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Jane Velez-Mitchell
New Developments in Joran Van Der Sloot Case; Update on Missing Mom
Aired June 15, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, hair-raising developments in the Joran Van Der Sloot case. In a desperate bid to get back to Aruba, Joran offered to tell where Natalee`s body is, but instead, Aruban authorities could be coming to him in Peru. And we`re learning more about Joran`s obsession with gambling. Is he a gambling addict? And is that why he may have targeted big poker winner, Stephany Flores?
Plus, an update in the mind-boggling disappearance of missing mom, Susan Powell. She vanished six months ago in Utah. Husband, Josh, was repeatedly questioned about why he took their young sons on a midnight camping trip in freezing temperatures the very night she went missing. Now, her desperate family is taking matters into their own hands plastering her face on a massive billboard. What happened to Susan?
And this video from two years ago shows little Caylee Anthony just before she disappeared. She wasn`t reported missing until a month later. Her mom, Casey, is charged with murder. Today, Caylee`s grandparents, George and Cindy, are speaking out. What Cindy is saying about her infamous 911 call inside their torturous ordeal and how they feel about their accused daughter, Casey today? ISSUES! starts now.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fast breaking news out of Peru. Authorities play a very dangerous game of connect the dots hoping the one person who knows what happened to Alabama teenager, Natalee Holloway, will finally crack even if it`s just to save himself. Joran Van Der Sloot, who has reportedly confessed to the cold-blooded murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez now fears for his life. He is locked up in a Peruvian prison that is jam- packed with the country`s most hardened dangerous criminals, convicts who would not think twice about killing him. In a desperate attempt to escape life in the perilous Miguel Castro Castro Prison, will Joran finally reveal where he dumped Natalee`s body?
Joran says I`ll be honest about Natalee`s body but only, only will I talk to Aruban police. He`s begging to be extradited out of Peru to Aruba. Well, tonight, a stunning end run around Joran. As we speak, Peruvian authorities are working furiously to grant Aruban police permission to go to Peru to interrogate Joran there. Oops, not exactly what Joran wanted. He wanted out.
Plus, more on Joran`s alleged confession in the murder of Stephany Flores as he admits to smashing her nose, slamming her head, strangling her, and smothering her with his blood-drenched t-shirt.
Now, take a look at this mind, mind-blowing video. Joran minutes after the killing wearing fresh clothing, mugging for hotel surveillance cameras, pretending to bring coffee, two cups, right one for him, one for Stephany Flores. Guess what, she`s already dead in a pool of blood right behind that door. And only on ISSUES! We will look tonight at whether Joran was addicted to alcohol, gambling and maybe even murder. They call it cross-addicted. I want to hear from you. Give me a call, 1-877-jvm- says. That`s 1-877-586-7297. Straight out to my fantastic expert panel.
We also have a very special guest tonight, Natalee`s aunt. But first to Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on truTV. She is smack in the middle of the action in Peru. Jean, what is the very latest?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: It is official because for the first time today, authorities in Aruba by telephone contacted Peruvian officials, namely the judge in this case. They spoke with him. They said that they would like to be involved in this investigation to be privy to information. They will give information. They would like also to receive information. So, formalities have to be adhered to. The next step is to get an order. They will ask formal permission to come. A judge will grant the order or not grant the order. If he does granted, Aruban officials say they`ll be on their way right here to Lima, Peru.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are honored to welcome Linda Allison, Natalee`s Aunt, as a guest tonight. Linda, thank you so much for joining us. Your brother, Dave Holloway, is back in Aruba tonight meeting with Aruban authorities about this slew of new developments. Let`s listen, first of all, to your brother, Dave.
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DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE`S FATHER: My role in this has always been, you know, to find Natalee. If we find her, that will resolve the entire case. So, that`s where I stand on it.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda, your family -- we don`t need to say it -- has been through hell. What was your reaction and Dave`s reaction to the news when it first came out that Joran Van Der Sloot was suspected of murdering a young woman in Peru on the fifth anniversary of your niece, Natalee`s disappearance?
