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Rick's List

Connecticut Attorney General Accused of Lying; Republican Congressman Souder Announces Resignation; Basketball and Politics; Arizona Immigration Law; Suspicious Package Found in Atlanta

Aired May 18, 2010 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Poppy Harlow has got her list. It involves how the Dow is going to finish today. And there's a new system for getting copies of your credit score.

What gives, Poppy?

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: There may be.

This is part of that big Wall Street reform package I feel like we have been talking about for over a year now, Rick. It's still sitting on the Senate floor, certainly not law yet. But, if it does become law, here's why it's going to matter to you, for one reason. And that's your credit score.

You need this to get a mortgage, a home, any kind of loan. And a lot of employers, most of them, look at this. Right now, you have to pay the major credit reporting agencies, you have to pay them $15 to get this score. You get your report for free, but not the score.

What the Senate passed in this amendment is that you would get this for free if you're denied credit or a job, where it gets important, because it tells you where you stand financially. And, again, it's another way of being more transparent and having these companies open up and give you that information for free, if you're denied credit or you're denied a job because of that credit score.

That's a big deal. Wall Street is not watching that today, Rick. We're down 113 points at the close here. The market was up for half the day, down now. Why is this? Huge concerns still about the debt crisis in Europe, Rick.

And what we just saw is that the euro fell. That currency, that key currency, fell to a four-year low against the dollar today. And oil sold off in a big way to a seven-month low, a lot of concerns. Look at this volatile market, down 200 points yesterday, up 90 points this morning, down 105 or so -- 114 points or so right now, Rick, so a lot of volatility still continuing.

SANCHEZ: Thanks a lot, Poppy.

And probably this doesn't help them either. Look at the situation that's going on in the Gulf. In fact, we learned today that it's now down to 20 percent, essentially. That's about one-fifth of the Gulf that you're not allowed to fish in anymore because of this oil spill. That's just one of the stories we're following. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Here's what's making the LIST on this day.

BP says the size of the oil spill in the Gulf is irrelevant. Irrelevant?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It's truly come to the point that BP has to be held accountable.

SANCHEZ: Balls of tar found in the Florida Keys, but is it from the spill? We're drilling down.

REP. MARK SOUDER (R), INDIANA: I'm sick of politicians who drag their spouses up in front of the cameras, rather than confronting the problem that they have caused.

SANCHEZ: This is a U.S. congressman from Indiana. Why is he crying? And where's his wife? I will tell you.

Connecticut's A.G. running for Senate says he served in Vietnam. Uh-oh. Guess what? Not true.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much more can we spend?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so irritated.

SANCHEZ: Arizona's immigration law has Kobe Bryant caught in the middle between his wife and his coach. Here's a question. What's the law really say and how will it be enforced?

And what is so alluring about that man's shoe? Hey, foxy, what's the deal? In "Fotos."

The lists you need to know about. Who's today's most intriguing? Who's landed on the list you don't want to be on? Who's making news on Twitter? It's why I keep a list.

Pioneering tomorrow's cutting-edge news right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: It's hour two. Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Time to pick up the pace.

You're not going to believe what we have learned within the last hour. Blanche Lincoln has had a bit of an embarrassing moment during her own primary election when she went to vote.

Senator Lincoln shows up to vote, right, for herself today, we would imagine. Watch what happens. Her name shows up on the local voting log, but the log says she's already voted. She voted absentee -- voted absentee -- oops -- and didn't know?

My goodness. So much for that photo-op. You figure Lincoln has got to be having a meltdown, right? But here's a politician for you, big smile, shrug of the shoulders, just a tiny mistake, which is apparently what it was.

Lincoln's staff said she filed for the absentee ballot just in case, but didn't fill it out because she didn't need to. But now, with cameras rolling, she has got to fill out a provisional ballot, with the county clerk at her side. This is how not to stage an Election Day photo opportunity, even if Lincoln later said the practice is commonplace and not unusual.

Really?

All right, let's talk more about these primaries.

Donna Brazile is a Democratic strategist and CNN contributor. Ed Rollins is a Republican strategist and CNN political analyst.

Ed, I want to begin with you. If you were handling her, this would probably be your fault, right?

ED ROLLINS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Of course it would be my fault.

(LAUGHTER)

ROLLINS: You know, I think, to a certain --

(LAUGHTER)

ROLLINS: As Donna will attest, when there are mistakes in a campaign, it's the strategist. When there's great victories, it's the candidate. It's as it should be.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: What was she -- what was she thinking?

ROLLINS: You know, this -- this was an innocent mistake. And I think Mrs. Lincoln probably needs as many votes as she can get. So, if she can vote for herself, all the better.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: Donna, we have talked --

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: We have talked -- leave it to Ed to say something like that on national television.

