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American Morning

Oil Spill Worse than Feared; Reining in Wall Street; Crist Running as an Independent; Florida Governor Running as an Independent; What the CEOs Make; Happy Doctors and Satisfied Patients: Health Care Model of the Future; Debating Wall Street Reform; Immigrants on Reasonable Suspicion; Mine Workers Trapped in Kentucky

Aired April 29, 2010 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Glad you're with us on this Thursday, April 29th. I'm Kiran Chetry.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, I'm John Roberts. Thanks so much for being with us. Here are the big stories we'll be telling you about coming up in the next 15 minutes.

The oil spill off of Louisiana coast is much worse than originally feared, five times worse. In fact, more than 200,000 gallons of crude now gushing into the Gulf of Mexico each and every day. The president has offered to send in the military, but it may be too late. The potentially devastating slick could rush ashore by tomorrow.

CHETRY: The bill to try to rein (ph) in Wall Street clears a major hurdle just ahead of a fourth vote to begin debate, Republicans dropped their objection. Why did the GOP back down? And could this be a rare sign of the two parties working together. We're live in Washington with the latest this morning.

ROBERTS: Picture this, a medical clinic where patients are happy and healthy, and doctors aren't stressed out that no one's going broke. Yes, it does exist. An actual example of how health care in this country can work for everyone. Elizabeth Cohen on a bold experiment that's actually panning out just ahead.

CHETRY: And of course, the AMFix blog is up and running. We'd love for you to join the live conversation right now at the CNN.com/AMFix. And we'll be reading your comments throughout the morning.

ROBERTS: First, though, this morning the situation off of the coast Louisiana just went from bad to worse. The Coast Guard now confirming more than 200,000 gallons of crude oil are spilling into the Gulf of Mexico each day. That's five times worse than anyone initially thought.

CHETRY: Yes, and to add to that, a new leak has been discovered at the site of last week's platform explosion. An enormous oil slick is now measuring around 600 miles around and it could reach shore by tomorrow. ROBERTS: And of course, it's threatening hundreds of thousands of miles of sensitive coastline, a robust fishery, and despite a successful controlled burn last night on part of that slick, officials are now bracing for the worst.

CHETRY: Petty Officer Erik Swanson of the U.S. Coast Guard is on the phone right now with us from Robert, Louisiana.

And thanks for being with us this morning, Petty Officer. Is there anything that can be done at this point to stop a full-fledged environmental disaster?

ERIK SWANSON, PETTY OFFICER, U.S. COAST GUARD: Well, we are ramping up as much as we can to prepare for this. We're in constant contact with the coastal states to respond according to their area contingency plan.

We're doing as much as we can by air and by water to fight this thing offshore, and -- including trying to secure the source.

ROBERTS: Petty Officer, when you say you're ramping up, what do you mean by that? What's ramping up?

SWANSON: Well, we're preparing as many resources as possible, and we're considering many different options, such as drilling relief wells as well possibly bringing in the Department of Defense.

CHETRY: And what would they do if they were brought in to help you out?

SWANSON: Well, they could be leveraged to actually drop or spray more disbursements on the oil as well as do other things. But they're still currently developing that idea.

ROBERTS: Petty Officer, you mentioned this idea of a relief well being drilled. So far there hasn't been any success using those remote submersibles and shutting off the flow of oil.

One idea is to drill a relief well that takes some of the pressure off and get the oil flowing in a different direction.

Any idea how long that would take and what might happen in the ensuing time?

SWANSON: Well, yes. That could take a while. So that's why we're -- that is another priority option. Right now we're just trying to get as many resources on land since this site boomed off, the personnel ready to go in case -- when this thing hits land.

CHETRY: And also, as I understand it, there's this 500-foot boom that you can use to corral several thousand gallons of at least the thickest oil on the surface and then tow it to a remote area for a burn.

How much does that help mitigate the environmental disaster? Is that something that could work for the other large amounts of oil that are out there?

SWANSON: Well, it's -- it's certainly an option. And we utilized it yesterday. We were able to do a test burn which was successful. And we're going to see if we can do that today pending good weather.

ROBERTS: All right, well, good luck to you. Petty Officer Erik Swanson from the Coast Guard, thanks for being with us. And of course, we'll be watching all of this throughout all day today just to see if you can somehow mitigate the effects of this massive oil spill and keep it away from that sensitive coastline.

Finally, after Democrats failed three times to being debated on Wall Street reform, Republicans have caved in. They ended their blockade yesterday to bring legislation to the floor.

And while the two sides have agreed on some issues there are still plenty of sticking points.

Our Brianna Keilar live in Washington for us this morning.

