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Campbell Brown
Obama's Anger Management; "Culture of Corruption"
Aired June 09, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: CNN prime time begins right now.
DON LEMON, GUEST HOST: Hello, everybody. Campbell is off tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
It is day 51 -- 51 -- of the disaster in the Gulf. With each moment that passes, this devastating leak could well surpass the Exxon Valdez disaster many times over. Just look at the thousands and thousands of gallons pouring out of that busted pipe every single day.
But tonight, an interesting turn to this story: a debate heating up about the man in charge. We're talking about President Barack Obama.
While critics have called for him to vent his anger at BP, many others are asking this question: can the president really afford to be seen as an angry black man?
Plus, a surprising rise of conservative women, female candidates. Many of them Republicans, were the big winners in last night's primaries. So, are Republicans more progressive than Democrats when it comes to women?
And also tonight, stunning new information in the Joran van der Sloot case, questions over the FBI's handling of the case and whether the agency dropped the ball, allowing the prime suspect in Natalee Holloway's disappearance to travel to Peru where something unthinkable happened.
But, of course, our number one story tonight: Anger management at the White House. Today, Press Secretary Robert Gibbs faced more questions about just how angry President Obama is over the oil spill and whether it is appropriate for the president to threaten to kick somebody's ass.
Well, the controversy has been heating up ever since CBS's Chip Reid asked Gibbs last week if the president was enraged.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He's been enraged over the course of this. He has been, in a whole bunch of different meetings -- clenched jaw. I've seen rage from him, Chip, I have.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I woke up this morning, and I'm shaving and Malia knocks on my bathroom door and she peeks in her head and she says, "Did you plug the hole yet, Daddy?"
SPIKE LEE, FILMMAKER: He's very, as I know, as I've seen, calm, cool, collected. But one time, go off.
OBAMA: I am furious at this entire situation.
We talked to these folks because they potentially have the best answers, so I know whose ass to kick.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
LEMON: So, what is this all about? Is it a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't?
Joining me now to talk about all of this is Julia Reed. She is "Newsweek" contributor and author of "The House on First Street: My New Orleans Story." Author and educator, Tim Wise. And CNN political analyst, Mr. Roland Martin.
So, listen guys, thank you all for joining me tonight.
Press Secretary Robert Gibbs was asked about those comments at the White House briefing today. I want you to listen to that and then we'll talk about it
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Any second thoughts on his choice of language? And is that appropriate language for a president?
GIBBS: I just want the transcript to reflect that Ed was a little nervous about this. Jake, not so much. Just so the -- so the -- no, I've not heard any regrets about the -- about the language.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So, let's get to it.
Roland, you know, after all the uproar about him not getting angry. Once he does, more criticism. What's going on here?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's called a double standard. You know, folks once say he should get upset. Then he gets upset. And the same people who criticize him for not getting upset, all of a sudden, now, they're -- now, they're mad because he actually used a particular phrase.
But the reality is, the president, his nature is not one where he is going to have a flash of anger. He is who he is. And so, that's really what this speaks to.
And so, I don't -- I understand people want him to show some emotion, but you have to do you.
LEMON: Yes.
MARTIN: And what he's saying is, fix the problem, that's more important.
LEMON: Yes, and I want to talk to Tim about this.
Tim, you heard Roland mentioned a double standard here. When he does get angry, can he do it without being stereotyped? The Drudge Report said that president was, quote, "going street" with his comments to Matt Lauer.
TIM WISE, AUTHOR AND EDUCATOR: Well, that's the racialized language that fools like Matt Drudge and people on the right use to push those white racial resentment buttons with the public.
Look, no matter what the president does, he was going to get attacked. So, if he says something angrily, that's what's going to come from Drudge. If he says something calm, they either going to say he's being professorial.
Let me just say this, the politics are no win. The president needs, if he feels anger, to express that anger. He needs to lead from a position of principle. And I think it's an open question as to whether or not he's done enough of that.
If white folks can't handle it, if we get nervous because the big bad black man is raising his voice, that's our problem. The president shouldn't have to worry about that.
LEMON: Yes, I'm going to let you get in on this, Julia, but I want Roland -- were you laughing? Did I hear you laughing about that, why?
MARTIN: Well, first of all, whenever I get to hear Tim put some folks in check, I always have a good laugh.
LEMON: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: This subject has been going gangbusters online, in newspapers, on the blogs, on Twitter, someone said to me -- Julia, I'm going to get to you -- some said on Twitter, Maurice Lucas wrote to me, and he said, "I just feel like Obama and many black people can't win if we're angry, we're a threatening stereotype. If not, then we're too docile."
And someone else writes, "So tired of people pulling the race card. I couldn't care less what skin color one has. So, people need to get over themselves."
