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Nancy Grace
Evidence Photos Show Bloody Clothes in Flores Murder
Aired June 17, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police refuse to make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot even after he describes Natalee`s death and admits he hid the body.
Tonight, live, Peru, Van Der Sloot kills again. Another young girl meets him at a resort casino, found dead hours later, brutally beaten, bloody, her neck broken, partially clothed there on the floor of Van Der Sloot`s hotel. Van Der Sloot goes on the run to Chile. After a massive manhunt, Van Der Sloot captured.
Spine-chilling video of the killer with 21-year-old Stephany just before she`s found dead. Bloody clothes from the murder found with Van Der Sloot on the run, just as U.S. feds bust him on a quarter-million-dollar scam to sell the location of Natalee`s body. Van Der Sloot confesses to Stephany`s murder, and after beating her to a pulp and breaking her neck, Van Der Sloot kicks back with a cup of coffee and Danish just feet from Stephany`s dead body. We obtain Van Der Sloot`s confession verbatim.
He`s charged with murder one, booked into one of Peru`s most notorious jails. Police seize Van Der Sloot`s laptop after he claims a FaceBook death threat over Natalee Holloway popped up, triggering that fatal argument between him and his last victim. That evidence set to torpedo the defense and show there was no argument, that he`s just a cold-blooded killing machine who murdered Stephany for money.
Bombshell tonight. After weeks of trying, we get inside Castro Castro, one of the most notorious prisons in Peru, and tonight, inside Van Der Sloot`s private cell, the jail so dangerous, officials bar us from seeing the rest of the prison. We talk one on one with inmates behind bars with Van Der Sloot and learn Van Der Sloot has a new nickname behind bars, "psychopath." His new best friend, a Colombian assassin, alias "the clown."
As Van Der Sloot`s mother and brothers remain in hiding tonight, we learn new forensic evidence positively places Van Der Sloot in that hotel room with dead, bloody Stephany Tatiana. Tonight, Van Der Sloot still angling for extradition home to Aruba. But what about the dead Peruvian girl and two other missing girls from casinos in Bogota possibly linked to Van Der Sloot? What, let him go home to Aruba for a home-cooked meal and a get out of jail card free out of jail? No!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Getting really close to Castro Castro. This is a dirt road. It`s pretty bumpy. This is where people live. And you can see that the entrance right up there (INAUDIBLE). It`s right there at the prison. Let`s go.
This is the cell of Joran Van Der Sloot. They just took him out so we could come in here. This where he lives, day in and day out, at Castro Castro. This is a very specialized high-profile unit, protective custody. There`s only 10 cells in here, only two occupied.
This is Joran Van Der Sloot`s. this is his clothes. Remember you, saw him on television in these clothes? He still has them here. Here are his pants. And over here, here`s his bed. It`s a mattress. Here are all of his personal belongings. You can see a lot of books, mostly religious books. I see toothpaste. I see the Bible right there. I see books that are written in Dutch. And then over here, he has his own bathroom. As we`ve heard, it is a hole in the ground. He`s got running water. He`s got a sink. But this is where Joran Van Der Sloot -- this is where Joran Van Der Sloot stays. And when we leave, they`re going to bring him back right here as he awaits trial here at Castro Castro.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. After weeks of trying, we go inside Castro Castro prison, the most notorious prison in Peru, and inside Joran Van Der Sloot`s private cell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Here we are. We`re walking right into Castro Castro now. And you see dogs running free. You see people in prison regalia. You see men in suits. Most likely (INAUDIBLE) the attorneys. We`ve never been to any place like this before. It`s one the most notorious prisons in the world, they say, but we`ve been invited here.
We`re in one of the main prison yards right now. There`s 190 offenders here. We never thought we would get so close to the actual prisoners here at Castro Castro, but we have. We`re talking with them. As you can see, there`s some that are in their cells right on the upper floors. You can see their hands as they`re coming out. Those are the cells that they sleep in, that some of them obviously live in.
We`re going right now into the protective custody unit where Joran Van Der Sloot has been held. They just took him out. We just saw him a minute ago. They transferred him to another area while we come in here. But this is solitary confinement, where the only most high-profile defendants and convicted felons are housed.
Here are all of his personal belongings. You can see a lot of books. I see religious books. I see toothpaste. I see the Bible right there. I see books that are written in Dutch. And then over here, he has his own bathroom. As we`ve heard, it is a hole in the ground. He`s got running water. He`s got a sink.