OK, so they've agreed to go ahead with debate, Brianna. What happens next?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, next, a lot of debate. This could take quite a lot of time, John. We're talking weeks maybe.

And what you have is both Democrats and Republicans saying that this is a priority for them to regulate Wall Street and before finally agreeing to bring this bill to the floor last night, they were able to find agreement in some areas.

Let's take a look at that. One area has to do with that $50 billion fund that would have been paid for -- would have been paid for -- by a tax on Wall Street firms, would have been used to cover the costs of winding down a failing company. It is gone. It is out.

Now there's also agreement on how to wind down one of these big firms in the case that it does fail.

Still some major outstanding issues, though. Democrats and Republicans, they disagree on how to regulate derivatives which of course are those complex financial products that were at the center of the financial meltdown and are currently traded very much in the dark.

There's also this idea of the consumer protection agency that's created by this bill. And Republicans say that its authority will be too far reaching and that it can be interpreted so that it impact smaller companies as well as large firms.

So a whole lot to work out on the floor, as we're going to see this going on for some time. And we're going to see Democrats and Republicans really going at it over these issues -- John.

ROBERTS: When you say this is going on for some time, are we talking days? Are we talking a couple of weeks? When might we see a vote on this bill?

KEILAR: We're talking weeks because Republicans as well as Democrats may be trying to change this bill, proposing amendments. We have been told by Democratic leaders, by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's office that they're going to have what's called an open amendment process and that means you could be seeing a whole bunch of proposed changes and that takes a lot of time -- John.

ROBERTS: Yes. Brianna Keilar for us this morning in Washington. Brianna, thank you.

CHETRY: New this morning, another Toyota recall. Fifty thousand 2003 Sequoia SUVs have a problem with their stability control systems. The vehicle can hesitate or even slow down at low speeds. If you own one, you should be getting a recall letter from Toyota next month.

ROBERTS: Felony charges filed against 27-year-old Derek Stansberry, a former Air Force serviceman for allegedly making a bomb threat on board a transatlantic flight the other day.

Investigator say Stansberry told air marshals he had explosive on the Paris to Atlanta flight. The plane was diverted and landed in Bangor, Maine. No explosives were found. A judge ordered competency tests for Stansberry who reported had taken Ambien and Valium before the incident.

CHETRY: And starting today airlines face deep fine if your flight sits stranded on the tarmac for more than three hours. Once the cabin door closes the clock starts ticking. After two hours, passengers must be offered food, water, functioning restrooms and medical attention if needed.

But officials representing the airlines are already admitting that to avoid fines, they're going to just start cancelling flights.

ROBERTS: Well, it's an organization rooted in the outdoors, teaching young men survival skills in the unforgiving wilderness. Well, now a Boy Scout can get a notch in his belt or a loop, actually, for pawning nubes on Xbox.

Did I say that right?

(LAUGHTER)

ROBERTS: That's right. Boy Scouts of America now offers awards for video games. But it's not all fun and games. Steps to success include choosing an age-appropriate game with your parents. Now wait, it gets less fun. Playing that game with family members in a family tournament. And this may be the hardest step. Teaching an adult how to play the video game.

CHETRY: Wow.

(LAUGHTER)

CHETRY: Times have changed. ROBERTS: Remember the days when, you know, you bought grandma a DVD player?

CHETRY: That's right, or when you were in the Boy Scouts you actually had to light a fire with your flint and your sticks. Life's changed.

ROBERTS: Definitely has changed.

CHETRY: Now you just play -- what does it call again?

ROBERTS: I got --

(LAUGHTER)

CHETRY: What's it called? Pawning nubes?

ROBERTS: Pawning nubes on Xbox?

CHETRY: I know. He's laughing. Ron's laughing at us. He must know what it is. What --

ROBERTS: Take me back to the old days of the flint and the sticks.

CHETRY: Yes.

ROBERTS: I don't get this video game.

CHETRY: I mean -- or a frogger at this point. I mean, come on. What's pawning nubes?

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I have no idea what pawning nubes is, but I'm just trying to picture what that merit badge would look on the old Boy Scouts sack.

CHETRY: It's a 3D interactive badge. These nubes to play video games.

MARCIANO: Got to change with times, right?

(WEATHER REPORT)

ROBERTS: All right, Rob, thanks so much. We'll talk about pawning nubes.

It's shaping up to be one of the most fascinating political races ever. A governor running for Senate sees that he cannot win as a Republican but can as an independent. Today Charlie Crist is expected to bolt and get pounded by the GOP. What it could mean for the Republicans, win or lose, in Florida.