LINDA ALLISON, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S AUNT: I guess, two words could sum it up. Shock and disbelief that he would actually have committed a crime in another country and it be very similar to the situation that we were dealing with in Aruba.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you think there was any significance to the anniversary aspect of it?
ALLISON: I did think it was very odd, usual, that there was -- that exact day. I don`t know if there was something that triggered in his mind with the anniversary of that day or if it was just another day for him, but obviously, his anger overcame him from listening to some of the news reports. And unfortunately, now, we have another situation on our hands in another country, and it`s just a really sad situation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A lot of people, let`s face it, had given up hope that we`d ever learn the truth about what happened to your niece, Natalee, because Joran was such a denier as well as a liar. Here he is on ABC`s "Nightline." Let`s listen for a second.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Natalee Holloway?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, SUSPECTED IN DISAPPEARANCE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you harm Natalee?
VAN DER SLOOT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you help someone else who harmed Natalee Holloway?
VAN DER SLOOT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see Natalee Holloway in distress?
VAN DER SLOOT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you sure about all those answers?
VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda, he has told so many conflicting stories and lies. Your family has desperately looked for answers for five long years. Here`s my question. Would you and your family be willing to see Joran extradited to Aruba, which is what he desperately wants or given a more lenient sentence for murdering Stephany Flores in Peru in exchange for the true story of where Natalee`s body is
ALLISON: As you know, our family is pretty desperate for answers to find out what ever happened to Natalee and in the whole disappearance. And although in this situation, I think it`s just something that`s really out of our control as far as what the authorities decide between Peru officials and Aruba officials. And yes, we would like answers, but I think that`s something that`s just really out of our control.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the heels of Stephany`s murder, Joran, of course, as we all know now, was charged in the United States with extortion. Natalee`s mom, Beth, was reportedly working with the FBI on this extortion sting. So my question to you, Linda, do you think Beth was trying to put Joran behind bars for extortion or just get him to tell the truth about what happened to her daughter?
ALLISON: You know, I cannot speak on Beth`s behalf. But I feel like, based on all the information that I have seen, it`s another opportunity to get him to the United States to be able to question him further to find out what Natalee -- whatever happened to her in the disappearance of -- from five years ago. But then, also, if it meant putting him behind bars so that he would not have the potential to harm anyone else, that would be another motive for doing that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Frankly, I almost fell off my chair when I heard reports, and I have no independent confirmation that the private money may have come from Beth Holloway, herself. I mean, how much hell does this woman have to go through now to reportedly be the person who gave him the money -- she didn`t know about it but gave him the money to possibly go to Peru where he did something heinous?
ALLISON: Right. And I think at the time, with all the information that they had at hand and of course going to the FBI and having at least some professional advice on how that was all going to play out -- of course, no one would have ever foreseen these circumstances that he would immediately go to another country and then several days later be involved in a murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievably, Van Der Sloot`s friends are still saying he`s a great guy. Here is last night`s "Nancy Grace." check this out. It`s unbelievable.
All right. Well, you know what, essentially -- I know it`s got to be very offensive to you, Linda, but Joran`s friends are saying, you know, oh, he`s a good guy and he really lost his magic once this whole situation with Natalee Holloway came out. It`s so outrageous to me that they would actually be blaming his situation on Natalee`s disappearance.
ALLISON: I think the friends really need to wake up and realize that we`re dealing with a sociopath, that Joran has done so many things where he`s broken the law, but he`s been able to get away with it. And I don`t know if that`s the perspective that they`re thinking, that he -- there`s no harm in what he has done. And, of course, we see differently now where we have actual evidence this time in Peru.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda, I have to say, listening to you and watching you, you seem very controlled, very -- obviously, a person who has got a lot of self control, but underneath that, is there just tremendous rage and anger, grief, sadness? What are your emotions? Could you let us inside for a second?
ALLISON: Right. I tell you, we try to keep our composure on television. And it`s really difficult. And we go through all those emotions. We`re upset. We`re desperate. We`re so many different things. We get of course emotional. We get very sad. My days are very emotional all day long, very stressful. Just because our mind is on this case at hand, what happened in Aruba and looking for answers.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want you to know that we are determined to find answers as well, and we`re going to keep this story alive. I want to thank you, Linda Allison, and I hope for the best for you and your family.