But this is where Joran Van Der Sloot -- this is where Joran Van Der Sloot stays, and when we leave, they`re going to bring him back right here as he awaits trial here in Castro Castro.
Getting really close to Castro Castro. This is a dirt road. It`s pretty bumpy. This is where people live. And you`re going to see that the entrance right up there -- see, this is bumpy -- is right there at the prison. Let`s go.
You know, they talk about Castro Castro and it`s a maximum security prison. This is the entrance right here. Right here. Some of the most violent felons in Peru are housed right beyond that (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jean Casarez. She is joining us tonight from Lima, Peru, there at the Justice Ministry. Jean, thank you for being with us. You were inside Castro Castro today almost the entire day. You`ve been in Van Der Sloot`s cell. Also, you talked with other inmates that know Van Der Sloot behind bars. What did you learn?
CASAREZ: Nancy, I didn`t know what to expect when I went to Castro Castro today. We knew we`d been invited for exclusive access. When we finally got in there, I found myself on the ground level with basically a general population of inmates all around me. I could talk to anybody I wanted to, interview anybody I wanted to. They did not let us go on the upper cell blocks where there are five to six inmates. I could look. I could see their feet hanging out, their arms hanging out. I couldn`t talk to them or go there, they said, because of security reasons.
But I talked to everybody I could and I wanted to know, What do you think about Joran Van Der Sloot being here? And you know the response I got? The response was, He`s one of us. We welcome him. And prison officials told me that in time, they want to take Joran Van Der Sloot into general population, and it may be sooner than later.
GRACE: With us, Jean Casarez, live at the Justice Ministry. Jean, you spoke with inmates that are behind bars with him. I understand his new nickname is "the psychopath"?
CASAREZ: They didn`t tell me that. What they told me was that -- now, remember, the director of the prison is standing there, the managing director. There are officials all over as I`m talking to them. And they said, We welcome him here. He has nothing to fear here. He`s one of us. But I also felt that maybe they put themselves in Joran Van Der Sloot`s position because they once were arrested. They once were taken to the prison. So maybe there is a camaraderie there, instead of a hateful vengeance.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Geri in Florida. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show, and I love you and your twins!
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But my question was -- and it was just answered, I believe. I was going to ask if, you know, once he is tried and convicted, if they would put him in general population because, you know, of his life, you know, being threatened, or you know, he could be murdered. As she just said, you know, if they think of him as, like, a pal, then I don`t think that would be a concern, but that was my question.
GRACE: Out to Jean Casarez. What about him going into general population?
CASAREZ: I think it might happen sooner than later. I think it will happen before a trial, before he`s convicted. And to Geri, you know, what`s interesting is they wear street clothes in there. They`ve got their shirts on. They`ve got pants. They`ve got pockets. So I posed the question to the director, What about weapons? Isn`t there a concern for weapons? He said, No. We have no issue with that at all.
GRACE: Let`s go to Michael Griffith, international criminal defense attorney joining us from New York. He has tried many cases and handled many cases there in Peru. Michael Griffith, just because a couple of inmates told Jean Casarez, Oh, he`s one of us now, we welcome him -- BS! One of his best friends is a Colombian assassin nicknamed "the clown," all right? You could pay that guy 50 bucks, he`d slit Joran Van Der Sloot`s neck in a heartbeat!
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY: Nancy, not only is that true, but you know, the prison may be giving him a false sense of security. You know, when the Red Cross went into the camps in World War II, into the concentration camps, with the Gestapo, the Jewish prisoners said that they were being treated properly. But I`ll tell you something, because they were afraid.
But in this particular prison, he`s in with the so-called "clown." And you know, Nancy, the prisoners don`t know the difference between the Colombian and a Dutch accent. He doesn`t know the difference between a Peruvian and a Colombian accent. The guy could be an undercover agent for the Peruvian police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: What do you eat normally?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, we call it (INAUDIBLE) here. It`s a meal we get. It`s good. You can walk around and get all -- you know, all this stuff, you know? (INAUDIBLE) we need to get out of here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: We`re getting really close to Castro Castro. This is a dirt road. It`s pretty bumpy. This is where people live. Let`s go.