CHETRY: At 7:25, something you'll have to see to believe. Healthy patients, happy doctors, and a clinic's health care that works. ROBERTS: And at 7:40 the first lawsuit over a law that makes it illegal to be here illegally. Critics call it downright un-American. We're going to take a look at both sides during a ride-along with officers on our side of the border.

It's 10 minutes now after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Welcome back. Well, after days of speculation, the best political team on television learning the GOP is losing one of its biggest names. Florida governor Charlie Crist, he's going to run for the Senate this fall but he is not going to be doing it as a Republican.

ROBERTS: Instead today he is expected to announce that he's going to be running as an independent.

And for more, let's bring in our own independent analyst, CNN contributor and senior political columnist for "The Daily Beast," ladies and gentlemen, John Avlon.

JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning.

ROBERTS: So it was -- it's increasingly looking like Governor Crist could not have won the Republican primary but when it comes to a general election in Florida, even running as an independent, what are his chances?

AVLON: Well, they're better than winning the close partisan primary, that's for sure. You know right now, independents in Florida make up around 20 percent of the electorate. And -- so while he's got that to build off of, he really needs to appeal to those centrist Republicans, independents and centrist Democrats to pull this off.

There's no question strategically his chances are much better doing this as an independent in the general election, than as a centrist trying to win a close partisan Republican primary.

CHETRY: Well, because a year ago, probably not many people even knew who the heck Marco Rubio was. How did things change so drastically for this guy and for Charlie Crist?

AVLON: Marco Rubio really has pulled off an incredible upset here. He's done it by preaching a message of fiscal conservatism, riding off a lot of the momentum going on in the country right now about angry and unprecedented Washington spending.

He's picked up enthusiasm from a lot of the tea party movement but he's not -- it's a mistake to call him simply a tea party candidate. And in fact, his relentless focus on fiscal issues, really downplaying his social conservatism, could really appeal to many independent voters this fall. So it's by no means a sure thing that Charlie Crist's candidacy is going to necessarily draw all that support. ROBERTS: So what happened in the -- inside the Florida Republican Party? Because a head-to-head matchup of Charlie Crist against Kendrick Meek, who is the Democratic challenger, and Marco Rubio versus Kendrick Meek, Charlie Crist was clearly in a better position to win that general election.

So why would Republicans throw him overboard in favor of somebody who doesn't have as great a chance in the general?

AVLON: Well, two things. One, we've seen an overall trend this year to rhino hunting in the Republican Party, an attempt to push centrists out. Republicans in name only. The second thing that's going on is really a focus on fiscal conservatism and strong stance.

And Charlie Crist is seen as a centrist who might be more opportunistic than principled when it comes to certain policy decisions like his decision to veto -- teacher merit pay bill, got big accolades from the teachers union but a lot of education reformers on the conservative outside of the aisle were understandably angry.

So those two dynamics have put Crist really at a disadvantage, especially within that Republican that primary.

As it stands, this looks like a Senate race that's going to be won by someone who wins 35 percent of the votes. So it's really going to be a very interesting test case. National growth of independent voters that Crist is trying to build off of, but a very negative environment within Florida itself.

CHETRY: Right. And so, there you go. And you need that strong structure in place, right, to run a successful political campaign? Is he losing out money wise? Is he losing out in terms of his whole organization?

AVLON: He's certainly, you know, he's going outside the Republican organization. He's going to have a lot of enemies. People who might have been slightly muted in their opposition in the past are going to be full-throated right now.

But there is a sense of signs changing in American politics, that the parties aren't the primary purpose of our elections. And there are going to be a lot of people who are cheering than sort of throwing off the ideological straitjacket that's imposed by the two parties right now. So it may be -- you know, today is the best day of Charlie Crist's independent campaign. He's got an uphill road but in this declaring of independence, he's going to be getting a lot of attention from national media as well as another look from Florida voters.

ROBERTS: All right. We'll be watching this race closely. Will there be a third independent in the U.S. Senate? Love it.

All right. Thanks, John. Appreciate it.

Coming up next on the Most News in the Morning, it may be the list that some CEOs do not want to be on this year. "Forbes" out with its annual executive compensation list. Christine Romans "Minding Your Business" coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Nineteen past the hour. Time for "Minding Your Business" and Christine Romans is here. On any other year, maybe you'd be happy to be on the list -- this particular list. But, however, this year, you may have a bit of a PR problem.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: This is -- OK, "Forbes" has a list of billionaires, has a list of the most powerful women. It also has the list of what your boss makes, what your boss brings home. And your boss is bringing home a little less money this year.

Get out your tissues. This is how much. For three years in a row now, CEOs are taking home less pay. Any surprise, I guess. This is the first time within three years in a row of less money in 20 years. Well, right, because their companies are making less money and the economy is not really recovering very strongly yet.

