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Campbell Brown
Disaster in the Gulf; Arizona's Immigration Crackdown
Aired April 29, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. Campbell Brown is off tonight. I'm John Roberts.
Breaking news tonight: a looming environmental disaster along the Gulf Coast, one that could end up being worse than the Exxon Valdez spill in 1989. Louisiana declares a state of emergency, as a 600- square-mile oil slick bears down on the coast. Over 200,000 gallons of oil a day, five times more than we first thought, is pouring out of the well that was blown open by last week's deadly oil rig explosion. So, is there anything we can do now to stop a catastrophe? And should we have seen this coming?
Lots going on tonight. So, let's get right to your cheat sheet for the day's top stories, the "Mash-Up."
Our other top domestic story tonight, the nationwide battle over immigration continues to wage. Today two lawsuits were filed in Arizona challenging that state's tough new law. And, in Chicago, protesters rallied outside Wrigley Field, where the Arizona Diamondbacks were playing the Cubs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There have been protesters around the capitol all day, as attorneys representing immigration rights groups were headed into court to try to stop the new immigration law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the first of what's likely to be a flurry of opposition lawsuits.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will be devoting our collective resources from stopping this bill from take effect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many more cities are lining up in opposition. Dozens are threatening to cut all business ties with Arizona. Already, at least eight conventions have pulled out of Phoenix in protest.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All this has pushed immigration to the front burner in Congress. A short while from now, Senate Democrats will unveil their new plan for what they call comprehensive reform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: We will have more on this a little later on in the program when I talk to former Congressman Tom Tancredo, who is for the new law, and singer Linda Ronstadt, who is a vocal opponent.
Our top international story tonight: a spate of school attacks that have left China reeling -- 28 kindergarten children were attacked today by a man wielding a knife. Just yesterday, 15 children and a teacher were wounded in another attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A man waving a knife burst into a kindergarten classroom full of 4-year-olds. He stabbed a security guard who tried to stop him and then slashed 28 children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say it's not clear what the motive was. Photos posted on Chinese Web sites show dozens of people crowded outside the school, many of them apparently frantic parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This just one day after 15 children and a teacher were stabbed in a separate school attack in China's southern Guangdong Province. And in nearby Fujian Province yesterday, a man convicted of a similar stabbing spree back in March was executed.
Eight children died when they were attacked by the man outside their school doors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Violent crime is less common in China than it is here, but knife attacks on schools there have been on the rise since 2004.
The big story in politics tonight: Florida Governor Charlie Crist makes it official. He is abandoning the Republican race to run for the Senate as an independent. Crist was the front-runner in the Senate race just a year ago, before the rise of Tea Party activists and the candidate -- their candidate of choice, Marco Rubio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHARLIE CRIST (I), FLORIDA: My decision to run for the United States Senate as a candidate without party affiliation in many ways says more about our nation and our state than it does about me.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: So now he's taking a total turn because he is way behind in the primary.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's going to be a wide-operation. I still think Marco Rubio is favored.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rubio has piled up big endorsements.
RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: We need somebody like Marco.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And polls show he's built a stunning 23- point lead over Crist in a Republican primary. But in a three-way race with the leading Democrat, Kendrick Meek, Crist and Rubio are on even ground. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I believe the Republican Party is the natural home of the free enterprise, strong national defense, limited government movement. I think that's the natural home of that movement, is the Republican Party. It's why I'm a Republican.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And now the National Republican Senatorial Committee says it wants Crist to give back its $10,000 donation.
The story everybody's buzzing about tonight, Rielle Hunter dishing the dirt to Oprah. It was one of those TV moments that you just couldn't look away from. Listen to Hunter as she tries to explain her affair with one-time presidential candidate John Edwards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Would you also agree or not that you were out of alignment, you were in contradiction, you were out of integrity with yourself?
RIELLE HUNTER, HAD AFFAIR WITH JOHN EDWARDS: No, interestingly enough. That's just what's so weird about it.
I followed my heart, and I believe it was the right thing to do, which is weird. I get how weird that is, because I didn't make a commitment to Elizabeth. I wasn't the one lying, like, to her. And I was supporting him in his process. And his intentions never wavered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: We will have more on Hunter's "Oprah" interview coming up later in the show.
And that brings us to the "Punchline" tonight. It's from Jimmy Fallon, who is a having a little bit of fun with Senator Carl Levin's tough talk to Goldman Sachs' executives the other day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON": During a Goldman Sachs hearing yesterday, Senator Carl Levin used the S-word 11 times on live television when quoting an e-mail, which begs the question, if a guy swears on C-SPAN, and there's no one watching to hear it, does he really make a sound?
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Jimmy Fallon.
