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JOY BEHAR SHOW

Art of Lying; Tea Party Fever

Aired May 18, 2010 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, J.D. Hayworth, John McCain`s opponent in Arizona, he says gay marriage is the same as marrying a horse. That is so true. The last time I was on Fire Island I saw two palominos running a cart shop.

Then, a real live Tea partier will join me. We struck a deal. I won`t refer to her as a tea-bagger and she doesn`t have to see my birth certificate.

And Charlie sheen, he might be going to jail in Aspen. Not exactly Abu Ghraib over there, you know. I mean if you cause trouble they punish you by serving red wine with fish.

That and more right now.

When Adam Wheeler, a student at Harvard, was arrested for scamming his way into the school it opened up a discussion on lying. Now, some lies are ok like, "No, honey, your love handles are very sexy," and others like, "there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" are not.

Ok. Here to discuss the Harvard story and the art of lying are higher education reporter for the Boston Globe, Tracy Jan; criminal profiler and author of "The Profiler" Pat Brown and Jayson Blair, a former "New York Times" reporter who happened to have been forced to resign after fabricating stories. He is now a certified life coach. I love that, success.

I want to start with Tracy first. Ok. Tracy, Wheeler was a senior at Harvard when they discovered this scam. Now, who is he and what did he do?

TRACY JAN, BOSTON GLOBE: Who is he really? Adam Wheeler --

BEHAR: Yes. Who is he? Who is this guy?

JAN: His name really is Adam B. Wheeler. He`s 23 years old. He was a senior at Harvard until the fall when they discovered that he had fabricated his credentials to get into Harvard as well as plagiarized a professor`s work to apply for the Rhodes and the Fulbright scholarships.

In reality he`s from Delaware, a rural town. I think right now he lives in a beach community with his parents. He had attended a public high school, not Andover as he had indicated on his application to Harvard. And he went to Bowden College, a perfectly great school, for two years until he was suspended in 2007 for plagiarizing an essay, academic dishonesty.

BEHAR: Why do they always lie to get into Harvard or Yale? Why not Bob Jones University? It`s always the top schools. I guess they`re not stupid. They`re just liars.

How did Harvard find out?

JAN: Well, apparently one of the professors in the English department was reviewing his applications for the Fulbright and Rhodes scholarships and he discovered that Adam Wheeler`s work that was submitted was very similar to that of Harvard professor Stephen Greenblat (ph), a world renowned Renaissance literature scholar. He noticed it then and Harvard dug deeper and found that there were many other fabrications that came to light including --

BEHAR: They`re smart -- yes, go ahead.

JAN: I was going to say -- including all of the work, all of the transcript he submitted to Harvard in order to get into the school as well as essays he submitted to win these prestigious writing prizes at Harvard.

BEHAR: They`re smart but think they`re not going to get caught. Copying a Renaissance scholar? No one is going to check that?

JAN: In his own department.

BEHAR: In Harvard. Come on.

After he was caught and dismissed from Harvard though, didn`t he apply to other schools? He got into other schools?

JAN: He applied to Yale and Brown. He did not get into Yale. I don`t think he got into Brown. But I spoke with the dean of admissions at Yale who said one of their admissions officers actually did some background checking and discovered that the application he submitted was not true.

BEHAR: How did he plea today?

JAN: He pled not guilty --

BEHAR: Not guilty, of course.

JAN: -- pled not guilty to 20 counts.

BEHAR: Well, he`s a liar.

All right. Thank you, Tracy, very much. Thanks very much for all that information.

Now I want to bring in my panel to talk about even more lying.

Jayson, now, you were a reporter for the "New York Times" and you resigned because of plagiarism. We saw the movie. Tell me why you lied.

JAYSON BLAIR, RESIGNED AFTER FABRICATING STORIES IN NY TIMES: For me personally it`s what we would call malingering, and those are people who lie for either personal gain or to avoid something. In my particular case I think I was trying to avoid admitting that I had a problem, you know my own anxiety. I was trying to make it appear I was a lot healthier than I was. So I fit into that third category that`s a lot like the student from Harvard or Rich Blumenthal, the attorney general in Connecticut today.

BEHAR: Oh, yes. We`ll get to him in a minute.

BLAIR: Right. I sort of fit in that category. So I guess I understand, I guess, probably what we`d call the more depraved version of lying.

BEHAR: I see. Does the lie, Pat -- does the lie start small or does it start big?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: It starts early. It starts really early in life.

BEHAR: Like how early? Like a child?

BROWN: Like a little kid who goes and says I don`t have a cookie in my hand, mommy. What is that? It`s not a cookie. Then if your mother lets you get away with it, oh, that worked. It starts young and then they keep working on it until they get better and better.

And you know, you don`t have to win every time. You just have to find one sucker here and one sucker there and then you also practice your lie so you get better. I`m guessing this student; he probably plagiarized all the way through high school.

And what`s happening today is that there`s such a level of plagiarism and it`s so hard to catch that teachers simply don`t have the time to sit there and go through every one of these papers trying to figure out every method of plagiarizing unless you`re so stupid you went to Wikipedia and just took the whole --

BEHAR: Right. Right, exactly.

Jayson, did you start as a kid to lie?

BLAIR: I think we all started as kids lying. I think one of the things that happens to a lot of us that there`s that fear, right. That impression that mom has eyes in the back of her head, when we`re younger it kind of serves as a deterrent for lying.

