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Nancy Grace
Man Who Claimed JonBenet Ramsey Killing Accused of Cyber-Stalking
Aired May 25, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. After he`s extradited home from Thailand, the sex trade capital of the world, after he says he wants to climb into the coffin of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey to have sex with her dead body, the man who confesses to killing the 6-year-old beauty queen emerges back on the scene.
Bombshell tonight. That man, John Mark Karr, now wanted for cyber- stalking. His alleged victim, a teenage girl. But why can`t police nab him this time? Karr believed to be disguised as a woman, even changing his name to Alexis Valoren (ph) Reich, hiding out at a Seattle battered women`s shelter. The teen victim meets Karr at just 9 years old, Karr a substitute teacher. The two reconnect over video chat and e-mail. But when she tries to break things off, John Mark Karr threatens murder.
And tonight, is history repeating itself? Tonight Karr also accused of attempting to form a cult, a cult of JonBenet Ramsey look-alikes, little girls, all blond, he calls "the immaculate." That`s sick. After John Mark Karr slips through the cracks on child pornography found on his personal computer, tonight he`s back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man who once claimed he killed JonBenet Ramsey...
JOHN MARK KARR, FORMER SUSPECT: I love JonBenet.
That`s my little girl.
... died accidentally...
She`s mine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... has allegedly been cyber-stalking a teen who says John Mark Karr threatened to kill her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
KARR: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nineteen-year-old Samantha Spiegel says she first met Karr...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... John Mark Karr...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... when she was 9 years old...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... mentally unstable...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and he was her substitute teacher at school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... attention...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... twisted sense of logic...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... unwell...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They reconnected over video chat and e-mail.
SAMANTHA SPIEGEL, ALLEGED VICTIM: Well, he didn`t want me talking to males of any sort.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That sent shivers through my spine.
SPIEGEL: ... e-mails constantly...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But when Spiegel tried to break it off with him...
KARR: There are so many exceptional little girls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Karr allegedly threatened to kill her.
KARR: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spiegel has since filed a restraining order against Karr...
KARR: No comment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and San Francisco police say the are investigating.
KARR: I can`t (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to multiple reports, Karr has had a sex change and is now living as a woman.
KARR: I`m a real loyal person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Court documents show Karr legally changed his name to Alexis Reich in 2008.
KARR: I have a real strong character.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Karr has not yet been arrested for this incident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight live, Texas. A Girl Scout talks to Mommy after school, then never seen alive again, even missing the "Alice in Wonderland" birthday party she planned with a friend. No cell phone activity, no text messages, nothing. Tonight, where is Girl Scout Ali?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New developments today in the case of missing Girl Scout, 16-year-old Ali Lowitzer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... the high school sophomore you see in this home video...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... last seen on the school bus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She got off her school bus just feet from her house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In fact, we have surveillance shots of Ali leaving the bus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was going to walk to work and pick up her paycheck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ali never made it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was the last that I talked to her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and no one has seen her since.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just feel when something`s not right, when something`s wrong. And that`s the feeling I got, something is wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) she was wearing that day (INAUDIBLE) checkered pants, black shoes, missing cell phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While no evidence of foul play has been found, Ali`s family is sure she`s been kidnapped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... to this day...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing has been found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I send her a text every night before I go to bed, just hoping that sometime, I`ll get a reply.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just need to know you`re OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After he is extradited home from Thailand, the sex trade capital of the world, after he says he wants to climb into the coffin of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey and have sex with her dead body, the man who confesses to killing the 6-year-old beauty queen emerges back on the scene. John Mark Karr tonight wanted for cyber-stalking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARR: I have (EXPLETIVE DELETED) tolerated this (EXPLETIVE DELETED)- up world. The little twisted bastards...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... reports of him supposedly getting a little too friendly with the female students...
KARR: ... thinking I`m a monster. Do I want to eat you or do I want to have sex with you? They don`t even know who I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... John Mark Karr...
KARR: Protecting people who are innocent is important to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the man who once falsely admitted to killing beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey...
KARR: Her death was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... is reportedly under investigation for cyber- stalking.
KARR: It was so obvious, and there was no way I could hide it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Samantha Spiegel told "Inside Edition" that she first met Karr when she was 9...
KARR: I always had this little entourage of little girls around me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and later reconnected with him through the Internet.
