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Joy Behar Page

Mosque Near Ground Zero; Jesse James Speaks; Interview With Liza Minnelli

Aired May 26, 2010 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Jesse James says he had a rotten childhood and that explains why he cheats. I can really understand that because when I was in my 30s, I got a really bad haircut, and then I got divorced.

Then Sarah Ferguson says she wants to appear on "Dancing with the Stars". Another reality show? Isn`t she still recovering from her unscheduled appearance on bribe-zilla?

And Liza Minnelli will be here; and if you say Liza who, you have to return your gate card by midnight tonight.

That and more right now.

Plans to build a Muslim center near Ground Zero are becoming a huge cause celebre here in New York City. Protesters say it`s offensive. Supporters say it would be a beacon of tolerance.

With me now to discuss this are Daisy Khan, spokeswoman for the center and executive director of American Society for Muslim Advancement; Roy Sekoff, founding editor of HuffingtonPost.com and Pam Geller, author of "The Post American Presidency: The Obama administration`s war on America" and staunch opponent of the Muslim center.

Let me start with you Pam. Why are you so against the center?

PAMELA GELLER, AGAINST MUSLIM CENTER NEAR GROUND ZERO: I`m against the mosque at Ground Zero. We feel it is intolerant. It is insensitive to the families and to America that was attacked on 9/11. We feel it would be more appropriate maybe to build a center dedicated to expunging the Koranic texts of the violent ideology that inspired jihad, or perhaps a center to the victims of hundreds of millions of years of Jihadi wars, land enslavements, cultural annihilations and mass slaughter.

BEHAR: I understand that it`s not exactly a mosque. It`s a community center, right, Daisy?

DAISY KHAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR MUSLIM ADVANCEMENT: Yes, it`s a community center with a prayer space inside.

BEHAR: With a prayer space.

GELLER: A prayer space is a mosque. It`s a mosque.

BEHAR: A mini-mosque.

KHAN: Yes, a mini-mosque.

ROY SEKOFF, FOUNDING EDITOR, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: But when you hear like 13-story mosque, there is a lot of praying going on there. But then when you find out there`s a swimming pool, a basketball court, you know, a lot is in the presentation.

BEHAR: Yes, it`s a little like the JCC on the upper west side that has a lot of things going on.

GELLER: On their side it was a mosque until people started to take issue with it. So I think the deception, the fact that there is a deception, it is a mosque, it`s not a mosque, it`s a mosque.

BEHAR: Do you have an answer to that?

KHAN: Well, it`s a prayer space. Whether you want to call it a mosque or you want to call it a prayer space, what we have to do is we have accommodate the needs of the growing Muslim community in lower Manhattan.

We`re already in the neighborhood. We`re not new to the neighborhood. The imam has been the imam of the mosque ten blocks from Ground Zero in Tribeca. So this is the American Muslim communities, those who live in New York. It`s their opportunity to give back to the community.

And we want to revitalize. We want to be at the front end of revitalizing lower Manhattan. And this is our way of doing that, giving back to the community.

BEHAR: I don`t get your objection to it because it`s not on the site exactly. It`s off the site.

GELLER: It`s right there, it`s 600 feet. It`s 600 feet from the hallowed ground of 9/11, of Ground Zero.

BEHAR: Yes.

GELLER: I don`t think the government should stop it. I don`t think landmarks should stop it. I really believe they should be sensitive.

We need to be sensitive to the Muslim world. We can`t say Mohammed on Comedy Central. We can`t run Mohammed in a little huggie-bear costume.

BEHAR: Well, that`s -- you`re talking about extremists now. I think you have to differentiate between Muslims and extremists. You`re conflating them, and that might be a mistake.

SEKOFF: My question would be, you know, when it comes to pushing hot buttons -- they say the three most important things, location, location, location. So at what point? You say it`s 600 feet, would 800 feet be ok? Would two blocks around the side? When does it become ok? Three blocks? Three and a half?

GELLER: What I`m saying is I think that people -- I think they should be sensitive to the families, the 9/11 families. We are always being asked to be sensitive to the Muslim world.

BEHAR: Yes. I got that.

GELLER: Why didn`t we run the Danish cartoons? Why did no media run --

BEHAR: Because Islamic fundamentalists and jihadists are objecting to that, not Muslims. Am I right?

GELLER: Did Patrick Henry say give me liberty or give me death unless you insult somebody?

BEHAR: But also Pam, didn`t a lot of Muslims die in 9/11 too?

GELLER: I don`t know. I think it was roughly around 20. I believe that Muslims have --

BEHAR: Where did you get that number?

GELLER: Where did you get your number?

BEHAR: I`m asking the question. Did you hear a number come out of my mouth?

GELLER: No, but I`m saying -- no, a lot did not die. But I don`t think that the number -- if one died it`s wrong, one or 20 or 50 or 100.

BEHAR: Ok.

GELLER: What I`m saying is the ideology that inspired jihad, jihad is part of Koranic texts and (INAUDIBLE) and Sura. Why can`t we work towards expunging the Islam of these violent texts? Wouldn`t that be a period of enlightenment much like --

BEHAR: Expunging from the Koran?

GELLER: Violent texts.

BEHAR: There is violent text in the bible.

GELLER: Nobody is blowing themselves up around the world.

BEHAR: Not right now, but they have.

GELLER: No, nobody is. Why are we rewriting reality? Why don`t we deal with reality as it happens?

BEHAR: Ok. The Tea Party leader says it`s a monument to terrorists. What is your answer to these people?