Then we all realize mom doesn`t really have eyes in the back of her head and we have to not lie for some other reason. Either our own internal values and ethics or some other motive, fear or whatever it is.

What I found sort of in my case and other cases of people who come to me for help is that it -- just like Pat said, it starts in baby steps. And the first baby step is the realization that I can get away with that lie. They`re not going to catch everything.

Once that person crosses that line, if they don`t have the moral underpinning, right, that moral center that`s going to bring them back or that sense of pride in their work or it doesn`t matter to them that it`s not really their work -- an A is good for them regardless of how they got it -- then all of a sudden the gates are open.

Does that make sense, Pat?

BEHAR: Yes, it does. Hold on a second because I want to present a few liars that are in the news. This guy, Connecticut`s attorney general Richard Blumenthal; he`s a Democrat running for Chris Dodd`s seat.

Ok. Take a listen to a clip of a Richard Blumenthal speech from March 2008 that is posted on NewYorkTimes.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, SENATORIAL CANDIDATE, CONNECTICUT: We have learned something very important since the days that I have served in Vietnam. And you exemplify it. Whatever we think about the war, whatever we call it -- Afghanistan or Iraq -- we owe our Military men and women unconditional support.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Ok. Over the past couple of years, this guy Blumenthal has reportedly said he served in Vietnam in a few speeches. Not -- never been to Vietnam, is not a Vietnam veteran.

BROWN: Palm Beach looked like Vietnam, didn`t it?

BEHAR: Palm Beach is exactly like Vietnam.

BROWN: Or some place else.

BEHAR: Well, maybe now but not then. So here`s a guy who he`s in the -- he`s an attorney general running for the United States senator and he thinks he can get away with it.

BROWN: How long would he get away with it?

BEHAR: I guess up until now.

BROWN: Well, it worked.

BEHAR: It didn`t work because they were going to catch him -- people were going to find out.

BROWN: Eventually but it`s interesting because when they start doing it, they do it because -- well, in my opinion, the reason they lie is because it gets you something. It`s a simple fact. The fact is you care more about yourself than you care about those other people and you don`t really worry about what they think about you as long as you think you can get away with it and you get so arrogant -- if you do it enough you get so arrogant you think you will get away with it forever.

BEHAR: Ok. Here`s another beauty. This guy Indiana Congressman Mark Souder resigned today after admitting to an extramarital affair with a staffer. Here`s a clip from his press conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK SOUDER (R), INDIANA CONGRESSMAN: I will submit my resignation to Speaker Pelosi effective this Friday.

I can never fully thank all those who have worked so hard, given so much and supported me through eight contested primaries and eight general elections. Only when you have been the recipient can you really feel the humbling power of such generosity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: This guy was an Evangelical Christian who championed family values and abstinence. This is what I love about some of these people. He`s out there -- we`re supposed to feel sorry for him, this hypocrite and liar?

BROWN: Well, he`s crying pretty good at the moment because he got caught. But when it was happening he was so shocked he didn`t realize it was happening to him. He`s like, "Somebody went with me?"

BEHAR: We have to go. That`s why he`s crying because he got caught.

BROWN: Exactly.

BEHAR: Ok. Thank you everyone. We`ll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Miss USA under fire. Some conservatives say she only won because she`s a Muslim.

And "Desperate Housewives" Teri Hatcher tells Joy why she is less than thrilled about having to leave Wisteria Lane.

Now back to Joy.

BEHAR: John McCain, remember him, the maverick -- not. He`s losing more than his principles. He`s actually firing staff members as he tries to beat Tea Party candidate J.D. Hayworth in the Arizona Republican primary. With me to help figure out what`s up with the Tea Party and their candidates is Amy Kremer, director of Grassroots and Coalitions for the Tea Party Express.

Hi Amy, how are you?

AMY KREMER, THE TEA PARTY EXPRESS: Hey, Joy. I`m good. How are you?

BEHAR: I`m pretty good.

Let me -- I have to get a few things straight about the Tea Party, ok?

KREMER: Ok.

BEHAR: First of all, I read the poll in "New York Times"/CBS poll and they found that Tea Partiers are wealthier, more educated -- well educated more than the general public in fact. They -- most of them send their kids to public schools and they`re ok with Social Security and Medicare. What is it that`s bugging you people?

KREMER: Well, it`s about the spending, the out of control spending. We cannot spend our way out of debt. And that is what is resonating with Americans across the country. That is what is unifying us, the glue that holds us together.

BEHAR: But you know what happens Amy, on that point is that a lot of people on the left like myself who never could really support President Bush, I`m a little irritated by it because I never heard one word from your group during the Bush administration when he was spending and spending on a war that is unnecessary war and on the deficit -- that -- he came in with a surplus. He left with a deficit. I never heard word one from your people.

KREMER: And you know what I appreciate that. And you`re right. And the thing about it is, is this movement started back when Bush was still in office and when the spending was out of control.

You just didn`t hear about it then because it had not grown to what it is now. It`s a political movement. And we`ve grown day by day, month by month. And now we`re on the radar screen and you`re hearing about it. But I can assure you that`s how we all came together through social media, social networking, Facebook, Twitter and that stuff was going on back when Bush was still in office.

BEHAR: All right, so it`s mainly your issue is fiscal.

KREMER: Right.

BEHAR: Fiscal issues.

KREMER: It`s all fiscal. We don`t deal with the social issues.

BEHAR: You don`t at all, because this Freedom Works group which is an offshoot of the Tea Party -- are you familiar with them?