KARR: I`ve known hundreds of children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 19-year-old claims that when she tried to stop communication...
SPIEGEL: ... E-mails constantly...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Karr threatened to kill her.
SPIEGEL: ... and if I don`t respond quickly enough, I get, you know, five more angry e-mails.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spiegel has since filed and was granted a restraining order barring Karr from having any contact with her.
KARR: I`m just very possessive of her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports have emerged Karr has become a woman, changing his legal name and appearance...
KARR: Answering all the questions is not what`s important to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... which Spiegel says he did only to get closer to young girls.
KARR: No one deserves a confession from me. No one deserves it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Nia Bender, news director Newstalk 710 KNUS, Nia Bender joining us from Denver, Colorado. What can you tell us, Nia?
NIA BENDER, NEWSTALK 710 KNUS: He`s the creep that won`t go away, that`s what he is. Well, you know, he fell out of the limelight for a little while, and obviously, he`s hit the news in a big way now. Now, we all heard he`d had a sex change a while ago and was dressing as a female. Apparently, he reconnected with Samantha Spiegel about after about a 10- year break, and that`s when all of this started.
But her parents interfered with that. They put her in rehab. She had a drug problem. And he would send her e-mails saying, I can help you with your drug problem, I can help you with this. And I think what he did, basically, was to make her feel as though she had someone who cared about her very, very much. He pretty much preyed on her.
Basically, the parents tore her away from that relationship, put her in rehab, and she`s wanted to change things ever since. But he has threatened her with things like, If you interfere with me and my little girls, then I will -- I will kill you.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. John Mark Karr, the man who confesses he murdered JonBenet Ramsey, the case that has never been laid to rest, has now reemerged on the scene, last spotted at a Seattle battered women`s shelter. How? Because he apparently is now disguised as a woman, even going so far as to change his last name.
Out to the lines. Kalan in Canada. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. First off, may I say it`s an honor and privilege to be speaking with you. Your passion for justice comes across in each and every one of your shows. And I also love to see pictures of Lucy and John David. You absolutely glow when you speak about them. You`re wonderful, Nancy!
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you so much. It`s hard working and taking care of the twins, but it`s the best job I ever had. So Nia, what do you - - excuse me. So Kalan, what do you think about this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I mean, I think this man, or freak, is obviously mentally unstable. So my question is, why has he not been committed to a psychiatric hospital? Why is he free to roam the streets?
GRACE: Good question. Joining us, Jean Casarez, legal correspondent "In Session." She`s been on the story since all the way back in 2006, when she covered John Mark Karr`s arrest right here on our show. Jean Casarez, you and I both knew we had not heard the last of John Mark Karr.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": That`s right. And in 2006, he was in the midst of all of this because it was in 2001 in northern California, he was charged with child pornography, several counts of that. What happened after that, he went to court, he pleaded not guilty. And guess what? He left the jurisdiction.
That`s when he went to Thailand and Asia and Europe, promoting himself as a teacher of young children. And it was in Thailand in 2006 that he admitted, confessed, that he was the one that had murdered JonBenet Ramsey, and that led him coming back to the United States.
GRACE: And Jean Casarez, remember those volumes, those reams of phone conversations, secretly tapped phone conversations recording John Mark Karr and his obsession with JonBenet Ramsey? Remember those? Some of them I wouldn`t even play on the air, they were so creepy.
CASAREZ: That along with e-mails. So it`s the same modus operandi. He sent e-mails to the University of Colorado professor saying that he loved JonBenet, saying that he had murdered JonBenet, and that is what led to him being in Boulder, Colorado. But in the ultimate, they did not file charges against him.
GRACE: From one e-mail -- "Yes, she would have been the object of more intense love and worship. I would give anything to have her with me at 6. Alas, she would now be nearing sweet 16. She will forever be 6, though not preserved as I would have wanted it. It would have been my wish that she had not had a blemish on her when she was laid to rest in her lovely wooden casket. What I would not have given to have crawled in beside her in that casket and made love to her once more."
If I could get my hands around his neck! But how many other prosecutors have said the same thing, and he has eluded prosecutors ever since. Out to you, Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. You covered the case way back when. What happened to his child pornography charges, the images found on his personal computer, child pornography?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. That`s right, Nancy. Prosecutors allege that they found five images of children engaged in sexual activity on his computer. But here`s what happened. After he fled the jurisdiction, as Jean explained, in 2001, the case languished. When he came to light again in 2006, they tried to charge him, but they had lost the laptop...
