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Campbell Brown

Judge Overturns Obama Administration Ban on Offshore Drilling; Interview With T. Boone Pickens; General Stanley McChrystal in Danger?

Aired June 22, 2010 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. Campbell Brown is off tonight. I'm John Roberts.

Day 64 of the disaster in the Gulf, and, tonight, a judge in New Orleans has blocked President Obama's moratorium on new deepwater drilling. The White House promises to fight back, but will that put the president at odds with the people in the Gulf who say the moratorium is killing their economy?

Also tonight, I will ask legendary oilman T. Boone Pickens if there's another danger lurking in the waters of the Gulf.

And, later, will a bombshell "Rolling Stone" interview sink America's top commander in Afghanistan? Why did General Stanley McChrystal and the staff talk trash on the record about top members of the administration?

Plus: why Nebraska is now the new front line in the battle over immigration.

We have got lots to get to tonight for you, but we begin with our number-one story, the lead on all the networks tonight as well, the general who may be just hours away from being personally fired by the commander in chief.

Tonight, a senior national security official tells CNN's John King that General Stanley McChrystal is prepared to resign if told that the president has lost confidence in him. McChrystal and his team gave extraordinary quotes to "Rolling Stone" magazine, slamming many major players in the Obama administration.

Late today, the president responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Mr. President, are you going to fire Mr. McChrystal?

BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States: General McChrystal is on his way here. And I am going to meet with him. Secretary Gates will be meeting with him as well.

I think it's clear that the article in which he and his team appeared showed a poor -- showed poor judgment. And -- but I also want to make sure that I talk to him directly before I make any final decisions.

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I gave him the article last night. And he was angry.

QUESTION: How so?

GIBBS: Angry. You would know it if you saw it.

(LAUGHTER)

QUESTION: Is removing the general from his position at least an option the president is considering?

GIBBS: I would say all options are on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: McChrystal has apologized, but it may be too late for him.

Take a look at some of the comments that he and his team made in that "Rolling Stone" article. One of McChrystal's aide calls National Security Adviser Jim Jones a clown who remains stuck in 1985. McChrystal says U.S. Ambassador Karl Eikenberry covers his flank for the history books.

An aide says McChrystal called Special Representative Richard Holbrooke -- quote -- "a wounded animal." About the vice president, McChrystal joked that Vice President Biden, who's that? An aide chimes in, Biden? Did you say bite me?

And of the man who may very well fire him tomorrow, sources told "Rolling Stone" that General McChrystal felt President Obama looked -- quote -- "uncomfortable and intimidated" in a meeting with military brass.

The only praise for the administration was saved for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, an aide saying -- quote -- "Hillary had Stan's back."

With me now is Robert Kaplan, a correspondent for "The Atlantic Monthly" who has interviewed McChrystal at length. Also joining us, presidential historian Doug Brinkley.

And, Doug, let me start with you.

Does the president have any choice but to fire General McChrystal?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, let me start by saying General McChrystal's been a great American. He's had incredible public service. Our country owes him a lot.

But he's shown kind of recklessness of language. The idea of letting a "Rolling Stone" reporter in bed with you and talk about the president and the national security adviser and others in such an awful way shows such bad judgment, I think the president's probably going to have to do the hard thing and accept his resignation.

I don't see how you just slap him on the wrist and let him go, because, basically, General McChrystal's said he disagrees with the main thrust of Obama foreign policy-making.

ROBERTS: Yes, Robert Kaplan, what -- your thoughts on this? And we should point out, too, that this is not the first time that General McChrystal will have been taken to the woodshed by the president, but it also raises the question of, if you get rid of McChrystal, particularly with that major offensive in Kandahar about to begin, who do you replace him with?

ROBERT KAPLAN, "THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY": Well, that's the question, because, when you fire someone, you don't just fire him for what he's just done. You fire him for the damage he can continue to do.

And if the president decides that he just can't credibly lead and be the public face of our policy in Afghanistan in the wake of this "Rolling Stone" story, then he's got to be able to get a commander of equal talent and ability, which is going to be real hard to do, on the ground running without having to do a completely new reassessment all on a fixed timeline, because General McChrystal, you know, though his behavior was -- you know, really tested the limits of recklessness in saying -- in his staff saying what they did in front of a "Rolling Stone" reporter, is really one of the three or four top generals to -- Army generals to have emerged over the last 10 years of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yes, there are other options that have been mentioned already through the course of the day. You could bring in Marine General Jim -- James Mattis, who, like General McChrystal, is incredibly well- read, who combines kind of an intellectualism with being a warrior.

