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Nancy Grace
Two Cinder Blocks Pulled from River in Search for Haleigh
Aired April 16, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news in the homicide of 5-year-old Florida girl Haleigh Cummings. As police announce Haleigh is dead, investigators pull items for testing from the St. John`s River. Multiple persons of interest identified and major developments are emerging tonight.
After Misty Croslin`s grandmother appears on this show last night, insisting Misty Croslin, Tommy Croslin and their cousin Joe are all involved in Haleigh`s death, WFXT (SIC) reporting two cinderblocks have been pulled from the St. John`s River. Croslin`s grandmother laying out multiple versions she says the Croslins told her about the night Haleigh vanishes, all of them ending in the little girl`s brutal death, one of them that a rope attached with a brick was placed around Haleigh`s neck, then she`s thrown into the river.
After we see Misty Croslin on video in handcuffs standing on the dock of the St. John`s River with investigators, we now learn she wasn`t the only one at the river with cops, Tommy Croslin also bringing investigators to the very same location where dive teams have been searching for a murder weapon. Is there finally a break in the search for Haleigh? And have the 5-year-old little girl`s remains been found?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Items have been recovered at the search site.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sources telling CNN affiliate WJXT that two cinderblocks have been taken out of the St. John`s River. Forensic testing now taking place.
JEFF HARDY, PUTNAM COUNTY SHERIFF: I`m not going to discuss the particular items that I`ve taken for analysis.
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER: The cops said there was a whole bunch of bricks about 50 feet away, but I`d never seen any bricks at all.
HARDY: People are starting to talk.
MISTY CROSLIN: I don`t know where she is!
HARDY: People are starting to cooperate.
MISTY CROSLIN: There`s nothing to break me on.
HARDY: I think she`s come to realize that, you know, she`s in trouble.
LISA CROSLIN, MISTY`S MOTHER: I see the smile.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It hurts so many lives.
FLORA HOLLARS, MISTY`S AND JOE`S GRANDMOTHER: First thing that I was told was that Joe had killed her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what to believe anymore.
GRACE: What is the second version?
HOLLARS: I was told that Misty had knocked her in the head and killed her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not believe anything.
GRACE: Who knows if any of them are true? The three have not been named official suspects or persons of interest.
MISTY CROSLIN: (INAUDIBLE) I`ll take a polygraph.
(INAUDIBLE) a polygraph.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: I don`t know anything about her flunking a polygraph.
GRACE: I mean, royally flunked it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He tried to make an arrest.
HOLLARS: I told her, Baby, don`t cry. This is something you should have said a long time ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re trying to bring somebody to justice.
HOLLARS: She says that, Nanny, I was scared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This little girl right here and her family...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bring her back.
CUMMINGS: Somebody took my little girl!
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: I just want our baby to come home.
MISTY CROSLIN: I`m not going to be in this jail forever, Ma.
LISA CROSLIN: I know, baby.
MISTY CROSLIN: They`re not going to keep me locked up forever, I`m telling you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Major developments tonight in the homicide of 5-year- old Florida girl Haleigh Cummings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN affiliate WJXT reporting their sources claim cops have pulled two cinderblocks from the St. John`s River.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you recall, she said that the back door was propped open with a cinderblock.
MISTY CROSLIN: There was a brick, like, a cinderblock, that was holding the screen door open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigators were looking for that same cinderblock at that time.
HOLLARS: ... wrapped a yellow rope around her and carried her to the dock and tied a brick around the bottom of the -- the end of the rope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cinderblocks, along with other evidence, have been sent to be tested. Law enforcement refuses to comment.
GRACE: It`s amazing how bits of the truth are woven into that story.
HARDY: And that`s what this is all about here today.
Haleigh Cummings is most likely deceased.
HANK CROSLIN, MISTY`S FATHER: Only one that knows is the people that were there.
HARDY: I`m going to call it a homicide.
HANK CROSLIN: You think she can come home?
MISTY CROSLIN: Of course, Dad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a huge river, and we believe that she could potentially have been put in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s hard to hear somebody tell you that your child or your grandchild is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigative team has identified persons of interest in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve always had the same characters, the same list of suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just going to say several.
HOLLARS: They have no remorse or something!
HARDY: I will not be mentioning any names at this time.
MISTY CROSLIN: I`m not hiding anything.
JOE OVERSTREET, MISTY`S COUSIN: I didn`t do it.
