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Campbell Brown
Interview With Admiral Thad Allen; Oil Reaches Louisiana Wetlands
Aired May 24, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody.
It has been 35 days since the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, and some scientists say the spill is already worse than the 11 million gallon Exxon Valdez spill. Oil is now coming ashore from Dauphin Island, Alabama, to Grand Isle, Louisiana. That is 150 miles of shoreline.
But BP's latest attempt to plug the leak, the so-called top kill, won't come until Wednesday at dawn. The company's CEO admits there is no more than a 60 percent to 70 percent chance that it will work, and a permanent fix may not come until August.
So, tonight, as you can imagine, outrage is building. There are calls for the federal government to take this whole thing over. And we're going to ask the Obama administration's point person, Coast Guard Commandant Thad Allen if he still thinks that BP can handle this job.
Also coming up, I will talk to the president of Plaquemines Parish. He is there. He is living it on the scene and calls the situation along the Louisiana coast tonight just heartbreaking.
So, our number-one story is, of course, the efforts to turn back this disaster in the Gulf. BP has tried skimmers, barriers, booms, an oil-containing dome, dispersants, one potential fix after another. And more than four weeks in, nothing has worked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Tonight, new details on that massive oil rig explosion off the coast of Louisiana. Take a look at these images. I mean, that thing is just going up.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Oil slick triggered by that massive rig explosion is about to hit the coast tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Skimmers, barriers, oil-absorbing booms stacked ceiling high for the effort. It's the traditional way to fight this spill. And engineers are fabricating a new idea, building this dome they hope will capture the leaking oil underwater.
BLITZER: Oil from the gushing Gulf oil well has now hit the barrier islands off Louisiana's Saint Bernard Parish. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That containment dome has reached the location, but it will still take a couple of days, that process of putting it on top of the leak, siphoning out the oil.
BLITZER: Can that contain the situation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we have learned throughout this event as it has progressed and things have changed that we shouldn't bank -- bank that this will be a final solution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sign of hope. BP says it has successfully inserted a mile-long tube into a damaged oil pipe. Engineers used deep sea robots to lower the bulky tube into 21-inch piping. The tube then siphons oil from the erupting well into tankers on the surface.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: But it's not actually collecting all that much oil. Now that moves us to the next thing that they're preparing for. BP on Wednesday is going to launch something called the top kill. Now you dump some kind of a mud mixture into there and you push the oil down.
TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BP GROUP: We rate the probability of success as somewhere between 60 percent and 70 percent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now we wanted to get a better look at what is going on below the surface without waiting for BP to show us. So, CNN got our own ROV -- that is short for remotely operated underwater vehicle. They are commonly used by underwater industries. And we trained our camera on the oil 50 feet below the surface.
David Mattingly has this exclusive look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Where we're going, there's normally nothing to look at but islands of oil rigs and something else.
(on camera): Just like on previous trips out here, this time we're looking for oil. And it won't be hard to find. But it has been hard to see what that oil is doing beneath the surface of the water. Well, today that's about to change.
You're right in the thick of it there?
JEFF SNYDER, SEAVISION UNDERWATER SOLUTIONS: Yes. That's pretty nasty stuff.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Former Navy diver and geophysicist Jeff Snyder specializes in underwater surveying, using a submersible robotic camera. He is giving us our first exclusive look inside and under the spill.
SNYDER: Passing 50 feet.
MATTINGLY (on camera): I'm still seeing the droplets of oil in there 50 feet down.
SNYDER: Yes. Right.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): The first surprise comes quickly. The clumps of oil that have been treated by dispersant visible on top as a long orange band actually extends 50 feet beneath the surface.
SNYDER: So, if can you imagine, you know, we're at 50 feet right now. And we're 20 miles from the rig. There's no telling what kind of pass -- what kind of path the emulsified oil has been subject to the dispersants, what kind of path it is taking as it makes its way north or anywhere else in the Gulf, for that matter.
MATTINGLY: We push deeper, much deeper, no sign of oil down here, and almost no sign of life -- 1,000 feet down, we find a squid, some shrimp and just one little fish.
(on camera): OK. We have decided to move. Since we didn't see a lot of marine life in that location, we're going to go to a coral reef where there's an abundance of sea life. And we're going to see if the oil's had any effect there, and, again, another surprise. We find the reef and the coral, but:
Where are all the fish?
