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Nancy Grace
Missing Ohio Church Mom Found With Married Man in Miami; Croslin- Cummings Family Split on Haleigh Case
Aired April 22, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Ohio. A young church mom of a 1-year-old baby girl vanishes while shopping. Then grainy surveillance video emerges of Mommy with a mystery man cops ID a person of interest. The mystery man, Tre B. Hutcherson. Then in a surprise twist, we learn it`s not the first time Mommy`s spotted with the mystery married man, his wife revealing thousands now gone from the family bank account.
Bombshell tonight. After a massive four-day search, her baby girl left without a mom, volunteers, family, friends, church members all on hold, the trail leads cops straight to Mommy and the married man 1,000 miles away at an oceanfront hotel, Miami South Beach, Mommy telling cops she wants to start a new life. With thousands in police resources, hundreds of man-hours wasted, will there be charges against runaway Mommy? And what about the baby she abandoned for a married man in Miami Beach?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tiffany has been found safely in Miami, Florida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, after days of tension and frantic searching, missing church mom Tiffany Tehan has been found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She may have made some mistakes, but everyone does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tiffany and person of interest Tre Hutcherson stopped in a vehicle in Miami Beach, Florida, where Tiffany drops a bomb on cops, allegedly telling them she left Ohio voluntarily and intended to start a new life. But why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman that claims to be Tre Hutcherson`s wife told us, quote, "He`s taken off with this girl, obviously together. He`s caused no harm to her, and they`re together because they want to be."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could a beloved member of the church ministry, a pastor`s daughter, simply leave her 1-year-old baby behind?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t blame her for any of that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will Tiffany Tehan face criminal charges? Cops said if Tehan had picked up the phone just once, a lot of pain and wasted resources could have been avoided.
GRACE: I just don`t see her leaving the 1-year-old little girl behind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand that. That`s totally not anything in Tiffany`s character at all. It`s not something she traditionally would be doing. And we don`t really understand why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news tonight, Satsuma, Florida. A 5-year-old girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she`s gone. Daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little Haleigh. The last person to see her alive, new stepmother Misty Croslin, goes on to flunk four polygraphs. Haleigh`s father, Ronald Cummings, and stepmother Croslin both booked, drug trafficking.
Suddenly, search teams, cadaver dogs, scuba divers, helicopters all combing the St. John`s River. Croslin rousted out of jail, taken in handcuffs down to the dock, motioning out to a specific spot for police. Cops announcing 5-year-old Haleigh likely dead. Evidence, including two cinderblocks, pulled from the muddy waters of the St. John`s.
As the search for little Haleigh`s entire body and the murder weapon goes on, breaking tonight. With pressure mounting, Haleigh`s family split down the middle on what happened the night Haleigh vanishes. Exclusive tonight, Haleigh`s great-grandmother and Misty Croslin`s grandmother take sides, and they join us live. This as reports possible murder weapons recovered, including cinderblocks and rope. But still no sign of Haleigh`s body, at least no sign that police will confirm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER: I didn`t do anything with that little girl.
JOE OVERSTREET, MISTY`S COUSIN: I didn`t do it.
TOMMY CROSLIN, MISTY`S BROTHER: I had nothing to do with none of that crap.
FLORA HOLLARS, MISTY`S AND JOE`S GRANDMOTHER: Three grandkids of mine is involved in this, and I don`t know why!
MISTY CROSLIN: They`re treating our family like crap.
HOLLARS: She`s involved.
CRYSTAL SHEFFIELD, HALEIGH`S MOTHER: She was the last one to see our daughter.
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) let my daughter get stolen (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
HOLLARS: She says, Nanny, Tommy and Joe took a rope...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s something hard to hear.
HOLLARS: ... tied it around her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) hurt so many lives.
HOLLARS: They tied brickle blocks to her...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I cannot believe anything.
HOLLARS: ... and dropped her into the St. John`s River.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They can`t show me, why do I believe it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... just want to know where she`s at.
GRACE: Where is...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Haleigh...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Haleigh...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Haleigh...
CUMMINGS: ... my little girl!
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) from her body...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a murder weapon...
MISTY CROSLIN: The cops said there was a whole bunch of bricks.
Like, a brick on the floor.
But I`ve never seen any bricks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve seen her arrogant...
MISTY CROSLIN: I`m serious. I was, like, Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve seen her emotionless.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you do for a living, ma`am?
MISTY CROSLIN: Nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve seen her strung out.