ALLISON: Thank you, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to move on with our expert panel in a moment and we`re taking your calls on this. 1-877-jvm-says.
Also, two years ago, little Caylee Anthony was seen for the very last time. George and Cindy now talking about their ordeal on this anniversary. And you will not believe what Cindy is saying about her potentially incriminating 911 call.
Plus, so much more to talk about in Joran Van Der Sloot`s case. We`re going to talk addiction next. Unbelievable.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He totally, totally tried to solve Joran Van Der Sloot. It`s just despicable what he has done. It`s a sad form of a human existence.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just hope that he comes clean. He`s got an account to settle, and I hope he settles it on this earth this time. He doesn`t, you know, God bless him.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, an international chess game, Joran Van Der Sloot pulls out all the stops to get out of an infamous Peruvian prison where he is charged with murder and back to Aruba, promising to tell what really happened to Natalee but only to Aruban authorities. Now, those Aruban authorities say, hey, guess what, Joran, we`re going to fly to you in Peru to get the truth.
Famed attorney Gloria Allred. Do you think Joran will spill the truth about Natalee while still jailed in Peru or will he demand something in return?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, Jane, it appears that he`s given at least five different so-called confessions so far, and that`s before the murder of Stephany. So, the question is, can he be believed if he gives a sixth confession? Can he be believed? I think he will try to get something if he gives any information whatsoever. But this is not a man who is going to get freedom.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can they play these kinds of international chess games? In other words, can the Peruvian and the Aruban authorities kind of bargain back and forth. OK, you can take him back to Aruba if he proves that he`s going to show us where it is or Peruvian authorities perhaps giving him a lighter sentence if he`s convicted on the murder, Stephany Flores, in return for getting this big of coup of figuring out what happen in Natalee?
ALLRED: Jane, we`ll have to see what the Peruvian judge decides. Apparently, the Peruvian judge has already decided that it`s OK for Aruban authorities to come to Peru and all they have to do is make a formal request. They will be there. Apparently, they are going to be able to interview Van Der Sloot. So, it may be that since they are going to cooperate that the Peruvian judge will go farther if necessary to help Aruban authorities find Natalee Holloway.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But remember, Stephany Flores, her dad is very prominent in Peru, once ran for national office. So, if he gets leniency for killing that girl, the Peruvian young woman, this woman you`re looking at, in return for saying what happened to Natalee, there could be outrage. Outrage, Jean Casarez, in Peru.
CASAREZ: That`s right. But you know, every story that I see on the air, Natalee Holloway is in the story. So, she is at the top of every newscast herself. But this is a 21-year-old University of Lima been a student that was found murdered, one of the worst murders in a long time in Lima. And the focus is Stephany Flores, you`re right. And by law, they have to focus on the criminal investigation and now the legal case of defendant Van Der Sloot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s my big issue tonight. Booze and bets, is Joran cross-addicted to alcohol and gambling. Joran allegedly quickly gambled away much of the 25 grand he got from the recent extortion. Joran also admits he drank ten whiskey drinks the night Stephany was murdered. Take a look at the surveillance video, he`s dead in the eyes. We tracked down what we think is Joran`s personal Facebook page. His profile picture is an empty whiskey bottle. That`s right, an empty bottle whiskey, Johnnie Walker red label. OK. Let me ask you this. Dr. Reef Karim, does this sound like a case of gambling addiction and possibly alcohol addiction?
DR. REEF KARIM, PSYCHIATRIST: Yes, this is interesting. I treat gambling addiction on a regular basis at the control center which is a center that specializes in behavioral addictions. And gambling addiction can have severe, severe consequences. It`s often co-morbid which means it exists at the same time as other problems, other psychological disorders like depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, and here`s the big one, antisocial personality disorder. So, you can find many gamblers -- not all, but quite a few gamblers that also have sociopathic tendencies or antisocial personality types.