We have talked about the anger on the right. How much has Lincoln, as a Democrat, felt the ire on the left?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, she's in a -- she's in a very tough primary today. I think she will win this three-person primary and -- and may have to face a runoff in a -- in a few weeks, but there's no question that -- that her on-again/off-again support for health care reform really unnerved some -- some Democrats in the state of Arkansas.

She's facing a very serious challenger, who I think has run on a campaign that -- that she's out of touch. But, look, this is a woman that knows how to win, who knows how to pull together the Democratic coalition. I think she squeaks by. But it's going to be a very tough general election forward. And perhaps she has learned some lessons over the last few months from her base.

SANCHEZ: All right, that's Arkansas. Let's move down to Kentucky, if we could.

Ed, back to you.

Rand Paul, Ron Paul's son in Kentucky, is this the guy who could make the Tea Party viable? And, if you're a Republican, how do you deal with that? Do you embrace or do you kind of shove off a bit?

ROLLINS: No, you definitely -- you definitely embrace.

You know, most of the Tea Partiers want the same thing. They want smaller government. They want less taxes. They want people to pay attention to them that are in Washington. Ron Paul's -- as a candidate, his father, was a very effective candidate who had gigantic volunteer crowds when he ran for president, which moved -- some of them broke off and become the Tea Party.

You know, I think the key thing here is, Paul's opponent is the establishment. It's Mitch McConnell. It's the -- the elected other officials in the state of Kentucky.

SANCHEZ: Mm-hmm.

ROLLINS: And, whoever wins, I think is going to win the general, but I think, certainly, it's a good test for the -- the Republicans --

SANCHEZ: Well --

ROLLINS: -- to know that there's a conservative wing out there.

SANCHEZ: But -- but when you've got --

ROLLINS: It's called the Tea Party.

SANCHEZ: Well, yes, as long as they don't turn into wing nuts.

I mean, you -- and -- and I don't mean that disparaging --

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: -- because there's wing nuts in all parties, as we both know.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: There's certainly wing nuts among Republicans and Democrats and Greenies and everybody else out there.

I'm asking you this because you managed Ross Perot's campaign. You know about trying to translate anger into a political force. It really didn't work that well when Perot. I mean, comparatively speaking, I guess it did. He -- he's --

(CROSSTALK)

ROLLINS: Well, let's -- let me just say, one of my -- one of my political contributions is, I took Ross in six weeks from 39 to 16 percent, with a little help from Ross.

(LAUGHTER)

ROLLINS: But there was a tremendous -- it was a tremendous movement out there. And I think you should never diminish the movement because the candidate sometimes gets off-base.

And I think, to a certain extent, some of these people were Perot supporters. Some of them are Republicans. Some of them are Democrats. Some of them are independents. But, at the end of the day, in a very close election, you basically need everybody.

And Donna will attest to that on her side. And, so, to me, this is -- this is a -- an exercise, not in futility. This is an exercise in voter participation.

SANCHEZ: Well -- well said.

ROLLINS: And whoever wins, we need them -- we need them back. We need them in -- in November if we are going to win this race.

SANCHEZ: All right, now, the last one that we need to talk about is Pennsylvania.

Donna, I will go back to you for this one. The people who are down -- who are taking score, truthfully, who does the White House really want to see win this race in Pennsylvania? Do -- do they want to see the old guy, Arlen Specter, or do they see -- or do they want to see, you know, the new young stud, Joe Sestak, with his admiral medals, et cetera, et cetera?

BRAZILE: Well, I -- I think it's fair to say that the White House is supporting Senator Specter.

Not only did the president record a robo-call. He did some radio advertisement. Vice President Biden visited the state, Governor Ed Rendell. The Democratic establishment is with Arlen Specter.

That said, look, Joe Sestak is a very, very good candidate. He's been able to come on strong in the last couple of weeks. And, remember, before Senator Specter made that switch, he was the guy that everybody was recruiting to run against Specter. So, this is a very interesting race.

Senator Specter really needs a strong turnout in Philadelphia. If he's able to get a strong turnout there, perhaps he can keep the -- the wave down, the anti-incumbent wave.

But there's another race in Pennsylvania.

SANCHEZ: Huh.

BRAZILE: It's the old Murtha district in Pennsylvania 12. That's the real contest today. It features a Republican vs. Democrat. The Republicans are downplaying the race, but, clearly, that is a race to also watch tonight.

SANCHEZ: It reminds me. You know, you're old enough probably to remember -- not you, Donna, by the way, but --

(CROSSTALK)

ROLLINS: But I am.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: -- Ed, you are.

