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American Morning
Search for Miners Halted; Qatar Diplomat Visiting Terrorist; Gingrich Blasts Obama
Aired April 09, 2010 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It is Friday, April 9th. Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING.
I'm Jim Acosta, in for John Roberts this morning.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Good to have you with us this morning.
ACOSTA: Hey, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
CHETRY: And I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us. We have a lot to talk about today.
In the next 15 minutes we're going to be talking about the story out of West Virginia this morning.
ACOSTA: Right.
CHETRY: Unfortunately a big setback. We were updated about an hour and a half ago and what they've told us is that the four missing miners still not found and that the rescue crews were actually pulled out as they attempted another rescue this morning. It's because of a fire. They believe they saw smoke indicating there is a fire underground.
We're going to get a live report on the next step in this search in a moment.
ACOSTA: And a diplomat from Qatar who was arrested after joking about setting his shoes on fire during a flight to Colorado was heading to Denver to visit a jailed al Qaeda inmate at Colorado supermax prison. So, what was he up to?
Barbara Starr with a live report from the Pentagon in just a moment.
CHETRY: And former House speaker, Newt Gingrich, laying into President Obama in a speech that had all the trappings of a presidential run.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: The president of the United States, the most radical president in American history, has now thrown down the gauntlet to the American people. He has said: "I run a machine. I own Washington, and there's nothing you can do about it." And that's where we are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, he told a crowd of conservatives at the Southern Republican Leadership conference that they can win in 2010. We're going to be talking with "STATE OF THE UNION" host Candy Crowley. She was there and she's going to be joining us a little bit later this hour.
Also, of course, the amFIX blog is up and running. Join the conversation right now. We want to hear from you on what's going on in the news this morning. CNN.com/amFIX, and we'll be reading your comments throughout the hour.
ACOSTA: That's right. There is a lot to talk about this morning.
But we begin the hour with a heartbreaking development in the search for four missing miners in West Virginia. Rescue teams forced to abandon the search after they stumbled upon some major problems underground this morning. There is a fire is burning deep inside the mine -- all the smoke and deadly gas making the mission just too dangerous to continue.
Brooke Baldwin is live at the scene of the search.
Brooke, time is clearly running out. What do they do at this point?
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, you can understand here, this is really day five now since that explosion went off on Monday afternoon. And the rescue, the urgency here really ratcheted up since this third rescue attempt really has proven to be unsuccessful.
Here's what we know now. We know those rescue crews, those 16 men, they're now out of the mine. And right now, the priority is placed on these boreholes.
We've talked about the drilling. We've talked about the borehole. And in the past couple of days, the priority has been on the ventilation, improving the air deep down inside the mine.
But this is a slight game change. Really now, the emphasis is getting that borehole and placing a camera inside that borehole so that they will be able to see if this final rescue chamber has been deployed. In the governor's only words, he talks about this being a game-changer.
How exactly will this work? Here is a federal mining official. This is Kevin Stricklin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN STRICKLIN, U.S. MINE SAFETY & HEALTH ADMINISTRATION: The intent is to drill feverishly and get that in as soon as we can. The estimated time is somewhere around noon. Now, when that borehole goes in, the thing that we want to do is deploy the camera, stick it down the borehole, and see if that chamber has been deployed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, essentially, Jim, that is when we will know, once we get those first images through that camera around noontime Eastern, we'll know whether or not that rescue chamber has been deployed -- meaning, we will know if this will go from a rescue effort to possibly recovery -- Jim.
ACOSTA: Right. And, Brooke, this sounds like a race against the clock for the rescuers. If any of the miners made it into the rescue chamber -- and this is the question that everybody is asking -- just how long can they stay in there and survive?
BALDWIN: Right. Great question.
What we're hearing in these rescue chambers, they have enough food, water and oxygen for 56 men to sustain themselves for 96 hours. That's four days.
Keep in mind, we're talking about just four missing miners. So, at least, the chances of survival are up in terms of oxygen. The 96-hour mark ends this afternoon, perhaps into tomorrow, really is that final time when these four men can possibly survive -- Jim.
ACOSTA: All right. Brooke Baldwin there for us in West Virginia -- thanks, Brooke.
CHETRY: There also new developments this morning in the case of a diplomat from Qatar who sarcastically told air marshals he was trying to set his shoes on fire while on a flight to Colorado. It turns out that Mohammed al-Madadi was heading to Denver to visit a jailed al Qaeda inmate in a supermax prison.
Barbara Starr joins us live from the Pentagon.
So, Barbara, let me just ask you a couple of things right now. When people hear that, it sort of makes you turn your head. But as we understand it, this is quite common that diplomats will go and visit perhaps jailed al Qaeda members to just see how they're doing.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It is indeed, Kiran. Under diplomatic rules, representatives of countries often do go when their citizens are in American jails, al Qaeda or not, and visit them and see -- check in on how they are doing possibly, of course, to report back to their families.
