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Campbell Brown
New Arrests Made in Times Square Bomb Plot; Should Women Run Wall Street?
Aired May 13, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening, everybody. Campbell Brown is off tonight. I'm John Roberts.
We have got new developments, brand-new developments in the Times Square terror investigation. Three people are in custody tonight after FBI raids across the Northeast, another one in Pakistan now. Investigators are following the money, a trail that they believe could lead from Midtown Manhattan all the way to Pakistan. So, are cash couriers, hawalas, the key to unraveling this plot?
Another story that we have been following, the uproar at a California high school when students got in trouble for wearing American flag clothing on Cinco de Mayo. It started there, but it's grown into a much bigger and heated debate about free speech, patriotism, and what the flag means in America today.
Also ahead, a very provocative question: Should women be running Wall Street? The too-big-too-fail firms were all run, and some might say run into the ground, by men. And here's the interesting thing. It's women who are now in charge of cleaning up the economic mess on Wall Street, chairing the FDIC, the SEC, and overseeing the TARP fund. Does Wall Street need to trade testosterone for estrogen?
And, later on, we have got an incredible story of courage and new beginnings for you.
But we begin tonight with the national story that we have been following for more than a week: the Cinco de Mayo flag uproar. It all started when a handful of teenagers at a California high school were sent home for wearing American flag clothing on a holiday that celebrates Mexican heritage.
And CNN's Dan Simon was there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW DARIANO, WORE AMERICAN FLAG: They told us basically we either take it off or they're going to -- or we get suspended. They threatened us with suspension. Join so we all decided that we were just going to leave school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a lot of Mexican friends. I don't dislike Mexicans, but I think we should be able to wear an American flag whenever we want.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And so a controversy was born.
Live Oak High School in Morgan Hill, California, is 40 percent Hispanic. The following day 100 students, most if not all Hispanic skipped school and marched to City Hall saying they had been disrespected by their fellow students.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Dan Simon joins me live now.
And, Dan, this has very quickly gone from California to become a national conversation. What's the latest from where you are?
SIMON: Well, John, I think it's fair to say this has become a public relations disaster from the Morgan Hill Unified School District. Let me tell you what I mean.
I was at a school board meeting a few nights ago. It was a packed room. And pretty much everybody who went to the microphone blasted the school for the way it handled this situation. I want to play for everyone now a sample of what was said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK ZAPPA, PARENT: What happened and what was conducted by the principal and his assistant is unconscionable and will not be smoothed over by, it was just a misunderstanding, or it was a safety thing. I'm sorry, who was in endangered, the five boys wearing the America flag? I want to see the principal and the vice principal fired.
You will face legal action. Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: Well, the school district said it was a mistake, they should not have told those boys to remove their patriotic clothing or flip their shirts inside out.
Meanwhile, we don't know if any disciplinary action is going to be taken. The matter is still under review.
But, John, a wrinkle in all this today, CNN today got a statement from the school superintendent, who said that, on May 4, the day before this happened, on Cinco de Mayo, an order went out to all of the students at that school, telling them that nobody -- nobody, nobody should wear any flags, no American flags, no Mexican flags. In this situation, it appears that the boys either ignored that order or simply didn't know about it.
In any case, the superintendent was unambiguous saying what happened was a mistake, it shouldn't have been handled in that fashion -- John.
ROBERTS: And we will be talking in just a couple of moments about that request that went out from the school the day before Cinco de Mayo.
Dan Simon for us tonight -- Dan, thanks so much.
You know, the flare-up in Northern California just the latest example of how the American flag has sparked passions all this week.
Let's take a look at some of the other ways that it has. Danny Glover here, actor and political analyst, was booed over the weekend after failing to put his hand over his heart when an American flag was presented at a college commencement ceremony. He was the commencement speaker. Glover said he meant no disrespect.
And, by the end of the commencement address, he actually had the folks in the crowd giving him a standing ovation.
Another one here, we learned that Sarah Palin will invoke old glory in her book that's coming out this November, the title, "Family, Faith" and, of course, "Flag." It's described as a celebration of American virtues and strengths.
And, finally, one more to tell you about. Isn't that a beautiful American flag? That's a painting of an American flag, way to cash in on the stars and stripes. On Tuesday, a nearly 50-year-old painting by Jasper Johns titled simply "Flag" Sold for $28.6 million at auction. That set an auction record for the artist.
But let's right now get to the heart of the matter on this latest flag flap.
Ruben Navarrette is a CNN.com contributor, columnist for "The San Diego Union-Tribune." Kris Kobach helped draft the new Arizona immigration law and is now paid to train law enforcement there in enforcing it. He is also running for secretary of state in Kansas.
Ruben Navarrette, let's start with you. I read your column that you wrote on all of this. You say that you were prepared to cut these students a break. You thought that the principal had acted incorrectly. But since then, you have actually changed your mind. You have gone around 180 degrees. Why?
