Return to Transcripts main page


Immigration Controversy; Congress Grills Goldman Sachs

Aired April 27, 2010 - 15:00   ET


RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much, Ali.

Here's a direct quote: "Dirty Mexicans in San Antonio" -- and the man they called pineapple face. Let's go to the LIST.


SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making the list on this day

Yesterday, Tim Tebow's family is compared to Nazis. Now what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congrats to all the dirty Mexicans in San Antonio.

SANCHEZ: A sport talk hosts calls residents of San Antonio dirty Mexicans. We're calling him out.

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: It's gambling, pure and simple.

SANCHEZ: The debate begins, how investment schemes almost buried our economy and how to stop it from happening again.

How will police in Arizona know who is illegal?

GOV. JAN BREWER (R), ARIZONA: I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like.

SANCHEZ: If the person who signed the law doesn't know, then who does?

BREWER: I know that if AZ Post works on this law, that the law will be enforced.

SANCHEZ: AZ Post means the state police. What will their description be? An Arizona police chief who supports the law joins me live. And he is Hispanic.

The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list, pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.


SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. And here's what's topping the LIST right now. What you and I have been talking about, e-mailing about and tweeting about has finally caught up on Capitol Hill, this maddening hearing that you may have missed today. But we certainly didn't miss it. It involves Goldman Sachs.

These are the folks accused of knowingly selling toxic securities to unsuspecting clients and making money off of their clients' losses. These are complicated strategies devised by some real smart guys. We have talked about this. Well, you wouldn't know just how smart they were by hearing them testify today, because they didn't understand the questions.

They didn't remember what happened. It wasn't their job. But that didn't stop the questioners. I want you to listen to Carl Levin -- we're going to begin with him -- using unusually salty language to question a fellow named Daniel Sparks. He's the former head of Goldman's mortgage department that was caught up right in the middle of all this.

Go ahead, Roger.


SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: Look what your sales team was saying about Timberwolf. "Boy, that Timberwolf was one (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal."



LEVIN: They sold that "(EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal."

SPARKS: Mr. Chairman, this e-mail was from the head of the division, not the sales force. This was...


LEVIN: Well, whatever it was, it's an internal -- it's an internal Goldman document.

SPARKS: This was an e-mail to me in late June...

LEVIN: Right.

SPARKS: ... after the transaction...

LEVIN: And you sold Timberwolf -- no, no, you sold Timberwolf after, as well.

SPARKS: We did trades after that.

LEVIN: Yes, OK. The trades after you...

SPARKS: Some context might be helpful.

LEVIN: Context, let me tell you, the context is mighty clear. June 22 is the date of this e-mail."Boy, that Timberwolf was one (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal." How much of that "(EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal" did you sell to your clients after June 22, 2007?

SPARKS: Mr. Chairman, I don't know the answer to that. But the price would have reflected levels that they wanted to invest...

LEVIN: Oh, of course.

SPARKS: ... at that time.

LEVIN: But they don't know it's a -- you didn't tell them you thought it was a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal.

SPARKS: Well, I didn't say that.

LEVIN: No. Who did? Your people, internally. You knew it was a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) deal, and that's what your...

SPARKS: And again, I...

LEVIN: ... e-mail showed.


SANCHEZ: So, this investment that they were peddling, which they, themselves, called crappy, was, guess what, their top sales priority.

I want to know if that's what Ali Velshi heard. He's our chief business correspondent. He's been there following this throughout the course of the day. Also joining me from New York -- and you know he knows Goldman Sachs backward and forward because he's been writing about it -- is Matt Taibbi, contributing editor for "Rolling Stone" magazine.

His latest column, in fact, is titled the "Fed v. Coldman" -- or "Goldman" -- pardon me.

Matt, was this tongue-lashing that we watched from Republicans, from Democrats, one after another, was this -- explain this to the American people why, if you believe this was -- well-deserved?

MATT TAIBBI, NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR, "ROLLING STONE": Oh, of course it was well-deserved.

These guys had an enormous share of responsibility for what happened in the in the financial crisis, and most of the public really doesn't know it.

And it's going to take Carl Levin doing this YouTube sensation performance that he did today I think to really attract the necessary attention to exactly what went on during the crisis. SANCHEZ: All right, let's talk about nuts and bolts here.

