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Campbell Brown
Oil Rig Explosion; Immigration Debate
Aired April 21, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. We're going to begin with some breaking news tonight.
Take a look at these unbelievable new pictures from the Coast Guard. This is that oil rig that is still burning tonight off the coast of Louisiana while the search continues for 11 missing workers. We're going to bring you the very latest on the situation there coming up very shortly.
A little bit of other news, tonight, there is a bill right now on the desk of the governor of Arizona, an immigration bill that critics say will allow police pull over any Latino and demand proof of legal residence. Tonight you are going to hear from both sides in what has become a very fierce debate on this bill.
Another very fierce political debate with emotions running high on both sides, the battle for America's schools. The White House point person on education, Arne Duncan, calls what's going on right now "brutal and scary," his words. He says all the budget cut backs, more announced today, in fact, are a looming education catastrophe. Local school boards say they have no choice and the kids are caught in the middle of all this. We're going to talk to Secretary Duncan coming up a little bit later in the show.
Lots of big questions that we're going to get to tonight, but we're going to begin, as always, with your "Cheat Sheet" for the day's top stories, our mash-up.
Our top domestic story is the one we started with, the massive oil rig explosion off the Louisiana coast; at least 11 people still missing, 17 were seriously injured in the blast that sent these dramatic burst of flames into the sky. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Explosion rocked the rig about 10:00 o'clock Central Time Tuesday night, spraying flames in every direction.
It was a harrowing ordeal as workers scrambled to abandon the rig. Some made it to life boats, some jumped more than 75 feet into the ocean.
(On camera): The Coast Guard evacuated 17 injured from work boats. Three are describe as critical. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Coast Guard rescuers scoured the Gulf of Mexico for 11 missing workers hoping to find them floating in one of the rig's life rafts.
At last word the oil rig still was burning and could topple into the water at any moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And we're going to keep track of the story. We'll have a lot more coming to you directly from the Coast Guard in just a few moments.
The big political story tonight, the Supreme Court count down. President Obama met with senate leaders today to discuss his pick to replace Justice John Paul Stevens. He told the senators he'll make an announcement before May 26th and the president also dropped some hints about what kind of nominee he is looking for.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told CNBC the main things he's looking for are fidelity to the law and the Constitution and-
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Somebody who has the kind of life experience so that they understand how their decisions are impacting ordinary people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vice President Biden will have the input. He interviewed the four nominees last year along with Obama. You know, he sat on Judiciary for decades.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, he has expertise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Republicans want to be seen as part of the process. Nobody is expecting the president is going to take his cues from Republicans on this or Republicans are ultimately going to come along and really support an eventual nominee.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Justice Stevens who turned 90 on Tuesday says he will retire shortly after the Supreme Court's term ends in late June.
Our number one international story is, of course, the volcano that air travelers love to hate. Tonight, finally, that cloud of ash that blanketed Europe is clearing. Airports across the continent are reopening.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than 22,000 flights, 80 percent of normal operated in Europe. Roughly the same percentage of flights flew between Europe and the U.S., but who got to fly? If you had a booking on a today flight that operated, you were among the lucky and on your way home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But hundreds of thousands are still stranded. In the past six days, close to 100,000 flights have been cancelled and clearing that backlog is a logistical nightmare. Anyone on flights that were cancelled may have to wait possibly for weeks. Airlines say priority for re-bookings will be given to people with medical needs, small children, and those stranded the longest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Total cost of the cancellations to the airlines has now reached $1.7 billion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Air traffic levels are expected to approach 90 percent by tomorrow.
The story getting all the buzz tonight. The Pittsburgh Steelers star quarterback hit with a six game suspension. Georgia prosecutors decided not to charge Ben Roethlisberger after a college student accused him of sexual assault, but today the NFL weighed in and blasted the quarterback's conduct.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have to be convicted of a crime or even charged with a crime He's got to change the way he's doing things.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Roethlisberger was accused of sexually assaulting a woman in the bathroom of a Georgia nightclub. Prosecutors opted not to charge him, but the investigation showed he helped provide alcohol to underage girls who were already drunk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He will not be allowed to attend any team functions until he's completed a behavioral evaluation. If he's cleared after that, the quarterback will be allowed to attend Pittsburgh's training camp.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roethlisberger's suspension will likely cost him $2 million in pay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The NFL wants Roethlisberger to quote, establish himself as a responsible individual.
BROWN: With good behavior Roethlisberger's suspension could be cut apparently to four games.