This Qatari diplomat, Mohammed al-Madadi, apparently, was doing that on his way to Colorado to visit this man, Ali al-Marri, an al Qaeda operative, if you will, who is serving an eight-year jail term in the supermax prison in Colorado, pled guilty to providing material support for terrorism.
Now, the Qatari diplomat, Mr. al-Madadi, may have been on his way to Colorado. But now, he's going to be on his way home. Both Qatari and U.S. State Department officials agreeing that's the best way to handles this matter going forward, because he has diplomatic immunity, of course, he cannot be charged. But he will be going home. He will be leaving the United States.
Diplomatic immunity or not, the rules are the rules, you don't smoke on airplanes. You don't make jokes about setting your shoes on fire. His diplomatic career in the United States is now pretty much over -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Now, what if this wasn't a diplomat? For example, what if you -- me, you, or anybody else: "A," smoked on the airplane, and then, "B," made that type of off-the-cuff comment, of course, in a much more charged environment in the wake of 9/11, would we be facing criminal charges right now?
STARR: Well, I think it's entirely possible, because, you know, whenever you are on the airplane, we always hear those announcements from the flight attendant, no smoking in the bathrooms. It's a federal violation. The U.S. government takes these things very seriously. Everybody is, of course, to obey the rules.
You know, diplomats with that diplomatic immunity -- I think it should be probably be said: 99 percent of the time, diplomats, of course, do obey the laws in the United States. They all know they have diplomatic immunity. But overwhelmingly, most of them absolutely do obey the laws. Everybody knows you're not supposed to smoke on airplanes.
So, technically, they can't charge this man. But any U.S. citizen without diplomatic immunity, most certainly, I believe, probably would face charges -- Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Barbara Starr for us this morning -- thanks.
ACOSTA: The National Weather Service is now confirming reports of a tornado sighting in Enterprise, Alabama, this morning, Kiran. The twister apparently touching down yesterday. There are no reports of injuries, but some homes did suffer some structural damage.
So, you know, we're in April. This is going to happen.
CHETRY: And when you have those vast temperature changes --
ACOSTA: Right.
CHETRY: -- it makes for a lot of volatile weather out there.
Rob Marciano has been tracking all of it.
Hey, there, Rob. So, this severe storm threat that we saw some of yesterday, is that pretty much over today?
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, I think so. And there were five reports of tornadoes including that one near Enterprise. But for the year, guys, we've been way down. I mean, less than a third of the average for the amount of tornadoes we should see by this time of the year.
And now that we're getting into primetime, certainly, next month will be a little bit more active. But if this trend continues, with that cool Gulf of Mexico, especially -- who knows, we may go through the rest of this next couple of months unscathed. That would be next.
All right. Showers and thunderstorms from that cold front that's spawned the severe weather yesterday are now moving off to the east. It's across parts of the Northeast where you're waking up to a bit of a wet start from New York up to Hartford, Boston, parts of Stanford and through Warwick, Rhode Island, as well.
Temperatures, mid-50s, but behind the front, into the 30s. So, cooler air on the way certainly for the weekend. And it will be breezy as far south as, say, Augusta, Georgia, where the second round play of the Masters tees it up and it should be gorgeous stuff.
Sixty-eight in Atlanta, 62 degrees is expected in New York City, and 56 after a chilly, chilly day in Chicago.
Not a huge threat for severe weather today, that's good news. As we get into the middle of April, it would be nice if we could round out the month with below average tornadoes as well.
Jim and Kiran, back up to you.
CHETRY: All right. Sounds good, Rob. Thanks so much.
ACOSTA: Thanks, Rob.
CHETRY: Well, happening right now, two NASA astronauts are wrapping up the first of three spacewalks planned for the shuttle Discovery's mission in space. A pair of specialists replaced an ammonia tank outside of the International Space Station that had run out. They also retrieved an experimental device that's been capturing micro-particles in space. And they will bring that back to earth for a group of Japanese scientists to study.
ACOSTA: And NASA had its eye on the sky for another reason late last night. A newly discovered asteroid zipped by earth around 10:00 p.m. Eastern. You may have noticed that, Kiran.
CHETRY: I missed it. I blinked.
ACOSTA: Oh, that's right. And we were sleeping.
It was about 270,000 miles away, which is actually pretty close when you're talking about space. But the asteroid, we should mention, it was actually small compared to other comets and space rocks. And scientists caution, we earthlings were never in any danger with it.
CHETRY: So, we're not going to go the way of the dinosaur.
ACOSTA: Big relief there. Yes, that's right.
CHETRY: OK.
Well, still ahead: Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich digs into President Obama. He calls him the most radical president in history. Much more was also said at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference. It's going on right now in New Orleans.
And our own Candy Crowley is there. She's going to join us with more on what was said and what's going on, and also talking about the RNC chair, Michael Steele. A rough week -- but is he on the road to recovery?
