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Joy Behar Page
Sandra Bullock`s New Role; Interview with Gov. Bill Richardson
Aired April 28, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, rocker Bret Michaels hits a roadblock in his path to recovery. How serious is this setback? We`ll find out.
Then Sandra Bullock has been a very busy woman. She dumped her husband, moved out of her house and then adopted a baby. Now that`s what I call multi-tasking.
Laura Bush thinks she and the President may have been poisoned. Call me suspicious, but did a certain vice president made his famous rigatoni a la Cheney that night?
That and more right now.
After months of seclusion, Sandra Bullock has re-emerged with her new adopted baby son, Louis, and she`s confirmed to "People" magazine that she`s filed for divorce from husband, Jesse James, and will be raising the baby as single parent. Joining me now to discuss all this are: celebrity family law expert, Mark Vincent Kaplan who handled Kevin Federline`s and Bob Dylan`s divorces; E! Network`s Ben Lyons; and senior editor for "People" magazine, Kate Coyne.
Ok, Kate. Sandra has filed for divorce, and "People" has the exclusive interview. I read it, it was very interesting; tell everybody what she said.
KATE COYNE, SENIOR EDITOR, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, where to begin? I mean, she`s back, and she`s back with a baby. She`s back with a divorce filing. I mean, you know, she`s really firing on all cylinders here.
She has filed for divorce. She is a new mom. She`s actually been a mom for three months now and has managed to keep that a secret. And she`s getting ready to raise this child on her own.
BEHAR: Right. So Jesse James has responded. He shared this with "People" magazine today. He said, "Sandy is the love of my life and but considering the pain and devastation I have caused her it would be selfish to not let her go."
Now, do you think, Ben, that he`s trying to repair his image here?
BEN LYON, E! NETWORK: It`s not really his choice at this point. He`s literally made his bed and slept in it. So I think --
BEHAR: More than once.
LYONS: Yes, so I think it`s her choice. For him to say something like that, again, is another reason why you can`t help but root for Sandy in this situation and hope that she finds some happiness and hopefully this new child in her life is bringing that to her.
BEHAR: Well, Mark, couldn`t he have joint custody if he wanted it? They were married -- they are still married, when they adopted the child?
MARK VINCENT KAPLAN, CELEBRITY FAMILY LAW EXPERT: Well, my understanding is that she`s going to proceed as a single parent adoption. It will not be an adoption of the marriage, and consequently, I don`t believe he would have any custodial rights. He still could have stepparent rights if they were living together, but I don`t know that that`s going to happen. I don`t think anyone does at this point.
BEHAR: Well, the divorce papers which were filed in Texas say the grounds for the divorce include conflict of personalities that destroys the legitimate ends of the marriage relationship.
Now he has money. She has even more money. How does a celebrity -- like -- divorce like this play out, Mark? Tell us.
KAPLAN: Well, there could be a prenuptial agreement that affects their rights of support and property, but even if there is not, I believe that they will not be playing this out in a public forum like the court. I believe that they will reach an agreement and that the agreement will be just submitted to the court for approval as a judgment.
I don`t think we`re going to see a high-conflict battle. I think that Jesse James, from the statements I`ve seen, is very contrite, and Sandra Bullock is geared up for becoming a mom, a single mom for the first time. I think that`s where the focus and the energy is going to be.
I think they get the advantage of filing in Austin in Texas to keep it a little more private, a little more localized had they filed in California where that also could have gone forward.
Kate, in the middle of this, Sandra has adopted the baby. Now she began four years ago, this adoption process but she just got the baby in January, right?
COYNE: Right. The process actually began four years ago. But, you know, the adoption process most of the time when you see celebrities who are adopting, you look at Madonna or a situation like that and it seems like all of a sudden they have a baby. But for most of the people in the world including Sandra Bullock it`s a lengthy process filled with home studies and interviews and background checks and then endless waiting. Just waiting and waiting and that is what she and Jesse were doing.
BEHAR: How did she keep this a secret from the paparazzi?
LYONS: She had so much going on besides this of course. When you campaign for the award show season you`re busy talking about everything from your performance to the other nominees and the dresses and all that stuff so it almost seems like in a way even though she was everywhere it would be an easier time to keep it a secret because she could go out there and talk about all these other things including her film.
I hope this is the beginning of her returning to movies. That`s what I want to see her doing.
BEHAR: She says she`s taking a break for a while now. She needs a break.
LYONS: Maybe she`s first -- of course, she needs a break but I love her work on screen as a guy who loves movies. And I hope this is the beginning of her getting her life together and hopefully she can return to doing what she does best.
BEHAR: Doesn`t it show you, though, if you really want to hide from the paparazzi you can?
COYNE: Yes. I mean --
BEHAR: All these celebrities are always complaining about being followed by the paparazzi. All you have to do is take a page from Sandra Bullock`s book.
COYNE: Or Tiger Woods. I mean, look, when you want to drop out of sight, you can drop out of sight. We couldn`t find Tiger for months either. And she not only hid herself; she had a child.
So it`s pretty impressive. I mean she told us that it was like a CIA operation when it came to SUVs and decoy cars and decoy people just to go to a doctor`s appointment and yet she pulled it off.
BEHAR: Right.