RUBEN NAVARRETTE JR., EDITORIAL WRITER AND BOARD MEMBER, "THE SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE": Absolutely, John. Really, until the 11th hour before I wrote this column, I was convinced that the school had overreacted and the students were the victims that they were being portrayed to be. And I was all set to defend their right to free speech.
But then I read an item that was similar to the item that you just talked about, which is the Associated Press actually was one of the first groups to report that the students had been warned beforehand not to wear or wave any flag on clothing or on bandanas or whatever.
So, then it really struck me that what this was really about was defiance. This was about a bunch of bratty kids defying the school authorities, not just them, but others who also wore flags apparently. And this was no coincidence. These five kids, John, didn't just always get the spirit -- all of a sudden, they spontaneously got the spirit to be patriotic all at once.
That would be a heck of a coincidence. This was a conspiracy to go and stick their thumb in the eye of both the administration and the students. They wanted a reaction. They did it to be provocative and they got a reaction, so it all worked out.
ROBERTS: Well, let's bring Kris in here.
Kris, are these students patriots or brats?
KRIS KOBACH, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI: Well, you can call it defiance if you want. But there were some American patriots back in 1775, 1776 who were rather defiant toward British authorities.
And you have to remember something about the First Amendment rights here. Think of the most on-point Supreme Court case that we have. And that's the case of Tinker v. Des Moines back in 1969. Some high school students wore black armbands to symbolize their defiant position that they thought the U.S. should not be involved in the Vietnam War.
Lots of political speech is defiant. The fact that it's defiant doesn't mean that you don't have First Amendment protection.
ROBERTS: Well, are you drawing a moral equivalence between these kids wearing an American flag on Cinco de Mayo and what happened in 1776?
KOBACH: Well, I think the better equivalent is what happened in 1968, '69, when the kids in that high school in Des Moines said, we have a political position, and we are expressing it symbolically by what we wear.
NAVARRETTE: John, Kris is only telling part of the story, though.
The other part of the Tinker decision is, that was again in 1969. Since then, all through the 1980s, you had, in the Bethel case, in the Hazelwood, you had the Supreme Court chipping away at that and basically giving more authority to the school system and to the school administrators.
And I find it curious that conservatives, having cheered on that trend all those years, now have done a 180, to use your phrase. And now, all of a sudden, the school administrator is a Latino. The kids who are being oppressed are these white kids, and they are -- they have flipped over. And now they have changed their entire position.
I'm consistent. They're not. The idea that conservatives are suddenly now cheering on the ACLU is ludicrous. The fact is, they have to own up to the fact that the Supreme Court has pretty consistently in the last 20 years chipped away at some of those Tinker protections. ROBERTS: Gentlemen, I want to take a quick break here. Got a lot more to talk about, including when it is and is not appropriate to display the American flag on an article of clothing. Also want to get your take on the state of Arizona banning ethnic studies, that other big controversy of the week. We're going to pick that up right after the break.
Don't go away. We will be right back, more provocative conversation. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: We're back now with Ruben Navarrette and Kris Kobach talking about the newest controversy involving the American flag, a battle that's dividing a high school and a community itself, kids wearing American flag T-shirts and other articles of clothing on Cinco de Mayo, and told by the principal, either turn the T-shirts inside- out or go home.
Kris, how far does the First Amendment go at a high school?
KOBACH: Well, the Tinker case, the Supreme Court precedent that we were talking about in the last segment, does say that students don't shed their First Amendment rights when they enter the schoolhouse gate.
Now, there are some -- obviously, some exceptions. They can't have obscene clothing. They can't be disruptive. They can't be chanting during class to disrupt the educational process. But the notion that wearing an American flag disrupts the educational process is a bit of a stretch.
ROBERTS: Well, does disruption have to be overt, Ruben Navarrette, or can it be subtle?
NAVARRETTE: It can be subtle, but I don't think there was anything subtle about this.
This was Cinco de Mayo. I have trouble with the concept of the American flag being offensive or disruptive. But to think about the fact that these kids deliberately wore the American flag and according to your report were taunting the other students, this was not something that they just picked that date out of a hat. They did it deliberately because they saw this as a contrast.
You wave the Mexican flag. Here, I will wave the American flag.
ROBERTS: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: But what it really comes down is exactly what you said, the concept of the American flag as being seen as offensive or disruptive. Is there any instance in this country in which -- that is our national flag, and that's the symbol of everything it means to be a citizen of this country. Is there any instance in which that can be offensive or disruptive?
(CROSSTALK)
NAVARRETTE: I have a tough time thinking of one. I think, if you want to be technical about it, they shouldn't be wearing flags on T-shirts or on bandanas to begin with. I mean, the U.S. code is pretty clear on that, that you're not supposed to be using the flag in these commercial enterprises that kind of way. You sell T-shirts that way.
But I have a tough time, again, as an American-born U.S. citizen, a tough time imagining this. But I know a finger in the eye when I see one. And these were a bunch of bratty kids, by the way, backed up by bratty parents, who are condoning this kind of action, when they shouldn't be.
ROBERTS: I know Kris is going to jump in right here.
KOBACH: Yes.