Ten minutes past the hour.
ACOSTA: No asteroid there either.
CHETRY: Not yet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
ACOSTA: There they are. There they are. We won't talk about that. I think that was Kiran's feet but we won't go there.
CHETRY: And two pairs of shoes under the desk. But you know what, we're not talking about.
ACOSTA: But, who's counting?
There was no mercy down in New Orleans -- an all-out attack on the Obama administration last night. The Southern Republican Leadership Conference that is going on right now in New Orleans. Sarah Palin will be the headliner today.
CHETRY: Yes. She's going to have a tough act to follow though after former House Speaker Newt Gingrich laid into the White House last night.
Here's what the former speaker was saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: The president of the United States, the most radical president in American history, has now thrown down the gauntlet to the American people. He has said: "I run a machine. I own Washington, and there's nothing you can do about it."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
ACOSTA: That's OK.
Joining us now from the convention is CNN's chief political correspondent and host of "STATE OF THE UNION," Candy Crowley.
Good morning, Candy. It sounds like Newt Gingrich is running for president. Correct me if I'm wrong there.
(LAUGHTER)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it does, but it always sounds like Newt Gingrich is running for the president.
ACOSTA: That's true.
CROWLEY: Let's say he's is in those sort of "leaving the door open" times. He, in fact, was asked that by a member here. Obviously, he is extremely popular among this group of conservative activists. And he was asked that question. He said, well, sometime in the future, we'll sit down and discuss that.
So, look, if you -- if you're a presidential possibility, people tend to listen to you a little more. People tend to put you on TV a little more. And it's certainly something he has discussed over a long period of time and even in the last time around. So, we'll see.
But at the moment, it's sort of the stock answer of what we'll see down the road. But there is -- there is no doubt that in this crowd, he would certainly get unanimous support after last night. In many ways, a vintage Newt Gingrich, you heard him called "the most radical administration in history." It was just sort of laden with sarcasm about the president and things that he's done.
But all the speakers were pretty much along those same lines. Liz Cheney was here, the daughter of the former vice president. She talked, you know, said that, in fact, the U.S. treatment, the Obama administration's treatment of Hamid Karzai has been childish and dangerous. So, there's been a lot of -- a lot of red meat to chew on for these activists.
CHETRY: And so, I want to ask you about this as well, because Newt Gingrich came out supporting RNC chair, Michael Steele, saying, you know, let's stop the circular firing squad -- pretty much saying that, you know, our real targets are Nancy Pelosi and others in Congress and in the Senate, not necessarily our own party chair.
And you also heard some words of support from Sarah Palin and others.
After a tough week, I mean, is this it? I mean, is this sort of call of support from some of these top leaders just going to be good enough for Michael Steele to sustain his chairman post?
CROWLEY: I suspected sort of early on that he is in fact, going to survive for several reasons. One is that it is really not up to these party insiders, the sort of headline people who are talking. It is up to the people who elected Michael Steele. And that's the Republican National Committee. Generally, State Chairman, activists in the state, about 170 of them.
Now, some of them have come out and said, you know, a couple, have come and said, well I think he should go. But the fact of the matter is, Michael Steele can look at three really big elections that he has won since the -- helped win with the RNC, money in RNC organization.
You also are right up against a November election that's very important to the Republican Party. It is a huge distraction. I will tell you, having asked everyone here after their speeches, people in the audience, they don't want to talk about Michael Steele. They said, look, it's over. This is a Democratic thing. This is a media thing. You know, we are going to move on. He is raising great money. We have elections. So, they really want to refocus, they say, certainly our attention.
ACOSTA: And turning the page, Candy, President Obama is heading home from Prague after striking that deal with Russia on nuclear arms cuts. But, he has to sell it to the Senate, which could be very difficult. I have got to wonder how somebody like John McCain would vote on this treaty when he is being primaried out in Arizona by the tea party in the form of J.D. Hayward. This is going to be difficult.
CROWLEY: Yes, it may be difficult. But in the end, any kind of arms control tends to be something that they get bipartisan support for. They have been working on it since prior to the agreement being signed. They have been talking to Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill. Certainly, there will be some blow back where we are seeing it. Overall, this looks like something they are going to get and I think probably the good thing will be that this may not come up until after the elections.
CHETRY: I got you. Well, what's coming up on your show this weekend?
CROWLEY: Haley Barber, Governor of Mississippi is going to be here and will be talking to us about Sarah Palin among other things, we have Michael Steele, but also about the state of the States. You did a little of that earlier on the show, and then kind of a treat. There is a new HBO and CNN being sort of sister stations. HBO is putting out a new series tonight called "Treme". The creator is David Simon who did "The Wire." It's about New Orleans. It's about street musicians. So, we are going to talk to Simon and to one of the lead actors.