When you add in the alcohol that impairs judgment -- now, look, this guy -- you know, we don`t know the whole story, but he may have this sociopathy mixed in with poor judgment with alcohol mixed in with this gambling problem that makes him so desperate for money and desperate for really anything in life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Karen, Nevada, your question or thought, ma`am?
KAREN, NEVADA: Yes. Hi. Van Der Sloot`s mother -- now that her husband is dead, don`t you think as a mother she would come forward with any information that she might have about Natalee Holloway? And could she be criminally charged?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria?
ALLRED: Well, I think the mother is going to be very protective of her son. Apparently, she hasn`t come forward so far with any information she has, if she has any. We don`t know that. But, Jane, let me just say one more thing about gambling. It may be that Joran Van Der Sloot has taken the biggest gamble of his life. That would be killing Stephany and thinking he could get away with it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow! That is heavy duty. All right. Stay right where you are. We`re just getting started.
Also, six months ago, Susan Powell vanished. With few leads, her heartbroken family pleading for the public`s help. We will talk to Susan`s devastated father.
But next, could Joran Van Der Sloot --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d say he had a gambling addiction. He`d play poker almost every night. I know he had money, but he ran a coffee shop in Thailand. So, he had some money saved for that. But after a while, his money started running low and that`s when I guess he tried to contact John Kelly or Beth Holloway and that stuff happened when he started running out of money.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joran Van Der Sloot charged in the brutal murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores who by the way won at poker that night, won thousands of dollars while she was sitting next to loser, Joran Van Der Sloot. I wonder if he was jealous and coveted her winnings which he later allegedly stole. Gloria, Nevada, your question or thought, ma`am.
GLORIA, NEVADA: Hi, Jane. How are you doing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi. Good. Doing great.
GLORIA, NEVADA: I was just noticing right now when I was watching the taping where he`s coming out of the room. I know Natalee Holloway has been missing for five years but look at the number of the room he got. It has number 5. You notice the video camera with the two coffee cups he has? That just caught my attention. It`s -- I don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s right to the right of the door. It looks like it could be room number 5. Five-year anniversary. Dr. Reef Karim, you`re also a psychiatrist along with being an addiction specialist. I know sometimes addicts get very into symbolism and gambling addicts would certainly be into numbers. Could there be a significance here?
KARIM: Who knows? Numerology is definitely something that if people have more of an obsessional quality about what they do and some gambling addicts absolutely do. That could come into play. Also, sociopaths, if we`re talking about a sociopath here, which would be highly likely, also believe in rituals and ritualistic behavior. So, it`s within the realm of possibility. This is not an extreme thought here. There could be something to this.
Gambling addicts are incredibly desperate. About 1 percent of the population meets criteria for pathological gambling. They often mix with alcohol, so they impair their judgment. And all bets are off, to use the pun, when you`re talking about somebody who is really desperate and altered.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria Allred, you`ve covered so many cases throughout your career. Here`s a guy who got a huge credit limit from his dad when he was still under age to go illegally gamble in the casinos. He meets Stephany Flores in a casino. He meets Natalee Holloway in a casino. He was also in Peru to be in a gambling tournament. So, obviously, we`ve got this theme of his obsession with gambling. And I love what you said about taking it to the next level and ultimately gambling with somebody else`s life.
ALLRED: Well, exactly. And apparently, he`s been supported in his gambling habit. So, this is a risk-taker extraordinaire. But his problem is he`s taken not an educated risk but uneducated risks. And, you know, he`s gambled with his own life on this. And I think it`s a gamble he is most likely going to lose.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. He could lose this gamble big time, although, he has managed to cajole and charm his way out of a bunch of very, very sticky situations. And I just pray and hope that when Peruvian authorities allow the Aruban authorities into Peru, they don`t allow the Aruban authorities to leave with Joran and take him back. Oh, my gosh. We`ve got more.
And also, where is Susan Powell? She`s been missing for six months. We`re going to talk to her devastated -- and I mean devastated father -- next.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: An update in the mind-boggling disappearance of missing mom Susan Powell. She vanished six months ago in Utah. Now her desperate family is taking matters into their own hands, plastering her face on a massive billboard. What happened to Susan?