Ali, I want to bring you into this conversation. A big part of this is all about synthetic instruments, and we kept hearing those words today, synthetic instruments, as if we're talking about something made of rubber or something.

Actually, we're talking about something made of nothing. It's like selling air. There was really nothing there, but they put it together in such a way to sell it. Here's Claire McCaskill.


MCCASKILL: Let me just explain in very simple terms what synthetic CDOs are.

They are instruments that are created so that people can bet on them. It's the la la land of ledger entries. It's not investment in a business that has a good idea. It's not assisting local governments and building infrastructure. It's gambling, pure and simple, raw gambling.


SANCHEZ: She's saying there was no there there, that it was just, like, a poker match.

Ali, how much trouble is this for them, for Goldman?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, it's a poker match that ended up affecting a lot of people. It ended up shutting down the credit system, which meant companies couldn't get money, which meant that they had to lay people off, so that's why we care about this poker match.

How much trouble are they in? That's a good question. Goldman didn't much care about what the rest of us thought about them in the first place. Now this becomes more of an issue because there might actually be legislation that's going to affect their ability to do this business in the future.

I don't think they have done themselves any favors today, but Goldman hadn't done themselves any favors before this either. The last time Lloyd Blankfein, who, by the way, is going to be up very shortly to testify, the last time he decided to go on a P.R. offensive, it ended up being a disaster.

If you recall, Rick, he said that he was doing God's work. He meant it tongue-in-cheek. But the bottom line is, this is a problem. This was always a problem, that, if the public turns against Wall Street the way it has now, where the public favors legislation and regulation 2-1, even though they don't want the government involved in anything else, they want the government to legislate Wall Street, these companies and their ability to make money on these exotic synthetic instruments, they are going to be curtailed.

And that's where it's going to hit Goldman and all its colleagues, Goldman's counterparts on Wall Street.

SANCHEZ: And that is a good thing, right? That is a good thing. We want to be a country that produces things. I want to be proud to be an American, because, damn it, we make things here that are of value that people around the world can use.


VELSHI: We don't want to crush innovation. There are some of these things that actually are innovative and they can...


SANCHEZ: But innovation of selling air?

VELSHI: Well, innovation on -- is being able to hedge my price for oil or the price that my crop is going to sell for, but that is something that has an underlying asset that you're betting on. The issue of synthetic...


SANCHEZ: As long, Ali -- look, as long it doesn't involve dishonesty.

VELSHI: I think you're right about that.





SANCHEZ: I'm sorry. I don't mean to take -- I'm taking up all the air. Now you go.


VELSHI: No, that's right. You're absolutely right.


VELSHI: Go ahead, Matt.

TAIBBI: No, I was just saying, with the derivatives, at the very least, I think we have to have a system where all of these things are traded and cleared on regulated, open exchanges.

Imagine what the stock market would look like if nobody knew what the price of any of the stocks were? And that's kind of exactly where we are with derivatives right now.


VELSHI: Right.

TAIBBI: This stuff is all traded in the dark and the big whales in the ocean, like Goldman Sachs, are the ones that make all the money because they have more information than everybody else.

And that's a situation that we really need to correct here. And that's what this bill hopefully is going to address.

SANCHEZ: And, yes, derivatives is a big part of this.


SANCHEZ: But it is at some point important for Americans to at least understand, fine, I respect you for your business model. Go out. Make billions of dollars if you have to, but don't do it by selling something which is a shell game, a charade that's taking advantage possibly of some of your investors. Is that not a fair argument to make, Ali?

VELSHI: Well, Rick, here's the thing. If it doesn't affect anybody else, if you and I make a bet on something that doesn't affect somebody else and isn't going to magnify an economic downturn or an upturn, for that matter, what do we care if they do it?


VELSHI: The issue is, did this trigger or at least contribute to an international credit freeze, which meant that your employer or mine or one of our viewers' employers couldn't raise money? And when a company can't raise money, they have to cut costs. When a company has to cut costs, they lay people off. And then those people don't -- can't pay for their mortgages.

That's where this becomes...


SANCHEZ: That's a hell of a good point, because in the end it was the end result that got us all -- take us out, Matt Taibbi. We have got 20 seconds to finish up.

TAIBBI: Yes, I just want to make the point that we do regulate things like gambling.