KHAN: Well, first of all, they`re completely ignorant of who Muslims are. There is 1.5 billion Muslims in the world.

BEHAR: 1.5 billion.

KHAN: Billion.

BEHAR: In the United States?

SEKOFF: That`s probably the more important number.

KHAN: No, in the world.

BEHAR: In the world.

KHAN: Not the United States.

BEHAR: What am I saying? We have 300 million people here. Right.

KHAN: And there is estimated to be 6 to 8 million and growing in the United States. And all of us are law abiding citizens. Majority of us; there might be a fraction like we saw the other day. But what is really important is that there is a lot of ignorance about who Muslims are.

BEHAR: Right.

KHAN: And this, a center like this would be dedicating to removing that ignorance. And it will also counter the extremists.

BEHAR: Right.

KHAN: Because the moderate Muslims need a voice. Their voices need to be amplified.

BEHAR: Isn`t it better to put there it so that the moderate Muslims could have a say in all the arguments?

GELLER: At the last Friday sermon of Imam Raoul (ph), he said the opposition was hostile. Why were they so hostile? Their grandchildren were going to be Muslim anyway. What I`m saying you is that at some point --

BEHAR: I don`t understand.

GELLER: That our grandchildren were going to be Muslim anyway. So we ought to get --

BEHAR: Whose grandchildren?

SEKOFF: All of ours. That by the time that the next generation comes --

BEHAR: I will have one soon.

SEKOFF: Get on the phone. Honey, I don`t care, whatever.

GELLER: I mean we can`t dispute the fact that there is jihad commanded in the Koran. That there is tekiah (ph) which is deception and lies to advance Islam in non-Muslim societies. And I think we should be working in the spirit of humanity and brotherhood and love that we should be working towards expunging the very ideology that inspires jihad, the Times Square bomber, the Christmas balls bomber.

BEHAR: But you know what, Pam, that center is going to have a public memorial to 9/11.

KHAN: Yes.

BEHAR: Which doesn`t interfere with this whole idea at all.

GELLER: I understand the thing keeps morphing. Everything keeps morphing. It was a 13-story mosque. And it`s a mosque on the sacred ground of 9/11. We think that in the spirit of tolerance and mutual understanding and mutual --

BEHAR: In the spirit of tolerance, you would allow it.

GELLER: No, no -- I`m not -- who am I, God? I`m not disallowing it. I`m saying --

BEHAR: You`re protesting it.

GELLER: I`m protesting it because I feel that it`s very insensitive. It hurts the 9/11 families. All the families that were there last night, I think that it is incredibly insensitive to our feelings that it is humiliating and demeaning.

BEHAR: Just jump in. Just jump in.

KHAN: I want to jump in because we have received the support of the elected officials.

BEHAR: I know. They voted to put it up.

KHAN: The squadron, Stringer, Chin, they all came in support because they really want to see the Muslim community leading the effort to rebuild lower Manhattan.

BEHAR: Right.

KHAN: And we have Jewish leaders who came out in support of our initiative. We had Christian leaders that came out in support of our initiative. We had 9/11 families, 250 families. The peaceful families, they really want a center like this. They want us to take the time --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Can I ask you a question?

KHAN: And turn it to something positive.

BEHAR: Can I ask a legit question? Where is the money for this? It`s going to cost $100 million. Where is the money coming from?

KHAN: That`s a very good question. Actually we went to the community board so we could excite them and find out what their needs were because it`s really for the community. We have not determined the full scope of this project.

When our detractor says that we are shifting and changing, of course we are. The whole scope of the project has not been defined. You know, we heard from people so we decided we should have a memorial out of sensitivity to everyone.

BEHAR: Right.

KHAN: We heard from the community and we`ve decided that there is going to be a senior citizens space because that is what is needed. We heard from the community. We are creating a 500-seat performing arts theater. So the money is not -- we have not even started the fundraising campaign.

BEHAR: Are you afraid that there is going to be some kind of jihad thing going on there?

GELLER: I dislike the deception, the fact that the imam said that the Christians of the west were responsible for 9/11. The imam`s father was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

KHAN: That is not true. That`s false. That`s absolutely false.

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: But there is evidence of it. And we could certainly spend time. We ought to present the evidence.

KHAN: This is a false statement.

GELLER: And the 49 Muslim nations that contributed to the 96 street Islamic Street Center, is that false too?

KHAN: I have absolutely no idea where you`re getting your information from because it`s false. You are actually making false statements. And my father-in-law has been dead for almost, you know, seven, eight years.

And I think it`s very painful, a man who dedicated his life to interfaith dialogue who actually began interfaith dialogue in this country. He was a great luminary who shaped Islam in this country as a way of reaching out to interfaith communities. It`s wrong. It`s wrong to say something about somebody --

BEHAR: We have to let the man speak. Let the guy speak for a second.

GELLER: I would be happy to post the evidence of the Muslim Brotherhood. And I do feel your pain. And we`re asking that you feel our pain.

SEKOFF: Well, that is actually the point of this whole discussion, Joy is that this is a discussion where I can actually see both sides. I really can.

But symbolism cuts two ways. I mean I can understand here one man`s symbolism -- a slap in the face is a gesture of brotherhood. The question though is at the end of the day if it`s going to go either way, where does America come down?

The genius of America, the beauty of America is that we err on the side of tolerance, we err on the side of openness, we err on the side of, you know, letting inclusion in.

And for me the number is not how many people died, but the fact that you say 1.5 billion Muslims. Are we going to say to them you`re not welcome here? You`re viewed as the enemy here. I think that`s a dangerous message.