That brings us to the "Punch Line". Watch as Jimmy Kimmel takes on the Octomom and Oprah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, COMEDIAN: Oprah finally had her on to find out what it's like to raise 14 kids. As usual, Oprah made it fun for the audience, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, Oprah sits down with Octomom Nadya Suleman, and gives all her babies away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You got a baby, you got a baby. You got a baby.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Jimmy Kimmel, everybody. And that is the "Mash-Up".
Next up, we're going to go live to Louisiana, off the coast of Louisiana for the very latest on the breaking story, the desperate race to find 11 missing workers after that massive oil rig explosion. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight's breaking news, the frantic search for those 11 missing oil rig workers, victims of this massive explosion aboard the deep water Horizon drilling unit off the Louisiana coast. We have been monitoring developments all day, watching pretty stunning pictures of the fire and the rescue operation that has been under way.
Right now, we want to get the latest information on the rescue effort from the Coast Guard's Rear Admiral Mary Landry, who I believe is in New Orleans, with us by telephone right now.
Admiral Landry, are you there?
REAR ADM. MARY LANDRY, U.S. COAST GUARD: I am there.
BROWN: Thank you for being with us. The pictures we're showing people right now are just pretty unbelievable. Give us a sense of what's going on at this hour, what you know in terms of the rescue operation?
LANDRY: Basically, there's probably two aspects. There's a search and rescue case ongoing, obviously to search for the 11 members still missing. And there's also a response to the fire itself, and trying to secure the source of that fire. So there's several industry vessels along with the Coast Guard out there, and we're trying to secure the source of the fire.
BROWN: So first, I know you've got to be worried about those 11 workers still missing. Do you have any sense whether there are any survivors here?
LANDRY: We don't want to give up hope that we might be able to find the 11 unaccounted for personnel, so we have an active search and rescue case going on throughout the night. We're working with Transocean, the company who owns and operates this platform, this offshore drilling unit. They are working with next of kin notifications and keeping the families up to date on our activities.
BROWN: But nothing so far, obviously? LANDRY: Nothing so far, no.
BROWN: This fire is huge. How long is it going to take to get this out? What are you guys doing on that front?
LANDRY: Basically, the Coast Guard is overseeing what is a fire response, salvage effort on the part of industry. They're trying to secure the source. The source of that fire is predominantly coming from the well head itself. It's crude oil that is leaching from this well head. And as long as that crude is leaching, we're going to continue to see that fire. And what we're doing now, they've got a remotely operated vehicle, subsurface vehicle, that can work to secure that source, to plug that well head, if you will, and if it can plug the source, then we can mitigate the fire.
BROWN: This is pretty rare, as I understand it, or pretty unusual to have a fire like this, or this massive, at least, aboard one of these rigs, right?
LANDRY: It is. This is an industry, the offshore industry in the Gulf of Mexico, they've been in business for years, it's very sophisticated equipment, very high standards of safety, and they prepare all the time for these types of incidents. But they always hope nothing will happen, because there are so many safety cutouts designed into these offshore units. We were really fortunate that there were vessels of opportunity out there, offshore supply vessels that work in the region all the time, and the folks working on this platform, this rig, knew how to evacuate quickly in the case of an emergency, so hence you have tremendous rescue effort.
You have over 115 people who were rescued, that abandoned that quickly and expeditiously, and were absolutely rescued. So that's the positive sign of it. These are very, very unusual occurrences. And we're working with the Minerals and Management Service and the Coast Guard. We will conduct an investigation as to the cause of this accident to find out why it happened.
BROWN: So no idea right now at all what the cause may be?
LANDRY: You know, they were in the process of basically temporarily closing this well head down and when -- they work under high pressure and, you know, dangerous surroundings, but they have great safety cutouts in place, and everything was in place as if this temporary abandoning process should have done very smoothly and safely. For some reason, it did not. For some reason, there was this explosion. What we'll have to determine the reason. This is not a common occurrence. They work offshore. You know at any given day, 30,000 people are working offshore on these offshore platforms and rigs and they have a very good safety record, normally.
BROWN: So, given all that, how unusual it appears to be, do you think there's any chance of foul play here?
LANDRY: No. We've ruled out-you know, I will be honest. We work with a security plan for the offshore sector as well as our ports across the nation. We had calls right away from our security partners saying do you think there was any kind of nefarious activity associate with that. We ruled that out very quickly. This seems to be a horrible accident, working and talking to the operators of the rig. We feel this is a tragic accident, and we don't, right now at this time, think there's any kind of signs of foul play.