And, for instance, in the year 2000, the Commodities Futures Modernization Act, it specifically made derivatives exempt from state gaming laws, because it's virtually indistinguishable from gambling. If we don't want gambling going on anyplace except for Atlantic City and Vegas, we certainly don't want it going on, on Wall Street, right?


SANCHEZ: You know, it's the most obvious point that has been made so far. If we regulate gambling, then we should certainly regulate the people on Wall Street, if they're going to be gambling with their money, my money, our money, whatever. Guys, great conversation, as usual. I enjoyed it. We will come back to you both, Ali Velshi and Matt Taibbi.

Now take a look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They placed me and my other friend in the trunk, but, in the process, they took everybody's phones, but they didn't realize I still had my phone. So, I slipped my phone into my pants. And when I got in the trunk of the car, I was calling 911 over and over.


SANCHEZ: A nightmare 911 call from the inside the trunk of a car. If you're as claustrophobic as I am, you should hear this story, just to see what others go through.

And this:


SANCHEZ: Did you work for the CIA?

MANUEL NORIEGA, FORMER PANAMANIAN DICTATOR (through translator): I did not work. I wasn't an employee.


SANCHEZ: What were his ties to the CIA? Did he work for the CIA? Why is Manuel Noriega in the news today? Who was that guy interviewing him, by the way? And which list do you think he's on? That's ahead. Stay right there. That's next.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Rick. Deborah (ph) in Dallas.

Whose civil rights are you fighting for, the illegals' or the Americans'?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Rick. This is Dotty (ph) from Connecticut.

And I would like to know, what part of illegal people don't understand, including our president?


SANCHEZ: It is the conversation taking place in the state of Arizona, and everybody seems to be embroiled, people from all over the country on both sides. And, by the way, I want you to know that one of the police chiefs from Arizona, a guy who likes this bill, supports this as law, is going to be joining me in just a little bit. His name is Joe Martinez. Yes, he's a Hispanic fellow from Arizona and he's going to join me to talk about what to do now with this law to actually encode it in some way.

Also, take a look at this. You see that stolen iPhone? We told you all about it last week, right? Well, the secrets from that iPhone and that controversy, it is heating up. There's been a police raid involved in this story, and I'm going to tell you how it went down.

Also, this -- all the screaming and all the yelling that you may have missed today in the Senate about Goldman Sachs, we got it.

Speaking of yelling, look who is going to be taking us through politics of this heated process. There is Jessica. She's next. Stay right there, back in two.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. This is your list, RICK'S LIST.

I have got to bring Jessica into this thought process that I have been having.

I was watching the Goldman Sachs thing this morning. And I was watching, you know, the rituals and the swearing-in, and I flashed back to this. I want to take you now to 1987. That's not Farrah. That's not Farrah Fawcett.


SANCHEZ: It's -- it's -- who is that? Who is that woman?

YELLIN: I remember so well. That's Fawn Hall. You remember? She was the White House secretary who became famous during the Iran- Contra hearings. Congress dragged her up to testify under oath because she worked with Oliver North and admitted to shredding some documents.

But I swear, I'm so with you on this. Fabrice Tourre is the Fawn Hall of the meltdown hearings.

SANCHEZ: Yes. That's this guy who worked for Goldman. There were two of them who apparently were the boy geniuses who came up with some of these derivatives and some of these things that they -- these synthetic items that they were talking about today.

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: Have we got tape of him? In fact, yes, look, we got him on tape. Listen to some of his testimony and then you and I are going to talk about him on the backside. Go ahead. Hit that, Rog. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FABRICE TOURRE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, STRUCTURED PRODUCTS GROUP TRADING, GOLDMAN SACHS: as you know, the Securities and Exchange recently filed a civil suit alleging that I failed to disclose to investors certain material information regarding the transaction that I helped to structure, named Abacus 0781 (ph). I deny categorically the SEC's allegations, and I will defend myself in court against this false claim.


SANCHEZ: He will defend himself in court. Americans are looking at this and going, who are these guys, what were they up to, and are they stonewalling? And you report what?


YELLIN: Sure they're stonewalling, Rick, but this is the way this theater is done.

I mean, how many times have we seen this play run out at hearings on Capitol Hill? I think Tourre is like Fawn Hall not because he's necessarily guilty of something heinous, but because he's a junior guy who got dragged into this big, unfolding public scandal.