I remember Casey Stengel was once asked -- I was thinking of this while I was listening to Donna's answer -- who do you take if you got to choose between Ted Williams and Stan Musial? And I think, Stengel says, oh, you take one. I will take whatever is left.

I think that's the kind of situation that the White House --

(LAUGHTER)

ROLLINS: But the key -- the key thing here -- and the key thing, I think, is that what -- a lot of anger that the Americans have today, Arlen Specter is the epitome of that.

He's a guy who stayed too long. He couldn't win a Republican primary. He switches party in order to be an opportunist. And I think that's what the country doesn't want. They don't want professional politicians who will do anything today to win.

And, so, I think today is a very loud message, if he loses. He's not my problem anymore. He's the Democrats' problem.

(LAUGHTER)

ROLLINS: But, at the end of the day, he's the -- he's the epitome of opportunism.

(LAUGHTER)

ROLLINS: And I think, to a certain extent, that's what -- that's what the country doesn't like anymore.

SANCHEZ: Well, I'll tell you, I think --

(CROSSTALK)

ROLLINS: And, Donna, we're going to win that -- we're going to win Pennsylvania 12.

SANCHEZ: I just -- I just think that quote says it all.

BRAZILE: Oh, I don't know about that.

SANCHEZ: "He's not my problem anymore."

We will leave -- we will leave it at that.

(LAUGHTER)

SANCHEZ: My thanks to -- to both of you. I always -- I always appreciate the candid conversation. Ed, Donna, we will see you the next time.

Take a look at this.

(CROSSTALK)

ROLLINS: Donna and I love each other.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTER: Our immigrants are under attack. What do we do?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: If you're behind the wheel with a few co-workers in a car in Arizona and an officer stops you for a traffic violation, does that officer have the right to question the immigration status of the people who may be in your car? I mean, is -- is that what the new law says?

Look, what does the law say, not what are people saying about what the law says? What does the law actually say, and how will it be enforced? I spent part of today drilling down on that and making phone calls to try and find out for you. That's coming up.

Also, the Times Square bomb suspect, we're told he had a handful of other targets. What are those targets? What are the other places he had planned to hit? I have got that list for you. And I'm going to share it with you. That's coming up next.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: You know I like to keep a lot of lists around here. And one of the lists that I bring you every day about this time is my roundup list. Ready? Number one, it looks like the guy who allegedly tried and failed to bomb Times Square is about to appear in federal court to face the charges, more than two weeks after he was picked up. CNN has also just learned he may have had his eye on other targets in New York City. A senior counterintelligence official tells CNN that Faisal Shahzad considered attacking Rockefeller Center, Grand Central Station, the World Financial Center, and that he performed surveillance on all of them.

We obtained some e-mails from the investigation that were linked to Shahzad. He wrote that he wanted to strike back at -- quote -- "foreign infidel forces" -- stop quote -- "who oppress Muslims."

Here is number two. All right, look at that. That's the best and clearest picture we have gotten so far of the oil gusher one mile deep in the Gulf of Mexico and the attempt to try and stop it. This video was taken Sunday. We got it here at CNN a little while ago. We're continuing to get more.

You heard Chad a little while ago say that he's going to monitor this for us. He will let us know if there's anything new. But that awful gooey mess is responsible for another punch to people who make their living trying to fish the Gulf. More federal waters have been shut down today, closing commercial fishing, as a main part of the slick spreads to within 50 miles of the coastline.

That means 20 percent of the coast, 19 to 20 percent, is now shut down.

Number three: Vice President Joe Biden's son Beau, he left the hospital today. He was carrying his own son. It is his 4-year-old Hunter. Good for him. The younger Biden had been hospitalized in Philadelphia since last week for a mild stroke. And by the younger Biden, we mean the dad, not the younger, younger Biden.

He told reporters he's glad to be headed to his Wilmington home, where he will recuperate. Beau Biden is only 41 years old. We wish him well. He is Delaware's attorney general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARK SOUDER (R), INDIANA: I wish I could have been a better example.

And here's my statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: A U.S. lawmaker breaks down over infidelity. But he calls out others who have made the same mistake for the way they played it. Well, how did he play it?

Aside from the crying, which you will see a lot of, by the way, what else did he do that was different? I will tell you.

Also, liar, liar, pants on fire. Guess who gets called out today for the list that you don't want to be on? Hint, he's a U.S. candidate -- a candidate for the U.S. Senate, but misstated his war record.

That's next. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: There are so many parts to follow in this story about the oil in the Gulf of Mexico. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that there just seems to have been a lot of deception. There seems to have been a lot of stuff that went on that shouldn't have happened.

And the bigger part of the story is that we also need to follow the spill itself. And with each -- it's incremental. With each passing hour, we get new information.