You could kind of demote General Petraeus and have him take command of the operation on the ground in Afghanistan, and name a new CENTCOM commander, but both -- all these things would raise other problems.

ROBERTS: Sure.

KAPLAN: So, President Obama's really in a tough situation.

ROBERTS: You know, Doug, you touched on this just a moment ago, and as did Robert.

What does this say about General McChrystal's state of mind, that he and his team would say these things in front of a writer from "Rolling Stone" magazine?

BRINKLEY: Well, "60 Minutes" did a piece some months ago, and there was General McChrystal bragging to people that he didn't eat breakfast or lunch every day and running around with his shirt top off.

I called Jann Wenner, who owns "Rolling Stone," today and talked to him, and said, how did you get a reporter embedded in Afghanistan and get him so comfortable to be hanging around McChrystal? And Jann told me, vanity. He saw that weakness, a peacock general who likes a lot of press, who likes to see his name in lights.

That's not what we need to fight the war on terror. This is one creek too far for General McChrystal. And I agree with Mr. Kaplan. It is a pity to lose a guy like this, but I don't think that the president can keep him on. I think he has to have his Harry Truman dumping Douglas MacArthur moment here.

ROBERTS: And, Robert, does this speak to broader problems between the military and the White House? The military didn't have a tremendous amount of respect for the Clinton administration. It did for the Bush administration up until partway through the Iraq war at least.

(CROSSTALK)

KAPLAN: Yes, it does.

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTS: But is this a broader example that maybe the military doesn't have the respect for this administration that we thought it did?

KAPLAN: Well, we have a structural problem.

The military has a fluid chain of command, from Secretary Gates to General Petraeus to General McChrystal. But the military -- but the civilian chain of command now is balkanized, because you have Ambassador Eikenberry. You have special envoy Holbrooke. You have Vice President Biden, who comes -- you know, who goes in and out of Afghanistan.

There's not that clear civilian czar of Afghan policy, like you had in Iraq with Ambassador Ryan Crocker. Remember, the Crocker- Petraeus team is really the gold standard, where President Bush had their backs and there was like total fluidity, you know, total interchangeability between Crocker and McChrystal.

And you do not have that in Afghanistan. You have a bunch of top people sniping at each other behind each other's backs.

ROBERTS: Well, I will tell you, after a stellar career like his, to see it come to this is nothing short of troubling and in some ways very tragic.

All right.

(CROSSTALK)

KAPLAN: It's very tragic, because I have seen a whole different side of him in my own reporting.

ROBERTS: All right. KAPLAN: And I have the highest regard for him, but I don't see how the president can get out of this decision.

ROBERTS: Robert Kaplan, Doug Brinkley, good to talk to you tonight. Thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

KAPLAN: Thank you.

ROBERTS: Well, coming up: another blow to the White House, an important ruling about deepwater drilling in the wake of the oil spill disaster. I'm going to talk about that and much more with our exclusive guest, oilman T. Boone Pickens.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Our number-one national story tonight, the looming battle over drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

A federal judge in New Orleans today blocked President Obama's six-month moratorium on deepwater drilling in the region, calling it -- quote -- "heavy-handed and overbearing."

Press Secretary Robert Gibbs says the administration will appeal it immediately. He says deepwater poses -- quote -- "a danger" that the president does not believe we can afford.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A federal judge striking down that deepwater drilling ban saying the Obama administration acted arbitrarily when it suspended drilling at 33 wells in the Gulf.

The judge saying, if some drilling equipment parts are flawed, is it rational to say all are? But, according to one industry report, those blowout protectors that failed on Deepwater don't work almost half the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The worry has been a wave of layoffs. On each of the 33 idle rigs, 900 to 1,400 jobs are at risk. In Port Fourchon, 15,000 jobs are at stake and at least 120,000 throughout the industry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's at stake in all of this for you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For me, everything.