KREMER: I am familiar with Freedom Works. And I know that there are different groups involved. But the Tea Party Movement, we are completely nonbiased. We cross all political lines. There are independents, Democrats involved in this movement and we deal strictly with the fiscal issues. That`s what we`re focused on.

BEHAR: All right, well, then this J.D. Hayworth --

KREMER: Right.

BEHAR: He once compared gay marriage to marrying a horse. Is he on drugs and do you guys support him?

KREMER: I don`t think he`s on drugs, Joy. But I think what he was -- I think what he was talking about was about how open the Massachusetts law is. I didn`t hear his comment. I read about it in a clip.

But, no, he`s not the Tea Party political candidate. We are a political movement, so we don`t have candidates. That is something for the people of Arizona to decide and they`re going to make their choice. I believe there are actually three candidates in that race.

BEHAR: Ok, so you don`t support Hayworth?

KREMER: I`m not saying whether or not I support Hayworth or not. The bottom line is, you know, we`re dealing with the fiscal issues and there`s a lot of issues involved here. But we need to talk about the issues and stick to the issues and not start slinging these personal attacks because that doesn`t do anybody any good.

BEHAR: Ok, look at this photo, Amy, that we have. Do you see that photo?

KREMER: Actually, I can`t see that photo.

BEHAR: You can`t. It`s a picture -- it says "Obama care" --

KREMER: Right.

BEHAR: -- and then it`s a picture of Obama with a bone through his nose and he`s sitting there like I guess some kind of African warrior.

KREMER: Right.

BEHAR: Now, that is a pretty racist whatever it is -- a poster.

KREMER: Right.

BEHAR: Now, what are you supposed to do -- what are you going to do to keep these crazies out of the party?

KREMER: Well, you know it`s like what we do every time. I mean, people show up at these events and they have racist posters with pictures, sayings. And we tell them we`re not -- they`re not welcome. That is --

BEHAR: Why can`t you just prohibit them from the -- from the event? Just say, look, you people --

KREMER: You know what we --

BEHAR: -- please just don`t show up here because you`re misrepresenting us.

KREMER: Well and I did that actually when I was on your program a couple of weeks ago and I`ll say it again. If you`re racist go away, we don`t want you. That`s not what we`re about.

This is about being American, about our Constitution and about fiscal responsibility. There`s no room for racism in this movement and it won`t be tolerated.

BEHAR: Ok, I think -- I think you guys need to shout that a little bit louder and on different shows and really speak out against that. That`s my own feeling.

You know the poll that I read says also that Obama does not share the values of most Americans according to Tea Partiers.

That really fascinates me. First of all, according to me, he`s very conservative in many ways, Obama. He`s doubled down in Afghanistan. He believes in drilling in the oceans which I disagree with. Look at what just happened in the Gulf. And yet --

KREMER: It`s a tragedy.

BEHAR: -- you say that he doesn`t share your values. What values are you talking about?

KREMER: But Joy, this is not about the President. It`s so easy because everybody wants to make it about the President. This is not about our President. This goes back to when Bush was in office and Bush and Obama have one common thread and that is Congress. That is our federal government.

Neither Bush nor Obama can do what they do without Congress. This is about the spending. We need to stop these political attacks.

I mean, look, you may not agree with him on every issue or whatever but it`s not about him. It is about our federal government that`s out of control. That`s what this movement is about.

BEHAR: But the Tea Partiers also want their Medicare and they want their Social Security. Isn`t that spending? I mean, what are we supposed to do with that answer? That`s a contradiction, isn`t it?

KREMER: Well, and you know what, we do need to cut back. I`m not an expert on the U.S. economy. I`m not an economist. We need to have those conversations. We need to have those dialogues. What programs can we cut? And we need to cut somewhere. I mean, look, when families are cutting across the board across this country because their incomes have been cut --

BEHAR: Well, what do you cut, what do you want to cut?

KREMER: I mean, no --

BEHAR: You want to cut the fire department, the police department, do you want to cut Medicare?

KREMER: No we`re not --

BEHAR: What do you want to cut?

KREMER: This is the thing, Joy. Is we`re not -- we`re not, I mean, look, we need some taxes. We have to support our infrastructure.

BEHAR: That`s right.

KREMER: There are things we have to pay for.

I mean, you know, we need to help the people who need help. But the bottom line is, is that we cannot spend our way out of this debt.

BEHAR: Ok, all right, but Amy, what do you want to cut?

KREMER: I don`t know. I mean, I`m not qualified to make that choice and decision.

BEHAR: But if you`re not qualified to say that then how do you go around saying we need to cut things when you don`t know what to cut?

KREMER: Joy, we can`t spend our way out of debt. You can`t spend your way out of debt, we -- families can`t spend their way out of debt. How can the American government spend our way out of debt? We can`t do it.

BEHAR: Well, something has got to give.

KREMER: How about -- well, how about we cut out some of the pork that`s coming out of Washington? I mean, there`s a lot of pork that`s coming out of Washington. There are programs that could be cut --

BEHAR: You know, I didn`t know the Tea Partiers were so kosher. No pork. Listen, let me ask you a question about Sarah Palin.

KREMER: Yes, go for it.

BEHAR: A lot of the -- a lot of the people in this poll said that they didn`t think Sarah was qualified to be president. Do you think she is?

KREMER: You know, I`m not looking at 2012 right now. I don`t know if she`s qualified or not. I know that we are focused right now on getting some good fiscal conservatives into office. I know Sarah Palin has resonated with many people across this country because she is standing up to the establishment and bucking the establishment so to speak.