TOMMY CROSLIN, MISTY`S BROTHER: I don`t know where she is.
GRACE: I want to remind everyone that according to police, none of the three are persons of interest or suspects.
HANK CROSLIN: I want them to find Haleigh, too, and find out who did this to Haleigh. I don`t care who it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Let`s go straight out to Ellie Jostad, producer for NANCY GRACE. Ellie, there is some major news coming out of Florida tonight. What is it?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. That`s right, Jean. Our affiliate, WJXT -- that`s our affiliate down in Jacksonville, Florida -- is reporting that two cinderblocks have been pulled during that massive search in the St. John`s River, that search going on for the better part of this week.
Now, the significance of cinderblocks would be, we heard last night from Flora Hollars. This is the grandmother of both Misty Croslin, her brother Tommy Croslin, as well as his cousin, Joe Overstreet. And the grandmother laid out a scenario that she says she`s heard from her relatives in Florida that Haleigh`s body was tied with a rope, the other end, a cinderblock attached, and that she was thrown in that river. So if cinderblocks have been found -- and authorities will not comment on anything found at this point -- that could be a major development.
CASAREZ: Now, Ellie, we do know that there was an anthropologist at the scene...
JOSTAD: That`s right.
CASAREZ: ... that was going through what was found in the river. Some was discarded, some was sent on for testing. Do we know if those cinderblocks were moved on for further testing?
JOSTAD: Well, we do not know that, as far as what authorities are telling us. However, WJXT is reporting that their sources say those items have been sent for testing, that those cinderblocks have been sent for testing. So -- and we`ve also heard, as you know, that there was a cinderblock propping open the door in that house that night. We`ve also heard there was a pile of cinderblocks nearby the home where Haleigh went missing. So if cinderblocks are found in that river, perhaps we can get a match to cinderblocks found back at the home.
CASAREZ: All right. To Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, standing by live in Satsuma, Florida. Natisha, I know that you have spoken personally with Flora Hollars. She was on this show last night. When you spoke with Flora Hollars, Grandma, about the cinderblock, what more did she tell you? How did she describe it?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Jean, just as she described it on the show, the same scenario that she gave. And she said there were three different scenarios. But specifically, the one with the cinderblock, she said that Haleigh was thrown into the river with a rope tied to a cinderblock. She did not even know if she was dead before she hit the water.
CASAREZ: To Marlaina Schiavo. You have been on this case from the very beginning. You have been in the home in Florida. You first talked to us about this case, talking about cinderblocks, Marlaina. It has been a recurring theme from the beginning of this case. Talk to us about that.
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Jean, as Ellie was saying earlier, that, you know, Misty, when she first told the story about the night Haleigh went missing, she said the back door was propped open with a cinderblock. But Jean, what`s interesting about that scenario is that Ronald Cummings has also said that they never used that back door. He said it was always locked.
So putting together the pieces of what we`re finding out now, between the cinderblock and the possible murder scenes, or crime scenes, rather, someone from the inside would have had to open the door from the inside, unlock it, and then prop the door open.
CASAREZ: Especially if a little girl had to be carried out. Marlaina, also, wasn`t there cinderblocks in the vicinity of the home we heard about early on?
SCHIAVO: Yes, there were. There were cinderblocks. There were a pile in one area. Plus, when we were down there, there were also just random cinderblocks sort of everywhere. So if someone wanted access to cinderblocks, they definitely could find them around Ronald Cummings`s home.
CASAREZ: All right. We`ve got a very special guest tonight. It is a member of the Croslin family. It is a primetime exclusive. We`ve heard about her a lot, but we`ve never heard from her. And we do tonight. I would like to welcome from Boston, Massachusetts, Chelsea Croslin tonight. She is the sister-in-law of Misty Croslin. Chelsea, thanks so much for joining us.
CHELSEA CROSLIN, MISTY`S SISTER-IN-LAW: Thank you.
CASAREZ: You lived in Satsuma when this all happened. And I first want to ask you, since we`ve never heard from you, what was it like when Haleigh went missing over a year ago?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: It was the worst thing I`ve ever been through in my entire life.
CASAREZ: How did you find out?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Misty called me that morning, about 4:00, and told me that Haleigh was missing. And from there, everything happened.
CASAREZ: You know, last night, Flora Hollars, Grandma, came on, and she said a lot of things. In a nutshell, she said that Misty, Tommy and Joe have committed terrible, terrible crimes. First I want to know your reaction to all of that.