GOV. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: You can't just turn the switch on and off. Once these rigs leave the Gulf, they may be gone for years.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ROBERTS: So, will the legal battle pit the president against Gulf Coast residents who say the moratorium could devastate their economy?

Joining me now, CNN political contributor James Carville and Tim Kerner. He's the mayor of Jean Lafitte, Louisiana.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: Mayor Kerner, James Carville, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks for joining us.

And, James, let me start with you, if I could.

If you were advising the president, what would you suggest he do on a challenge to this moratorium?

JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it is in the courts. And I think the best way for this to be resolved is the court to overturn the moratorium, because I can tell you that the economy of South Louisiana is being crippled beyond belief by this.

And I think that there's a way to operate these rigs in a safe manner. And as opposed to the moratorium, if the president had some really tough ways and tough oversight that made these CEOs sign off, I think we could get back going again.

But the state can't take this, this whammy of what -- all the things that's happened to our seafood industry and also now what is happening to the petroleum industry. It just -- it can't be done.

ROBERTS: So, when you look at the Obama administration, though, saying that it will appeal this decision immediately -- and it's one thing to declare a moratorium and then see an economic impact, but when you know what the economic impact is, and you're determined to fight this in court, does it make it look like they're being insensitive to the economic situation on the Gulf?

CARVILLE: Well, I think, to some extent, it does. Look, this was a big event. You can't blame them for having a moratorium for some length.

I'm a little bit -- and they had the moratorium in place. They went to court. They lost. If they wouldn't appeal it, people say, well, gee, why did you have it if you -- I think it has to go through the legal process.

The best thing that could happen for Louisiana and I think the country is to have an expedited legal process, and Judge Feldman's ruling would be upheld.

ROBERTS: Mayor Kerner, Robert Gibbs, the White House spokesman, said today about the moratorium, he says that just lifting it would pose too many risks. He said -- quote -- "Continuing to drill at these depths without knowing what happened does not make any sense and it puts the safety of those involved -- potentially puts safety of those on the rigs, safety of the environment in the Gulf at a danger that the president does not believe we can afford right now."

Is he correct? Can we afford to continue drilling in deepwater if we don't fully understand what happened?

TIM KERNER, MAYOR OF JEAN LAFITTE, LOUISIANA: I will tell you what. I don't think we need a moratorium on it.

It is going to devastate the communities all through Louisiana and also Southern states like Texas and Alabama. I mean, it's so many things, that my community doesn't have sufficient levies. We actually get some of the royalty sharing from our offshore drilling, and it's getting ready to start. Hey, that's our only hope.

ROBERTS: Mr. Mayor, we should point out that we are being treated to the New Orleans calliope there as we're talking to you. It's lovely music, but it does tend to be a little -- and intrusive.

But let me ask you this question, because there was such a complicated interplay and relationship there in the Gulf between tourism and fishing and the oil and gas industry. We know that your area's been devastated by the oil spill.

I was down in Lafitte, and there's not a shrimp boat that is working unless it's hauling oil boom or operating a skimmer. So, if there is even the chance that there could be another blowout like the one that we have been watching for more than 60 days now, is it not in the best interests of your people down there to ensure that there's a thorough review before you lift this moratorium?

KERNER: Well, like I said, look, this company made a bad mistake and it's a terrible thing.

But I will hope that in the past that our regulators actually was there and made these wells that's drilled -- that's already been drilled safe, and then we should put people in place to make sure that any new drilling is safe.

But I think to shut them all down now, I think we could -- we could monitor them and make sure they're safe without putting people out of work and shutting the -- shutting oil wells down.

ROBERTS: James, it would appear that a majority of Americans disagree with you. A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll June 16 found 58 percent of Americans approve of the drilling suspension. What makes you right and them wrong?

CARVILLE: If you told people there were 700 safety -- major safety violations in 2009, and all but one were for BP, that would probably give people more confidence.

And if you added the fact, just like the mayor said, maybe we could have a regulator on the rig with the authority to shut it down at any time, if you instituted some safety procedures, I think that 58 number would drop to 18.

ROBERTS: But have we not learned through what happened with this BP rig that if there's a blowout at that depth, there's nothing you can do about it?

CARVILLE: That's why you have to be doubly careful to be sure.