Ok, now Jesse James also said this to "People" magazine today about the baby. He said, quote, "The love I have for Louis can not be put to words. Not having him around to love and to hold has left a huge hole in my heart." Do you think they could -- they say they`re going to co- parent all four kids? How many does he have?
COYNE: No, not all four. He has three, and she says that it`s her intention, her goal to continue to co-parent them with Jesse and also with Jesse`s first wife and his second wife. I mean --
BEHAR: What a cozy group.
COYNE: It takes a village -- there`s a lot of people raising these kids.
(CROSSTALK)
COYNE: She doesn`t want to end her relationship with his children. As for what Jesse`s relationship is going to be like with Louis, that`s still very much up in the air. She`s hopeful that he`ll be able to play some role at some point down the line, but co-parenting is overstating it.
BEHAR: This is fun. She said that she and Jesse had a bris for the baby. For those of you out there who don`t know what a bris is, it`s a religious Jewish ceremony where you do the circumcision. It`s interesting that she invited him to the bris, don`t you think?
LYONS: Yes, I do find that a little --
COYNE: No.
LYONS: No?
COYNE: They weren`t apart at that point. She didn`t invite him. They were still together. This was all before this thing about --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Wait a second.
LYONS: The idea of Jesse James at a bris is just hard for me put my head around in general, I think.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s what I`m driving at here. The guy is a --
LYONS: You don`t see many motorcycle guys at bris.
BEHAR: Not only the motorcycles --
COYNE: If you listen to what Sandra`s saying, this happened very early on. They were still together for the first two months that they had this child. They were together and that`s when the bris occurred.
BEHAR: And the rabbi kept his mouth shut, too, by the way.
(CROSSTALK)
COYNE: Everyone involved in the adoption kept their mouth shut. At the time, because they were being so quiet, they couldn`t go to a hospital for the circumcision. So what`s an at-home circumcision -- well, for lack of a better word it`s a bris. So they brought in the (INAUDIBLE) and they did all that, but this was well before Sandra learned anything about Jesse, including that photograph.
BEHAR: I know. But what I`m amused at is we`ve been talking for weeks about this -- a penchant that Jesse James has for this Nazi paraphernalia. And now you`re doing a Jewish ceremony. The irony does not escape me.
Does it escape you, Mark?
KAPLAN: Well, it`s -- obviously, there has to be a consent of participation at that time when they hadn`t yet filed for divorce or decided to even be separated. That`s something -- that`s a major decision, a cultural religious decision, so you know, I`m sure that he was on board with it.
And I`m sure that was the first major decision they had about at that point co-parenting, but obviously at this point that`s really not going to happen because I don`t believe that Jesse James is going to have any custodial rights unless he pursues them.
BEHAR: Well, let`s talk about that. Let`s talk about custodial rights because according to TMZ, divorce papers were filed April 13th and they include the following: there is no child under 18 years of age or otherwise entitled to support who was born or adopted of this marriage and none is expected. They took custody of the baby in January, so how is that correct?
KAPLAN: It`s correct if, in fact, Sandra had decided to go forward with the adoption as a single parent, which I suspect by then she did, so that the adoption would not be of the marriage because it`s not Jesse and Sandra, it`s just Sandra. Technically that`s correct and therefore that is not absolutely per se an inaccurate or untruthful statement.
BEHAR: She seems to be protecting him a little bit? Right Kate?
COYNE: Jesse or her baby?
BEHAR: Jesse -- Jesse -- and the baby, yes.
COYNE: Well, you know, you have to remember that she very much loves her stepchildren to this day, and he remains their father. She`s very invested in continuing to have a role in their lives. So getting off the high road and bashing him in any way wouldn`t really help anyone in this situation.
LYONS: The images of this guy now, they`re coming out of the stories that are being -- bash him as it is, and I don`t think her saying anything to the press publicly to add to that would accomplish anything. She might have her own feelings that she`s not sharing, but, you`re right, she`s very close to his children and so why do that?
BEHAR: She`s seen this picture. Have you seen this picture we`re looking at?
(CROSSTALK)
COYNE: How much stronger a reaction can you possibly have to another human being than to adopt a child with him initially, raise that child in the most intense, secretive, quiet way. I mean talk about intimacy, it was pretty much the three of them -- just Sandra, Jesse and the baby and then take the child and go.
I mean, you don`t get a stronger condemnation than that than -- then, I`m out of here and your child is now out of here and you will never have us again. I don`t think you can --
LYONS: There`s nothing else that really needs to be said. Yes, her actions speak loud enough.
BEHAR: Well, she doesn`t have to say things -- like the things I hold most dear are things that could not have happened without Jesse. That`s very kind of her to say that. She doesn`t have to.
Everybody thinks he`s a big dirt bag. Why did she have to stay with him --
LYONS: She`s a class act. She always has been --
BEHAR: Takes the high road.
LYONS: -- she always has taken the high road, she`s always been a class act. An A-list movie star in every sense of the phrase and this is another example of that.
MARK VINCENT KAPLAN, CELEBRITY FAMILY LAW EXPERT: You know, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes, Mark.