Whatever he did right or wrong, you can be confident he was not a lone Wolf. His bosses no doubt knew what was going on. And it's kind of unbecoming when you see senators grandstand by embarrassing some junior employee for self-aggrandizing e-mails. He sent some very embarrassing e-mails referring to himself as the Fab Fab, Fab Fabrice, I guess.

SANCHEZ: The Fab Fabrice.

YELLIN: He's kind of fab. He's got a thing going, but I just think...

SANCHEZ: Right. He's the French Fawn Hall, I suppose?

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: The male French Fawn Hall?

Hey, let's make sense of this for viewers, because I'm sitting here listening to you give your report and I'm kind of thinking as a viewer out there, let's not confuse the folks. What's going on there that we saw there was a Homeland Security hearing on what may have happened to our country as a result of Goldman.

Something else is about to happen, which is the financial reform movement of the legislation to really put the screws to these guys on Wall Street. That comes later, right? So, we're kind of hearing the underpinnings of that, but that's coming a little bit later. And what do you expect to happen there? YELLIN: Well, what they're doing is, they're -- this is making the case for financial reform. So over in the Senate, there's going to be another vote on this measure for Wall Street reform while they're having this public hearing sort of flogging Wall Street for the problems that caused the meltdown. So, you know, it's happening -- this is -- this is the public relations case...


SANCHEZ: So, how can Republicans, then, go here to this committee hearing and blast Goldman for all the things that they may or may not have done and then go back to the big general legislative stuff and say to Democrats, no, I'm not going to support the debate to legislate financial reform? It seems to me to be conflictive.

YELLIN: It is on its face.

The Republicans, Rick, will say that they support financial reform; they just want it in a -- they want some changes. And I do think in the end you will see a bill passed with Republican support. So, they're negotiating the bill right now, but this is going to get through, most likely.

I think the big sort of irony here is that every senator on that committee, Republican, Democrat, everybody who is grilling those Goldman Sachs guys...


YELLIN: ... knows it wasn't just Goldman doing this.

SANCHEZ: Of course not.

YELLIN: And, also, they're forgetting it was their job to do oversight.


YELLIN: And they failed in that. And that's the piece that isn't getting out, while they are flogging these junior executives at Goldman. What was Congress' job and why were they asleep at the switch?

SANCHEZ: And both parties, Democrats and Republicans, going all the way back through Reagan, through Bush, through Clinton, through Bush, this is not about one party getting it right and the other one getting it wrong, just for the record.

YELLIN: Right.

SANCHEZ: Good stuff. Listen, enjoyed the conversation. And let's see what happens.

I think at 4:30 we might get some movement on the financial reform legislation. We're going to be watching it. And Jessica will come back in about an hour, if, in fact, something happens and there's some news on that. Fascinating story.

All right. Take a look at this. Rog, hit it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Arizona law enforcement community is made up of many Hispanics. We have never had a policy of racial profiling -- in fact, quite the contrary.


SANCHEZ: How will police come up with a law that describes what illegal immigrants look like? Yes, I'm going to ask an Arizona police chief who supports the law. And he is -- as you just saw, he's Hispanic.

Also, my first jailhouse interview was with a man who took on the United States military, and he lost. Who is today's most intriguing person in the news? What do they say, for me to know and for you to find out? Actually, that's coming up next, and we will share.

We will be right back.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Time to check the list for the most intriguing person in the news today.

Our most intriguing today just took his first airplane trip in more than 20 years. He landed in Paris this morning. Not bad, you say. Well, it's not for pleasure. It's to stand trial in France. That's after being a guest of the American prison system since 1990 for drug trafficking, money laundering and racketeering.

Figured out who he is yet? This was yesterday, when federal agents put him on an Air France flight. And watch this. I take you now back to the year 1995, when he gave a very young reporter named Rick Sanchez at WSVN in Miami his first jailhouse interview, when he was at that time the only political prisoner in the United States.

Take them back. Time travel. Roger, go.


SANCHEZ: Did you work for the CIA?

NORIEGA (through translator): I did not work. I wasn't an employee.

SANCHEZ: Why would the United States want to assassinate you?

NORIEGA (through translator): Bush. Bush. Not the United States, Bush.

SANCHEZ: Is it possible that George Bush wanted Noriega out of the way because Noriega had information that could embarrass him?

NORIEGA (through translator): Embarrassing for him, yes.

SANCHEZ: That brings me to a very interesting question. You have been quoted as saying, "I have the goods on George Bush."