BEHAR: It kind of contributes to more hatred of America.

GELLER: Oh, I don`t think so.

BEHAR: Yes.

GELLER: I think it would be lovely if we said we understand the feelings of the victims of 9/11. We won`t -- we won`t put a giant mosque here. I disagree. I think that that would be an extraordinary gesture of goodness, mutual respect and mutual understanding. No one is telling them they can`t. We`re asking them not to.

BEHAR: Well then, they are going to. They already voted to do it.

GELLER: Well the vote has no power.

BEHAR: Ok.

GELLER: The vote has no power. There`s no power in the vote.

KHAN: The important thing is -- the important thing is what the community said yesterday.

BEHAR: Yes.

KHAN: Twenty-nine people voted in favor of this because we are bringing much needed amenities.

GELLER: But the crowd was very much against it.

BEHAR: All right.

GELLER: And the elected officials, the politicians do not reflect the people`s sentiments at all. I was there.

BEHAR: Ok, thank you very much, everybody.

Up next, Jesse James and other dish. Back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, living legend Liza Minnelli drops by to talk about her upcoming tour, her new jewelry and clothing line, and her latest film, "Sex & the City 2".

Now back to Joy.

BEHAR: Jesse James appeared on "Nightline" and said he still loves Sandra Bullock. I say slipping the (INAUDIBLE) to five other freuleins is a funny way to show it.

Here now to discuss this and much are professional volleyball player, the beautiful and lovely Gabrielle Reece; actor, Willie Garson who appears in "Sex & The City 2"; and my favorite psychotherapist this week and contributor to -- what is it -- Care.com, Robi Ludwig.

Ok, guys. Welcome to the show.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: That`s a very good intro -- we were talking about --

WILLIE GARSON, ACTOR: Well, yes.

BEHAR: Ok, let`s start with the infidelity. He was asked about the five alleged mistresses. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICKI MABREY, ABC NEWS "NIGHTLINE": We`ve had five women come forward now. Did you have affairs with all of them?

JESSE JAMES, SANDRA BULLOCK EX-HUSBAND: I wouldn`t believe everything you read in tabloids, you know. I was unfaithful to my wife and I`m not going to put any kind of count to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GARSON: Yes, exactly.

GABRIELLE REECE, PROFESSIONAL VOLLEYBALL PLAYER: Jesse is, I know he is a bad boy, but it is, it`s the voice, it does surprise me when he does kind of --

BEHAR: Isn`t it amazing that she is attracted to him, Sandra?

GARSON: Well, that`s the thing. We were talking before. I`ve known her for years, and I just couldn`t, I just can`t -- I can`t handle this. It drives me crazy. It`s --

BEHAR: Why? What can`t you handle?

GARSON: Well, he -- she deserves so much better of a guy than this.

BEHAR: Yes, well, duh.

GARSON: Well I mean, not just that. I mean, there is like no there, there. I mean, there`s no substance.

BEHAR: Yes.

GARSON: I mean, I understand he knows how to fix a toaster. But it`s just wonderful -- apparently he can build a toaster.

REECE: You know that has value, I just want to say.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: -- he doesn`t admit it. He doesn`t say it`s five. He just goes well, yes.

REECE: I don`t even know why he keeps going on in these interviews anyway. I think he should just say sorry and then play it out in private. I don`t think this helps him going on here.

LUDWIG: Well, I`m sure he is humiliated too. I mean, he doesn`t want to say, you know, it wasn`t five, it was six. I mean, it sounds like he`s still trying to win back Sandra. So he doesn`t want to add insult to injury --

BEHAR: Yes.

LUDWIG: -- you know. And what does it matter after a few anyway?

BEHAR: Right.

LUDWIG: Does it matter the number?

REECE: No.

GARSON: But there doesn`t seem to be any passion in his -- in his --

BEHAR: No. It`s flat line.

LUDWIG: Yes.

GARSON: It`s like he can be talking about you know and then I went and got a hot dog. It`s like nothing is anything. I hate that.

LUDWIG: Well, we don`t know if he is on medication too. That is blunting his action. I`m just saying. We don`t know.

BEHAR: That`s what you`re saying maybe he is on some meds.

LUDWIG: Yes.

BEHAR: All right, well let`s move on to the next part of it. He says -- he said he went to rehab, not just for sex addiction, but anger management and childhood abuse issues.

Listen to him talking about being abused by his father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES: He beat my ass pretty good a bunch of times. Football star, bike builder, "Monster Garage" TV star; all that stuff is a huge smoke screen so people won`t see that I`m a scared abused kid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: You know, his father -- just FYI, the father denies all of this. But that`s typical. They always deny that there is any abuse --

LUDWIG: Right.

BEHAR: -- the older people it seems to me.

LUDWIG: Right.

BEHAR: And the kid has to be out there on their own. It`s very sad. This is kind of the sad part of it. What do you think about that? Do you feel better about him now?

GARSON: No I don`t -- look, I`m a big -- I`m a big get -- get help and move on kind of person. And you know, so if this is something that he obviously knew about himself and that he has obviously prone to every sort of addiction, apparently, then he should have gotten help and not taken it out on his family.

BEHAR: He said his father broke his arm when he was seven years old. What does that have to do with sex, though?

GARSON: Right.

REECE: I think it`s separate.

BEHAR: Yes.

LUDWIG: Well if he --

GARSON: Well, it`s very sexual -- no.