CHELSEA CROSLIN: I`ve always from day one believed that Joe did have some sort of part in Haleigh`s disappearance, just from the different things, from the van being moved, the scratch. I don`t believe that Tommy and Misty could do anything to harm a child.
CASAREZ: You were sent a letter from Misty in jail. We received a copy of that letter. And that letter that Misty wrote says to you, "He put me up with a knife, and he said that if he would come back and he`d kill me. He told me at the house he would kill me, so I didn`t know what to do." Who`s Misty talking about right there?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: She`s talking about Joe.
CASAREZ: Describe for me what she wrote in this letter in detail. It`s a little hard to read. But tell us all.
CHELSEA CROSLIN: The letter basically states that she -- Joe came in to steal the gun. She didn`t know the gun was gone. When she looked for the gun, the gun wasn`t there. Joe freaked out and took Haleigh. She said that she had seen Tommy in the back door, and when she looked back again, he was gone. So she said that she didn`t know what, you know, Tommy -- part Tommy might -- I don`t believe Tommy had a part in it, just she was implicating that maybe Tommy had known that Joe was there.
CASAREZ: We`re going to talk to Joe`s attorney in just a minute. But Chelsea, what would be the motive to do that? Why?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: I don`t see why anybody in the world would have motive to hurt a child.
CASAREZ: But you must have talked to people. What do people believe the motive for anyone to do something like that?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: I don`t know Joe. And as far as I know, I`ve been told Joe is -- is crazy. So I don`t know what he could do.
CASAREZ: And we want to say that cousin Joe is not a suspect in this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLLARS: Those three grandkids of mine is involved in this, and I don`t know why, but I`d sure like to know why. They have no remorse or something. But nobody decided to say anything until I broke Tommy on the phone Sunday. And yes, I`m the one that called the detectives. And yes, I`m the one that sent them to the river.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN affiliate WJXT reporting their sources claim cops have pulled two cinderblocks from the St. John`s River.
HARDY: Information has been obtained by investigators that lead them to believe that Haleigh Cummings is most likely deceased.
And I`m going to call it a homicide.
MISTY CROSLIN: We`ve told them everything that we know, but they don`t want to listen. They don`t want to listen, Daddy, I`m telling you!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Overstreet is distraught over this, that he doesn`t know where to turn, and he knows he didn`t have anything to do with the disappearance of Haleigh Cummings, but believes at this point that he`s being framed by people whose stories keep changing.
MISTY CROSLIN: They say, It`s not enough, It`s not enough. They want more. There is no more! I tell them and tell them and tell them, and they just don`t listen!
HOLLARS: I was told that Misty had knocked her in the head and killed her and that Joe and Tommy got rid of her.
GRACE: According to police, none of the three are persons of interest or suspects in Haleigh`s disappearance.
TOMMY CROSLIN: If I knew something, you`d know a long time ago. Leave me alone.
MISTY CROSLIN: I just can`t stand it, man! It drives me crazy, man! I hate they`re calling me a liar. I`m not a liar. I`m telling you the truth, so leave me alone!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sheriff has told us, though, that they`re going to do and work as long as it takes to find this physical evidence, which they believe is still there.
HARDY: This case has been going on for 14 months. People are finally starting to talk. Where that`s going to lead us, I don`t know. But we`re going to follow it to the end. And yes, we`re trying to make an arrest. We`re trying to bring somebody to justice for this little girl right here and her family. And that`s what this is all about here today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. You know, law enforcement had said on the record that they were looking for physical evidence in the St. John`s River, and our affiliate WJXT is reporting tonight that two cinderblocks were pulled from the river. They have been sent now for testing.
I want to go back out to Chelsea Croslin, who is with us tonight, the sister-in-law of Misty. Chelsea, you had mentioned before we went to break about a van. And I remember you talking to law enforcement early on about a van. You were using a van at that time in Florida, and that night, it was borrowed by someone. Is that right?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Yes, it is. It was my sister-in-law`s van.
CASAREZ: And who borrowed it that night?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Well, I borrowed it from my sister-in-law. And when I woke up the next day, the van was parked in a different spot than I had parked it. So I assumed that the van had been taken from the home that night.
CASAREZ: Do you know who drove it?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: If anybody drove it, it had to have been Joe.
CASAREZ: Why?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Because my husband was sleeping next to me. He had just been in a car accident and he was on medication. He was asleep hours before I was.