KAPLAN: Joy, I always tell clients even in high-conflict cases that start out this high conflict, the party who can take the noble high road consistently over time is going to prevail under -- no matter what states` statutes are being applied. And I think that`s what she is doing. Whether or not she has feelings that are conflicting her in that regard, when you`re talking about parenting, when you`re talking about taking the noble high road --
BEHAR: Yes.
KAPLAN: -- those are the kinds of statements who is -- of somebody who`s child-centered and who is -- she doesn`t have to say anything negative, because everyone is going to champion her quality and her class and the way she`s handling it, and there would be no reason for her to have to use a public forum --
BEHAR: Right.
KAPLAN: -- in order to gain sympathy or support for her position.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much, guys.
KAPLAN: Welcome.
BEHAR: Up next, the governor of New Mexico stops by to discuss Arizona`s immigration madness.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the father of Jesse James says his son`s Nazi obsession actually began when he was a child.
And from "Celebrity Apprentice", actress Holly Robinson Peete talks to Joy about her experience raising a son with autism.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Arizona`s new immigration bill is causing an outcry across the country, but it`s not just forces from outside the state that are upset. Three Arizona cities: Flagstaff, Phoenix and Tucson are considering filing a lawsuit to block the bill which was signed by the governor on Friday.
Joining me to discuss this issue and more is the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson. Hi, Governor, how are you? Always a pleasure.
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: I`m fine, Joy. Thank you.
BEHAR: Now, can these three cities win this fight?
RICHARDSON: Well, yes, I believe that this lawsuit is merited. I wouldn`t be surprised, Joy, if the federal government, if the Obama administration pursues it, because on the grounds that this is a federal responsibility, that this isn`t a state or local responsibility, to empower police to basically detain anybody and possibly ask for their papers.
And it`s a good case of racial profiling, so I believe any lawsuit questioning this law probably has some merit.
BEHAR: Now, I understand that you called Governor Brewer before she signed this bill. What did you say to her, and how did she respond?
RICHARDSON: Well, I said to her I thought it was important that she veto this bill; that Governor Napolitano, who is Secretary of Homeland Security, a year ago had vetoed it. That politically I felt that she was in a very tough place, because most of her Republican Party, her primary was going to be urging her to sign it. But I said, you know, governor -- I had flown the border with her the week before. And I like her, and we get along.
I said to her, look, this is going to cause you a lot of problems. It`s going to be an issue. You should veto it. And she was very sincere in accepting my arguments, but I could detect from her tone and what she was saying to me about her own politics that she was going to sign it.
BEHAR: So it`s not just -- this bill is not just being passed by her because she`s worried about the immigrants, these illegals overrunning Arizona but she`s worried about her political future? Is that what I hear you saying?
RICHARDSON: Absolutely. Yes, yes she does and John McCain, Senator McCain, who had championed pro-immigrant legislation, basically changed his position, because he, too, in Arizona has a tough senate primary. And Governor Brewer has a primary where all her opponents on the Republican side have said, you know, you`ve got to sign it and you`ve got to be tough.
But still I believe it was the wrong decision. You`re already seeing other states, Joy, sort of declare open season on immigrants.
In Alabama there`s an effort on English only. I wouldn`t be surprised if other state legislators say, look, Arizona did this. We`re going to take this issue into our own hands.
The problem is that the Congress has failed to act on a federal immigration law, and hopefully this will spur them to do it. Otherwise you`ve got to have a lot of other states take similar action.
BEHAR: You know, the governor -- the GOP rather -- leader, Eric Cantor, he`s upset about all the Nazi analogies to this situation. Do you see any analogies here?
RICHARDSON: Well, you know, it`s a -- some of the language used against the immigrants, I think, is very unfortunate. What this does, Joy, is it breeds a lot of tension, and you know, if you`re in Arizona, 30 percent of Arizona is Hispanic and they`ve been there for generations.
The problem is that what happens if an Arizonan is driving, and a police person looks -- says the person looks suspicious and goes over to that person and asks for their papers? I mean, that`s a clear case of discrimination, of racial profiling.
So yes, I fear that this atmosphere, that every time an immigration bill comes up or an immigration issue, it brings a lot of bad, bad reactions from people.
BEHAR: Well, you know, Sarah Palin was on Hannity last night, and she is basically -- listen to what she said. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENT CANDIDATE: There is no ability or opportunity in there for the racial profiling. I think it`s shameful, too, that the Obama administration has allowed to this to become more of a racial issue by perpetuating this myth that racial profiling is a part of this law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: If they`re not going to stop them based on the color of their skin, what are they`re going to stop them on? What else is there to look for? Somebody just walking the streets, anybody?
RICHARDSON: Well, you`re right. Well, you`re right, Joy. That was a very unfortunate comment by Governor Palin. Even -- even Governor Brewer said when she announced her statement, her position that, "Look, I`m going to make sure there is no racial profiling."
Well, racial profiling is inevitable. Who is going be deemed suspicious? Somebody that looks like an immigrant, like somebody that came from Mexico unfortunately; you know there are a lot of us that are Hispanic that have our papers or here legally have been working on this country. And this is the danger of this bill, it will bring clear cases of racial profiling.
Governor Palin is just playing to the politics here, and it`s unfortunate what she said. I can`t believe what she said.
BEHAR: Right. I like to call her half-governor, but we`ll be right back with more from Governor Richardson, full governor.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.
