Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Van Der Sloot Recants Murder Confession
Aired June 21, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police refuse to make a case against Joran Van Der Sloot even after he describes Natalee`s death, admitting he hid the body. Tonight, live, Peru, Van Der Sloot kills again. Another young girl meets him at a resort casino. Hours later, she`s found brutally beaten, bloody, her neck broken, partially clothed on Van Der Sloot`s hotel room floor.
After a massive manhunt, Van Der Sloot captured. Spine-chilling video of Van Der Sloot with 21-year-old Stephany just before she`s found dead. Bloody clothes from the murder found with Van Der Sloot on the run. Van Der Sloot confesses to Stephany`s murder, and after beating her to a pulp and breaking her neck, the judge`s son, Van Der Sloot, kicks back with a cup of coffee and Danish just inches from her dead body.
Van Der Sloot booked into Peru`s most notorious jail. After weeks of trying we go inside Castro Castro, the despised Peruvian prison, and inside Van Der Sloot`s private cell, the jail so dangerous, officials bar us from the rest of the prison. Van Der Sloot`s new nickname behind bars, "psychopath." New best friend, a Colombian assassin, alias "the clown."
Bombshell tonight. Van Der Sloot says, I was tricked. That`s right, judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot now claims -- everybody, I hope you`re sitting down -- that he was framed, framed by Peruvian police and forced into a murder confession.
In the last hours, Van Der Sloot completely dissing the judge, refusing to answer questions, claiming his confession should be thrown out. And tonight, Van Der Sloot`s mother breaks her silence, claiming he was on the verge of entering a psychiatric ward before leaving for Peru -- that`s right, lining up his defense, A, he was framed, B, he`s insane. And C, if he wasn`t framed and he`s not insane, he`s a pathological liar and his confession was a lie. OK. Mommy insisting Van Der Sloot is mentally ill and depressed.
Tonight Van Der Sloot in isolation, angling a free trip home to Aruba in exchange for the location of Natalee`s body. But wait a minute. What about the dead Peruvian girl and the two girls missing from Bogota casinos possibly linked to Van Der Sloot? What, go home to Aruba for a home-cooked meal and a "get out of jail free" card? No!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was really scared during the interrogation. I was confused and just wanted it to end."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot is fighting his murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His attorney says he`ll argue Van Der Sloot`s confession to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez was coerced!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was tricked. I`ll explain later how it all happened."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And his due process rights were violated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I only hit her once on top of the nose with my right elbow."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s already confessed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think she started to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They already have enough evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "So I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought about what I was doing, What am I going to do now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "In my blind panic, I signed everything but never knew what was written on them."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Van Der Sloot`s mother is saying that her son is mentally ill. In an interview with a Dutch newspaper, she said that he was actually supposed to be committed to a psychiatric hospital, but he took off to Peru instead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Joran is sick in his head, but wanted no help."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said her son suffered severe psychological problems when his dad died.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "If he killed Stephany, he`ll have to pay the price. I won`t visit him in his cell. I cannot embrace him."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Van Der Sloot says, I was tricked. That`s right, judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot now claims he was framed by Peruvian police and forced into a murder confession.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was framed."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will fight his murder confession...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was very scared and confused during the interrogations and wanted to get away."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His attorney says, though, he has instructed Van Der Sloot to say his confession to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez was coerced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was confused and just wanted it to end."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His due process rights have been violated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "They kept telling me, If you sign these papers, you`ll be extradited to the Netherlands."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I believe that confession is a total lie, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn`t thinking."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whenever they make a statement or confession, they always put themselves in the best possible light.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He should have gone for treatment in a closed clinic. He already needed psychiatric help back then."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot`s mother, Anita, says he`s mentally ill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I now believe that Joran may have, indeed, done something to Stephany in Peru, maybe in a burst of anger. I don`t know."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said Van Der Sloot sounded paranoid, that he felt like he was being followed and watched.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "If he had listened to his mother, then this would have never happened."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live, but now out to Jean Casarez, standing by live in Lima, Peru. Jean, I can`t believe it! Number one, the headline, he says, I was framed, and has recanted his confession?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Nancy, that is what happened in court today. At least, he gave a formal statement, only saying his due process rights were violated. But Nancy, we have just gotten into our hands in the last 60 seconds the prosecution document that they gave to the judge today. It`s probably about 20 pages long. It is all in Spanish. This is the essence of the prosecution`s case against Joran Van Der Sloot. My producer is translating it right now so I can be on your show. We`ll have information for you from that document throughout the show as soon as it is translated.