NORIEGA (through translator): That is a question which has a lot of connotations of incrimination...


NORIEGA (through translator): ... in any response. So, I take my Fifth Amendment.

SANCHEZ: Will we ever know what that information is?

NORIEGA (through translator): Yes.


SANCHEZ: And as I reported during that series, by the way, George H.W. Bush denied what he said, what who said? You got it, Manuel Noriega -- Manuel Noriega Moreno, former general, former military dictator of panama.

France has always wanted to try him on money laundering charges. Now they have him. Panama also wants to try him for murder. Manuel Noriega, on this day, and in 1995, and for what he's about to go through, becomes at the very top of the list for the person most intriguing on this day.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Saw nine or 10 tweets, and it just got worse and worse as the night went on.


SANCHEZ: Who would call residents of San Antonio, residents of San Antonio -- quote -- "dirty Mexicans, "dirty Mexicans," and will keep his high-profile job? Which list do you think he's on? I will share.

And if you're ready to shake a leg, we're ready to show you a gator on a doorstep. That's in "Fotos." That's next.

And, hey, by the way, you notice that from time to time we have people here in the studio with us? Well, if you would like to join us here when you visit Atlanta or even if you just want to visit Atlanta, all you got to do's call this number. It's 1-877-4CNN-TOUR, 1-877- 4CNN-TOUR.

And your national conversation, your list, RICK'S LIST, will scroll on in a minute-and-a-half.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR, RICK'S LIST: Before we do anything else, I just want too let you know that we're getting a lot of reaction on what's going on in Arizona, have been for the last couple of days and it's not coming not just from many of you who tweet and many of you who send e-mails, but from celebrities as well who've been following this story, celebrities like George Lopez. He's on our list of celebrities that we watch relative to the news that we follow and there he is now. He just tweeted, Arizona, George Lopez is coming, oops, I just got pulled over. Apparently I fit the profile. Gacho! There's George Lopez and his tweet, we'll follow up. Thank you for sending your tweets as well.

You know that when you're home, you feel good, with your wife or your kids, or in my case more often my dog meets me at the front porch. That's comforting for most of us. You get home from work, right? If you're a guy, it's your wife and your kids, if you're a gal, maybe it's your husband, unless, of course, you live in a part of the United States where it's a little different. Let's do "fotos."

What if instead you arrive to see this cuddly fellow waiting at your front porch? Luckily no one was home but a neighbor filmed this alligator. This is in Volusia County, Florida, very familiar with Volusia County, spent a lot of time there. Strange the carnivorous reptile seemed to just want to take a stroll in the garden and check things out, slipped away just in time to avoid fish and wildlife officials who, because of its size, may have had to take it out, if you know what I mean.

Let's go to Columbia, South Carolina, now, this is Friday night the site of the Congressman James Clyburn's annual world-famous fish fry. And who is that? Who is that? Why, that's Steny Hoyer and he's doing the electric slide. The 70-year-old House Steny Hoyer -- House Representative Steny Hoyer and 69-year-old Clyburn proved that they are well, if not great dancers, certainly young at heart.

You ever end up with your egg on your face at work? Usually that means embarrassment, but in Ukraine's parliament today, it meant (INAUDIBLE) Opposition members threw eggs at their speaker during a session to try and renew Russia's lease on the Black Sea port. They didn't stop there. They also set off smoke bombs in the middle of a chamber. Talk about a contentious debate.

By the way, this video, like the others, including a dancing Steny Hoyer, can all be seen on "fotos del dia" if you go to


GOV. JAN BREWER (R) ARIZONA: I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like. I can tell you that I think that there are people in Arizona that as soon as they --


SANCHEZ: OK, that's the pivotal question in all of this. Arizona's doing what the Feds won't do, but how do they codify what an illegal immigrant looks like? I mean, you heard the governor use that language right there, so I'm going to talk to a police chief in Arizona about this issue.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They placed me and my other friend in the trunk. But in the process they took everybody's phones, but they didn't realize I still had my phone, so I slipped my phone into my pants and when I got in the trunk of the car, I was calling 911 over and over.


SANCHEZ: And following up on a 911 call made from the trunk of a car. The trunk of a car? You'll hear it. That, by the way is part of the "Brooke block" and it's next.


