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American Morning
Tensions Escalate Between North and South Korea Over Sunken Ship; Some Fear Tar Reaching Louisiana Shore; Former Tour de Force Champion Admits to Using Performance Enhancing Substances; Interior Secretary Weighs in on Oil Slick Staining Wetlands and Dismantling MMS Agency; U.S. Losing Competitive Edge
Aired May 20, 2010 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Good Morning to you. It is Thursday, May 20th. Glad you're with us on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Acosta in for John Roberts. Lots to talk about this morning. The oil still spilling in the Gulf. Here are some of the big stories we'll be talking you about in the next 15 minutes.
The overpowering stench of crude now lingering along the Louisiana coast and the pictures to prove it. Thick puddles of oil snaking through sensitive wetlands. The pictures are powerful and heartbreaking. The head of the agency that oversees big well joins us live from Washington in a moment.
CHETRY: Well, tensions escalate between two countries still technically at war. South Korea accusing its neighbor in the north of a deadly attack on one of its ships back in March. And North Korea because of this accusation now threatening an all out war if anyone tries to retaliate.
So what are the diplomatic weapons of choice? We're live with new developments.
ACOSTA: Do you think they checked the list a few extra times last night? The Obamas hosting the state dinner. Check it out. George Lopez is there. The celebs, the fashion, the slipups, and the rest of the Salahi-free right all ahead.
CHETRY: We begin the hour with the devastating discovery in pristine wetlands of Louisiana's coast, huge puddles of crude, and now we're seeing it firsthand. People ask, where's the oil? There it is.
The worst case scenario has materialized. Here it is, sensitive marshlands off the east coast Louisiana now stained with pools of crude oil snaking through the estuaries there. The discovery made by Governor Bobby Jindal who witnessed it firsthand. He went on a boat ride with members of the media to see it.
ACOSTA: Meanwhile, a small portion of the massive oil leak has found its way into the loop current in the Gulf. Officials from NOAA say they detected very light sheens of crude that could carry all the way from Florida up the eastern seaboard. It's that nightmare scenario that could go as far as coastal North Carolina.
CHETRY: Also in Mississippi, tar balls have been found on the beaches of Hancock County. And right now, they're being tested in a lab to see if they're indeed part of the BP spill.
Rob Marciano is live in Mississippi this morning. Of course, locals are nervous regardless of whether the tar balls washed up. As we saw in Key West, when those washed up they determined it was not because of the spill. So what's the deal this morning?
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, they're hoping the same thing. But the samples are being tested. The problem is there was an extraordinary number that washed up here, so that's what has people a little worried. The slick spreading of heavy crude washing up on the Louisiana shorelines, so everybody on the Gulf of Mexico is on edge, to say the least.
Even here on the coastline of Mississippi with the main part of the slick still 50 miles offshore, every day the state gets calls in every day from people who live here report something sort of oil washing onshore.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN "HOOTY" ADAM, DIRECTOR, HANCOCK COUNTRY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: We've got boats out there, nobody reported seeing anything just yet.
MARCIANO: Brian "Hooty" Adam directs this emergency operation. Reports of potential oil around Hancock County has residents here on high alert.
He's a straight talker.
ADAM: We're not going to lie to them, though. If there's oil out there, we'll tell them.
MARCIANO: Approximately 200 pounds of black tar-like balls were recovered on the beach and brought to this meeting. Emergency managers want to know if they're from the deep horizon spill.
JESSE FINERAN, HAZMAT, HANCOCK COUNTY: Some of the things that we've observed that may try to clear up some of the confusion --
MARCIANO: Jesse Fineran has worked oil spills before. Twice a day he patrols the Hancock County shoreline. Four-wheelers are his mode of transport.
FINERAN: On switch here. This is your parking brake here. Other than that, ain't a whole lot to it.
MARCIANO (on camera): All right. Let's go clean the beach.
FINERAN: OK.
MARCIANO (voice-over): We work our way along the water. FINERAN: You see materials, cigarette butts, you're seeing vegetation, grass.
MARCIANO: Searching for signs of oil.
FINERAN: We've had people call in they've seen oily sheen. They've actually see oil floating on the water that they've seen this material.
MARCIANO (on camera): And your job is to verify the calls?
FINERAN: To basically verify the calls. To see if it's something that we want to know.
MARCIANO (voice-over): Heightened sensitivity seems to have everyone seeing oil.
MARCIANO (on camera): What about this foamy stuff here?
FINERAN: It has no petroleum odor to it. It does have a reddish color. And the clay balls are consistent to what are being used for the restoration project on the sand beaches here. You can see this reddish sheen up and down our beach in our sea-foam. That may be what people are seeing.