ACOSTA: Yes, there is a ton of buzz on that show right now. It is going to be amazing to watch especially in this anniversary year, a big anniversary coming up for Hurricane Katrina and the folks down in the gulf coast. Candy Crowley, thanks so much for breaking that down for us this morning. We will see you on Sunday. We want to have our viewers make sure they tune in this Sunday. "State of the Union" with Candy Crowley. That is going to be at 9:00 o' clock Eastern right here on CNN.
CHETRY: All right. Candy just alluded to it a little bit, 33 states out of money. They don't have the money to pay for jobless benefits for out-of-work Americans. Many, many states right now bleeding red ink. Christine Romans "Minding Your Business" on how it could affect you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: 20 minutes past the hour. Christine Romans is here "Minding Your Business". We have been talking about the problems right now for many states, 33 of them, having trouble in terms of how they are paying for jobless benefits.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Not even having trouble. They ran out of money. I mean, they just ran clear out of money.
CHETRY: They are still paying them though, right? They are getting money?
ROMANS: They are still paying them. You are absolutely right. They are borrowing money from the Federal Government so that they can pay your unemployment check. Thirty-three states simply insolvent in terms of jobless funds. Four states on the brink. They have borrowed from the government almost $39 billion dollars.
It's the usual suspects, as you said earlier. California, Ohio, Michigan. It's the places with the really big, high unemployment rates but also the huge budget gaps. Some of the folks who studied this say that states during good times, some of these states didn't do enough to make sure that they were stocking enough away for a rainy day.
The states that did do enough are these that you see on the screens right now, states also that have a lower unemployment rate. They haven't been taxed as much. The very time when 11.5 million people are basically surviving or trying to survive on an unemployment check, it is exactly the time when less money is going into the system. Because where does the money come from? It comes from employer taxes on wages.
ACOSTA: You can already feel the debate beginning as to how long can we continue jobless benefits with a recovery that's beginning? It is a jobless recovery in many ways.
ROMANS: The Senate is talking right now, there are 200,000 people who just rolled off their benefits because the Senate went on vacation without approving another extension. So, you are right. This debate is going to pick up. It looks as though Senate Democrats want to extend a retroactive extension to about 200,000 people.
There are 1 million people who are going to lose their benefits just because they have run out of time by the end of this month. You have to wonder at what point do you make this assessment that we are not going to keep extending unemployment benefits. It costs like $10 billion a month. It's expensive. But we still have long-term unemployed who don't really have good prospects yet. What's that balance? What is the government going to do about it?
CHETRY: What is your "Romans' Numeral"?
ROMANS: 218 days. I have used a variation of this one before, but it keeps changing. 218 days if you lost your job today, you could expect to be out of work for 218 days. It's the average period of unemployment for people. The duration of unemployment, as they call it. 218 days is about 32 weeks roughly 32 weeks. That is a long time. We have always, for years, heard, put away three to six months for a rainy day in case you lose your jobs, three to six months of expenses.
ACOSTA: That is not enough.
ROMANS: It is clearly not enough. And it shows why so many people are using and demanding more unemployment benefits. Because they are out of work longer than we have been in the past. It shows we didn't save enough money for this rainy day. If we did --
CHETRY: We have blown through it.
ROMANS: We have blown through it. Now, we are in the kiddy's college fund just trying to pay the mortgage.
CHETRY: That's tough. All right. Christine Romans for us, thank you.
ACOSTA: Thanks, Christine. Coming up, Tiger shoots his first round. It is his best ever at the Masters. But people are watching more than just golf down there in Georgia. What's the deal with that Nike ad, by the way? Tiger talks about it. So does Carol Costello. That is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: You cannot avoid it. You are right. Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It is day one or now it is day two. It was day one of the Masters yesterday. Tiger Woods actually had people for just a moment talking about his golf game instead of his other stuff.
CHETRY: Because he shot his best first round ever after all of that. After all of the attention, after the scandal. How many people were watching that he shot a four under 68, finishing two shots off of the lead. He often turned to his seemingly supportive fans in the gallery raising his cap mouthing thank you. The question is, are they there to see a comeback or something else? Carol Costello is live in Washington. Tiger has people talking yet again, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, he does. There could have been 20 million people watching Tiger Woods tee off yesterday at the Masters. Most of the people at the Masters, mind you, they were out and out fans or the Masters would probably kick those people out. For the people watching at home, we were wondering why they were watching? Were they watching to see Tiger play great golf or were they watching for more prurient reasons.
We talked about this at 7:25 A.M. Eastern this morning. And we had a lot of response on our blog. We would like to read some of the comments because I posed the question, are we watching because we want to see a train wreck, we want to see Tiger fail, do badly. Do we want to see someone throw something at him? Or do we really want him to do well? One psychologist told me that really people are waiting to see a train wreck.
So, I had a lot of blog comments. You guys have some too. So, why don't you start? Take it away. Hit me. A lot of people said, nobody cares about Tiger Woods. Why are you talking about this on CNN? It's ridiculous.