LUDWIG: No, but if he bought into the fact that he is bad. So if somehow having an abusive father makes you feel like a bad kid, a bad child, then you are going to be very self-destructive and punish yourself.

So now he really has the whole world punishing him, looking at him with a different set of eyes.

BEHAR: Yes.

LUDWIG: And so that`s where the link is.

BEHAR: And you know could that be his attraction to Nazis also? Which is they`re bad. They`re as bad as you`re going to get, right?

LUDWIG: Or -- or if you are attracted to the aggressor, then you are not a victim.

BEHAR: But why he didn`t he go to therapy? Why did he go into rehab?

LUDWIG: Well, we don`t know that he didn`t go into therapy, and maybe he found other ways to deal with it. He was a macho guy. He found success. And so he didn`t have a need to go into therapy until he hit rock bottom.

BEHAR: He said that you know -- did you ever see the Nazi photo he took?

GARSON: Yes, yes.

REECE: No.

BEHAR: He says it was a joke.

GARSON: It was a joke. That he was kidding.

BEHAR: Now, don`t you think only Mel Brooks is allowed to make a joke like that? He is not Jewish, this guy. Where does he come off making a joke like that?

GARSON: Right and he is such a gifted comedian.

REECE: Yes he`s hilarious.

(CROSSTALK)

LUDWIG: But it`s not funny. But it`s poor judgment, it`s not funny, it`s not funny.

GARSON: Yes, right.

LUDWIG: And it`s getting people to not like him and punish him.

REECE: Well, when it first happened, it felt like he just did everything he could because maybe he felt like maybe he didn`t deserve her and the whole life that was going on.

BEHAR: Right.

REECE: They just look like the perfect -- obviously this guy is just trying to blow the whole thing up.

BEHAR: And he said he wanted to get caught.

GARSON: Right and he kept saying I was doing this knowing that I was going to get caught and thank God it finally happened.

REECE: Right.

GARSON: And you know it`s exactly what you`re seeing. You`re very smart.

LUDWIG: Sometimes when life is too good, it can feel uncomfortable because it`s not familiar.

REECE: Right.

LUDWIG: So people find ways to get caught, get punished so that they feel I`m bad and I really deserve this anyway.

BEHAR: He also said oh, can we just show -- show the sound about him and Sandra? Where he talks about Sandra?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES: I still have hopes of saving, you know, some sort of relationship with Sandy.

MABREY: Do you think you can change her mind?

JAMES: About divorcing me? No. We`re getting divorced. 100 percent sure of that.

MABREY: Is that what you want?

JAMES: Absolutely not. I didn`t want any of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: I have hopes of having a body like Pamela Sue Anderson.

GARSON: Yes.

BEHAR: But that`s not going to happen either.

REECE: Have you guys ever seen "Wayne`s World"? Doesn`t he sound like the character, the sidekick character to Mike Myers? Doesn`t he a little bit? Sorry.

LUDWIG: I think this is the sad part here. I really believe that he does love her, and that he would like her back. And maybe he will dry for that.

GARSON: On his level. On his level.

BEHAR: We`re going to take a break, and we`ll be back with some more pop culture dish things, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with my panel.

Scandal-ridden Sarah Ferguson was in New York today promoting her series of children`s books. You know, I hear that for 50 bucks she`ll introduce you to the cat in the hat.

Ok, guys. Now I give her credit for showing up at this book signing because she could have stayed in the closet with this.

GARSON: Ok. Hold on. Can you imagine the lawsuit?

(CROSSTALK)

REECE: -- and a charity event before that.

BEHAR: What?

REECE: She was in L.A. last night doing a charity event. And I know before you guys shred her that I want to say I met her many years ago and this show`s about her. She is right there. She is taking it. She screwed up and now she is taking it. She is a very genuine person. She maybe made some bad choices, but you know -- or good choices, I don`t know.

LUDWIG: I agree with you though. I met her and she is warm and she`s lovely and she`s very real.

BEHAR: Yes, she is. That doesn`t stop me from making jokes about her.

LUDWIG: No and that`s your job.

REECE: That`s your job. That`s your job.

BEHAR: Don`t tell me I have to stop that, because I won`t be able to do that.

LUDWIG: Don`t you think that people feel badly for her? I mean I feel badly for her.

GARSON: A little bit. A little bit. I feel badly --

REECE: Wait. Don`t you think the prince knew about it?

LUDWIG: I have no idea.

REECE: Come on, don`t you think it was like -- it`s like a transaction.

BEHAR: The prince knows something.

GARSON: Here is the thing. All she is setting up is a meeting. And it`s not like -- and I promise you you`ll get this massive contract.

LUDWIG: And it wasn`t illegal, right?

GARSON: It`s not technically illegal. She has a big lifestyle and she is not pulling in the money.

BEHAR: That`s why I don`t feel sorry for her. I`ll be very frank. I like her as a person. She is very nice. But she spends too much money. She has no business spending all that money.

GARSON: Absolutely.

BEHAR: That`s what`s I`ve been --

LUDWIG: She has a problem with debting. She has always had a problem with debting.

GARSON: She has shopping issues as well.

LUDWIG: But don`t you think being in that kind of environment could trigger a debting problem? You`re amongst the wealthiest of the wealthy.

BEHAR: Right.

LUDWIG: And who knows how she is making her money or even how much money she has.

BEHAR: They won`t give her any money. The royal family -- rent out a couple of castles. Get some money and give it to her.

GARSON: She has child support, right?

REECE: Barely anymore. Those girls are big now.