MISTY CROSLIN: (INAUDIBLE) I`m, like, Hell, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve seen her nasty.
MISTY CROSLIN: Get me out first. Worry about me first.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now she may be softening up in terms of breaking and really telling us what really happened.
HOLLARS: I said, Are you telling the police, too? She says, Yes, I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After a massive four-day search that spanned the country, her baby girl left without a mother, a young church mom and a married mystery man apprehended by cops a thousand miles away. Will there be charges against the runaway mom? And will she get the baby back, the baby she abandoned for Miami Beach and a married man?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been our hope and goal throughout this whole thing to make sure that we bring Tiffany back safely, and we have succeeded.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Missing church mom Tiffany Tehan has been found safe in Miami Beach, Florida. Cops say Tehan was pulled over with person of interest Tre Hutcherson, the two willingly together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s a person, like everyone else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say Tiffany told them she left Ohio voluntarily with the intent of starting a new life, the couple reportedly staying together at a $39-a-night hotel in Miami.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... getting through life. And it`s not always easy.
But just how did the couple end up 1,000 miles away from friends and family?
A woman that claims to be Tre Hutcherson`s wife told us, quote, "I know that he would go to Circle-K and I`m sure that he was talking to her. And she`s with him because she wants to be. She`s not been hurt or they`ve run off together."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement says they`re not ruling out charges against Tiffany Tehan, saying they`ve spent over 200 hours of police overtime on the case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you guys have any anger at all? A lot of people want to know that question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Clark Goldband, our producer on the story. Mommy turns up over 1,000 miles away with the mystery married man, saying she wanted to start a new life?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: In South Beach, Miami, no less, Nancy, over 1,000 miles away from Ohio, where she vanished. And law enforcement there in South Beach, Nancy, saying that they made statements indicating they were romantically involved together, and Mommy apparently saying she wanted to start a new life.
GRACE: Well, you know, what? Thank you, Clark, but I think we can all determine they were romantically involved together.
Straight out to Katie Wright, reporter with the "Hillsboro Times- Gazette," joining us at the Xenia Police Department. Katie, thank you for being with us. What more can you tell us?
KATIE WRIGHT, "HILLSBORO TIMES-GAZETTE": Well, right now, what we know, Nancy, is that Tiffany Tehan and Tre Hutcherson were located last night on the 79th Street causeway in Miami. We are told they were located by Miami police acting on a tip out of the Xenia Police Department here.
Police say that they interviewed both Tiffany and Tre separately, just to make sure that Tiffany was, indeed, acting voluntarily when she went to Florida with this man. They confirmed that she was not in any danger. And currently, they are not in custody and no charges have been filed.
GRACE: Back to you, Clark Goldband. Explain to me how they were apprehended. What vehicle were they in? Because Mommy`s vehicle was found with a flat tire, with the keys in the ignition, the doors locked, as if it had been abandoned, clearly, giving the appearance that there had been foul play.
GOLDBAND: Also, Nancy, the person of interest`s car, that `99 red Volkswagen, was also located by law enforcement. So the big question was, How`d they get down there? Here`s what we know, according to reports. A 2002 gray Chrysler Sebring was found there. Now, what`s interesting is that, apparently, this person of interest traded in that Volkswagen Friday, one day before they had vanished. And he told the car dealer, according to press reports, he needed to get away and needed a car that was more reliable.
GRACE: Well, he certainly wasn`t making that a secret.
To Captain Scott Anger (ph) with the Xenia Police Department, joining us out of Ohio. Captain, thank you for being with us. Right now, are any charges being considered against the runaway mom?
Hold on. I`m not hearing Captain Anger. I`ll get back with him when you can correct his satellite, Rosie. Thank you.
Back to you, Clark. I want to find out, do we know of any current charges pending?
GOLDBAND: No, Nancy, we do not. But law enforcement has said that they`ve spent over 200 hours of overtime investigating this case, not to mention the thousands of dollars paying that overtime. And the FBI also involved, this spanning coast to coast.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Judith in Michigan. Hi, Judith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s good to hear -- or good to talk to you.
GRACE: Likewise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What I want to know is -- I have a comment and a question. My comment is I have three children, which I could never, ever leave because I love them dearly. And I also have a grandson that I have raised since he was three days old. And my daughter was a daughter that just -- just because you have a child come out of your body doesn`t make you a parent. That`s why there are so many adoptive parents that are so beautifully raising their children.