CHETRY: All right. All right. One of them says, you asked the question, you know, are people crazy about Tiger, they can't stop talking about him? Paul writes, no, Carol, I didn't hear Tiger's comments at the dinner table or the lunch counter. Only in the media. The story is media driven.
COSTELLO: I must be hanging with the wrong people then because I hear it all the time. Tiger Woods' face is on every gossip magazine out there. If people really weren't interested, those magazines wouldn't place Tiger Woods and his many mistresses on the cover of magazines.
CHETRY: A lot of people aren't happy with the ad either, that have been writing in. They say that they think it is sickening, that it's the low road and shame on Nike, this is K.C. writing in at 7:23. I will not support the company again. There are many other competitors to choose from. A lot of people. You thought it was a little bit in bad taste?
ACOSTA: It is painful to watch. I mean, you just have to wonder, was it even necessary judging by the reaction down in Augusta's? Clearly getting a mulligan from the fans, Carol.
COSTELLO: He is getting a mulligan from the fans. But again, we are all talking about it. Numerous articles have been written about it. Let's watch a bit of this ad right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to find out what your thinking was. I want to find out what your feelings are? And did you learn anything?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Of course, that was the voice of Tiger Woods deceased father.
After he teed off in the Masters and shot that great game -- I guess it is not a game yet. He did very well yesterday. He held a press conference and reporters asked him about that ad and why he let Nike use his deceased father's voice to kind of sell his image. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TIGER WOODS, GOLFER: Well, I think it is very apropos. I think that's what my dad would say. It's amazing how my dad can speak to me from different ways, even when he is long gone. He is still helping me. And I think any son who has lost a father who meant so much in their life, I think they would understand this spot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: I'll let you decide whether you understand the spot or not. I want your blog comments to keep on coming, CNN.com/amfix. Keep them could go. We are ready to take it.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Carol, you love when people agree with you?
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: I do, I do. Come on, hit me.
CHETRY: All right, Carol, thanks.
COSTELLO: Sure.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Carol.
In the meantime, we need to turn to a big breaking story in politics. This just in to CNN. Representative Bart Stupak from Michigan is retiring. He has been under fire for supporting health care reform. Our senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash joins us live on the phone. Dana, this appears to be happening.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It does appear to be happening according to several Democratic sources who are familiar with Stupak's decision. We are in Congressman Stupak's district because the tea party made its way here. They were planning to be here for five stops to try to force Stupak to resign.
But guess what -- Stupak made that decision himself. He is going to have a press conference at 12:30 eastern to formerly announce his retirement.
This is something we knew was potentially in the works. We reported earlier this week that he informed Democratic leader in Washington that he was considering this, that he had not made a decision.
And President Obama himself actually called Bart Stupak in the last couple of days begging him not to retire. The reason is this. This is a very conservative district up here in the upper peninsula of district. I have had this information for more than a half hour, and we haven't been able to get it to you because we had no cell phones. That gives you a sense of what this district is like.
And Bart Stupak is somebody who has fit this district, even though he is a Democrat. He is socially conservative, anti-abortion, he's pro-gun. And he has made it his business to come up, even though it is not easy geographically in the district, to come up here as much as possible and get to know his constituents up here.
And Democrats are very worried that this retirement will mean that the Democratic seat will go into Republican hands. But as you know, he has been under intense pressure from the left and right after his health care vote.
I can tell you that according to sources I'm talking to, what he will announce is that because of that health care vote. He will say h ran initially in 1992 on the promise to reform the health care system that made it easy for him to say that he can leave now.
But it is interesting that he is going to make this announcement while the tea parties are here, interesting theatre, if you will.
ACOSTA: Right, Dana. The tea party movement is going to interpret this as something that they can put in the win column and that this vote on health care reform cost Bart Stupak his job. And they will put forward the argument that it is going to cost others dearly come this fall.
BASH: They will make that argument. I can tell you that this is why there will be a lot of consternation here. I was already asking supporters about the possibility of him retiring. And the reason it will cause consternation is because he is not one of those vulnerable Democrats the tea party has gone after. He won really big here, 65 percent and more even though it is a conservative district.
And we would have had a tougher race here. But there were few people that thought he would actually lose this race had he run for reelection. That's why Democratic leaders were trying to beg him to run again. He decided not to. He will probably talk about the fact it is a difficult life for his family.
ACOSTA: The environment is clearly getting more toxic, Dana.
CHETRY: I think we just lost her.
You were covering the whole issue of Congressman Bart Stupak receiving death threats on the phone.
ACOSTA: One of many. But he said, being a former cop, he can take it.
CHETRY: Right, he did say that. As you said, they are going chalk it up as a win. Some people who took civility off the table because of the anger over health care reform, will they view this as a tactic that worked in this situation, even if he says I didn't make this decision based on being threatened or pushed around in any way?