ROBERTS: Mayor Kerner, when Judge Feldman released his financial disclosure, which was required in dealing with this case, he disclosed that he owns tens of thousands of dollars in stock in companies that deal with drilling in the Gulf, including Transocean.

On the surface, it would seem like there's a conflict of interests going on here. Are you comfortable he can make an impartial decision and not one that is in his interests?

KERNER: Well, look, I'm hoping. He's a federal judge. He should -- I mean, all federal judges should be able to make impartial decisions.

And I think the one he made was right. Look, I will tell you what. You know, you are talking to a guy that represents a community that went through disasters, four in the last few years, and now this oil spill. And I will tell you that the rest of the public looking at oil in the Gulf, yes, it's rightfully so that the majority would want a moratorium.

But I will tell you this much. The people that know and the people that's actually making a living and the people that go through all these different things to provide energy for the rest of the states, so we're not dependent on foreign oil, that's the people that you're affecting. That's the people that's been standing on the front line for rest of America.

And I don't think you ought to put them on unemployment.

ROBERTS: James Carville, Mayor Tim Kerner, good to talk to you tonight. Thanks so much for joining us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: Well, this word coming in to CNN. Even as we talk about a judge lifting the government's six-month ban on deepwater drilling, we have just received a statement from Interior Secretary Ken Salazar indicating that he will issue a new moratorium in the coming days, despite today's ruling.

It's one that Salazar says -- quote -- "eliminates any doubt that a moratorium is needed, appropriate and within our authorities."

Well, that's an issue that we will put a true legend in the oil industry, T. Boone Pickens on the moratorium coming straight up and the dangerous levels of methane gas just discovered in the Gulf waters -- my exclusive interview just ahead.

And later on: a tough new law aimed at curbing illegal immigration, but this time it's not in a border state, but in a town deep in the heart of the Midwest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ROBERTS: Well, again tonight's breaking news, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar indicating he will issue a new oil drilling moratorium in the coming days, despite today's court ruling putting his on hold.

But also tonight, we have yet another amazing and disturbing image of the oil spill disaster. Take a look at this NASA satellite photo. You can see the white swirls. Those are streaks from the spill as it inches ever closer to the shores of Alabama and Florida.

Well, there's another kind of big picture that we want to take a look at tonight as well, what the disaster means for changing how this country gets its energy.

With me from Dallas, legendary oilman T. Boone Pickens. He's CEO of BP Capital, which, we should point out, is not related in any way to the BP oil company.

Boone, good to talk to you tonight. Thanks for joining us.

T. BOONE PICKENS, FOUNDER & CHAIRMAN, BP CAPITAL: You bet, John.

ROBERTS: First thing I wanted to ask you about, this breaking news tonight that Interior Secretary Ken Salazar says that he is going to issue in the coming days a new moratorium on deepwater drilling, one that he says will be consistent with what they believe are the requirements and the needs right now and the authority that the administration has. And I wanted to get your response to that.

PICKENS: Oh, I -- we don't need a moratorium.

The accident that BP's had could be likened to qualified pilots in an airliner, and they have pilot error, airliner crashes, starts a 50,000-acre forest fire, and we shut down all flying, no more airlines until we have six months to see what happened.

That doesn't -- isn't the way to do it. We know what we're doing. The industry does. And, so, they should allow the rigs to continue to operate. You cut out jobs. You confuse the issue. And I wouldn't have any more moratoriums. I would proceed.

ROBERTS: On that point, Boone, in terms of an investigation to make sure that all safety procedures are followed, that all of the regulations are being upheld, the drilling rig on the Deepwater Horizon passed its safety inspections, and still had a blowout.

Would it be prudent, then, to make sure that everything is thoroughly investigated to ensure that this doesn't happen again, because as we pointed out in our last segment with James Carville that if there were to be another blowout on the ocean floor, despite everything that they have learned in the past 60-some-odd days, they wouldn't be able to stop the flow of oil?

PICKENS: Well, you can come up with, you know, all kinds of cases, but we have had the BP blowout.

Where was the blowout that happened before that? It was 50 years ago in 1969 in Santa Barbara. So, the record has been pretty good for the industry. And I think you should proceed.

Listen, we're importing five million barrels of oil a day from the Mideast. And we need to have the oil production. And, so, I would proceed. You know, the security issue for the United States to be importing 20 -- to be using 21 million barrels a day, importing 13 million barrels of the 21, that's a security issue.