GRACE: Oh!
JOSTAD: ... that had those images. So even though they had printouts of it, they decided not to go forward with charges.
GRACE: Well, it`s very simple. You`ve got to have the highest and best evidence. It`s a prosecutor`s favorite friend in court. You`ve got to have the best evidence, and a Xerox copy of the child porn ain`t going to cut it in court! The prosecution lost the laptop. It`s on them.
Joining me right now is a very special guest out of LA. It is Robin Sax. She is the attorney for John Mark Karr`s alleged stalking victim, Samantha Spiegel. Robin Sax, I understand that John Mark Karr actually met your client when she was just a 9-year-old school girl. And how he did it I don`t know, but he was substitute teacher when he met her?
ROBIN SAX, ATTORNEY FOR SAMANTHA SPIEGEL: He was. He was a substitute teacher in the classroom next door to Samantha, and you know, was a very enthralling, engaging person even way back then.
GRACE: At this point, Robin, she`s still afraid of John Mark Karr. Is it true, according to her, that he has threatened to kill her?
SAX: Oh, yes. A lot of threats to her, and the most recent just as recent as April of 2010, actual threats to hurt her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you innocent?
KARR: I love JonBenet, and she died accidentally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My sense from the e-mails is that you want to help. You want some closure for Patsy. And you want maybe closure for yourself.
KARR: Yes, maybe it`s an issue of closure, but it`s just also -- it`s just -- I`ve always been a very open person with my immediate family. They knew everything about my sexuality, and I was never -- I never hid that from them, no matter how unpopular it was. And it was. It was just the most unpopular thing in my life. But it was so obvious, and there was no way I could hide it. I mean, I`ve always had all this little -- I`ve always had this little entourage of little girls around me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Rosie, I don`t want to hear that particular sound anymore because I don`t want to hear about his sexuality. I don`t care about John Mark Karr`s sexuality. This is what I know. I know that right now, there`s a teenage girl who claims that he is stalking her and allegedly threatening to kill her.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Donna in Canada. Hi, Donna.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on your recent award. My question is, can he be picked up on a mental health act and be evaluated and held if found to be a danger to society and for uttering threats? Thanks, friend.
GRACE: Good question. Good question, Donna in Canada. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, David Cooke, the chief of the special victims unit, Houston County DA`s office, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta, Paul Batista, defense attorney and author of "Death`s Witness," joining out of our New York studios.
First to you, David Cooke. Can he be arrested for being a threat on the public? I don`t think so, or half the people walking up and down 3rd Avenue would be arrested right now.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: They all look threatening to me.
DAVID COOKE, SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT, HOUSTON CTY. DA`S OFFICE: Nancy, you`re right. I don`t think they can take a mental health warrant for him just because he`s a threat to himself or others in that respect. What they can do, though, is they can get him for the threats that he`s already made, the terroristic threats and the aggravated stalking that he appears to be committing.
GRACE: Robin Sax, the attorney for John Mark Karr`s alleged stalking victim, a teenager, Samantha Spiegel, has it been reported to police? Is there a police report? And if not, why?
SAX: Yes, there is a police report. There was a police report made, I believe, in March or April of this year. And not only are we getting assistance from the San Francisco Police Department, but now we have shaken things up a bit to get some interest from the Seattle Police Department, as well.
GRACE: Yes. You know, Robin Sax, I couldn`t imagine you on a case without there being a police report. OK -- because that`s step one. You`ve got to get police in every jurisdiction on the case.
Back to the lawyers, Raymond Giudice, Paul Batista. First, Ray Giudice, just go ahead and give me your best shot.
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I guess the best thing you can try to defend him on is on the terrorist threat, the...
GRACE: I want to see Giudice`s face!
GIUDICE: OK, I`m ready for you -- that the threat, because of the distance, is not a plausible, realistic threat. Is he sending it over the Internet? He`s in another state. She has not reasonable apprehension of her fear and safety.
GRACE: You don`t know where he is!
GIUDICE: That`s right.
GRACE: He could be in her back yard looking through the bushes right now!
GIUDICE: But earlier in the show, you said that he was in shelters...
GRACE: Last...