But my question is, why -- what I`m thinking is this woman probably could have gone through post-partum, whatever, the baby`s young. Maybe she just wanted to start a new life, get away. Men do it all the time, and it`s no big deal when a mom -- when a dad takes off. But when a mom takes off, they say, Oh, how could they leave their kid? And what I`m saying is, just because a baby comes out of your body doesn`t make you a parent. So why would charges be even filed against this woman? Men do it all the time.
GRACE: Judith, men do do it all the time. But believe me, here on this show, we don`t act like it`s nothing when men dump their families and disappear.
Let`s unleash the lawyers and answer the questions. Joining us tonight, felony prosecutor, Atlanta, Eleanor Odom. Also with us, defense attorney, New York, Richard Herman. With us also out of Atlanta, defense attorney Peter Odom.
First of all, Eleanor, it`s not against the law to just leave, to just say, Hey, I`m going to get the bread, `bye, and never come back. That is not a felony. It`s not even a misdemeanor. But think about this, Eleanor. Did she intentionally allow it to be set up to look like she had met with foul play, launching a massive nationwide search, thousands and thousands of dollars, thousands of manhours by the police, all wasted. Now, if she intentionally misled police, doesn`t that give it a different interpretation?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: It certainly does, Nancy. Not only does that give it a different interpretation, but something else I`m concerned about is abandonment of that child. Perhaps there`s a charge there because she completely left her own child.
GRACE: Richard Herman, weigh in.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`s amazing that he was the person of interest. Why wasn`t she the person of interest? Maybe she abducted him. All your viewers put it on him!
GRACE: Yes, OK, you know what, Richard?
HERMAN: All of them, Nancy!
GRACE: I`m sorry I went to you. What about it, Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There`s no charge to bring, Nancy. She might have done something morally wrong, but legally, there`s nothing that can be done.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police now say a missing Ohio wife and mother, Tiffany Tehan, wasn`t missing at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tiffany has been found safely in Miami, Florida.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wife and mother Tiffany Tehan ran off with another man to Miami to start a new life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just how did Tiffany Tehan and Tre Hutcherson avoid cops?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say this convenience store video shows Tehan with Tre Hutcherson, and it was key to cracking the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The Dayton Daily News" reporters Hutcherson traded in his `99 red Volkswagen Beetle for a 2002 Chrysler Sebring just one day before Tiffany vanished.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tehan told them she and Hutcherson were romantically involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say they put an alert out on the 2002 Chrysler Sebring, which reportedly was tracked down in Miami Beach, Florida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been our hope and goal throughout this whole thing to make sure that we bring Tiffany back safely, and we have succeeded with that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We did have one question, though. Are you going to work this out? Is she coming home? And you know, the family right now said...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She may have made some mistakes, but everyone does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. I want to go back to Clark Goldband. I want to get this straight. Exactly where was the missing mom?
GOLDBAND: Nancy, she was in Miami beach, Florida, which is in south Florida. That`s about 1,100 miles away from the hometown in Ohio where she went missing.
GRACE: No, no, no. I already know Miami Beach. I know that. Where in Miami Beach? The International Inn Underbay. Tell me.
GOLDBAND: Yes, Nancy. She was at that hotel. We did some research...
GRACE: What is that?
GOLDBAND: It`s $39 a night at that motel. And she was stopped about a few hundred feet away on the international causeway that was leading back to that hotel.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers." Listen, Bethany, the caller, Judith from Michigan, was right. It`s not a crime to just leave your family, just walk out and never come back. Morally, do I approve? No. But it`s not a crime. But when you intentionally leave a scenario set up as if you`ve been kidnapped, a flat tire...
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Right.
GRACE: ... the keys in the ignition, you ignore voicemail, you don`t check your phone, you turn off your cell, you -- how can you miss the news coverage? It`s on every major network, every dot-com there is. Where`s the missing mom of one? We`ve devoted several nights to it, trying to find this woman. I mean, how can that not be intentional, Bethany? Give me your best shot. Go ahead. Throw post-partum at me! I`ve been there!
MARSHALL: Nancy, it`s not post-partum because someone who`s depressed would never have the energy to run away. What this is is profound pathological selfishness. And let`s not forget, the reason she gave for leaving, she wanted a new life.
This is why women kill their babies is they feel that the child is standing in the way of love. So this woman should never be allowed alone with this baby again. She seems to fit, like, a borderline narcissistic personality profile, where there`s initial clinging to new love or attachment figures, and that`s all they want to do is gravitate towards the people that they experience as admiring them. And she probably gave no thought to her church, her minister father, her husband, her 1-year-old baby. So she thought, in a pathological way, that they would just forget about her.