And Chad is telling us: I got something to show you.

What do you got?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Governor Jindal's flyover today, here's what he saw.

South of Venice, you know, there are no roads here.

SANCHEZ: Uh-huh.

MYERS: You -- you can't walk here. This is not like beach.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MYERS: But that is oil. That is now oil.

SANCHEZ: Right -- right there?

MYERS: All the way through here, thick oil along the shore. According to --

SANCHEZ: And what is -- and what is that shoreline?

MYERS: That --

SANCHEZ: That's Louisiana?

MYERS: You know what? That -- that's Louisiana. And I have it on Google Earth here in a second.

But this is the oil that we have seen. We have seen a lot of sheen, you know, like when you -- you get two drops of gasoline into the lake when you're gassing up your boat?

SANCHEZ: Right.

MYERS: And it looks like a big rainbow.

SANCHEZ: Very -- very familiar with that.

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: And you go, oh, sorry I did that, right? And -- and that's just kind of how it goes.

But, here, now this is thick oil, thick oil that is being caught or not caught around the booms here, and so back up and down. This is the impact. Now 29 miles of shoreline has been affected by oil in Louisiana.

And, you know, you think the booms are working? Well, it doesn't work when they don't come together right there. So -- and, so, as the oil is kind of slashing on through --

SANCHEZ: So -- so, the significance and the difference, the import, the newsworthiness here is, we're actually seeing not that sheen or remnants of oil. This is, by golly, real oil.

MYERS: Real oil.

SANCHEZ: Right.

MYERS: Let's go to Google Earth. And I will show you where this is.

South of Venice, this is where our crews have been the whole time, Venice, Louisiana. It's as far as you can drive into the Gulf of Mexico. You literally can't go any farther than -- than this. You go 10 miles south of how far you can't drive anymore, and then you get to this point in time, and this point in the -- in the ocean, and this is the estuary.

There would be redfish in here. There would be all kinds of other -- well, there -- there would have been.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

MYERS: Because, now, with oil that's like this --

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: So, crawfish, shrimp, small fish, bait fish, all that?

MYERS: Right. Yes. I thought we were going to try to get this in here, so I could show you Google Earth.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But the point is, that stuff is going to die?

MYERS: Absolutely. It's dead.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

All right. You may have thought the list you don't want to be on is sometimes extremely clear, perceptible, easy to understand. Today's is.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

You know what spinning is, right? Spinning is when you kind of bend the truth to you favor. And then there's just flat-out lying.

Well, what you're about to see is lying, followed by spinning. Let's do the list you don't want to be on.

"The New York Times" reports today that Richard Blumenthal, the Connecticut attorney general who wants to replace Senator Chris Dodd, lied about serving in Vietnam.

First, listen to this clip they posted on their Web site today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D), CONNECTICUT ATTORNEY GENERAL: We have learned something important since the days that I served in Vietnam. And you exemplify it. Whatever we think about the war, whatever we call it, Afghanistan or Iraq, we owe our military men and women unconditional support. And we owe it to them not only while they're away, but when they come home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: "Since the day I served in Vietnam." Let me repeat that, for those of you who have been tweeting me saying, well, that's not what he meant. He said, "since the day I served in Vietnam." Pretty clear to me.

Not clear to you? "The Times" reports that Blumenthal even said in one speech that he served during the Vietnam era, and that he recalls the taunts and the insults.

So, he may have worn a Marine Corps uniform and handled the difficult and respectable jobs of giving out toys to children, for example, through the Marine Corps's Toys For Tots program. This is a great program, one for which I was a media spokesperson in South Florida one time.

But I did not serve in Vietnam, and neither did Richard Blumenthal. In fact, he took five deferments to avoid, apparently, going to Vietnam. And then he joined the Reserve, known to anyone who lived through that era as the process used by the rich or the connected as a way of avoiding going to Vietnam.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLUMENTHAL: I may have misspoken -- I did misspeak -- on a few occasions out of hundreds that I have attended, whether events or ceremonies. And I will not allow anyone to take a few of those misplaced words and impugn my record of service.

I regret that I misspoke on those occasions. I take full responsibility for it. But I am going to continue to fight for veterans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Surrounding himself with real veterans today. In fact, that was just a few hours ago, before we went on the air. We have been monitoring this -- this -- this news all day long.

He surrounded himself with these veterans, who -- who vouched for how dedicated he is to them. He did that -- that -- that, nor them, nor their presence together, changed the story. He may like and work for and respect veterans. Nobody has doubted that. But that doesn't make him a combat veteran himself.

In fact, what it still makes him is a liar -- a liar. And, for that, Richard Blumenthal, Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate, is number one on today's list that you don't want to be on.