BROWN: Rear Admiral Mary Landry with us tonight. Admiral, I really appreciate your time and wish you the best in certainly tracking down these missing workers as well. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
And coming up, anger boiling over tonight about that serious crack down on illegal immigration in Arizona that is about to become law. Is it too harsh or will other states follow Arizona's lead? We're going to debate that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tensions are running high in border states where the toughest immigration law in the country will likely go into effect. Lawmakers in Arizona passed a bill that will require police to stop and question anyone they think is illegal. Also targeted, those who hire illegal immigrants. All that's left now is the governor's signature. Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over ): The battle over immigration law enforcement in Arizona is now being waged on the streets of Los Angeles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May the energy of your Earth created without borders for all rise within us and give new life to our struggle.
WIAN: By an Illinois congressman who calls it profiling.
REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ, (D) ILLINOIS: Look at my face, listen to my voice. I would probably get picked up in Arizona and questioned. Is that what we want in America?
WIAN: But Arizona sheriffs who traveled to Washington, D.C. say it's exactly what they need.
SHERIFF PAUL BABEAU, PINAL COUNTY, ARIZONA: I'm telling you that most sheriffs, I wouldn't dare to speak for anybody else, but most of us in law enforcement seek welcome this legislation.
WIAN: That legislation allows even encourages local law enforcement officers to check the immigration status of anyone they have a reasonable suspicion is in the country illegally. It also makes lacking proper papers a state crime and allows citizens to sue state officials who don't comply. Arizona State Senator Russell Pierce, a former sheriff's deputy, sponsored the law.
RUSSELL PEARCE, (R) ARIZ. STATE SENATE: We're going to take the handcuffs off law enforcement and put them on the bad guy. Illegal is not a race, it's a crime.
WIAN: Opponents say bill number 1070, which awaits governor Jan Brewer's signature, will lead to racial profiling of all Latino s in Arizona.
JORGE-MARIO CABRERA, COALITION FOR HUMANE IMMIGRATION RIGHTS: We're very concerned that 1070 will signify the end of the Latino community in Arizona. And I'm not kidding about this.
WIAN: But the law explicitly prohibits profiling. We read it to this protest leader in Los Angeles who was unmoved.
(On camera): A law enforcement agency may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implements the requirements of this subsection.
RABBI JASON VAN LEEUWEN, CLERGY & LAITY UNITED FOR ECON. JUSTICE: They may consider it, they may not solely consider it, but they may consider it. Which means, in practice, they could claim that there are other factors involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This law not only is vague enough to create rogue police officers detaining people just because of the color of their skin, but it's also directly impacting thousands and thousands of families.
WIAN: The law has clearly divided law enforcement officials and residents both in and out of Arizona. They do agree that federal courts will likely have to decide if it's constitutional.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Casey Wian is joining me right now.
Casey, I'm guessing just from what I read, the expectation is Governor Jan Brewer is going to sign this, correct?
WIAN: That's the expectation. The governor herself hasn't given a clear signal. She said she's studying the bill very carefully. She's a Republican. She's running for re-election. 84 percent of the Republicans in the state of Arizona say, according to the latest polling, they support this bill. She has until midnight Saturday to act. If she vetoes it, she vetoes it, if she decides to sign it, she signs it, if she does nothing, which is also an option, the bill then becomes law, Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Casey Wian for us tonight. Casey, thanks very much.
Coming up, Arizona's strict new bill inflaming both sides and pulling the rest of the country into this blowup a little bit. Is Arizona's approach the right approach? That debate coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Arizona's pending new crack down on illegal immigrants has renewed calls for comprehensive reform on the national level. Critics say the Arizona bill goes too far. Joining us right now to talk about this, Illinois Congressman Luis Gutierrez, who is also I should say, chairman of the Democratic caucus immigration task force. Also with us, Republican J.D. Hayworth, a former Arizona congressman, who is not challenging Senator John McCain. I should mention also that we invited Senator McCain to join us for this as well, but he declined to appear.
Congressman Hayworth, I want to start with you. You heard the piece, well, maybe you didn't. Either way, you know what opponents on the bill are saying. That it is racial profiling, pure and simple, and it will give police free rein to stop Latinos and demand proof of residency. Are they right about that?
J.D. HAYWORTH, (R) SENATE CANDIDATE, ARIZONA: Well, Campbell, I did hear the report, and of course you heard Casey Wian read the specific information in the bill that prohibits profiling. No, this has nothing to do with profiling.
BROWN: No, but you also heard the response the gentleman had.
HAYWORTH: Oh, certainly, yes.