SANCHEZ: All right, welcome back. We've got some developing news coming in to the CNN newsroom right now and it involves a Delta flight. It's Delta flight 273. It was heading from Paris to Atlanta, but apparently it's now been diverted and it's going to go to Bangor, Maine, instead. As we understand it is, the reason that this flight is being diverted, instead of flying into Atlanta and going to Maine is that there's been some kind of a disruption in the airplane itself, having to do with a disruptive passenger. Apparently there is a Federal air marshal on board this plane and he now has that passenger in custody. We really don't know much more about this story, outside of that, but obviously and one would think this is the kind of story that we're probably going to be getting a little more information on it.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Just coming out here, I started getting a couple more e-mails and that's really all we have right now. But any time you have an unruly passenger these days and an air marshal on board, you take it very seriously.

SANCHEZ: And that's not to say we don't know at this point whether this is a political disruption or any quasi-terroristic disruption.

BALDWIN: Or someone who --

SANCHEZ: Or a guy who had too much drinks and put a lampshade on his head or something like that. We really don't know, really. The key thing is in custody, disruptive passenger that's what we know and obviously as we find out more, we are going to be sharing that information with you. It probably won't be too long. Angie, do we know when that flight's going to land? We are. W e got that live picture? We can't use it. She's got a live shot in there of the airport in Bangor, Maine, so as soon as we watch the plane land we'll share some of those pictures with you. We'll all watch it together and we'll see what the deal is with this passenger. In the meantime --

BALDWIN: I can fill.

SANCHEZ: Exactly. And you're real good at that. Tell me what you got.

BALDWIN: Two items on my list today, first it's a really scary situation for a couple of college students out of Atlanta. It's one of the stories just imagine what in the world would you do? These college students are walking near Morehouse University, it's downtown. They have a couple of guys running out of the bushes essentially, carjack them, force them into their car, two students forced in the back seat. The other two get shoved in the trunk. They spoke out. Obviously, they were terrified.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He stuck a gun to my head, stuck his arm when I was trying to run out. He stuck his arm in the car and took the key out of the ignition. I don't care about killing you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They placed me and my other friend in the trunk but in the process they took everybody's phone so I slipped my phone into my pants and when I got into the trunk of the car I was calling 911 over and over.


SANCHEZ: The suspects weren't students, right?

BALDWIN: No, no, not that we know of and at least two have been caught. But you notice that whole thing was creatively shot. That's because they didn't want to show their faces at the time. They hadn't caught anyone, but you heard him mention one of the guys in the trunk just so happened still had his cell phone in his pocket and I want to play you this 911 tape. He's pretty calm, whispering to police. Listen.


911: The campus police, what's the emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are being robbed. We're up the street by the YMCA, they are --

911: Hold on, sir? Hold on? You say you're in college town?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we're in the trunk of the car. We're in the trunk of the car. (INAUDIBLE) They said they are going to shoot us.


SANCHEZ: Wow. We're in the trunk of a car. The guy's sitting there --

BALDWIN: Imagine because you don't want to talk too loud because you got the bad guys in the front of the car, right? SANCHEZ: But, you know, this points out that there's some great things about going to a university in a major city. I sent my son to school in a major city.


SANCHEZ: Right. As opposed to a rural town like maybe University of Florida, in Gainesville or something like that, there's a lot of schools -- this I imagine is in Atlanta?


SANCHEZ: A lot of great schools in Atlanta and it's wonderful that you get all the benefits of living in a big metropolitan area but it also tends to be more of a high crime area as well. And this is kind of the problem.

BALDWIN: And there have been problems. This isn't certainly the first problem, but at least they were able to get a hold of campus police. The guy just so happened to have the campus police phone number in his pocket and then eventually (INAUDIBLE) were able to respond and they've caught two of the guys. One's still on the loose, but scary, scary information.

SANCHEZ: Do you have new information? Do you remember that iPhone story we did?

BALDWIN: Yeah, so many of you were talking about this and I have an update on the story of the missing iPhone. The Apple engineer remember he left it in his car. He had a few too many beers.

SANCHEZ: This is top secret stuff.