These are protesters who have showed up today. They are protesting against Arizona's new immigration law. It's interesting, because it happened after the Los Angeles coach Phil Jackson came out and made a statement. Then, there was another statement made by Kobe Bryant's wife. We're -- we're -- we're going to reconcile both of those for you in just a little bit.

And there's a lot more we need to tell you about. Also, why is this congressman crying, I mean crying out loud? It has to do with how he treated his wife and who he reportedly chose to not bring with him to the news conference. You will hear it for yourself, tears and all.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Topping now our embattled list: I got word early this morning that Indiana Republican Mark Souder would be resigning this -- his seat in Congress.

Hmm, I thought. Not running for election, now, that's one thing. Outright quitting means there's more to the story. What is going on?

Sure enough, I want you to watch now and listen to Mark Souder, first elected to Congress in the Republican revolution of 1994.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOUDER: I think it will be self-explanatory. I'm not really going to do any questions. I'm going to have difficulty getting through it.

"It is with great regret I announce that I am resigning from the U.S. House of Representatives, as well as resigning as a Republican nominee for Congress in this fall's election. I believe it is the best decision for my family, the people of Northeast Indiana, and our country.

It has been a privilege to be a part of the battle for freedom and the values we share. It has been a great honor to fight for the needs, the jobs, and the future of this region, where my family has lived for over 160 years.

I sinned against God, my wife, and my family by having a mutual relationship with a part-time member of my staff. In the poisonous environment of Washington, D.C., any personal failing is seized upon, twisted for political gain.

I am resigning, rather than put my family through a painful, drawn-out process of which any legal question would have been clearly resolved and I would have been exonerated. But the political price to pay and the personal price to my family was not worth it.

Diane and my family were more than willing to stand here with me. We are a committed family. But the error is mine and I should bear the responsibility. And quite frankly, I'm sick of politicians who drag their spouses in front of the cameras, rather than confronting the problem that they caused.

As I leave public office, my plans are focused upon repairing my marriage, earning back the trust of my family, and renewing my walk with my lord. I humbly ask you, for the sake of my family, that you respect our privacy in this difficult time."

I have no further comments.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: This can be said about the congressman -- he came clean.

Watch this.

More of these immigration law protests. This is Arizona.

Why is there still confusion over the law? What does it really say? Not what others say it says. What does it really say? How will it be enforced?

That's what I'm going to drill down on because you asked me to. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Wow. We're getting so many tweets from people who have commented on what's going on in the news today, but I wanted to let you know about this. Will the anger from the Tea Party movement be reflected at the polls today? Will we see it in these four primaries that CNN is carefully monitoring for you?

A political summary of what's at stake, that's ahead for you.

Also, protesters take aim at the head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers for not taking a stand at Arizona's new immigration law. But I'll tell you who did take a stand -- Kobe's wife. This is interesting.

If you're Kobe Bryant, do you listen to? Do you listen to your coach or do you listen to your wife? I know who I'd listen to, but I'll save my answer for when we come back, Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right.

SANCHEZ: We'll look forward to it.

Stay right there, folks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: She covers the trending topics, the hot topics. She is Brooke Baldwin. And boy, does she have a list for you.

Basketball and politics?

BALDWIN: Do they mix? Do they not?

SANCHEZ: You tell me.

BALDWIN: That is for you to judge. You be the judge when I take you to L.A., to the Staples Center, for this story.

It is game one, Western Conference Finals. You have the L.A. Lakers playing against the Phoenix Suns. So, in addition to the star- studded crowd we all expect at the Staples Center, well, you also have some protesters outside that target Lakers' coach Phil Jackson.

He made news recently, making some comment to an ESPN.com writer that seemed to some to support Arizona's controversial immigration law. Paraphrasing him, he initially said Arizona did not usurp federal immigration laws, just gave it some teeth to be able to enforce it.

SANCHEZ: So he's not saying I'm for it, he's just --

BALDWIN: He's not saying I'm for it, he's not saying I'm against it. He's just saying a little something. And the people who are very much against it, none too pleased, including about --

SANCHEZ: The guy with the beard there.

BALDWIN: -- a couple dozen people outside of the Staples Center.

So, ahead of yesterday's game, Mr. Jackson did clarify his remarks. And here is what -- this is a formal statement he actually released. "I have respect for those who oppose the new Arizona immigration law, but I am weary of putting entire sports organizations in the middle of political controversies. This was the message of my statement. I know others feel differently, in the Lakers organization, but it was a personal statement in this regard. It is my wish that the statement not be used" -- kind of to your point -- "by either side to rally activists."