ROBERTS: Boone, you paint a picture where a six-month moratorium could easily turn into a year or more, because rigs would head off overseas, maybe to Brazil, off the coast of Nigeria, maybe even the Far East, to get business.

A lot of these companies that supply ships that supply the rigs might move offshore as well. What kind of economic impact could this have? And how long would it take to get the oil business back?

PICKENS: Well, to be back up drilling with 34 rigs in the deepwater, which was the case when the moratorium -- when the moratorium was handed out, that you're looking at 12 to 18 months to get back to that level.

ROBERTS: And what would that mean for the oil industry here in the United States, and what would it mean for our supply of oil?

PICKENS: Well, you have got -- you're going to decline in the deepwater the production that you have there, because you're not adding to the reserves and the production.

So, I would say that, within 12 to 18 months, you would probably lose 400,000 barrels of production a day, which would mean we would have to rely on somebody else for the oil. And that's not good. So, it's -- and you're talking about probably 35,000 people being out of work.

ROBERTS: You're a big proponent, Boone, of natural gas, particularly as a way to fuel transportation. There have been some reports in recent days, some from engineers, some from other people, that there may be huge concentrations of methane gas below the surface there at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.

One quote here, it says -- quote -- "The crude oil from the Macondo well, which is damaging the Gulf of Mexico, contains about 40 percent methane, compared with about 5 percent found in typical oil deposits."

Now, the suggestion here is that it is dangerous to drill in that area. Is there a danger down there that we might not fully realize?

PICKENS: I don't -- I don't think so.

I mean, we know we have methane gas in the Gulf of Mexico, but, my gosh, you know, if we're going to, you know, throw up our hands on everything, then just forget it. Let's just import oil from the enemy. Maybe that's a better solution.

Now, I'm being facetious when I say that, because, no, we need to get on our own resources in the United States. We're the largest natural gas reserves in the world, 4,000 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. And it is on the continental United States. That can certainly be used.

But we still don't focus on that.

ROBERTS: Yes.

PICKENS: It's incredible to me that we have gone 40 years with no energy plan.

And if you look at the poll in "The New York Times" today, 49 percent said they wanted to have an energy plan, and they had concerns about security for the United States -- 28 percent said they had environmental issues.

So, all at once, well, energy has moved ahead of the environmental concerns.

ROBERTS: T. Boone Pickens, good to catch up with you tonight. Thanks so much for taking the time.

PICKENS: Thank you, John.

ROBERTS: Still ahead: A Nebraska town cracks down on illegal immigrants, but will its tough new law hold up in court? That story is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Tonight, the immigration battle moves to of all places Nebraska. Angered by an influx of Hispanic workers competing for local meat packing jobs, voters in the town of Fremont have passed a law that bans the hiring of or renting to illegal immigrants. Critics are blasting the law is unconstitutional and the American Civil Liberties Union plans to challenge it in court.

Joining us now is Kris Kobach. He is the author of the Nebraska ordinance and a law professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City. He's also running for Secretary of State in Kansas. And, Kristen Ostrom of One Fremont - One Future, a local group that's opposing the law.

Thanks both for being with us tonight. Kris, let's start with you. We should point out that --

KRISTEN OSTROM, ONE FREMONT - ONE FUTURE: Thank you.

ROBERTS: -- you were instrumental in writing SB 1070, the controversial Arizona immigration law. Now you've written this one, as well. Some people might think wow, this guy's a one-man immigration law machine. Why are you so interested on what goes on in Fremont?

KRIS KOBACH, AUTHOR OF THE NEBRASKA LAW: Well, the citizens of Fremont came to me actually two years ago. A member of the city council said, hey, I understand you helped defend other cities and states in courts around the country. And will you draft for us an ordinance that will stand up to legal challenge? And I said, of course, I would. And then, when the city council deadlocked and didn't pass it, the citizens of Fremont who organized the petition drive and collected more than 4,000 signatures said, hey, will you represent us in court. And I did. And we got a 7-0 victory in the Nebraska Supreme Court. So I've been involved because they requested me to be involved.

ROBERTS: Kristen Ostrom, as we said at the beginning, this bans the hiring of or the renting of property to illegal immigrants. Some people might say on the surface that seems well, maybe reasonable. Tell me why it's not.