SNYDER: That's a good question.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): There were only a few fish here and there, so few and so unusual, I took our video to LSU oceanographer Kevin Boswell.
(on camera): Does that look normal to you?
KEVIN BOSWELL, LSU OCEANOGRAPHER: We would definitely expect to see more organisms.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Very familiar with the Gulf Coast reefs, Boswell had the same questions I did. Where did the fish go? And what are all those brown particles floating around?
BOSWELL: They definitely look a lot like those that we saw at the surface, where you deployed the ROV into the slick. They look very similar.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: So, nothing conclusive here. Scientific work is going to have to be done. Some studies will have to be done before we get any solid answers, but nothing really that we saw that was truly considered encouraging -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. David Mattingly for us tonight. David, thanks very much. Appreciate it. When we come back, we're going to have a whole lot more on this, two very personal views of the destruction. Our own Mary Matalin is -- was out in the Gulf this weekend. She had a fascinating tour of what's happening there.
But, first, President Obama is expected to speak about the oil spill on Thursday. That's after receiving the 30-day review that he ordered from Interior Secretary Ken Salazar.
With every new gallon of oil that pours into the Gulf, the White House does appear to be taking another hit for its response, despite assurances everything that can be done is being done.
This afternoon, I did speak with Coast Guard Commandant Admiral Thad Allen, who is leading the government's response.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Admiral, welcome to you.
Just this afternoon, we heard from the CEO of BP saying that they're doing all they can. I just want to play for folks a little bit of what he had to say to start out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAYWARD: ... knows that there is an enormous amount of anger and frustration on the part of the local communities. I share that. This is something I never wanted to see. And we're going to do everything in our power to deal with it as fast as we can and return the societies and communities of the Gulf Coast to normal as quickly as we can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Admiral, I don't have to tell you it's not just frustration in the Gulf Coast communities. It's across the country. People are really angry. And we're hearing a lot of that same frustration coming from the administration, Secretary Salazar saying the government may need to take this over if BP doesn't get its act together.
Tell me why we should feel confident that you and the folks from BP that you're working with have this situation under control?
ADMIRAL THAD ALLEN, U.S. COAST GUARD COMMANDANT: Well, there are three different battles being fought, Campbell. One is on the seafloor regarding the leak and the oil that's in the well. The second is the oil that's on the surface, trying to attack it offshore, and then in close to sure, where it's making contact.
In regards to the leak on the ocean floor, all the means of production, access, and the capability and capacity to fix the problem lie in the hands of the private sector. So, the role of the government there is to make sure they do their job, what they're doing is credible, that they have got a rational way forward and that it's being informed by the judgment of people in the administration and in the federal government and academia that question their assumptions. And we have been doing that for the last 10 or 14 days, especially in regard to the top kill shot that is coming up, Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Let's get specific about this latest effort, this top kill procedure that you're referencing that you're going to try later this week. BP giving it about a 60 percent chance of success, which are not great odds. What is -- and I feel like I keep asking this question, but if it doesn't work, what is the plan B?
ALLEN: There's a series of plans, Campbell.
First of all, they're going to try to put the high-pressure mud down the well to control the hydrocarbon pressure and then be able to put a cement plug in it to basically kill the well or contain the leak until they can drill a relief week.
If they're not successful in that, the next step would be to do what they call a junk shot, which is probably a bad metaphor, but small pieces of rubber and so forth that would actually clog the blowout preventer and make it easier to kill the well.
Following that, there are two options, sever the riser pipe and put a valve in or remove the entire lower marine riser package and put an absolutely new blowout preventer in. And all of those are being worked in parallel and would be sequenced after the top kill shot.
BROWN: So, give us a timeline here, or is that an impossible question?
ALLEN: Well, we actually had hoped we would do the top kill shot by yesterday. It's been extended out, because as they brought hydraulic power down to the units on the bottom where they have replaced their ability to control the wellhead, they have found that there are leaks and things they have to fix along the way.
This is a sequence of events that they're trying to do to get them into position they will be able to do this probably on Wednesday morning. So, the right processes are in place. They're running into delays that they need to solve technically to reduce the risk for this to move forward. But if it goes forward on Wednesday, I think 60 percent to 70 percent is about right.