SANCHEZ: Yes, but that's not fair. You know, it's easy -- I just defended him, now I'm going to criticize him. It's easy for him to say that.

The reason this started is because Los Suns, the Phoenix Suns, they put out a new uniform in Spanish because they don't want -- look, they're business guys. Half the population of Phoenix -- maybe not half. My numbers may be off, but there's a lot of people in Phoenix who are Hispanic. They didn't want to lose that potential audience of people who would go to their games and buy their stuff. So they do that.

Well, you know, he doesn't really have -- the coach for L.A., he doesn't have a dog in this fight.

BALDWIN: He doesn't have a dog in this fight. But some people are saying they picked the wrong target and the wrong state. It just so happens to be Phil Jackson.

But he's an individual. Why can't he express his own opinion? He is not in Arizona. It's not his own cause. Why not say what's on his mind, right?

Let me do a little side note on this story.

If you were actually watching the game and you saw Kobe Bryant's wife --

SANCHEZ: Yes.

BALDWIN: -- let's show that picture.

Can we, Roger?

There's a picture. This is Vanessa Bryant. And we can see -- there she is in that black T-shirt. And what it says is -- his head's kind of blocking it, but it says, "Do I Look Legal?"

SANCHEZ: So she's taking a shot at his coach.

BALDWIN: She is -- you could see it that way.

SANCHEZ: His boss.

BALDWIN: She's obviously taking a shot at the controversial immigration law. But that is -- she's part Hispanic, and that is Vanessa Bryant.

SANCHEZ: Yes. She's part Mexican, and she's got a very strong position about -- well, this is interesting, though.

BALDWIN: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Here you've got your head coach, your boss, taking a position that some would argue is in favor of the immigration law in Arizona. And then you have your wife --

BALDWIN: Then you have your wife -- so what are you doing if you're Kobe Bryant?

SANCHEZ: What you've got to do. My wife is always --

BALDWIN: Yes, sir.

SANCHEZ: -- the boss. Let me tell you something.

And honey, if you're listening, I'll be home in a little while.

BALDWIN: Oh, nice.

SANCHEZ: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thanks, Sanchez.

SANCHEZ: All right.

If police in Arizona -- staying with this story now, if police in Arizona stop a motorist for traffic violations, does the officer have the right to question the immigration status of the passengers in the car? This is just one of the many questions that comes up when you look at this Arizona law.

We want to drill down on not what Phil Jackson says or what Kobe Bryant's wife says or what some people -- no. What does the law actually say? It's about time we do this.

You asked for it. You're getting it. Stay right there. We'll have it.

By the way, fair or unfair, there are people who are boycotting Arizona.

Number 10, Boulder, Colorado, boycotting Arizona.

Number 9 on our list is a bit of a shocker, a city not on the West Coast, St. Paul, Minnesota, boycotting Arizona.

Coming in at number 8, Oakland, California.

Number 7, Seattle, as of this morning.

Number 6 on our list of the top 10 cities boycotting Arizona, El Paso, Texas.

Who are the others? The rest of the list coming right after the break. Stay right there to hear the top five. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right. Why are people boycotting the Arizona law? We told you we've got a whole list. Every day there's more people boycotting. There's even a possibility that the All-Star game, the Major League All-Star game, is going to be cancelled.

These are some of the protesters who continue to flaunt the law and obviously take on the decisions made by the governor and other state officials.

By the way, so what does the law say? How will it be enforced? We called AZ Post today. That's the police board that is responsible for coming up with the guidelines for this.

They are having a meeting to work on those guidelines today and tomorrow, they told us. They told us their final guidelines are still a couple of weeks away from going public.

Now, we want to know what the intent of this law is and how it's going to be applied. That's why we're inviting a couple of guests to discuss this.

Mike Hethmon is the executive director, Immigration Reform Law Institute. He helped with the drafting of this law.

Mike, did I get your name right?

MIKE HETHMON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, IMMIGRATION REFORM LAW INST.: Mike Hethmon. That's right, Rick.

SANCHEZ: I done good, huh?

HETHMON: You did.

SANCHEZ: You know what? And English is my second -- I'll have you know, English is my second language, by the way. So that's not bad.

I'm kidding, by the way. I'm not trying to --

Clarence Dupnik is joining us now. He's the sheriff of Pima County, Arizona.

Hey, it's great that both of you guys are here, because I've got some serious questions. Let's do this as a scenario.

I'm kind of getting tired of everybody in the country having an opinion about this law, most of them not knowing what the hell it says. Do you guys agree with me?

SHERIFF CLARENCE DUPNIK, PIMA COUNTY, ARIZONA: We do.

HETHMON: Yes. That's a real problem, Rick.