But Nancy, here`s the headline in the newspaper today, "Van Der Sloot no hablara" -- "He will not speak." That`s what the headline was this morning, and that is what came to pass because the formal statement required by Peruvian law did not manifest itself. Joran Van Der Sloot only said his rights were violated.
GRACE: So Jean Casarez, does he think he`s back home with Mommy and Daddy in Aruba? He`s not in Kansas anymore, Jean Casarez! It`s a different legal system! He can`t jump up in front of a judge and say, My rights were violated. I`m recanting. Uh-uh! It doesn`t work that way in Peru! Explain!
CASAREZ: Well, Maximo Altez is his attorney, and he is mounting this. And here`s what he`s basing it on, that when Joran Van Der Sloot made the confession that an attorney was by his side, but it was a buddy of police. It wasn`t someone that was really representing his rights.
But Nancy, we`ve got the confession. We have the transcript, and Joran Van Der Sloot plainly says in what was transcribed by police that, I`ve got an attorney, he`s by my side, I consent to it, let`s start the interrogation.
GRACE: And not only that, Jean, when he made the murder confession, the Dutch embassy had sent over a representative to make sure that he could understand what was being said to him, isn`t that true?
CASAREZ: Listen, let me tell you the facts on this. I have a question on that, all right? This confession was made on Sunday, June 6th. The next week is that whole week that I spent at the Hotel Tac. We were at the police station and then we went to Hotel Tac. I heard mid-week that they were trying to get an official certified Dutch translator. But on the other hand, I had heard that there was a Dutch translator when he gave that confession. So certified versus non- certified, or one there from the very beginning.
GRACE: So Jean, clear this up for me. Everybody, standing by live in Peru is Jean Casarez. Tonight we learn Joran Van Der Sloot totally disses the Peruvian judge by not speaking in court, now says the Peruvian police tricked him and framed him. It`s a big conspiracy to get Joran Van Der Sloot. He has recanted, or took back, his confession.
Jean, how does he say the police tricked him, or did they beat him into the confession? How did they trick him, according to him?
CASAREZ: Well, this comes from "De Telegraaf," which is the newspaper out of the Netherlands that is saying that Joran Van Der Sloot told them that he was made a promise -- If you confess to us, we`ll let you go back to Holland. But Nancy, I`ve got the transcript, and the transcript doesn`t start with the confession. The transcript starts minutes back, when the interrogation began, and there is nothing in that transcript that talks about a promise.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Joran Van Der Sloot in court in just the last hours completely disrespecting a Peruvian judge, refusing to answer any questions, as is the custom, the procedure there in Peruvian courts. And remember, the fact finder, the investigator, the prosecutor, the defense, it`s all up to this judge. This judge is the investigator on the case. Then the case goes not to a jury, as we know it, but to a three-judge panel. Who do you think they`re going to listen to, the judge or Joran Van Der Sloot?
Out to the lines. Gloria, Illinois. Hi, Gloria.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I have a couple of questions.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First, I know Van Der Sloot is a total liar. With his mother just coming into town and now his story changing, I think that his family plays a big role in covering up for him. And I think that he feels a lot of times (ph) more than he said. And also, I was looking at the video with him walking out of the hotel room -- it looks like he`s done this plenty of times. He didn`t look nervous. He...