BROWN: What we're hearing from the folks down in Louisiana, from Governor Jindal, from so of the parish presidents is that they have been pushing you to try to get permits to build barriers, barrier islands or sand dunes, essentially, further out to prevent the oil from reaching the shore, and that they can't get approval from you, from the federal government, in order to do what they think would be the best thing possible to try to preserve the wetlands and the shoreline down there.
How do you respond to them?
ALLEN: Well, Campbell, what the state has done, they have made an application to the Corps of Engineers to obtain their approval to build a series of berms and barrier islands.
The Corps of Engineers has to review this for executability and environmental impacts and so forth and make a determine that it can be done. Once that's done, it will be up to the state on how they want to move forward. The issue then will be whether or not this should be part of the overall response.
And I will tell you some of these projects are six to nine months, maybe even a year, to construct. And we're taking a hard look at the implications of that vs. what we need to do right now in the response. We're working in parallel with the Corps of Engineers, so they don't just finish and then we have to do something. And we're very close to making a decision and making a recommendation moving forward.
BROWN: But given the urgency here, because that's what you're hearing from Bobby Jindal, that's what you're hearing from these local leaders who are frantic -- they are just getting back on their feet post-Katrina. Shouldn't a good leader like yourself just throw out the rule book and put everything you have at it in order to try to deal with this situation, given the crisis that is in your hands right now?
ALLEN: There's a little bit of dichotomy in the problem description and the problem solution.
Taking six to nine months to build a barrier island or a berm is not a real quick solution to a crisis on hand. And I think where I would like to focus and I have focused, had a direct conversation with Tony Hayward, the CEO of BP, is our responsiveness on the oil on the shore and how good we're doing that. And I think that's where the focus has to be right now.
BROWN: Admiral Thad Allen, we really appreciate your time tonight. We certainly wish you the best of luck in getting through this. It's a real nightmare for you and all the folks down there. Thank you for your time.
ALLEN: Thank you, Campbell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And coming up in just a moment, a presidential historian with a tough take on what this oil disaster may cost President Obama.
And, as I mentioned earlier, some very personal views. Our own Mary Matalin went out into the Gulf this weekend. She's here to tell us about it, along with a local official who says it's time to throw people in jail for what happened to his coastline.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Nearly every question at today's White House briefing centered around the disaster in the Gulf. And the substance of the questions, why isn't the government doing more? In fact, in a brand- new CNN/Opinion Research poll, just over half of those surveyed disapprove of the administration's response.
BP, as you can imagine, didn't fair any better. More than three- quarters of those questioned disapprove of the way that BP has handled the spill.
CNN's Mary Matalin got an up-close look at the devastation. She joined Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal on the boat survey yesterday. And Mary is here tonight, along with presidential historian Doug Brinkley, who was a longtime resident of New Orleans and has been a great source of insight for us throughout this disaster.
Welcome to both of you.
Mary, tell us about this tour, what you saw out on the boat. How bad is it?
MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: It's heartbreaking. That word is getting to be overused, but is not like Wesson oil. It's like axle grease. And you touch it and you can't wash it off. And the birds, the wildlife, the marine life, they're covered with it and they're amberized. They can't move.
And, as they go in to save the birds, then their nests are abandoned. And this is one of the foremost rookeries and nurseries in the world, certainly in this hemisphere. So that is heartbreaking. And of course, on the shore, these are livelihoods. This is a way of life.
And to pick up where the commandant left, what the governor and the parish -- the coastal parish's number-one concern is now is that if we put up these sand berms, not the nine-month sand berms, but the land bridges, the tiger dams, and the -- fill in these gaps, we will prevent that axle grease and that oil from getting in these estuaries, getting up into these rookeries and killing everything in sight. There won't be anything to clean up, because it will all be dead.
And they have the resources. The government has the resources. They have not been deployed properly. There is no situational awareness to collect the oil before it hits the shore. And there's no real-time response. So, it's very frustrating. Nobody here is trying to be political. They just want to have the resources deployed.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: No, no, no, I agree with you. But I can't figure out what's going on. It is that the White House is just so and the administration and everybody involved is so focused on just trying to shut this thing down because the oil is still gushing out that they aren't thinking or as focused on what you're talking about?
I can't seem to get an answer as to why this is so complicated, if clearly that people do think they can do it in a much supporter period of time.
(CROSSTALK) MATALIN: Well, Admiral Allen is right, that BP should and is staying focused on stopping the leak. They have the know-how, the technology and they're really -- they are working it.