ROBERTS: But, first of all, you mentioned the United States code when it comes to the flag. It's Code Title 4, Chapter 1, Subsection 8(D). It says -- quote -- "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel."
Now, we have got some pictures here. We have got Jessica Simpson. She's got her -- if we could bring up those graphics -- Jessica Simpson wearing an American flag, wearing it quite well, Kid Rock also wearing an American flag. Now, he was actually wearing a flag. He wasn't just wearing an article of clothing that was made to look like a flag.
And then we also found this one, which was just sort of the ultimate picture in absurdity. It's a Mexican Chihuahua wearing an American flag.
But, Kris, why don't you straighten us out here? When can the American flag be worn and when can't it be worn?
KOBACH: Well, that statute is normally interpreted as not actually wearing a rectangular flag itself as clothing, a la Mick Jagger. Having stars and stripes on your tie is not normally assumed to be in violation of that statute.
But I think -- let's step back here -- the notion that school administrators would be saying it is offensive and inappropriate to wear anything that has the stars and stripes on it just shows how crazy things have gotten in some schools.
And going back to the Tinker case, you know, 45 years ago, some school administrators were saying, no, you can't wear that armband because that shows disrespect for our country's involvement in the war. Now we're at a point where some schools are saying, you even can't wear the American flag, because that disrespects somebody.
I think things have gone too far in some schools. ROBERTS: Gentlemen, we're, unfortunately, going to have to leave the ethnic studies question for another time. We had such a broad, wide-ranging discussion on the flag here, that we have eaten up all our time, but great to talk to you tonight.
Kris Kobach and Ruben Navarrette, thanks so much for joining us.
KOBACH: Thank you.
NAVARRETTE: My pleasure.
ROBERTS: Tonight, a report is just breaking involving a possible Pakistani accomplice in the Times Square terror plot, this as FBI agents lead raids across the Northeast, chasing the money trail. We will have a live update coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Our top security story tonight: the latest on the Times Square terror plot. Three people are in custody tonight after the feds staged lightning raids across the Northeast, all the way from Maine to New York. And Attorney General Eric Holder says all of them have ties to Faisal Shahzad, the suspect in the botched Times Square bombing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At about 6:00 this morning, FBI agents and agents with the Customs and Immigration Enforcement Service showed up at this house behind me in Watertown, Massachusetts, right outside of Boston. And within minutes, they apprehended two men described by neighbors as being Middle Eastern.
They are looking at the financial aspect of this, whether or not money was transferred from these two individuals to Faisal Shahzad, but it's unclear as to whether or not these two individuals actually knew what the money was going to be going to.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: They are being held on immigration charges. A federal law enforcement source tells me that they are more interested in the two individuals who were taken into custody outside Boston, in Watertown, than the one individual that was picked up in Maine
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: For the very latest now on the investigation, we turn to our national correspondent, Susan Candiotti. She has been following this developing story all day. She's in Times Square for us tonight.
And, Susan, you're reporting this evening that the FBI is focusing on -- on many different threads in this ongoing investigation, not just the money trail.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. There are many threads indeed.
But, tonight, we're also hearing a report from "The Washington Post" that is talking about what they're calling a previously undisclosed arrest in Pakistan, someone claiming to being an accomplice of the suspect in this case, Faisal Shahzad.
Now, CNN has previously reported that an individual was detained in Pakistan, someone who claimed that he drove Shahzad to an area where he received bomb training. But also tonight, John, we're seeing for the very first time a photograph of the Isuzu. This is believed to be the car identified as the getaway car.
This is a photograph that was shown during a meet-and-greet between President Obama and the New York City Police Department, including members of the bomb squad that participated in this investigation.
The photographs also show a key that is believed to belong to that Isuzu which was supposed to be the getaway car, and also the VIN plate from the SUV that belonged to the car that contained the explosives.
Now, to all those threads that you were talking about, yes, the FBI is looking at possible couriers who may have delivered money some way, somehow to Shahzad to help pay for the bomb plot, money that may have come from overseas that would be extremely hard to trace. But they're hot on that trail.
And also today, they executed search warrants in, as you heard, Massachusetts, at two locations there, both at a home and a gas station. And in New York, on Long island, we know that the FBI also raided two locations there, two homes. Again, no arrests were made.
And there was a third state in New Jersey, where they raided and executed a search warrant at a print shop, as well as the home of the owner of that print shop. And they also interviewed people there.
So, there are many tentacles, we're told, that they're looking at. They're looking at friends, associates, who paid for it, who did Shahzad meet with, who did he call, who did he talk with, looking at his e-mails. They have a lot of things to track down.
But we also talked to the U.S. attorney today leading this case and asked him whether Shahzad is still talking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PREET BHARARA, U.S. ATTORNEY: Faisal Shahzad is still cooperating. He's being interviewed and questioned by agents, and has been since the day he was taken into custody. And we are doing exactly what I think people want us to do, and that is to make sure that we get all the information we can with respect to any and all associates he may have and other information that would help us to prevent anything further from happening in the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CANDIOTTI: And, John, despite all of these raids today, the U.S. attorney says, the lead prosecutor in the case says, he knows of no imminent threats anywhere as a result of this -- John, back to you.