BEHAR: But she`s a very polarizing figure. She uses words like we`re all Arizonans. No, we`re not. And she uses words like the real America. You know a lot of people like me feel that we`re in the real America too.

You know my whole -- all my father and my uncles, everybody fought in World War II, so I`m a real American too. And I always feel that that`s pushing me out of the mainstream when she says that. And I resent it, frankly.

KREMER: Well and I appreciate that and I respect that Joy, I absolutely do. I mean, you`re a right. She is a polarizing figure but she also has bucked the system and the establishment and stood up to some of these partisan politics that have been going on.

BEHAR: Yes. But what she says is polarizing.

Listen, Amy. We could go on for days on this topic but thank you very much for coming on. I appreciate it.

KREMER: Thank you Joy.

BEHAR: Good to see you.

We`ll be back after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D.C. DOUGLAS, ACTOR: I was so impressed I switched to Geico and saved over $600.

JOAN RIVERS, COMEDIAN: I was very happy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Geico, real service, real savings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Hear that beautiful voice? That was actor D.C. Douglas who was fired by Geico for drunk-dialing Tea Party representatives and leaving them nasty messages. Those dulcet tones must sound really great on the unemployment line, don`t you think? D.C. Douglas is here with me now.

Hello. How are you?

DOUGLAS: Hi. I`m the guy who is going, "Excuse me, can I cut in line here," in the unemployment line?

BEHAR: Yes. But you`ll sound good doing it.

DOUGLAS: Thank you.

BEHAR: Now, what`s your problem with the Tea Party anyway? Tell me what you did.

DOUGLAS: Well, during the health care weekend, the final weekend when they were all out there and protesting and what have you and it got kind of crazy, there were racial epithets allegedly thrown at senators and Congressmen and also Barney Frank being called a slur as well.

And I`m -- I hate bullying and so I got on the phone -- I wasn`t drunk. That`s actually kind of a joke on the PSA we have out there. But I was actually just upset. I know that Freedom Works is this (INAUDIBLE) organization that pretends to be grassroots and I knew that they were behind it. So -- behind a lot of these Tea Party people being there and also the fringe elements coming to these Tea Parties.

So I called them up and just inquired as to their intelligence level and what kind of PR plan they had when one of the members did cross the line and got violent. I used mentally retarded as a phrase in the clinical sense. Obviously, they didn`t like it.

And I do apologize for using the phrase for people who took it as a pejorative. I simply meant it as a loaded question and a little sarcastic.

Anyway, they called back three weeks later, 2 1/2 weeks later, illegally recorded a follow-up call with me to verify who I was but they didn`t tell me they were recording. I, of course, didn`t care at that point. I was ready to move on, do other things. I figured they had to go brew some tea or something.

They recorded it and then they I guess waited another week and then I had recorded a new campaign for Geico, posted on my Facebook page, was very excited about that. The very next morning, they posted on biggovernment.com my voicemail, conflated me with the voice of the gecko and the 15 minute guy. I`m neither of those guys and apologies to those guys -- I`m really sorry.

And they posted my phone number and said, please why don`t you give him a call and Geico a call and let them know that you`re not a mentally retarded killer. So of course, I got inundated with phone calls all day and hateful e-mails and whatnot.

BEHAR: You did.

DOUGLAS: And I`m assuming -- oh yes -- I`m assuming Geico did as well. The next day a good friend of mine told me that he had just been called in for an audition for the campaign I just recorded. So we pretty much knew, aha, they let me go.

And of course, we waited a couple of days. It turned out it was definitely I was now off the campaign. I could have let it go and just gone on my way but it just seemed so wrong. So I put out a press release to let everybody know about Freedom Works and the kind of tactics they use.

BEHAR: The PSA, yes; which we have.

DOUGLAS: Well, first, I put out a -- great, great, great. It started with a press release and it has now come to this.

BEHAR: Let`s show it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUGLAS: I learned the hard way how wrong it is to drunk-dial a cynical GOP-funded astro-turf organization that`s headed by a man with Dick in his name. Leaving a sarcastic voicemail message should get me black listed. Plus it just upsets the cheerleaders at school, I mean Megan and Monica at Fox News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: This could give you a nice boost to your career, you know that? You are an actor, right?

DOUGLAS: Yes, I am. I`m also a film and TV actor as well.

BEHAR: I think that this is great publicity for you.

DOUGLAS: Bless you.

BEHAR: You regret though that you said mentally retarded, you should.

DOUGLAS: Yes.

BEHAR: That was a bad idea. Other than that, it was quite amusing, actually and they deserved it.

DOUGLAS: Well, thank you Joy. By the way, my girlfriend loves you.

BEHAR: That`s nice. Ok. Thanks. Thanks for joining me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Rima Fakih, the new Miss USA is under fire. Some right- wingers claim she won the title because she`s Muslim. Others are complaining about internet photos of her pole dancing but she`s fully clothed by the way. Now what is wrong with these people? It`s a contest, not a caucus so calm down. Here to discuss this and more are Paul Provenza, comedian and co-author of "Satiristas". Caroline Schafer, executive editor of "US Weekly" and Andy Cohen host of Bravo, "WATCH WHAT HAPPENS, LIVE." This is FOX`s, Gretchen Carlson wondered if she won only because she was a Muslim.

ANDY COHEN, BRAVO`S SVP ORIGINAL PROGRAMMING: You say FOX`s? That`s a shock.