SANCHEZ: All right. Let's do this -- a police officer in his squad car, goes through a community, sees a community where a lot of illegal immigrants live, sees four teenagers. They are wearing old, beat-up shorts like teenagers will want to do -- sneakers, some raggy T-shirts. Does the police officer, just on what I have told you, have the right to stop and question any one of those four teenagers about their legal status?

Any one of you?

HETHMON: No, Rick. He doesn't.

DUPNIK: Well, in my opinion, from a law enforcement perspective --

SANCHEZ: Go ahead, Mike.

HETHMON: No, he doesn't. Under the law, he has to have -- it has to be a stop, a detention or an arrest. Those are the technical terms.

SANCHEZ: All right.

Clarence, you.

DUPNIK: No, I would agree. They shouldn't be interrogated about their legal status.

SANCHEZ: OK. So the law now reads -- this is important -- it says "lawful stop, detention or arrest, when practicable, to ask about a person's legal status when reasonable suspicion exists." That's what the law now says.

Let me read that to our viewers once again. A law states that an officer engaged in a "lawful stop, detention or arrest, must, when practicable, ask about a person's legal status when reasonable suspicion exists."

So that's why I'm glad I started with that one scenario. An officer is just in his car, sees some people, says, oh, let me just ask them to see if they are legal. And you say no, he can't do that. He can't just whimsically stop anybody and ask them whether they area.

And you're also saying, both of you, that's not what the law says.

Let's move to the next scenario.

An officer is pulling over a car because it has a broken tail light. He stops the driver, asks the driver for his identification, ask the driver for his legal status. After all, it's the driver who is driving the car.

Notices there are four people in the back seat, and then pulls them out and asks them what their legal status is. That was, after all, as defined by this, a lawful stop.

Does the officer, Gentlemen -- Clarence, this time I'll begin with you -- does the officer have a right to ask the passengers for their legal status?

DUPNIK: Well, it depends on the totality of the circumstances that are present. You know, the officer is always in a very difficult decision-making position.

When you're talking about reasonable suspicion, when you're talking about probably cause, when you're talking about reasonable grounds, you're in a very gray area legally. But the officer has a right to ask the driver for his driver's license.

SANCHEZ: Of course.

DUPNIK: If he shows --

SANCHEZ: The driver.

DUPNIK: If he shows a Mexican driver's license -- yes.

SANCHEZ: OK. But Clarence, I'm not asking you about the driver. I'm asking you about those four people sitting in the back seat who weren't driving the car and are not responsible for having a broken tail light, or whatever was broken on the car that I made up.

DUPNIK: Well, let me say that good officers tactfully interview everybody under those circumstances. There's no requirement for those other people to talk to the officer or ask his questions. But I would hope that most law enforcement officers would address everybody in the car if there are reasonable grounds to believe the driver is illegal.

SANCHEZ: Interesting answer. Boy, that kind of opens up an area that we weren't sure about.

Mike, do you share that opinion, that this opens the door for officers to also question people who may be in any way associated with the person who originally was being questioned?

HETHMON: Well, you have to realize, Rick, that what the Constitution allows is actually much more discretion that this statute gives the sheriff's officers. The Constitution says, and it was actually deciding in a case in Arizona, that if there's a lawful stop, and the driver can be questioned and ask for I.D., that all of the passengers of the vehicle can be questioned and asked for I.D. in the same way, without raising questions.

SANCHEZ: But that was -- Mike, and I don't mean to interrupt, but wasn't that a federal case, as opposed to a state case? We're talking about border agents in a situation like that, isn't it?

HETHMON: No, we're talking about Arizona v. Johnson, which was actually a drug stop. And this is the U.S. Supreme Court. So, remember, when the U.S. Supreme Court talks about the Fourth Amendment, that's law in Arizona.

SANCHEZ: So, what do we need this law for then?

HETHMON: This is going to be -- SANCHEZ: So what do we need this new law for if you just quoted me a law that's already on the books and gives police officers a right to do what we were arguing about here?

HETHMON: Well, here's what -- I'm getting there, Rick. I'm getting there.

What we need this law for -- and it's really a very narrow purpose -- is to end the sanctuary, the so-called sanctuary policies, in Arizona. And that was my understanding of what the sponsor set out to do. The problem is not that officers in most jurisdictions are out there profiling persons of their immigration status, the problem is that we have some radical jurisdictions which are turning a blind eye to persons who are unlawfully in this country in this reverse racial profiling.

SANCHEZ: I get it. I've heard the argument. But let me take that to Clarence before we close out.

Do you agree, Clarence, that there is not enough dicta or precedent in the case law now to have Arizona officials and law enforcement officials deal with this effectively, and we need this new law to tell them what to do?