But, so, Julia, beyond their emotion and the president's emotional response, most Americans, almost 70 percent, according to an ABC News poll, are not happy with the government's response to this issue. JULIA REED, NEWSWEEK: Well, with good reason. I mean, this whole little side debate is absurd. I mean, it's so beside the point. I mean, nobody, first of all, wanted Obama -- I think it was ridiculous for him to say I'm going to kick ass because it didn't sound like he was angry. To me, it sounded like he was sort of play acting.
But, I mean, who -- whatever you think he was doing, nobody wants him -- I mean, I was sitting right her in River City when Ray Nagin went ballistic two days into the hurricane and started talking, you know, about getting people's asses down here and that kind of stuff, nobody thinks that's productive. Nobody wants Obama to start hollering and screaming and getting enraged. I mean, I have not faulted him for not being angry, but I would like him to bring a little pressure to bear.
I mean, it was just today that BP released the high definition video. We have not been able to find out in 51 days how much oil is really gushing into the ocean. That is a way bigger subject than what Obama said and if he should have said it.
MARTIN: Hey, Don.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on, Roland. I should say --
REED: -- or whatever.
LEMON: I want to tell Julia that you should have been watching CNN last night because we released that high definition video on CNN last night.
REED: Right. That was the first time it had been seen. I saw it again this morning on John Roberts' show.
LEMON: Let me jump in here because I want to ask -- Roland, I let you get in -- but I want to ask Tim this. You heard what Julia had to say. So, the president, when he is showing anger -- is it really off limits for him to show anger? If so, why?
WISE: Well, it's not off limits, but I agree with Julia. The real issue is action, not so much rhetoric. I think that if the president were to act angry by virtue of addressing BP as frankly the corporate criminals that I think that they are, then what he says in public wouldn't make so much of a difference. And I think that is what leadership is. He may feel like he is stuck in a bad position and that may be indeed because the possibility of triggering racial stereotypes is real.
But at some point, those racial stereo types are white folks' problem and Barack Obama doesn't need to worry about that. He needs to lead and take charge. And to the extent, he does that I think folks will understand.
REED: And the problems down here -- LEMON: Go ahead, Julia. Say it again.
REED: The problems down here -- the problems down here are so grave. I mean, I just spent a couple of days in Grand Isle. Nobody cares about race. They don't care about anything.
They care about the fact their livelihoods have been decimated, that now, with this moratorium on oil that Obama is not budging on, we're going to lose another 100,000 worth of jobs in the worst job, you know, market that I've ever seen. I mean, that's the kind of thing that we should be talking about.
And if people want to get angry at him, they've got a lot of reasons to be.
(CROSSTALK)
REED: I mean, judging his approach to this is insane.
LEMON: Go ahead, Roland.
MARTIN: But I do think we have to recognize this issue that is below the surface here. One of the reasons this president is this way, because this came up during the campaign -- his own campaign folks constantly talked about how he could not express frustration or anger because of that stereotype.
LEMON: And, Roland --
MARTIN: And look, this is an African-American.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on, Julia. Hang on, Julia.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, no, no. Follow me here.
Dee Dee Myers, the press secretary under Bill Clinton, mediaite.com has a video with her saying that he can't show anger because he's black. So, I do want us to recognize that, yes, the key issue here is plugging the leak --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And, Roland, we know what happened. Remember, the Jeremiah Wright controversy. That he was seen as the angry black man and we saw -- that nearly derailed Barack Obama's candidacy.
MARTIN: Again, I get that.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, no, no. But there is an issue here that I think we have to acknowledge that does exist, not just with President Barack Obama, but with many African-American men who are in corporate America. Look, Don, we deal with it in television and that is when you're outraged there are some things you can't do.
So, again, I can -- I can separate the conversation between the notion of an angry black man and those happening with BP oil. But understand that is a part of the equation.
WISE: But, Don --
REED: I understand that. But I don't want a white president to go around hollering and screaming and talking about kicking ass. I mean, I just think that's counter productive.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Again, a white male can say certain things that can go off and an African-American man recognizes that he cannot. I'm just saying that's relevant and it's real.
LEMON: I'm going to give -- I'm going to give Tim the last word here, Tim, because does Roland have a point here that it is a double standard when it comes to African-American men and most everyone else with comments?
WISE: Oh, he absolutely does but -- I mean, here's the irony. The irony is while we sit and talk about these racial stereotypes of danger and anger, the real damage is being done by a corporation where there's not any angry black people running it, Wall Street folks ripping off money, not angry black people. You would think that we would rethink our racial stereotypes in the face of an ecological and economic crisis that was brought to us frankly by a bunch of white guys.
So, maybe this is the opportunity to step back and deal with those stereotypes in the first place.
LEMON: All right. Julia, Tim, Roland -- thank you all very much. I'm sure this conversation will be continued online.
Roland, I'll be reading your Twitter feed as well and I hope you're reading mine. It's really going gangbusters online.
So, if you want to read more about this, go to CNN.com/politics to read more. My colleague, John Blake, wrote a great article that's on CNN.com right now. And add your comments to that as well.