BEHAR: But she`s wondering because the PC police like the idea of a Muslim Miss USA. What do you make of that, Andy?

COHEN: Well, if the PC police means Johnny Weir and Tara Connor who were the judges at Miss USA - then I mean it`s ridiculous. First of all, these are among -- these are two people who were the judges. Second of all, was Gretchen Carlson hired at FOX because she`s blonde? Was Michelle Malkin, who also talked about this, hired because she`s Asian? It doesn`t --

BEHAR: That`s a good point. That`s a very good point about FOX hiring blondes.

PAUL PROVENZA: I mean any of this might have some credence if not for the fact that this woman who won is a knockout!

BEHAR: I know she is.

CAROLINE SCHAEFER, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, US WEEKLY: Total knock out.

PROVENZA I don`t care if she`s from mars, that woman is hot.

BEHAR: All right. Down boy.

PROVENZA: This makes me more upset about the way Muslims treat women because they really shouldn`t be hiding this under burqas.

BEHAR: Trust me Paul they don`t all look like this.

PROVENZA: Oh, I don`t know. We don`t really know, do we?

BEHAR: You know Miss Oklahoma, who is a beautiful blonde, lost. And Michelle Malkin, who is to the Right of Attila the Hun, she said that it was because she didn`t come out against the Arizona law about immigration. And she was sort of --

SCHAEFER: She came out in support of it actually.

BEHAR: Well she came out in support of the immigration law in Arizona but also said she`s against racial profiling.

SHAEFER: Right.

PROVENZA: I`m sorry. I just have to say something. Do you understand we`re talking about things like immigration, we are talking about things like Muslim relations with America in the context of a beauty pageant? I just want to make that clear.

BEHAR: Well Miss America was always I want world peace and a new outfit. You don`t remember that?

PROVENZA: Nobody cares what happens at a beauty pageant. But then again I don`t understand why all of a sudden it mattered what the Queen of England thought or felt about something, and, yet it changed that country. I don`t understand why we care what has at a beauty pageant. The only people who should be concerned is from a feminist standpoint. That`s the only reason beauty pageants matter or anybody should get upset about it.

BEHAR: What`s your response? You`re a woman.

SCHAEFER: Well I mean I think obviously these women are there because they want to be in the beauty pageant, they want to be Miss USA. And you know, that`s what they`re there for. They`re not there to make a political statement I don`t think.

PROVENZA: Yes, so how has it turned into that?

(CROSSTALK)

SHAEFER: By all the people angry about the fact that a Muslim --

BEHAR: It started with Carrie Prejean.

COHEN: It did, here`s what. They`re trying to make some viral video moments and they ask these women who are not the brightest bulbs on Broadway what they think about the immigration law and health care and all this other stuff that they truly don`t know anything about and that`s fine because they`re in a Victoria`s secret pageant.

BEHAR: But you know what I think that`s sexist what you just said because just because these girls are beautiful doesn`t mean they don`t know anything about it.

COHEN: Did you hear their answers to the questions.

(CROSSTALK)

PROVENZA: They actually don`t.

COHEN: No but they don`t.

SHAEFER: Point is they`re there to become Miss USA, not, you know, to be the next political candidate.

BEHAR: Miss America contest was always questions about what do you think about, you know, Africa and other countries.

SHAEFER: Right.

PROVENZA: Yes, but nobody ever listened.

BEHAR: Yes, they did, we did, listen.

COHEN: They were broader questions. These are very specific policy questions that they were being asked. In fairness --

BEHAR: Well I mean they should know about that. Just because you look good in a bathing suit doesn`t mean you shouldn`t know about the Arizona immigration law. You should know it. Otherwise you don`t deserve the title. My opinion.

PROVENZA: All right, OK, that should definitely be one of the rules in the pageant -

BEHAR: Yes, yes.

PROVENZA: Signup sheet, I agree. You should be able to at least to bring together --

BEHAR: And also the Miss USA group, they sanction those lingerie photos -- lingerie photos rather

PROVENZA: The best move they ever made.

BEHAR: And then criticizing this girl for taking pole dancing--

SHAEFER: It`s such a double standard, it`s unbelievable.

BEHAR: OK just a quick point before we move on. Newly counseled Rima Fakih will be on my show tomorrow. So tune in to get her take. Right here --

PROVENZA: You purposely put me on with them and not with her.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I`m torturing you. What`s wrong with you, you are next to a beautiful woman.

SHAEFER: Hey!

PROVENZA: She`s gorgeous, she`s gorgeous -

COHEN: But I have not seen her pole dance.

SHAEFER: And I`m not in a swim suit so - next week.

COHEN: It`s early in the show.

PROVENZA: It`s true.

SHAEFER: It`s only may.

BEHAR: OK so here`s another story. Charlie sheen also known as the guy who put a knife to his wife`s neck.

COHEN: Yes, yes.

BEHAR: He just negotiated his "TWO AND A HALF MEN" contract for $2 million an episode I understand. Now he`s trying to negotiate smoking privileges in this Aspen jail, this country club jail he`s in. Does that make you get a little envious of the guy? Two million dollars a week?

PROVENZA: I just feel it`s important to point out $2 million for an episode of "TWO AND A HALF MEN" that is like $4 million a joke.

BEHAR: So you don`t like the show I take it?

PROVENZA: I don`t care much for the show.

SHAEFER: I think it`s unbelievable. He`s like Teflon. He can have all the scandal in the world in his life but for some reason his career continues to be on the uptick.