GARSON: Yes. They`re 40. But you forget they used to call her the Duchess of Pork when she was working for Weight Watchers.

BEHAR: She said that herself. She made a joke about it. And pork is an inexpensive cut of meat. She doesn`t really need it.

BEHAR: Oh, that`s funny. Wait a minute.

Journalist Joe McGuinness who is penning an unauthorized Palin biography has moved in next door to Sarah, and she is not too happy about it. Not only is he snooping, he is blocking her view of the Kremlin and she is not happy.

So let`s talk about her. She went on Facebook to complain about her new neighbor. This guy is going to be next door to her.

GARSON: Right.

BEHAR: Snooping on her.

REECE: It`s creepy because of the kids. But it`s kind of a beautiful justice all at the same time.

BEHAR: Why do you say that?

REECE: Well, I just feel like Sarah Palin, you know, she kind of has -- she`s on all of us. So it`s interesting that he is now on all of her a little bit.

GARSON: I feel like she has moved in next door to us, to our whole lives.

BEHAR: Right. I will never forgive John McCain for that.

LUDWIG: She has intruded on the American public, though. All is fair in love and war.

BEHAR: I know.

LUDWIG: It is a little bit stalkerish, isn`t it? That`s the downside of fame. Right?

GARSON: And he`s got to be very careful. I mean --

REECE: She has those guns too. She`ll be all right. She has a cabinet full of shotguns.

BEHAR: He better be careful. She is armed and dangerous.

GARSON: But he does have to be careful in that there is a lot of legal issues that could come up if he is digging through her trash.

BEHAR: She has money now. Why doesn`t she -- just buy it and make it a closet. Thanks.

GARSON: Exactly.

Catch Willie Garson in "Sex and the City 2" in theaters tomorrow. And Gabrielle Reece is working with Vaseline, Aloe Fresh and Lighten Up Your Summer campaign. Log on to globe.com/vaseline for more information. I love Vaseline.

Up next --

REECE: Who doesn`t?

BEHAR: The legendary Liza Minnelli. Am I drinking or something tonight?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Liza Minnelli has an Oscar, an Emmy, a Grammy, and four Tonys. Not only that, she has entertained more gay men than Larry Craig in an airport men`s room.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: That song we just heard was Liza performing Beyonce`s "Single Ladies" from "Sex & The City 2" which opens Thursday. The legendary Liza Minnelli joins me now.

LIZA MINNELLI, SINGER/ACTRESS: Thank you, honey.

BEHAR: Welcome to my show, Liza. I`m so thrilled to have you here. And I have to tell you, you stole that movie with that number.

MINNELLI: Oh, well it wasn`t me. It was a wonderful man called Ron Lewis.

BEHAR: That wasn`t you dancing?

MINNELLI: Well, no. It was because of him. I mean he had the girls looking exactly like me. He tipped his hat to my friend Beyonce, but that number was original. I mean all the things that he did in it that were so hot and sexy.

BEHAR: Yes.

MINNELLI: That`s Ron Lewis.

BEHAR: But you were at the top of your game. I mean you were terrific in that scene.

MINNELLI: Thank you.

BEHAR: Everybody is saying that.

MINNELLI: Thank you.

BEHAR: About how great it is, you know. So was it fun doing this movie?

MINNELLI: Yes!

BEHAR: It was fun?

MINNELLI: It`s great fun. Because, you know, you`re part of something that everybody really likes.

BEHAR: Right.

MINNELLI: You know and that we all watched, whether we admitted it or not.

BEHAR: The movie?

MINNELLI: Yes, we all -- we watched it.

BEHAR: It`s a pleasure, a guilty pleasure.

MINNELLI: Oh, I stayed for the whole movie. I stayed.

BEHAR: I stayed also. I did. I did. Kim Catrell is very funny in the film.

MINNELLI: She is wonderful.

BEHAR: Yes but was it fun to be in front of the camera? Because you haven`t really made movies lately? Is it fun to do a movie again? Because I know you did a lot of live performance.

MINNELLI: Sure. But I always think like I`m in front of a camera. You know, I think in angles and I think in shots. I guess because of I`m my father`s daughter too.

BEHAR: That`s right. The famous and legendary film director Vincent Minnelli. Vincent Minnelli.

MINNELLI: Vincente Minnelli.

BEHAR: Well he an e at the end of his t.

MINNELLI: I know. Whatever.

BEHAR: Yes whatever. But he was a great movie director of musical comedies.

MINNELLI: He was the only director at MGM that did everything. He did musicals. He did comedies, the long, long trailer. He did, you know, Madam Beauvary.

BEHAR: With Jennifer Jones.

MINNELLI: Yes. He did everything.

BEHAR: You come from an incredible family.

MINNELLI: I do.

BEHAR: I mean between your father and your mother, Jimmy Garland --

MINNELLI: And my grandparents, as far back as I could trace were all in show business.

BEHAR: Really so that`s the whole thing. Knits the genes at this point, isn`t it?

MINNELLI: I guess we`re bred into it, you know. We`re vaudevillians and circus people.

BEHAR: What was the greatest thing about being in that family, do you think?

MINNELLI: The watching.

BEHAR: Watching them perform?

MINNELLI: Yes -- no. Watching how it all worked. Watching like I`m looking now at this set. And I was watching the lighting and this that and the other. And you`re wonderful -- how you`re in control of everything. I just love seeing how things -- how things happen. You know And it keeps everything very in the moment for me.

BEHAR: Have you ever wanted to be a director?