And that's the "Mash-Up." And those are the stories that people are talking about tonight and will be tomorrow morning. Coming up: an emergency situation in the Gulf of Mexico tonight, the enormous oil spill hitting the shores in Louisiana. Today, the Obama administration jumped into the race to contain it. Can an environmental disaster be avoided?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Louisiana is in a state of emergency tonight. Authorities are scrambling to contain the massive oil spill. And time is running out. The leading edge of the slick has begun to hit the environmental sensitive Mississippi River Delta as we speak.
President Obama today announced that he was mobilizing the full force of the federal government to help protect the Gulf Coast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have ordered the secretaries of interior and homeland security, as well as Administrator Lisa Jackson of the Environmental Protection Agency, to visit the site on Friday to ensure that BP and the entire U.S. government is doing everything possible, not just to respond to this incident, but also to determine its cause.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: The oil rig explosion caused a spill that is now five times larger than anyone thought and we could be looking at a serious blow to the environment.
Our Brian Todd is in Robert, Louisiana, for us this evening.
And, Brian, what's the latest down there?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, as you mentioned, the federal response to this has ratcheted up. But the question is, is it going to be enough? At this hour, you just mentioned this -- the leading edges of this oil slick are entering the Mississippi Delta. The mouth of the Mississippi River is vulnerable at this hour. There are wildlife refuges in the path.
Here is a statement from an administration official today that kind of puts everything in a nutshell -- quote -- "It has become clear after several unsuccessful attempts to secure the cause of the leak that it is time for BP to supplement their current mobilization."
Translation: The feds are jumping into this more heavily than they have ever a week-and-a-half after this oil rig exploded. The Pentagon is now involved, the Departments of Homeland Security, Commerce, the Interior, EPA, all coordinating responses to this, all overseeing BP's operations and offering resources.
What could happen here? Well, the military could jump in with aerial drops of oil dispersants, oil dispersant, chemicals, things like that. You could see that coming out of planes like C-130s in the coming days. The military could tow in booms into place in some areas. They could tow skimmers into place. They could set up base operations.
Those are the kinds of things that you're going to see probably in the coming days, as the feds just ramp up their response to this. And, again, is it going to be enough?
Here's what the governor of Louisiana, Bobby Jindal, said he wants to see here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: We requested additional booms to cover all coastal areas that will be impacted by the oil spill. That would help to protect our coast, our fisheries, as the oil come closer to our coast. We also ask Secretary -- I asked Secretary Napolitano that response teams be on the ground, be ready to respond when and if the oil reaches our coast.
We're continuing to push the Coast Guard and BP for more resources, to see more boots on the ground in response to the oil reaching our coast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TODD: Now, that controlled burn operation that's been going on, that's also going to be ramped up. One BP official said they hope to kind of ratchet that up to be able to be able to burn off about 500 to 1,000 barrels of oil at a time.
But with 5,000 barrels gushing out per day, John, that may not be enough to contain any of this.
ROBERTS: Yes, it might not keep up with the flow of oil.
Brian Todd for us tonight in Robert, Louisiana -- Brian, thanks so much.
The Gulf oil spill threatens wide-scale coastal damage in four states along the Gulf Coast. The environmental and economic impact could certainly be disastrous.
With us now to talk more about this is presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, who is very familiar with that area. He's the author of "The Wilderness Warrior," the story of Teddy Roosevelt's efforts to preserve wildlands in this country. And also with us, Tom MacKenzie. He's the spokesperson for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for the Southeast Region. He's also in Robert, Louisiana, tonight.
Tom, let me begin with you, if I could.
What do you expect could be the magnitude of this disaster, the impact, as this oil floating on the surface of the water starts to come ashore?
TOM MACKENZIE, U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE: The predictions on the actual impact are really tough to assess. The main effort that we have been trying to do is get the booms out in front of key wildlife areas, to include the nesting areas at Breton National Wildlife Refuge, which has a number of brown pelicans that are on site right now literally hatching their eggs.
ROBERTS: It could take weeks to stop this leak. They have been so far unsuccessful. They may have to dig a -- drill a second well to take the pressure off of it -- 210,000 gallons a day of cruel oil, meantime, is leaking out.
And the rough calculation is, if this goes on for 50 days, a little more than a month-and-a-half, it could spill as much oil as the Exxon Valdez, which was 11 million gallons.
Could you potentially see, Tom, that this could be a disaster the scope of the Exxon Valdez in Prince William Sound in Alaska?
MACKENZIE: Again, the real challenge is predicting.
What we try to do -- and I know, after sitting in on the Coast Guard briefings -- is plan for the worst and hope for the best. So, I know every element that's involved in this is planning on worst-case, length, states involved, assets that need to be protected.
So, everybody is planning right now to get the most protection out there. Now, can you boom an entire coast? Obviously not.
ROBERTS: Right.
MACKENZIE: But -- so, you have got to prioritize your efforts. And that's what we're doing here now. And we have successfully done that now for Breton. And given some of potential weather, it can be both a positive and a negative.