The problem with the -- not -- we're not talking about remediation and cleanup. We're talking about prevention at this point. The more we prevent, the less we have to clean up, the less degradation and devastation.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But you heard him say six to nine months to get those built. You disagree with that, obviously.
MATALIN: But he's talking about -- he's talking about building an entire barrier island. The governor is talking about -- and the sand exists and the (INAUDIBLE) sand exists. They have the dredges ready. They know how to do it. They asked for an emergency permit three weeks ago that's not really in the Coast Guard's province. It goes to the Corps of Engineers, who is asking for an environmental impact study.
They have given them everything they have asked for. That's a different thing. What is -- so, that that's putting -- the president can authorize the emergency permit and start building those things immediately.
What Bobby -- what the governor and the parish president showed yesterday is where these temporary berms and land bridges are, where they are stopping the oil.
BROWN: Right.
MATALIN: We're not talking -- and why everyone suspects down here and the problem is that BP has to sign off on everything because otherwise there is a concern by the government, will they lose the ability to make them pay, if they don't sign off on it?
So, the bottleneck and the unified command structure that the admiral does oversee is a bottleneck. What needs to happen is real- time response, which could be deputized, if you will, to the parishes. There is a way to do this in real time.
BROWN: Right. It's amazing. I mean, it sounds like bureaucracy at its worst at a crisis moment.
And, Doug, a bunch of administration officials, congressional leaders, they went down to Louisiana to try to assess the damage, and presumably speed up this whole process. And the administration is definitely beginning to catch more heat here.
And you're hearing, I think, tougher talk in response to that. But give me your assessment of how well they have done so far and how much pressure is on the president right now.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, right now the whole country has to watch whether this shot that BP has with this top kill within 48 hours works or not.
I would say it's 50/50 at best. If that does not work, we have a real problem. We have that gushing oil probably going on until August. And it is going to affect a lot of places, not just the areas Mary looked at in the offshore islands and the wetlands, Florida, Alabama, Texas.
I think that the president has to get control over this situation. Right now, there is a feeling in the country that it is BP's in charge, but BP is the one that has been grossly negligent in the Gulf of Mexico. Here are some powerful things the president can do.
First off, I think in 48 hours he goes -- he goes to the American people at night on television. Tell them about what's happening in the Gulf. Talk about what's being lost down there. Secondly, possibly freeze BP America's assets in the United States. The Justice Department needs to start and speed up its probe on BP.
And how can BP right now be drilling relief wells while they're doing all of this? I think BP needs to be stripped of doing the relief wells. Have Chevron, ExxonMobil -- BP pays the bill for the relief wells, but another company -- to another company and bring other oil companies into the mix here.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: But how much -- how much does -- is on the president? I mean, we recognize BP's responsible. But you heard Thad Allen say, they're all we have got. They are the ones who have the expertise and the materials to address this. We have to work with them in order to get this resolved.
So, at the end of the day, if it's not getting resolved certainly quickly enough, how much is on the president's shoulders? What price could we pay?
BRINKLEY: It's a huge price, because...
MATALIN: You know...
BRINKLEY: Go ahead, Mary.
MATALIN: One thing he can quit doing -- I'm agreeing with everything Doug is saying, but what they should quit doing is saying they have their boot on the neck of BP.
They don't have a ballet slipper on the neck of anybody. I would add to Doug's list, which would help the president with his politics, but substantively what the president could do is disrupt or command the commandant to disrupt or reorganize that unified command, so there is real-time and situational awareness.
These parish presidents and their fishermen, in conjunction with the National Guard, could get that done. We could be working on that immediately, instead of trying to figure out who's going to pay and all of that.
BROWN: Right.
MATALIN: That is down the road. That will happen. Let's work it now.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Doug, go ahead.
BRINKLEY: I think Governor Bobby Jindal has really come into the zone right now. I think he is really showing great leadership. He is correct about these barrier islands, for another plus of them is they become buffers, those offshore barrier islands for hurricane season.
Remember, we have got that coming up in the next months, while all this oil is coming out. This is a possible real catastrophe for the Gulf south. And it's not about lawyering up now. It's about plugging the hole and the president taking control over the situation, appointing a high commissioner, somebody who can oversee this.
Thad Allen had a different comment about BP, saying there's nothing we can do, than Ken Salazar did over the weekend. And there's a lot of infighting. Look at Interior. There's -- Fish and Wildlife has one view, but MMS has had another view.