BEHAR: Why, tell me why.

PROVENZA: Because he does so much good for the world.

BEHAR: No he doesn`t.

SHAEFER: We got to know him on Ferris Bueller in Ferris Bueller Days` Off in that movie, he was a bad boy. And we come to expect that he`s going to be bad over and over again.

BEHAR: So why do we keep rewarding him with money?

PROVENZA: I`ll tell you why, because Martin Sheen knows people.

BEHAR: Oh is that it?

PROVENZA: That`s why.

BEHAR: I think it`s because he still gets numbers, right Andy?

COHEN: He does.

BEHAR: That`s it.

COHEN: It`s a business. The show makes a ton of money. Obviously CBS wouldn`t make this huge deal with him if it wasn`t going to keep making money.

SHAEFER: If people aren`t watching, yes.

PROVENZA: But your question is motivated by this guy in this situation now where perhaps he committed very heinous misogynistic crime -

BEHAR: Yes.

PROVENZA: And are we not rewarding that and ignoring that -

BEHAR: That`s right.

PROVENZA: But that presupposes the television industry has morality or ethics.

BEHAR: And they don`t.

PROVENZA: And it has nothing to do with that.

BEHAR: Well.

PROVENZA: He gets the ratings, you give him the money. The one thing has nothing to do with the other.

BEHAR: Well it should, shouldn`t it a little bit.

PROVENZA: Well yes and no because he has not been proven guilty and we still live in America.

BEHAR: The wife did not press charges.

PROVENZA: Did it go to trial? We`re now doing something that we all decry which is pillorying someone before we --

BEHAR: That`s true, that`s true. Try pillory. I hate that pillorying. It upsets my digestive tract.

PROVENZA: I hate it almost as much as pole dancing. Did you ever get pilloried on a pole you danced on?

BEHAR: Go ahead Andy, what were you going to finish up here.

COHEN: I was just going to say it`s interesting that there has been so much innuendo -

BEHAR: Yes.

COHEN: And rumor about him for so many years. This is the last in a long line and nobody cares. The show does great. It`s a top ten show.

BEHAR: Yes.

COHEN: It`s one of CBS`s biggest hits. So it is interesting that nobody cares.

BEHAR: Yes.

PROVENZA: We live in a different world. It`s no longer the world where like a fatty Arbuckle thing can happen.

BEHAR: Yes.

PROVENZA: It seems like the most infamous thing could happen and you know all of a sudden you`re hit with a different crowd.

BEHAR: Fatty Arbuckle who molested young boys or girls?

PROVENZA: Oh that`s wrong now?

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I forgot. Girls, it was girls. We also live in Woody Allen`s world who recently said President Obama should be a dictator and is also backing Roman Polansky, no surprise there. And says that he should be let off the hook as something --

PROVENZA: Well you know they meet on the same website.

BEHAR: I`ll bet they did. But I mean what about -

PROVENZA: I think it was sexoffender.com.

BEHAR: Woody Allen is in favor of a dictatorship?

COHEN: Well didn`t we just come out of a dictatorship? I mean like - -

BEHAR: That`s the point. I don`t think that Woody Allen would say President Bush would be a dictator.

COHEN: Well exactly. If your guy is in you want him to be a dictator. When Bush is in you don`t --

PROVENZA: But I mean maybe we are taking too literally and maybe using hyperbole. But really that statement is the same one Bill Maher makes all the time, which is, if Obama had the resolve and one-sidedness -

BEHAR: Yes.

PROVENZA: And he believed in what he was doing enough to not care about having bipartisan, he would get a liberal agenda done. So really it`s kind of the same statement but, you know, presented in a different way.

BEHAR: Well no, it`s not the same thing.

PROVENZA: Well what he is saying is if he took control.

BEHAR: Yes.

PROVENZA: And did what he wanted to do rather than try to -

BEHAR: Become the decider.

PROVENZA: Become the decider -

(CROSSTALK)

PROVENZA: It really is the same philosophy that Bill has been espousing as well.

BEHAR: I see.

SHAEFER: I think it is worth noting that this is an interview he gave to a Spanish newspaper, and FOX, translated it so who knows what he actually said.

PROVENZA: And you know, and you know how FOX respects the Spanish language. So you know -

BEHAR: So now Jonathan Reese Meyers who I really love as - did you see the "Tutors" -

SHAEFER: Yes.

BEHAR: He`s fabulous in the "Tutors"

PROVENZA: Right.

BEHAR: He is nothing like words like Henry the VIII. The real Henry the VIII was a fat slob -

PROVENZA: Yes.

BEHAR: With red hair and skim - food coming out of his mouth.

PROVENZA: But you know, Henry -

BEHAR: Jonathan is sexy and hot.

PROVENZA: Henry the VIII is not allowed to fly on United either.

BEHAR: No but anyway, he was on United Airlines and he was drunk apparently. You know he`s had issues with substance abuse.

SHAEFER: Yes, he`s been on rehab twice.

BEHAR: But he used the n word against the United Airlines employees and now he can`t go on United anymore. I was so disappointed that he would do that. When Mel Gibson says something anti-Semitic, he must expect his father is a holocaust and iron and god knows the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree. But Jonathan Reese, I was so disappointed, I don`t know, how about you?

PROVENZA: Well you know I`m always disappointed when I see that kind of ugliness come out of somebody. My first question was, was he making some kind of a joke? You know because -

BEHAR: No I don`t think so. He was drunk.