Compensation down 30 percent last year. Total earnings, $4 billion. They brought home $8 million apiece. So who are the best- paid CEOs?

ROBERTS: Gosh, it's awfully hard to live off of that, isn't it?

ROMANS: I know. You know, $4 million is not going to go that far as it used to?

ROBERTS: How do you put food on the table?

ROMANS: I know. How do you --

CHETRY: These are the Fortune 500 CEOs?

ROMANS: Yes, how do you put gas in the jet?

ROBERTS: I have no idea.

ROMANS: How do you put the fuel in the boat?

ROBERTS: (INAUDIBLE) environment they're loving.

ROMANS: $4 million, gosh. OK.

CHETRY: $8 billion.

ROMANS: Well, no, the -- or $8 million is what they're living on apiece. But right, $4 billion overall.

OK. So let's talk about the best paid CEOs? Number one, Lawrence Culp Jr. His company is called Danaher. This is a big manufacturing company. A very successful manufacturing company. They make everything from microscopes to industrial tools. His total compensation, $141 million.

ROBERTS: Oh.

ROMANS: Larry Ellison, number two on this list. Larry Ellison is always on one of the top of this list. He's the guy with -- you know that big boat he has? He has such a big yacht that it can't even park. I don't know if you park a yacht. But you know, he came and parked it in the normal places where yachts go. He has to be with the big, like, oil tankers. Anyway, he makes $130 million over the past five years. Larry Ellison has made $1 billion in pay and exercise options.

Aubrey McClendon, Chesapeake Energy, $114. Ray Irani, Occidental Petroleum, $103 million. You can go to -- you can go to forbes.com and see the whole list for yourself if you want to see all of them and just fantasize about how much you have to work 24 hours a day for 30 years to get one of these jobs, too. That's the other point.

ROBERTS: Which brings us around to your "Romans' Numeral." And I can imagine that it's probably got something to do with that?

ROMANS: Yes, it has to do with the rest of us little people. $39,208.

ROBERTS: That's the average take home pay in America.

ROMANS: That's the average median earnings in America per person. Not for household but per working person, about 39 grand. You compare that with $8 million. And you can see John just did the math for me. It's about 200 and four times less than what your company's boss is getting.

CHETRY: There you go. It's good to be rich.

ROBERTS: I'm sure --

ROMANS: I know it is.

ROBERTS: I'm sure the boss is working 204 times as hard, though.

ROMANS: I'm sure. I'm sure.

CHETRY: There you go.

ROBERTS: Thanks, Christine.

CHETRY: Christine, thanks.

Well, coming up on the Most News in the Morning, a lot of Americans would agree that health care in many instances in our country is broken. But we'll show you one clinic trying a bold experiment that's working and could be a model for the future.

Twenty-two minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Twenty-four minutes pat the hour. Your top stories just a couple of minutes away. First, though, an "A.M. Original," something you'll see only on AMERICAN MORNING.

ROBERTS: Picture this, a medical facility where doctors are not overworked, waiting rooms are not jammed to capacity and patients are thrilled with the quality of care that they receive.

CHETRY: Sounds like a health care utopia. Well, it's an experiment that's leaving some health care critics speechless in Seattle. Elizabeth Cohen joins us now with the final installment of her series "Prescription for Waste."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. ERIC SEAVER: Good morning.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Dr. Seaver. Elizabeth.

SEAVER: Hi, Elizabeth. Nice to meet you.

COHEN: Nice to meet you. This is not how most doctors come to work, right? This is kind of unusual.

SEAVER: This is kind of nice. It is.

COHEN: It's kind of nice. Well, this is not your usual practice. So can you come on in and show me what you do?

SEAVER: Very good.

COHEN: All right. Let's go.

SEAVER: Let's go see our medical home.

COHEN: So the first thing you do every morning is sit down and answer patient e-mails.

SEAVER: I go through my inbox, answer e-mails. Patients love it. Patients love it. It's the best thing in the world.

COHEN: Now, do you go see your patients in your biking clothes?

SEAVER: No, I get dressed.

COHEN: OK. So, Doctor, the next part of your day?

SEAVER: See our first patient.

COHEN: OK. I'll see you when you get out.

SEAVER: OK. Sounds good.

Mr. Banks, good morning.

MR. BANKS, PATIENT: Good morning.

COHEN: He's still in there with his patient. It's been almost half an hour.

So, Mr. Banks, what do you think? A 30-minute appointment, is that nice?

BANKS: A 30-minute appointment is great.

COHEN: So how many patients do you see a day in a normal day?

SEAVER: A normal day, around 12 face-to-face.