CASAREZ: What about Tommy? Why couldn`t Tommy have taken the van?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Because Tommy lived at least three miles from where my house was. And it was Tommy`s van, but he lent it to us that night. Joe would have had to have taken the van from my house to go back to that neighborhood. Tommy lived right next to where Misty and Haleigh did, about six houses apart.
CASAREZ: OK. All right, I want to bring in a special guest right now exclusively with us out of New Orleans, Louisiana, Mr. Shawn Sirgo. He is the attorney representing cousin Joe Overstreet, Misty Croslin and Tommy`s cousin.
Mr. Sirgo, thank you for joining us. You know, so much has been said in the last 24 hours directed solely at your client, Joe. First of all, I want your reaction on what Grandma said, Flora Hollars said, last night.
SHAWN SIRGO, ATTORNEY FOR JOE OVERSTREET: I really don`t have a reaction to what she said because it -- it`s hearsay. You have to understand, as attorneys, we`re trained to take evidence and look at its feasibility, its reliability. Can it stand the test? And law enforcement hasn`t tested this, to the best of my knowledge. So it`s just a statement being made by someone. And so until it`s substantiated, until it`s brought forward as evidence, then I really don`t have any reason to want to address it to any degree.
CASAREZ: All right. She said that your client committed murder. Those were her words.
SIRGO: Well, that would be surprising if she wasn`t in the area at the time an alleged murder happened. And it would also be surprising because no one else has said that -- has -- Joe has never admitted that he committed a murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLLARS: Misty`s too good with kids. Misty loves kids. She`s had an opportunity to hurt them all, and she`s kept every one of them. I don`t believe Misty had any involvement whatsoever!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement retrieved two cinderblocks from the St. John`s River, according to CNN affiliate WJXT, citing sources.
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?
MISTY CROSLIN: I just woke up and our back door was wide open, and we can`t find our daughter.
GRACE: What is her story about what happened that night?
CUMMINGS: She put Haleigh to bed, done some laundry, went to bed, and woke up to the door propped open.
GRACE: Has he ever talked to you about the night Haleigh went missing?
HOLLARS: No, ma`am.
GRACE: Have you asked him?
HOLLARS: Not really.
GRACE: Why?
HOLLARS: He just throws his hands up and says "F" it, and then he`ll get up and walk away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. We are also learning that it was actually Tommy that took investigators very early in the week, on Monday, initially to that river`s edge. And we also have with us tonight Terry Shoemaker. We`re going to talk to him in just a second. He`s the attorney for Ronald Cummings. He just returned from the jail talking to Ronald tonight.
SIRGO: I want to go to a caller. Linda in Maryland. Hi, Linda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean.
CASAREZ: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: Sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really admire your fair and unbiased reporting. I`ve got two quick questions.
CASAREZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Number one, did Joe ever take a polygraph? And number two, don`t you think they must have other credible sources beyond the grandmother? Because she just gets her information from Misty and Tommy.
CASAREZ: It`s a very good question. Let`s go to Shawn Sirgo. We`ve got the attorney right here. He is the attorney for cousin Joe Overstreet. Has Joe ever taken a polygraph, to your knowledge?
SIRGO: I have no knowledge that it`s viable (ph) to either acknowledge that he did or deny that he did. Our involvement in this case has been turned around a little bit. Initially, and even up until the last time we were interviewed by Florida enforcement, we were just being interviewed and being asked questions. The attack on Joseph by non-law enforcement, non-official entities has prompted us to respond to media`s requests to give some type of accounting for our position on this.
CASAREZ: Where was Joe that night? Where was Joe? I mean, was he driving around? Was he sleeping? Where was he? This happened very late at night.
SIRGO: He was sleeping, and he was woken up by the same phone call at approximately 4:00 AM. And from that point, he went to the hospital to see his relative who had been in an accident, and then after that went, you know, with the rest of the family to the sheriff`s department, if I`m not mistaken, to discuss what was going on. They all went out and put flyers out, you know, trying to help find the missing child.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sources telling CNN affiliate WJXT that two cinder blocks have been taken out of the St. Johns River. Cops refuse to comment.
JEFF HARDY, PUTNAM COUNTY SHERIFF: Haleigh Cummings is most likely deceased.
FLORA HOLLARS, MISTY CROSLIN AND JOE OVERSTREET`S GRANDMOTHER: Those three grandkids of mine is involved in this, and I don`t know why.