This is just like "The Wizard of Oz," you remember, where she gets to the great wizard and she`s knocking and he opens that little hole? (SPEAKING IN SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The jail conditions in Peru`s Miguel Castro Castro prison have been described as the worst in the world.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... violent felons...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... (INAUDIBLE) murdered...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... overcrowding...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty percent of the population have AIDS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... old-fashioned toilets without running water, seldom an opportunity to shower. But Van Der Sloot not in the worst of the worst right now.
CASAREZ: He`s in solitary confinement.
GRACE: Prisoners do not wear uniforms. In Peru, they say that denigrates the individuality of the prisoner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re very poor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inmates might be willing to murder a fellow prisoner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once he gets into population, he`s got a problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calling live. Standing by there in Lima outside the Justice Ministry, "In Session`s" legal correspondent, Jean Casarez. Jean, I want to hear more about the security at the jail and about Joran Van Der Sloot`s private jail cell.
CASAREZ: Well, first of all, let me tell you about the security at the jail itself. There were 50 guards were on duty today. There`s 150 total. But Nancy, not one of them has a knife, a gun, a baton. Nothing. Security walks around with their uniforms on, but they have nothing on them, if a riot would break out or anything like that.
The security with Joran Van Der Sloot -- he`s near the entrance to the prison. It`s one wing. You walk sort of down a hallway. All the individual cells are on the right-hand side. His is among them. We didn`t see the Colombian hit man.
Now, the cell next to him seemed to have the blinds drawn, I should say, so maybe that`s where he is. But it was very quiet, very solitary. But the cell, you know what, Nancy? It was pretty nice. It really was. The hole in the floor for the toilet, just as you said, was there, but the mattress was pretty cushy, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, we`re looking at the video you shot just a couple of hours ago, and it looks like a college dorm room. It actually looks nicer than the dorm room I had in college. It looks much nicer.
Very quickly, I want to go out to Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter, Radaronline.com. Alexis, I don`t know how you guys did it, but you`ve managed to get ahold of photos of the bloody shirt Joran Van Der Sloot had with him when cops caught him on the run. Can you tell us how you got these photos? Let`s see them, Liz.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Nancy, we actually have some very intrepid reporters on the ground there, and they were able to get these photos from source. And we`ve learned that, especially the photo with Joran`s shirt with the blood, officials have said that this blood does match Stephany`s blood. It`s a clear connection between him and the murder.
GRACE: You are seeing shots exclusive to Radaronline.com. With us, Alexis Tereszcuk. This is a torpedo to the defense! Liz -- wait! Hold on. Hold on. Alexis, we`ve got a photo of an array of items. What are those other items?
TERESZCUK: They`re -- they`re different photos, one of Stephany`s items and Joran`s items. Stephany`s are -- you know, it`s her cell phone. It`s two lighters. It`s a pen, just objects that anybody would have in their purse with them and...
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on!
TERESZCUK: ... nothing of any value...
GRACE: Let`s see the striped shirt Joran Van Der Sloot was wearing when he came out of the hotel room. I see other items that apparently were taken off of him when police apprehended him. Liz, if you can back it up? I saw a sleeveless black T-shirt. We`re going to get that in a second. There it is. It`s a Nike shirt and some Jeans. What are they, Alexis?
TERESZCUK: Those are Stephany`s clothes. They were not found on her, but they have blood on them. There`s also the photo of the tennis shoes that have blood on them, as well. None of these clothes were on Stephany, which means that the blood went everywhere in the room because of this violent, violent murder.
GRACE: So you`re telling me there were blood on the shoes, as well? Those are Stephany`s shoes?
TERESZCUK: Yes. Those are Stephany`s shoes. That`s her Nike shirt. It`s her jeans. And they all have blood on them, but she wasn`t wearing any of these clothes. So it just -- it meant that the blood went everywhere in the room. It was a horrifically violent crime and it was just -- there was evidence everywhere. This is -- officials have told us this is her blood, and it`s everywhere.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Do you know who he is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I know who he is because I read it in the paper. And I know who he is. He`s been on the news. I -- yes. I didn`t get to see him because he`s in the protection.
CASAREZ: What`s the talk about him around here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing. He`s one of us. Whatever his crime was, it`s nothing to do with us. We got people that are here that did the same things. He shouldn`t be worried about nothing. It`s (INAUDIBLE) for him as for us. We don`t have nothing against him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live tonight in Lima, Peru, Jean Casarez just coming out of Castro Castro jail. We were just seeing shots, video, actually, of a bloody shirt, bloody shoes, clothing belonging to his latest murder victim, Stephany Tatiana.