GRACE: Oh, wait. Hold on, Gloria. Look at your TV. Look at this! See? He`s already -- Jean can tell us about this some more. But he goes out and gets coffee. But see, he just came out of the hotel room with the two coffees. Then he`s, like, Hello? Is anybody there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.
GRACE: He knows nobody`s coming to the door! And he does this because the camera is looking at him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: He has to get an employee to help him get back into the room he just came out of!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: It`s a big ruse. So Gloria, your question is what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to know if -- I believe (INAUDIBLE) because I believe that his parents is -- his -- his mom is always picking up for him and trying to...
GRACE: OK, about the mom. Jean Casarez, you`re there in Peru. Mommy hasn`t showed up, has she?
CASAREZ: No, she hasn`t. But you know, Nancy, I`m talking to the people of Lima to see what their state of mind is. And I was talking to a lady yesterday, and she was saying that she was blaming the mother because the mother did not put him on the right road in life. She wasn`t solely blaming him. In fact, she had compassion for him that he wasn`t put on that right road with the right values. And I said...
GRACE: Well, you know what, Jean?
CASAREZ: ... Well, what about his father...
GRACE: I want you to look that lady up and show her a picture of Stephany Tatiana`s murder scene! Her neck was cracked! That`s not the mommy`s fault! That is Joran Van Der Sloot`s fault!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He should have gone for treatment in a closed clinic. He already needed psychiatric help back then."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was tricked. I`ll explain later how it all happened."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot will stay right here, spend his days and his nights here at Castro Castro until he awaits his day in court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... confessed killer...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a confession in a high-profile killing...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Joran Van Der Sloot...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the confession, he went straight for her throat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was framed. I was tricked."
GRACE: Bombshell tonight!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot now says he was tricked into confessing to the murder of Stephany Flores.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did confess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New developments now in the Joran Van Der Sloot murder case...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... fighting his murder confession...
GRACE: He`s charged with murder one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He recants...
GRACE: ... booked into one of Peru`s most notorious jails...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s actually having to make a statement at his hearing before a judge today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is required under Peruvian law for the judge to ask questions, for the defendant to respond.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... fighting his murder confession...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His attorney says he`ll argue Van Der Sloot`s confession to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez was coerced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "They kept telling me, If you sign these papers, you`ll be extradited to the Netherlands."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... his due process rights have been violated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and his due process rights were violated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Until the habeas corpus investigation has concluded, he will not allow his client to say anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to Jean Casarez, standing by live in Lima. Jean, I got you off track, but what I had asked was, how does he claim the police tricked him into a confession? How did it happen?
CASAREZ: Well, according to "De Telegraaf," he`s saying that they promised him that if he would confess, that then he would be able to fly back to Holland to face charges or at least just get there, and that is what that he told them that he was tricked into that confession. But there`s nothing at all in that transcript that talks about a trip to Holland.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, that doesn`t even make sense. He doesn`t have any pending charges in Holland or in Aruba. That`s what I`ve been screaming about the last five years is that nobody will charge him with murdering Natalee, or at least getting rid of her body, hiding her body! He`s confessed to that repeatedly! So that doesn`t make sense. Go home to Holland for what? He doesn`t have any charges there.
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, it actually makes a lot of sense. You know why? This is out of Joran Van Der Sloot`s mouth. It`s not a legal document, it`s not from his attorney, it`s not from a transcript, it`s what he is saying. So think about the last five years, Nancy.
GRACE: You`re right. You`re right, Jean Casarez. We`ll take your calls, but right now, let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, international criminal defense attorney Michael Griffith, Gloria Allred joining us out of L.A., attorney and victims` rights advocate. Also with us, Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney and also author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" And of course, Joey Jackson joining us out of New York, defense attorney.
Michael Griffith, what was supposed to happen in court today? You`ve handled cases in Peru. He goes in there and disses the judge! I don`t think that`s what they had planned!