GIUDICE: ... in California...
GRACE: ... spotted in a...
GIUDICE: ... and she was in Seattle.
GRACE: ... Seattle women`s shelter! Get -- get...
GIUDICE: I`m giving -- I`m giving...
GRACE: ... the hearing (INAUDIBLE)
GIUDICE: I`m giving you my best argument, that he did not create...
GRACE: She`s in Seattle and...
(CROSSTALK)
GIUDICE: ... put her in reasonable fear and apprehension for her safety.
GRACE: OK.
GIUDICE: That`s the defense.
GRACE: Paul Batista -- Paul Batista, do you have anything else you can fire at me?
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let them go get a warrant for his arrest, which they don`t have, and arrest him. They don`t have that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why that night and why did you do it? Do you have any sense about yourself?
KARR: I don`t know. I`m very sentimental.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re very sentimental?
KARR: Yes. I mean, you know, I like special nights, special -- special nights. It was a special night. It was Christmas night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARR: Her death was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you were in the basement?
KARR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us your connection to the Ramsey family?
KARR: No comment on that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did you get into the basement?
KARR: No comment on that.
SPIEGEL: Well, he didn`t want me talking to males of any sort, E- mails constantly, I mean, back and forth. And if I don`t respond quickly enough, I get, you know, five more angry e-mails saying, like, Where`d you go? Where`d you go?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing victim, alleged victim, Samantha Spiegel on "Inside Edition" talking about those threatening e-mails from John Mark Karr. Yes, he`s back. Exactly where, we don`t know. He was last spotted at a battered women`s center, a shelter in Seattle, taking on the persona of a woman. And according to those in his inner circle, it`s because he believes, disguised as a woman, he can get closer to little girls.
Back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent "In Session." She`s been on the case since Karr`s arrest in Thailand in 2006, his extradition home. Tell me about his attempt to form some type of a cult of JonBenet Ramsey look-alikes, little girls, all blond, and call them the "immaculates"?
CASAREZ: Right. And that`s where the alleged victim comes in because they had a relationship on the computer for about two years, and that`s when her family removed her and took her to a facility to try to rehabilitate herself.
But during that time, he had allegedly brainwashed her to help him recruit women for this group of young girls that were blond, that had small feet, that would remind him of JonBenet Ramsey. There`s even one e-mail where he says, I wanted you to get me that girl, and you refused. It was the most incriminating thing I ever said to you, which I think is a very interesting statement.
GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us out of New York. Dr. Saunders, you`ve seen it all. Weigh in.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think it`s far too easy to say this guy`s just crazy. He`s creepy. I think this guy is a psychopath. He...
GRACE: Don`t even say "creepy." This is beyond creepy, Dr. Saunders. Give it another try, Doctor.
SAUNDERS: Malignant narcissism. This is a Hannibal Lecter wannabe for pedophiles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that why you`ve been contemplating basically -- you know, basically `fessing up? That`s an English phrase -- confessing.
KARR: I don`t know. I don`t want to confess to anything. No one deserves a confession from me. No one deserves it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MARK KARR, FORMER JONBENET SUSPECT: I could just live my life in obscurity quite well, as I have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
KARR: I mean why come out of obscurity and reveal myself and take a chance and make -- take risks that I might be caught. Why do that? I don`t know. It`s -- I`m compelled to do it for the strangest of reasons.
It`s for JonBenet in a way and in another way it`s just like to tell the -- to shout at the world, listen, that`s my little girl. She`s mine and this is why.
I lost her and I can`t even visit her grave anymore and I can`t even rush to her mother`s side, who requests seeing her at her grave, which is killing me right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls tonight live. Breaking news tonight. The man who once confessed to the murder of 6-year-old Denver beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey is back. Now allegedly stalking a teenage girl.
We are taking your calls. Out to Chrysty in North Carolina. Hi, dear.
CHRYSTY, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Miss Grace, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CHRYSTY: My question is how did he become a substitute teacher? And my comment is the deputies that lost the computer I hope they sleep well at night.
GRACE: You know --
CHRYSTY: And this man does not deserve to take his next breath.
GRACE: You know, the losing that laptop, I just can`t get past that. I know mistakes happen. I know they happen. But in a case connected to the potential rape and murder of a little girl, child pornography? It`s unacceptable that that evidence was lost.