BROWN: Which it is, it doesn't prohibit it. It says you can certainly take that into consideration as one of many factors is what I think he pointed out.
HAYWORTH: The bottom line on this, Campbell, is that long last Arizona is taking action, despite the best efforts of some of us who used to serve in Washington to actually have law enforcement on the border and enforcement of our immigration laws, since the federal government continues to drag its feet, since so many on the left want to see amnesty. At long last what we have here in Arizona is a nonpartisan bill, not only 80 percent of Republicans, 69 percent of independents, and indeed a majority of Democrats, here in Arizona, want to see this done. Why? Because it is nonpartisan, at long last we need to enforce immigration laws, and because Uncle Sam is not doing it, Arizona is ready to step forward and enforce those laws.
BROWN: OK, all that aside, though, I'm trying to get your sense on how this will actually be enforced. Because, you know, my read is police are allowed to demand identification of anybody they have a, quote, "reasonable suspicion" to believe is an illegal immigrant. How do you qualify, what do you qualify as a reasonable suspicion and how do you convey that to all these police officers, or whoever then has to sort of enforce this?
HAYWORTH: Campbell, I think it's far easier to take a look at what has been transpiring thus far when so many cities in Arizona have become de facto sanctuary cities, when certain politicians and certain law enforcement management types, don't want to see the laws enforced. I can tell you that the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association, the cops on the beat who have endorsed me for the United States Senate, say they want to enforce all laws including immigration laws. And this is a tool in that tool kit to actually enforce the laws. When it comes to the way in which it is utilized on the street, that is up, of course, to the law enforcement jurisdictions and the cops on the beat. I think you have seen in the case of Maricopa County sheriffs department, assiduous respect for the rule of law, and a banning of profiling.
BROWN: Congressman Gutierrez, is that good enough for you?
GUTIERREZ: Let me just say, look, this kind of law and these kinds of actions, political actions, are as old as our nation. If we were in Pennsylvania in the 1700s, we would say it would be the Germans. If it were just before the civil war and during the civil war and decades into the 20th century, they would be saying those dirty filthy criminal elements coming over from Ireland. At the turn of the century, we pick up a newspaper in New York City in 1910, and they would be saying by the rule could we ever hope to contain these people referring-
BROWN: But let me-
GUTIERREZ: Referring to Italian immigrants.
(CROSS TALK)
BROWN: I just want to get a little bit, I hear you. Wait, hold on.
GUTIERREZ: It's kind of an old theory.
BROWN: Congressman, if I may, I want to get beyond the rhetoric on both sides of this. It is a law that targets illegal immigrants, it doesn't target those people. There is a difference here, so address that portion of it, and the concerns you have about the language of the law itself.
GUTIERREZ: First of all, it's as old as the nation is in terms of the law and the politics behind it. Secondly, police enforcement should be about people's conduct. Should be about people's behavior, not the color of their skin, not the accent of their voice or their country of origin. Clearly, in Arizona, when the police stop someone and they look like J.D. Hayworth, I doubt they're going to ask him for his immigration papers or seek their immigration papers, if they look like the come from there.
But who are they targeting, clearly? There's going to be a group of people, and it is going to be Latinos that are going to be asked. What I would suggest to you, Campbell, is you're going to have someone coming back from Iraq, serving this nation and coming back to Arizona, and getting asked by a police officer proving he's a citizen of the United States when he has already defended this nation. Why should they be profiled? Why should they be set aside?
BROWN: Right.
GUTIERREZ: It is going to happen. That kind of abuse is inherent in the law. BROWN: Congressman Hayworth, I mean, you are running here to represent where 30 percent of the population is Latino. What do you say to your would-be Latino constituents to get convince them that this law won't get them stopped on the street or pulled over because of the way they look?
HAYWORTH: Well, because what we are seeing are illegals of all sorts of ethnic backgrounds coming into the United States. Indeed, if you go back and check some of the records, some of the biggest apprehensions, if you will, have been of Chinese illegals. The fact is we're not a simply getting illegals from Mexico.
BROWN: But Arizona, let's be honest. You're not having a problem with Chinese illegals in Arizona, are you?
HAYWORTH: Oh, we are. You bet we are.
BROWN: That's your primary concern?
HAYWORTH: Let's understand this entire debate, Campbell. Border security is national security, and for so many, it's personal security. The fact is we have had people coming in and you've seen the intelligence reports. There are people coming in here from the Middle East. There are people coming from around the world through our porous borders. This is not a matter of racial profiling. It's a matter of national security. I dare say to try and claim the myth of the monolith, that it is exclusively the domain of the Hispanics, or Latinos, is just false.