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL ATTORNEY (via telephone): He`s the judge of what`s called the "first instance," the investigative judge. The judge can ask him to come back on later occasions and take statements from different people. He has a right not to say anything, but I don`t know who`s giving this guy legal advice because if you don`t cooperate, Nancy, they -- they -- it`s called obstruction, and you can get a longer sentence. By cooperating, you can mitigate it, and he can`t get -- nobody cares about the confession because they`ve got the video, the statement from the hotel clerk about, Let the girl sleep, the blood on his shirt and his fleeing to Chile. Forget the confession. This guy`s going to be convicted. End of story.
GRACE: To Gloria Allred, joining us out of L.A. Gloria, it`s a whole different ballgame. You try cases all over the world. Most recently, you were over in Italy, working on a case, that I know if anyway. Gloria, they don`t have the same procedures that we have here. This same judge may very well be on the case for a long time as a fact finder. Now he`s dissed the judge!
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, exactly. And of course, the police, as well. And what`s going to be next, Nancy? Is he going to recant his recantation of the confession? Is he going to give a different confession and then recant that? I mean, he gave numerous so-called confessions in the Natalee Holloway case, so who knows what`s next.
GRACE: Hey, Mickey Sherman, I was so worried he was going to get good time for cooperating and be out in seven years. I should have known Van Der Sloot would screw it up for himself.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he`s an inveterate liar. And that`s going to be his defense, I lied about this because I lie about everything. And you know, the police are allowed to trick people into making confessions. There`s really noting wrong with that. It`s the way it`s done. They can`t beat him up, though. They can`t waterboard him.
GRACE: That`s right, Joey Jackson. There`s nothing wrong with a little trickery.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, it`s not the trickery. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. And the fact is, is that that judge is someone who`s needed. And what he should have done, Nancy, is bore (ph) himself upon the court and say, I did it, I`m sorry for it, and hope for a lesser sentence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was really scared during the interrogation. I was confused and just wanted it to end."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot is fighting his murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She sees the e-mail, questions him about Holloway, hits him, he elbows her, strangles her, suffocates her...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn`t thinking."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not like he met her in the casino and then lured her to his room with the intent to kill her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... word-by-word transcript, Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He seems to admit that those coffee cups -- he got the coffee after she was dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Stephany he may have killed."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to Lima, Peru. We are getting breaking news. Jean Casarez has obtained the prosecution`s document. That`s what -- where the prosecution lays out their case and gives it to the judge. It happened in court in the last hours. Jean`s just gotten it. It`s all in Spanish. Excuse me, it`s all written in Peruvian. Jean, what have you learned?
CASAREZ: Well, Maya Cuevas (ph), my producer, has been working on this while I`m on your show. And Nancy, for the first time, we have got the results of the psychological examination that was given to Van Der Sloot. Here is what it says. It is from psychological testing done to Joran. Quote, "Low tolerance toward frustration, does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him. It generates in him a challenging attitude. Emotionally immature, which creates in him strong changes in his behavior which goes from a simple criticism to becoming out of control, which could move him to commit acts against the life of another. He reflects certain domination over the opposite sex. He doesn`t value the female role."
Now, Nancy, that is just an excerpt, but that is some conclusions from Joran Van Der Sloot`s psychological evaluation.
GRACE: With us live, Jean Casarez. She has just gotten her hands on the prosecution`s document where they lay their case out to the judge. She`s gotten it out of the courtroom.
Quickly, everyone, we`re taking your calls live, but I want to thank you for your support for my first murder mystery novel, "Eleventh Victim," and thank you for making it a "New York Times" best-seller. Today it hit the newsstands in paperback. Portions of my proceeds go to Wesley Glen, that provides a home for the mentally handicapped. Again, I want to thank you so much, and I hope you like the book.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Joran Van Der Sloot now says Peruvian police promised to transfer him to the Netherlands if he signed some papers.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, SUSPECT IN NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S DISAPPEARANCE (Through translator): I was tricked. In my blind panic, I signed everything, but never knew what was written on them.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot is fighting his murder confession.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Blood all over the room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It wasn`t just an, oh, I got mad at her and did a -- you know, a quick murder, it was incredibly violent.