HARDY: I`m going to call it a homicide.
HOLLARS: They have no remorse or something.
HARDY: We`re hoping to make an arrest in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They`ve not named any suspects in the 5-year-old`s disappearance.
HARDY: However, the investigative team has identified persons of interest.
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Please, all we want is my child. That`s it.
JOE OVERSTREET, MISTY CROSLIN`S COUSIN: Sorry.
CUMMINGS: I just want my daughter back.
OVERSTREET: I can`t imagine what they`re going through. I didn`t do it.
HANK CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S FATHER: If they think Joe had something to do with it, go get his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) punk (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and put him in jail.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": But Misty was the last person to see Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think Misty has any I involvement in this?
HOLLARS: I don`t think Misty did.
MISTY CROSLIN, FORMER STEPMOM/BABYSITTER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: I didn`t do anything to that little girl. I would never hurt her.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Misty Croslin taken down to the dock of the St. Johns.
LISA CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S MOTHER: Don`t cry, baby. She knows you loved her.
GRACE: Pointing out a specific spot to police.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Florida authorities flew to Tennessee to question Croslin`s cousin, Joe Overstreet, for the third time.
H. CROSLIN: We told them that in the beginning. Tommy even told them that they thought -- he thought maybe Joe whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s being attacked.
CASAREZ: We know what he`s talking about. He`s talking about Misty Croslin, her brother Tommy. They`re both in jail.
M. CROSLIN: You know, me and Tommy sitting in jail and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) he`s just out doing whatever he wants.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Overstreet was in the area when Haleigh was reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did he see Haleigh on February 9th or 10th?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He saw her at some point. At some point he saw her.
OVERSTREET: Sorry. I didn`t do it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You didn`t do it?
OVERSTREET: No.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight.
CNN affiliate WJXT in Florida is reporting that two cinder blocks were pulled out of the St. Johns River. They are now being tested. They are also reporting that -- they are wondering if this could be the murder weapon. And this just comes a day after the grandmother of Misty and Tommy said a cinder block was involved in throwing the body of little Haleigh Cummings into the St. Johns River.
I want to go right now to the attorney for Ronald Cummings. Terry Shoemaker is joining us out of St. Augustine, Florida.
Mr. Shoemaker, thank you for joining us. I know that you have just visited Ronald Cummings today, your client, the father of Haleigh. How is he doing?
TERRY SHOEMAKER, ATTORNEY FOR RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER, JUST MET WITH RON IN JAIL: Considering, he`s holding up quite well. You know, he`s shocked by all the latest news, and he`s anxious to finally have an end to this and find out exactly what happened. But overall, he`s doing pretty well.
CASAREZ: Can you tell us procedurally, earlier in the week we know they called the family to the jail. We know that Ronald was taken somewhere. Can you -- procedurally, what happened to Ronald early this week when authorities came there?
SHOEMAKER: Well, originally, it probably would have been around Wednesday I think he was taken out of his cell and he had been in his cell on his own ever since he was arrested. He was taken over to the sheriff`s office.
They talked to him about what had transpired and the fact that there were some new tips that they were searching. He was then put back -- he has to be put back into general population at that time. He has been in general population ever since then.
And then last night one of the homicide detectives again came over and talked to him, gave him an update on what was going on and what they had found and what they were hoping to find.
CASAREZ: So you`re saying that he was taken from protective custody being alone, which he has been from the beginning, into general population?
SHOEMAKER: Yes. And -- yes, ma`am. And actually, that was Ronald`s request. He didn`t feel as though he was in any danger, and he didn`t think that he actually needed to be in any protective custody. And he asked to be put -- or placed back -- or into general population.
CASAREZ: Was he united -- was he united with his family on Wednesday when he was told things by authorities, or was he told by himself?
SHOEMAKER: That I`m not sure. I didn`t ask him if he was in the same room with his mother, and everyone else that was involved with that. His sister was there as well. So I can`t answer that.
CASAREZ: All right. All right. I want to go out to a caller right now. Jan in Maryland, hi, Jan.
JAN, CALLER FROM MARYLAND: Hello. How are you?
CASAREZ: I`m fine. Good evening. What`s your question?
JAN: I have a quick question. When Haleigh first went missing, you said that Misty was -- the little girl was asleep and she was doing her wash, her bed clothes. Did they ever check that for DNA?
CASAREZ: OK. All right. You know let`s go first of all to Chelsea Croslin, since we have her with us, who lived in Satsuma, was right there when it all happened.