And this video from exactly two years ago shows little Caylee Anthony just before she disappeared. She wasn`t reported missing until a month later. Her mom Casey is charged with her murder. Today Caylee`s grandparents, George and Cindy, are speaking out: what Cindy is saying about her infamous 911 call; inside their torturous ordeal; and how they feel about their accused daughter Casey today.
Twists and turns in the Joran Van Der Sloot murder case after allegedly confessing to elbowing Stephany Flores Ramirez in the nose, strangling her and smothering her with his blood-drenched T-shirt. Joran Van Der Sloot is begging -- begging to be extradited back to Aruba. In exchange he says he will reveal the location of Natalee Holloway`s body.
But tonight Aruban authorities say they may have an end run around this fellow right here. They may be going to Peru.
And we are staying on top of this story and we are going to bring you the very latest developments as we get them, because we don`t want this guy, ok, to get out of that Peruvian prison and head back to the sunny climes of Aruba. We want him to stay there and pay for his crimes.
He has reportedly confessed to a vicious murder and he did the crime, he needs to do the time in a Peruvian prison, which is an infamous, infamous locale where he`s going to have to watch his back.
All right.
We`re going to move on right now to another really gut-wrenching story; a heartbroken family desperate for answers. What happened to Susan Powell?
This beautiful mother vanished in Salt Lake City, Utah, on December 7th. She has not been seen since. Tonight family members fear the worst but they refuse to give up hope.
Susan`s father has now put up a giant billboard -- take a look at it -- near his home in Washington State. Trying everything he can do to bring his daughter back home.
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CHUCK COX, FATHER OF SUSAN POWELL: As her father and here in Seattle and this happened down in Salt Lake City or they disappeared from that area, I feel just totally helpless.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, is Susan still alive? She vanished in the dead of night. Her husband, Josh, has been at the center of the investigation from day one.
He claims he took his two young sons, both under the age of 5, on a late night camping trip. This was after midnight in freezing, freezing temperatures. He says when he came home, his wife was gone.
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JOSH POWELL, HUSBAND OF SUSAN POWELL: A lot of times I`d just go camping with my boys. Not anything big. Just go overnight and we do s`mores and stuff like that and so I just went with the boys.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Camping with toddlers in freezing temperatures in the middle of the night. It`s an odd time for s`mores.
Joining me now with more on this desperate search, Susan`s heartbroken devastated father Chuck Cox; also joining me, former D.C. homicide detective Rod Wheeler.
Chuck Cox, first of all, our hearts go out to you. We want to help you find your daughter. We want to keep this case alive. These last six months obviously living hell for you.
What are cops telling you about what they have learned from their extensive investigation into your daughter`s disappearance?
COX: Well, they`re not sharing any details of their investigation with me other than that they are currently -- continue to chase down leads and look into all possibilities.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they`re not talking to you? They`re not saying, hey, we tested that wet stain that was found on the carpet of the Powell home shortly after police went in there and we found xyz? They`re not telling you what they found from the vehicle that they tested that belonged to the Powells?
COX: No. I -- they`ve told me that they have some of the results back. They have looked at things. But they won`t -- they don`t share the details with me. It`s part of their investigation, ongoing investigation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How frustrating is that for you?
COX: It`s very frustrating. While I have confidence that they`re doing everything they can, it`s just difficult to be on the outside not knowing -- having to trust that they`re getting closer. And I do believe they`re following up on things. But it`s just very frustrating not to know exactly where things are.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my big issue tonight. It`s an old saying but does it apply in this case, no body, no crime? Susan`s husband has not been charged with anything but he`s been repeatedly questioned by cops and he is considered a person of interest because he was the last person to see his wife alive and his midnight camping trip certainly raises suspicions of Susan`s family.
Listen to this.
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POWELL: Any help to try to find her would be appreciated. So we`d really -- that`s all. We just -- she`s somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know there quite a huge effort out in the west desert looking for any sign of her. Is that where you were camping?
POWELL: I just have to go get my boys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susan`s family says she would never let her kids go camping in the middle of the night on a Sunday night, much less walk out on them for good.