MARCIANO: So one more mistaken identity?
FINERAN: Very possibly. But we still haven't tested it.
MARCIANO (voice-over): The sun sets but Fineran's work is far from over. He'll be out combing the beach every day until the spill is contained.
FINERAN: We're doing everything we possibly can to make sure it's safe out here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARCIANO: It's been a long month since that oil rig exploded. They've been watching, they've been waiting, they've been preparing. To say that folks here are nervous is certainly an understatement.
Certainly, the main slick is offshore and they're hoping it stays that way. And it very well may be the case. The beaches here have never been cleaner aside from the spots that we've seen the tar balls roll up on shore.
And there's a number of explanations for what they could be, one of which of course is oil spill itself. But they have to test those samples. When they get the tests back, we'll let you know. We're certainly hoping it's not from the spill and it's just from people being on the lookout, much like they were in Key West. Kiran, Jim?
ACOSTA: Rob Marciano live in Bay, St. Louis, this morning, thanks, Rob. It's still not clear how many barrels of crude oil are gushing into the Gulf each day. BP says it's 5,000 and claims that a good percentage is being contained and captured.
CHETRY: But a mechanical engineering professor from Purdue is not buying those systems. Steve Wereley was one of the first to question the estimate. He told Congress he believes the spill could be 20 times worse than BP is admitting.
We talked to him earlier on "AMERICAN MORNING." He told us that he thinks that the oil company is doing some PR damage control.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROF. STEVE WERELEY, PURDUE UNIVESITY: I think what they're thinking if is they can keep the videos under wraps, the U.S. public is not going get up in arms. If you don't see the oil causing damage, there's -- you know, you're going to think, all right, it's a problem, but it's nothing that we need to solve right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: And when Professor Wereley testified on Capitol Hill yesterday he told Congress he doesn't see any possibility of BP's figures being accurate. We asked him what does he think, and he said the way they figure it out, it's complicated for lay people.
ACOSTA: Sure.
CHETRY: But they actually paused the video at different times and looked at the plume going up the cloud. He says it could be anywhere from 20,000 to 100,000 which is a big range, but more than what the company is admitting.
ACOSTA: Exactly. And we're going to be pressing the Interior Secretary Ken Salazar on this in just a few minutes, right?
CHETRY: He admits there is a culture of corruption in his agency, and he plans do more to better regulate big oil.
ACOSTA: Meanwhile, in the Midwest, waking up battered and beaten this morning after severe weather pounds the Plain States last night. At least six tornadoes touched down in Oklahoma, enough for scientists to call this a super-cell of tornadoes.
Just look at these pictures. Thankfully, only two people were hurt. Several homes and businesses were damaged. Severe storms also beat up Kansas and Missouri, the whole region under the gun again today. My goodness.
CHETRY: Also developing this morning, North Korea taking tensions to a new and more dangerous level, threatening all-out war after an investigation found it was behind an incident that sunk a South Korean warship.
ACOSTA: The incident happened last night in the Yellow sea, and 46 sailors were killed. Pyongyang denies any involvement. But in Washington, the White House says evidence like these torpedo parts point overwhelmingly to the North.
As we speak, America's close ally, South Korea, is lining up its options for retaliation. We've got this story covered from both sides of the globe. Our John Vause is live in Beijing, and Dan Lothian is live at the White House with the Obama administration's response. Let's start with John. John, how did all of this come about?
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim, it took a team of investigators from five different countries about two months to make the direct link between North Korea and the sinking of that ship Cheonan. It suddenly broke in two because of what was considered to be a mystery explosion.
Today in Seoul investigators put on display pieces of debris from what they say was the torpedo fired by a midsize North Korean sub. The pieces, they say, perfectly match the schematics of other North Korean torpedoes which the north tries to sell to other countries.
Also they say on one of the fragments of the debris was a serial number, again, matching North Korean torpedoes. Also they say a few days before this attack, a number of subs left a naval base in North Korea, and hen after the attack, they returned to port. Jim?
ACOSTA: John Vause live in Beijing, thanks, John.
CHETRY: At the White House the question is not whether or not North Korea was behind the attack but what to do about it. Our Dan Lothian is live at the White House. When you take a look at the options, nothing seems easy, of course. And sanctions have already been in place. So, really, how do they measure how they respond this morning?
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Kiran, it's going to be very difficult. This is a delicate matter. South Korea, as you pointed out, is a key ally, one that the U.S. will defend in any confrontation. Although a State Department official says he doesn't believe this will develop into a military confrontation.
So the White House for its part though is weighing in on the report which clearly points a finger at North Korea, the White House saying that the international investigation reflects a scientific review of the evidence.