BROWN: All right. I'll give you the last word here, Congressman.
GUTIERREZ: Look, Campbell, it's very clear what's going to happen in Arizona. There's going to be a community of people, community of people that work hard, sweat and toil each and everyday, and they should be respected. The law should respect them. We should not divide the police which we need and needs to have the respect of the community and has to have the support of the community. Let's not divide.
You know who wins here? I'm going to tell you who wins here. The criminal elements, the drug smugglers, the human traffickers. The criminal element, they love this law because it divides and causes a division between the police which we need and the community in general. Let's not make it an America in which we divide people by the color of their skin and the accents that they have. That's what's going to happen in Arizona. It's unfortunate. You can go to Hazleton, Pennsylvania.
BROWN: All right.
GUTIERREZ: $2.4 million in legal fees are ready.
BROWN: All right. Guys, we have to end it there. We're out of time. Gentlemen, to both of you, appreciate your time tonight. Thanks very much for being with us. GUTIERREZ: Thank you.
HAYWORTH: Thank you.
BROWN: Coming up next, a dire warning from the secretary of Education. Arne Duncan says American schools are facing a potential catastrophe. He's going to join me right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Another devastating blow today to our nation's struggling schools. The Cleveland school board voted to slash 10 percent of its workforce, including 545 teachers. And it is only the latest example of what Education Secretary Arne Duncan is calling an emergency in classrooms from coast to coast. I spoke with Duncan earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Secretary Duncan, welcome to you.
ARNE DUNCAN, EDUCATION SECRETARY: Thanks for having me back again. I appreciate the opportunity.
BROWN: You have said that the country is on the brink of, your words here, an education catastrophe. You called the situation brutal. You called it, quote, "really scary." This is absolutely alarming to hear coming from the secretary of Education. So paint a picture for us of how bad you think things could actually get.
DUNCAN: Well, as I travel around the country, every single state is looking at very significant layoffs. The number could be anywhere between a minimum of 100,000 teachers laid off to as much as 300,000 teachers laid off. And so we're pushing very hard for an emergency jobs bill, first and foremost, to protect children and to keep reform moving forward.
BROWN: Senator Tom Harkin is proposing this $23 billion federal education bailout. Some Republicans wonder where we're going to find that kind of money right now. That is, throwing money that we don't have at this problem. What's your response?
DUNCAN: We have to work with Congress on this issue. But I think, first and foremost, we have a job to protect children. We have to educate our way to a better economy. That's the only way we're going to get there. If we see class size skyrocket, if we see summer school go away, if we see extra-curricular disappear, none of that is good for children. None of that is good for our nation.
BROWN: But how do you make sure that this money is more than a temporary fix? I mean, what kind of promises do you demand from states, from local school boards to make sure that there's real accountability there so that we're not just going through this exact same thing a year from now?
DUNCAN: As you know, we're pushing a very, very strong reform agenda. We have to work with them hard. Thanks to the recovery act, we saved about 300,000 jobs this past full year. We think as the economy improves, state and local districts absolutely will continue to invest, not in the status quo, but in a reform agenda. But right now, we're in a moment of crisis. I think we have to step up and do it with a sense of urgency. If we act in October, it's too late. We need to sort of meet this head on, square on and do it now, because good superintendents, anyone who work is planning now for the fall.
BROWN: What would you do? I mean, you ran the Chicago school system and that's why you're in this job because everybody thought you did it pretty brilliantly. So if you are, you know, advising these people who are having to make these incredibly hard choices, what would you tell them to do? I mean, what would you do if you were in that situation?
DUNCAN: Well, these are brutal choices. Unfortunately, Campbell, there simply aren't good answers. That's why I think we need to step up. That's why I think this emergency jobs legislation is so critical.
Folks had cut through fat a long time ago. They're well into bone. And there simply isn't a good answer out there if we don't step up and help meet districts and states halfway.
BROWN: The fact is, and you sort of made reference to this, is that teacher layoffs are inevitable this year. And there is a big debate happening right now over who should go first, who should get their pink slips first. Should it be based on seniority, the last hired, first fired? Where do you come down on that specifically?
DUNCAN: Well, I think we're fighting so hard now is to say we don't need, you know, 200, 300,000 layoffs around the country. That's not good for any of us. If those hard choices can be made less difficult, we can be more creative in thinking about reform. But right now, we're trying to stave off this education catastrophe. And these aren't, again, small numbers.