BALDWIN: This is top secret, the next generation iPhone. Someone else picked it up at the bar and the tech blog, gizmodo. I talked to them the last time I did the story. They told me, yes, we paid $5,000 to get this phone. Well, Apple did finally get that phone back. They're highly secretive. They don't want to divulge any of their secrets, any protype, right, so they get this phone back. But according to the gizmodo blog, a high-tech crime investigation team goes to this guy's house. The editor of gizmodo and has a search warrant and raids it. There he was, sitting behind his computer. This is Jason Chen. He's not commenting today, tried reaching out to him. But on the website he writes about how the officers bashed into his front door while he was at dinner.

SANCHEZ: It was a raid. It was a raid.

BALDWIN: Absolutely. Because the search warrant said this equipment may have been used to commit a felony. We're still not hearing anything back from Apple. But it's a tricky situation because we're wondering if he's protected by the first amendment, you have your California shield laws and so they're thinking, wait a minute, you shouldn't be able to seize my journalistic property but it's blogger, journalist, that has to be figured out before they can actually take a look at the computers. SANCHEZ: Let's go back to the story that we're following out of Bangor, Maine. It looks like the plane is about to land there and from what we understand, there's some kind of problem with a passenger on the plane. What did you just say? Tell me again in my ear. The plane has just landed in Bangor, Maine, so we'll soon find out from officials there in -- at the airport and I imagine from the Federal air marshal what was the deal with this passenger. We'll bring you exactly what the details are, that story are, hopefully on the other side of this break. Let's take the break now, if we could, Rog, and we'll get back to this in just a moment.


SANCHEZ: All right, we've got a couple things going on. First of all, I see that there's a ton of tweets coming in. Everybody seems to be suggesting a question for the police chief in Arizona. And I'm going to share some of those with you in just a little bit.

But before we do that there's a developing story going on right now that I've been sharing with you that's going on in Bangor, Maine. Now, the situation as we understand it, it's, D delta flight, it's flight -- where are my notes? It's flight 273. Flight 273 has been diverted from Paris to Atlanta. In other words, it was going from Paris to Atlanta, I should say. It was diverted and it went instead to Bangor, Maine. The reason is that a -- there has been a problem with a passenger, a disruptive passenger. That's all we know. We know that there was a Federal air marshal on board and that Federal air marshal has now taken that passenger into custody. So, we're hoping to be able to get a live picture out of that airport in a minute, out of Maine, and when we do, we hope to be able to get some information from -- either some of the passengers or some of the Federal officials who are working that story. So, hang tight, folks and hopefully we'll get that to you in just a little bit.

But, let me tell you what's coming up next. Go to the video now, Rog. A brawl breaks out and it's not the Taiwan parliament this time. It's at a Mexican restaurant, a Mexican restaurant. What's going on here? I'm going to take you through it and then protests are continuing in Arizona, as we drill down on what the specifics are of the new immigration law. What will they be? Who should we talk to about this?

Well, let's try and get facts in this story and not just conjecture, so we're going to talk to this man right here, that's Joe Martinez. He's an Arizona police chief. He supports the law. He's a Hispanic and he's got a lot to say. So, we're going to talk to him in just a little bit. You stay right there. This is our marquee interview of the day and it is next.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. When we get any information on what's going on in Bangor, Maine, I will take you back there. In the meantime, we on this show specifically have been talking about the illegal immigrant crackdown in Arizona. Not only on the list since we have been doing RICK'S LIST, but even before that, when we used to just call ourselves the national conversation. And we have been taking you through this step by step, as the story has progressed. In fact, it was on this show back in October when I was doing an interview that you might recall, this went viral, with Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He had been asking people that he suspects are here illegally for their papers for years. So I was interested in asking him at the time -- this was before this law, before any of this, I asked him, well, how can you tell who might be an illegal immigrant and who might not be an illegal immigrant and here is the answer he gave that made news.


JOE ARPAIO: Has to do with their conduct, what type of clothes they're wearing, their speech. They admit it. They have phony ID, a lot of variables involved.

SANCHEZ: You judge people and arrest them based on their speech and the clothes that they're wearing, sir?

ARPAIO: When they're in a vehicle with someone who has committed a crime, we have the right to talk to those people. When they admit they are here illegally, we take action.


SANCHEZ: We have been drilling down on what the governor said after she signed Arizona's tough immigration law as almost a follow- up to what Joe Arpaio said and here is what she said Friday.


BREWER: I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like. I can tell you that I think there are people in Arizona that assume they know what an illegal immigrant look like. I don't know if they know that for a fact or not. But I know that if AZ post (ph) gets theirselves (sic) together, works on this law, puts down the description that the law will be enforced civilly, fairly and without discriminatory points to it.