Chuck, what about Susan`s husband, Josh, failing to show up for work the next day after this camping trip on Monday, claiming he missed work because he got confused about what day it was when he went camping in the freezing temperature late Sunday night with his two young sons? What do you make of that?
COX: I don`t believe he miscounted the day. I don`t know what the real reason is why he came up with that story. We don`t believe that story. We are waiting for him to come forward and talk with the police. He actually hasn`t talked with the police since -- I believe it was like Wednesday after she went missing.
By the second interview they had and the third, he got an attorney and has been silent ever since. That`s very frustrating for us.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And apparently he`s left the state.
COX: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s left the state and gone to live with his dad in Washington State.
I`ve got to ask Rod Wheeler. What should cops do? They have searched and searched and searched for a body, haven`t found one. Obviously they consider the husband a person of interest. By the way, we invite Josh on the show if he wants to tell his side of the story. We want to be fair. We did try to reach him and couldn`t. What should cops do now?
ROD WHEELER, FORMER D.C. HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Well, you know, Jane, I can tell you exactly what the cops are doing now. And first of all, you know, my condolences go out to the gentlemen that -- on the panel with me here but I can tell you that the police are tight-lipped for a reason. And the reason that the cops are tight-lipped Jane is because they have not gotten much cooperation at all from Josh, who is the husband. That`s not unusual when a husband is involved in his wife`s missing. Ok.
So the fact that the cops have not said anything indicates to me that they are still focused on this guy, Josh. But not only that, Jane, they`re also focused on other people in the family. They`re trying to find out exactly what happened.
Now, there is some direct evidence, some physical evidence as you know -- I think you indicated earlier that they did find at the residence that they cannot account for. And that is bloodstains in the home in which Josh had fans trying to dry this bloodstain up in the house. You know that`s very interesting and that`s --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it was a wet -- it was a wet mark. It was a wet mark. And that`s precisely what I`d like to know is when they tested that wet mark did they find blood.
I don`t think we`ve gotten the answer to that, have we, Chuck?
WHEELER: No. But, you know Jane, they probably won`t say that yet because they`re waiting until they can get the opportunity to interrogate this guy Josh again to see how much more he knows about the actual crime scene.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, Chuck, I just want to say, you know, we are going to stay on top of this case. We`re not going to let it go. We want you to come back real soon. And any time you have a tidbit, you call us because we`re going to put it on the air right here on ISSUES.
Thank you sir.
COX: Thank you. We did want -- the reason we put up the bulletin boards and got them out there or the billboards is so that people will remember her face. If there`s a chance that she is released some point or gets free, we want her to be recognized. So we want people to be on the lookout for her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you, sir. We`re going to make sure that happens.
Oil has been spilling into the Gulf for almost two months. Now BP wants to try another solution. We`ve known about this solution for a long time. Why did they wait so long? Look at these poor animals?
And it`s the two-year anniversary of little Caylee Anthony`s disappearance. And what her grandparents, Cindy and George, are saying now will shock you. And I`m taking your calls on the Casey Anthony case, 1- 877-JVM SAYS.
Also Father`s Day is this Sunday and we`re saluting papas. Jacquelyn Buckley says her dad Richard is an absolute rock of support for the family. He helped Jacquelyn`s mom beat cancer 20 years ago and now he`s trying to help his daughter do the same. Jacquelyn says her dad is with her every day, every step of the way in the hospital.
Happy Father`s Day Richard, from all of us here at ISSUES; we wish you and your family the very, very best and good health.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: George and Cindy speak out on the two-year anniversary of little Caylee`s disappearance. That`s next.
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight. President Obama says we`re going to get through this oil spill. But the many animals that have died aren`t getting through this oil spill. They`re dead.
Now some scientists are saying it`s no use rescuing the other animals because taking the oil off is more traumatic than letting them drown in oil. Uh-uh, I don`t buy it. Let`s save as many as we can.
We`ve all heard about the corruption in the Interior Department that oversees oil rigs. We`ve all heard how BP allegedly cut corners on crucial equipment just to save a couple of bucks.