We need an independent task force immediately on the ground to treat this as a worst-case scenario, not a kind of hope that BP's going to plug it in 48 hours or a hope that it's going to get better in a month or two. We have got to act as if a worst-case scenario was coming.
That's what leadership is. And I haven't been feeling enough of it from this White House.
BROWN: And it's amazing that, after Katrina, that we haven't learned these lessons, seemingly. And so many of the mistakes are being repeated.
Doug Brinkley and Mary Matalin, really appreciate your time. We will be talking with you a lot more about this obviously in the coming days.
We're going to take a quick break. Just ahead, under attack from all sides, BP still growing defiant here -- why the oil company is refusing an order to stop using a toxic chemical in the cleanup.
And with oil now pushing 12 miles into Louisiana's fragile wetlands -- you're looking at the pictures there -- local leaders demanding actions. You heard Mary there talking about the parish president. One of the angriest parish presidents, Billy Nungesser, is going to be with here -- with us very shortly to talk about what's going on right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: A dangerous mix of oil and toxic chemicals now pushing as much as 12 miles into Louisiana marshlands. It is threatening dozens of endangered species and billions in revenues from area fisheries desperate to fight back.
Local leaders, as we have been reporting, immediately came up with this plan to try to block the oil from entering the channels that lead to the wetlands. But, today, this is 35 days after the geyser first erupted, they're still waiting for federal approval.
Just yesterday on that Gulf Coast boat tour with Governor Bobby Jindal, parish president Billy Nungesser ripped into the governor, demanding action. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY NUNGESSER, PRESIDENT, PLAQUEMINES PARISH, LOUISIANA: Leaders don't give excuses. They solve problems. But they're in our way. If they're not going to help, get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out the way. This is absolutely ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And Billy Nungesser is joining us right now from Venice, Louisiana.
Welcome to you. Appreciate your time.
I know a lot of your frustration is stemming from the fact that you you're convinced that this plan would have prevented, could be now preventing some of the oil from coming ashore. But the government will not give you the green light to implement it.
Explain to folks -- we have talked about it a little bit tonight, but what is it that you guys want to try to do.
NUNGESSER: Well, we have a plan, a coastal plan, which is a large island out there. We have modified that to a six-foot berm across coastal Louisiana that would catch the oil.
And it would also give us some protection if a small storm in hurricane condition tried to pick that oil up and drop it into the marsh. So, we came up with six foot, which was a reasonable amount of protection. It was a great plan.
For the first time ever, all the environmental groups, nobody objected to this plan. They had concerns. We addressed those concerns. But everyone knew that the alternative to doing nothing was what we're seeing today, the wildlife and marshes being destroyed. And shame on us for not doing this 35 days ago.
BROWN: Now, I spoke with admiral Thad Allen earlier in the show. I asked him about your proposal. I know you guys have been waiting on this permit. And he says a big part of the problem is it would just take too long, six to nine months. NUNGESSER: Well, I don't know where Admiral Allen, how many dredges he has worked in his life or where he's getting his opinion from, but we have got the experts in the industry that do this for a living.
And I beg to differ with him. And when I asked his staff where did they get that number from, they couldn't give me an answer. And in the first day that we put the dredge in the water, you will see a berm come out the water and start catching oil. Had we started this -- and I have been talking for 35 days -- about every week, we could see five to 10 miles of berm out of the water. That's five to ten miles we wouldn't have to fight with boom, we wouldn't have to worry about this oil that is being sprayed going under the surface and coming ashore and surprising us as it's done throughout coastal Louisiana. So, as I rely on the experts to give me advice before we put a plan together, I suggest the coast guard do the same and quit just throwing out reasons to kill a plan.
Show me a better plan. Admiral, show me something you're going to do to save our marsh because you've done nothing up to this point. I mean quit chopping up someone else here. You know, a true leader steps up and works with someone. Let's mow the dredges, work out our differences on the way to going to work. But let's go to work. We're sitting on our hands doing nothing. There is no leader stepping up to the plate. This is absolutely ridiculous.
BROWN: As you're talking right now, we've been showing people these pictures. And it -- it's tough to even watch. You were out there on the boat. I know you've been out in the middle of all of this. Tell us how bad it is. What does it look like?