ROBERTS: Right.
MACKENZIE: Because increased turbulence in the water could be a good thing to break up the oil, but the bad news about the wind, will push it closer in and on to the coast, possibly.
ROBERTS: Yes, potentially over those booms as well.
Doug Brinkley, you're in Austin, Texas, tonight, but, as we said, you've very familiar with this area. Your thoughts about the potential impact of all this oil coming ashore?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, it is a Exxon Valdez situation. In fact, it could end up being worse.
I don't know if people realize just how important this area is for commerce in the United States. So, we're looking at possibly a total disruption of our fish -- 60 percent of our fish come from this region, 67 percent of our oysters, 72 percent of shrimp.
This is the great nursery, really, for the United States, and places like Breton Island are being threatened. Now, that was a -- our second national wildlife refuge created by Theodore Roosevelt, one of the prime spot for the Audubon Society. T.R. himself went there and visited.
And there's some great anger that's starting to build at the company British Petroleum, Tony Hayward, the CEO, who's been essentially AWOL. Nobody's talking about the environmental impact right now.
And I think this story is growing, and people in Louisiana are getting very frightened indeed. Earlier on CNN, James Carville said, before it's over, British Petroleum will be Louisiana Petroleum, because the potential for class-action suits of this disaster are very real.
ROBERTS: You know, Doug, we talk about the fishery. You talk about the wetlands and the wildlife refuges that are in the area. There's the nearshore fishery, redfish, black drum, a lot of other fish, the oyster beds, the huge shrimping industry.
Saturday, this weekend, is prime harvesting season, the beginning of harvesting season for oysters. If the fishermen can't get out there and get those oysters off the bottom because there's too much oil on the surface, what's the potential economic impact of that?
BRINKLEY: Gigantic. We're looking at a doomsday scenario on that ragged boot heel of Louisiana for places like Plaquemines Parish and Saint Bernard and others.
When you had Exxon Valdez, some of that oil got under rocks. And you can go up there and still see it today. But when it gets into the wetlands, it's hard to get out. And what's angered a lot of people is Tony Hayward, the CEO of BP, said that this is like iced tea-looking compared to the darker oil spill in Alaska.
They need to have some corporate leadership right now talk about the environmental impact of it. And BP has to stop hiding and I think step to the plate.
ROBERTS: Now, I know, Tom, that you said this is all about trying to predict what's going to happen.
But the response to it at this point, the amount of technology that has been dispatched, the fact that the Navy and other aspects of the military may join the fight there, is it going to be enough to keep the majority of that oil from coming onshore?
MACKENZIE: Well, that's the million- or billion-dollar question, isn't it? And I really couldn't predict the future on that.
We do have, you know, four refuges that we're concerned with, but also the amount of wildlife that we're looking at, anything from the nesting sea turtles, which should begin their nesting season almost any time now, along with possible manatees.
Obviously, we have a lot of resources to protect. And the good thing is that we have got a lot of really highly trained professionals that are out there doing it right now.
ROBERTS: A lot of highly trained professionals who certainly have their work cut out for them.
Tom MacKenzie from U.S. Fish and Wildlife, thanks for joining us.
Doug Brinkley, as always, great to see you. Thanks for being with us.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: Coming up: the battle over Arizona's strict immigration crackdown. It's now headed to court. And protesters from all over the country want the state boycotted.
Singer Linda Ronstadt has been very vocal against the law. We're going to talk with her coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Well, the first legal challenges against Arizona's controversial new immigration law were filed today, including a suit by a Tucson police officer who says it will lead to racial profiling. The suits come on the heels of calls for an economic boycott of the state.
Major League Baseball is even being asked to move next year's All-Star Game out of Phoenix.
Joining us now to talk more about this, singer Linda Ronstadt, who has been helping to lead protests against the Arizona law, also former Colorado Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo. He's calling for similar immigration crackdown in Colorado.
Linda, let's start with you. You grew up in a Mexican-American family in Tucson, Arizona. Why was it important for you to be out there protesting this law today?
LINDA RONSTADT, SINGER: Because I feel that Governor Jan Brewer is not giving Arizona proper leadership right now. I don't think she has the experience. And I think she should be removed.
She's putting Arizona in a situation that's going to make it liable to boycotts and a lot of public criticism. And it's justified. People think -- you know, people think that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States economy. They're wrong. They pay way more into the economy than they take out in social services.
They pay sale taxes. They pay property taxes and income taxes. And they put in $7 billion a year into Social Security, which they won't draw out, they can't draw out, because they're not citizens. So, they're actually swelling the coffers for the rest of us.
ROBERTS: Right.
RONSTADT: And they're not criminals. No human being is an illegal person. They're undocumented migrants. They have been forced up here from positions of incredible poverty.
And these are people who have been able to come over, you know, overcome great obstacles. They just want a job and a decent way of life and a better life for their families.