ROBERTS: Susan Candiotti for us tonight in Times Square -- Susan, thanks so much.
Want to bring in now retired police investigator and private security expert Lou Palumbo, also Bob Baer, a former CIA operative and intelligence columnist for TIME.com.
Lou, let's start with you. When you look at the extent of the arrests today, New Jersey, Long Island, New York, up into New England and Boston, what does that tell you about the potential size of a terrorist network it?
LOU PALUMBO, FORMER NEW YORK POLICE OFFICER: Well, it's considerable, but it's nothing new, John, quite honestly.
Last year, we saw apprehensions take place throughout the United States, Colorado, I believe it was Minnesota, Brooklyn. You know, there are open cases right now in Dallas, Texas. And this isn't really any revelation. It just really lends itself to the premise that there is support for this individual, and it's fairly wide-based.
ROBERTS: Bob Baer, when we're looking at the money trail here, it's an organization, very loose organization called a cash courier system. How does that work?
ROBERT BAER, INTELLIGENCE ANALYST, TIME.COM: It's very simple.
What happens is, someone takes a deposit, a cash deposit. Let's say Pakistan in Karachi. They give the money to a fairly benign- looking store. Once the money is left there, the man in the store will call an associate in the United States and say, listen, I just got paid $5,000. And we're going to have a guy, Shahzad, come pick the money up, and you give him the $5,000.
The problem for the FBI and the National Security Agency and the CIA is, there's no written record of this.
ROBERTS: Yes.
BAER: It's on a phone call, and it's very difficult to trace.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: We should point out, too, Bob, they're called hawalas.
BAER: Hawala.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: And they're -- yes, they're very prevalent in both Pakistan and Afghanistan, correct? BAER: As well as China. It's a different name, fei-chien, in China, but it's a very old system. It was used in the old -- a long time ago to beat taxes, beat the government.
But it's very well-refined. And it's a nightmare for the CIA and the FBI.
ROBERTS: Yes. I mean, how do -- how do these people get around typical reporting requirements when there are financial transactions?
BAER: They don't report them. They evading taxes as well. And the FBI has got to sort out today whether this involved narcotics, just avoiding taxes, or terrorism. The only way they can do this is haul these people in and go through their documents and e-mails and the rest of it.
ROBERTS: You know, Lou, we surmise -- and we don't know for sure -- but we surmise that these arrests fell out of the conversations that investigators have been having with Faisal Shahzad, if this indeed is a network that helped finance him.
So, you can unravel this after the fact. But how, as an investigator, do you try to uncover this before something happens?
PALUMBO: It's very problematic, because, unless they're on the radar screen already with our intelligence community, they're somewhat of an unknown quantity.
And just to clarify the issue of these apprehensions and the blossoming of this investigation, it wasn't just the fruition of interrogation or interviews with the suspect. It has to do with the FBI and our intelligence community going through a process where they just continuously connect dots.
They take one bit of information that leads to one person. They go to that person. It blossoms from there, based on communications, money movement, all types of thing, their E-ZPasses. It's just incredible, the process.
And I mentioned earlier there's going to be a lot of fruition out of this particular investigation. We were very fortunate nothing actually materialized. But, on the other hand, it's given the FBI and the intelligence community abroad something to bite into. And I think it's going to telegraph to people in the future, you need to take another look before you want to undertake a project like this.
ROBERTS: Bob, back to this cash courier system, this hawala system. We hear that the opium trade in Afghanistan is a huge source of money for the Taliban. Where else does the money come from that might have made its way from that part of the world into Faisal Shahzad's pocket?
BAER: Well, a lot of it comes out of the Gulf, part of the zakat, which is charities, Islamic charities. So, if you're a devout Muslim, you will give money to a charity. But you can't tell what happens after you've given the money. Most of it ends up in orphanages and so forth. But a small percentage will end up in the Taliban's hands and into the terrorists' hands. And even countries that are -- that have turned the corner on terrorism, like Saudi Arabia, can't keep track of the money.
So, there's so many sources. And it's just not narcotics. It's really, really hard and you do have to painstakingly go through every single lead.
ROBERTS: Bob Baer and Lou Palumbo, good to talk to you tonight. Thanks for coming by. Really appreciate it.
PALUMBO: Thank you.
ROBERTS: And coming up: an inspiring new documentary about a group of disabled athletes who know no limitations. We will find out what happened when the movie was played for some wounded warriors at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Our number-one international story tonight: the shocking moment we have been following all day on CNN, a renegade general in Thailand shot in the head during an interview with a reporter from "The New York Times" covering anti-government protests.
It's the top world story on the "New York Times" Web site, which has this photo of the opposition leader talking to Thomas Fuller, who works for "The International Herald Tribune," just before the attack.
CNN's Dan Rivers has the incredible video of what happened next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He's been one of the most outspoken Red Shirt protesters, a renegade major general nicknamed Seh Daeng, the red commander.