Chelsea, what was the first story that you heard from Misty about what happened that night?
CHELSEA CROSLIN, MISTY CROSLIN`S SISTER-IN-LAW: Well, in the very beginning Misty told us that she didn`t know what happened and that she woke up and Haleigh was gone. She never gave us a story until I heard the story about Joe.
CASAREZ: She never gave you a story for all of those months.
All right, I want to go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author from Washington, D.C. tonight.
You know, the caller is talking about DNA, DNA of the clothes. You can touch on that, but I want to talk about the cinder blocks also. Can they test them for DNA?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, they`re not going to find anything. They`ve been sitting under that water forever. But the cinder blocks are an incredibly great piece of this puzzle and tells us a lot about where the crime scene went down.
Now we`re hearing about Joe. He`s in the house, and he supposedly doesn`t find a gun so, he steals Haleigh and runs away with her. And that`s ridiculous because he`s certainly -- if he did something to her -- is not going to come back to the house to get some cinder blocks then to take her down to the dock.
So those cinder blocks that are coming from the house prove that the crime actually went down in the house.
And the second thing I want to point out is we`re talking about the door being propped open so somebody can carry a body out. Well, that`s just ridiculous. It`s just a little teeny child and any parent can carry a child, open up a screen door and walk through it.
And if you have two people someone can hold the door up while the other one goes through. That cinder block was set up there to stage the crime to make it look like a stranger came in and kidnapped the child.
CASAREZ: You know, with all these people failing so many polygraphs, and we`ve heard that, why do you think authorities are taking this tip seriously?
BROWN: Well, they`ve learned -- they`ve gotten some good information. Obviously, the cinder blocks. So now they know who`s involved in the crime. They know Misty, since she was in the house, had to be involved in the crime. That`s the number one thing they want to know right there.
And then we`re going to look back at all the behaviors. We see one of the interesting things about Misty is that night when she said that the door was open -- can you imagine you wake up in the night and you see the door`s open and you`re not even scared?
You`re not running around freaking out, you`re not calling Ron right away, saying oh, my god, somebody is in the house. She is not even scared. Ron comes home, and he doesn`t even seem to -- he seems to know Haleigh is already dead. He doesn`t have any behaviors that show that he believes she`s alive.
I believe he knew already what was going on. So that`s I think why police are bringing him in to talk to him, to update him. They`re letting him know, we`ve got more information, people are starting to talk now, Ron. They`re starting to talk now, Ron.
CASAREZ: To Terry Shoemaker, Ronald Cummings` lawyer, you know, I remember Ronald being hysterical on that 911 phone call. And tell me if I`m wrong. But that phone call wasn`t made until he got home. And we heard Misty`s voice. But didn`t he force her to make that call?
SHOEMAKER: Yes. She didn`t make any calls until either she saw him pulling in the driveway or until he actually started coming in the house. And he confronted her and started asking her what was going on.
CASAREZ: Right. That`s what I thought.
Kalan in Canada. Hi, Kalan from Canada. Your question.
KALAN, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hi, Jean.
CASAREZ: Hi.
KALAN: Thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: Mm-hmm.
KALAN: I just want to say my boyfriend Richard and I have been following the story from the very beginning and our thoughts and prayers go out to Ronald Cummings and his family right now.
But with that being said, in light of all the recent events, has Ronald Cummings made any direct statements in regards to the Croslin family involvement?
And question two. Are they going to re-polygraph Misty and Tommy to get to the actual facts of who actually killed Haleigh?
CASAREZ: All right. A lot of that is probably attorney-client privilege. So I`m going to go to Natisha Lance out there in Satsuma, Florida.
What do we know about Ronald Cummings and what he has said about the involvement of Misty, Tommy or Joe?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: What we know, Jean, is that he has said that he believed Misty`s story all this time. He hasn`t said much about Joe or Tommy at this point that we know of. And as far as the polygraphs are concerned, we know that Tommy Croslin, according to his attorney, took a polygraph back on April 8th.
We don`t know the results of that polygraph test. But as far as Joe Overstreet and taking the polygraph test, that has not been determined as of yet.
CASAREZ: All right. Chelsea Croslin, sister-in-law of Misty, you knew Haleigh. Tell us about Haleigh Cummings.
C. CROSLIN: Haleigh`s a very happy, spunky, outgoing little girl. She always had a smile on her face and could put one on anybody`s face that came near her.