Illinois, they're talking about up to 20,000. New York, about 20,000. California, 23,000. These are staggering numbers. These aren't just young teachers. These are young teachers, veteran teachers. The amount of layoffs we're seeing if we don't step up are absolutely unprecedented right now.
BROWN: So you --
DUNCAN: That's what worries me.
BROWN: You mentioned California. Yesterday, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger threw his weight behind a bill that would let principals and districts give them the right to fire teachers based on the kind of job they do, based on performance. And on the face of it, that makes sense to a lot of people. What do you think about that?
DUNCAN: I think absolutely, I've said from day one the student performance has to be part of every teacher's evaluation. I think in education, we've been too scared, too reluctant to talk about who's doing a phenomenal job, how we recognize, how we award, how we encourage, how we learn from those extraordinary teachers who are making a difference in students' lives every single day. We need to become much more creative in that area.
BROWN: Some school districts are so strapped for cash right now, they're actually reaching out to private foundations to help pay for their teachers. Is that something that you support? Is that the direction we're headed?
DUNCAN: Absolutely. That's nothing new. When I ran Chicago public schools, the civic community, the philanthropic community was extraordinarily generous. So we've been reaching out to the private sectors, to foundations, for a long, long time. The challenge now is that those, you know, the private sector, the philanthropic community, as generous as they are, they can't begin, they can't begin to fill the kind of hole that school districts and schools are facing today.
BROWN: Well, we will be certainly watching as this evolves in the coming weeks and months ahead. Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, we really appreciate your time tonight?
DUNCAN: Thanks so much for the opportunity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Who says the mob is dead? Federal prosecutors today reveal new details of a wide ranging mafia operation. They say organized crime has hit a new low. We have that story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It is tempting to think the days of dapper dons in silk suits, the made men immortalized in "The Godfather" and "The Sopranos" are a thing of the past. But when the mobsters of the old get whacked or waste away in prison, prosecutors say a new generation carries on the family business.
Well, today in New York, a reputed boss of the Gambino crime family and 13 other suspects face charges including sex trafficking of a minor. And prosecutors called that a new low and a first for the mob. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PREET BHARARA, U.S. ATTORNEY: As today's case demonstrates, the mafia, as I've said, is not dead. It is alive and kicking. Modern mobsters may be less colorful. They may be less flamboyant. They may be less glamorous than some of their predecessors. But make no mistake, they are still terrorizing businesses, they are still using baseball bats, they are still putting people in the hospital, and they are still sworn to a life of crime.
GEORGE VENIZELOS, FBI NEW YORK OFFICE: In truth, despite the popular fascination, it was never really about the thousand dollar suits. It was and is about murder, mayhem and money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Joining us right now is Joe Coffey who is a former commanding officer of the NYPD Organized Crime Unit, and "New York Times" reporter Ben Weiser who covers the federal courthouse in Manhattan. He's been knee deep on all this stuff.
Ben, let me ask you about this. The prosecutor called this a new low for the mafia, sex trafficking involving a minor here. What exactly are the allegations and kind of explain for us how the operation was run?
BENJAMIN WEISER, REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Thanks, Campbell. The government did bring another big indictment. It's 60 pages, two dozen different charges, and it has many of the familiar counts that we always associate with the mob, racketeering, loan sharking, murder, drug trafficking and, of course, jury tampering. What would it be without that?
But then there is also sex trafficking of women. And the government has said that in all the cases, at least described here, women were under 20 years old, and in one case was 15 years old. And as the prosecutors have said, this involved a fairly elaborate scheme, advertising on Craigslist and other Web sites.
BROWN: But out in the open like that? Because law enforcement would seemingly have access to all that, Craigslist in the Internet.
WEISER: They have not given us copies of the ads, and so I don't think they said, you know, a Gambino family special. But they clearly were up there. And this is according to the government, the first time we've seen this in a mafia case. There have been cases in the past of the mob shaking down brothels, for example, but both the head of the FBI and the head of the United States attorney's office here in Manhattan have both said that they can't remember a case like this.
BROWN: The other thing, Joe, here that's getting a lot of attention is one of the defendants allegedly involved in this prostitution ring is a woman. Her name is Suzanne Porcelli. And you told us that's pretty untraditional, I guess, in terms of how the mafia used to operate. What strikes you about that?
JOE COFFEY, FORMER COMMANDING OFFICER, NYPD: First of all, you have to understand, you're not exactly dealing with the faculty at Harvard here. You're dealing with people who are low lives and they've become their best customers.
"The Times" reporter there mentioned the sophistication of the mob as it used to be on the old days, or back in the day. These guys today are their own best customers. They're using the products that they sell, i.e., cocaine, crack, heroin and the like.
