day?
So you know, spare me.
What about it, Peter Odom? Hypnosis, polygraphs come into evidence?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, no court voluntarily allows polygraphs in without a stipulation. What that tells you is this. They`re scientifically unreliable.
However, people`s reactions to a polygraph are very important. When Tommy Croslin says hook me up, I`ll take a polygraph, that tells me something about what he has to say. Because it shows that there`s a perception out there that polygraphs are scientifically reliable.
If someone says I want to take that test, that adds a bit of credibility to what we think he might have said.
GRACE: It certainly does. And I`ve got a question for you, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. It`s a simple yes-no.
In your practice as a lawyer in any of the jurisdictions in which you`ve practiced, have you ever directed for anyone to get a polygraph?
P. ODOM: Yes.
GRACE: OK. So much for you claiming it`s not scientific. Back to --
P. ODOM: But not because it was reliable. Because it was to satisfy, placate a prosecutor that believed so much in polygraph tests.
GRACE: And you went along with it.
P. ODOM: Sometimes you`ve got to do that, Nancy.
GRACE: Now I`m going to try to go back to James Werter if Peter Odom -- is that OK with you? I take it that it is.
James Werter, attorney for Tommy Croslin. He`s planning to hook Tommy Croslin up to an independent poly.
What about a police poly?
JAMES WERTER, ATTORNEY FOR TOMMY CROSLIN, PLANS TO SCHEDULE INDEPENDENT POLYGRAPH FOR TOMMY CROSLIN: Well, I was looking. It was actually my suggestion. And we were looking for a more objective, non-biased person.
This is being organized by the private investigator Steve Brown. And he is an 11-year FBI veteran. I trust him completely. I will be present.
And we both sat with Tommy, and what we call down here have a come to Jesus talk with him, and we expressed that he is not going to beat a polygraph. It is a good investigative tool. But I agree that it is not a precise instrument.
GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, we are taking your calls live. With us tonight, not only Mark Nejame out of Florida, but James Werter, the attorney for Tommy Croslin. This is Misty Croslin`s brother. She`s already ratted him out on a burglary.
As we go to break, happy birthday to a Florida friend, Holly Helan McCormick. Devoted mother of two. Loves spending time with her family and friends. There are her kids, Grace and Cole. Husband Robert.
What a beautiful family.
And happy birthday to Georgia friend, Kim. Olympic silver medalist 400- meter hurdles. President of Body by Batton Sports Performance Company. Now, that`s a resume.
Happy birthday, Kim.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
M. CROSLIN: I dipped my bread in the chicken soup. It was so disgusting the chicken noodle soup today was disgusting. It seemed like it was old, like six, five years ago.
We just ate like about 30 minutes ago.
L. CROSLIN: What did you eat?
M. CROSLIN: Taco salad.
L. CROSLIN: Taco salad?
M. CROSLIN: Yes.
L. CROSLIN: Was it good?
M. CROSLIN: It was alright. I ate it all.
(LAUGHTER)
L. CROSLIN: It was alright then.
M. CROSLIN: I mixed the beans with it. Man, we had some nasty mystery meat tonight. I didn`t eat it.
L. CROSLIN: What?
M. CROSLIN: It`s called mystery meat. And I ate the pudding on the plate and drank my drink and I had green beans, but I ain`t eating no green beans without no garlic or no salt.
L. CROSLIN: No. They don`t give you salt there?
M. CROSLIN: No.
L. CROSLIN: What are they feeding you all tonight?
M. CROSLIN: We have some like meatball thing and noodles. It wasn`t that bad. I ate it. I ate all of it.
L. CROSLIN: That`s funny because Misty said you got her a bunch of HoneyBuns.
TOMMY CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S BROTHER: Yes.
L. CROSLIN: But your sister L. CROSLIN: got more chips though.
TOMMY CROSLIN: Yes. Me, too. I knew she was going to get a bunch of potato chips. Misty is a chip eater.
L. CROSLIN: I know. That`s what I told her.
TOMMY CROSLIN: She loaded up on them Doritos.
M. CROSLIN: Oh my god, they had nasty --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What`s with the whining about the food? I had a half of a chicken sandwich. That`s it.
Eleanor, what did you have?
E. ODOM: Let`s see, I think I didn`t have dinner tonight, Nancy.
GRACE: And the whining and complaining behind bars, it`s incessant. Let`s see. Tonight Miss Croslin is having chicken and rice with gravy. Sounds good. Peas, bread, pudding, and fruit juice. Fortified with vitamin C.