Is there an easy solution to cleaning up the oil spill after all? Louisiana's governor certainly thinks so. He says he's found one. Today, he showed our very own Anderson Cooper, and Anderson is going to show you live -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Time now for our top national story tonight -- and it is, of course, oil. We have talked about the president's anger, but this next one is a really unusual -- a bit unusual to say the least. A woman walks into a Senate hearing room today armed with a whole lot of rage and what looked like a jar of oil, threatening to dump the oil on someone. But to everyone's surprise, she turns the jar on herself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM SENATE TV)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The oil from the --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're tired of the bailouts and we are tired of being dumped on in the Gulf. I'm a commercial fisherman from the Gulf of Mexico and we're tired of being dumped on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me ask the protesters to please exit the room and allow us to proceed with our hearing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, several top Democrats are pushing for legislation that would lift the current cap of $75 million on oil companies' liability.
Tonight, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal is urging BP to try something else to help clean up the oil spill, something that seems simple but could prove very powerful. The governor went out on the water today with my colleague, "360" anchor Anderson Cooper, who joins me now from New Orleans.
Anderson, what is this new device? Not new device, but what is this device that the governor showed you?
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": Yes. I mean, it's essentially kind of a rudimentary vacuum cleaner. It's basically got kind of a vacuum-like device that's connected by a long tube, could be as long as a mile, that goes to a container that's just on a barge.
They actually tried this out a couple of days ago with an 18- wheeler truck that they just put on a barge, tied it down to a barge and went out and vacuumed up the oil, just started sucking it up off the layer of water. And it seems to be working. I mean, it's very simple.
The governor will say, look, this is not, you know, a solution to the entire problem but this should be one weapon in the arsenal, in fighting this battle that they believe they are waged in, that they say they are waged in. The frustration, though, is that BP, at this point, is not paying for this and the Coast Guard hasn't agreed to put it into large-scale use.
So, really, it's only been going for now a couple of days and there are only about five of these vacuum machines that they have been using in very limited areas.
But the governor says, look, this works. This is sucking up oil. It's sucking up oil out of marshland. It's sucking up oil that is pooling along barrier islands. So why not use this instead of those absorbent pads, which is what BP is currently endorsing, which frankly are not that effective and certainly very time-consuming.
LEMON: It sounds like two things here, you know, I don't quote you wrong. It sounds like maybe bureaucracy and then cost for this. You said it's as simple as a vacuum cleaner. Most people would think they'd be using it all along. So it's the cost of this and it's the agency who's supposed to be doling it out or who can say that it can be used here?
COOPER: Well, you know, I think -- I mean, I asked the governor about that. I was like, you know, most people see this and say, look, this is simple. Why has -- you would think this thing has been deployed for weeks now already. He thinks people just kind of aren't thinking outside the box. They're kind of using old playbooks. He says you've got to throw out the playbook and you got to do whatever you can.
And this case, look, it may be unorthodox, but I mean, they literally took an 18-wheel truck, put it on a barge, roped it down and went out there. The president of Plaquemines Parish, Billy Nungesser, told me a couple days ago, essentially, it's the same equipment they use to suck out porta-potties, porta-johns, that's what they're using.
You know, there were I think some people raised some environmental concerns. But they say they haven't seen any. And the areas they're using it, I mean, there's no sign of life. These are dead zones now already. There's no bug life. There's no animal life. We saw, you know, dead crabs on the beach where this oil was.
And they're only able to suck up about 4,000 gallons a day with this, which is admittedly not very much. But, I mean, they only have five of these things. They want to see more than 100 of these things and they want larger devices that can be used. There's actually bigger -- there's bigger equipment of this stuff that's out there. This is actually used already to pick up spills on rigs and pick up any kind of spillage and extra material on rigs.
LEMON: Yes.
COOPER: The governor is saying, "Why not just use it in the water?"
LEMON: Yes. And they should be using, as you said, every tool in the arsenal to get this done.
Thank you, Anderson. Great reporting down there. We'll see you a little later here on CNN.
And Anderson has got much, much more with Governor Bobby Jindal from New Orleans tonight, "A.C. 360," 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Of course, right here on CNN.
And coming up tonight: a CNN investigation. A whistleblower comes forward to tell us what he knows about the so-called cozy relationship between the government and the oil companies. Could it have set the stage for the deadly rig explosion?
Also tonight, the Party of Lincoln has quickly turned into the party of women. Why did so many female GOP candidates do so well last night? Is it time for the Democrats to start playing catch-up here? When we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: CNN exclusive involving the federal agency that's supposed to be the watchdog of big oil.
The Minerals Management Service handles both safety inspections and collects revenue for more than 3,500 oil wells. One expert called it the nation's landlord for all the oil and gas the U.S. owns offshore. And like a landlord, it collects a rent, and it's supposed to watch out for problems.
But, now, a former official at the MMS paints a disturbing picture. CNN's Abbie Boudreau of our special investigations unit joins us now from New Orleans.
Abbie, what did you find out?
ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT: Well, Don, lately we've heard so much about MMS and finally, we're hearing from a former MMS employee who says he's been out there on the rigs with those inspectors and he says those inspectors are not doing their job.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOUDREAU (voice-over): Bobby Maxwell worked as an auditor at the Minerals Management Service for 22 years. He believes a long history of poor government inspections was partly to blame for what happened to the deepwater horizon.
BOBBY MAXWELL, FORMER MMS AUDITOR: Where was MMS when this well was being drilled? What type of inspections? Who did them? Did they give them any waivers?
Was the equipment adequate? Did they -- did they think they needed a second blowout preventer? Did they put it in? MMS is responsible for that also.
BOUDREAU (on camera): Did MMS inspector do so their job?
MAXWELL: I do not believe they did or we would not be having this disaster.
BOUDREAU: Bobby Maxwell used to supervise more than 100 MMS auditors. Their job: dig through internal oil company documents and troll for mistakes. He says his work has saved the federal government millions of dollars. His bosses at interior even gave him an award.
(voice-over): Over the years, Maxwell says he spent a lot of time on offshore oil rigs, many times right alongside MMS inspectors. He says these routine inspections seem more like field trips for federal workers.
(on camera): How much inspecting did you really see happen?
MAXWELL: When I was with them, not a lot. It just seemed like kind of a formal process we would go through. We'd show up on the rig. They'd have their checklist they would run through quickly. Check things off.
It was like "Hi, Joe, hi, John. See you this weekend at the fishing tournament."
BOUDREAU: How would you describe the culture at MMS when you were there?
MAXWELL: As a culture of corruption. And it was -- it's been proven since then by numerous, numerous investigations, comes out with hunting trips, fishing trips, drug use, all kinds of corruption. And it permeated the whole agency, both sides, both the revenue and the inspection side.
BOUDREAU (voice-over): Interior Secretary Ken Salazar admits that some MMS employees have had a cozy relationship with big oil. In response to Maxwell's criticisms, his office told CNN real change is coming. The department told us the agency will be divided into three separate and distinct entities and the changes will be, quote, "systemic and not cosmetic, because he is will aware we need to clean up the troubled agency."
(on camera): Do you think that will help the process?
MAXWELL: I think it will help. However, you still have the same people. If you had people issues with the corruption and jobs not being done, you still have the same people under the name of a new agency. So those people may not be changing what they're doing. Therefore, you have the old agency with a new name with the same corruption.
BOUDREAU: Maxwell is in the fifth year of a whistleblower lawsuit he filed against oil giant Kerr-McGee, claiming the company cheated the federal government out of millions of dollars. He also said MMS ignored audits that showed the company wasn't paying in full.
(voice-over): Kerr-McGee, which has since been acquired by Anadarko Petroleum denied the charges. But the lawsuit is still being heard by a federal judge in Denver. If Maxwell wins, he stands to gain about $6 million.
(on camera): So, what made you come forward?
MAXWELL: I just felt like I had to. I watched the change, the corruption within the organization. I watched us not being able to do the job we were hired to do and the purpose the agency was created to do, and finally decided at one point the only way to potentially change it was to stand up, be recognized and tell what was happening.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BOUDREAU: Bobby Maxwell says the only way to get rid of all of that corruption is for current MMS employees to reapply for their jobs, and that might sound a little extreme, but he says that is the only way to change this agency. He says this is a people problem. It's not a structural issue -- Don.
LEMON: All right, Abbie, thank you very much. Appreciate your reporting.
And tonight, that glass ceiling of American politics has a few more cracks in it. Coming up:, an estrogen-charged sweep on election day. Women winning coast to coast -- but could Republicans be the ones with the edge?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Man, you'd think we'd be past this by now, that people would have learned. Our number one political story tonight: another hot mic mess. You'd think politicians would have learned by now. Watch your mouth when there's a microphone nearby.
Well, that lesson was lost on California's new Republican Senate nominee, Carly Fiorina. Listen to her possibly too candid assessment of her rival, Barbara Boxer, and the GOP's pick for governor, Meg Whitman. Here she was waiting to be interviewed on KXTV this morning. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLY FIORINA (R), CALIFORNIA SENATE CANDIDATE: I find it really surprising that on the first day of the general, Meg Whitman is going on Sean Hannity. Did you hear that? I think it's bizarre. I mean, she's never been on Sean Hannity.
I think it's a very bad choice, actually. You know how he is. Louda (ph) saw Barbara Boxer briefly on television this morning and said what everyone says, God, what is that hair? So yesterday. You didn't --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Boy. Well, a spokesman for Fiorina told CNN, quote, "This was nothing but early morning small talk." To be continued for sure.
You know, this is shaping up to be the new year of the women in American politics. It was a national sweep for women in yesterday's primaries. In California, two wealthy businesswomen capture the top spots in the Republican ticket, Meg Whitman for governor and Carly Fiorina for senator. You saw her right there.