COHEN: And -- so 12 patients face-to-face. In other places where you worked, how many patients have you had to cram in a day?

SEAVER: Usually, 20 to 24.

COHEN: Wow. And what kind of a difference does that make?

SEAVER: Oh, it's a night and day difference. I'm able to get to know my patients. I'm able to provide more personal care for patients and able to answer patient's questions and help them engage in their health care.

COHEN: Thanks, Mr. Banks. Bye-bye. Good luck.

So Mr. Banks is going to go get his x-rays, and while he's getting his x-rays, can you show me his medical record?

SEAVER: Of course. We can pull up his chart.

COHEN: So you have 13 years with the data on Mr. Banks in here. Can you pull up, like let's say, I want to see his cholesterol from about three years ago?

SEAVER: Three years ago. It's right here.

COHEN: There it is. You can just click and it's there. Do you think you can do that out of this?

SEAVER: In a couple of days.

COHEN: That is my file for my obstetrician. I had four children. How does my doctor find anything in there?

SEAVER: I have no idea.

COHEN: Now I have to say having spent the morning with you, electronic medical records, seeing fewer patients in a day, this all sounds expensive?

SEAVER: But I think your office found that it pays for itself. And patients and staff and physicians all think it's a win-win situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHETRY: It's amazing, Elizabeth, and, you know, people have really, really identified with the series that you've done and just shown how much better it could be. And it was really illustrated when you showed your huge file versus the electronic records. And a lot of people are saying how is this possible.

COHEN: Right. Well, the reason why group health can operate the way that it does, they save money, they make patients happy is because they do certain things very efficiently. They have electronic medical records. All of their doctors are in one building. You're not running around the city seeing various doctors. The x-ray machines are right there, all of that.

The other reason why they're able to operate so efficiently, is that with longer appointments, you know, 30 minutes per patient, you can do some real preventive care. And you can talk to people about their diet and their lifestyle and all of those things. And preventive care on the front end means that patients don't get sick later on in life.

ROBERTS: Is there one particular thing, Elizabeth, that is making this clinic so successful?

COHEN: You know, I haven't spent the day there and talking to doctors and patients. I would have to say that the one thing appears to be these 30-minute appointments. I mean, that is a huge difference. In most cases in this country, it's more like 15 or 18 minutes per patients. So the difference between seeing 12 patients a day and 24 patients a day, I mean, you can just imagine the difference that makes and the quality of the time that you have with your doctor.

CHETRY: And so then, you know the question is, can they do this elsewhere? Can this be a model where it can be done in all places around the country?

COHEN: Right. That's what a lot of people are asking. That question got asked a lot during the health care reform debate. And the answer is that it would take a lot of reorganization. I mean, again, all of these folks are in one building. So when Dr. Seaver wanted to send Mr. Banks to get his x-rays, he just went down the hall. And Dr. Seaver had those x-rays 10 minutes later.

I know when I've gone to get x-rays, it's days. And they get lost between the Radiology Department and the folks at the doctor's office across town. I mean, it would take some major reorganization to make this is a model that would work everywhere.

CHETRY: All right. I hope it's the case someday though. Thanks, Elizabeth.

COHEN: Thanks.

CHETRY: Thirty minutes past the hour right now. Time for a look at the top stories.

And a third oil leak has been discovered in the Gulf of Mexico. The Coast Guard now confirming more than 200,000 gallons of crude are gushing into the ocean every day, five times more than they originally feared would spill there. Some officials are now predicting this massive slick off of the Louisiana coast could hit land by tomorrow.

ROBERTS: Later today, Florida's Republican Governor Charlie Crist is expected to announce that he'll run for the Senate as an independent. Polls show Crist trailing his challenger Marco Rubio in the state's Republican primary. And RNC chairman Michael Steele admits with Crist running as independent Republicans could lose the seat this fall.

CHETRY: And the first lawsuit challenging Arizona's new immigration laws is expected to be filed today in Phoenix by the National Coalition of Latino clergy. The law empowers the state's police to question anyone who raises a "reasonable suspicion" that they're in the country illegally. The Justice Department is considering filing suit to block it. But Sheriff Joe Arpaio from Maricopa County, Arizona says all of the controversy is not going to stop him from doing what he's always done.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's nothing to be worried about. Nothing to be worried about. I'm an equal opportunity guy. I lock everybody up that violates the law. I don't care what color the skin is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: President Obama says Congress may not have the appetite to deal with immigration reform right now and he's not prepared to force the debate anytime soon.

ROBERTS: Wall Street reform now heading for a debate by the full Senate. Yesterday, Republicans ended three days of unanimous opposition to debating the bill. President Obama praised the breakthrough saying that he hopes to sign the bill very soon.