MINNELLI: Well, I kind of worked with Ron Lewis on my own shows.

BEHAR: You do? The live show?

MINNELLI: Oh yes, yes.

BEHAR: But they`re televised like "LIZA WITH A Z." Did you work on that with him as a director too?

MINNELLI: Oh, no, that was Fosse.

BEHAR: Oh, only the best for you.

MINNELLI: No, I think like a camera. I do. I think in close-up and medium shot, at this angle, at that angle. I don`t know. I was bred to I guess, really.

BEHAR: That`s what you were exposed to. I mean that`s a wonderful thing, to be expose to that type of stuff. But in addition to that, you were exposed to your mother -

MINNELLI: Oh yes.

BEHAR: Who was one of the great performers of the 20th century.

MINNELLI: And one of the funniest people I met in my life.

BEHAR: Hilarious, she was very funny when she would be on Johnny Carson or Merv Griffin.

MINNELLI: Oh, please, oh please.

BEHAR: She was really a riot.

MINNELLI: Yes, she was really funny.

BEHAR: Was she the kind of person who was blue? Like her stuff was, you know, like she would do a dirty joke and have everyone cracking?

MINNELLI: Oh she was clever with dirty words, it was witty.

BEHAR: Witty words.

MINNELLI: Yes. It was real wit, which has kind of disappeared now.

BEHAR: Yes.

MINNELLI: And I can`t think of an example. I`ll think of one and tell you later.

BEHAR: OK. Now the other thing about you and your mother is that you`re both gay icons. I mentioned it in my introduction. What do you think that is about? There are very few people in your category, really in the gay community. I can think of Judy Garland, Liza Minnelli, maybe Bette Midler.

MINNELLI: Sure.

BEHAR: I think she is another one.

MINNELLI: Sure.

BEHAR: You know you have Kathy Griffin coming up and Joan Rivers is a gay icon.

MINNELLI: Sure, yes, yes.

BEHAR: But what do you think that is about with you and Judy?

MINNELLI: I think it`s simple. They have good taste.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Well, I agree with that.

MINNELLI: That`s my answer.

BEHAR: I agree with that. It`s not really -- it`s not bragging, it`s just the truth.

MINNELLI: No. They have good taste.

BEHAR: They do have good taste. They know talent and they appreciate talent in the gay community. I noticed that.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: But there must be some other thing because there are many people who have talent.

MINNELLI: You know something? I don`t know, Joy. I honestly don`t know. But I`m grateful.

BEHAR: It is that they identify -- let`s take your mother. Your mother had her ups and downs. She had many difficult years.

MINNELLI: I guess so. I guess you`re right. I think maybe you`re right.

BEHAR: You know something to do with that.

MINNELLI: I honestly -- I honestly don`t know. You would have to ask somebody who is gay. I don`t know.

BEHAR: I have 20 gay guys here. Maybe I should turn around and ask them. Hey Henry! But I think that that`s it. Even for you, you`ve had difficult times in your life, you know. And I think that the gay community identifies with difficult times because they have difficult times.

MINNELLI: Well, you can tell by the press today.

BEHAR: Yes.

MINNELLI: I mean we`ve all been through everything, you know. And people like it when they read about people`s trials and tribulations.

BEHAR: Why do they like it? Is it sadistic or do they identify?

MINNELLI: I think it makes them feel better what they are going through themselves.

BEHAR: That would explain a lot of reality shows.

MINNELLI: I guess so. You know, that`s the way it is. You have to look at what is. And kind of figure out why it is, and then just watch it.

BEHAR: Yes, yes.

MINNELLI: You know.

BEHAR: Right. Now you`re going on tour, I understand, starting June 5th. You`re starting in St. Louis, Missouri.

MINNELLI: Oh yes, yes.

BEHAR: Which is a great town. I`ve been there many times.

MINNELLI: Oh, yes.

BEHAR: It`s a lot of work for you.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: It`s a lot for me. I go on the roads sometimes. It`s exhausting. Why are you doing it?

MINNELLI: I like it!

BEHAR: You like it?

MINNELLI: I like it.

BEHAR: You do.

MINNELLI: Yes, I enjoy it. It`s in my soul.

BEHAR: It`s in your soul, yes. To just get out there and wow them.

MINNELLI: No, it`s a sharing experience. It sounds corny. I don`t know. It`s what I do.

BEHAR: It`s what I do. Right.

MINNELLI: I go out and I learn from Charles Aznavour. There are songs about every experience. You know, I sing a song about a deaf girl who falls in love with a man and she doesn`t know how to talk to him. Things like that. I find -- I find songs about people that don`t have songs written about them.

BEHAR: Well deaf people usually don`t. You`re right.

MINNELLI: No. I have a song about a gay guy.

BEHAR: What`s it called?

MINNELLI: It`s called "What Makes A Man A Man."

BEHAR: That`s nice.

MINNELLI: It`s wonderful. Charles.

BEHAR: Charles Aznavour wrote that?

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: He is great.

MINNELLI: Yes, he is swell.

BEHAR: I once asked Rosemary Clooney the question, you know she passed away a couple of years ago.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: She was a great, great artist in my opinion.

MINNELLI: She was the best.

BEHAR: She should have won 20 Grammies. I don`t know why she did.

MINNELLI: She should have won anything.

BEHAR: I know.

MINNELLI: Anything there was to win she should have won it.