NUNGESSER: It's worse than what you're seeing. The birds that are so oiled they can't fly when you approach them. They all crawl up into the marsh and hide because they can't get away. We've seen pelicans sit there in the water and flush themselves over and over until they're exhausted and can't even crawl back to shore trying to get this oil off of their backs. They're not sitting on their nests. Their off spring will not hatch. And we're not talking about a few birds. We're talking about thousands of birds. And this will destroy. This will put the pelican back on the endanger species list if it survives.
It may not survive this. This is absolutely -- it ought to be criminal. It ought to be criminal. And then they hear today that BP is going to put 500 million towards research and studies? That sounds like the federal government. We're going to study what we destroyed. That makes a lot of sense. You know, when they ask Admiral Allen are you doing everything physically possible, he didn't say yes. He didn't say no. He said that nasty word, BP. Ask BP, they point to the coast guard. We're looking for a leader to step up to the plate. Take charge. Do something. They're doing absolutely nothing.
BROWN: So --
NUNGESSER: And this is -- you know, we're asking the president of the United States, put somebody in charge that can get the job done and quit passing the buck, tearing plans apart. Show us a plan. Show us something.
BROWN: So what can you do? I mean you're clearly incensed with good reason that this is not being dealt with in a much more urgent fashion. I know you're trying to figure something out with them about trying to get approval for these berms. What can you do right now? I know you have a meeting scheduled with BP tomorrow. What do you want to hear from them? What are you going demand from them?
NUNGESSER: I'm going to give them 24 hours to step up to the plate and then I'm pulling out all stops. We will, Thursday, my council will give me $1 million to start. To show you how everyone is onboard with this plan, environmental groups, fisheries, we had $100,000 raised online from people that aren't making a living to fund pumping this river sentiment, to pumping this sentiment and building the barrier islands because everyone down here knows it will work. Except we got someone in Washington calling the shots that don't have a clue. But he thinks he can be done in six months. Tell me where you got that information. These dredges are ready to go.
The corps of engineers, it said we'll pull them off the projects. Currently work for two weeks on in project. Enthusiastic about helping us get it started. That Monday when he walked into the airport, we and the governor, he had his head hung down. You could see he was not happy with the news he had to deliver. It came from higher up. Not to go forward with this project.
BROWN: Billie Nungesser, we really appreciate you coming on with your passion. We are going to try to get some answers to those questions. And I hope you'll come back on the show and stay on top of this as we all try to hopefully see some more urgent action in the next couple of days. Really wishing you the best of luck with this.
NUNGESSER: Thank you so much.
BROWN: We're going to take a quick break. In just a moment, he was an instant American hero after his ship was attacked by deadly pirates. But tonight, his crew members are accusing him of actually being something else altogether. That story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Our number one international story tonight, rising tensions with North Korea. The troubled began two months ago in March with the sinking of a South Korean warship, the (inaudible) Pyongyang, and now, the Pentagon has joined in turning up the heat on the north by announcing joint U.S. military exercises with South Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The exercises are indeed very focused. One set of exercises will focus on anti-submarine warfare, operating under the ocean surface, hunting bad guys all related to this torpedo attack that sunk the South Korean ship. The other exercise will be about maritime surveillance, tracking North Korean shipping all around the Pacific Rim. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president announced all South Korean shipping lanes are now closed to North Korean vessels. Military readiness would be upgraded and all trade and exchanges with the north are suspended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have always tolerated North Korea's brutality, time and again. We did so because we have a genuine longing for peace on the Korean peninsula, but now, things are different.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We asked North Korea to stop its provocative behavior, halt its policy of threats and belligerence toward its neighbors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: A Pentagon spokesman would not say when the military exercises will take place.
Coming up next, some surprising news about violent crime in America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Still ahead, why a crew kidnapped by pirates now claims it was their captain's fault. But first, Tom Foreman has a look at some of the other stories we're following tonight. Tom, what you got?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Campbell. Some encouraging statistics on crime today. An FBI report shows violent crime down 5.5 percent in 2009, the third straight year to show a decrease. Declines were seen across the board, murders, rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults. The agency, however, did not offer reasons for the drop.
A state of emergency in Kingston, Jamaica tonight. Masked gunmen have attacked three police stations and blocked parts of the city all to protect a reputed drug lord, Christopher Coke. At least two security guards have been wounded. The violence is over the possible extradition of Coke to the U.S. where he's charged with drugs and arms trafficking.