In a statement, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs went on to say, quote, "This act of aggression is one more instance of North Korea's unacceptable behavior and defiance of international law. This attack constitutes a challenge to international peace and security and is in violation of the armistice agreement." That, of course is the agreement that ended the Korean War.
President Obama did speak with the President Lee of South Korea on Monday, pledging his full support. Next week Secretary of State Clinton heads to Seoul. Part of her discussions there will be about the latest on the investigation. She'll also visit Japan and China. And this issue is expected to be high on the agenda, Kiran.
CHETRY: Dan Lothian for us at the White House this morning, thank you.
ACOSTA: And boy, oh, boy, this is getting a lot of buzz this morning. The man who was stripped of his 2006 tour de France title, American cyclist Floyd Landis is finally admitting doping, and he's naming other names, get this, like Lance Armstrong.
CHETRY: The "Wall Street Journal" was the first to publish emails that they say are verified from Landis that detail performance enhancing drug use by him. And he puts others in that category as well. He ropes in Lance Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France champion.
Armstrong has denied ever using banned substances, and the accusations that he's faced never stuck. Armstrong did not respond to the report. But again, after years of denials, Floyd Landis saying, yes, I was involved.
ACOSTA: And I imagine Lance Armstrong will, again, push back very strongly on this. He has in this process where he's been accused time and again about this. It will be interesting to see what the latest developments are on that.
We'll have to hear from Lance Armstrong. And from that from what I understand, we are reaching out to him and the folks who represent him.
Meanwhile the "hostess with the mostest." We're talking about first lady Michelle Obama stealing the show at her second state dinner instead of a couple named the Salahis.
CHETRY: That's right. We can put them aside. A lot of people saying first in fashion, cooing over the dress there.
And also, what could cause a plane's windshield to just shatter right in the middle of your flight? We're going to show you this cockpit danger and tell you what investigators are doing about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning. It's 15 minutes past the hour right now.
We've been showing you these heart-wrenching pictures from the Gulf Coast all morning where thick waves of crude oil are snaking through the fragile marshlands of Louisiana, the oil slick now reaching the Gulf's powerful loop current as well. That means it could eventually carry this oil all the way to Florida, up the Eastern seaboard, perhaps as far north as coastal North Carolina.
Meanwhile, the Interior Department is planning to reorganize the embattled Minerals Management Service. That's the agency that regulates big oil, while simultaneously collecting royalties from the oil and gas they produce. Joining me now is the Secretary of the Interior, Ken Salazar. Good morning, Mr. Secretary. Great to see you this morning.
KEN SALAZAR, SECRETARY OF U.S. DEPT. OF THE INTERIOR: Good morning, Kiran.
CHETRY: So we're one month out when this disaster happened. We saw some of that disturbing video of the oil making it to those delicate marshes of the Louisiana coast. Do you have a clear picture this morning of when the oil may actually stop gushing from that underwater well?
SALAZAR: You know, our hope is what they call the dynamic kill of this well will happen on Sunday and that it will be killed. Everything is being done to make sure that that happens. And we have the best scientists in the world who are overseeing what is going on. And so we are hopeful that it will happen soon.
CHETRY: But, have you gotten any type of clearer picture from BP about some of the other avenues they're trying, since some of the ones that they've been doing have not worked so far?
SALAZAR: They have multiple avenues that they have been implementing from the very beginning because if something doesn't work, you immediately fall back to other alternatives. We, every day, are on top of BP, relative to the different work streams that they have going on. This particular work stream, what they call the dynamic kill, is something that should come according to their schedule in play on Sunday. That will be an effort to essentially kill the well through the insertion of mud. We're doing everything we can to hold BP accountable. And we will hold them accountable on behalf of the American people.
CHETRY: All right. So that's set to take place on Sunday. They're putting a lot of hope in that. We'll see what happens. But it seems that we essentially know very little about the true scope of the problem. I want to listen to a little bit of what a well-known oceanographer said at a congressional hearing on the BP spill this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems baffling that we don't know how much oil is actually being spilled. We don't know where the oil is in the water column.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: So she's saying it's baffling that they don't know, that they don't have the answers. Why does it seem that the real dimensions of this disaster are so obscure a month out?
SALAZAR: The best estimates are, at this point, that there is 5,000 barrels a day. But it has been difficult to get a better, more accurate picture of that because of the very harsh sub-sea conditions that are being operated on. Our priority has been to stop the well from leaking because that's where the cancer and we need to get that stopped.