BEHAR: Most brilliant and so touching when she sang. I said to her why do you go on the road. She said it`s what I do, just like what you just said to me.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: It`s what you do. And it`s what we do. We get out there and try to make these people laugh. OK, Liza, stay right there. We`re going to be back with the legendary Liza Minnelli in just a moment. So don`t go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE AND FEMALE: Money makes the world go around, the world go around money makes the world go around, it makes the world go around it`s all that makes the world go around - that clinking banking sound.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: A great film. I`m back with Liza Minnelli who won an Oscar for her role as Sally Balding in "Cabaret" in 1972. You were a baby. We were all babies in 1972.

MINNELLI: We sure were.

BEHAR: Yes, isn`t it nice that there is a resurgence of older women on television? Look at Betty White. She is 88.

MINNELLI: I know that`s great. Oh, she is wonderful.

BEHAR: Yes.

MINNELLI: Isn`t she wonderful?

BEHAR: She is great. I mean she`s been Joan, you know.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: How old is Joan, 40, 50 now?

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: But you know, I asked you before, what was the best thing about being in a famous family. What was the worst thing? What was hard?

MINNELLI: The lack of privacy. But you learn how`d to deal with it.

BEHAR: How did you deal with it?

MINNELLI: You closed the door. Now it`s hard.

BEHAR: It would be hard now. The paparazzi are everywhere now.

MINNELLI: No, but it`s the machines.

BEHAR: What machines?

MINNELLI: Excuse me?

BEHAR: You mean the Blackberries and things?

MINNELLI: Everything.

BEHAR: Oh, yes, that.

MINNELLI: You look around for cameras and the thing. You know, I find it interesting, but I`m very aware of it all the time. Because I grew up protecting my parents.

BEHAR: Why did you have to protect them? You were the child.

MINNELLI: Because that`s the way it was. You just wanted to. We`re family. You know.

BEHAR: But you were a kid.

MINNELLI: So were we all once. Didn`t you feel responsible when you were a kid?

BEHAR: Are for my parents? Nah, let them hang.

MINNELLI: You`re baiting me something, something I ain`t going to do.

BEHAR: You know, I have to tell you something. And I don`t know if you want to talk about this, but I was at your wedding.

MINNELLI: Which one?

BEHAR: I hope the last one.

MINNELLI: Oh, you bet it was.

BEHAR: I was at that wedding. Everybody in America was at that wedding. Every famous person. There were people I hadn`t seen in 50 years. Jane Wyman.

MINNELLI: I know.

BEHAR: Jane Powell.

MINNELLI: All those poor people.

BEHAR: All the Janes. There was one row, just Janes.

MINNELLI: Yes Janes, I know.

BEHAR: You know?

MINNELLI: And they were so nice to come out for it. And you know something terrible?

BEHAR: Yes?

MINNELLI: I only found out I paid for that.

BEHAR: You paid for that wedding?

MINNELLI: Yes. I only found out about five months ago.

BEHAR: Why? You just got the bill?

MINNELLI: I just found out. No. Because I said to somebody, well, I mean that`s -- I never mention that name again.

BEHAR: We don`t have to say the name.

MINNELLI: Oh, no, no. Ever.

BEHAR: OK.

MINNELLI: And so I said well at least it was pretty. It should be. It cost however much money it cost. I said yes. And they said and you paid for it. I said oh. So what do I have to do today? Thinking OK, I got to go to work because I got the keep working.

BEHAR: So you thought that piece who shall be nameless, you thought he paid for it?

MINNELLI: Oh, sure. I didn`t know.

BEHAR: That was a sneaky thing to do, stick you with the bill. And damn, it was big wedding too.

MINNELLI: No kidding.

BEHAR: It must have cost a fortune. Oh my god. But Elizabeth Taylor was there. What was the story? She lost her shoes or something at the wedding?

MINNELLI: I think she left her shoes at the hotel.

BEHAR: So what was she at the wedding, her slippers?

MINNELLI: No, they went back and got her shoes.

BEHAR: But she was barefoot?

MINNELLI: No, we all waited. You know, it`s Elizabeth.

BEHAR: Elizabeth, oh, yes, queen Elizabeth. And Michael Jackson was -- wasn`t he the best man or an usher there?

MINNELLI: Yes. And I grabbed him.

BEHAR: You were friends with him, right?

MINNELLI: Oh, yes. So I grabbed him when I saw him when I got out of there. And I grabbed him and I said why did you let me marry this idiot? And he said I thought you liked him. You looked so happy. Your dress was so -- I don`t know. Let me go! I said Michael! How could you? He said it`s over. Relax. And then we look at each other and we started to laugh. We really -- then we really started to laugh.

BEHAR: Well, you know, you looked like you were madly in love with him. Or he looked like he was madly in love with you. He threw his tongue down your throat like he was going to kiss your lungs.

MINNELLI: Honey, did you see my face?

BEHAR: Well, you looked a little scared.

MINNELLI: A little scared? I looked like just what you said. What the! I looked like.

BEHAR: I know. Just say wtf. That gets you through everything.

MINNELLI: It was hilarious, well, some of the things I have been through make me laugh so hard when I think back.

BEHAR: You got to laugh.

MINNELLI: Oh my god.

BEHAR: You got to laugh. I mean that`s the thing.

MINNELLI: It is funny. I mean, it`s really funny. Because if you can`t look at it and rewrite it.

BEHAR: Isn`t that what comedy is about?

MINNELLI: Isn`t that what making it through and going forward and surviving is about?

BEHAR: Yes, it is.

MINNELLI: Isn`t that what women are about?

BEHAR: About women in particular.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: Well we have to laugh because we have so much aggravation in the world.