KRISTEN OSTROM, ONE FREMONT - ONE FUTURE: Yes. I think on the surface it does seem reasonable. No one likes illegal immigration. No one really supports illegal immigration. No one supports breaking the law. Unfortunately, this particular ordinance is really a failed idea. It's failed in a couple of other cities. The same law that Kris has written in Hazelton, Pennsylvania and Farmers Branch, Texas, they've been tied up in court for four years, spending lots of money on litigation, paying lawyers on both sides to argue the issue. It's not a solution to the immigration problem. Only the federal government can solve our illegal immigration problem. And unfortunately, the city of Fremont is going to just be left with costs and continued conflict.

ROBERTS: Kris, you're hearing the same arguments with this law in Fremont from its detractors as you did with Arizona 1070 that it will unfairly target Hispanics. It will create a hostile environment. It's discrimination of the worst kind. What do you say?

KOBACH: Well, the law on its face says very clearly that it shall not be enforced with any reference to a person's skin color, race, ethnicity. And I would also point out that these laws have been upheld in Valley Park, Missouri, which is in the 8th circuit, the same circuit Nebraska is in. Its circuit upheld the ordinance and they have had a positive effect. Arizona, by the way --

ROBERTS: But, Kris, the law may say that you can't look at anyone based strictly on their race, ethnic background but in practice can you guarantee that?

KOBACH: Yes. With this law you can because the way it works is it just requires every employer to use the e-verify system for every employee they hire, regardless of whether the person was born next door or whether the person is from a foreign country. Similar the rental provisions say every landlord has to get an occupancy permit for every tenant. You cannot exclude people or include people based on their race. So the way it's constructed you can't discriminate.

ROBERTS: Kristen Ostrom, you know, no question has been --

OSTROM: Yes.

ROBERTS: Go ahead, you want to comment on that? OSTROM: Well, I wanted to say that, yes, on the face of it, it doesn't look like it's going to discriminate. Unfortunately, the intent and the outcome are very different. The outcome for the last two years we've had an increase in discrimination both words and actions against our Hispanic citizens, and the same is going to continue if this particular law is enforced.

Our immigration population in Fremont is very, very small. It's four percent of our population. A little more than a thousand people. The estimate of illegal population is even smaller, about one to two percent of our population. So we're talking about a group of about 400 people or so.

ROBERTS: Yes.

OSTROM: And yet, our Hispanic population is about 2,000. Most of our Hispanic population are U.S. citizens and legal immigrants.

ROBERTS: Yes.

OSTROM: And yet, they find a cold shoulder in our community increasingly over the last couple of years and that's going to continue and that's most unfortunate.

ROBERTS: You know, Kris Kobach, as we said, this is going to be challenged in court. Similar laws have been in other states. Some of it struck down. Some of it upheld. Others are still being challenged. But I want to get to the renter's provision of this. This requires people who want to rent a property to get a license. On the application for a license, it says are you a U.S. citizen, yes or no? And if you answer, yes, there's no mechanism by which to check on that. So, will this law really be effective? Could an undocumented immigrant simply check yes and then, you know, be free to do whatever they want?

KOBACH: The person who asserts U.S. citizenship has to sign an affidavit to that effect and under federal law it's a very serious crime to falsely assert U.S. citizenship. So, yes, in theory, people could falsely assert U.S. citizenship and maybe they would never get caught but there's a big penalty for doing that. But that's the most effective way to do it.

OSTROM: Again --

KOBACH: The federal government has created a system for verifying the immigration status of aliens, and so that system is in place in for everybody who's not.

ROBERTS: We are going to keep watching this closely as we head in the law in Arizona and other places. Kristen, I'm sorry. We're out of time, but we'll discuss this further in the future. No question about that.

Kristen Ostrom, Kris Kobach, thanks for being us.

OSTROM: OK. Thank you very much. ROBERTS: Really appreciate it.

KOBACH: My pleasure.

ROBERTS: Well, coming up, the South Carolina Republican primary for governor. It looks like sex scandals, racial slurs and questions about her faith will not prevent Nikki Haley from scoring a historic victory. The "Associated Press" has declared Haley the winner. We're on the scene in South Carolina still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: It is one of the most watched primary elections in the country. Did South Carolina voters make history tonight? That's ahead.