GRACE: A broken neck. Her eye pulled out of the socket.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Van Der Sloot`s mother Anita says her son suffered severe psychological problems when his dad died in February this year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Two days, Joran cried. He even hung over the coffin, sobbing."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Van Der Sloot blamed himself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "It`s my fault, dad, I have caused your heart attack."
GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot lied.
VAN DER SLOOT (Through translator): I was very scared and confused during the interrogations and wanted to get away.
GRACE: In his police confession, really air brushed what happened.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Back out to Jean Casarez, standing by in Lima.
Jean, you have just gotten the document, the prosecution`s case, laid out in writing that`s handed to the judge. That is Peruvian procedure. What else have you learned?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, we`ve learned also toxicology results. It says in that report, from prosecutors, that there were actually amphetamines that were found in the system of Stephany Flores, as per the toxicology examination.
GRACE: Jean, could you go through one more time about the psychological evaluation of judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot?
CASAREZ: Yes. This is something to read again, because this is the first time we have ever read or heard about a psychological examination and here are the conclusions. Low tolerance towards frustration, does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him.
It generates in him a challenging attitude. Emotionally immature, which creates in him strong challenges in his behavior which go from a simple criticism to becoming out of control, which could move him to commit acts against the life of another.
He reflects certain domination over the opposite sex. He does not value the female role.
GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, psychologist joining us out of New York, translate.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, a psychopath, Nancy, poor impulse control, grandiose, thinks he`s better than everybody, contemptuous of others, especially of women.
No conscience and no sense of the consequences of his own actions, easily escalates into violence. Very immature, highly dangerous.
GRACE: To the lines. Kathleen, Massachusetts. Hi, Kathleen.
KATHLEEN, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Nancy. A couple of questions.
GRACE: OK.
KATHLEEN: I would like to know if Stephany`s parents ever filed a missing person report since she was gone for two days. And another thing I`d like to say, regarding his mental illness, there had to be many telltale signs of him growing up, you don`t just become a sociopath overnight. And I really feel it`s appalling that his parents didn`t do anything about it.
GRACE: Well, I`m not so sure, Kathleen in Massachusetts, that he`s mentally ill in the legal sense of the word, which means you did not know right from wrong at the time of the incident. In America, anyway, and you can see by his behavior, the way he does that setup, leaving his hotel room, the way he sets it up so no one will come into his home room for days on end.
When he flees the scene, runs to Chile, his various lies. He first told police that armed men had attacked him and Stephany, and that that`s what happened.
All of the cunning and the attempts to hide and lie about the truth show he knew it was wrong.
I want to go right now out to Jean Casarez. What about that missing -- that missing persons report, Jean?
CASAREZ: Nancy, they immediately went to police. You see, Stephany still lived with her parents, 21 years old, and she didn`t come home that night. They immediately went to police. They thought it was a kidnapping and what I learned from interviewing the family, the car was found in an alley.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what more can you tell us?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, Joran`s mother has spoken out and she said that he has had a history of psychiatric problems. That in fact, that he fled to Peru just two days before they planned to commit him to a mental hospital.
Now she didn`t get into specifics about what his diagnosis might have been, but she says that he`s got a history of problems.
GRACE: But then she also says maybe he did something to Stephany, maybe in a burst of anger.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: But I understood that she said he was about to go into a mental ward, but not that he had a history of mental illness?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, I should correct myself, not a long history, necessarily, but she said that since the Holloway case, he was traumatized by what happened to him in that case being --
GRACE: What happened to him?
HOLMES: Right.
GRACE: What-- wait, put Ellie up.
JOSTAD: That`s right.
GRACE: He was traumatized by what happened to him? Beating a murder rap and having his daddy cover up for him? He was traumatized?