But there will be and has been under way an independent review by NOAA, the USGS, and other agencies looking for satellite imagery and looking through a whole number of other efforts to come up with the number. So the United States doesn't have anything to hide here. We will have a number that is true and accurate. We need that because we need to go after BP relative to the natural resource damages. But we also need to make sure that the American people know the complete story of how much oil has spilled.
CHETRY: Right.
SALAZAR: So we will have that number.
CHETRY: You said that it's hard to estimate. We just had a mechanical engineer on a few moments ago who talked about the fact that it's not that hard actually, and that there is a scientific way to test for it. That they have spoken to BP about it and they are estimating 20,000 to 100,000. They're saying that this 5,000 gallon a day number is wildly underestimated. And he was questioning why they haven't reached out more to the scientific community to say they have ways to actually more accurately test this oil.
And the question is, is it because it just looks bad? I mean, is there a PR element to this, that the more that the American public knows about how much oil is going in there, the more of a PR nightmare it is for BP and, by extension, the federal government?
SALAZAR: Kiran, the focus has been absolutely to try to kill this well, to stop the flow, and that's where the energy is going. Secondly, with respect to the amount of flow that's out there, we're not depending on what BP is telling us. There is a whole group of scientific community and agencies like NOAA and the USGS, the Coast Guard and others that are coming up with our own independent numbers. We will note what the numbers are. And everybody will know right now, the focus of the effort has got to be in stopping the leak and containing it and ultimately killing this well. And hopefully, the killing of the well will happen very soon.
CHETRY: I want to ask you about the whole issue, there's been a lot of anger. People are very angry at the way this has been handled. But also on a larger view, people are blaming the federal government in some way, especially when it come to the agency that oversees this offshore drilling because -- and this is before your administration, of course, but the way the agency is set up, they collect royalties from big oil at the same time they're supposed to manage big oil. Will that change now under your administration in light of what has happened?
SALAZAR: Kiran, I am angry, too. And the president is angry and frustrated as well. We inherited here what was a legacy of an agency that essentially was rubber stamping whatever it was that the oil and gas industry wanted. We have been on a reform agenda from day one. That reform agenda has included ethics standards, elimination of programs like the royalty in kind program, moving forward with offshore wind energy and a whole host of other things. We will continue relentlessly on that reform agenda and will learn the lessons from this terrible incident in the Gulf of Mexico.
We must remember that there have been over 36,000 wells that have been drilled in the Gulf of Mexico. Thirty percent of our domestic oil comes from the Gulf of Mexico. And all of us who drive cars and are dependent on oil need to know that domestic energy is coming from that place. And so we will move forward in a thoughtful way to make sure that production of oil and gas is done in the Gulf of Mexico in a safe way that protects the environment and protects the people.
CHETRY: And that was the subject back and forth between you and Senator Bernie Sanders. He was asking, you kept referring -- you referred to pressing the "pause" button. He was asking whether or not there's going to be an all-out moratorium on offshore drilling until the situation can get resolved. How do you respond this morning? Has that position changed? Should you stop drilling? Should the administration force a stop to drilling until some of these issues and some of the changes that you talked about in the administration that regulates offshore drilling happen?
SALAZAR: It's a good question, Kiran. And what President Obama has directed very clearly is that we have that "pause" button, that we keep that "pause ""button in place and we have it there. He has directed that we deliver a report to him by the end of this month. That report will deal with safety measures with respect to the offshore and we'll move forward from there.
But I would also remind people that from day one, President Obama has been talking about the need for a comprehensive energy plan. And that comprehensive energy plan includes solar and wind and geothermal and everything else that we have been working on. Oil and gas is part of that portfolio. And it seems to us that it's high time that Congress and the American people help us move forward with an energy framework that's comprehensive in nature so that we can get rid of our dependence on foreign oil, and so we can stop exporting $700 billion a year overseas.
CHETRY: Right.
SALAZAR: And so that we can create jobs here at home. And so the importance of energy legislation is something which remains a high priority for this president.
CHETRY: All right. Secretary Ken Salazar, the U.S. Department of Interior. Thanks for your time this morning.
SALAZAR: Thank you, Kiran.
CHETRY: We're going to take a quick break. It's 23 minutes after the hour. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: Welcome back. Christine Romans is "Minding Your Business" this morning -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: We're number one. We're number three.
ACOSTA: Yes, oh, boy.
ROMANS: The United States in a new key ranking of world competitiveness has found for the first time in 16 years the United States has slipped from number one to number three in the world's most competitive economies.
Who is number one? Singapore and Hong Kong. These economies bouncing back -- bouncing back nicely from a recession, while the United States, number three. Switzerland number four, Austria number five.