A turning point for U.S. forces in Afghanistan. For the first time, the number of U.S. forces there is larger than the number of U.S. troops in Iraq. The Pentagon says there are now 94,000 U.S. forces in Afghanistan and 92,000 serving in Iraq.
And some happy news for the three Americans in an Iranian prison. Two of the hikers want to marry. The mothers of Shane Bauer and Sarah Shourd say the couple were dating are now engaged. Josh Fattal, the third captured American will be their best man when they get their freedom -- Campbell.
BROWN: Wow. I hope they get some good news on that front and in the not-so-distant future. Tom Foreman, thank you very much, Tom.
Coming up, his ship was invaded by pirates, his crew held hostage, but now, some of the Maersk Alabama sailors say that their captain was no hero.
Also, Fergie caught on tape. How do the royals deal with something like a mortifying money making scheme?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Last year, Captain Richard Phillips became a hero after being rescued at sea during a daring navy seal mission in the Indian Ocean. It was all after a terrifying ordeal where his ship was hacked and boarded by Somali pirates, but now, CNN's Drew Griffin says nearly all of the captain's crew is claiming that he caused the ship to be attacked in the first place.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Captain Richard Phillips is not used to criticism even though a lawsuit has been filed by some members of his crew against the shipping company for creating a near disaster at sea. He says that this interview is the first he's heard of their specific complaints, questioning his judgment and even his reasoning.
The complaint is that there were specific e-mails sent to your ship stressing the need to go further out to sea.
CAPT. RICHARD PHILLIPS, MAERSK ALABAMA: Yes, something like that. We deal with that in the arena that they wish and that's the court. That's where this based on (ph).
GRIFFIN: We showed him excerpts of CNN interviews with his ex- crew including the third engineering officer onboard the Maersk Alabama, John Crony.
Let me play you just -- I don't think you've seen these crew members since they -- they've left your ship.
JOHN CRONAN, 3RD ENGINEER, MAERSK ALABAMA: Unbeknownst to us at the time, Captain Phillips had been warned at least nine times via e- mail from confident authorities to get that ship further off shore, hundreds of miles further off shore.
GRIFFIN: Why would he say that?
PHILLIPS: I have no idea.
GRIFFIN: Is it true?
PHILLIPS: There are warnings put out. I don't know what authority is talking about. He doesn't say.
GRIFFIN: Well, I have the e-mails.
PHILLIPS: Yes?
GRIFFIN: You've seen the e-mails.
PHILLIPS: I haven't seen the e-mails since I've been on the ship.
GRIFFIN: But you were warned to go further out to sea.
PHILLIPS: We were warned to stay clear of an area, yes.
GRIFFIN: And you didn't.
PHILLIPS: We were within -- we come from Djibouti which on the north side of Somalia. That's right next to Somalia. We're going to Mombassa which was along the south side. So, we're in the area. We were almost 300 miles out during our incident.
GRIFFIN: We checked U.S. navy records of the incident. They indicate Phillips about 380 miles off the Somali coast and, remember, the e-mails warned about pirates and urged captains to stay 600 miles off the coast.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Burlington, Vermont.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And tonight on "AC 360," Drew will have more on exactly why captain Phillips' crew is speaking up now in his exclusive CNN special investigation.
"Larry King Live" starts in just a few minutes. And Larry, I know you're going to be focusing on the royal family's royal drama tonight. What do you got?
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Despite having a cold, we forge forward, Campbell. Tonight, the Duchess of York is apologizing after being caught on tape trying to sell access to her ex-husband, Prince Andrew, for money. We'll show you some shocking tapes.
Also, a Beverly Hills judge laid down the law with Lindsay Lohan who finally appeared in court today after missing her hearing last week. Can she save herself and her career? we'll see.
And then Brittany Murphy's husband is found dead just months after she died in the same house. We'll have some clips from one of his last interviews. It's all ahead on "Larry King Live" -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. And Larry, we hope you're feeling better soon.
KING: Thank you.
BROWN: We'll be watching tonight. And then in just a few moments, a royal watcher will be joining us to dissect what happened in Fergie's very humiliating hidden camera stunt as well. We'll see you in a minute.