GRACE: Bethany, Bethany, Bethany, Bethany! Let`s boil it down. OK. I don`t care about all the grown-ups. They can deal with it.
MARSHALL: Sure.
GRACE: But the baby, the baby is a different thing. And don`t start up with me, like Judith in Michigan, did about post-partum. She`s tired. She wants a new life. Every new mother, especially that has to hold down a full-time job and raise children -- you know, daddies are great...
MARSHALL: Nancy...
GRACE: ... Bethany, but the reality is, in our society, it`s all Mommy. The kid`s sick, it`s on Mommy to take care of the child. If there`s a problem, it`s on Mommy. Mommy has to fix it. And that kind of goes with the package. Most of the women on the panel tonight are mommies. We get it. But walking out on the baby is not an option, Dr. Bethany!
MARSHALL: No. She`s not bonded to her child. And that`s why I said this is not post-partum depression because when you`re depressed, you couldn`t run away from anything, even if a train is bearing down on her.
GRACE: I mean, come on! Eleanor...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: She wants to start over...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... she could get a divorce!
ELEANOR ODOM: That would be the easiest way, Nancy, instead of abandoning your child. Now she probably won`t have custody.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was supposed to go out and do some quick shopping for her 1-year-old baby girl. But 31-year-old mom Tiffany Tehan never returned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police now say a missing Ohio wife and mother, Tiffany Tehan, wasn`t missing at all. They say she ran off with another man to Miami to start a new life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to explore all those things. Like I say, the main factor in this was where we got to today. Xenia Police Department`s main goal was finding Tiffany safely, and all of the other things that you`re requesting will be taken care of at a later date. And we do not -- we`re not going to divulge any information that`s of personal or family matters. We`ve succeeded in what we -- what we were to do as law enforcement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the lines. Ann in Georgia. Hi, Ann. I think I`ve got Ann in Georgia. Are you there, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am.
GRACE: Hi. Thank you for calling. What`s your question, Ann?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. How are you and the children? I haven`t seen the children lately.
GRACE: Let me tell you something. I usually bathe them and get them all ready, give them their meds (ph) if they have to before, I come to work. Tonight, we played so hard. They were covered in dirt and something gooey on their face. I had to leave them for Daddy to bathe. They`re not going to like that. But otherwise they`re great.
What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I was just wondering, how did anybody find out about this affair she was having with this man?
GRACE: Well, I`ll tell you, Ann, I really think it was because of the surveillance video at a Citgo. I mean, come on! Out to you, Andrew Scott, former chief of police, Boca Raton, VP Scott Robertson Associates there in Miami. When you see a woman come in with the same guy, getting coffee every day, weeks on end, caught on surveillance, and he`s suddenly 2,000, 3,000 bucks missing out of his account, gets rid of his car, she`s gone, they`re both gone. You know, it adds up. Two and two I think is still four, right?
ANDREW J. SCOTT, FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON: I think that`s a clue, Nancy, that, clearly, that there was some intent on both of their parts to leave. And frankly, you know, there`s no crime for being stupid, and she was pretty stupid to do what they`ve done and create the problems that they created for the police department.
GRACE: But Andrew Scott, setting it up to look as if she had been kidnapped? That`s just not walking out on your family.
SCOTT: No, I agree with you, Nancy.
GRACE: That`s (INAUDIBLE) major problem.
SCOTT: That`s correct. But they`re going to have to show intent, that that`s what she was trying to do to charge her.
GRACE: You`re right, Andrew.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH`S BABY-SITTER: There`s nothing to break me of.
I don`t know where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bottom line, you don`t know where Haleigh is.
MISTY CROSLIN: Bottom line.
FLORA HOLLARS, MISTY`S AND JOE`S GRANDMOTHER: ... pointing a spot out on the river on the TV.
MISTY CROSLIN: They set me up.
HOLLARS: This is something you should have said a long time ago.
MISTY CROSLIN: I was freaking out. I was, like, man (INAUDIBLE)
HOLLARS: She said, But Nanny, I was scared.
MISTY CROSLIN: Today`s a very bad day for me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They brought the family members into the sheriff`s office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s now officially a homicide case.
GRACE: ... the search for little Haleigh`s entire body and the murder weapon...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They can start making funeral arrangements.