Governor, I want to show you an ad released by Tim James. You referred to him in the last segment. He`s a Republican candidate in Alabama`s governor race. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM JAMES, ALABAMA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I`m Tim James. Why do our politicians make us give driver`s license exams in 12 languages? This is Alabama. We speak English. If you want to live here, learn it. We`re only giving that test in English if I`m governor.
Maybe it`s the businessman in me, but we`ll save money, and it makes sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It`s almost like a Saturday night live skit, isn`t it? And I love the background music as if he`s in a ballroom. What an idiot.
Now, should people who don`t speak English be allowed to drive? Have you ever driven in a foreign country? I can drive in England, in France and Spain. I don`t speak any of those languages, especially English. Go ahead.
RICHARD: Well, you know Joy, this is unfortunate, because this anti- immigrant mood comes from actions like what Arizona just took. And this candidate for governor is taking advantage of it. Obviously, we need all of us to speak English, but you know, one of the main, main tenets of an immigration bill, there has to be more border enforcement, more employer verification of workers. You`re going to have to deal with the 11 million that are here.
And those that -- a legalization program needs to involve one, that these immigrants that came here illegally, one learn speak English, pass background checks, get behind the line of those that are trying to get here legally.
But you are going to deal with -- you`re going to need to deal with the 11 million that are in America today and have some form of earned legalization. Not citizenship, but make them go through a procedure involving English background checks, involving many other stipulations, being part of America that makes sense, but not very draconian measures like requiring English only when it already is the language of this country.
BEHAR: Right. But I mean wouldn`t it put more unlicensed drivers on the road? That seems to be even more dangerous than giving them driver`s licenses?
RICHARDSON: It seems to me the danger of this Arizona law is that states, maybe some border state and not mine --
BEHAR: Alabama or Arizona? Which state?
RICHARDSON: What Arizona did, I think, has spurred Alabama or this ad to come forth. And I wouldn`t be surprised if other states either on the border, Texas, others start local decisions to give police more power when this is in effect a federal responsibility.
The fault of all this, Joy, is the congress not passing a comprehensive immigration bill, you know, to give Bush credit, he tried but he couldn`t do it. Now President Obama I think has taken the right steps in saying we have to have comprehensive immigration reform which does mean more border security, more border troops, National Guard, which does mean a legalization plan where it`s earned.
They have to speak English and pass background checks, and a verification system so that those workers that are here working are working here legally.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks so much for joining me, Governor. We`ll be back in a bit.
RICHARDSON: All right, Joy. Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Sandra Bullock`s new baby may not be talking yet, but Jesse James` father certainly is. The question is why? Larry James claims Jesse always had a fascination with Nazis, even as a child. But does Larry have a fascination with publicity? Here to talk about that and more are addiction medicine specialist and host VH1 "CELEBRITY REHAB WITH DR. DREW" Dr. Drew Pinsky. Actress and author of "My Brother Charlie," Holly Robinson Peete, and comedian, Jim Norton. OK, Larry James, the father of this notorious Jesse James, he did an interview, and this is what he said, quote, "he did have a fascination with the Nazis and it started at an early age. He liked the war machine. He liked the uniforms. He liked the guns. He liked everything about them." Now what do you make of that? Anybody
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "CELEBRITY REHAB WITH DR. DREW": I mean, Joy, sometimes a cigar is just a good smoke. Let`s face it. We don`t have to make a ton out of this, but if we were too -- I`ve never seen a he specific pattern associated with that. Except to say when I`ve seen, I`ve only seen it a few times.
BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: Two things emerge. Look, kids like wars and soldiers and stuff like that.
BEHAR: Right.
DR. PINSKY: Because he likes this particular imagery, when I have seen it, two things sort of have emerged. One, the individual is typically paranoid. I don`t know Jesse, but I`ve seen that. And secondly, they may have been roughed up a bit when they were a kid. They may have been physically abused. And I don`t know anything about Jesse, I don`t know whether he was or not but that`s -- when I have seen this, that`s the pattern I see.
BEHAR: I see, what do you think about it.
HOLLY ROBINSON PEETE, ACTRESS: You really just have to be careful who you choose for your estranged father.
DR. PINSKY: That`s true.
BEHAR: Good point.
PEETE: You really do. Be careful about that, because I mean these are people that haven`t connected. He doesn`t really know him.
DR. PINSKY: Doesn`t that speak volumes about what might have happened between he and his dad? I mean that`s a pretty rough relationship to rupture for the long time.
BEHAR: Right.
DR. PINKSY: Something really nasty must have happen there.
JIM NORTON, COMEDIAN: The father sucks. Why would you sell your own kid out like that? I mean the history channel has a fascination with the Nazis. He keeps just trying to make this guy worse. You know what I mean, he cheated with a woman who had white supremacist tattoos. He was being a man and cheated. That`s it.
BEHAR: But you know what there`s a difference between fascination and an admiration.
NORTON: Sure, of course.
DR. PINSKY: They don`t say they admired it, did they?
BEHAR: Well.