JOSTAD: Yes. That is what his mother said.
GRACE: That`s the mental illness? OK.
JOSTAD: Yes.
GRACE: Thanks, Ellie, for all the input.
Rupa Mikkilineni, you`ve just come from Aruba, what did you learn?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, we know that Joran Van Der Sloot`s mother is still in Aruba. She has no plans to visit her son. She`s extremely conflicted. As you can see from some of the statements she has made to "De Telegraaf". You know, in one moment --
GRACE: Hold on, Rupa, didn`t you hear what Jean Casarez just told us about how he does not value the female role? And Patricia Saunders -- Dr. Saunders explained it. No telling how he`s treated his mother all of these years. I guess she is conflicted.
MIKKILINENI: You are so right, Nancy. And there were fights and arguments between the mother and the son back in February after the father passed away. And, you know, it`s been tremendously painful for her. She has two younger children to take care of, so she is washing her hands of her son.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Michael Griffith, you practiced in Peru. In Peru, can you suddenly just say, oh, you know that confession that I gave to murder, erase. Erase. Didn`t happen. He can`t do that in Peru.
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via phone): Yes, you can do it, but it`s not going to get you anywhere, because if you don`t cooperate with them, Nancy, you`re not going to get a mitigated sentence.
And I also might say to you that it would probably be better to get a better psychological report because I have a case like this right now --
GRACE: I`m sure you do.
GRIFFITH: From a country where a psychologist speaks his language. Not a Peruvian psychologist, doing a Dutch boy. But you`ve got to get a Dutch psychologist to do it. That would be even stronger.
GRACE: What about it, Gloria?
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY & VICTIMS` RIGHT ADVOCATE: Well, absolutely. By the way, do we need a psychologist to know that this was a male chauvinist pig? And that is dangerous to a woman`s health. To any woman`s health. When a man has no value for women and doesn`t think of her.
And I don`t know whether his father valued his mother or not, whether he learned this from his father, I have no idea. That is dangerous. It`s dangerous to wives, it`s dangerous to girlfriends, and it`s dangerous to strangers who are women.
GRACE: Weigh in, Joey Jackson.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I say this. What I would have done initially, Nancy, is prepare him for that hearing today. And it would start there the defense. I would be embracing that confession. Why? Because you want a mitigated sentence.
There`s no way that he`s going to get out from under this. Make no mistake about it. One of our roles as a an attorney as a very prominent role is to mitigate whatever sentence you have. And they have in Peru - - just like we have here in the States -- a line in degradation of different offenses.
I would try to get him on manslaughter, he did it, it was unfortunate, he didn`t mean it, he lost his mind.
GRACE: To Mickey Sherman, veteran criminal defense attorney.
Mickey, over there, the fact -- even if you kill someone in cold blood, the fact that you confess to it, and -- it means a lot over there. Here, as a prosecutor, I`d be thrilled somebody confessed.
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": I agree (INAUDIBLE) going to happen over there. I disagree with Michael Griffith even though he`s more foreign experience.
This guy can cure AIDS, cancer, and jock itch and he`s still not going to get any mitigating circumstances. They`re going to throw the book at this guy, as well they probably should, and none of the psychological stuff, I think, is going to come into evidence because it`s opinion evidence.
But on simply the facts alone and the fact that he is perceived as a despicable human being and probably killed somebody in Aruba, he`s going to get the maximum. I don`t care what -- how much he cooperates.
GRACE: To Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining us out of L.A.
Dr. Oliver, what does it mean that she had amphetamines in her system?
HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Only that she had taken amphetamines. She was probably taking them to be more alert while she was in a poker game.
GRACE: At the casino? Yes. Yes.
OLIVER: Yes.
GRACE: Because she actually played professionally, to my understanding, and she would play into the night. Had just won a couple of thousand dollars.
Everybody, as we go to break, we are taking your calls. But I want to stop and remember Ella stokes, Jacksonville, Florida, at 100 plus. She inspired us. Born on a farm, Macon, Georgia, she walked three miles every day on a clay road to elementary school.