ROBERTS: Tom Tancredo...
RONSTADT: So, they're not committing crimes.
ROBERTS: Right.
Tom Tancredo, what do you say to that argument?
TOM TANCREDO (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Well, it's full of holes, first of all.
She talks about -- Linda talks about the governor of the state acting almost unilaterally, it sounded like, she's doing this thing to Arizona, and it's going to be so bad for Arizona and Arizonans, when 70 percent of the people in Arizona support the law. It's not the governor who's done this. It's the people of the state of Arizona, because, of course, they are dealing with an issue that the federal government has refused to deal with for so long.
And when you're on the front line of the problem that has been created by the federal government with regard to illegal immigration, yes, you will take measures that sometimes seem extreme.
But this isn't. This is simply upholding the law. There is nothing wrong with that. It's not un-American. It's not anti- Hispanic. It is simply a matter of upholding the law that has been violated to the point where now this state has to step in.
ROBERTS: Tom, let me just jump in here with some aspects of the actual law and talk about the criticism of it. Critics are worried that this new law gives police the right to go hunting -- or license at least to go hunting for illegal immigrants.
Here's what it says. It says -- quote -- "It requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact if reasonable suspicious exists that the person is..."
RONSTADT: Yes, what does reasonable suspension mean?
ROBERTS: That -- well, that was -- that's the question. What is reasonable suspicion, Tom?
RONSTADT: That's -- the sheriff of Pima County here in Tucson is asking the question. What does that mean?
TANCREDO: I will be happy to answer, if anybody wants to.
ROBERTS: Go ahead.
TANCREDO: OK. Number one, it means, when you come into contact with someone who is here illegally, and a legitimate contact, legitimate contact with a police officer, and you cannot show your identification, you cannot see -- show anything that proves that you are a legal resident, that's the beginning.
But, you know, you only left -- you left out an important part of the bill, which is right here. And, if you want to read it, if you read the whole bill, it's important for you to point out things like this.
(CROSSTALK)
TANCREDO: "Stipulates that the law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions," goes on, "stipulates that these provisions are to be implemented consistent with immigration law, protecting the civil rights of all persons, respecting the privileges and immunities of U.S. citizenship."
(CROSSTALK)
TANCREDO: Why didn't you read that?
ROBERTS: Actually, I was just about to get to that, Tom.
TANCREDO: OK.
ROBERTS: That was my next graphic that I was going to put up.
TANCREDO: All right.
ROBERTS: But do you trust, Linda Ronstadt, that there are adequate protections there? And here's where it says -- it says "The attorney general or county attorney shall not investigate complaints that are based solely on race, color, or national origin."
Do you think that those are enough safeguards?
TANCREDO: Well, of course...
(CROSSTALK)
RONSTADT: There are not enough safeguards.
(CROSSTALK)
TANCREDO: I'm sorry. Who are you asking?
(CROSSTALK)
RONSTADT: I think he asked me.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: Asking Linda, yes. TANCREDO: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
RONSTADT: OK. Yes, be sorry and butt out.
ROBERTS: Go ahead.
RONSTADT: I come from a law enforcement family here in Tucson. My brother was chief of police for years.
TANCREDO: What was that?
RONSTADT: I do not speak for him.
My brother, Peter Ronstadt, was chief of police here in Tucson for years.
Now, here's something that I learned from him. In a democracy, the police do not protect us by brute force. They need the trust, the cooperation and the respect of the community. The Pima County sheriff, Clarence Dupnik, has said that this law is just racist and stupid. He has said it is disgusting and unnecessary.
He is refusing to try to implement it. What does a reasonable suspicion mean, he wants to know. Does it mean it's somebody's accent? They're not arresting people that speak with a Canadian accent. Does it mean it's the kind of shoes you wear?
If I went to Finland and I thought that the police were going to pull me over and hassle me and to see if I have my passport when I just went out in the morning to get some breakfast, I wouldn't want to go to that country. It's not the American way.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: One quick response, if we could, Tom.
TANCREDO: Nobody is going to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: Does this law guarantee that people won't play fast and loose with the regulations?
TANCREDO: You say these sort of things, and then as if they're absolutely sure that this is what's going to occur.
There's another thing about our democracy that's very important that maybe somebody should have taught you. And that's the Constitution.
RONSTADT: What's going to keep it from occurring?
TANCREDO: That's -- hey, listen just a second. It's called the Constitution. (CROSSTALK)
RONSTADT: This is unconstitutional. This law is unconstitutional.
(CROSSTALK)
TANCREDO: Well, then -- then, don't worry about it.
(CROSSTALK)
TANCREDO: If it's unconstitutional, it will be declared unconstitutional. You don't have to worry about it.
RONSTADT: It will be.
TANCREDO: Leave that to the court.
ROBERTS: All right. Well, we...
RONSTADT: I will worry about it. I'm a citizen of Arizona.