DR. PINSKY: That means goofing around, taking pictures, I -- Jim, you`re absolutely right. We all -- people want to vilify Jesse James even to the point where now Sandra comes out sort of kindly toward him, people want her to go after him more aggressively. The fact is, everybody that I`ve ever met that met him, love him. They like him a lot. BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: He`s not a bad person, his disorder took him to a bad place, and believe me, he`s suffering plenty because of all of that.
BEHAR: He might be fooling around, like in the picture we keep showing his arm up like a Nazi.
DR. PINSKY: I wouldn`t advise anybody goof around like that. That`s a bad choice.
BEHAR: NO, that`s silly. I`m not sure whether we can attack him for that yet.
PEETE: Well with daddy dearest coming out talking about, he was doing the hail Hitler as a little bit -
BEHAR: Yes.
PEETE: I mean that doesn`t help. So I`m just saying it`s a sort of a 15 minutes of fame thing where you have estrange parents deciding, you know what, I can`t get the guy to take my phone calls but I can get TMZ on the phone. So I think it is important.
BEHAR: Well the father said that when Jesse was a boy, he actually met a Nazi who gave him Nazi literature. And when the dad noticed that he was looking at it too much, he took it away.
DR. PINSKY: Which is exactly the right thing to do as a parent, right?
BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: And then sort of hope it kind of goes away. Which normally it would --
BEHAR: Without a warning sign? I mean, I don`t know --
DR. PINSKY: In retrospect sure. At the time because a kid is obsessed or preoccupied with something that`s necessarily savory for him, lots of kids do that. That doesn`t mean anything particular.
NORTON: I think the father is trying not to look like a creep that he is. Because he give -- why do you give a kid Nazi paraphernalia for and then you take it when he reads it? BEHAR: Yes.
NORTON: What do you want him to do, eat it? Stupid.
BEHAR: He`s not on speaking terms with his son. He never met Sandra Bullock and in the last six years saw his son once, OK. So the father sounds like he`s trying to get attention.
DR. PINSKY: There`s something going on.
NORTON: Yes.
PEETE: How delicious is that little baby she adopted.
BEHAR: Adorable.
PEETE: I`ll take a couple more.
BEHAR: A lot of times you know, a lot of people -- adoption agencies don`t like interracial adoptions like that.
PEETE: Yes, I know.
BEHAR: Yes, I`ve heard that, you know, now in this case she`s a movie star, so I guess they`ll give her a pass? Is that - no one complains -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No, sometimes African-American orphanages don`t like the idea.
PEETE: And as an African-American mom, my only concern is the hair. I mean we have to be careful about how the hair.
BEHAR: He`s a boy.
NORTON: How the hair looks?
PEETE: It doesn`t matter - we got to be careful. Well when some of the Caucasian families adopting some of the African-American girls, they`re certain hair products --
BEHAR: They don`t know what to do with the hair.
PEETE: Yes, you got to be careful.
BEHAR: OK, here`s another topic. Leaks from Laura Bush`s new memoir include a shocking claim that the president and his staff were poisoned. Mrs. Bush says she knows it true because everyone became mysteriously sick. Well now she knows how the country felt for eight years. They all fell mysteriously ill during the G-8 summit in Germany. And Laura Bush believes that they had been poisoned. Is she paranoid? I mean basically it was a virus that turned out, you know. So what is she writing this for?
DR. PINSKY: Is she a paranoid person, I don`t know, is that a paranoid thought? Yes. But the fact is if you are sitting in the White House, I would imagine you`d have a few paranoid thoughts. Here`s the statistical reality, outbreaks of illness occur, they commonly.
BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: You don`t have to enlist the sort of explanation of some nefarious plot. A food poisoning or virus breaks out in a group of people that are spending a lot of time together, oh well. But you`re sitting in front of a bulls eye everyday of your life, you start to have paranoid thoughts, I`m sure.
PEETE: And note to the Obama`s, let`s have the secret service test the food first before they eat. It`s not a bad idea.
DR. PINSKY: Not a bad idea.
NORTON: Well typically -
BEHAR: Yes go ahead.
NORTON: An outbreak of diarrhea doesn`t constitute an assassination attempt.
BEHAR: No, it doesn`t. But she says Bush was bedridden the entire time - maybe he was napping, ever think of that?
NORTON: I always thought she was rational. Now she`s like Captain Queeg in strawberries and a key. And they tried to kill us - no they didn`t - you got sick, it happens.
BEHAR: Exactly and she puts it the book. I just think it`s crazy. The secret service investigated the possibility of poisoning, but the doctors diagnosed it and it wasn`t. So you know --
DR. PINSKY: OK, all right, Good. So you know -- what is done is done. But you know then again, you know, you`ve written, we`ve all written books, and people, the editors and the writers get in there and they want to juice up a story. It may not have been motivated by her.
BEHAR: What do you think of these wives, though? It`s like Nancy Reagan was consulting an astrologist, you know, Betty Ford and Pat Nixon, hello, we know what they did. I mean there is a little, they are a little like --
DR. PINSKY: Well we can go back to Mary Todd Lincoln. I mean her history of mental illness --
BEHAR: She was mentally ill.
DR. PINSKY: She was institutionalized by her son afterwards.
BEHAR: Yes, do you think Lincoln was gay?
DR. PINSKY: No. No. Men slept in the same bed -- I`ve read a lot about Lincoln. He wrote lengthy poetry about his women. He was actually a love addict for a couple of women.