She met her husband, W.H. Stokes at a little Methodist church. He was a lifelong railroad man and together they grew a family of three sons. A dedicated member to the profoundly religious group, the Eastern Star. Her joy, providing a loving home for her family and, oh, what a cook.
Dear Aunt Ella, good night, friend.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAUNDERS: He just got so arrogant, he just didn`t think anything was ever going to catch up with him, but now it has.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The manhunt is over.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He has been captured.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police believe that Van Der Sloot killed 21- year-old Stephany Flores.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a very dramatic confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "With my right elbow, I hit her in the face, exactly on top of the nose."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "There was blood everywhere."
ROBERTS: A murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did confess, but the lawyer would say well, it`s a coerced confession. You can`t believe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "So I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
ROBERTS: Joran Van Der Sloot now says he was tricked into confessing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Van Der Sloot said he was led to believe he would be transferred to the Netherlands if he signed the confession.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities insist his confession was not coerced.
SAUNDERS: He`s a psychopath and he`s going to play the game to the best of his ability. So he can get away with as much as he can get away with.
ROBERTS: Anita Van Der Sloot told reporters her son, quote, "is sick in his head."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they going to corroborate everything he said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have videotape evidence of him going in there with him and her not coming out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have a wealth of physical evidence from the room itself.
SAUNDERS: A horrible, brutal crime and I think all of this forensics is going to prove exactly what happened.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. Deena in Utah. Hi, Deena.
DEENA, CALLER FROM UTAH: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling. What`s your question?
DEENA: Actually, I just kind of have a comment, a theory.
GRACE: OK.
DEENA: When Joran`s going into the hotel room and then he comes out and knocks on the door and has the coffees in his hands, and goes and gets the maid, it almost seems like to me he`s hoping that she`ll walk in and see the murder first and so he can blame that he was not there when it happened.
GRACE: You know what, Deena, that`s not a bad theory. What about it, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: No, I think that makes a lot of sense, because we read from the police, actually, the police told us that the two cups of coffee were full, that were found in the room, and also he admits in the confession that he got the coffee after she was deceased. He doesn`t quite know why he did it, but I think she`s exactly right.
GRACE: Jean, I understand you`ve learned more from translating the prosecution case, document that gave the judge a couple of hours ago?
CASAREZ: Yes. This is the prosecution document, handed to the judge today. It is their investigation.
Here`s what we`ve learned. Amongst the items that have been turned in as evidence, which Joran had in his possession, is a book on Al Capone, a camera, a photo album, and currency from the following nations, Trinidad, Tobago, Venezuela, Indonesia, Philippines, Chile, Macau, euros, Hong Kong, Malaysia, the U.S., and France.
GRACE: OK, to you, Tom Shamshak, former police chief, private investigator, instructor at BU, Boston University. What do you make of him carrying those currencies?
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Good evening, Nancy. Thank you for having me back.
That`s an interesting development. Has he been to these countries in the past or was he planning to travel to these other destinations, engage in poker matches, or look for other victims? This may be a serial killer we have on our hands.
GRACE: The thing is, Tom Shamshak, he had been to some of them in the past, but he was on the run. I think he didn`t know which way he was going to go and these were some of the places that he was considering.
SHAMSHAK: I agree. He was diabolical and methodical in dying his hair and that ruse of trying to get somebody to go in and maybe see the body there before he`s detected.
GRACE: Tonight, the bombshell that we are learning, after Joran Van Der Sloot goes in front of a Peruvian judge today and totally disses him, he now says he was forced, tricked into confessing to Stephany`s murder.
That he recants the confession, in other words, takes it back. And we now see not only him, but his mother trying to line up an insanity defense.
Back to you, Jean Casarez. In that psychological statement that you have just gotten in your hands, it says nothing about mental illness.