This is him giving an interview to the press. Moments later, he's shot in the head. This extraordinary footage shows him bleeding profusely just seconds after the attack.
The police think he was shot by a sniper. The question is, was it the Thai army that tried to kill him? The army has said nothing about the incident. The shooting provoked fury and panic among his followers. His limp body rushed to the hospital where he remains in critical condition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: One protester was killed in the violence in the worst day of Thailand's worsening political crisis.
Turning now to an inspirational new documentary by award-winning filmmaker Steven Barber. "Unbeaten" tells the story of a brutal road race that's been called the toughest in the world. All the more impressive when you find out that the competitors are paraplegics in wheelchairs and hand cycles. The movie was taken to Walter Reed Army Medical Center and screened last night for some of the military's wounded warriors covering from devastating injuries in Iraq and Afghanistan. Did they find inspiration? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OZ SANCHEZ, PARALYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: I got involved in a hit and run motorcycle accident. It left me paralyzed from the waist down. And since we went to the whole life cycle of depression, dark areas, really sort of lost hope for life at that point. But at the end of the day, you know, made a decision, you know, it's either going to be sink or swim. I'll sink or swim. (INAUDIBLE) Olympic gold medalist Oz Sanchez.
CHRIS BLAUVELT, CT ARMY NATIONAL GUARD: My issue, I have a broken neck, broken back, broken pelvis. This leg was broken. And they had amputated the right leg.
Christopher Blauvelt. I'm in the Connecticut Army National Guard. And I'm here at Walter Reed receiving some treatment for some injuries I received in an IED over in Afghanistan recently.
SANCHEZ: The race that the documentary depicts is a state race to Alaska, Burbank to Alaska, 267 miles over six days. We're averaging 50 miles a day through some gnarly terrain. It's not your typical day. It's not the ideal, you know, let's go to the fight cable (ph) "Weekend Warrior" style, but nevertheless, the concept, the underlying concept is still there. And that is, the recovery, and you know, both psychologically and physically through sports and athleticism.
BLAUVELT: Oh, it was awesome. I didn't realize they had something like that going on in Alaska. And I didn't realize the guys travel so fast in the chairs either. It was amazing.
SANCHEZ: One slogan I live by, that's "know no limits." I have it tattooed in my chest. That's my motto and that sort of gets redefined and gets a deeper meaning and how it could benefit others every time I'm out in the race. My real intent and goal here is just essentially to convey the power of the human spirit and recovery through sports and athleticism.
BLAUVELT: I'm not very confident in myself right now, because I don't know where my injuries are going to lead me. But, yes, in a sense, you know, I would definitely love something like doing crew or something. No way I would do the cycling, not with those guys out there. You know, that was insane.
SANCHEZ: Life is not over. You know, you suffer a catastrophic injury from an IED blast, whatever. Sort of a different injury you sustain while camping in the Middle East. But there's still plenty of hope. There's still plenty of opportunities.
BLAUVELT: And I feel great. So I'm just ready to start walking.
SANCHEZ: Nobody can tell you what you can dream of, you know. Only you can sort of dictate that. The hope is all up here. And disability, most of the time I find is also up here. Self-induced disability. So at the end of the day, you keep hope alive and, you know, the world is your oyster (ph), no doubt.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Steven Barber is the award-winning filmmaker who made "Unbeaten." He joins us with one of the wounded warriors who watched the movie last night at Walter Reed, Private First Class Wade Christiansen. They're joining me now from Washington.
Steven, let's start with you. Why do you want to bring this documentary to Walter Reed Medical Center?
STEVEN C. BARBER, DIRECTOR, "UNBEATEN": There was no other place to really -- that was my core audience. I mean, these were the men that just came back from the field that maybe feeling -- are feeling, you know, hopeless. And this movie lets -- because everyone in my film has been there. They've had these horrible, horrific accidents. They've been shot. They've been hit in the back with forklifts. And the story is one guy fell out of a tree bear hunting. And they've been through it. So it shows somebody who's just back from the field that, yes, your life isn't over. It's just beginning.
ROBERTS: In a way, you certainly went through your share of trauma. You were in Afghanistan back in January. You had a patrol out. Six bombs hidden in a wall went off. What were the extent of your injuries?
PFC. WADE CHRISTIANSEN, AFGHANISTAN WAR VETERAN: I suffered complete loss of vision in my left eye, a fractured jaw, five fractured teeth and just shrapnel peppering on my left side.
ROBERTS: Yes. Has it been a long road back for you?
CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, yes, it has. But you know, it's been going really well and --
ROBERTS: So when you watched the movie last night, and you saw people like Oz Sanchez who's got, you know, that slogan tattooed on his chest there "know no limits," did you draw inspiration from that?
CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, yes, of course. I mean, the movie was definitely a great inspiration for people like me. It's just, you know, it shows you never quit. You know, you never give up on what you want. And disability is not going to set you back.
ROBERTS: What does it say to you? Does it say, I mean, when you look at these guys and they do this 260-mile race over six days through the mountains of Alaska, does it say to you, hey, you know, maybe I can come back from this?