But back to you, Jean Casarez, how did John Mark Karr become a substitute teacher, of all things?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, we learned about that. He designed a resume that was stellar, that talked about all the experience that he had had at prep schools and private schools around the world. And he took that resume to get jobs as a teacher and as a teaching assistant, and it worked for a long time.
GRACE: Right now we have gotten conflicting reports that John Mark Karr has undergone a sex transformation. He may be simply disguised as a woman in his attempt to get closer to little girls, look-alikes of JonBenet Ramsey.
Out to Dr. Jake Deutsch, doctor of emergency medicine, joining us out of Manhattan tonight.
DR. JAKE DEUTSCH, M.D., DOCTOR OF EMERGENCY MEDICINE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Dr. Deutsch, thank you for being with us. Doctor, Karr has been appearing as a woman. If he has had a sex change, how would he be identified?
DEUTSCH: Well, the obvious factor would be genetic information. So any --
GRACE: You mean DNA?
DEUTSCH: DNA. I mean if there --
GRACE: Doctor. Doctor. I`m a J.D., not an M.D. You`ve got to break it down.
DEUTSCH: Right.
GRACE: OK? So how can we --
DEUTSCH: So --
GRACE: Let`s see that photo again, Rosie. Let Dr. Deutsche see it. Him as a man compared to him as a woman. His name now changed to Alexis Valoran Reich.
Go ahead, Doctor.
DEUTSCH: Well, I think there`s enough similarity there that it looks a little bit like the same person. But what I was speaking to is the information that we can get from our genetics, the DNA that`s found in things like blood, saliva, semen, is absolutely confirmatory because there is information that pinpoints the person to one in a million, even greater chance so that would be how we would definitely make the --
GRACE: OK. Well, I doubt they`re going to get DNA at the battered women`s center in Seattle. But to think that he would go --
DEUTSCH: You`d be surprised.
GRACE: Yes, you`re right.
DEUTSCH: You know, a cup that he drank out of.
GRACE: Yes.
DEUTSCH: Hair from a comb.
GRACE: Toothbrush, hair.
DEUTSCH: Right.
GRACE: But to think that he would go so far as to get a sex change in order to get closer to little girls. What do you have to go through to get a sex change?
DEUTSCH: Yes --
GRACE: How difficult is that?
DEUTSCH: That`s not an easy process.
GRACE: No. It`s not.
DEUTSCH: You know, there`s different stages. And some people just use hormones, some people undergo surgery, some people actually have their genitals reassigned.
GRACE: OK. Could you now please don`t beat around the bush? Please.
DEUTSCH: Right.
GRACE: When you say surgery, you mean --
DEUTSCH: Things like --
GRACE: -- substituting the male genitals for the female genitals.
DEUTSCH: Right.
GRACE: The genital -- they have to be created.
DEUTSCH: Complicated, invasive surgery that is done by very few people. And it goes with a lot of treatment. And you`re talking months of rehabilitation.
GRACE: Hormones. It works.
DEUTSCH: Yes, hormone treatment. So this is not a small step. And if he was seen half a year ago to have completed a full gender reassignment is very unlikely. I think that we`re talking more of a cover-up, things like, you know, makeup and wigs that would be easier --
GRACE: OK.
DEUTSCH: -- to disguise themselves.
GRACE: Hold on. Robin Sax, attorney for John Mark Karr`s alleged stalking victim, a teenage girl, Samantha Spiegel.
Robin, do you believe he`s actually gone through with the sex change or is he just disguising himself as a woman?
ROBIN SAX, ATTORNEY FOR JOHN MARK KARR`S ALLEGED VICTIM, SAMANTHA SPIEGEL: Actually based on the information I`ve gotten, I think that he`s actually disguising himself as a woman. He`s known to have a pronounced Adam`s apple, so someone who`s wearing turtle necks is not someone that you`d be surprised to see.
But you have to remember also during the time of his arrest back in 2006, he was in the middle of the sex change process during that time and may have gotten slowed down due to that arrest.
GRACE: Tell me the nature of his stalking. You claim it`s happening with your teenage victim. Well, what is he doing exactly?
SAX: Well, it begins -- he is a classic groomer. He begins with the relationship. He`s very ingratiating and then he starts sending out extremely violent e-mails if he senses that his follower -- in this case my client -- is not cooperating with him. And she started to balk --
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Is John Mark Karr, Daxis the Conqueror?