CASAREZ: No, it doesn`t. It talks about sort of like an explosion of his temper, but let`s remember how this crime is charged. It`s charged as first-degree murder, and you know in the United States when you have aggravators of heinous, atrocious, and cruel, they have ferociousness with great cruelty. That`s how this was charged.
GRACE: And your point would be that the psychological exam suggests that he responded in a fit of anger?
CASAREZ: But it`s still first-degree murder. It`s not a manslaughter. It`s not something less than that. There is an aggravator and it`s first degree.
GRACE: I see. I see what you`re saying. They are saying in this psychological exam that a small frustration challenges him and he responds -- he overly responds in a fit of anger to lead to a ferocious attack, which would be murder one in Peru?
CASAREZ: Yes, that is correct. And they`re making it very general there. So look at that psychological examination and think about the Natalee Holloway case.
GRACE: Joining us live in Peru, Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session."
Back to the lawyers. Michael Griffith, what does it all mean as far as Peruvian law?
GRIFFITH: Well, what it means is, he has two choices. If he wants to plead guilty and not be obstructive, he can get a sentence within six months. If he wants to go to trial, he`s going to break the hump of the judges and be found guilty, it`s going to take two to three years and be a more significant sentence.
GRACE: I understand, Gloria Allred, that he`s complaining that rats crawl out of his -- I want to say commode, but it`s really a hole for him to use as a commode. That they crawl out at night.
ALLRED: Yes --
GRACE: I would say birds of a feather flock together.
ALLRED: Well, exactly. Perhaps he`s got something in common with the rat. Here he is complaining about his cell. He`s lucky to be alive. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said about poor Stephany.
GRACE: When we come back, we`ll hear Griffith, Jackson and Sherman whine about the rats.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Van Der Sloot`s mother Anita says he`s mentally ill. In an interview with a Dutch newspaper, she says her son was supposed to be committed to a psych hospital but fled instead to Peru.
GRACE: Another young girl just 21 meets Van Der Sloot at a resort casino.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just hours before she was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s devastating that these things happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I now believe that Joran may have indeed done something to Stephany in Peru, maybe in a burst of anger. I don`t know."
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Back to Jean Casarez.
Jean, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Hold on.
Liz, take me down off the screen. Is that toilet paper that I`m seeing? Let`s see that.
Michael Griffith, you told me this was impossible in a Peruvian jail. I`m seeing it with my own eyes. This is video that Jean shot behind bars. This guy is getting special treatment.
GRIFFITH: He`s getting special treatment. It`s a setup by the Peruvian government because Billy Hayes (INAUDIBLE) taught me that the way they do it in these prisons is they take water from a spigot, put it in a can, they wipe their tookies (ph) with their fingers.
And if Mickey Sherman ever disagrees with me again, I`m going to his house and steal his toilet paper and see how he likes it.
GRACE: Make a little tipi on the front yard there, Michael Griffith. Yes, you know what? Hold on, I`m hearing to go back to Jean.
Jean Casarez, give me the lowdown on what you learned in that statement prosecutors gave the judge.
Jean, and her producers there interpreting as we go to air.
CASAREZ: Well, for the first time we have -- for the first time we have psychological evaluation on Joran Van Der Sloot saying that he tends toward being impulsive, that he has no patience, and that it can provoke violence against women. That`s the core and essence of this statement.
GRACE: Jean Casarez standing by live in Lima.
Let`s stop and remember, Marine Lance Corporal Jason Burnett, 20, St. Cloud, Florida, killed Iraq. Awarded the National Defense Service Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal, Sea Service Deployment Ribbon.
Loves mission trip with his church group. Preparing homes for the needy. Soccer, ATV. Being on the water. Never met a stranger. Dreamed of marriage and having a family. Leaves behind parents Ronald and Michelle, grandfather Paul, brother Ryan.
Jason Burnett, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. And a special good night from friends of the show, Donna, Rebecca, Jana, Marcia, Linda, Tia and Rayford.
What a beautiful bunch.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