CHRISTIANSEN: Oh, yes, of course. I mean, it shows you that, you know, anything is possible. Even if you have a disability, you know, it's definitely not the end of the road.
ROBERTS: Hey, Steven, what kind of similarities have you found between these wheelchair athletes and the wounded warriors that you met at Walter Reed?
BARBER: You know, the similarities are stark and amazing. I mean, they don't give up. I had a tour of Walter Reed yesterday and saw some of these guys. We went to the rehab. I got to see part of Walter Reed that most people don't get to see. And most of these guys want to go back to their unit. I mean, they don't let it stop them.
So a movie like this, I mean, it doesn't -- if you got shot in the field or you lost your leg, it doesn't matter how. My producer Cameron Henry and I, we had an opportunity to walk through and see the inspiration of these guys. I can't even tell you the stories that they were telling me. And I'm like, they want to go back to the field. I mean, the similarities are amazing.
These are the elite of the elite. And they bring inspiration to everybody. I can't even -- I'm almost speechless.
ROBERTS: And, Wade, there were a couple hundred of you at Walter Reed Army Medical Center last night. There's obviously thousands of wounded warriors across the country. What message would you give to some of those wounded warriors who are thinking, you know, I've got a real tough life ahead of me, I've got a lot to come from, I don't know if I can do it?
CHRISTIANSEN: I would just say, you know, don't let it get you down. Don't let anybody get you down, you know. Just keep pushing like you usually would, you know, in the military. Just keep that confidence and just don't quit. Keep going.
ROBERTS: Wade Christensen, we're glad that you're on the road to recovery. And thank you for your service. And Steven Barber, thank you for this great film. And thanks for taking it to Walter Reed last night. That was a nice gesture.
BARBER: Thank you, sir, I enjoyed it very much. Appreciate your time.
ROBERTS: Coming up, it was mostly men who tanked the economy, but now it's women who are in charge of cleaning up the financial industry. Are women the new sheriffs of Wall Street? We've got some people with some interesting things to say on that as soon as we come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Wall Street dominated by men who helped bring about the worst economic meltdown since the Great Depression. Now, it's up to some very powerful women to make sure that never happens again. We've got that story coming right up. But first, Joe Johns here tonight with the "Download."
Hi, Joe. JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: John, dragnet tonight. FBI agents fanned across the northeast making arrests in anti-terror raids in New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts and Maine. The Feds arrested Pakistani men in connection with the Times Square bombing investigation, two in Massachusetts, the third in Maine. The Customs Enforcement officials say the three suspects were taken into custody on immigration violation.
The bloody rioting in Thailand took another deadly turn. One demonstrator was killed and an anti-government protest leader, a rogue army general, was shot in the head. The government has made it clear soldiers will shoot at demonstrators they consider armed terrorists. The protesters say the government is an illegitimate military state. They're demanding new elections.
BP is turning to trash to seal off that massive oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. Engineers are hoping to shoot pieces of tires, knotted rope even golf balls to plug the leak. Once the leak is clogged, heavy mud and cement would be poured in. This technique has been used to plug wells in Kuwait during the first gulf war, but it's never been tried 5,000 feet under the sea.
And under FDA pressure, Walgreens has postponed its plans to sell genetic tests kits at pharmacies. The controversial DNA kits were to go on sale tomorrow. The kits would have allowed customers to send their saliva samples to a lab to see if they're at risk for several life-threatening diseases. Genetic experts and the FDA warned consumers to be skeptical of the product, saying it has not been proven to be safe, effective or accurate.
So there's a problem there, you find out you really don't have bubonic plague.
ROBERTS: Yes. Well, I guess the safety part isn't that much of an issue because all you do is you spit in a cup. But the accuracy part, that would be key, I would think, Joe?
JOHNS: Yes. Exactly right. And there could be safety defending on your reaction after finding out your (INAUDIBLE).
ROBERTS: True, definitely. All right. Joe Johns for us tonight. Joe, thanks so much.
Coming up, the big players on Wall Street, mostly men, almost all of them actually. And we've all seen how well that worked out. Now the wing tips are being stepped on by some serious power pumps. Does Wall Street need women to watch over the money? Stay with us.
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ROBERTS: Our number one political story tonight comes not from Washington, but from Buffalo, New York. That is, of course, where the president was today for a speech on the economy. But he ran smack into a lot of anger about jobs, anger that was expressed in no uncertain terms on YouTube.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need a freaking job. I need a freaking job. I need a freaking job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a blunt message delivered on YouTube --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I need a freaking job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of Buffalo New York's unemployed hope to grab President Obama's attention.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was greeted in Buffalo by a blunt billboard with a message about the state of the current job market. He took pains today to say he understands it.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And you know, economists have all kinds of fancy formulas and mathematical equations to measure the exact moment that the recession ended. And it's great for the stock markets to bounce back. But if you're still looking for a job out there, it's still a recession.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: That billboard is saying "I need a freaking job." The president's motorcade did not pass by it either on his way into or out of town.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minces time. Larry is with us now. And he's got a preview. Hey, Larry.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Hey, John, rapper T.I. is here tonight. And he's talking to us exclusively about his nine months in prison on a weapons conviction. He'll tell us why he thought he needed guns and how he's turning his life around. He's answering my questions, yours, too. T.I. for the hour, next on "LARRY KING LIVE" -- John.