With us, Alexis Tereszcuk from Radaronline.com. You were describing the blood over all of these items. Explain.
TERESZCUK: Well, the clothes -- the jeans and the tennis shoes, when her body was found, she wasn`t wearing them. They weren`t near her. But the blood managed to splatter on them. It was on her shirt. It was everywhere in the room, from the photos that we have. It wasn`t just, you know, on her body. So this was an incredibly violent crime. It wasn`t just an elbow to the face and then suffocation. There was blood splattered everywhere.
And that`s why we showed thee pictures, why we published them, because we want people to see how violent this crime was. It wasn`t just a, Oh, I got mad at her and did a -- you know, a quick murder. It was incredibly violent.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner Broward County, author of "When Doctors Kill," his newest book. Dr. Perper, thank you for being with us.
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, BROWARD CTY CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: You`re welcome.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, the way that Joran Van Der Sloot lied in his police confession really airbrushed what happened, but now you are hearing about blood all over the room and a broken neck, her eye pulled out of the socket and hanging down from the socket. You`re the expert. What happened in that hotel room?
PERPER: Well, obviously, what happened was a very vicious attack that -- in order to break the neck, you have to twist the head very powerfully. To have so much blood, you have to cause a lot of bleeding. And to spray it on objects which are not on the victims indicates, again, that there was a profusion of blood, and it can be seen on the clothing, on the jacket -- the jacket of the individual, of the murderer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": We`re going deeper into Castro Castro now. We`ve gone through our body scan, our fingerprints, our photographs.
We`re getting closer now to where the prisoners are. I think I see prisoners right behind here. This looks like a recreational area where they come out to exercise. I believe this is the general population area, and you see a lot of people in street clothes.
I think we`re right in here with the prisoners right now. Look how close we are. We`ve got guards all around us, though. But we are in Castro Castro. General population. The recreational area.
So they allow them to recreate and come out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s gym in there.
CASAREZ: There`s a gym in there. There`s the weight machine. That`s just what we heard. That they were able to do exercises in the gymnasium. That`s part of the rehabilitation.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live.
Jean Casarez, I understand that Joran Van Der Sloot is not getting the same treatment as other people behind bars?
CASAREZ: No. He`s getting very preferential treatment. We confirmed with them today that he is still eating the meals of the jailhouse official because they`re so concerned that his food could get poisoned.
So look at that fact, Nancy, and compare it to what the prisoner said that he`s one of them and they`re not concerned at all, and welcome him in with them. So they definitely have concerns. They know his life is on their watch. So they`re going to take every precaution.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Michael Griffith, international lawyer who has been in Peru and tried many cases there. Eleanor Odom, felony prosecutor and death penalty prosecutors. Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Atlanta. Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta.
First to you, Michael Griffith, why is he getting preferential treatment behind bars?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think that, you know, Lurigancho, where he`s going to eventually wind up, is much worse than this. I think it`s a show prison.
And, Nancy, you know, you said that this -- this room was better than your college dormitory. There`s one thing he doesn`t have. He doesn`t have toilet paper. So just think about what the bible might have to be used for. I mean, this is a tough place.
GRACE: OK. You know I don`t know if you have the same view that I have of the monitor.
Liz, please put it in full, the inside of his dorm room. OK? Take a look. He`s got a private room, a bed with a big, thick mattress. Look at that.
There are people all over America who have less than that. Look at those books, and of course, knowing Jean was coming, he conveniently laid out a bible. He`s got Pert shampoo. Look at that. He`s got condiments. He`s got amenities, Eleanor.
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: I know, Nancy, but I`m wondering if they`re keeping him safe until the trial and after that guilty conviction, things won`t be so cushy for him.
GRACE: To Renee Rockwell what do you make of his name behind bars? Psychopath.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Psychopath. Well, you know what, I don`t know if he made that up himself or if they were just talking about it. But, Nancy, let me say one thing about where he is now. He requested isolation and they accommodated him.
So let me agree with Mr. Griffith. This is a show prison. And I think that they`re trying to put on their best face for the world to see that the conditions are humane. I quite disagree that that`s the conditions for the rest of the guys in that block or in that prison.
GRIFFITH: Correct.