(CROSSTALK)
TANCREDO: Worry about it all you want to, but it's up to the court, not you, to determine it.
ROBERTS: All right. Well, it is in the courts, and we will see where it goes.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: Linda Ronstadt, Tom Tancredo, spirited debate tonight. Thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it.
TANCREDO: You bet.
RONSTADT: Si, se puede.
ROBERTS: All right.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: There you are.
Governor Charlie Crist declares his independence, shaking up the Senate race in Florida, but can he win as a third-party candidate? Candy Crowley tops our all-star political panel coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Florida Governor Charlie Crist abandoned his campaign for the Republican Senate nomination today, announcing that he will run in November as an independent.
And after months of campaigning for his party's nod, Crist, the onetime favorite, found his lead eaten up by Tea Party darling Marco Rubio. Both candidates spoke late this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHARLIE CRIST (I), FLORIDA: I know that is uncharted territory. I am aware of that. And I am aware that, after this speech ends, I don't have either party helping me. But I need you. I need you, the people, more than ever.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: When I came into this race 12 months ago, I ran because I believed I was the only candidate in this race that would stand up to what was coming out of Washington and offer a clear alternative. And nothing that has happened today has changed that. I remain the only candidate in this race that will stand up to this agenda and offer a clear alternative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Candy Crowley, our chief political correspondent and host of CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" is in St. Petersburg, Florida, tonight. She joins us along now with Mark Halperin, senior political analyst and editor-at-large for "Time" magazine, and Mark McKinnon, Republican strategist and contributor to "The Daily Beast."
Let's start with you, Candy. You had a chance to talk with Governor Crist earlier today. Was this just simply a matter of his political survival?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he says not. He says it's all about the people. He is taking a very populous tone. If you heard in that clip that you played, he very much has to now use the free media. I asked him what about your fund-raising. He said, oh, they're all staying with me. What about your staff? Well, they're all staying with me.
Now, this is contrary to what sources have told us, but nonetheless, he's full steam ahead. One of the things he said and what he's trying to do is position himself as, look, it's you and me against Washington. Those -- all those parties do is bicker and it's the people against Washington. And that's the tact he's going to take. And they looked at the polling. They think he has a chance with that. It's very early, I must say. But right now, it's just the tiniest bit of lead over the other two people in the race.
ROBERTS: Right. Right.
CROWLEY: So this is going to be a very populous us against them sort of race.
ROBERTS: Well, not all of his backers are sticking with him because the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee asked for its $10,000 back. But, Mark McKinnon, is this a sign --
MARK MCKINNON, FMR. MEDIA ADVISOR To PRES. G.W. BUSH: Yes.
ROBERTS: Is this a sign at least in the state of Florida, moderates are not welcome anymore in the Republican Party?
MCKINNON: Well, it's not just Florida. All over the country really. It's tough to be in the middle anymore in either party. But ironically in recent polling, people are -- there's a lot more independents in the country these days than there are Democrats or Republicans. So, you know, clearly this was an opportunistic move but it's also clear to anybody who's been watching Florida politics that Crist was never really quite comfortable with the direction the party was going. He's always been a moderate and progressive Republican. And it's getting tougher and tougher these days to be a moderate in the Republican Party. The tea party is pulling things to the right with people like Marco Rubio. So I think that he -- listen, Florida is a very diverse state. And I think that he actually has a real shot.
ROBERTS: All right. Well, we'll see where it goes. It's still a number of months and, of course, the general election campaign begins today.
Mark Halperin, Marco Rubio was the upstart outsider. Now, he's the establishment guy. Can he survive and live up to the scrutiny?
MARK HALPERIN, SR. POLITICAL ANALYST, "TIME" MAG.: Well, we'll see. He's going to get a lot of scrutiny. I agree with Mark McKinnon. I think probably (INAUDIBLE) a little bit in thinking that Governor Crist has a chance.
First of all, he's been elected statewide overwhelmingly. Neither of the other two candidates, Kendrick Meek, the Democrat, or Marco Rubio, has been elected statewide. He does have a lot of people who voted for him before. His popularity is way down, but he used to be stratospheric. He's one of the most popular governors in the country. It's hard to do in a big diverse state like that. So he's got a tough border here, but he can win. And this -- there's a lot of national implications here. But just the pure political theater of what's going to go on in this three-way race is going to be pretty captivating.
ROBERTS: Candy Crowley, when you look at the numbers in the Quinnipiac poll, you've got Crist at 32 percent in the general election, Marco Rubio at 30 percent, Kendrick Meek somewhere back at about 24 percent, but he hasn't put the same amount of money or emphasis into the race as these other two have. Is there concern by the Republican Party that Crist versus Rubio could split the Republican vote and Kendrick Meek comes right up the middle?