ROBERTS: Proving you cannot have whatever you like. All right, Larry King, we'll see you in about 15 minutes' time.
No question that Wall Street has largely been dominated by men, and some have some suggested it was all that testosterone that ran the economy right into the ground. But now, post-meltdown, some very powerful women are in charge of cleaning up the mess. Or as the cover of "Time" magazine puts it, it's women who have become the new sheriffs of Wall Street. So will a shot of estrogen change the way that Wall Street does business? We'll ask Mireille Guiliano. She is the former CEO of Clicquot and author of "Women, Work & the Art of Savoir Faire." Chrystia Freeland is the global editor-at-large for Reuters. And William Cohan, a contributor at "The Daily Beast, also author of "House of Cards: A Tale of Hubris and Wretched Excess on Wall Street."
So the three women on the cover of "Time" magazine, Mary Schapiro, head of the SEC, Sheila Bair, head of the FDIC, and Elizabeth Warren, who's heading up the TARP program. Chrystia, are women becoming the new watchdogs on Wall Street?
CHRYSTIA FREELAND, GLOBAL EDITOR-AT-LARGE, REUTERS: Well, it's certainly the case that we see women strong in the regulatory agencies. And something quite interesting is in some of the industries that avoided a total financial meltdown, you had women in powerful regulatory rules. Our own Canada, Julie Dixon, probably the best bank regulator. But I have to say, John, I am against the thesis which says women are better at policing Wall Street than men. And you have to be very, very careful about these kinds of gender distinctions because then someone is going to say in the go-go years when you want risk takers, you shouldn't let girls do that. Girls are only good at making us follow rules. They're not good at making money.
ROBERTS: All right. Mireille Guiliano, what do you say about that? Are women as good as men at making money?
MIREILLE GUILIANO, FMR. CEO, CLICQUOT: Yes, actually. I don't quite agree that we shouldn't -- you know, we can make a difference between men and women. They are not the same. But I do think that today women are very strong. They're very well educated. They have skills that men don't have, or they are better at certain things. And they're certainly used to cleaning up the mess. It happens in all ways of life, so why not the financial world.
I think what's a plus for women is that they are used to making rules for the family, for their work, for their life. And I think that the world needs some rules. And why shouldn't they do it? I think they can do a very good job. And we see more and more women, educated in middle management, and we're becoming the majority. So maybe it's time to switch and bring our flavor to that.
I'm not saying that women are better than men. I think they should work together. And as more women are added to the team, that's a plus, and it gives strength to women --
ROBERTS: Yes.
GUILIANO: -- to do better and more for the society and for the 21st century which needs it badly.
ROBERTS: Well, William Cohan, as a man who, by inference lives his life without rules, what are you thinking about all of this? You know, people have said if Lehman Brothers was Lehman "Sisters" maybe they'd still be around today.
WILLIAM COHAN, CONTRIBUTOR, "THE DAILY BEAST": Look, I think one of the important things to remember is one of the -- Brooksley Born, who was the head of the CFTC, the Commodity Futures Trade Commission in the late '90s, was the person to say that derivatives should be regulated. OK? And who overruled her, Larry Summers and Bob Rubin, then in the treasury. And recently President Clinton said he wished he had listen to Brooksley Born and not listen to Larry Summers and Bob Rubin about that.
FREELAND: But you think she was right on derivatives because she's a woman?
COHAN: No, no, she was right on derivatives. Period.
What I'm saying is that, the point is that it happened to be a woman who got it right on derivatives, who was overruled by men. And I think it's a shame. Had she been allowed to regulate derivatives, a lot of this may not have happened. I think the other shame, John and Chrystia, is that, you know, despite these three new sheriffs of Wall Street who happen to be women, on Wall Street itself, only two to three percent of --
ROBERTS: Yes.
COHAN: -- of financial CEOs are women. And last time I checked, something like 51 percent of the population was women. So --
ROBERTS: So, Chrystia, why is that? Why aren't there more women rising through the ranks into the upper echelons of these financial services firms?
FREELAND: I personally think it's still a sexist world actually.
COHAN: It's definitely a boy's (ph) problem.
FREELAND: It is an old boys club. And I think, you know, also Wall Street, as you guys know, is incredibly demanding. And if you want to have kids that can be really rough. But I do think that actually the fact that Wall Street is still such a male place may be one reason why women regulators have an edge. One of the things that we've noticed in terms of regulatory failure is the regulators started to think too much like the people they were regulators. And maybe in this one instance, being an outsider thinking like, you know, outsiders made regulators better.
ROBERTS: I want to go to Mireille and ask her a question about why there are so few women and CEOs. Only seven percent of Fortune 500 companies. But we want to take a short, Mireille. We'll be right back with you.