Why has the United States slipped in its competitiveness? This is a ranking about how well countries do to manage their government, their peoples, their infrastructure, their businesses. We have a big budget deficit. We have an awful -- more than $12 trillion in debt and high unemployment. Those are the things that are holding back competitiveness in this country, according to this key ranking.
It is the 2010 World Competitiveness Yearbook, if you're wondering. But it notes some strengths. That means we are at the very near top of the list. Technology and business competitiveness. So something, another casualty of the recession. America's top spot in competitiveness in the world given up to Singapore and Hong Kong.
ACOSTA: Wow. Not surprising, though.
ROMANS: We're number three.
ACOSTA: Yes.
ROMANS: We're number three.
ACOSTA: I'll take the bronze.
CHETRY: Bronze.
ACOSTA: Yes. Hello, didn't plan that. You owe me a Coke.
Coming up, danger in the cockpit. Investigators think they know what's causing airplane windshields to shatter and flights. So what's being done to make sure it doesn't cause a catastrophe? That's a good question.
It's 26 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: It's 30 minutes past the hour. That means it's time for a look at our top stories.
And we're continuing to cover oil spill. Tar balls now giving way to heavy crude oil on Louisiana's coastline. The state's governor, Bobby Jindal, getting a firsthand look and feel for the scope of the environmental disaster which he calls a spreading cancer. Tar balls from the BP oil spill may now be washing up as well on beaches in Mississippi.
ACOSTA: And Thailand security forces say they finally regained control of Bangkok. A month of anti-government protest have turned the city into a war zone. Buildings there are still smoldering. A curfew in Bangkok has been extended to Sunday and political tensions remain high. Seven protest leaders are now in custody, and the government is promising that they will be prosecuted.
CHETRY: And in Iran, an emotional reunion between three jailed American hikers and their mothers. Sarah Shourd, Josh Fattal, and Shane Bauer have been detained since last July when they were hiking in Iraq and straight over the Iranian border. Tehran, though, accused them of spying. And there you see them, mothers just holding on to them. They were able to finally secure visas; Iran allowed that to happen. They're in the country right now trying to secure their children's release.
ACOSTA: And fire in the cockpit. I think it's fair to say that's one thing we don't want to see at 30,000 feet, but that's just what happened on a united flight last week. It was captured on video by an I-reporter. Our homeland security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve, is following the story live in Washington. Good morning, Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Jim. The Federal Aviation Administration is speeding up an order requiring airlines to inspect windshield heaters on Boeing jets after this incident on Sunday night.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): A passenger walks up to the cockpit of a United Airlines Boeing 757 to see for himself why his New York-Los Angeles flight made an emergency landing near Washington Sunday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a lot of smoke.
MESERVE: The windshield had shattered after a fire broke out in the cockpit.
PHIL LOBEL AIRLINE PASSENGER: Flames were coming out of the cockpit door when the flight attendant first opened the door and handed the fire extinguisher off to the pilot and co-pilot, but the pilot and co-pilot, you know, had smoke inside. The pilot and co- pilot had their masks on.
MESERVE: The plane landed safely. No one was hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crew successfully dealt with it. There was not a depressurization. The airplane diverted safely. Yes, there was a fire, and fires are never good, but it's not a life threatening evening, and in my view, it doesn't warrant grounding the airplanes.
MESERVE: The cause is under investigation, but Cox, a former airline pilot who runs an aviation safety company estimates there have been about 20 similar incidents with Boeing aircraft caused by window heaters. In 2008, flying glass from this shattered windshield cut the first officer, and smoke sickened several passengers. Boeing has recommended voluntary fixes, but the National Transportation Safety Board had urged the FAA to take stronger action and require airlines to install redesigned window heating systems.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (on-camera): And though the cause of Sunday's cockpit fire is still unknown, a review of the incident has prompted the FAA to speed up plans requiring airlines to either replace or regularly inspect the window heating systems which are causing these fires in some cases. The order was originally scheduled for August. Now, the FAA will issue it as soon as possible. Jim, Kiran, back to you.
ACOSTA: Jeanne Meserve in Washington. Thanks so much.
CHETRY: The state department says it's, quote, "deeply disappointed after two gay men in Malawi were sentenced to 14 years in prison." The couple arrested back in December at their home after taking party (ph) and engagement ceremony. A court found them guilty of gross indecency and unnatural acts. Lawyers of a higher court will overturn what they call an unjust, cruel verdict.
ACOSTA: And right out of the movies. Police in Paris searching for the lone thief behind a multimillion dollar art heist. Investigators say a masked man was caught on tape while stealing five paintings from the museum of modern art including Pablo Picasso's "Pigeon with the Peas." There it is right there and "Pastoral" by Henry Matisse (ph). Police have the museum completely corned off. Officials put the total worth of all five paintings at nearly $620 million. Unbelievable.