PROVENZA: Maybe he was on the phone with Michael Richards and said, look, what do I say? I don`t know.

BEHAR: Another bargain, Michele Richard.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Go ahead Caroline, get in here.

SHAEFER: Yes it`s disguising, he was drunk. He was drinking Vodka before 6:00 a.m. I mean it is unclear exactly if he just said it in a sort of off-hand remark.

BEHAR: Well.

SHAEFER: Not directing it at somebody. But it still not OK, it`s still not OK. It`s not OK.

BEHAR: Well I drink Vodka sometimes and I never use words like that.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Inveno verista.

SHAEFER: That`s right.

BEHAR: If you are in New York, you can catch Paul Provenza at the Gotham Comedy Club, tomorrow night. Up next the lovely Teri Hatcher joins me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: She`s best known for her Emmy-nominated role as Susan Meyer on "DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES." now Teri Hatcher is reaching out to other busy women with her new advice and lifestyle website gethatched.com, is that right?

TERI HATCHER, ACTRESS, "DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES": Yes gethatched

BEHAR: A chick`s guide to life. I`m pleased to welcome to my show, Teri Hatcher. That`s so cute, get hatched.

HATCHER: Thank you.

BEHAR: gethatched.

HATCHER: Yes.

BEHAR: Reaching out to other chicks. I get it.

HATCHER: Yes. Good. No, you get it, right?

BEHAR: I get it.

HATCHER: And I love the idea of a chick. To me a chick is -- I always think of chick as hip and cool and been around and not afraid of things and feels things passionate. I like that.

BEHAR: It`s so P.I. to call women chicks. Call me a chick any time you want.

HATCHER: I don`t know but I`m reinventing it, I`m rehatching, chick.

BEHAR: Oh, OK, so tell me what it is.

HATCHER: OK. I got this opportunity from Disney`s family.com. They are already the number one mom sort of website area. And I don`t know. I think at my age and feeling like you can reflect on your life as a woman and all the things that sort of make you, you, which part of that is being a mom. But then there`s this time when you start to recognize I`m more than a mom or you want to reinvent yourself or you realize that your life isn`t as fun as it should be or you might want it to be. And so it`s sort of about offering women a community to celebrate that, to celebrate all the sides of being a woman, to inspire them, offer them advice, entertainment, humor.

BEHAR: I see. So me time.

HATCHER: Yes. Me time.

BEHAR: A little me time.

HATCHER: Me time and not feeling guilty about it.

BEHAR: So you give people advice and tell people things like try this, try that.

HATCHER: I give some advice. There`s a panel of some great experts, some of whom have been friends of mine for 20 years and some of whom are experts from journalism and different fields of expertise --

BEHAR: But it is mostly geared to women.

HATCHER: Yes.

BEHAR: I mean -

HATCHER: Although, although, we were shooting -- one of the things is a show that I do in my house called "IN THE HOUSE" where I interview celebrities. And we were shooting an episode of that. And one of the guy crew members talked to me afterwards and he said, you know, I really feel like that. And we had been talking about those moments when you have a day where you just sort of have malaise and you can`t motivate to do anything and how do you pull yourself out of that.

BEHAR: Besides drugs and medication you mean.

HATCHER: Exactly.

BEHAR: How do you do that?

HATCHER: You stay in your bed an can`t even call a girlfriend. One of the women came up with the idea to when you`re not in that dark place to write down things. Call a friend, go to Starbucks, whatever. Rip them up and put them in a drawer and when you`re in the dark place pick one out and make a deal that you`ll do that.

BEHAR: I see.

HATCHER: So it`s that kind of thing.

BEHAR: If you`re not in clinical depression,, I guess you can do that. But --

HATCHER: If you`re in a clinical depression, I hope you`re seeing a doctor.

BEHAR: Exactly. But it`s so interesting there`s so many magazines for women that tells you wear your hair like this, how to make a man fall in love with you. What`s the best orgasm. You never see anything like that for men. They have no interest in advice or counseling. Why?

HATCHER: I don`t think that`s true. Based on -- they just don`t talk about it. This guy on this cruise said this same thing. When I talked to him he said none of my guys will tell me things like that.

BEHAR: They don`t have the conversation.

HATCHER: They have the feelings and there are the men`s health magazines.

BEHAR: I talk to my spousal equivalent and he`ll go out with his friends and I`ll say what did you talk about? Thegame. Did you ask him about the fact that his wife was cheating on him last year. No, no, no, that doesn`t come up.

HATCHER: Right.

BEHAR: Nothing real comes up. It`s female.

HATCHER: They feel it but just don`t talk about it.

BEHAR: Now one of the features of the website is called chick chat where you have conversations with women via Skype. Let`s look at how that goes.

HATCHER: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HATCHER: Would you rather have eight hours of really great sex or eight hours of really great sleep?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who wants to have sex for eight hours?

(LAUGHTER)

HATCHER: I think as a mom, you`re just like, I`ll take the great eight minutes and check please. Let me get back to the laundry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, totally, really. I don`t care if it`s followed by eight hours of sleep and a pedicure and a hot fudge sundae. That`s just too much sex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: What about these guys that have an eight-hour erection? What do you do with them?

HATCHER: Oh that`s wow, you send them out to hold up a tent flag. I don`t know. I don`t know what you do with that. That`s sad for them.

BEHAR: You know --

HATCHER: That`s too long.