CHETRY: Republicans saying there are still major points that need to be worked out. And joining us live from Washington to talk more about this now is Texas Republican senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. Thanks for being with us this morning. Great to talk to you, senator.

SEN. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: Thank you, Kiran.

CHETRY: You had three votes, you had three defeats and now Republicans cleared the way for this to go out to the floor for debate. Is there anything that changed in the substance of the bill that cleared the way to move forward?

HUTCHISON: Well, yes, the biggest part of the bill that we were concerned about was the too big to fail language. We want to stop too big to fail, meaning we don't want any more taxpayer bailouts. And the language was not clear and we needed to close some loopholes and we did get the assurance that those loopholes would be closed.

So now, we're going to try to work on other parts of the bill that think still need a lot of the work to protect our community banks, but we can go forward. ROBERTS: Senator, can we get you to go into a little bit of detail here. Because we've had over the last couple of weeks. Democrats saying, no this ends too big to fail. And Republicans say no, it doesn't end too big to fail. What were the loopholes that you're concerned about. What was the agreement last night that does ensure that this ends too big to fail?

HUTCHISON: Well, for one thing, there was a $50 billion fund that was going to indicate that that would be the fallback. But then, as we know, these financial institutions were much more in jeopardy than $50 billion. So that that indicated that the taxpayers were going to have to come in and make up the rest. We stopped that. And we got that assurance.

In addition, we want these firms to be going into bankruptcy and liquidated. If they are in a failing position, not allowed to continue to go forward, again, with the indication that there would be a taxpayer fallback. These are things that had to be tightened up. And we did get the assurance that that would happen.

Now, going forward, though, we still have a really bifurcated system with the $50 billion and above banks being under the supervision of the fed. And everybody else not. We don't like that either. And I'm hoping that we can have a level playing field with our community banks.

CHETRY: Is what you're talk about right now, the Consumer Protection Agency? Because Republicans have an issue with that, fighting this element of the bill, arguing that some small business centers could be adversely affected. Explain that?

HUTCHISON: We're very concerned about this new consumer agency that really is going to add a lot of regulatory burden to the community banks that already are regulated. We don't need another agency with another big government bureaucracy for the community banks. We do need that for the non-bank institutions. That's where the real problem is.

That's where all of these derivatives and the reverse swaps and all of the fancy stuff that caused this whole meltdown happened. That's where we need to focus. Not overburdening our community banks which then over burdens our small businesses. But instead going for the non-bank institutions that caused this problem. But that is another area that we must address in this bill.

ROBERTS: Senator, let me come back if I could to this $50 billion resolution fund. We heard from Senator Richard Shelby that the Democrats likely will drop that. That was a fund that was going to be paid for by taxing financial institutions to unwind them, should one get into trouble become too big to fail. But with that set aside, if a financial institution gets in trouble who pays for the bailout?

HUTCHISON: Well, they need to go into liquidation. They need -- we cannot have taxpayers funding these bailouts because that indicate that it's a spigot that doesn't get turned off. CHETRY: But this wasn't taxpayers. I mean, I understand that there's a lot of back and forth about this $50 billion but it would have been the banks paying into it, correct?

HUTCHISON: Yes. And that $50 billion would have been the banks. But the $50 billion was a drop in the bucket compared to the financial crisis that we saw. As you know, it was $350 billion and then another $350 billion that was allocated for the bailout last year. And that can't happen again.

That caused a spiral that is part of the problem that we now have with this rising debt in our country, that is going to have another major impact on our economy, adverse.

ROBERTS: Right. But if you get rid of that funding and you say well, a firm that was failing would have to go into liquidation. But can you see that there might be a possibility where there is a firm similar to AIG that can't go into liquidation because of all the holdings and the impact of that, would happen and it would leave the door open still to a taxpayer-funded bailout?

HUTCHISON: Well, as long as you have that opening, you are going to have risk that is going to be driven by thinking that you're going to have this backup. You've got to stop the ability for any big financial institution. To think that the taxpayers will fund the risks, so go ahead and have that reverse swap. Or that derivative. Or say, in some cases, where we're seeing with Goldman Sachs, they were running these derivatives where they were selling on one side and buying on the other, with their clients.

And that's not what is going to provide the steady hand at the wheel that we need in our economy and the transparency. We need transparency. So having the $50 billion fund that would be the cushion indicates that if that runs out, then the taxpayers are there. Also, not allowing any financial institution under $50 billion to be supervised by the fed, creates an unlevel playing field because the over $50 billion are going to have better interest rates, better customer competence, and that's not fair either. So we need to fix both of those parts of the bill.