ACOSTA: Dana, let's bring you back in. We understand we've established your connection. What about this argument that was this total breakdown in civility and politics and whether that had something to do with Congressman Stupak?
I guess he will let us all know about why he is stepping down, but clearly there was some seriously nasty stuff coming his way, those voice messages in particular? Dana, are you there?
BASH: I am here. Can you hear me?
ACOSTA: Yes. Dana, we were just talking about how the civility just broke down in the final hours of the health care reform debate. And Congressman Stupak was really on the receiving end of much of this. He was barraged with voicemail messages. You remember, Dana, how unbelievably nasty how some of those messages were.
Could it be about this breakdown in civility that's forcing him out? He will tell us all later, I suppose.
ACOSTA: I am hoping he can hear me. He will tell us all later. I have talked to the congressman himself at the very end of the congressional session before he came back here to Michigan. And there is no question. He was very rattled by those voicemails, by those faxes. And guess what? So was his family.
ACOSTA: He is a family man.
BASH: And not surprisingly.
CHETRY: Does it send a message that this is a way to win politically?
BASH: That's a very interesting question, Kirna, because I can tell you, in talking to some Democratic sources back in Washington when this was bubbling in the past 24-48 hours, what I was told about one source was, if Bart Stupak retires, and if the idea that the threats against him were part of it, there are going to be some members who are not happy about this in his own party, because everybody is getting threats.
There are some hard feelings in the Democratic Party still, especially by abortion rights Democrats, that he forced these votes and forced the subject of abortion and specifically very strict restrictions on taxpayer funding for abortion in the bill that many people didn't like. OK. He did that, and now, he is leaving.
So I think that already ahead of this decision anticipating this decision, I've heard some of that under the radar and I wouldn't be surprised if that bubbles up.
ACOSTA: Dana Bash reporting there from Michigan. Thanks so much for that.
That was -- I mean, that is really shocking news for the Democratic Party, because it was Bart Stupak who essentially made health care reform happen there at the very end. He was threatening essentially to bring down the whole house if these provisions weren't added through executive order by President Obama with respect to abortion and whether or not federal payments would go to abortion services and health care reform.
And he won that battle and carried that coalition of anti- abortion Democrats with him. And then he in essence carried the Democrats victory. He was the linchpin. It is going to be very interesting to hear what he has to say at the press conference later today.
CHETRY: That's right. And again, if you're just joining us, a nine-term Democratic congressman Bart Stupak going to be announcing that he is retiring from Congress. Dana Bash breaking that news. He is going to be holding a news conference later today.
Meanwhile, we will take a quick break. When we come back, you may have seen this video. It was linked to a Web site called wiki- leaks, and it was video of a 2007 battle that took place in an Apache helicopter in Baghdad. Two civilians were killed, a Reuters reporter and a photographer. It's raising a lot of questions about what happens in the heat of battle. We will be taking a look.
It's 39 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: Good morning. Welcome back.
Newly released video from a 2007 encounter in Baghdad is raising questions about the rules of engagement. Two Reuters journalists were killed after U.S. Apache helicopters opened fire.
CHETRY: And it also raises a lot of questions about what happens in the heat of battle and the fog of war, as many call it. The soldiers seem to mistake the journalists for insurgent.
Warning, this is disturbing video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, fire, fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shoot. Shoot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to move now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just engaged all eight individuals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: That clip was released on line by wikileaks.org. Here to help us understand what's going on through the minds of soldiers in these situations is former Navy psychiatrist Dr. Paul Ragan, an associate professor of psychiatry at the Vanderbilt School of Medicine. Thanks for being with us this morning.
DR. PAUL RAGAN, FORMER NAVY PSYCHIATRIST: Good morning, Kiran and Jim.
CHETRY: Obviously, the shooting is hard to watch. For many people to chatter on the radio is what makes it more disturbing. We are going to listen to a few bits of that so people can get a sense of what was happening shortly after they open fire. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crazy horse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those dead bastards.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice. Crazy horse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
We have a really quick one a few minutes later when they realized some kids had been in a van that came by to pick up one of the injured Reuters employees. This is after they had opened fire on the van.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's their fault for bringing their kids to the battle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: There you go.
You work with veterans that suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, and when you see a situation like the one that they are faced with and that you are faced with many times in battle, help us to put into context what we were seeing and hearing from the soldiers?
RAGAN: Well, I think that military leaders have known for thousands of years that danger, fear, uncertainty in the battle situation is what they need the training and the experience that they need to cope with.
But I think that the video is disturbing because I think it raises the question of whether or not they did cross the line with the rules of engagement.
I think the gallows chatter is something that's always going to happen. The technology is such that has it become too easy to kill? Where is the after-action report? Sometimes missions go wrong, and if we kill people we are supposed to be protecting -- the military is very good at investigating this. But I think that the pilots may have gotten overzealous. Why did bush-master give the go-ahead to fire on the van?