SANCHEZ: Joe Martinez is a police chief in Kearney, Arizona. With this immigration law, has the state now -- or will the state actually codify what Joe Arpaio believed that he knew back then and what the governor seems to be saying you guys have to figure out within 90 days? Are you ready to do that, sir?

CHIEF JOE MARTINEZ, KEARNY, ARIZONA POLICE: I think so. I don't know that all of us would be pushing for the type of protocols that the Sheriff Arpaio has wanted to institute, but I think much of that has to do with the amount of resources that you have or don't have to put on some subject like that. I don't know that we need to ask the question of what an illegal alien looks like.

SANCHEZ: But that's what the governor said. I agree and I think most Americans do, but the governor came out on Friday and said, I don't know what they look like. And I don't know if they know in fact how to determine it, but the AZ post will give us a description. She said that.

MARTINEZ: And I think what she's getting at too and in fairness to the governor on that, she's not going to enforce it. But I think more than what someone would look like, I think what we're looking for here is not to target this, but as a set of circumstances unfold, as a situation unfolds, as those pieces of information come out as who was stopped on the side of the road, who we're talking to, as those pieces of information come in, if it becomes apparent that this group or these individuals we're talking to are here illegally and may be are part of a smuggling ring, it gives us some tools to now take care of that.

SANCHEZ: But you're taking it to a whole different degree. You just said smuggling ring. Now smuggling ring -- are you talking about human smuggling, drug smuggling or what are you talking about there?

MARTINEZ: They pretty much go hand in hand.

SANCHEZ: OK. Let's accept that they go hand in hand. Because the argument that is being made around the country is and the argument that is being joked by people like George Lopez just a little while ago is that -- and let's you and be as concrete as possible talking about this sir and I respect you so much for coming on and sharing this with us and getting Americans to understand what we're talking about. Are we talking about a situation where you pull a guy over who is not an illegal immigrant, who happens to be driving a car because he's got a busted headlight bulb in the back of his car or his brake lights aren't working properly. While you go to his car to say, sir, I'm going to have to give you a citation or a warning because your brake lights aren't working, blah, blah, blah. You have the right to look in the back seat to see of all the people who are sitting in his back seat which one looks like he might be an illegal immigrant and then you bust them or question them or take them in. That's the thought -- I'm not saying that's how it is, I'm saying that is what many people around the country have conjured up or have assumed at the extreme that this law could mean. Set us straight, sir.

MARTINEZ: I don't think that's realistic at all, particularly since Arizona, for a long, long time, has not advocated anything along those lines. In fact, there have been many things put out that from AZ post prior to this that precludes that we're not allowed to racially profile.

SANCHEZ: But that's what Joe Arpaio seems to be describing to me when he told me on this program that -- how they talk and how they dress and how they look. I mean --

MARTINEZ: I guess what I would tell you is I would leave Mr. Sheriff Arpaio defend his own policies here. What I would tell you is that in general, we're not going to target illegal aliens for being here illegally. We are -- we have a large population of Hispanics here in Arizona and that's been that way for a long, long time. What the state of Arizona has tried to do is -- SANCHEZ: You're looking for crimes committed and if I can add this word and you tell me if I'm right or wrong, you're looking for serious crimes.

MARTINEZ: Yes, and I think if people knew particularly like in the areas of Arizona where I work, an area on highway 177 we refer to as a copper corridor, that is a major route for smugglers. And so this traffic stop that you're referring to may be at 3:00 in the morning and when you pull that vehicle over, now all of a sudden what you thought was a vehicle with a lone driver, when you walk up to the vehicle, there are 10 people in that vehicle all crouched down. They've all got backpacks, a large amount of water, these are the circumstances --

SANCHEZ: You want the right to act on that. You know what, you're making a very sound argument and my producer is telling me we got to go because we got a bunch of stuff. Would you do me a favor, sir, would you come back and be on this show again and help us understand what is going on with this argument?

MARTINEZ: I would be happy to do that.

SANCHEZ: You're very kind to do so. And we'll continue this, because it is very important debate that people are having all over the country. I think it is important to cut to the chase and talk about the facts. Chief Martinez, Joe Martinez, my thanks, sir, for taking the time to join us today.

Take a look at this.