BROWN: Right.
COFFEY: These are reckless people. These are low lives. They no longer have the sophistication that the old time mob did. And I'm surprised that Danny Marino, who I happen to know because I participated in investigations with him through the years and he's almost 70 years old, that he would lower himself to this level. These people years ago, if they dared to go into this type of business would wind up in a car in Kennedy airport in the morning.
BROWN: Right. Let me ask Joe about this woman. Her lawyers say she's a single mother. She's not a member of the crime family. And she is accused of a more limited role. Explain what that is or what it's about.
WEISER: That's right. The indictment lists her as an associate, which is basically the term for someone who's not a made member of the mob. And it describes her role in some detail. She was taking phone calls apparently, from people who were interested in the prostitution ring. It does not give much more detail than that. And I would point out that all, all the people who've been charged and brought into court have pleaded not guilty. And these are just allegations.
BROWN: Right.
WEISER: And I might add the allegations go back to the early 1980s, so this covers this pre (INAUDIBLE) the U.S. attorney said, decades of criminality.
BROWN: And at the heart of this, we're talking about prostitution rings --
WEISER: Right.
BROWN: -- but there are murder charges here.
WEISER: That's right. And Marino, as I mentioned, is the lead defendant in this case. He is described as a boss of the Gambino family, which seems to translate into "the boss" of the family. He apparently oversees more than 200 members and hundreds of others and is accused of murder, including of his own nephew.
BROWN: So let me ask you very quickly, Joe, if the government does win this case, is that the end of the Gambino crime family?
COFFEY: No. They said that when John Gotti was arrested and when he passed away in jail. It's not the end of the Gambino family. This operation here is really the nucleus -- the nucleus over this particular indictment are the homicides, nothing to do with the prostitution. The prostitution of this young girl at 15 years old made it sensational, so they could get better press coverage. I hope the FBI and the government has better informants in this case than they had in John Gotti, Jr.'s case that they lost four times.
BROWN: Right. All right. Well, gentlemen, we appreciate your time tonight. We'll keep track of it. Many thanks to Ben and Joe.
WEISER: Thank you.
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" starting in just a few minutes. Larry, what do you have tonight? LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Campbell, Tom Sizemore is our guest. He has some story. Successful actor, great career, a life derailed by drugs, probably his own worst enemy. His honest, courageous take on life now, back on track. Tom Sizemore for the hour is next, Campbell, on "LARRY KING LIVE."
BROWN: All right, Larry. We'll see you in just a few minutes.
Here's a little food for thought. A group of retired military leaders says your kids might pose a threat to national security. Why? Mary Matalin and Roland Martin square off on that and more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Right now, it's time for "M2" with Mary Matalin and Roland Martin. As always, they are squaring off on some of today's hottest topics. Tonight, Mary joins us from New Orleans and Roland is in Chicago.
Guys, what have you got.
MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Campbell, I know you care about this. All of us with kids do. But our fat kids which used to be a health issue for all of us is now a security issue. Retired Lieutenant General Seip of the Air Force says that our kids are too fat to fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GEN. NORMAN SEIP (RET.), USAF: We are releasing a new report that examines the leading medical reason why recruits are rejected from military services. That reason is not drug abuse, is not asthma, is not flat fleet. By far, the leading medical reason is being overweight or obese. Our report shows that more than nine million young adults are too overweight to join the military.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Mary, talk about a unique way to confront and deal with this obesity epidemic in America. I mean, I think it's pretty novel.
MATALIN: It is. It's really, really scary. The health care costs are a security issue as well. We're spending so much on chronic diseases, diabetes, heart disease, those diseases that are related to being overweight. So I say take it home, parents, get off your couch, walk with your kids.
MARTIN: Right.
MATALIN: Do whatever it takes. And I don't care if they take this crappy food out of the school, just don't send those food police to my restaurant.
MARTIN: But also, I would say you have food deserts all across the country where you don't have grocery stores, you don't have fresh produce. This initiative, the "Let's Move" initiative by the first lady also I think is important.
Look, you know, this is a major issue that affects folks who are black, white, Hispanic, Asian. Does not matter or rule, as well as city. And so there needs to be a national push to deal with this whole issue of obesity because it's definitely hurting our children all across the board, Mary.
MATALIN: You know, it doesn't have to be a government response or even a fresh produce place. There are churches everywhere. There are hospitals everywhere.
MARTIN: Oh, yes.