And in neighboring Nevada, Sharron Angle will face a struggling Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in November. In South Carolina, Nikki Haley fought off accusations of infidelity, grabbing a commanding lead but she still faces a primary runoff in the race for governor. And in Arkansas, two-term Senator Blanche Lincoln scored a narrow victory. Lincoln, of course, is a Democrat. But we couldn't help notice the others are all Republicans.
So, is the GOP more progressive about getting women elected?
Joining me now live to talk about it, someone who is not afraid to talk about this subject and women politics, Bay Buchanan, president of the American Cause, and CNN political contributor Hilary Rosen.
Good to see both of you. Thanks for joining us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
LEMON: So, Bay, I'm going to start with you. Are Republicans doing a better job than Democrats of grooming women candidates?
BAY BUCHANAN, PRESIDENT, THE AMERICAN CAUSE: Well, I think that would be a hard case to make because the Democrats have been doing it for about 40, 45 years now and they've done a terrific job. The feminists, I think one of the real goals, one of the major goals of the feminist movement of the '70s and '80s is to get their feminist left wing women out there to run and rerun and they were there to support them with (INAUDIBLE). So I think they did a much better job. We've never been that organized, but it's very, very exciting news what we saw yesterday in the sense -- or the other day that the sense that, first of all, Sarah was out there a year and a half or so ago and she's really energized women in our party that says, look, you can be bold, pro-life, pro-family conservative woman --
LEMON: And Bay --
BUCHANAN: And we need you out there so get out there and I think it's working.
LEMON: I'm going to talk. We're going to talk about the Sarah Palin effect in this, if any at all, just a little bit later on.
BUCHANAN: Sure.
LEMON: So hang on to that thought. But, Hilary, I want you to explain what is happening here. Aside from Blanche Lincoln, the other four women who came out ahead were Republicans, so who can take credit for women being front and center this year? Republicans, tea party activists, the general anti-incumbent mood, who can?
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL CNTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, there were a huge amount of Democrats nominated by their party, by the Democratic Party yesterday too. Overall more than Republicans. But I agree with Bay. I think it's a good thing. But, Don, we cannot let the moment pass. Carly Fiorina being so obnoxious on that tape, it's just --it's just shameful.
LEMON: You would think we would have learned by now that politicians would have learned by now if there's a microphone and we've seen it over and over and it happens every election season. ROSEN: It's not just stupid as a political move. It says something about who she is, which is really kind of bitter and vengeful and I think kind of not really fit to be a public servant. I just --
BUCHANAN: It's silly.
ROSEN: You know, she laid off 25,000 people the last year she was the CEO.
LEMON: Yes. So --
BUCHANAN: Hilary, that's just so silly.
ROSEN: This is not a good Senate candidate.
LEMON: Bay, I think this deserves a response. Go ahead, Bay.
BUCHANAN: The first thing is she's not a politician. That's why we love her so much. That's why the country -- across the country we see people who are not politicians doing so well. She is not familiar with all this. She's not been primetime for long. But she'll get used to it. Her mistake was a minor one. What she said was not offensive to anybody. It's just kind of political talk. What's good strategy, what's bad strategy. She learned her lesson. She's a smart gal. She's a tough gal. I think you're going to see her --
LEMON: But here's --
BUCHANAN: -- that will give Barbara Boxer a run for her money, I'll guarantee that.
LEMON: Here's what I'm going to ask. You know, Bay, you talked about the Sarah Palin effect because I think she endorsed four people, three of them won, right?
BUCHANAN: Yes, yes.
LEMON: She has some appeal it appears. She has some clout. But all of the women that you see here, they have - they're a different kind of candidate. They have a different kind of story. So you said that she wasn't a politician. So was that part of what came into play here, people are looking for someone different like a Sarah Palin?
BUCHANAN: Oh, absolutely. They're looking for -- it's a very anti-establishment. They're looking for new, fresh faces because they realize that establishment in both parties have really failed this country. That they've been in office for a long time and they cannot seem to take a handle on the real problems that we're facing. They're making bad decisions and the country is against them because they feel they're taking the country in the wrong direction.
LEMON: OK.
ROSEN: That happened historically.
BUCHANAN: These women can do this.
LEMON: We're running out of time but Hilary, this last question for you. I want to talk about the perils of politics, shall we say, being one of the boys. Nikki Haley in South Carolina facing the same scrutiny as men do when it comes to infidelity. Nowadays, women in politics are not immune, are they?
ROSEN: No, I don't think they're immune and I don't think women want to be immune. You know, but I think the point is that when people are looking for change, women still do tend to represent change in politics and that's a good thing for both parties. But when you look at what Democratic women candidates offer for families and for working people, that, you know, overwhelmingly voters -- women voters are Democrats.
LEMON: Yes.
ROSEN: That's still true. And I think that's going to be true in the fall election as well.
LEMON: Hilary Rosen, that's going to have to be the last word. Bay Buchanan, thank you. Thanks to both of you, OK.
BUCHANAN: Sure.