BEHAR: He can always change from Bob to Jones.
PEETE: He liked to hang out at the theater a lot.
DR. PINSKY: Yes, that`s true.
BEHAR: Unfortunately.
NORTON: Just because you like a transgender friend does not make you gay, believe me.
BEHAR: No but the guy whose bed he shared -
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
BEHAR: What was his name, Speed -
DR. PINSKY: Yes, Joshua Speed, yes.
BEHAR: Joshua Speed was a wealthy guy, I heard.
DR. PINSKY: Eventually, not back then.
BEHAR: Not at that time.
DR. PINSKY: No, no, no.
BEHAR: I heard he had money so why didn`t he get a hotel, I mean come on. I`m just saying.
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
BEHAR: And finally, Conan O`Brien is back on the tube, but this time he`s giving an interview. Conan will be sitting down with "60 MINUTES" on Sunday, OK. So do you think he`ll be trashing Jay and NBC? Or is he going to take the high road?
NORTON: He probably signed something right? Wouldn`t he sign something, like a non disparagement clause. I mean you walk away with $30 million they probably just said, just don`t you know -
BEHAR: He`s not allowed to trash NBC. It`s part of the contract.
NORTON: Or employees, I guess, right?
BEHAR: Yes, but he can -- I wonder if that includes Jay. I mean he`s a comic. You know, he should be able to make a joke about Jay.
PEETE: He has a lot of goodwill in the bank publicly. Don`t you think so?
DR. PINSKY: We`ve met him - you`ve met him -
BEHAR: Conan, oh yes.
DR. PINSKY: He`s the nicest guy in the world.
BEHAR: They`re all nice.
DR. PINSKY: He only says nasty things when he`s going for a laugh. You might say negative things when it`s a good joke. I believe he would go after NBC if he could. He`s just not going to.
BEHAR: Well he is going to be - he would have to forfeit his $30 million package if he does that.
DR. PINSKY: He won`t do that.
PEETE: Maybe not.
NORTON: For 30 million he should get a picture of Leno tattooed on his face.
BEHAR: Exactly, do you think he`s been counting the days to get back on TV?
PEETE: Yes I think he`s dropping it a bit, I think he`s ready. Just -- I`ve been following him on twitter, which is very fun and very interesting. But I think he`s ready. I think he has got a lot to say, and I think he can sense we all want to see him back on TV.
BEHAR: Jim, if you had that 40 million, would you chomp to get back to work?
NORTON: I`d be in dead in three days, I really would -
BEHAR: What would you do with it -
NORTON: I would have fun in Brazil in some brothel with no shoes. It wouldn`t be good.
BEHAR: And what about Letterman, look at Letterman, he says he love Jay summing the whole thing up. You know, I did an interview with Jay Leno, which Letterman leaves my name out of it. But at the time -- Jay said some things, so Letterman says I love Jay summing the whole thing up. Hey, yes, we both got screwed. I said -- this is Letterman, now. I said, wait a minute, wait a minute, Jay. You both got screwed yet you are the only one that ended up with a show? How did you get screwed exactly? He got a bum wrap in the deal, he got a bum wrap, he got everything he deserved. Now you know, Letterman is a little bitter about these old days I think.
DR. PINSKY: I think he`s thinking about Johnny Carson. And those things -
PEETE: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: Absolutely. I think - but that`s, I mean Dave is a little more negative, a little more bitter, and Conan is not that guy. That`s not who he is.
BEHAR: What would you say to Letterman? You`re in the business. What would you say to Letterman about this?
DR. PINSKY: Let it go. Your resentments eat you alive. Let them go.
BEHAR: How do you tell someone, how do you work on that to let it go? What do you do? Change your thoughts?
DR. PINSKY: That`s one way of doing it. But I only do it in recovery working with sponsors and things.
BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: And sit and they do lots of ritualistic things, they talk about it, they pray about it, they do, you know, talk about personal experiences -
BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: Try to explore where that`s coming from and why they can`t let it go and eventually it goes away.
BEHAR: So maybe Letterman needs to say a few prayers.
DR. PINSKY: Yes, well, in the program that`s how they do it.
NORTON: I find the best way to hit back is to start herpes rumors on the internet.
BEHAR: OK thanks a good one.
NORTON: Kidding.
BEHAR: Thanks, everyone. Dr. Drew, Holly don`t go too far because you`ll be back with me in just a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Rocker turned reality star, Brett Michaels is facing yet another hurdle in his recovery from a massive brain hemorrhage. Michaels has been diagnosed with a side effect called hyponatremia, a lack of sodium in the body that leads to seizures. Here to fill me in on the latest is expert correspondent, Jerry Pinochle (ph). This is a pretty common side effect in hospitalized patients, right? How bad is this news?
JERRY PINOCHLE, CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually it`s not as bad as it could be, and of course, time will tell because he`s going to be recovering for weeks, perhaps months from this. But, Joy, the good news is that he remains in critical but stable condition, and in an ICU at an Arizona hospital. His spirits are very upbeat, very positive, and he is responding well to the tests and the, you know, different procedures that are being done to try and locate exactly what the cause of the bleeding of the brain is. So this condition that you mentioned, hyponatremia, it is fairly common with people with that have these kinds of strokes or brain hemorrhages so this is what the doctor is saying, basically, is this is a minor setback and that he will more than likely recovery fully from this.