CASAREZ: Do you remember the last time you saw her?
C. CROSLIN: Yes, I do.
CASAREZ: What did she say to you?
C. CROSLIN: I didn`t get to talk to her. She come running off the school bus with a big smile on her face, and Ronald had his windows rolled up on his car. My daughter was waving out the window. Yelling "Hi, Haleigh." and Haleigh looked back and blew us a kiss, and she leaned up against the car, and then she got in the car and they drove away. And I never seen her again.
CASAREZ: Chelsea, has the body been found of Haleigh Cummings?
C. CROSLIN: Not -- not that I know of. No one`s told me that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
H. CROSLIN: I guess the world just wants to know.
M. CROSLIN: I know.
H. CROSLIN: Hell, I want to know.
M. CROSLIN: I know.
H. CROSLIN: I want you and your brother out of this mess.
M. CROSLIN: Me too. I want out of here, dad.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is this going from a missing person`s case to a homicide investigation?
HARDY: That is a decision that will be made later. At this point I`m comfortable to go ahead and say that I`m going to call it a homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Miss Teresa, can we get a comment from you, ma`am?
CUMMINGS: I just want my daughter back. That`s it. That`s all I want.
M. CROSLIN: I don`t want no one take her. I don`t know where she is.
HARDY: I think she`s come to realize that, you know, she`s in trouble.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE; FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: She is the one that holds the key information to finding out what happened to this beautiful little girl.
HARDY: People are starting to talk.
M. CROSLIN: It`s so hard to talk. It`s going to hurt two people. Use your head and you`ll know.
H. CROSLIN: They`re trying to destroy her right now. She`s just an 18- year-old girl. Give her a break.
CUMMINGS: All I want is my child. That`s it. I just want my daughter back. That`s all.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have you found Haleigh?
HARDY: No, we have not found Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Show me. You know. Just show me. Don`t tell me, show me. If you can`t show me, you know, why do I believe it?
GRACE: Miss Hollars, you have heard now three different versions of what happened the night Haleigh went missing. What is the most recent version you have been told?
HOLLARS: I was told by Misty was that Tommy and Joe took Haleigh and wrapped a yellow rope around her and carried her to the dock and put -- tied a brick around the bottom of the other end of the rope and throwed (sic) her into the river.
That come from Misty`s mouth into my ear.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" in for Nancy Grace. Let`s go to the lawyers. Doug Burns, defense lawyer extraordinaire out of New York, and Tamara Holder, defense attorney extraordinaire that I met last week out of Chicago.
Thanks so much for joining us, both of you.
First of all, Doug Burns. Misty Croslin. If someone in fact put a knife to her neck and threatened her that they would kill her and her family if she ever told anything, how can that be used ultimately in a trial as a defense when Misty is the defendant?
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that`s a very interesting point, actually. Because that would go at least to some measure in explaining why what has taken place here has taken place.
Jean, this has been a case from day one where law enforcement knows that basically every single word out of everybody`s mouth has not been truthful. And that`s why tonight the report that you`re making about the cinder blocks really is, as Pat Brown said, a very, very significant breakthrough in this case.
It`s like in the Scott Peterson case when forensic evidence started emerging. And this is going to be, in my opinion, the turning point. But back to your original question, that`s very interesting. She could raise that.
CASAREZ: To Tamara Holder, defense attorney out of Chicago. If Tommy is the one that took them to that pier, that boat dock, how will that help him in the end?
TAMARA HOLDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, I don`t know if he took them or if the law enforcement actually took him or because he -- Misty also ended up there. So I don`t know where they`re going. But it looks like the investigators are doing this very methodically.
Over 14 months they`re -- you know, trying to figure out piecemeal, this is a puzzle to them, very, very slowly, take me every single step of the way where you were that night. And maybe that`s why they`re taking them there.
CASAREZ: To Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, Florida Gulf Coast University, how long does it take to forensically test cinder blocks and other evidence?
HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, PH.D., FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Well, my specialty is studying bones, but it would depend on how busy the laboratory is and what -- how they`re going to tight cinder blocks to those that are in the home.
It can take anywhere from weeks to months to start to acquire all of those lines of data linking the perpetrators to the crime and the perpetrators to the victim.
CASAREZ: All right. To Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist out of New York. We`ve heard so much about Cousin Joe. We haven`t seen one shred of evidence. But everybody`s pointing fingers. What can that do to somebody, if it`s false, for the rest of their life?