More on this discussion coming up. We're going to talk about how a financial firm in Iceland run by women managed to weather the economic storm while everything else melted down. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: So would Wall Street be better off with women in charge? We're back with Mireille Guiliano, Chrystia Freeland and William Cohan. Mireille, let's go to you. Seven percent of Fortune 500 companies have a woman as their CEO. You were the CEO of a big company. Why is that the situation and how do we change it?
GUILIANO: Well, it was. And in my case in the wine world, I was one of the very few women. So this was 20 years ago, things are changing fast now. Not fast enough, maybe. But I think we are becoming the majority. And as this happens, women themselves are helping each other, are mentoring each other. And we're becoming very, very strong force out there. And we will change the world because we will make our own rules. And our rules will be different. And we have a compassion, we have the skills, we have so much to offer. We just need to be out there and be part of that network and maybe change it a bit.
ROBERTS: You know, there are obviously biological differences between men and women. But they have been --
FREELAND: Are you going to tell us about them, John?
ROBERTS: I don't think I need to. There have been some studies that have been done that show that there are biological differences as well, hormonally driven in the amount of risks that a woman is willing to take --
FREELAND: Yes.
ROBERTS: -- versus as a man. And that because a man has 15 times the testosterone of a woman, he is more likely to take a risk and, therefore, could be more successful on Wall Street but also could be more of a disaster. What do you think?
FREELAND: Well --
GUILIANO: And therefore, we need a balance.
ROBERTS: Go ahead, Chrystia, sorry.
FREELAND: I'm really cautious about leaning too heavily on those studies precisely because, you know, I think that if you do, you'll find women being excluded from the kind of jobs where you want, you know, a really risky person who's willing to do something brave and daring. And the other thing that I think is worth pointing out, I mean, it's great to talk about women being compassionate.
ROBERTS: Right.
FREELAND: Women making their own rules and so on. And if Lehman Brothers were Lehman "Sisters" that things will be OK. But Erin Callan was the CFO at Lehman Brothers and didn't do such a great job.
ROBERTS: Right.
FREELAND: So --
ROBERTS: Mireille, were you a risk taker? Or were you a risk averse as a CEO?
GUILIANO: I was a big risk taker. And I think the difference may be is that we know, we know how to take risks but we also know that there's some limit. And we are more careful, I think. And less greedy, maybe. And we have a better sense of justice. And for those great women who really want to change the world, and today there are plenty of them, I think they see that our society cannot go on the way it has been going on.
ROBERTS: Yes. What --
GUILIANO: So we need to make those changes.
ROBERTS: One quick comments if I could from Bill Cohan. You know, when women do get into some of these financial houses, how are they treated? Not in all cases but in some cases?
COHAN: I mean, not well. And I wrote a book about the way women were treated at Lizzard (ph). And they got their first woman professional in 1980. They tried to get a second a few years later and the partner said, why are we getting rid of the first, she's doing a good job. And they said, no, we're getting another. They said no, no, we only want one. The law says we only have to have one, so why do we need more than one?
FREELAND: They filled their quota. That's good enough.
ROBERTS: Unbelievable.
COHAN: They filled their quota. They didn't have their first woman partner until 1991. And they don't have very many people, women who are in the senior positions now at the firm.
ROBERTS: Yes. Great discussion. Thanks so much for coming in, all of you. Really appreciate it.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes time. But coming up next, sometime to kick back and have a laugh. Here's just a sample of Betty White telling Jay Leno what it was like to host "Saturday Night Live."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETTY WHITE, COMEDIAN: You have all these changes.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE JAY LENO SHOW": Right.
WHITE: Big changes and all that. So somebody grabs your hand and pulls you and you're out horizontal back here. And they take you into something, a room smaller than this desk. And somebody's taking your clothes off and somebody's putting --
LENO: No, I didn't ask you how you got the job.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: By the way, I forgot to mention in our discussion, Eiger Capital, Iceland, the firm run all by women, the only firm to survive the economic downturn virtually unscathed.
Time now for tonight's punch line. The late night guys are all over the map with their jokes from Sarah Palin to the Gulf Coast oil spill. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: Sarah Palin, former governor of Alaska, has a new book coming out this fall. The warning came from an alert t-shirt vendor oil.
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST: Oil is still bumping into the Gulf of Mexico. BP officials are trying -- they're trying to put a good spin on. They pointed out today that in the last two years, America has seen its first black president and now we have our first black ocean. So that's kind of --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police in Cairo have detained an American man who arrives on a flight from JFK with two handguns, 250 bullets, swords, daggers and knives in his luggage. When they heard this, JFK screeners were like, sure, he had all those things. But here's what he didn't have, bottled water or nail clippers?
LENO: The Senate today voted to toughen standards for home loans. Under these new standards, lenders would have to verify that borrowers can repay the loan. You can no longer borrow money if you can pay it back. Let's just hope China doesn't adopt this rule or we're screwed. OK? We are so screwed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And that's it for us. "LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