CROWLEY: That's certainly what the Democrats are hoping. And, look, I mean, here's the thing, you've got Republicans, you've got Democrats, and then you've got 23 percent of the voters who are independent. So as usual, that's where all the concentration is going to be. And what Crist has done that he thinks will distinguish himself is, they didn't think this was just about the tea party. They think that, in fact, people might have looked at Crist and said, oh, my goodness this is the same old thing. So he is going to be the new guy, despite his 15 years in Tallahassee, it's going to be "I'm not the incumbent. All these other people are old hat." ROBERTS: All right. Candy Crowley for us, along with Mark McKinnon and Mark Halperin, thanks so much. Really appreciate it.
Stay with us for more with our political panel and revealing new details from John Edwards' mistress. Rielle Hunter appeared on "Oprah" today, dropping one bombshell after another about her long- running affair with the former presidential candidate. Are they still seeing each other? Her story coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Back now with Candy and Mark Halperin on today's blockbuster "Oprah" interview. You probably know Rielle Hunter as John Edwards' mistress and co-star in their alleged sex tape. But today in her first television interview since Edwards admitted he was the father of her baby, Hunter revealed new details, insisting that she did not destroy the former senator's marriage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST: Home wrecker?
RIELLE HUNTER, JOHN EDWARDS' FORMER MISTRESS: Absolutely not. It's not my experience that a third party can -- wrecks a home. I believe the problems exist before a third party comes into the picture.
WINFREY: So you don't think you wrecked his home?
HUNTER: I do not believe I wrecked his home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: It's just one of many jaw-dropping assertions in an interview that left little to the imagination.
We're back with Mark and Candy Crowley. And, Mark, let's start with you because you've talked a lot about this in your fabulous book "Game Change." What you heard her say with Oprah, does it reflect or differ with what you found out?
HALPERIN: A lot of the facts are the same. You know, in America and in our modern media culture you don't really exist until you've done a television interview. And for some, you don't exist if you start with Oprah. So this was an interview with not a lot of new information but for people who've never met her or seen her talk on videos, it's a pretty compelling one hour across the way from Oprah.
ROBERTS: So she did talk about John Edwards being conflicted. He was running for the presidency in 2008. Let's listen to what she said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST: Did he talk to you about the fact that he was going to announce -- RIELLE HUNTER, JOHN EDWARDS' FORMER MISTRESS: Yes, he was in extreme conflict about it.
WINFREY: Explain to me what that means.
HUNTER: He didn't know if it was the right thing to do because he had personal problems and an inner conflict about having all these personal problems that could happen at any moment and wanting -- an inner pull to wanting to serve. Plus he was, I believe, addicted to campaigning and that was going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Addicted to campaigning. Candy Crowley, take us back to that time. Did you get any sense that there was any kind of conflict with John Edwards about running for the presidency?
CROWLEY: I didn't. I mean, you know if you would have seen that conflict about running, it would have been picked up, because you have to really want it to go ahead and campaign. I mean, this has sort of turned into this kind of pathetic tragic side show here. And bottom line is that John Edwards could have gotten out when they announced that Elizabeth Edwards' disease, cancer, had come back, but he didn't. They went full steam ahead. So listen, there's three versions to this story and we heard one of them.
ROBERTS: You know, Mark, she also talked about this sex tape which is -- is part of a lawsuit and is locked up in a courtroom. She says that she tried to take possession of it, tried to destroy it, that she even cut it with scissors. Let's listen to what she said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIELLE HUNTER, JOHN EDWARDS' FORMER MISTRESS: We said, well, that was not a great idea. Let's do something to prevent anyone from seeing it because we don't want anyone to see our private business. So I took an action to destroy the tape and kept it in my personal belongings so no one would get a hold of the tape.
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST: Did you just -- did you think you had destroyed the tape?
HUNTER: I don't think I had destroyed it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: You know, Mark, the first question that comes to mind is why would you ever make a tape in the first place? And if you wanted to destroy it why wouldn't you built a fire and throw it in?
HALPERIN: To the extent we want to obsess over every detail of her relationship with John Edwards, this was some of the new information. This version had not been told before to my knowledge, but it does, I think, bear some scrutiny for the reasons he saved. It seems a strange way to handle something. If you felt it was embarrassing, you really want to destroy the tape. I don't care what format it is, it's possible to do.
ROBERTS: You know, Candy, he's got to testify in court case next month against the former aide who initially was the one who said that Rielle Hunter's baby was his. Could he ever come back from this? You know, America's the land of second chances. Eliot Spitzer is trying to come back from what he did. But is John Edwards' three-day-old fish or does he still have some sort of viability?
CROWLEY: I'm going to go with the former. Listen, I just -- I've seen a lot of people come back and so I know never to say "never" in politics. But this is ongoing and there is a good deal of sympathy for Elizabeth Edwards who continues, you know, cannot get rid of her cancer, she continues to live with cancer. I just -- I can't imagine him wanting to or being able to have a comeback.