SAX: Correct.
GRACE: OK. Doctor -- don`t go anywhere, Robin. Dr. Patricia Saunders, I will come back to you on Daxis the Conqueror. But go ahead, Robin Sax, please.
SAX: No, he uses his personality to gain the trust of a 17-year-old girl, which is when he met Samantha was someone who he could easily attract and get their attention. And then when he wanted to have her start to seek out some of these different immaculates and work as one of his minions, his desire was to create a Charles Manson-ess type cult.
He even wanted -- referred to Samantha as Sadie Sexy just as Charles Manson did to Susan Atkins. That is his goal. He is frightening and he is seeking to get a group of minions around him to help him locate little children, especially ones with small feet.
GRACE: And unfortunately, it would not be the first time that women have helped child molesters and rapists seek out their victims. In fact it happens quite often.
Back to the lines, Danielle in Florida. Hi, Danielle.
DANIELLE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi. Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear.
DANIELLE: First of all, I want to say I`m an absolutely huge fan.
GRACE: Thank you.
DANIELLE: Second of all, regarding this absolutely sick individual.
GRACE: Freak.
DANIELLE: I find it really hard to think that he had a sex change considering he is a potential pedophile, rapist and child abuser. I don`t believe he would cut off his genitals, considering he would probably be looking to use them on these young girls.
And second of all, why is our system not doing more to protect our children from these sex offenders? Why can`t we tattoo their foreheads for crying out loud so people can see them a mile away?
I just don`t understand it. Something has got to be done.
GRACE: Danielle -- Danielle in Florida, I recall sitting out in the hall outside the courtroom when I would be prosecuting child molestation cases, and once I would get through the case and it would be over, I would still feel like we hadn`t really won anything because the next week there would be 50 more of them sitting on my desk. And you do all you can do and it`s just like a tide after a tide after a tide of felony.
Now what was your first question, Danielle?
DANIELLE: Well, my first --
GRACE: Oh, oh, I know. You didn`t think that he would undergo a sex change.
OK, Dr. Saunders, get into his head for a moment. It`s not just about having a sex change. It`s not just about the physical act of molesting the girls.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No, it`s not. It`s about his power, his grandiosity, his dominance of these little girls but I have to agree with Danielle. I don`t think he had a full sex change.
GRACE: To Jerry Speziale, Passaic County sheriff, author of "Without a Badge."
Jerry, thanks for being with us. What exactly is cyberstalking? Break it down for us.
JERRY SPEZIALE, PASSAIC COUNTY SHERIFF, AUTHOR OF "WITHOUT A BADGE: Cyberstalking is when they stalk someone over the Internet. However, it`s no different than stalking someone on the street. It`s actually easier to stalk someone on the Internet because there`s more accessibility. It`s easier to find the victim.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We feel like there are at least two people on the face of this earth that know who did this. And that is the killer and someone that that person may have confided in.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The man who once claimed he killed JonBenet Ramsey.
KARR: I love JonBenet. That`s my little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: John Mark Karr.
KARR: Protecting people who are innocent is important to me.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The man who once falsely admitted to killing beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey --
KARR: Her death was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- is reportedly under investigation for cyberstalking.
KARR: It was so obvious and there was no way I could hide it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It Samantha Spiegel told "Inside Edition" that she first met Karr when she was 9.
KARR: No.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Nineteen-year-old Samantha Spiegel said she first met Karr --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John Mark Karr.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- when she was 9 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mentally unstable.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And he was her substitute teacher at school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Attention seeking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twisted sense of logic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unwell.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They reconnected over video chat and e-mail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn`t want me talking to males of any sort.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: John Mark Karr is back. Although we can`t exactly find him. He`s allegedly disguised as a woman, even changing his name.
What`s the new name, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: The new name is Alexis Valoran Reich. But Nancy --
GRACE: OK. Right there. That`s a study in Freud, the name. Alexis Valoran Reich.
CASAREZ: Yes.
GRACE: OK. Go ahead. What were you going to say?
CASAREZ: Nancy, I saw him in the courtroom. We were eye to eye in the courtroom in Boulder, Colorado when he came in. And you know what you could see an anger --
GRACE: Was he wearing eyeliner? Is that eyeliner?