CHETRY: I want to ask you on a different topic. The issue of immigration. Arizona, of course, has been the center of nationwide controversy over its new law, requiring police to question people that they suspect maybe in the country illegally. Now, right now, there's a Texas lawmaker that's considering the similar measure in your home state of Texas. Would you support that type of legislation?

HUTCHISON: Well, I think that what the Arizona law is doing is saying the federal government's not doing its job. And therefore, we are going to step in. In many instances in Texas, we are having to beef up the border -- the border area security. We're having to pay for extra judges and extra judiciary, it's not fair. It's not a fair burden on these border states to have to deal with issues that the federal government should do. That's why we're calling on President Obama to secure our border.

CHETRY: But do you think --

(CROSSTALK)

HUTCHISON: It's violence now. It's not just illegal immigration, it's violence. It's drug cartels that are coming across.

CHETRY: Right.

HUTCHISON: And affecting America and American citizens. And that's the frustration that is in the border states. How we deal with it has to be very even-handed and balanced but we must secure our borders from the federal government.

CHETRY: But would you support a law like this in your state in Texas, the one that is in Arizona now?

HUTCHISON: Well, I don't know what exactly is in the Arizona law. But I know we have the capability for the police department and the sheriff departments to voluntarily be able to apprehend illegal immigrants and turn them over to the proper federal authorities. But they need help from the federal government to do its job so that there will not have to be this state and local expense. That's really not fair.

CHETRY: All right. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

HUTCHISON: Thank you.

ROBERTS: In the topic of illegal immigration, on patrol with officers in Arizona, chasing suspects who may be in the country illegally. The real-life impact of immigrant and drug smuggling activity in the state of Arizona. Stay with us. 40 minutes after the hour.

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ROBERTS: Welcome back to the most news in the morning. President Obama says Arizona's controversial new immigration law comes with great risk. The measure gives police the power to stop anyone who raises a reasonable suspicion. The president says we need to slow down and get immigration reform right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I understand people's frustrations about the border. You've got hundreds of thousands of people coming in, not playing by the rules, that's a problem. What I think is a mistake is when we start having local law enforcement officials in power, to stop people, on the suspicion that they may be undocumented workers. Because, now, that carries a great amount of risk that core values that we all care about are breached.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CHETRY: Those are the words at the core of the immigration controversy, reasonable suspicion. A lot of people are asking how do you define that? And how far can police officers actually go to act on it

Casey Wian is in Arizona to find out.

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CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, Kiran, we spent most of the day on patrol with one of the people who will be charged with enforcing Arizona's tough new law, targeting illegal immigrants, much of what the law will require he's already doing.

(voice-over): Sheriff's deputy Mark Miller approaches a pickup abandoned near a canal county road.

DEP. MARK MILLER, PINAL COUNTY SHERIFF: This would be a typical vehicle. Stolen truck, 4 by 4, heavy-duty.

WIAN: It's clearly been used by illegal immigrants, smugglers, backpacks, flashlights, food.

MILLER: I've seen upwards of 30 to 40 people in a vehicle this size.

WIAN: The bed is rigged so dozens can hold on for a wild ride. We take one as well, joining a pursuit of two vehicles spotted entering a highway from a desert road frequented by smugglers. A clue that makes the deputies suspicious. A dark pickup closely matches one description we followed.

MILLER: This vehicle is OK. I've actually come in contact with them before.

WIAN: The cloud of dust in the desert turns out to be a tractor.

As the sun sets on Pinal County, which has become a gateway to Phoenix for smugglers, deputies have made several busts. But for Miller, no such luck. A pickup with no license plate light is cleared, another, driving without lights, also checks out.

But, twice a day on average, Pinal County sheriff's deputies are involved in high-speed pursuits with smugglers more than 100 miles North of the border, and they rely on reasonable suspicion to determine who they stop. The same legal standard opponents of Arizona's new law cracking down on illegal immigrants say could lead to racial profiling, a charge that infuriates Miller's boss.

SHERIFF PAUL BABEU, PINAL COUNTY: This whole issue got turned now onto law enforcement where it's already a very difficult job, very dangerous. Arizona is -- is always one of the top states in America with assaults against police officers and officer-involved shootings.

And -- and now, that -- it's put on us. It's presumed that we're racially profiling, and that's the last thing that our deputies, our officers here in Arizona would do.

WIAN: Instead, he says it's actions and circumstances, like this one we encounter later, that raised suspicion.

MILLER (voice-over): One of our deputies observed a vehicle that was speeding in this residential area. The deputy observed that there were numerous subjects inside that small sedan, at which point the driver fled on foot.

We're able to apprehend what looks to be nine or 10 illegal immigrants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN SPANISH).