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BROWN: An introduction to Prince Andrew in exchange for over $700,000. It is a royal scandal, and the prince's ex-wife, Sarah Ferguson, is behind it. She appears to be desperate for cash making a deal with a businessman for access to the prince. One catch, he is really an undercover reporter. Check out the sting operation that has exposed Fergie's plan to get out of debt. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we want to do a big deal with and then that's the big one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do, of course. OK. No, of course. So, you need 500,000 in pounds?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that's in wire transfer. Then that, is then like you open up all the channels whatever you need, whatever you want, and then you meet Andrew and that's fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And joining me now with more on how all this went down is Nicholas Wapshott. He's a former New York bureau chief of the "Times of London." He's also the author of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, "A political Marriage."
Nicholas, I got to ask you, "Forbes" magazine estimates the queen of England is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Lady Di I think walked away with $20 million after her divorce. So, it's hard for us to get our arms around the idea or our heads around the idea that a royal could be broke. How come she doesn't have any money?
NICHOLAS WAPSHOTT, FMR. BUREAU CHIEF/TIMES OF LONDON: It's all magical, isn't it? I mean, she must have a very good alimony arrangement with Prince Andrew.
BROWN: You would think.
WAPSHOTT: You would think which she does. There's no doubt about that. And she's just gone through the money. And she had to deal with Weight Watchers which was about $3 million. That's all gone. She had a book publishing deal. She did children's books. All that money is gone. She had her own company which $2 million was invested in it. It sank with $1 million in debt. She is just spender (ph). She just rattles through the money. She makes things very fast crowd and she travels first class. She always has a car, dropping outside, waiting. And it's unimaginable the way that she can burn through money.
BROWN: So, what she did here, did she break any laws? Or is this just incredibly bad behavior?
WAPSHOTT: Well, I mean it's obviously very bad for the family, isn't it? Because she's betrayed them. But there is a sort of form of treachery because Prince Andrew is employed by the government through the civil less (ph). They give him money in order to deal with it is with (INAUDIBLE) and handling influence you would imagine would be against the law. She must have done something, but I doubt that she's ever going to be prosecuted for this. It's the last thing that Britain wants is to see --
BROWN: Is even a bigger scandal.
WAPSHOTT: Exactly. To see Fergie in the jail.
BROWN: So, tell us about this because Fergie said the whole incident was a very serious lapse in judgment. She's very apologetic. She made it clear that Prince Andrew had nothing to do with this scheme. Buckingham Palace putting out the same basic message, but there are those who are saying that may actually not be the case.
WAPSHOTT: Well, of course you don't know how many times she's done this before. This was a sting. So, she got caught on tape.
BROWN: Right.
WAPSHOTT: She might have done it before. I think it's unlikely, though, that Prince Andrew is going to be -- he may well do as he's told. They do have a very close friendship. They've been divorced for 15 years.
BROWN: I was going to say, they're still very close, right?
WAPSHOTT: Yes, they had a marriage for ten years. They've been divorced for 15 years and remain really they're best friends, both of them. And I think that he probably does do or it hasn't until recently done exactly what she's asked him to do, but I think it's most unlikely for finally unlikely that Prince Andrew knows of any wrongdoing.
BROWN: So, do you know how she connected or hooked up with this undercover reporter to begin with?
WAPSHOTT: This is a guy who is very ingenious, and he specializes in exactly this sort of sting. He's dressed up as arrows (ph) before now and tried to bribe members of parliament. So, this is actually his modus operandi.
BROWN: Very clever.
WAPSHOTT: Very clever. And that's why there are no pictures of him. And whenever you see them, they're smudged out. So, you don't recognize him. He will go out to catch someone else.
BROWN: Wow. It's a fascinating story. Really appreciate your time. Thanks for coming on and giving us your insight.
WAPSHOTT: Pleasure.
BROWN: "Larry King Live" is going to start in just a few minutes, but up next, tonight's punch line. Here is a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everywhere you go today, people are talking about "Lost," but enough about the stock market, let's move on. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: It's time for tonight's "Punch Line." Our round up of the best of late night. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty-five years ago, Charles Lindbergh flew across the Atlantic all by himself. Thirty-three hours, all he had was a sandwich and a jar to urinate in. Today, we call that JetBlue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a new interview on ABC's "Nightline," Jesse James said he's probably the most hated man in the world. Yes. Then the CEO of BP was like, dude, don't flatter yourself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're going to try something new. They're going to try what they called like top kill. That's where they shove a fluid that looks a lot like mud down into the well. I hope this works because the next idea --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That's it for us. You can follow me any time on Twitter. "Larry King Live" is starting right now.