MISTY CROSLIN: Tomorrow`s going to be a bad day for me, too, OK?
GRACE: What scenario do you believe unfolded?
HOLLARS: Exactly what Misty told me, about the rope and the cinderblocks and dropping her in the St. John`s River.
GRACE: What do you think happened that night?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chances are that she`s dead. And that may be so, but statistics have also been proven wrong.
GRACE: Do you think she could have anything to do with this?
MISTY CROSLIN: I don`t know where she is!
I`m not hiding anything.
Me being in a jail has nothing to do with Haleigh.
HOLLARS: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re doing everything they can to push her hot buttons.
MISTY CROSLIN: I`m serious. I was, like, Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They hope to shock her into some sort of revelation...
MISTY CROSLIN: It was crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... or some sort of piece of information they can compare to what she said before...
MISTY CROSLIN: When I went to sleep, she was there, and then when I woke up, she was gone!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that will bring it one step closer to a conclusion and an arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She does not deserve this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The family split down the middle about what happened the night 5-year-old Haleigh went missing. They join us tonight. But first to Jean Casarez from "In Session." Jean what`s the latest?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, the latest is, Nancy, law enforcement is now saying that any bones at the river`s edge were not human, they were animal. But in the same breath, Nancy, they`re not refuting the local claims that cinderblocks were taken out of that river and rope was taken from Tommy`s home.
GRACE: And the other thing is this, Marlaina Schiavo. Even if -- we don`t -- all these items are being tested. We don`t have the DNA results yet. But even if they do not have any of Haleigh`s bones, what if they`ve got pajamas? What if they`ve got her shoe? What if they`ve got her barrette she wore to bed at night? Lucy always tries to wear a barrette to be at night. What if they`ve got that? What about that? Are police denying that, too, Marlaina Schiavo?
MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Police will not tell us what they have, but we know what they do have is enough to call this a homicide investigation, Nancy. It`s enough to talk to Ronald and Crystal and tell them that they have to start making some sort of arrangements to get a death certificate or to maybe start planning a funeral and start thinking about that. So even though they`re not being specific, we know they have something significant that they are working on.
GRACE: Joining us right now, two very special guests. Out of Nashville, Tennessee, Flora Hollars. This is Misty and Tommy Croslin`s grandmother. They called her from behind bars and gave their accounts of what happened the night Haleigh apparently was murdered.
Also with us, Annette Sykes, joining us exclusively. This is Haleigh`s great-grandmother. She was there at the home just hours before Haleigh disappeared.
First to you, Ms. Sykes. What did you observe in the home that evening?
ANNETTE SYKES, HALEIGH`S GREAT-GRANDMOTHER: I stopped by about 7:30 to drop off some laundry that I had done. I always did the children`s laundry just because it`s something I`ve always done. And the children were on the front porch with Misty. They were eating supper. And when we drove up, Haleigh jumped out of her chair and come running up and gave me a hug. And Junior came out and gave me a hug, and I gave them a kiss. And Misty walked out. She helped carry some of the clothes into the house and got the children`s shirts on, and they got back up to eat supper. I gave them a kiss, told them good-bye, and I got back in the car and left.
GRACE: So all along, Ms. Sykes, Misty Croslin has told us that that evening she spent that evening doing laundry, doing the kids` laundry. So that`s not true. You did the laundry?
SYKES: She did hers and Ronald`s and the household laundry, but I did the children`s clothes because I didn`t like them -- I didn`t like them to have stains or anything on them. I`m real -- I just always did their laundry, the children`s laundry. They did their own...
GRACE: And at that time...
SYKES: ... the adults` and the household laundry.
GRACE: And at that time, Ms. Sykes, Ronald Cummings was already at work?
SYKES: Yes. Absolutely.
GRACE: OK. So he`s out of the picture. Ms. Sykes, I know that by now, you are aware that Ms. Hollars, who is Misty Croslin and Tommy Croslin`s grandmother -- she`s the one, one of ones, that called police, that ended up mounting this search of the St. John`s River -- really believes that Ronald Cummings, your grandson, is partially at fault. What`s your response?
SYKES: I heard what she said on your show about Ronald being responsible because he left the children with her and she was all strung out. But I was there, and she was not strung out. I mean, she was walking and talking just -- I mean, I talked to her. Like I said, she helped me carry the laundry in. She had fixed supper for the children. They were eating.
HOLLARS: I have a question for you. Why didn`t Teresa take those kids home with her when Misty offered to pay for her to take her home?