Now BP is finally turning to actor Kevin Costner, who has a machine that removes oil from water. He offered this technology years ago, nobody wanted it. They laughed at him. Why didn`t the U.S. government have these machines at the ready in case of a disaster like this?
You want to know why? Because our see no evil, hear no evil bureaucrats are toadies of big business. They are controlled by the very corporations they are supposed to regulate.
Now that`s a crime. And that`s tonight "Top of the Block."
It has been two years of pure hell for George and Cindy Anthony. Two years since the day they last saw their baby granddaughter Caylee alive. Adding to their despair, the fact that their own daughter could face the death penalty for allegedly murdering Caylee if she`s convicted.
Now Cindy has raised eyebrows with a shocking claim about her bone-chilling 911 call. I`m sure you remember this. Cindy called cops a month after Caylee`s disappearance and she said, quote, "It smells like there`s been a body in the damn car", end quote.
Listen carefully to this clip from ABC`s "Good Morning America." This is new.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn`t mean that? You just wanted the police out faster?
CINDY ANTHONY, DAUGHTER CHARGED WITH MURDER: Yes. Because there was never -- I never thought that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have compassion for Cindy for what she`s been through. But, please, you cannot put that genie back in the bottle. Meantime, the Anthony`s were consistent when it came to one thing. Cindy said she still believes Casey is innocent.
What do you think? I`m taking your calls. 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to my fantastic panel: Stacy Kaiser, psychotherapist and author of "How to be a Grownup", very apropos in the story. And another Stacey, Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor and author of "My Privates are Private". And we are also going to hear from Drew Petromo with WDDO Radio in Orlando in a bit.
I`ve got to ask you, Stacey Honowitz, is it going to work for Cindy to say never mind when it comes to her 911 call that is now world famous where she said it smells basically like there`s a dead body in Casey`s car?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, of course not. We heard her to start to back pedal right after the fact when the investigation began. She started back pedaling. In Florida under a hearsay rule that`s called an excited utterance.
And the judge has the option of letting something like that in for the jury to hear because that`s the first time it`s uttered. It`s in the heat -- not heat of passion but it`s at or near the time of the event and it`s a truthful statement that of what the person thought at the time.
And certainly she was panic-stricken enough, she had been through enough and she called the cops and she sincerely believed what she was saying. It smells like a dead body. Especially knowing what her background was as a nurse. She would know what that smell was like.
So like you said it`s trying to put the genie back in the bottle and it`s not going to fly in front of the jury.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And George also said it. He said he went into the car and he used to be a cop and oh, we all know that smell.
In April the state attorney`s office released letters written by one of Casey`s fellow inmates. The inmate claimed Casey said that her own brother Lee had sexually abused her by feeling her breasts.
Casey also reportedly wrote that she thinks, quote, "thinks her father did it to her when she was younger" end quote. The Anthony`s reacted to that on "Good Morning America". Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. ANTHONY: I read the letters. I read them all. It was very hurtful for George.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: It still is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It didn`t change how you feel about Casey?
G. ANTHONY: I`m still going to be there for my daughter. That`s unconditional love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. There`s a guy, George, who was actually considering suicide at one point.
Stacy Kaiser, you are the psychotherapist. How would you characterize this family`s reaction to these shocking claims about sexual abuse happening in their household by Casey?
STACY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I have to tell you, I thought it was strangely unemotional, which is really typical for people who are going through so many traumatic experiences. It was like they were very shut down. They -- I wanted to either see him showing remorse if he was the guy that did that or I wanted to see him showing more outrage at how could we have supported our daughter and stood by her and had her do this if it didn`t really happen.
HONOWITZ: Possibly they were going to --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, there -- go ahead.
HONOWITZ: No. What I was going to say was I don`t think he`s ever going to sit on national television and admit to something like sexual abuse. You`re never going to hear that. I don`t think -- I`m not saying that he wasn`t unemotional. He was.