DUPNIK: There is absolutely, in my opinion, no reason for this particular law. It does not give police officers any authority that they don't already have.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

DUPNIK: But it causes a myriad of problems for the police officers because of the way it's written.

SANCHEZ: Interesting. Boy, there's an argument for you.

You guys are totally on opposite ends of the spectrum on this. And like I told --

HETHMON: No, no, no, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Well, yes, you are. I mean, he just said you don't need this law. And you just told me -- you just told me, Mike, that we do need this law. Those are two opposite ends of the spectrum, my friend.

HETHMON: No. We only need the law, Rick, in certain of these scofflaw counties where they are taking the exact opposite position that the sheriff is taking.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: But we've got Clarence Dupnik who's sitting here telling me police already have the right to do any of this. It's already in the law. It's already been case studied. And we don't need to compound it. That's what he's saying, respectfully, and you're saying something different. I'm not here to take sides or tell you who is right. I'm just saying it's interesting that we have two guys that I respect, both are intellectuals, both know this law, and they're coming with different perspectives as they exam this for us on national television. To the viewers, I think that's interesting.

HETHMON: Rick --

SANCHEZ: Go ahead.

HETHMON: Rick, wouldn't you agree though that it's important on an issue -- it's important to so many people, our Fourth Amendment protections to have a standard public policy --

SANCHEZ: Oh, no question.

HETHMON: -- throughout the state of Arizona that every jurisdiction agrees to?

SANCHEZ: No question. And, if anything, what we need is a standard policy, to quote your words, not just for Arizona, but for the entire country. But obviously there's not enough courage at the Washington level to come up with something that standardizes this, so we are in the pickle that we are in now.

Guys, great conservation. I enjoyed it. I'm glad we had a chance to do this. We'll do it again as we move forward with the law.

We're in touch with AZ Post every day. When they tell us what the guidelines are, I'll bring both of you back and we'll go through it and kind of do this thing again.

God bless. Take care, guys.

HETHMON: Thank you so much.

SANCHEZ: All right. We'll be right back. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: All right. We've got some breaking news I want to share with you now.

I've just now been handed this information, and I think we've got some picture I can show you.

These are live pictures that we are looking at in Atlanta. And as it's being described to me, police have decided to divert traffic off of certainly what is one of the most busy roads in all of downtown Atlanta.

This is Peachtree Street you're looking at there, while authorities try and check on what appears to be a suspicious package. Atlanta police say that there was an envelope containing some kind of powder. It was delivered to the 15 floor at Number 2 Peachtree at Wall Street.

And there you have some of these guys who are going to the scene now.

Let me get over -- Roger, you don't need to go to me. I'm just going to let you know that I'm going to move, because there's no way I can see that monitor from all the way back here so I can look at exactly what it is we're seeing here.

The other information we've got is that -- and we want to thank, by the way, News 2, one of our affiliates here, for providing some of these pictures. Apparently, they've flown over the scene. This is from WSB.

They said that Peachtree Street is closed between Marietta and Wall Streets right now. Closed between Peachtree -- oh, there we go. Closed between Peachtree and Marietta and Wall Streets.

OK, what are we looking at here?

These are some of the hazmat guys. Apparently, they've just now gotten to the scene. And what they will do is, once they get geared up, they will go in, approaching the suspicious package, and either remove it, or make a decision as to how it's going to be dealt with.

You remember when we were watching a situation like this just about a week and a half ago -- just about a week and a half ago -- that was in Times Square again. Not with the suspicious, accused terrorist, but another incident where they had the hazmat guys suit up.

Then the hazmat guys went in. They took a look at the situation. They decided they couldn't tell exactly what was in the box.

Then they brought in one of those robotic devices to move it. And then, eventually, in one case, they actually had to blow it up to eliminate it all together.

We don't know -- there you see -- look at the bottom part of your screen. Do you see these five officers now walking over to the hazmat guys? They will make a determination as to whether or not this is a suspicious situation. But, you know, usually these things play out for quite some time.

I do have to tell you, living in Atlanta, this is happening at the absolute worst time. This is 4:59. Rush hour traffic is about to start. And when it does, this thing is going to create huge problems.

Angie, you were saying?

Oh, yes, that's right. It's by a main MARTA station.

Now, what are they carrying there? Is that the actual -- now you see another guy coming over with a bucket. You see one guy coming over with a bucket, and then you see one hazmat guy who's carrying some kind of device. We don't know if that's actually what they have taken out of that place or not.

Obviously, we're going to stay on top of this. And Wolf will let you know what happens as well.

Let me take you now to "THE SITUATION ROOM."

I'm Rick Sanchez. We'll see you again tomorrow.

Here now, Wolf Blitzer.