LEMON: A shocking twist in the van der Sloot murder case. How an FBI sting helped bankroll his trip to Peru, a trip that ended in a young woman's violent death. We'll have that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Still ahead, more on Joran van der Sloot. How the confessed killer slipped through the cracks of an FBI sting operation.
But first, Gary Tuchman has some of the other stories we're following tonight for you -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Don. A standoff on the U.S. border with Mexico today as tensions mount after a Mexican teenager was fatally shot by a U.S. border patrol agent. Pointing their rifles, Mexican security forces chased away American authorities investigating the case. It has sparked a diplomatic rift and enraged Mexicans who see the killing of the boy on Mexican soil as an act of murder.
Iran is slapped with yet another round of sanctions. The U.N. Security Council today adapting tough new measures in an attempt to force the republic to suspend its nuclear program. President Obama is saying Tehran is still free to negotiate with the U.S. but must freeze all activities that could lead to the development of a nuclear weapon.
Taliban militant shot down a NATO helicopter in southern Afghanistan that killed four U.S. servicemen today. The chopper crashed in Helmand Province, a stronghold of Taliban fighters trying to topple the government. And in Pakistan, trucks carrying oil and other supplies bound for NATO troops came under fire in the outskirts of Islamabad. Five people in the convoy were killed.
And another breakup in the Gore family. Sources telling CNN Karenna Gore Schiff, the oldest daughter of the former vice president has separated from her husband after 13 years of marriage. They have three children. The news comes just a week after Al and Tipper Gore announced their own split. They were married 40 years.
Tough times for the Gore family, Don.
LEMON: Right. Gary Tuchman, thank you very much. We appreciate that.
Coming up, the Joran van der Sloot murder case. The FBI, did they bungle a sting, bungle it with deadly consequences? We're going to talk about that next. You guys are tweeting about that as well and I'm checking your responses. Go to donlemon.CNN (ph) or go to CNN.com/Campbell and we'll get it on the air for you.
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LEMON: You can certainly call this one the water cooler story of the year really. Another bombshell in the Joran van der Sloot murder investigation. The FBI today confirmed it gave the Dutch national $25,000 in private funds as part of an undercover sting operation, money he later used to bankroll his trip to Peru where he met and allegedly killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores. Gary Tuchman joins us now with the very latest on this -- Gary.
TUCHMAN: Don, the FBI's intentions were good but it's entirely possible that Joran van der Sloot used money given to him by the FBI to help fund his trip to South America where he has reportedly confessed to killing a 21-year-old Peruvian woman. Van der Sloot was expected to be formally charged soon with the murder of Stephany Flores, received $25,000 just a few weeks ago as part of an undercover FBI investigation into the disappearance of Alabama teenager Natalee Holloway. The FBI tells us the funds involved were private funds, but acknowledges that van der Sloot did indeed get the money.
We're told van der Sloot promised the Holloway family he would give information that would lead to the body of Natalee Holloway in exchange for a total of $250,000. An attorney for the Holloways reported the information to law enforcement officials and the FBI and the U.S. state attorney's office in Birmingham, Alabama, then got the ball rolling. They arranged for a meeting where an undercover agent paid van der Sloot $10,000 in cash and another $15,000 in a wire transfer. Van der Sloot was told the rest of the money would get to him once the body was found.
Well, not surprisingly, van der Sloot lied. Information he gave did not check out, which should surprise no one, because this man arrested twice in connection with the Holloway disappearance, only to be released each time, has publicly lied before. He ended up traveling to South America and the rest is tragic history. And last week, three days after the killing in Peru, van der Sloot was charged with extortion and wire fraud in connection with the Holloway case. Now, obviously law enforcement had no idea about the tragedy about to occur in Peru, but why wasn't van der Sloot arrested before he left Aruba?
The FBI and the U.S. attorney's office tell us, "We offer our heartfelt sympathy to the Flores family. The Birmingham investigation was not related in any way to the murder in Peru. Despite having been in motion for several weeks at the time of Miss Flores' death, it was not sufficiently developed to bring charges prior to the time van der Sloot left Aruba."
An attorney for Natalee Holloway's father is hoping that despite van der Sloot's demeanor over the last five years, what's happened in Peru gives him a conscience.
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VINDA DE SOUSA, ATTORNEY FOR DAVE HOLLOWAY: What we're hoping for is that something -- now that he was confronted with evidence, clear evidence, there is a body, DNA can be collected and was collected, that he can no longer deny that he was involved, that something might compel him to shed some light on what happened with Natalee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Van der Sloot hired a private attorney today. A reenactment of the crime that he reportedly offered to give investigators at the murder scene today was cancelled, most likely at the request of that attorney. And, Don, this man at the very least is a piece of work, he really is.
LEMON: You said it. Thank you, Gary. But one thing is for sure, though, Stephany Flores would no doubt be alive if the FBI had acted sooner. But do they bear any responsibility for her death?
Joining me now from Seattle, former prosecuting attorney Anne Bremner.