BEHAR: Well that`s better news than we expected to tell you the truth. I mean there`s all sorts of rumors going around today that sounded bad, but did the doctors find anything else in their testing? What else did they find?
PINOCHLE: You know, that part of the story is being held very, very close to their vest at this point, because they are in the process as I said of conducting more tests and procedures.
BEHAR: Yes.
PINOCHLE: And what we`re told is we`re going to get more information on Monday. So that`s as far as it goes at this point.
BEHAR: So we don`t know if they`re hopeful about a full recovery or not at this point? We don`t know that yet?
PINOCHLE: Doctors have gone on the record and said that they do expect, at this point, unless something dramatic changes that they are expecting Bret Michaels to fully recover.
BEHAR: Well that`s good news, but is it likely he`ll be able to appear on the VH1 show in the summer. It is going to be later this summer, is that enough time for the recovery?
PINOCHLE: You know, as I said, doctors are saying it could take weeks perhaps months -
BEHAR: Yes.
PINOCHLE: But we don`t know the extent of his slurred speech at this point, of the dizziness that he`s been experiencing. His father -- Extra spoke it to his father just the other day, and he was very, very upbeat. In fact, Bret told own dad do not come out to Arizona and visit him until he was actually out of the hospital and at home.
BEHAR: OK.
PINOCHLE: So, you know, again, lots of prayers and lots of fingers crossed for Bret.
BEHAR: OK well we are hoping for a speedy recovery. Send him our best as usual. Thanks, Jerry.
PINOCHLE: All right Joy, thank you.
BEHAR: OK, back with me to discuss Bret Michaels` condition and a lot more is Dr. Drew Pinsky. Just one question about Bret -
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
BEHAR: Do you think what happened to him has anything to do with his lifestyle at all?
DR. PINSKY: His lifestyle didn`t help, but it`s not specific. These are random events his aneurism, subarachnoid hemorrhages. And the fact is, our initial reports were it was a massive bleed, which people never recover from. So clearly it was not a massive bleed.
BEHAR: Right.
DR. PINSKY: What they are looking for is the source, so they may have to put a clip in there and do neurosurgery or put a coil in through the internal jugular arteries, excuse me through the arteries in the neck. And as such, it is something that has to be treated and many months of recovery, hyponatremia, routine complication.
BEHAR: Routine -
DR. PINSKY: -- subarachnoid hemorrhage. It gives a sodium and water metabolism problem that will not be an issue since he`s in ICU monitoring.
BEHAR: Well that sounds pretty good --
DR. PINSKY: It`s all good. I heard he was speaking to his father over the phone and just had slurred speech.
BEHAR: That`s right.
DR. PINSKY: That is amazing. The medicine he could be making him do that.
BEHAR: You know just to jump to another topic, the kids on "THE JERSEY SHORE" those kids do a lot of hard living, do you think there`s addiction in that group?
DR. PINSKY: Yes.
BEHAR: You do?
DR. PINSKY: Well I mean they keep getting in trouble in bars, magically. Consequence --
BEHAR: Maybe it`s just for show, for TV?
DR. PINSKY: You know I talked to some of the producers of VH1. They say this is just the way these guys live. This is not so much, something that they`re not posturing for the camera.
BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: And by the way, Snooky got busted again for a fight in the bar. Is that what happen?
BEHAR: I don`t know. One of them. I`m like whatever.
DR. PINSKY: I`m with you.
BEHAR: You know I was talking to Michael Lohan this week, and he basically send the cops to Lindsay Lohan`s apartment, blah, blah, blah. And I wonder if you had any influence on that particular decision that he made, because you said that you`d go as far as to plant drugs - tell me if this is true on Lindsay and have her arrested to get her help.
DR. PINSKY: Somebody asked me what I would do as a father not as a doctor.
BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: How far, what lengths would I go to for my own daughter - I do not, not as a doctor giving advice, I don`t know him, I don`t know his daughter. What should he do, he should get a specialist, get a doctor that deals with addiction, take their direction, do an intervention, do whatever he has to do but take professional direction for sure.
BEHAR: OK, some say Michael`s action is the final nail in the coffin of her career. This is really going to kill this girl`s career now.
DR. PINSKY: Well, listen, the thing that I was trying to emphasize, and I`ll emphasize it again now, which is that addiction is a fatal disease. You`re more likely to die of severe addiction than the vast majority of cancers, even treated severe addiction has a worse prognosis than the vast majority of cancers. This is a lift-threatening condition. If something extreme isn`t done, people with addiction die.
BEHAR: Yes, right. Well you know, speaking of addiction, what are you doing -- you`re doing something for smoking now, right? That is a bad addiction.
DR. PINSKY: It`s incredible. It drives me crazy that people see my patients smoking on television. It seems I endorse it. In California I have to give them a place and time to smoke. I`m required too. But I assure you I offer every one of those kids, everyone of my patients nicotine replacement therapy or other interventions to help them stop smoking. And I`m just out on the campaign table -- trail with the people that make Nic Red gum and mini lounges which remind people that you can double your chances of stopping smoking with nicotine replacement. Forty five million smokers out there. They all want to stop.