MINNELLI: Agedani (ph)

BEHAR: Did you speak Italian as a kid?

MINNELLI: No.

BEHAR: Your father did?

MINNELLI: No.

BEHAR: Oh nobody really spoke Italian.

MINNELLI: No.

BEHAR: But he was Italian, right?

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: Yes, and mom?

MINNELLI: Irish-French.

BEHAR: Irish-French, uh huh, so you`re a mixed breed.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: Anyway, we were looking at "cabaret" before. And I was thinking, that is one of the great musicals on screen. Along with I think "Chicago" I like of more recent ones, "Chicago." not your father`s were great in his time.

MINNELLI: Yes, yes.

BEHAR: It`s hard to do a musical these days. But they managed to do it in "Chicago." "Dream Girls," turned out well.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: But like "Nine" flopped, "Nine" flopped.

MINNELLI: You have to think from the audience`s point of view, I think. So if I was directing a musical, I would go sit in the theater somewhere and think, OK, if something came on the screen, what would I believe?

BEHAR: Uh huh, right.

MINNELLI: What would hook me and what would I believe?

BEHAR: Right.

MINNELLI: And that`s where you start from. I think.

BEHAR: Yes. Maybe it`s hard to translate that sort of thing on to the screen, which is why your father and Stanley Donen did beautiful work in the old days.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: OK, we`ll be back -

MINNELLI: With Gene Kelly.

BEHAR: With Gene Kelly.

MINNELLI: Yes.

BEHAR: He was a great dancer, right. Who was a better dancer? Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire?

MINNELLI: They were completely different.

BEHAR: I know but if you had to pick, if someone had a gun to your head.

MINNELLI: No, you don`t pick.

BEHAR: Come on.

MINNELLI: They`re completely different.

BEHAR: All right, I like Fred Astaire better, OK, back with more Liza Minnelli after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Liza Minnelli has shared the stage with the greatest entertainers of all time. Charles Aznavour, as she mentioned before, Sammy Davis, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, or should I say, they`ve shared the stage with her. I`m back with Liza, that must have been a period -- I really envy that time to be with the rat pack and hang out with Sinatra and Dean and those guys. Tell me something. Give me something.

MINNELLI: It`s like being with the neighbors.

BEHAR: Oh really?

MINNELLI: Well, I grew up with them.

BEHAR: You know, to you it`s nothing because you grew -- to everybody else, we`re like --

MINNELLI: Well they were so nice to me. You know, because I was like the kid. And I had a wonderful time. You know, my drummer, my conductor was there with me. So we would start and after the show we`d go eat with frank then we`d go to sally`s room and we`d, you know, rag on what happened at dinner.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

MINNELLI: Then, of course, pappy and I would go to our room and -- not our room -- my room and rag on what happened with Sam.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

MINNELLI: And then we`d go to bed and it was 6:00 in the morning --

BEHAR: Oh boy.

MINNELLI: -- and we`d get up. Now, frank used to like -- uncle Frank -- use the to like to get on a plane, arrive, get to the theater and go from the car to the stage. Sammy and I couldn`t do that.

BEHAR: Why, why not?

MINNELLI: Because we`re vaudevillians. We have to get there, rehearse, two hours, relax, get the makeup on --

BEHAR: Check sound.

MINNELLI: Check sound. Yes, own it.

BEHAR: But not Sinatra. He used to just go right there --

MINNELLI: No. That`s -- is so he did it his way and he was brilliant.

BEHAR: He was brilliant.

MINNELLI: Brilliant. We did it our way, and staging, where he went, we didn`t go.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

MINNELLI: He went there, we went here and -- you know, we just -- it was fun.

BEHAR: You know, as you`re speaking to me you`re blinding me with your jewels.

MINNELLI: Oh, thank you.

BEHAR: Which happens to be your collection. Is it not? This is very pretty.

MINNELLI: When I had my knee -- I have a new knee. You have to sit still for so long, which I`m not used to.

BEHAR: How long? Months?

MINNELLI: Yes. Couple -- yes. Couple or three months.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

MINNELLI: So I didn`t have anything to do. So they told me to work with, you know, the balls for the muscles. I thought, while I`m working clay, and then I started just molding things and I started to design stuff.

BEHAR: Those are very pretty.

MINNELLI: I did these and this.

BEHAR: Delightful.

MINNELLI: Again, all the influences that I`ve had. It`s, again, my dad. It`s New York City. It`s whatever happens.

BEHAR: It is. It`s beautiful. I think you`re going to be selling --

MINNELLI: I have a present for you.

BEHAR: You want to give it to me now or later?

MINNELLI: Yes, I do.

BEHAR: Oh, thank you, that`s beautiful, thank you very much.

MINNELLI: Isn`t that pretty?

BEHAR: Yes. Thank you so much for joining me tonight, Liza do. It`s a pleasure -

MINNELLI: Oh honey.

BEHAR: And a treat to have you here, delightful to have you here. These are good. Love. OK.

MINNELLI: Oh that`s pretty.

BEHAR: And be sure to get tickets for Liza`s upcoming nationwide tour beginning -

MINNELLI: I`ll give to this to you after.

BEHAR: June 5th through December 4th and check out the Liza collection debuting on HSN, June 30th and her new album too, "Confessions" is out this September. You are a busy, busy woman. Good night, and good night, Liza. Thank you so much.

MINNELLI: Thanks Joy.

BEHAR: And good night everybody out there.

MINNELLI: Good night everyone.

END