Anne, thank you so much for joining me tonight.
ANNE BREMNER, FMR. PROSECUTOR: Thanks.
LEMON: Did the FBI drop the ball here? They had Joran on tape. You heard our Gary Tuchman said taking $25,000 to give up where Natalee's body was buried.
BREMNER: Right.
LEMON: So what were they waiting for? Why not grab him on the spot and squeeze him for more information?
BREMNER: They should have. And the fact is they said we weren't trying to solve a white collar crime, we were trying to solve a murder. And that's the statement that says it all, Don, because they had a completed crime when they had the money. They had -- that's what extortion is, through threats or unacceptable methods, you get money. Committed crime done, arrestable at the time. So the fact is, is they basically were trying to, you know, get his head on a stick and heads are going to roll there by. I mean --
LEMON: But here's what -- they claim that they didn't have enough evidence to bring extortion charges. But could they have been too focused on maybe making the murder case? Were they just being greedy here?
BREMNER: Yes. Well, you know, I think the fact is that they had enough to make the extortion case at that time. But the fact of the matter is they wanted more. They wanted to find the body. And that's laudable. That's what they were out to do. But in the meantime they gave the means to Joran van der Sloot and the wings of money to go to Peru and commit a crime. And that's a horrible situation. They're not responsible for it, but they could have arrested him when the money was exchanged.
LEMON: We've heard you've heard Gary talk about it. You mentioned just a little bit. The Aruban government was brought in on the FBI's operation and the officials there warned the FBI that Joran was about to bolt the island.
BREMNER: Yes. That's right.
LEMON: So why take the chance to let him leave?
BREMNER: Right. And that's the other interesting thing that's just amazing is that they know and they're told that he's going to leave and they don't do anything to stop him. And he had $25,000 in cash. That's a lot of money to anybody.
LEMON: Yes, and just --
BREMNER: And off he goes. Go ahead, I'm sorry.
LEMON: And just four days after that FBI sting, after that meeting, he took the money --
BREMNER: Right.
LEMON: -- and he used it to go to South America where he admits now killing Stephany Flores.
BREMNER: Right.
LEMON: So, you know as I asked at the top of this story when I introduced you, is the FBI to blame for any of this?
BREMNER: It's a moral question, it's a legal question. The legal question is no. There's no legal requirement for them to have prevented something like this. It's called the public duty doctrine. A duty to everybody is a duty to nobody. Unless there's some statute or some promise of brevity. So the answer is no, they're not legally responsible.
LEMON: All right.
BREMNER: Would they be legal -- go ahead.
LEMON: No, go ahead. I want you to finish your thoughts.
BREMNER: I was just going to say with respect to Beth Holloway, they did make a promise to her. They made her a promise that they wouldn't let him leave. She might have a federal claim in terms of emotional distress and outrage. But in terms of the claim from Stephany Flores' family, that's a very, very difficult claim to make under Bivens or the Tort Claim Act.
LEMON: And you saw the development today we talked about with Alabama and the statement they put out.
BREMNER: Yes.
LEMON: They finally brought the extortion charges just a few hours after Joran was nabbed in South America for the Flores' murder.
BREMNER: Right.
LEMON: Could that actually have been a coincidence or do you buy that? Do you think they said, oh, we better do something?
BREMNER: You know, the fact that they said that they didn't have enough to arrest him and then yet they file anyway shortly after she's found, it can't be a coincidence. It simply has to be something where they said oh, my God, look what happened. We have to act.
LEMON: Where do you see this going next?
BREMNER: I think there's going to be a lot of soul searching. I also think they said that he was -- you know, they could never know anything because he lied. He told them she was in a house that wasn't even built in '05 at the time of the homicide.
I think there's going to be a lot of looking at whether or not you do these kinds of things. I think that Joran van der Sloot in this case is looking at a lesser sentence in Peru, at 35 years and even less because of voluntary intoxication and his confession presumably. So he may well have extraditions to other places, including Aruba.
LEMON: Yes. And listen, I know that the story, everyone is talking about this story. It's very relatable to women. Every woman I talked to says it is a shame.
BREMNER: Yes.
LEMON: And that this might have finally been some justice for Natalee Holloway's family but you're saying he may get a lesser sentence, so we don't know.
Thank you, Anne Bremner, former prosecutor in Seattle. Appreciate it.
BREMNER: My pleasure. Thank you.
LEMON: And coming up, you know what it is, "M2." We're talking about Mary Matalin and Roland Martin. They take on some hot topics, including the latest comments from GOP Chairman Michael Steele aimed directly at the man in the Oval Office.
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LEMON: Time now for "M2," our unique take on the day's headlines from Mary Matalin and Roland Martin.
Hey, guys, what do you have?
MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, thanks, Don. Roland, you know, both of us know that the DNC and the RNC when they put out talking points --
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
MATALIN: -- they don't typically attach to the common sense person. It's for party insiders.
MARTIN: Sure.