BEHAR: Yes.
DR. PINSKY: It takes on average nine attempts to stay stop.
BEHAR: Nine.
DR. PINSKY: This is just a chance for me to say, please try again. And believe me, the fact that my patients are out there smoking does not mean I am any way would allow it if I had any control over it.
BEHAR: OK, all right, well good, I think it is very important -
DR. PINSKY: It is a big addiction, big deal -
BEHAR: But thanks very much, Dr. Drew.
DR. PINSKY: Thank you.
BEHAR: I`ll be back with Holly Robinson Peete after a very quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Holly Robinson Peete is an actress and the author along with her daughter, Ryan Elizabeth Peete of a new children`s book called "My Brother Charlie." And I`m pleased to welcome her back.
PEETE: Happy to be here. I haven`t seen you in a long time.
BEHAR: I know, I know, how are the children? Everybody kid?
PEETE: Kids are great. All thriving.
BEHAR: Now you know before we get to the book I want to ask you about "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE." everything`s in the can except the finale, right. So we know -
PEETE: Exactly.
BEHAR: Who the winner is don`t we?
PEETE: No we don`t know the winners. We know who the two finalists.
BEHAR: Oh I see, you can`t tell that right?
PEETE: And get fired by NBC, get a lawsuit? No, thank you, I`ll pass. No but we know who the two finalists are. Look, the thing I`m most concerned about at this point is Bret Michaels. I mean I talked to him after his appendectomy. Out of all the guys in the show he was the one that I vibed with the most. Who knew, other than Sinbad who I know since I was 18, Bret and I just vibe, we talked on the phone after each episode, laugh, and recap.
BEHAR: Everyone seemed to like him.
PEETE: He`s awesome.
BEHAR: He was on here and I liked him, too.
PEETE: Insanely great dad. Staying prayerful and positive.
BEHAR: Yes, now, you have four children. Your oldest son, R.J. has autism.
PEETE: That`s right.
BEHAR: That`s the book, sort of about that, right?
PEETE: It`s kind of biographical in a way. Because my daughter Ryan came to me one day and he said, school kids aren`t asking R.J. for play dates. They don`t know what autism is. Can we write a book to them what it is? And that`s exactly what we did and we wrote this book scholastic said you know what we love the idea with 1 in 91 kids being diagnosed this year. Every 20 minutes, the kid is, you know, get diagnosed with autism.
BEHAR: What`s going on?
PEETE: I don`t know what is going on. But all I know is it`s the fastest growing developmental disorder in the country.
BEHAR: I mean young girls who I talk to who are trying to get pregnant, they are afraid to get pregnant -
PEETE: Yes.
BEHAR: Because of this publicity about autism.
PEETE: Yes, it`s very, very scary out there. And ten years ago, not a long time ago, we were scared. We didn`t have any information or hope. And I actually looked for a book like "My Brother Charlie" to give to my daughter to explain what autisms was and it didn`t exist.
BEHAR: And it`s interesting they`re twins. The girl who helped you write the book is a twin and she`s fine.
PEETE: Yes she`s neurotypical and she`s fine. We call her sister Teresa. Because she`s such an amazing advocate for her brother.
BEHAR: That`s sweet.
PEETE: And that`s reason I did "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE." because I wanted to raise money for families affected by autism.
BEHAR: Which you raised $300,000 for your charity.
PEETE: I hit the jackpot.
BEHAR: The Holly/Rod Foundation.
PEETE: Yes, Holly Rod, yes we are building a compassionate care program and a center for autism in Los Angeles. And so it definitely was worth going on because I was going to pitch to dr. Drew we do another show called "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE REHAB," because, that show is stressful. Because you know, we do tasks in a day and a half. People think we do them in a week. Then you got people, you know, going after each other. My gay friends are mad at me about saying anything bad about Cyndi Lauper.
BEHAR: Really.
PEETE: Well my gay friends said, I came out to "True Colors." that was my coming out music, you can`t talk about her.
BEHAR: Oh my goodness.
PEETE: I was like you guys, relax now I`m Anita Brian all of a sudden.
BEHAR: Oh they`ll get over it.
PEETE: OK.
BEHAR: You know, just back to autism for a second.
PEETE: Yes.
BEHAR: Because I think -- is it possible that there`s 1 out of 150 and all of that really has to do with the continuum of aspergers, it`s not really full blown autism but there are a lot of kids have some kind of little disorder.
PEETE: Well the spectrum is wide, that`s for sure. At one end of the spectrum, you have children that are nonverbal, and you have children on the other end that have aspergers that are very verbal but can`t look you in the eye or can`t make a friend.
BEHAR: Yes.
PEETE: So it is a wide spectrum but I have to believe that there`s some kind of environmental predisposition, genetic predisposition -
BEHAR: Genetic - yes.
PEETE: That is making this happen. And the fact is families are really struggling. And I just want to put a light on that.
BEHAR: I think it`s a terrific book. I was reading it before.
PEETE: Thank you, it`s cute, huh in.
BEHAR: Very nice book. Thank you for joins me tonight.
PEETE: You are welcome, thanks, Joy.
BEHAR: The book is called "My Brother Charlie." Good night, everybody.
END