Now, that`s better than anybody on this panel got tonight. But yet the whining. The complaining. About the food. Her mattress. She`s got a private room with two beds in it. Both of them are awful. It`s like "The Princess and the Pea."
She hates what they play on the television. They pipe in movies for them. She hates them, too.
I want to go out to Dr. Robert Cartwright, an expert in his field, joining us out of Atlanta.
Dr. Cartwright, these polygraphs, lie detectors, they`re based on a physical reaction. How does it work medically?
DR. ROBERT C. CARTWRIGHT, M.D., PEDIATRICIAN AND ALLERGIST: Well, certainly, when you have stress, which would indicate perhaps deception, it creates changes in your physical makeup.
Your heart rate can change, blood pressure can change. Your, you know, EKG in terms of your heart waves can change. So that`s really what they`re looking for.
GRACE: And Dr. Cartwright, there`s no real way that I know of that you can control those involuntary bodily reactions.
CARTWRIGHT: Not certainly for an average person, somebody in Misty Croslin`s position. I don`t think that would be possible. Now, apparently, there are people in, you know, CIA, FBI, those types of people, that have been trained to break those. But for routine people, no.
GRACE: Of course I guess you could dope yourself up on sedatives so you`d be so zonked out you`d just be flat. But I would be afraid I would screw up the answers if I had taken some kind of medication. Would that work?
CARTWRIGHT: Well, you know, certainly there is a history of drug use here. So she may be better on drugs. Who knows? But it really is an unknown there.
GRACE: Hey. Hey. Hey, Cartwright. Don`t give her any ideas. OK?
To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who offered to bond Croslin out of jail, joining us out of Sacramento via Skype.
Hello, Leonard Padilla. Leonard, let me ask you a question.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, OFFERED TO BOND MISTY CROSLIN OUT OF JAIL: How are you doing, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m fine. Tommy Croslin reportedly looking for somebody to pay for his polygraph. What do you make of his declaring he wants a polygraph as it relates to Misty Croslin`s handwritten letter that he was in the home standing over Haleigh the night she disappeared?
PADILLA: I had several discussions with Tommy as well as family members, and I said I`d be willing to help out. But it has to be somebody that I would refer him to. And that would be Jack Tramarko.
I`ve contacted Jack Tramarko. Jack Tramarko contacted his wife and also the investigator on the case. And the other stipulation was that it would be a public polygraph, it would not be a polygraph where the defense attorney administers it and then if he doesn`t like the results it doesn`t get released.
Now that`s where I stand with Tommy as far as a polygraph. And I believe that Tramarko`s on board with me as far as doing it.
GRACE: Yes, Tramarko`s got an excellent reputation as a polygrapher.
I want to go now to Bill Majeski, former NYPD, now with Majeski Associates, a licensed polygraph examiner.
Bill, what do you make of all this?
BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, MAJESKI ASSOCIATES, INC.: OK. Just to clear up a couple of issues here. One, you know, a polygraph, it relies on psycho-physiological response.
What you do is you`re asking the person a question. No surprise questions. All the questions are prepared beforehand. They`re gone over beforehand. And the subject is instructed to answer those questions with a simple yes or simple no answer.
So now the process as you ask the question, that person thinks about the response to that question, then responds to it, and then physiologically reacts and those are then transmitted to a chart and those charts are read and evaluated.
In terms of why they want this person to take a polygraph test, contrary stories. What they`re trying to do is they`re trying to get him away from the scene. His initial statements were that he was at the scene when the child disappeared. So the lawyer wants to say OK, let him take a polygraph to prove that he was not there, nowhere near the area when it occurred.
But there are a lot of other things that can be done in terms of the -- you know, the interviewing process with all of these people. You can ask the same question over and over again. But unless you ask it a different way, you`re not going to get a different answer.
GRACE: To Art Harris. And Elizabeth, if you would take that video in full of Haleigh. This is on Christmas morning. I remember when Ronald Cummings -- could you take down the fonts and the banners and all that?
I want to see Haleigh. I remember Ronald Cummings sitting watching this with tears in his eyes.
Weigh in, Art Harris. Where do we go?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, ARTHARRIS.COM, INTERVIEWED MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S NEW STEPMOM: Well, Nancy, you know, he was -- he has been so distraught publicly that, you know, he has been also ruled out. So you have to come back, it always comes back to Misty.