CASAREZ: That and his eyes were so piercing. They looked through you when they looked at you. He could easily be found. Plus if he uses a computer, technology can find him that way. That`s how they found him in Bangkok, Thailand.
GRACE: Aside from allegedly cyberstalking a now 19 -- now 19 years old girl, a teenage girl, this has been going on for some time, I want to quickly go back to Jerry Speziale, an authority on Internet, e-mail, chat prosecution, author of "Without a Badge."
Very quickly, how do you go about proving cyberstalking? Is it more difficult to prove because the parties may tenuously know each other?
SPEZIALE: No, it`s not more difficult. It`s --
GRACE: OK.
SPEZIALE: It`s actually easier, Nancy, because what happens is there`s a record. There`s a stamp. There`s a time stamp on everything they do. So it`s actually an easier process to go after somebody for cyberstalking.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Margaret in Texas. Hi, Margaret.
MARGARET, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Since John -- since Karr lied about killing JonBenet Ramsey -- he did it, I`m sure, in Thailand in order to get extradited back to the United States, we gave him a free trip all the way back, found out he did not kill JonBenet Ramsey, why can`t we give him another free trip and send him back to Thailand?
GRACE: Oh, Margaret, a girl after my own heart. How I wish he could be just shipped off to another country. Now you`ve made me unleash the lawyers again, Margaret.
David Cooke, Atlanta. Raymond Giudice, Atlanta. Paul Batista, New York.
What about it, Giudice?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I have in my career had banishment and I actually had a client banished to Nigeria but that was 25 years ago. Without some -- there`s no way to just throw them out of the country. And Bangkok would stop him at their borders and ship him back.
GRACE: What can -- OK, Batista, weigh in.
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "DEATH`S WITNESS": Why can`t -- let`s remember, Nancy --
GRACE: In a nutshell.
BATISTA: Excuse me. He did not kill JonBenet Ramsey. He has never been convicted of a crime. And there is no arrest warrant out for this man at this moment.
GRACE: What`s your point?
BATISTA: My point is that so far we`re dealing with someone here who has perhaps eluded justice but certainly should not be sent to another country. He hasn`t been arrested.
GRACE: OK, thank you for the sermon. I appreciate it. To avoid repetition, I know you`d like to preach on.
David Cooke, what can we do with him in, a nutshell?
DAVID COOKE, CHIEF, SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT, HOUSTON COUNTY DA`S OFFICE: What we can do is take warrants for terroristic threats and stalking. If he violates the order after the judge has given the retraining order, you can get him for aggravating -- aggravated stalking.
GRACE: And you keep saying, Batista, there`s no warrant, there`s no warrant. The reality is they filed police reports. Now police have to find him.
Very quickly shifting gears, I want to tell you about a missing Girl Scout. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: More details emerge in the case of a missing Texas Girl Scout last seen getting off the school bus just blocks from her own home.
JOHN LOWITZER, FATHER OF MISSING TEEN GIRL SCOUT, ALI LOWITZER: We think that there`s foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: However, Ali`s family is sure that she was kidnapped or is being held against her will.
LOWITZER: The unfortunate thing is we don`t have any proof that there`s foul play and we don`t have any proof that there`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mere fact that she has had no communication with anybody that we know of makes it look like there`s a possibility of something having happened.
GRACE: No activity on her cell phone, no text messages at all, no use of a credit card or an ATM.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Video reportedly shows her leaving the bus just 30 feet from her own home. That`s the last time anyone saw Ali. Ali`s parents say they`ve had no contact with her since she was last seen and there`s been no activity on her cell phone.
JOANN LOWITZER, MOTHER OF MISSING TEEN GIRL SCOUT, ALI LOWITZER: She was going to walk to work and pick up her paycheck. And that was the last that I talked to her.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live very quickly. Out to John Lowitzer and Joann Lowitzer, parents of the missing teen, Ali.
John and Joann, thank you for being with us. I want to get Ali`s picture back out there tonight.
Everyone, the tip line 713-967-5810. Take a look at this little girl. Great grades, beautiful, Girl Scout, planning an "Alice in Wonderland" birthday party she never attended.
To John and Joann -- first to you, John, is it true that this is a girl who would text like 3,000 times a month? That`s not unusual for teenagers now. Since she went missing, not one text has appeared on her phone?