CHETRY: It is unbelievable.
ACOSTA: First Lady Michelle Obama, you know, she was not only at that state dinner last night in that beautiful dress. She was also earlier in the day asked a pointed question from an elementary school student. We'll tell you how a classroom visit is reigniting the nation's debate over immigration. It's 34 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: Welcome back. You know, first lady Michelle Obama was asked a tough question about immigration during a visit to a DC area school. The first lady was there to teach students about diet and exercise when a second grader changed the topics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED KID: My mom said - my mom saw Barack Obama. My mom said that, I think that she says that Barack Obama is taking everybody away that doesn't have papers.
MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, that's something that we have to work on, right? To make sure that people can be here with the right kind of papers, right? That's exactly right.
UNIDENTIFIED KID: But my mom doesn't have any papers.
OBAMA: Yes, we have to work on that. We have to fix that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Brave little girl asking that question there. Joining me now live from Washington, Illinois Democrat Congressman Luis Gutierrez and Republican Congressman Ed Royce. Thank you gentlemen for joining us this morning. Congressman Gutierrez, let's me start with you. What did you think when you heard that little girl ask that impromptu question of the first lady? I mean, I know you, personally, have been trying very diligently to get a lot of attention for the issue of immigration reform, and then a second grader did it, you know, all of a sudden, in the middle of a school visit, essentially a photo-op by the first lady.
REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ, (D) CHAIRMAN OF THE DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS IMMIGRATION TASK FORCE: First of all, I think the first lady handled it with a lot of grace and elegance. It's difficult and awkward to be put in that situation. But what this beautiful little girl expressed is nothing new. We have soldiers returning from Iraq, Afghanistan, whose lives are in orders of deportation. The fact is our system is broken, and it's dividing families. Look, there are 5.5 million American citizen children whose parents are undocumented. and who live each and every day in fear of losing their parents.
Over the last four years, nearly 100,000 American citizen children have lost their parents. I've met them in Atlanta. I've met them in L.A. I've met them in San Francisco, Chicago, Miami, across this country, and I think it's time that we do something that is fair and is equitable and is just. And allow those children to grow up with the kind of family values I know we all believe in. The first one being, let's have mom around to raise her.
ACOSTA: Yes, and Congressman Royce, what was your thought when you saw that video? I mean, your heart obviously has to go out to this little girl, but at the same time, were you thinking, well, there's an undocumented mother, perhaps, and something should be done about it. What was your take?
REP. ED ROYCE (R) RANKING MEMBER, TERRORISM NON-PROLIFERATION AND TRADE SUBCOMMITTEE: I think it shows the tragedy in the failure to enforce our immigration laws at the border. In other words, the lack of border security has produced a situation where people from all over the world who want to come here illegally in the United States do so. And we're not effectively able to stop them at the borders. And so, this is why we must focus more on border security. It's one of the examples.
ACOSTA: Yes, but tightening up the borders is one thing, but what do you do about all of the people who are in this country right now? Children who may be legally in this country because they were born in the United States, but have undocumented parents? What do you do in those situations? What do you do with those families, in your opinion?
ROYCE: One of the things you have to do at some point is say how do you prevent this situation from compounding? If Poland shows that there are 1 billion people in the world who would like to come to the United States, we have a legal way for people to do that. But with our high unemployment and everything else right now in the United States, not to go forward with border security and enforcement measures at the border only will compound the situation. So, what I would like to see is border enforcement.
ACOSTA: And how about that Congressman Gutierrez? I mean, you know, everybody, even right up to the president wants to see the borders tightened. There's nothing wrong with that, correct?
GUTIERREZ: No, nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact, in the last 10 years, we've gone from 10,000 to 20,000 border patrol agents. That's good.
ACOSTA: What about the national guard at the border? Is that a good idea?
GUTIERREZ: Well, I think we need to do everything we need to do to secure our border, but look, the fact that the underlying question that that little girl asked is still unresolved. There are 5.5 million American citizen children just like her. There are 12 million undocumented workers in this country. There are families that are being torn apart. And I think what we have to ask ourselves, what's the fair thing? What's the just thing? OK, they violated the law. What is the punishment to that little girl?
So, let's do something that's fair and let's feel with it. We can work on the border. We are working on the border. The fact is that half of the undocumented people that live in the United States don't come through that border. You know how they get here? Through student visas, through tourist visas, through work visas. So, we do need to ratchet up our system so that people who come to working here are legally working in this country.