But I really don`t think he was in a situation to do it either way. And he`s got to protect her and seem like he backs her. So he`s not going to be so outraged how could you make a statement and he`s not going to sit there and say I agree with her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and remember these people have be co-signing Casey Anthony`s lies for years and they have been co-dependent on their daughter and they basically put up with anything. And, you know, it`s quite possible, probably -- I would say in my personal opinion that she`s lying again. And that she`s just throwing her family under the bus.
Linda, Florida, your question or thought.
LINDA, FLORIDA (via telephone): Actually, I first want to say, Jane, I love watching you and I also want to say that I have total empathy for the grandparents. They`ve loved their granddaughter and possibly they are about to lose their daughter.
But what we`ve seen so far here in Florida, she`s used up all of her money with the lawyers that she`s had so far. If she`s indigent, it`s time that they handed her the public defender. Florida doesn`t need the burden of paying for the attorneys that she has now. She needs to be --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you.
Rod Wheeler, though, can they do that -- thank you caller. But can they do that, you know
She says she`s indigent but she has a dream team of attorneys that a millionaire would envy.
WHEELER: Right. Well, yes, they can do that. She`s obviously entitled to legal representation. But Jane, let me just go back just a quick second here. Regardless of what the parents said on "Good Morning America" --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rod, ok. Hold on. On the other side the break hang in there. We`re going to have a lot more on this young lady you`re looking at.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love it. We need some water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: George Anthony hosing down hecklers in front of his home in September of 2008. They last saw their granddaughter Caylee alive two years ago this week. George and Cindy Anthony talked to ABC News about their two-year ordeal. And they had a jab at cops.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. ANTHONY: I think they were frustrated with Casey because I was told by the investigators the first night that they took her that they were going to break her in 24 to 48 hours and they didn`t break her and they haven`t broken her because there`s nothing to break. I can understand their suspicion. There`s still nothing that proves that Casey did anything except lie to them about her work and things like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here is my big issue. Were Cindy and George in complete denial? Got to go back to you, Rod Wheeler former D.C. homicide detective. It doesn`t seem to be the way law enforcement works that if you lie to them about having a job they`re going to charge you with murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you know, it`s unfortunate that Cindy feels that way. But I can understand that, her being the mother. But look at the facts. And that`s what I was going to say before the break. When you look at the affidavit in support of the arrest warrant which I have a copy of and you look at all the facts the cops have laid out -- and I`m talking direct evidence, not circumstantial. There is some circumstances as well. But there`s pages, Jane, and pages of direct evidence including the fact that the rug that the baby was wrapped in when she was found in the park, they actually have fibers from that same rug that was found in the truck of the vehicle that belonged to George.
Now, how they explained that, I don`t know. But let me tell you what, that`s direct evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know what, during this morning`s interview, the Anthonys said the reason they haven`t gone to see Casey in jail is because the videos are released to the public. This is a famous one. Of course we`ve all seen this many times but it`s worth another look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, ACCUSED OF KILLING DAUGHTER: I was in Lake County two days ago.
CINDY ANTHONY: Ok. Is there anything there?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom. I`m sorry. I love you guys. I miss you.
CINDY ANTHONY: All right, sweetheart. Here`s dad. Hold on.
CASEY ANTHONY: No, I`m going to hang up and just walk away right now because --
CINDY ANTHONY: Please don`t.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m frustrated and I`m angry and I don`t want to be angry. This is the first time I have truly, truly been angry this entire time. But I`m so beyond frustrated with all of this that I can`t even swallow right now. It hurts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, you`re a Florida prosecutor. Are these videos really incriminating? Did George and Cindy make a wise move to stop visiting their daughter because they didn`t want these tapes released to the public?
HONOWITZ: I think they`re following the direction of their lawyer, quite frankly. I think the lawyer probably told them the smartest move is to stay away because really she is somebody who looks like she`s going to explode at any moment. So who knows if something in the conversation would cause her to snap to maybe say something incriminating.
So I think it is at the direction of the lawyer. They said it`s wise to stay away. It doesn`t look like that they`re not being compassionate toward their daughter because that`s the excuse they`re going to use. We didn`t go --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. Got to leave it right there but we all do have compassion for Cindy and George. They didn`t do anything. They are victims as well.
You`re watching ISSUES on HLN.
END