JOHN LOWITZER: Not one text, not one phone call, no activity whatsoever. She`s even got a GPS on there and there`s been no activity. We can`t even ping her phone.
GRACE: Now that`s extremely odd. Does the phone have to be on for it to be pinged?
JOHN LOWITZER: It does. It has to be on.
GRACE: So she doesn`t even have it on. Tell me, John, about the last time you heard from her, you or your wife.
JOHN LOWITZER: Well, the last time I had heard from her was the Saturday before she went missing. Joann had had a conversation with her that day at approximately 2:30, I believe. So it was shortly before she went missing when Joann talked to her.
GRACE: And it`s my understanding she was headed back to the hamburger shack where she worked in addition to going to school to pick up her paycheck. Did she make it there? Did she get her check, John?
JOHN LOWITZER: No, she did not. She got off the bus. She started to walk to where her work is to the Burger Barn and it`s less than a quarter mile away. And she never made it. We checked with her boss and we checked with the employees there. And they said they never saw her. She never arrived.
GRACE: Can you confirm that she was on the bus, John?
JOHN LOWITZER: Absolutely. I saw the footage myself. I had to go to the Transportation Department and actually view the footage to confirm that she was.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOANN LOWITZER: According to the phone records she would text about 4,000 a month.
JOHN LOWITZER: For that to just stop is baffling.
JOANN LOWITZER: I would send her a text every night before I go to bed, just hoping that sometime I`ll get a reply.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are talking about a little Girl Scout now missing for many, many days. Can you help us find Ali?
To Clark Goldband -- Rosie, can you put up the map for me? Explain to me, where was the bus? We know she was on the bus because the dad says he can identify her on surveillance video. Where is the bus stop? Where is the Burger Shack where she worked? And where is home?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: And Nancy, that`s where things go very, very murky. As you can see, the bus stop on that map there just 30 feet from the home, just a few steps.
And Nancy, her place of employment, that shack where they serve hamburgers, just a half mile away. So very close distance, but no one knows what happened to Ali after she got off the bus in that last fateful surveillance image.
GRACE: Was that, John -- this is Ali`s mother and father, and Joann Lowitzer. Would that be the correct bus stop for her to get off to get to the Burger Shack where she worked?
JOHN LOWITZER: That`s the same bus stop she always gets of at.
GRACE: OK. So there is no doubt in my mind -- she hasn`t run away or she wouldn`t have called and say, hey, I`m going to pick up my check, get on the bus, go -- get off by the Burger Shack and start working to the Burger Shack. She never made it. Somewhere between that bus stop and the Burger Shack, something went wrong.
JOHN LOWITZER: Something went very wrong.
JOANN LOWITZER: And she doesn`t normally walk to work every day. That was probably the first time that she had walked.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Randi in Utah, hi, Randy.
RANDY, CALLER FROM UTAH: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
RANDY: Could there have been somebody like an older gentleman -- you know, older age wise -- that she started hanging around with? That maybe - -
GRACE: Excellent question. To John and Joann Lowitzer, have police looked at her laptop and have they pulled up all of her text messages? Certainly there is something there that they could go on.
JOANN LOWITZER: We didn`t have a home computer. So the only Internet access she would have had was at a friend`s house or from school.
GRACE: What about her text messages?
JOHN LOWITZER: Unfortunately for the text messages, all we can figure out is the data -- what we don`t have is the data. What we do have is the phone numbers and that times that she texted or called somebody. And our private investigator Max Hanford has been very diligent in figuring out exactly all -- who all those people are and getting in contact with them.
The question about the computer, like Joanne said, there hasn`t been a computer in the house in about a year. So, you know, she`s had no online activity from the house.
GRACE: Everyone, you are seeing video and shots of teenaged girl Ali. Alexandria Lowitzer, 5`2", 145 pounds, hazel eyes, auburn hair. Tip line 713-967-5810.
Let`s stop to remember Marine Gunnery Sergeant Robert Gilbert II, 28, Richfield, Ohio. On a fifth tour served Afghanistan, lost his life on his birthday. His father at his bedside, Maryland Naval Hospital.
Promoted six times in nine years. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart. A life member of the NRA. Loved fast cars, motorcycles with his dad, leaves behind father Robert Senior, a cop, sister Ruthanne, niece Arella (ph).
Robert Gilbert II, American--.
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