GRACE: To Peter Odom, you saw the evidence that Alexis Tereszcuk show with Radaronline has obtained photos of it anyway. The blood was so badly spewed across the room, nothing in the whole room was left clean.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s unclear at this point, Nancy, whether the -- the blood spewed out on the items or whether the items were brought to the source of the blood to clean it up, and the scientists that test this evidence --
GRACE: Oh, really?
P. ODOM: -- will be able to tell the difference. Absolutely.
GRACE: OK, Peter, take a look at this.
P. ODOM: Notice, Nancy --
GRACE: If that shirt had been used -- I was speaking. That shirt had been used to mop up the floor? That`s not the blood spat -- that`s not the blood stain that you would see.
P. ODOM: Well, I`m no --
GRACE: Come on. Common sense.
P. ODOM: I`m no scientist, Nancy, but I`m seeing blood on the back of that shirt.
GRACE: That wasn`t the back of the shirt. That was the front of the shirt.
P. ODOM: There`s blood on the back of that -- right. But if you look --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You don`t have to be a scientist to know the front from the back.
P. ODOM: -- you can see through the collar to the back of the shirt. You can see the back of the shirt right in that photo and there`s blood all over it, and I doubt that he got blood on the back of the shirt from backing up to her. The shirt was of his body and he used it to mop up.
GRACE: To Alexis Tereszcuk, you stated that blood got all over everything, all over the room, all over the clothes, the shoes, from the murder. I did not hear you say that the evidence proves these items were used to mop up the scene?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: No. In fact, what we understand from the reports is that Joran said that he suffocated her with the shirt. So he took the shirt off of himself and held it over her.
Her face was beaten to a bloody pulp. As you even said, you know, her eye was hanging out of its socket. There was lots and lots of blood so that that shirt was held over her bloody face.
That`s why it`s on the back. That was the larger part of the shirt that was held over her face.
GRACE: Please put Odom up. Please put Odom up. Please continue, Alexis.
TERESZCUK: And then the other clothes were around the room. They have splatters of blood on them. They don`t -- they don`t have longer streaks of blood as if you were wiping something. They have splatters of blood and it looks like from the evidence, and from what we`ve spoken to the officials that it -- as I just said, it`s splattered around there.
It was, you know, left her body very violently and landed on these clothes that she wasn`t wearing. It wasn`t as if it dripped down her body or that he used the front of the tennis shoes to clean anything up. There were just, you know, parts of blood.
GRACE: OK. You know what, Peter Odom, I got to you this much. You know how to keep a poker face.
To you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers". Now that you`ve heard the degree of violence surrounding the crime scene, what do you make of it?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, it makes me think of the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath. There is a big difference and I see it in this bloody crime scene.
For the sociopath, the MO is to con people out of sex and money. You can see this with Joran. His parasitic lifestyle, nomadic, hanging out at casinos, probably gravitating towards people who had money and could offer him sex.
But for the psychopath, the MO is the infliction of cruelty for the purpose of sexual excitement. It is the psychopath who tortures animals in their youth. It is the psychopath who has inner emptiness and because of that the only way they can manage that is to inflict severe cruelty.
It is the psychopath who becomes the serial killer and I -- I didn`t want to believe it until just now, as I was watching this bloody crime scene, but I`m really beginning to believe he`s a psychopath, not a sociopath.
GRACE: To Sheryl McCollum, crime scene analyst, director of the Cold Case Squad, Pine Lake P.D., weigh in.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. OF COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Nancy, the first thing that stuck out to me was this photo. That shows an in as the marked evidence. That tells us there`s at least 15 pieces of evidence that they`ve marked in a room as small as a hotel room.
That is so significant to me that there`s that much. And what they`re going to do with the shirt, they`re going to take this and they`re going to say what is high velocity, what is splatter, what is a transfer? So if his hands were bloody from beating her they`re going to know his hand print is a transfer print from where he was just beating her and that being, you know, projected on to his shirt.
So this is very telling to me, that not only was this brutal, but they`re going to know how many times he hit her if there`s cast ball patterns on the wall, where he`d cleaned up in the bathroom. This is a tremendous scene to me.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez standing by at the Justice Ministry, Lima, Peru.
Jean, you actually saw Joran Van Der Sloot today briefly. What happened?
CASAREZ: Well, we were waiting to go into his cell and they had to move him out of his cell. So we were standing there and he walks out of his cell block area into an office building. And first thing I noticed, he`s really tall.
I mean he`s tall and he`s big. Now he`s from the Netherlands. And I understand that a lot of tall men are in the Netherlands, but he looked especially big. And he had an orange shirt on and it looked very brand new.