BEHAR: But it`s interesting that you know, eight hours of sex, no woman wants to be bothered with that. You know there`s a new study that says that Americans over the age of 45 -- they don`t really -- the women are not that thrilled with sex lives but the women are. Well Viagra, hello. That`s one of the reasons. But they also say they`re open -- they`re far more open to sex outside the marriage. Women and men over 45. Do you find that interesting that -- what is that?

HATCHER: I do. I think there`s a lot of things going on there. I think sex is a great way to connect and a great way to be intimate. And I think women at that age do still want that. But I think there is something about when you`re at that point in life. I mean, I can understand -- you know how you have a bigger perspective on what`s important and what`s not important?

BEHAR: Yes well you had a few near experiences.

HATCHER: Yes all of that.

BEHAR: Yes.

HATCHER: And you`ve seen lots of friends go through lots of really tragic things and difficult things.

BEHAR: Yes.

HATCHER: And so things that feel like a big deal like, okay, there was some extramarital something or other -

BEHAR: Yes.

HATCHER: You know maybe it isn`t - doesn`t have the immediate when you`re younger you`re just like forget it, that you might consider it and consider -- that`s what I think.

BEHAR: I see.

HATCHER: Not that I approve of it.

BEHAR: Maybe after 45 you maybe after 45 you know that life is short you might as well do it now.

HATCHER: With whoever.

BEHAR: You`ll never get to do it after that. Stay right there. We`ll be back with more from the lovely Teri Hatcher after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with Teri Hatcher. OK, now, what was the last episode about on "DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES?"

HATCHER: Well we just had our finale, and so it`s really -- we`re committed to it. Susan and Mike are moving away from Wisteria Lane.

BEHAR: Stop it.

HATCHER: Yes. I feel --

BEHAR: Where are you going to go?

HATCHER: We`re going to the other side of town to some -- this isn`t cable, right? I can`t say it. You know, like some bleepity bleep little apartment. And you know, we are having to downsize. I think that`s relatable in our country right now.

BEHAR: Yes.

HATCHER: But as the actress, you know, I -- I love Wisteria Lane. We shoot at the top of universal on the top of the hill and it really is -- it looks like a beautiful neighborhood.

BEHAR: Yes.

HATCHER: And I did say to Mark Terry, you know, so I`m not going to get to shoot in that pretty yellow house anymore? Like, for how long? You know? And where`s this crappy apartment going to be? You know, whatever. Van Eyes or something? Not that there`s anything wrong with --

BEHAR: No, not Van Eyes -

HATCHER: Wait not that there`s anything wrong with Van Eyes -

BEHAR: You just picked it because it`s a funny sounding -- here`s some of the things that have happened to you on "DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES." OK?

HATCHER: See if I recognize this.

BEHAR: See if you recommend any of these.

HATCHER: I`ll hit the button.

BEHAR: Having a stripper move into your house.

HATCHER: Yes, did happened.

BEHAR: OK, using arson to ward off potential mistresses.

HATCHER: Did I do that?

BEHAR: Remember that? Yes. Falling in love with someone whose wife is in a coma.

HATCHER: Falling in love with someone -- what? OK. I`m -- I`m -- now I`m derailed. So yes, sure.

BEHAR: You don`t remember that. Falling in love with someone whose wife is in a coma.

HATCHER: I don`t remember that. Maybe that was -- god, that was a few years ago.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: You cannot keep up with these crazy plots.

HATCHER: All I remember is being locked out of my house naked and falling into the bushes. That happened the second episode of the entire show.

BEHAR: Somebody wants to know on twitter -

HATCHER: OK.

BEHAR: That would you ever do a nude scene?

HATCHER: I don`t think so.

BEHAR: OK.

HATCHER: I have done a few in the past, not particularly thrilled to have them in my history.

BEHAR: No.

HATCHER: And especially now with a daughter. I don`t think that`s necessary.

BEHAR: This one says --

HATCHER: I barely do nude scenes in my own house.

BEHAR: You know what I always say, for a man to see me naked I have to be in his will.

HATCHER: Right. I`m with you there.

BEHAR: So what does Teri Hatcher do to make herself cry so easily? I love this question because that`s, to me, is very mysterious how actresses can start bawling at the last minute or the drop --

HATCHER: Wouldn`t it be great if I could do it right now?

BEHAR: Could you do it?

HATCHER: I almost could.

BEHAR: What do you have to do to think of it, to do it?

HATCHER: You know, that`s so funny. I`m pausing because Mark Cherry actually noticed that about me and wrote a scene with, there was a scene with Edi and Susan in the basement --

BEHAR: don`t turn this thing off now. She`s going to cry.

HATCHER: No, I`m not.

BEHAR: You`re not going to do it? Come on, Teri.

HATCHER: I`m really trying.

BEHAR: Try, Teri.

HATCHER: It`s too hard. Look, they`re welling up.

BEHAR: Your eyes are welling up. Camera on her eyes. Look, she`s crying.

HATCHER: Oh, I love it.

BEHAR: look at that.

HATCHER: That is so great. Oh my god.

BEHAR: There, tears, they actually rolled. You can touch them.

HATCHER: I can`t get over her.

BEHAR: And the Oscar goes to -- oh my god. It`s brilliant.

HATCHER: That doesn`t make me talented in way.

BEHAR: Yes, it does. That`s so great.

HATCHER: Look at that.

BEHAR: that`s without any --

HATCHER: I`m tearing.

BEHAR: Thank you so much for that wonderful acting experience we just had with you. Teri`s website is gethatch.com. Sounds like a lot of fun. To check it out. Good night, everybody.

END