SYKES: I was not aware that she did.
HOLLARS: She most certainly did.
GRACE: OK, hold on just a moment. Ms. Hollars, where are you getting that information?
HOLLARS: I got that information from every one of them in Florida. All my kids down there knew that.
GRACE: So that came from Misty Croslin?
HOLLARS: It came from Misty. It also came from her mama. And it also...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait, stop. Who was there when she asked Ms. Neves to take the children?
HOLLARS: That I don`t know.
GRACE: Well, what other people may tell you that weren`t there really doesn`t account for anything. But Ms. Hollars, I want to go back over your assertion about what Misty told you, what Tommy Croslin told you from behind bars. Ms. Hollars, now I understand that you believe there`s a scenario in which little Haleigh was molested before she was murdered.
HOLLARS: I feel like that.
GRACE: Why?
HOLLARS: I just don`t know, but that`s what I think.
GRACE: Isn`t it true that there has been a scenario put out there, and it had to come from behind bars, that Misty Croslin heard the child in the next room screaming?
HOLLARS: Yes.
GRACE: Where did that come from.
HOLLARS: So did little Junior hear the couch bouncing.
GRACE: And my question is, where did that story come from?
HOLLARS: It came from Misty.
GRACE: What did she say?
HOLLARS: That she heard Haleigh in there crying.
GRACE: And who was in the room with Haleigh?
HOLLARS: I`m going to say Joe or Tommy, one.
GRACE: Or both?
HOLLARS: Or both.
GRACE: And what, if anything, did Misty Croslin do to take care of Haleigh?
HOLLARS: According to what she told me when all this was going on, she`d already had been threatened by Joe, and she grabbed Junior and got into bed, and they covered up their heads completely. And when she took the covers off of her head, Haleigh was gone.
GRACE: To Ms. Sykes, Annette Sykes.
SYKES: Yes?
GRACE: This is Haleigh Cummings`s great-grandmother. That`s the first time I have heard that scenario over the airwaves. What is your response? She would stay there with a sheet over her head while a child screamed in the next room.
SYKES: That`s the first time I`ve ever heard that. I`ve never heard that before. I was not aware of that. I`ve not ever heard that story before. I really don`t know. I -- it`s -- I mean, I don`t see how anybody could do that, if it`s true. But I don`t know. I`ve not ever heard that story before. I`ve heard so many stories. We all have. And you never know what to believe anymore. My thing is that they`re going to have to prove to me anything that they tell me. If they want me to believe it, they`re going to have to prove it.
GRACE: Ms. Sykes, what do you think of them searching -- the police searching the St. John`s River?
SYKES: Well, evidently, they had some tip. Somebody called them. And they were down there searching. And I went down there early that morning and didn`t -- you know, they wouldn`t tell me anything. And I wasn`t -- I knew what they were searching -- you know, I knew they were looking for something participating (SIC) to Haleigh, but I didn`t really know what.
HOLLARS: I was the one that called you and told you that.
SYKES: Yes, she did. Ms. Hollars called me and told me -- she certainly did -- that she had called down here and told them what Tommy had told her. And Teresa and I went and -- over to that area and walked around all afternoon and looked in the woods over there. But of course, we didn`t find anything.
GRACE: Everyone, we are going to break...
SYKES: And then the next morning...
GRACE: ... and we are taking your calls live. But a special thank you to our FaceBook crime fighters, Kansas friend Candace, pregnant with twins, Virginia friend Yvonne, a legal secretary, and Ohio friend Nora, who checks in every night on FaceBook. FaceBook friends, thank you.
Everybody, submit your photos at CNN.com/nancygrace and then click on FaceBook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What scenario do you believe unfolded? What do you think happened that night?
RONALD CUMMINGS, HALEIGH`S FATHER: How (EXPLETIVE DELETED) could you let my daughter get stole (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
HOLLARS: Exactly what Misty told me, that the rope and the cinderblocks and...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. But right now, calling in from Cape Cod is Timmy Croslin`s wife, Chelsea Croslin, who was living near Satsuma the night little Haleigh went missing. Chelsea Croslin, thank you for calling.
CHELSEA CROSLIN, MISTY`S SISTER-IN-LAW (via telephone): Yes? Hi.
GRACE: Yes...
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Nancy?
GRACE: Hi, dear. Thank you for calling. Where were you that night, Chelsea?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: I was at my home the night that Haleigh went missing.