MATALIN: Here in New Orleans, Ochsner Hospital is partnering with everybody to teach nutrition, to teach parents how to cook, to teach all the things that go into having a healthy, balanced meal.
MARTIN: Mary, speaking of a major problem in terms of how we're confronting issues in our cities, look at Chicago, your hometown where I now live, the violence is nuts. I mean, the other day, 36 cops showed up at the scene as the folks were still firing at the cops. So a pastor now says send the National Guard to protect neighborhoods.
MATALIN: That is not the answer. That's not what the National Guard should be doing. What the answer is nobody wants to hear. It is quit breaking up these families. If you got no daddy and you start out disadvantaged and then you go in the union, run into the ground schools, and all of these things add up. Where are the pastors? Where are the priests? Where are the churches? Well, you know, Chicago is the black epicenter of the intelligentsia, of progress, of success, where are they all? These should not be happening.
MARTIN: First of all, a lot of folks, obviously, you know, pastors, black, white, Hispanic who are doing their part. But the issue here is that first of all, Chicago has a serious gang problem, whether you're talking about blacks, Hispanics, Whites. I mean, that's always been the case. And so we have seen the violence flare up.
I think one of the things that has to happen, you've got to have this sort of surge attitude towards the police going into neighborhoods. Secondly, you have to have people who live there who are not afraid of the cops. And also, third, you have this whole issue of, you know, don't stitch.
A kid the other day was gunned down. He was dying in a cop's hand and the cop said "who shot you." And the kid to his death said, "I'm still not going to tell you." I mean, come on, give me a break. And so they're killing fields out here. And so it is devastating communities. And I understand the pastor's concern, but I do believe this is a police issue, not a National Guard issue.
You know, that's the thing that happens. But I will say this, Mary. I will support the National Guard shutting down reality shows. MATALIN: OK. I'm with you on that one.
How about this? Maybe these two topics tie together. Kate Gosselin back in the news, crying about "Dancing with the Stars" or whatever. What if we had reality shows that highlighted heroes? That highlighted people who actually did good things in the community?
MARTIN: We'll watch it.
MATALIN: The other day -- like, well, you know what, the other guy jumped off the bridge into the Pontchartrain that you've been here, to save a guy who jumped off the bridge. And so, why don't we -- who wouldn't watch that real life drama?
MARTIN: But, Mary, we love train wrecks. We love seeing Kate Gosselin cry and octomom. Look at all these reality shows with these celebrities in rehab and stuff. I mean, America, they frankly lost their minds with watching the drama. I can't stand these people. I'm like Kate Gosselin, please, shut up. Octomom, go away. I cannot stand these people, Mary. I really can't.
MATALIN: Here's something. We are praying for their children. OK. They're crazy.
MARTIN: All right.
MATALIN: We're praying for their children. Roland, Campbell, see you tomorrow. Pray for the kids in the meantime.
MARTIN: That's right.
Campbell, back to you. To my wife, happy anniversary, Jackie.
BROWN: Glad you got that one in, Roland.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just few minutes. But up next, rooting for a bull market. The tiny guys who depend on the titans of Wall Street, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It was the original company town, Detroit. You couldn't mention the city without talking about the auto industry. In Hollywood, it's the movie biz. In Washington, it's politics. They are all company towns.
Here in New York City, there are plenty of businesses that would like to claim the Big Apple as theirs, but first among equals is Wall Street. And you might be surprised at who is rooting for those record earnings.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANTHONY SORISI, OWNER, PIZZA ITALIA: Oh, yes, Wall Street dies, I die. You know, I might as well just lock up the door.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they're not making the money, I'm not making the money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wall Street is the heart of New York. And we need Wall Street, because they employ thousands and thousands of people.
SORISI: When Wall Street is doing well, they don't want you leave. They buy lunch for you. The first thing that gets cut a lot when things are dead are the free lunches and the taxis and all of that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have Ross coming at 1:30. As far as my business is concerned, normal clients that I would see on a weekly basis, rather than seeing them every week, now I would see them once a month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want that money. Wall Street does well, everybody does well. That's where everybody depends on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a trickle down effect. People that are making a lot of money like to spend a lot of money. And that's what I'm here for. I'm here to serve those people that make a lot of money.
SORISI: At its height, things were good. You know, we were all, you know, I was making a living, you know. Like I said, I wasn't wealthy, but I was making a living. That's all I want.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wall Street is -- I think is going to make a comeback. Of course. It has to.
SORISI: I've been here for 17 years. I have to root for Wall Street. I want Wall Street to succeed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And that's it for us. Have a great night, everybody. We will see you right back here tomorrow night.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