ROBERTS: Mark, what do you think? Are they still seeing each other?
HALPERIN: She wouldn't answer that question. And you know, Candy said she never says "never." So generally my rule, except I break it for John Edwards. Never. He's not coming back. Whether they're together or not, he's not coming back to public life.
ROBERTS: Mark Halperin, Candy Crowley, thanks so much.
And coming up, we continue to track the breaking news coming out of Louisiana tonight. That devastating oil spill about to slam into the coast. The latest developments just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Coming up, a teacher whose students say there was never a boring day in her classroom. What's her secret? We're going to tell you. But first, Tom foreman now, with us for tonight's Tom (ph) load, "Download."
We could call it a Tom load, but how about "The Download"?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we can.
ROBERTS: All right.
FOREMAN: Thanks, John.
In Louisiana, time is running out. An environmental and economic disaster is looming after last week's oil rig blast. The Feds say the leading edge of a massive oil spill reached the Mississippi River Delta within hours. The spill is gushing five times faster than first thought. It's drifting towards some of the country's most fertile seafood ground.
In Belgium, a vote to ban burqas worn by Muslim women. The Lower House of Parliament voted for the ban. The proposed law would also ban anything that obscures the face of a person in public. It now goes to the Belgium Senate, where it may become a law by years end. This comes after the French government supported a similar ruling. President Obama today remembered Dorothy Height as the godmother of civil rights at the National Cathedral here in D.C. This morning, he delivered the eulogy for the civil rights icon calling her, quote, "a humble and tireless force for equality and justice." Height led the National Council of Negro Women for decades, battling for civil rights. She died last week at the age of 98.
And check this out. A driver in downtown Tulsa must have wanted to get out of the bank building in a hurry. But he was seven stories up. His Mercedes slammed through a parking garage wall sending debris crashing down on cars below. The driver says the gas pedal stuck. No one was hurt -- John.
ROBERTS: Wow. You get that close to death, you have to think that somebody's looking out for you, I would think so.
FOREMAN: Or threatening you, either way.
ROBERTS: No one wanted to. Thanks.
Up next, Mary Matalin and Roland Martin, an "M2" face-off over the day's hottest stories. And still ahead, words of wisdom from the teacher of the year. A lesson that you won't want to miss coming up.
But right now, Larry King with a quick preview of what's ahead in about 15 minutes' time. How you doing, Larry?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": John, fine, John. Tonight, we're going to do the arguments for and against that Arizona immigration law. Emotions running high on both sides. We have a heck of a debate. The former attorney general of the United States Alberto Gonzales and the new Mexico Governor Bill Richardson are here to tell us what they think about its constitutionality and its enforceability. And will other states be passing similar laws? Some answers. Plus the latest on that massive oil spill next, John.
ROBERTS: All right, looking forward to it. Larry King coming up at the top of the hour. Larry, thanks so much.
And "M2" is next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Time for our "M2" face-off. Our Mary Matalin and Roland Martin take on the most talkable stories of the day. What have you got for us tonight, guys?
MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, before we do anything, John, congratulations. We love when men play up, shoot up, shoot for the stars. Congratulations on your engagement. We're also very happy for you. It's a good thing.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Great move on the golf course, that's what I like.
MATALIN: Get on the golf course. Always a sports angle. I don't know about that.
MARTIN: I love golf, come on.
MATALIN: All right, politics is my sport. And this is getting to be a good sport.
Yes, again, the government has defined a new right. Let's hear from the secretary of Transportation to our own Jeanne Meserve about the new airport rules.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY LAHOOD, US TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: We're fed up with it. And we weren't going to wait for some law to be passed because we know sometimes that takes a long time. We have the jurisdiction over the airlines. We felt it was incumbent upon us to pay attention to passengers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATALIN: The reason that these passengers are trapped on the planes is because of other rules and regulations that are in place that disallow the pilots to let them get off. This problem --
MARTIN: Well --
MATALIN: You know, wait, before -- let's define the problem, which the government can't do anything about right now. It's antiquated infrastructure for air travel. And it is the hand of God. It's weather, come on.
MARTIN: Right, right. But, again, what we saw the last two or three years, we saw a number of examples where you had passengers who were on planes three, four, five hours, unable to return to the gate, restrooms not working, no food. So what this simply says is, is that if -- first of all, we're not saying 45 minutes. They're still giving them, you know, two, three hours. I mean, I'm sorry, I don't want to be stuck and held on a plane for more than three hours.
MATALIN: I could not -- and I have been stuck hostage with pooping babies, believe me, it's not fun. I'm not saying it's not the problem, but the problem is not the result -- is the result of too much regulation. You think these pilots and stewardesses want to keep those people on the plane? No.
MARTIN: No, hey.
MATALIN: Another government intrusion.