GRACE: Chelsea, what do you make of all the scenarios -- Chelsea, you need to cut your television off, if you can, or down.
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Yes, I went upstairs. I`m sorry.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. OK, back to Chelsea Croslin. This is Timmy Croslin`s wife calling us tonight from Cape Cod. She was living in the Satsuma area the night Haleigh went missing. Chelsea Croslin, what do you make of Tommy Croslin and Misty Croslin, really, their jailhouse confessions they gave to their grandmother?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: For one, I don`t believe that they gave their grandmother jailhouse confessions at all. I think if they did, it would be on tape. I believe that arrests would have already been made. Our family, everybody has been -- you know, not us, but Tommy, Misty, Joe has all been taken in for their interrogations. I don`t believe that -- anything that Flo Hollars is saying I think is a complete lie. I don`t -- I do not see Misty sitting there and listening to her baby cry. I mean, not biological baby, but we loved that child just as much as I love my own. and she would have never let that happen. She would have not sat there and done that. I mean, she could have just easily...
GRACE: But Chelsea Croslin, why would Ms. Hollars make up a lie about her own flesh and blood?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Ms. Hollars has not been around our family for the last seven years that I have been with the Croslins.
HOLLARS: You lie.
CHELSEA CROSLIN: I have met Flo Hollars maybe two times. She is not involved in our family. So I don`t know why she would want to hurt and implicate three of her grandchildren. It`s just very sad that she would do that.
GRACE: Ms. Hollars, what`s your response to that?
HOLLARS: My response to that is why did she tell me the road to tell them to go at?
GRACE: Repeat?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: Well, Nanny, you -- Nanny, you were the one that said, Where do you want searched? And I said I wanted 309, not specifically a dock -- I said 309 because I got a letter from Misty stating that Joe might have had -- or Joe was the involving party. So from there, I called the detective, Kay Sangelica (ph), the head detective on the case. I told them about it.
HOLLARS: And so did I. And so did I.
CHELSEA CROSLIN: He did not follow up with it. So then from there, I asked Leonard Padilla. Leonard Padilla, will you help me fund a search? Because I don`t have money myself, and my goal in life is to find Haleigh. That`s all that matters to us.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait! Back to Chelsea Croslin. What did you tell police where they should search?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: I told them that Joe, when he was staying in Satsuma with us -- I lived in Crescent City, a little bit farther, but it`s all in the same area. He stayed at Tommy`s house for a few days until him and Ronald had had that falling out regarding the gun that he had stolen that was recovered. From there, he went and stayed at Lisa and Hank`s house. There was a car accident and Hank was airlifted off to Gainesville. I`m talking about Hank, senior.
GRACE: So are you saying that you believe Joe Overstreet is involved in Haleigh`s disappearance?
CHELSEA CROSLIN: I do believe Joe Overstreet is involved in the disappearance. I don`t know if Joe is the one that actually did do the harm and killed her, or whatever this horrible news that`s out there.
GRACE: But wait a minute. Chelsea, there`s only three choices, Overstreet, Misty Croslin or Tommy Croslin.
CHELSEA CROSLIN: There`s not just three stories, Nancy. I believe -- you know, there`s many more things, too. Like, what happens -- what happens if Haleigh overdosed because there was loose pills laying around in that house? And I don`t care what anybody says...
HOLLARS: No, there wasn`t.
CHELSEA CROSLIN: ... because I know for a fact there was.
GRACE: OK, hold on. Hold on. Just a moment. Hold on. Out to the lawyers, Richard Herman, you`ve got the whole family basically giving a scenario that implicates their own three family members.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s incredible, Nancy. And the caller is right. I mean, these are jailhouse phone calls. They`ve been recorded. Law enforcement has listened to them.
GRACE: So?
HERMAN: I`d like to know...
GRACE: I already know that!
HERMAN: Right, but then they would have acted (ph) months ago. They wouldn`t just have acted now immediately off of Ms. Hollars`s phone call. I want to know, does she have any contracts with any newspapers or any tabloids?
GRACE: No.
HERMAN: That`s what I want to know.
GRACE: Good try, Richard. Good try, Richard.
HERMAN: Ask her.
GRACE: OK. Fine. Ms. Hollars, do you have a contract or a deal with a newspaper, radio or TV? Have you made any money off this story?
HOLLARS: I have not made a penny off this story. I have told exactly what those two kids has told me. And if none of them down there don`t like it, they can kiss where the sun don`t shine!