But still, let's go to the underlying question of that little girl, I love my mommy, can I have her here? And what is the right American thing to do in terms of our values. And I think our values that we should respond to that little girl and do what's fair and just. Let's take her mother, sign her up for a program, have her pay taxes, learn English and legalize her status so she can raise that little girl.
ACOSTA: And Congressman Royce, what do we do about this issue because we have the situation going on in Arizona right now where they passed that law that's become very controversial? We got a lot of folks in the Latino community very upset about it. Congressman Gutierrez has, essentially, said it's a law that's race-based. What is your sense of it? How do you weigh in on that law down in Arizona?
ROYCE: Well, it's based on the driver's license. In other words, if you have -- in Arizona, you have to have a driver's license to drive. And in Arizona, you have to be a citizen or arrested alien in order to get that driver's license. You can't obtain one if you're here illegally. So, under the Arizona law, if you're speeding or you run a stop sign, and you were pulled over lawfully, you have to show your driver's license. And that's sort of the crux of the debate. The problem and the reason Arizona passed the law is because a lot of cartel violence --
ACOSTA: Congressman Gutierrez, why don't you get in on the law in Arizona real quick. I mean, do you accept what the Congressman an is saying there?
GUTIERREZ: Look, I think we have a border that we need to attack. And we need to attack the drug cartel. Listen, the people that are crossing that border to pick our fruits, raise our children, wash our dishes, make our beds in our hotels, they're not a threat criminally to the United States. It's the drug cartel. So, let's focus on those drug cartels. Mexico and the United States. Let's combat crime. Not do racial profiling.
ACOSTA: Congressman Gutierrez, Congrressman Royce, thanks for that today, appreciate it. Good to talk to you.
CHETRY: Good debate. Now and to be continued.
ACOSTA: Yes, the debate goes on that's fore sure.
CHETRY: One thing everybody agrees on is that the federal government needs to step up more in that situation.
ACOSTA: At the border.
CHETRY: Right.
ACOSTA: But that situation with that little girl brings up a huge issue which is what do you do about the families that are here. And you heard Congressman Royce there, I don't want to say dodge the question, but he dovetailed very quickly to the issue of border security once we asked it. It's a difficult situation.
CHETRY: It is. It is.
Forty-seven minutes past the hour. Reynolds Wolf is going to come along. He's not only tracking some extreme weather in the plain states, tornadoes touching down, we have some video of that, but also, what's going on with the oil spill and whether or not some of the weather down there as well as the currents are going to carry it closer to the east coast. We'll be right back.
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ACOSTA: And good morning, Baltimore. You're looking live at downtown Baltimore. It's 58 degrees right now. Later today, 83 -
CHETRY: (INAUDIBLE) soak up some sun, catch a (INAUDIBLE). Love it. ACOSTA: If only we had taken a shot of Kiran five seconds ago, when she was dancing to Taylor Swift.
CHETRY: There's nothing better in life than rocking out with your 4-year-old to Taylor Swift.
ACOSTA: There you go. I agree with you. That's - you're right about that.
I've never done it, but I'll take your word for it.
CHETRY: Forty-eight minutes past the hour right now. Time to get a check of the weather's headlines.
Baltimore doesn't look too bad, actually, Reynolds, where - I mean, better than much of the country.
REYNOLDS WOLF, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, I know. I mean, it really does look pretty nice. I mean, all things considered, I mean, you - you contrast that with what's been happening in parts of the Central Plains, and, I mean, it's just been ugly.
We had plenty of tornadoes yesterday in parts of Oklahoma and Kansas. Right now, we are tornado-free, but still some strong storms that go right along from parts of the I-55 corridor here, Johannesburg (ph) and Memphis, back into Little Rock. We even have a severe thunderstorm watch that's in effect until 9:00 for portions of Texas (INAUDIBLE) and the I-30 corridor.
And here is the reason why it's all happening, this big area of low pressure that's tapping into the gulf moisture. Back in line with some of the daytime heating that will give us some stronger storms by the afternoon. You see it right there.
And as we fast forward into your temperatures the next 30 seconds, 87 in Dallas, Houston with 89 degrees, 88 in New Orleans and 85 in Atlanta, 79 in Boston and 58 in San Francisco, 57 in Seattle.
Let's head back to the Gulf Coast and let you know what you can expect in terms of the forecast. More of a southerly breeze, this oil spill now the size of Taiwan. Hard to believe how big this thing is. Along the coast, they can expect this chance of storms, winds southeast at 10 miles per hour, waves at 1 to 2 feet.
We're going to have more on this forecast coming up in just a few moments. So let's send it back to you guys in New York. Enjoy.
CHETRY: All right. We will.