GRACE: Everyone, quickly as we go to break we are taking your call, but I want to say hello to tonight`s Facebook crime fighters. New Hampshire friend Sandy and her 1-year-old grandson Joshua, Alabama friend Mandy, mother of 4-year-old Dylan, and upstate New York friend Vicki, watches ever night with her 10-year-old, also named Dylan.
Facebook crime fighters, thank you.
Submit your photos. Go to CNN.com/NancyGrace and click on Facebook.
And tonight, Ella Stokes, Jacksonville, Florida, at 100-plus. She inspired us. Born on a farm, Macon, Georgia, she walked three miles every day on a clay road to elementary school.
She met her husband W.H. Stokes at a little Methodist church. He was a lifelong railroad man and together they grew a family of three sons. A dedicated member to the profoundly religious based group, the Eastern Star.
That`s a beautiful little ceramic cat she made me when I married and had twins. Her joy, providing a loving home for her family and, oh, what a cook.
Good night, friend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: This is such a combination of lifestyles here. You`ve got right across the street from Castro Castro where people live. They work. They talk. The children walk around.
Here we are, we`re walking right into Castro Castro now and you see dogs running free. You see people imprisoned. You see men in suits, most likely, (speaking in foreign language), the attorneys.
You see the palm trees. There`s a man in a suit right there. I bet that he is an attorney coming to visit his client.
We`ve never been to any place like this before. It`s one of the most notorious prisons in the world, they say, but we`ve been invited here.
It`s a cold, winter morning here in Lima.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This is now a first-degree murder case.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, MURDER SUSPECT (Through translator): I said to the taxi driver, I committed a homicide. I killed a person, and I want to get out of Peru.
GRIFFITH: Castro, Castro --
CASAREZ: It`s one of the highest security prisons in Peru. Very violent felons are there.
GRIFFITH: He`s only in protective custody for the moment.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At Lurigancho prison in Peru, prisoners are forced to live with violence, hunger and filth. Prisoners were left to their own devices in Santa Martha, but in Lurigancho, the inmates are in charge.
Lurigancho is one of South America`s toughest prisons. Conditions are appalling. Built for 3,600, it now houses nearly 10,000.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Andrea in Pennsylvania. Hi, dear.
ANDREA, PENNSYLVANIA: Hello, Nancy. I love your show, and I had two quick questions for you. The first one is, if his friend on your show said he was such a good friend, why hasn`t anybody come out to visit him yet?
And my second one is, are they going to be able to keep him safe if he does get out of solitary confinement long enough for the Aruban authorities to question him and find out what happened to Natalee Holloway?
GRACE: Good question. Let`s go to Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer standing by there in Aruba.
Rupa, what do you know?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, we know that his mother would like to visit him but she is still here on the island and she is figuring out actually how to get there. But right now she`s in Aruba organizing defense counsel.
GRACE: Whoa. Wait. Stop.
MIKKILINENI: Organizing fund raising so she can pay for those attorneys.
GRACE: Stop. She`s figuring out how to get to Aruba? Well, you pick up the phone and you dial an airline that has an 800 number, and you book a ticket. Not that hard to "figure out." So that`s not the whole story. But go ahead.
MIKKILINENI: Oh, Nancy, there is more. This is a single mother. She`s got two younger children. Joran Van Der Sloot has two brothers who she is still taking care of here in Aruba. And she`s also -- bear in mind that the family is basically lost tremendous amounts of their money from the prior defense counsel, from five years ago, when they were spending money on -- on defending Joran Van Der Sloot.
He had a couple of attorneys back then. So the bottom line, this is a single mom. Her husband passed away in February. She is struggling. So therein lies the delay with her visiting.
Now regarding friends of his, I don`t think that any of his friends still talk to him. His old friends from back when he was in high school and he was living here in Aruba. And so only current friends or newer friends had been speaking with him.
GRACE: Well, I guess those current friends would be the Colombian assassin behind bars, and all of the great guys and girls he met at casinos between 2:00 and 6:00 a.m. in the morning, all across South America.
To Clark Goldband, there at the telestrator. Clark, break down the jail cell for us. What do you observe after taking a closer look at the cell?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: And, Nancy, we have a freeze frame of the cell right behind me. As you can see, if we enter the cell, this would be the area where the bars are.