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK, we`ll just cut out on that. And very quickly, Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, if all this is made up, why is it that the police appear to be finding things in the river?
GRACE: And Eleanor?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I hate to agree with a defense attorney, but yes, that`s true. There`s an air of truth to it, and it`s being corroborated.
GRACE: Very quickly, to Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach County chief medical examiner. Weigh in on whether you would expect to find Haleigh`s remains if they had been thrown in the river.
DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH COUNTY CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, that`s a good question. Quite frankly, if they don`t find them, I wouldn`t be surprised. I think it depends on how far they want to search. But certainly, they may find bones.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLLARS: First thing that I was told was that Joe had killed her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: WJXT is reporting that two cinderblocks have been pulled during that massive search in the St. John`s River.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without a body, the case against Haleigh`s killer may have to be built entirely on circumstantial evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What led you to change your mind? You first insisted to me several weeks ago no way was Misty remotely involved. But then you changed your mind and you yourself called police.
HOLLARS: Yes, I did. I changed my mind when I put two and two together that she knowed where to go to at the river. She`s involved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Richard Herman, defense attorney, New York. Richard, why do you say things like, Maybe Flora Hollars is getting paid? Now, I want to see Herman! That`s so irresponsible to just throw something out there like that!
HERMAN: It`s not irresponsible, Nancy.
GRACE: She could be a witness at trial.
HERMAN: No.
GRACE: She`s not getting paid! Paid by who, me?
HERMAN: Ms. Sykes -- Ms. Sykes...
GRACE: She`s not.
HERMAN: Ms. Sykes completely obliterated her statement that Misty was wrecked that night that he left her there with the baby. Come on! There`s no credibility to what Ms. Hollars is saying. She`s just babbling, getting her two minutes of fame right now.
GRACE: No, that`s not true...
HERMAN: That`s what`s going on here.
GRACE: ... because Eleanor Odom, she is repeating -- you know what? Here`s the deal. Police have all these phone calls recorded so this is going to ultimately be settled when those tapes are played, bottom line.
ELEANOR ODOM: Exactly, Nancy. And maybe Ms. Sykes didn`t see her under the influence of anything while she was there, but that doesn`t mean that Misty didn`t go and get high later on that evening.
GRACE: I didn`t know you and Misty were on a first-name basis, Eleanor.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: I hear you, Herman. Odom, weigh in.
PETER ODOM: Nancy, I agree with Richard. You have to ask these questions because...
GRACE: Oh, so...
PETER ODOM: ... her testimony is going to be subject...
GRACE: ... second verse same as the first.
PETER ODOM: ... great scrutiny, and it would be irresponsible not to ask these questions.
GRACE: You know what?
PETER ODOM: What is her possible motivation?
GRACE: You two -- you, Peter Odom, you, Richard Herman, the two weak sisters of the legal panel tonight because you`re coming up -- you`re just making stories up, like Hollars got paid.
Bethany Marshall, weigh in.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I don`t think this is a story a grandmother would make up about her grandchildren.
GRACE: I don`t, either.
MARSHALL: I think the story -- the story about the boys in the other room and the baby screaming is Misty`s manipulative attempt to distract the attention...
GRACE: Blame somebody else.
MARSHALL: ... away from her. And these stories will come out. I think they haven`t so far because Misty has told so many lies that they would...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What about it, Ellie Jostad?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, we`re not going to find out right away what was said on the tapes. Police have said they`re not going to release them because it`s part of an active investigation. However, they will confirm that Flora and Tommy talked, although Tommy`s lawyer says he only told her to call his lawyer.
GRACE: I mean, Terry Shoemaker, attorney for Ron Cummings, they all know their calls are recorded, right?
TERRY SHOEMAKER, ATTORNEY FOR RONALD CUMMINGS (via telephone): Absolutely. I`ve been burned many times in the St. John`s County jail system, where my clients have talked on a telephone call and it came back to haunt them, so...
GRACE: And I`m sure...
SHOEMAKER: ... if there are phone calls, it`ll be there.
GRACE: ... you advise them -- I`m sure you advise them beforehand, Don`t yak on the phone. Just try to hold it in.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Harrison "Duck" (ph) Brown, 31, Printer (ph), Alabama, killed, Iraq on a third tour, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, lost his life Easter Sunday. Left studies and a football scholarship at Tuskegee to enlist, loves sports. The gentle giant leaves behind grieving mom, Chris Ann (ph), two brothers, widow and high school sweetheart Delisha (ph), three children. Harrison Brown, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