Where they go from here, they`re frustrated.
GRACE: Everyone, it`s time now for "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA BIEL, ACTRESS: CNN Hero, Anne Mahlum.
ANNE MAHLUM, CNN HERO: It can change the world through decent humanity, kindness, and encourage and giving people a second chance.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Two years ago, Anne Mahlum was honored as a CNN Hero for helping those who might otherwise be forgotten, the homeless.
MAHLUM: So we`re going to go over there and we`re going to fit you for shorts. We`re going to fit you your shirt.
COOPER: Her "Back on My Feet" program inspires homeless men and women to change their own lives, sharing the benefits of running as well as providing job training skills.
What started off as a small running club of 300 has expanded to more than 1500 members with 17 teams running three times a week. It spread throughout Philadelphia, Baltimore and just this week, Washington, D.C.
MAHLUM: We`re doing great. Since being a CNN Hero, it`s been extraordinary. We received so many requests for expansion and people wanting to bring this program to their city.
COOPER: And has done more than just help get them off the streets. Last year alone, more than 170 members found work, started job training or moved out of shelters.
And Anne isn`t stopping any time soon.
MAHLUM: All right, we`re at the home stretch, guys, so pick it up.
COOPER: Along with First Lady Michelle Obama, she`s featured in this month`s issue of "Fitness" magazine and has plans to expand to Boston and Chicago later this year.
MAHLUM: We just gave them the opportunity to do something great. They took advantage of it and they did it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Tell your name, please.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Casey Marie Anthony.
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Still believe my daughter.
GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I believe in my daughter.
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I believe everything that my sister tells me.
GRACE: Immediately following the discovery, Caylee is gone.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Tim Miller says that Casey Anthony was walking around with a smile on her face. They all sit down at a table, Tim Miller has a map.
CINDY ANTHONY: She`s not far.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: George says, "Casey, mark an x where they should start looking."
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m literally at a standstill.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He never once heard her say help me find my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is it possible Jackson was in trouble?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s pumping, he`s pumping the chest but he`s not responding to anything.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bombshell accusations against the doctor at the center of Michael Jackson`s death investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A leaked investigative document. One thing it says is while Dr. Conrad Murray was performing resuscitation efforts on Jackson that he paused in order to collect vials of Propofol.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Propofol is a very serious, very potent sedative. It can make you stop breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATION: He`s not breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you see when you look at that the picture?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, friend.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Could a seemingly innocent vacation photo be the clue investigators have been waiting so long in the Natalee Holloway case.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A Pennsylvania couple says a picture they took during a snorkeling vacation in October there seems to show human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I looked at that photo, I said, by darn, that certainly does look like a skeleton.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Suspicion has really focused on that young man right there Joran Van Der Sloot.
PATRICK VAN DER EEM (Through Translator): She`s been dumped in the ocean?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (Through Translator): Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had no remorse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see where the eye sockets were.
BETH TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S MOTHER: I know he knows.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can almost see fingers.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police arrested a Michigan grandmother for allegedly allowing a 67-year-old man to have sex with her 10-year-old granddaughter in exchange for cocaine.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Blackwell now faces two charges for allegedly allowing the abuse to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that there`s more victims out there.
GRACE: A 4-year-old boy found in a duffel bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state police cadaver dog team located what would have been confirmed to be human remains.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Believed to be the body of 4-year-old Marc Bookal.
CHRISTINA BOOKAL, MOTHER OF MISSING MARC BOOKAL: That`s my baby.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The boy disappeared from his home in Newburg while being watched by his mother`s boyfriend.
BOOKAL: He has a good relationship with Marc.
GRACE: You left your son alone with a man that has a history of beating a child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Base Airman 1st Class Eric Barnes, 20, killed, Lorraine, Ohio, killed Iraq. On a second tour, planned a military career. Loved sports, the outdoors, music, especially the psychedelic styles of the 1970s.
Earned an Eagle Scout ranking, bowled a 300 game at age 18. In high school, donated his long blond hair to Locks of Love. Leaves behind grieving parents Sherry and Tom, brother Dale.
Eric Barnes, American hero.
Thanks to our guests. But our biggest thank you is to you for being with us. And a special good night from Georgia friends, defense attorneys, Scott, Mike, Daniel, and second-year law student, Adam.
And, everyone, a very special good night from the New York control room.
Good night, Charles, Elizabeth, Evil.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