The fog of war, the ambiguity, the complexity, the volatile nature of war is something that has to be coped with in every battle.
ACOSTA: And the folks at Reuters were very upset about this, because they have been trying to get their hands on this video for years and all of a sudden it comes out on the website wikileaks.org.
And we don't want to extrapolate one episode out to diagnose all of our soldiers out there, but obviously after this many years and these types of conditions, and looking at this video, you have to wonder, how are they doing? What do you think, Doctor?
DR. PAUL RAGAN, DEPARTMENT OF PSYCHIATRY, VANDERBILT SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, I think -- I think that your point is well made. And I -- I help veterans every week who are still reliving these "Sophie's Choices" (ph), do you kill or not kill?
You're driving a fuel truck and a little girl with a hand grenade comes up to you. What do you do? And these things -- oftentimes, you shoot and ask questions later. And you find out it was a civilian.
ACOSTA: And these episodes stay with them forever, doctor?
RAGAN: Oh, these complex PTSD cases, these are patients for life. We don't have a cure. We can treat and we can prevent death and there's high suicide rates but these men live with these nightmares and increasingly women live with these nightmares. And I'm seeing them now in Iraqi war veterans.
CHETRY: And -- and so it also asks the larger question you know, it brings up the larger question of, is there adequate preparation? I mean, the way that we train our soldiers for war. And they've had to deal with very different things. I mean, many of them have said, oftentimes they are sent for battle, they learn survival skills, they learn all of the things they need to do militarily.
But they are running in some cases peace-keeping operations, nation building. They are teachers in some -- you know in some areas. And so there are so many unintended duties that come up as well, those in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Are we adequately preparing our soldiers mentally for everything they have to go through? And once their mission is over, what they go through on the back side?
RAGAN: Well, hey you raise a broad terrain there. And I think that the training is more than adequate. I think, in this particular video, you know the pilots have to ask for clearance at the fire. So they are up there in the aircraft that can be brought down with small arms or RPGs. The question is why the officer in charge gave the go- ahead.
ACOSTA: Right.
RAGAN: Officers are supposed to be able to tell people to stand down and cease-fire. But -- and then, when things go wrong, the military is better than anyone at these after-action reports.
ACOSTA: Yes.
RAGAN: But I think that this, what you are -- the last point you raised, Kiran, is that the -- as one veteran told me, who had PTSD, said there are three generations affected. There is the -- the parents of the soldiers, there's the soldiers and their families and then there is the soldiers' kids. Three generations are affected.
And so I think you have to be very careful before you send people into these ambiguous, dangerous, uncertain situations.
ACOSTA: And -- and doctor, obviously, I mean, I can hear some of the soldiers if they're watching this in Baghdad or Iraq right now saying, "Hey, you guys are taking one video and making us all look bad."
I mean, we should point out obviously they're doing an extraordinarily difficult job out there under unbelievable circumstances with deployments that just seem to last forever.
RAGAN: On the multiple deployments are what are -- you know, trauma's cumulative --
ACOSTA: Yes.
RAGAN: And so the multiple deployments are increasing the rates of PTSD.
ACOSTA: Well, we appreciate your time very much this morning, Dr. Paul Ragan, from Vanderbilt University, a great school down in Nashville, Tennessee.
RAGAN: Thank you.
ACOSTA: And it's good to talk to the folks down there in Nashville this morning. Thank you sir very much.
RAGAN: Thank you, Kiran. And thank you, Jim.
ACOSTA: I appreciate your time.
CHETRY: All right.
ACOSTA: All right, coming up after this next break, we're going to be talking to one congresswoman who knows all about crucial votes and the consequences that can come with them. You're going to stay with us.
We're talking about the breaking news that our story breaker Dana Bash just broke a few minutes ago that Congressman, Bart Stupak apparently stepping down from his post on Capitol Hill.
We're going to talk to a congresswoman who knows all about getting the boot when voters get mad. That's coming up after a break.
It's 48 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: All right. Welcome back to The Most News in the Morning. We're 8 minutes to the top of the hour. And we have some breaking news to tell you about we've been following in Congress.
ACOSTA: Big news, yes.
CHETRY: Yes, big news, Michigan Democrat, Congressman Bart Stupak, you may have heard his name a lot --
ACOSTA: Yes.
CHETRY: -- because he's played a pivotal role in passing health care. He is going to announce that he is retiring.
Our Dana Bash confirming that with several Democratic sources just moments ago.
ACOSTA: And for more on that we're joined on the phone by former Congresswoman Marjorie Margolies. And Congresswoman thanks for joining us this morning.
MARJORIE MARGOLIES, FORMER CONGRESSWOMAN OF PENNSYLVANIA: You're welcome.
ACOSTA: You might guess why we're calling you in the midst of this breaking news. You know all about votes that can come with consequences up on Capitol Hill.