MATALIN: But when Michael Steele of the RNC said -- pointed out that Obama was so willing, ready and campaigned on talking directly to Ahmadinejad but he won't talk to Tony Hayward, it just had such a ring of common sense.
MARTIN: Here's the reality, it's politics. I think the people who live and breathe politics, they probably will care more about this than anybody else, but I doubt the average person out there really gives a flip if a president is talking to the CEO of BP who may very well just keep spinning some yarn.
MATALIN: So we're talking about an administration that wants to put their boot on his neck, wants to kick his ass, wants to do everything but talk to him. A, unpresidential. B, do you think going to your argument, this is the one that was the common sense point for me.
MARTIN: Right.
MATALIN: As if he sat down and had direct talks with Ahmadinejad, Ahmadinejad wouldn't just spin him? He's off his game.
MARTIN: Of course. Look, I don't think there's any comparison frankly between the BP CEO, Ahmadinejad. So Michael Steele, you're scored a political point but the reality is the average person, they really don't care.
Speaking of the average person, Mary, South Carolina, crazy Senate race on the Democratic side. Give a guy who runs for the Democratic nomination, no Web site, no fund-raising, basically didn't campaign, but he wins 59 percent of the vote. But guess what, now the story comes out.
MATALIN: What?
MARTIN: Alvin Greene has a felony charge pending against him and now state Democratic officials want him to drop out of the race. This is nuts.
MATALIN: You know, what does it say about the Democrat that was running against him, the state chairman in -- the Democratic state chairman said, well, people were voting alphabetically. This doesn't make any sense. But this gives all new meaning to the concept of newcomer. You're a newcomer that nobody knows.
MARTIN: I mean, look, it's also indictment frankly on the people who were voting. They simply just voted for anybody without even knowing what the guy stands for. The good thing, though, the guy is an unemployed veteran and so I guess, you know, if you want a job, what the heck, run for the U.S. Senate.
MATALIN: There you go, because now public officials are making -- government employees are making more money than the private sector.
MARTIN: There you go.
MATALIN: Roland, I'm going to blow your mind because my favorite topic for the past couple of weeks has been in the sports arena. You turned me into it.
MARTIN: Stunner. Stunner. Jesus is coming back now that Mary truly is into sports.
MATALIN: And you know why? Because everything that undergirds our need for faith and hope, all these values are being played out in the sports arena. We had hype that matched the merit in the Strasburg, Stephen Strasburg, pitcher for the Nats last night was a killer.
MARTIN: Right.
MATALIN: We had perseverance and teamwork in the Saints winning the Super Bowl. We had Armando's grace in accepting apology, the umps courage in offering one.
MARTIN: For screwing up.
MATALIN: And all these things you try to teach your kids and they're all doing it in the sports arena. You need to get LeBron to stay in Cleveland, then we can learn loyalty.
MARTIN: Well, first of all, look, I want him to come to the Houston Rockets. So what the heck.
Let me say this. First of all, with the perfect game, Major League Baseball, stop being idiots. Get instant replay. That's why we have technology. But also I'll tell you this about Strasburg. Look, I played baseball growing up, used to love it. Was an Astro buddy when I was a kid. Can't stand baseball now. This sport desperately needs stars. I actually watched three innings of baseball watching this guy pitch. Trust me, that is amazing. So baseball should embrace stars because they need them, Mary.
MATALIN: Take me out to the ball game. I want you to come to the next game. Any one, that's anyone. Let's go.
MARTIN: She's saying anyone. Actually, remember, I'm from Houston. It will be an Astros game.
All right, Mary, we've got to go. Don, back to you.
LEMON: All right, Mary. Keep your day job or night job or whatever. Thanks, guys.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes. But up next, tonight's "Punch Line." Here's a sample from Jimmy Kimmel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": The oil spill in the gulf has now lasted longer, cost more and destroyed more wildlife than Sarah Palin.
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LEMON: Finally, tonight's "Punch Line," the best of late night. Let's just say it is a sticky situation.
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JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON": The Obamas invited members of Congress to a picnic at the White House. Yes, they played all the classic picnic games. Whistle ball, capture the flag, and their favorite game, ignore the oil spill.
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE JAY LENO SHOW": Well, you know, in an interview on NBC, President Obama said that he would have fired BP CEO Tony Hayward if he worked for him. But unfortunately, as you know, the White House works for BP, so his hands were tied. There's not really much you can do.
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE COLBERT REPORT": Right now from a PR perspective, it's as if BP sold cadmium-tainted Shrek glasses to a Gaza-bound flotilla while cheating on Sandra Bullock with Joran van der Sloot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Very funny. I happened to be on there last night.
Hey, it's been a great show. Hope you guys enjoyed it. Lots of you are tweeting tonight about Joran van der Sloot, about the subject we had at the top of the show. But here's what I want to show you. People are asking you why do you carry the iPad? I don't use scripts anymore. That's it right there.
That's it for now. Thanks for joining us. Larry King starts right now.