MILLER (on camera): They were packed inside the vehicle, two in the front seat, four in the back seat, and then three in the trunk.

This is pretty indicative of what we see on a day-to-day basis in regards to human smuggling.

WIAN: The Border Patrol picks up the suspects.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: In a little more than half a day and in just one of Pinal County's three sectors, sheriff deputies have so far apprehended more than 50 suspected illegal immigrants and seized more than 2,000 pounds of marijuana -- John, Kiran.

ROBERTS: Casey Wian for us this morning. Casey, thanks so much.

And tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE" more of the battle on the border. Find out why opponents of Arizona's immigration law are so fired up. That's 9:00 Eastern, tonight, here on CNN.

CHETRY: And thunderstorms with hail, high winds, tornadoes possible in the Plains. Rob Marciano following the latest on the weather for us. He'll also give us an update on how some of the currents could affect the oil spill in the attempt -- attempted clean up in the Gulf of Louisiana (ph).

Forty-seven minutes past the hour.

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CHETRY: A beautiful shot today of Charlotte, North Carolina, where right now it's partly cloudy, 43 degrees. But a little later it's going to be sunny and 75. Perfect weather for Charlotte.

ROBERTS: You could call that Good Charlotte this morning.

Rob Marciano tracking the weather across the country for us today. So, we're beautiful on the East Coast, it looks like, for the next couple of days, but not so beautiful everywhere, Rob?

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: No, but, you know, it was really chilly and windy yesterday across much of the northeast, all the way up and down the East Coast, and today it's going to be in most cases 10 to 15 degrees warmer. Up there in Charlotte, I think the Quail -- at Quail Hollow, they're playing a PGA Tour event this weekend, and both Mickelson and Tiger will be partaking.

Warm and breezy, yes, you bet. Return flow run this high is going to do a couple of things. It's going to warm things up, thankfully, but it's going to affect the oil spill. We'll get to that in a second.

It's also going to feed into this storm, a very powerful storm that's been creating heavy snow in the mountains of California and the Colorado Rockies, and windy conditions, dangerous winds in some cases. So the threat for severe weather is going to be on the docket today across parts of the Central Plains. And the winds could whip up -- we've got critical fire danger across parts of New Mexico as this guy begins to traverse across over to the east.

So winds across the northeast, not quite as bad as yesterday but there'll probably be a few days, Chicago, Minneapolis and Denver as well. Notice, not a whole lot of storminess at the major metropolitan airports, Minneapolis trying to get into some rain, Denver trying to get into a rain/snow mix but going to have a little success doing that today.

A huge success doing snow yesterday across Northern New England. Jeffersonville, Vermont, the totals are in now, over two feet of snow. My goodness. And heavy, wet snow. This stuff is just hard to the shovel, for sure, and even some parts of New Hampshire, including Mount Washington, getting almost two feet.

Eighty-six today in Dallas, certainly warmer. Warmer in Atlanta with a high near 80, and 68 degrees expected in New York City.

All right, high pressure that's going to block most things and going to warm things up across the East Coast today is going to start to bring in more of an east and southerly wind. Over the next couple of days, that will strengthen and freshen and the waves and the wind will bring this oil spill closer to shore, if not onshore, sometime over the weekend.

Talk more about that at the top of the hour. John and Kiran.

CHETRY: All right. Sounds good, Rob. Thanks so much.

Well, this morning's top stories just minutes away, including the threat of environmental disaster, 600 miles of toxic sludge now floating closer and closer to land and the oil pool keeps getting bigger.

We're live in Louisiana where the military may be called in to help.

ROBERTS: At 10 minutes after the hour, Crist crossing Florida's Republican governor, now running for Senate as an Independent. How the shift affects his chances and soon to be former party. CHETRY: Also at 40 minutes past the hour, shrinking a city. Detroit is considering downsizing to survive, literally hitting rewind, demolishing blocks of abandoned homes and bringing back farms. Is it progress or the polar opposite?

Those stories and much more at top of the hour.

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ROBERTS: Breaking news to tell you this morning out of Kentucky where there is word that two miners are trapped and have been trapped since about 10:00 last night. It's at the Dotiki Coal Mine in Hopkins County, Kentucky.

Officials tell local television stations there that a portion of the roof of the mine fell down, collapsed and -- and trapped these two miners. So far, efforts to contact them have been unsuccessful.

The Mine Safety and Health Administration is on the scene, along with rescue workers who are trying to get to those miners. They are trapped in the -- the western section of Kentucky in Hopkins County, at the Dotiki Mine.

We'll keep following the story for you, give you updates as we get them this morning.

CHETRY: Meanwhile, we're three minutes to the top of the hour. We'll have your top stories coming up in just a moment.

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