Now we clear that off the screen. There is a mattress. In fact, Jean has said in her reporting, it`s about four to five inches. On top here, this blanket is local textiles from the area.
And we cleared the screen to the back of this cell. You can see a sink. Van Der Sloot does have running water, in fact. Also, however, he does not have a toilet and you can see behind me he does have shampoo and toothpaste. Things a lot of inmates there certainly don`t have.
GRACE: Back to the lines, Pat in New York. Hi, Pat.
PAT, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
PAT: My question is, is that being they found Rufi wrappers in the car and on the shots of Stephany in the casino, she was very animated but she looked like a zombie going into Joran`s room.
Is it possible that rather than seeing something on his computer about Natalee that more likely she woke up while Joran was trying to sexually assault her and that`s why there was such a violent crime?
GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s go to Sheryl McCollum, who is a cold case analyst. What about it, Sheryl?
MCCOLLUM: It`s a possibility. But let me tell you what they`re going to do. They`re going to take that computer and they`re going to look at real time. Did they play video poker? They`ll know from the history of the site.
They will also check the e-mail. Did he look it up or not? They will know in real time what happened the minute they went in that room, if the computer was involved or not. So it`s a great possibility.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, you were telling us about your observations of Joran Van Der Sloot, the judge`s son, who there in Peru they refer to ashes "The Foreigner" or the "Dutchman." It`s a far cry from the treatment he got behind bars in Aruba, as you will recall.
What did you observe?
CASAREZ: Well, what I observed was that -- first of all, he had two visitors today. I`ve got to tell you this. Right before we got here, they had come. He had a pastor that had flown in from the Netherlands to visit him.
And he was standing outside the cell block area right when we were coming in. Now he said he flew here to see over a hundred Dutch inmates that are here in Peru, but coincidentally he was right there to see Joran Van Der Sloot today.
He said he comes about twice a year. And the attorney that we have heard wants off the case, he was there to see Joran Van Der Sloot today.
GRACE: Well, it sounds like he`s not off the case.
Everyone, Jean is standing by there live in Peru. As we go to break, happy birthday to friend of the show, Toby. Mother of Angie and Charles, grandmother of 3-year-old Mia.
Happy birthday, Toby.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: This is another one of the pavilions. And as you can see, they wash their own clothes. They actually go to a laundry and wash their clothes here.
There seem to be so much freedom here because they`re out in the open. And we have so much freedom because we are right in the midst of them.
But the fact is the walls are very, very high here. There`s barbed wires. And you can really virtually just see the tips of the mountains above there.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Pat in New York. Hi, Pat. I think I`ve got Pat with me.
Let`s go to Judy in Indiana.
JUDY, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Yes.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
JUDY: First of all, I wanted to say I`m glad Peru is putting on a good show because we don`t want this monster, psycho monster, to get any kind of sympathy. And I have a concern that Aruba is going to be meeting with him in August.
Will U.S. officials be with him as well? Because we know if he gets back to Aruba, they probably have documents on political corruption and such. And he would get away with it just like he did with Natalee.
GRACE: Yes, you know what? Judy, Indiana, I`m concerned about him going home to -- home to Aruba. I`m concerned he will escape and he`ll never be seen again, if he makes it back to Aruba.
To Michael Griffith, international criminal defense attorney who has handled cases in Peru, wouldn`t he -- I don`t see Aruba ever doing anything, period. But I don`t think Peru`s going to let go of him until he does his time. And then when he come to the U.S.?
GRIFFITH: U.S. has got first shot because we have an extradition order against him.
Nancy, Aruba`s got no jurisdiction. It`s like American Samoa dealing with Russia, they`re not a country. The Netherlands are the ones who`ve got the jurisdiction. Not Peru, and the Peruvians -- not Aruba. And the Peruvians are putting up a show.
You don`t get toilet paper, you don`t get bibles, you don`t get shampoo in these prisons. This is a show thing. And we`re being duped. I`m telling you. I`ve been Peruvian prisons. This is a joke.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember, Army Sergeant 1st Class Todd Gibbs, 37, Lufkin, Texas, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved hunting, fishing, cooking out with friends. Favorite football team, Dallas Cowboys.
Leaves behind grieving mother Kay, sister Kim, brother Brett, widow Melissa, daughter Lea, son Zach.
Todd Gibbs, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but to you, especially thank you. And a special thank you to Kentucky friends, Norietta and Stanley, for these prayer bears they made for the twins.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