ACOSTA: Reynolds, thank you so much.
No papers needed here. What is - what is that in reference to? Well, you're going to find out, one city with the same problem as they have in Arizona, going the other way, giving IDs to illegal immigrants. But is that the kinder, gentler way, or more expensive? It's 49 minutes after the hour.
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CHETRY: It's coming up now (INAUDIBLE) past the hour.
With Arizona's tough new immigration law that shot the issue back into the national conversation, what to do with the problem of illegal immigration? One city that has a similar problem is moving in the opposite direction of cities in Arizona.
Carol Costello has the "A.M. Gut Check" for us this morning live from Washington, and you're talking about Trenton?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Trenton, New Jersey, Kiran.
Politicians and some police say Arizona's tough new immigration law is desperately needed to stop a wave of violent crime committed by illegal immigrants pouring over the border. Critics say this kind of talk is wildly exaggerated, an excuse to use racial profiling to lock up people who are actually five times less likely to commit crimes than American citizens.
Who's right?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): In Maricopa County, Arizona, Sheriff Joe Arpaio was all about finding and arresting illegal immigrants.
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: Because I'm enforcing the law.
COSTELLO: If you want to know how many illegal immigrants his deputies have questioned, arrested or detained, it's on the website, 38,136 to date.
ARPAIO: Right now and in this area, we have 100 people in jail right now, charged with murder, that are here illegally.
COSTELLO: That was three weeks ago. It's a scary number for those living in a state boarding Mexico, a country with a terrible, violent drug cartel problem.
But critics say while some illegal immigrants do commit violent crime, Arpaio's assertion that illegal immigrants are terrorizing Arizona en masse is simply false.
PROF. DAVID HARRIS, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH: When we look at the data, when we look at the real numbers, we find that those claims are wildly exaggerated, if not outright untrue.
COSTELLO: According to FBI statistics, violent crime in Arizona dropped by nearly 1,500 reported incidents between 2005 and 2008. Property crimes also fell. Harris says immigrants, legal and illegal, are five times less likely than native-born Americans to be involved in crime.
In Trenton, New Jersey, where 23 percent of the residents are immigrants, police agree. They say illegal immigrants are more likely to be victims of crime than criminals.
Instead of aggressively pursuing illegal immigrants like Wendy Ochoa, Trenton embraces them by allowing community groups to issue illegal immigrants a community identification card that gives them access to libraries and doctor's offices.
WENDY OCHOA, HONDURAN IMMIGRANT (through translator): If the police stop me, I can give them this I.D. and anything that is protected by the police makes me feel safer.
COSTELLO: Trenton police are not allowed to ask about immigration status unless they suspect a felony. Detective Bob Russo says most officers like the policy because it builds the community trust they need to fight crime.
DET. BOB RUSSO, TRENTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: I haven't had the opportunity to speak to the authorities in Arizona. I don't know if they recognize to the extent that we have that the immigrant population can - can actually be an asset to us.
COSTELLO: In parts of Arizona, that argument doesn't fly. The governor says 600 illegal immigrants convicted of serious criminal offenses are in Arizona jails, costing taxpayers millions of dollars a year.
Supporters of Arizona's law say cities like Trenton only make things worse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They add to the schizophrenia within our public discourse about whether we believe in the immigration rule of law or not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: In other words, McDonald says, immigrants who come into the country illegally are committing a crime no matter where they live and they should be dealt with. Arizona's problems with illegals are different than Trenton's because of course Arizona is a lot closer to Mexico.
All jurisdictions agree, thought, Kiran, the federal government must step in and - and try to do something to solve this problem.
A lot of people have been responding to this story on our blog this morning, cnn.com/amfix. I'm just going to read a couple of comments right now, Kiran.
This is from Joe. He says, I don't understand what it is about illegal that is hard to understand. My family legally immigrated from Ireland and Italy. They went to night school, learned English, knew the presidents, states and capitals. They learned to be citizens. They took an oath and sent their sons to wars.
It's illegal to speed, rob, murder, but not if you are illegal. We should be compassionate and understanding? Are you kidding? He says. Illegal is illegal.
And this one from John, Kiran, What matters is that - is that they are committing felonies by being here and working illegally in this country. With 10 percent unemployment, it's a disgrace. Also, the paying cost to those standing in line waiting to come here legally is unacceptable.
Keep the comments coming, cnn.com/amfix. We're always happy to read your comments - Kiran.
CHETRY: All right, and a lot of provocative thoughts on that subject for sure.
Carol Costello for us this morning. Thank you.
COSTELLO: Sure.
ACOSTA: And our top stories are coming your way after a quick break. Stay with us.
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