Obviously, you can't read Bart Stupak's mind here but this is extraordinary and does it perhaps fit into the narrative that you found yourself in, in the early '90s?
MARGOLIES: Yes -- I don't think so, really. I think, Bart served a long time I think, just kind of watching, I saw him on the Hill the other day. I think he's depleted. You know, when --
ACOSTA: Yes.
MARGOLIES: -- when members of Congress say that they want to spend more time with their families, you just kind of roll your eyes and say, "Oh, please, spare me." I think that this may be true with him.
You know, he's served a long time. He really did stick up for what he believed in under really challenging circumstances. And -- the only word that I can think of is that he is depleted. He doesn't know whether he's going to win or lose. I -- I mean, I thought my chances of losing were pretty good.
ACOSTA: Congresswoman, just to give our viewers a sense as to what you went through. It was the early '90s. It was an important vote, crucial vote when President Clinton was in office.
Give us a little context what you went through and then we will get back to Congressman Stupak.
MARGOLIES: The short version is I had -- there were lots of things in the bill that I didn't like, I said and I opposed it. But I also knew, although that is hard to describe to voters, it's hard to explain, I knew that this had to pass. So I told the president that I would not let it go down. In other words I'd be his last vote --
CHETRY: This was the balanced (ph) budget and you ended up casting that last vote. You say that some of your Republican counterparts including Bob Walker, you said jumping up and down saying "Bye-bye Marjorie".
MARGOLIES: It was a quite a sight.
CHETRY: You talked about it being behavior more appropriate for young kids rather than members of Congress at the time.
(CROSSTALK)
MARGOLIES: Well, yes. I was sitting there saying, preserve your decorum, sir. That wasn't. I think it has gotten worse. I think the meanness --
ACOSTA: Yes, I was going to say that that's nothing compared to what Congressman Stupak faced after that health care vote, Marjorie. I mean you did not experience that level of hostility, did you, after that vote?
MARGOLIES: I don't know how to compare it. I had to be taken out of meetings here in my district by the police. And there was a lot of --
ACOSTA: Oh, wow.
MARGOLIES: There was a lot of anger but I thought I could explain it, because I did think that we had to move on to other things. I thought that we weren't -- there was a huge deficit reduction portion of the bill, which of course, I don't have to tell you about in the '90s.
But people were angry and they weren't listening. And I think that that's what he -- that's what happened in his district too. And I think he just felt like he had served. I mean, I did a drive-by. I didn't feel like I had served. I felt like I had served a little bit.
But I think that he just -- he was worn out. And I --
CHETRY: Can I just ask you one question, former Congresswoman? The one part that I don't understand still and please if you can shine light on this, basically he fought very hard to get language in the bill -- he is the one that threatened to vote against it, as well as many other pro-life Democrats if there wasn't some language in there making sure that federal money didn't go to pay for abortions.
In the end, he got that through the signing of this executive order and decided to vote for health care. Why does that have some of these people so angry who support -- who are pro-life?
MARGOLIES: I think that this is a time when people are not listening the way they should be listening. They're just -- they are just angry. They are clinging to their anger. The whole -- if you listen to some of the things that these people say, you think, "Oh, my gosh, what planet are they on?"
There is this incredible anger which is fed by more anger which is fed by people who really are very sincere but they -- a lot of them just don't know what they are talking about. And it feeds itself. I think he just kind of gave up. I think it is very sad because he is a very decent guy.
ACOSTA: Well, Former Congresswoman Marjorie Margolies, calling us from the City of Brotherly Love, no less. Thanks so much for your -- thanks so much for your perspective this morning.
MARGOLIES: You're welcome.
Bart Stupak may be feeling he got Margoliesed (ph) if that's a term up there in Michigan.
CHETRY: Or Mezvinsky'd (ph) because she says everyone always pronounces her name wrong, too.
Well, we'll find out more about it from Dana Bash coming up. But meanwhile, we are going to take a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: Again, welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
Breaking news coming in from our story breaker -- our congressional correspondent -- senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
Bart Stupak, the congressman up there -- the embattled congressman has announced he is retiring. CNN has confirmed with several Democratic sources that the Congressman will make that announcement later today.
CHETRY: Now, if the name sounds familiar to you, it's because Bart Stupak, who is the 9-term pro-life Democrat there, has certainly taken a lot of heat. And his name has been in the news lately over the health care reform bill.
Both the right and left attack him as we had talked about before. He got death threats left on his answering machine; he and his family under police protection in the wake of that vote. He eventually agreed to support the legislation. And that was only, though, after receiving confirmation from the White House that federal money would not go to fund abortions. But that didn't do a lot to tamp down the anger from some on the right.
ACOSTA: That's right. It's a big story; it's going to be developing all day long.
And it is a good thing we have T.J. Holmes down in Atlanta. He is going to take it up next for us. He is in the "CNN NEWSROOM". Good morning T.J. You have a lot on your plate this morning.