MARTIN: Well, if I'm stuck, I definitely certainly appreciate them finding, for not going back to the gate.
All right. Now, Wrigley Field, Chicago, historic landmark, if you will. Cubs they suck, but, oh, well.
Well, the people who are protesting, the people who are protesting immigration in Arizona are going to boycott at Wrigley Field when the Arizona Diamondbacks come to Wrigley Field to play the Cubs.
Hey, I have no problem with this because it puts attention on the issue and the right to protest is in the U.S. Constitution. Go right ahead.
MATALIN: So here's what these people are protesting. Clearly, like 99.9 percent of this country, including all the media and the president of the United States, they have not read the law. The only way to be against this legislation is to be for illegal aliens and for drug cartel terrorists. They are against legal immigrants. That's what they're protesting against, illegal immigrants.
MARTIN: No, I think -- but a lot of people who are protesting also are against simply pulling over anybody based upon this look of suspicion. And you don't really know what that means. But the bottom line is this here, I'm simply saying it. If I can sit here and say tea party folks, go out and do your thing, they were protesting, no tax cuts in the stimulus bill even though there were tax cuts. So, again, it's the right to protest. And so I believe it's a great venue to do it because it puts attention on the issue.
MATALIN: OK, I just want to make this point before we move on. The difference between the tea party and these idiots is that the tea party people actually knew what they were talking about.
MARTIN: No, they didn't.
MATALIN: Do you know what they're talking about?
MARTIN: No, they didn't.
MATALIN: These protesters have not read the law because you cannot pull anybody over without --
MARTIN: Mary, you can still protest --
MATALIN: You can protest but they don't know what they're talking about.
MARTIN: Mary, tea party people said there were no tax cuts in the stimulus bill and there were. So they were in that one as well.
Now, somebody who understood and had a life of protest, who was on the front lines, Dr. Dorothy Height. She -- her funeral was today in Washington, D.C. She died last week. 98 years old. Hear what President Obama had to say about Dr. Height.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Dr. Height went about her work quietly. Without fanfare. Without self-promotion. She never cared about who got the credit. She didn't need to see her picture in the papers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN: Mary, she was a civil rights activist, but also a major feminist who fought for women of all colors.
MATALIN: I love -- and I don't often say this, you know, but I love what the president described her as, the Queen Esther of this Moses generation. And what a generation of civil rights workers it was. I wonder what she would think and her colleagues would think of what civil rights movement has become today.
MARTIN: Well, first of all, she was also supposed to go to the White House to meet with the president a few weeks ago with Marc Morial, Reverend Al Sharpton and the Ben Jealous of the NAACP. And so she was at every single major movement, but she even up to her death, she was on the front lines for civil rights in this country. So I think she would say, hey, there's still more work to be done, because she was right there towards the end, Mary.
MATALIN: Well, lots of dignity in that woman. Not so much in today's movement.
MARTIN: Well, we appreciate all her work. Dr. Dorothy Height, 98 years old.
John, back to you, sir.
ROBERTS: All right. Roland Martin, Mary Matalin, thanks so much and thank you very much for your kind words, too.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes time. But coming up, amid all of the education horror stories that we're hearing these days, a reason to be hopeful.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Well, finally tonight, a lot of good things come out of Iowa, including the 2010 National Teacher of the Year. She's a high school English teacher.
President Obama presented Sarah Brown Wessling with the award in the Rose Garden this morning. And she told us how she inspires some of her students in her own words.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congratulations, Sarah.
SARAH BROWN WESSLING, NATIONAL TEACHER OF THE YEAR: My name is Sarah Brown Wessling. And I'm a high school English teacher. When I look at each student, it's important to look at them individually.
Then when it comes to expenses, this is where you really have to do some thinking. OK.
And I want to be able to find what motivates that student. I want to be able to find their gift or their talent.
You might choose to research some existing organizations --
It is sometimes tough for teachers to remember what it is that they so love about the classroom. But I really believe that when we focus our energies on our students, we look to our colleagues, that we do have an opportunity to re-energize ourselves.
To assume that any one entity is the panacea for reforming education is probably a little short-sighted. And so we really need to look at our policy. But we also need to look at how our communities can become involved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sarah gave me the push I needed to become a teacher. She was able to pull something out of even the most reluctant learners.
WESSLING: It's their voices that we need to listen to. And it's their voices that I carry with me, in my mind, wherever I go.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Sarah Wessling, the 2010 teacher of the year.
The president quoted a student in one of Sarah's classes as saying that there was no discussion fruitless, no assignment pointless and not one day was boring. Now that does sound like a good teacher.
And that's all for now. Thanks very much for joining us. John Roberts in for Campbell Brown.
Make sure to join me bright and early at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning for "AMERICAN MORNING." Among our guests, Senator Bill Nelson of Florida who called on President Obama to block new offshore oil drilling in the wake of that massive oil spill.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