Well, it can certainly violate any sense of family, trust, and closeness that this guy ever had. And can even make somebody suspicious and paranoid for the rest of their lives.
CASAREZ: Thank you so much, Patricia Saunders. Thank you to all of our guests.
And tonight, "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WYNONA WARD, PROTECTING THE POWERLESS: When I was growing up on a rural back road, family violence was an accepted way of life.
This is my mother. And I`m the baby here. And my father and my brother Richard and my sister Pauline.
My father would commonly abuse all of us. He raped me and beat my mother and my other siblings. When the neighbors heard screaming coming from our home, they just turned their heads.
For domestic violence victims in rural areas it can be very devastating. They`re out there on these back roads with no access to in-town services. Many of them do not have telephones. Some of them do not have driver`s license or an automobile. So we go to them.
My name is Wynona Ward. The turning point for me was when a child in my family revealed that she had been abused by my father and my brother. I just said this has to stop. When I graduated from law school, I was 48 years old.
Good morning, my dear.
I go to people`s homes, give them in-home consultations, provide them with free legal services and transportation to and from court hearings.
I don`t want children to have to go through what I did as a child. I want to see my clients become empowered. I can understand them, and they know that I will be there to protect them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASAREZ: And now a look back at the stories making the headlines this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: A shocking story. A Hollywood couple, loved, apparently, adored, particularly the victim.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He`s a former "Survivor" producer. Now he`s a huge suspect in his wife`s murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says he last saw her when she went shopping on Monday. He reports her missing on Tuesday. On Thursday, her body is found about 70, 80 yards from a resort in a sewer.
LALAMA: The mother`s body found dumped.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re on vacation down there with their two kids.
LALAMA: We understand, strangulation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He reports her missing.
LALAMA: We understand there was a big blow to her head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is now a suspect.
LALAMA: Talk of an affair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody, you know, is in shock.
HARDY: We do have a search going on at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A search --
HARDY: We`re conducting a search --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search for Haleigh.
M. CROSLIN: If I have something to do with it, I knew where she was.
CASAREZ: Called accessory after the fact.
M. CROSLIN: We wouldn`t be sitting here today.
CASAREZ: Punishable by life.
H. CROSLIN: I want to know where Haleigh`s at.
CASAREZ: The St. Johns River.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Putnam County Sheriff`s deputies acting on a tip began searching this lake for clues that could lead them to Haleigh Cummings. Misty Croslin is being questioned by Putnam County authorities.
GRACE: Cadaver gods, scuba divers, helicopter, search teams.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was more divers being bought out by boat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re following up on leads.
HARDY: Information has been obtained by investigators that lead them to believe that Haleigh Cummings is most likely deceased.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Misty Croslin also appeared to be on the scene.
TERESA NEVES, HALEIGH CUMMINGS` MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: Really does not care who was looking.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In handcuffs, pointing out something for investigators.
HARDY: At this point, I`m comfortable to go ahead and say I`m going to call it a homicide.
CUMMINGS: If somebody had something to do with it, let them fry.
GRACE: Misty Croslin down to the docks to show police a specific spot in the St. Johns River.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s in trouble.
GRACE: With us is Flora Hollars. Miss Hollars is Misty Croslin and Joe Overstreet`s grandmother.
You have heard now three different versions of what happened the night Haleigh went missing.
HOLLARS: She said Joe Overstreet and Tommy wrapped the rope around Haleigh and carried her to the dock at the St. Johns River and put a block around the other end of the rope and throwed her in the river.
They have no remorse or something, but nobody said anything until I broke Tommy on the phone (INAUDIBLE). And yes, I`m the one that called detectives and yes, I`m the one that sent them to the river.
GRACE: According to police, none of the three, Croslin, Tommy Croslin, or Joe Overstreet are persons of interest or suspects.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Tonight, let us to stop to remember, Navy Petty Officer 1st Class Jeffrey Chaney, 35 years old, from Omaha, Nebraska, killed Iraq.
He was awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He also served the Secret Service, climbed Mt. Rainier, and ran the Portland marathon. He loved boating and diving and snowboarding and motorcycle riding.
He leaves behind his parents, Connie and Larry, two brothers, one sister, and children Cameron and Brianna.
Jeffrey Chaney, an American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests and to you at home for being with us tonight. See you tomorrow, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. Until then, good night, everybody.
END