But first, Joe Johns is here with a look at some of the other stories that we're following. Hi, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. Tonight, Mexican drug lords are making direct death threats against American law enforcement officers inside the United States. Speculation about death threats has been widespread for sometime, but this is the first time U.S. officials have confirmed a case that threats began two weeks ago after Arizona police seized marijuana from a drug smuggling operation.

Iran is about to stir the waters off the coast of Gaza by challenging Israel's blockade. Israel's archenemy is sending ships carrying humanitarian aid and relief workers. Last month, Israeli forces killed nine people onboard a Turkish flotilla that tried to break that blockade.

And from the land of the shameless, take a look at this new ad from Spirit Airlines. It shows women in bikinis drenched in tanning oil with the words "check out the oil on our beaches." No surprise. Twitter is on fire with people calling the ad tasteless. The airline says it's just encouraging people to visit Florida and other beach destinations. And you know who made the money on that one. The ad man is laughing all the way to the bank.

ROBERTS: As they always do. Joe, thanks so much.

Coming up, the "Associated Press" projects a winner in South Carolina's Republican race for governor. We'll have the latest results coming up next.

And illegal workers may have a friend in Labor Secretary Hilda Solis. Why her fight for minimum wage is raising eyebrows and it's all caught on camera. The video still ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: History being made tonight in South Carolina. The "Associated Press" projects that state representative Nikki Haley has won the Republican runoff for governor. She becomes her party's first female nominee for that office. The "AP" reports that Haley sailed to victory with more than 60 percent of the vote over her opponent, Congressman Gresham Barrett, but she faced a nasty fight in getting there.

An Indian American and married mother of two, she was accused of having not one, but two extramarital affairs, challenged on her religious beliefs and targeted with an offensive racial slur all from leaders in her own party. Tonight, Haley is now considered the odds on favorite to replace Mark Sanford as the next governor of South Carolina.

CNN's Jim Acosta joins us now live. He's in Columbia, South Carolina, with the very latest. And, Jim, the attacks against Nikki Haley, did they actually play in her favor?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, that's the conventional wisdom down here. We actually heard from a few voters leading up to this primary runoff today that they were disgusted with these attacks against Nikki Haley and that they were very proud of the state representative for standing up to those attacks. So I think that was a part of it. She also has a pretty compelling message down in South Carolina to those conservative tea party voters. S She is very on message when it comes to issues such as fiscal discipline, transparency in government. She wants to bring term limits to South Carolina. All of that plays really well down here in this state. But no question about it, those allegations of marital infidelity, those ethnic slurs that were thrown her way, those questions about her religion, that really turned people off in this state and so in droves they came out in favor of Nikki Haley. And if you look at the latest numbers, 48 percent of the precincts reporting so far, John, according to the "Associated Press," she's got 65 percent of the vote against a sitting congressman. So that's a pretty unbelievable thumping of her opponent down here.

ROBERTS: Yes.

ACOSTA: And just to show you the colorful nature of South Carolina politics, John, you mentioned Mark Sanford who had an embarrassing sex scandal of his own. He just walked into the room here at Nikki Haley's victory party. Meanwhile, we should add on the other side of the victory party, his ex-wife, the former first lady Jenny Sanford is also here, tonight, John.

ROBERTS: Yes. Jenny Sanford was one of the high profile endorsements that Nikki Haley received. Another one was from Sarah Palin. Did they help propel her to this landslide victory?

ACOSTA: They absolutely did. I talked to a couple of political scientists down here and they say, you know, Nikki Haley was starting off with seven percent in the polls and when Sarah Palin's endorsement came in and then Jenny Sanford's, those two endorsements right there put her right into contention. And then the attacks, when those backfired against her adversaries, she really shot to the top of the race in this contest, John.

ROBERTS: All right. History being made tonight there in South Carolina. Jim Acosta, thanks so much.

Just ahead, "LARRY KING LIVE." Larry is with us now. Larry, an amazing program last night. How are you going to top that tonight?

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Ain't going to be easy, John.

ROBERTS: I guess not.

KING: But we do have a mess, don't we? The McChrystal mess. We're going to discuss it with our guests. Some critical remarks, too, made by the general's inner circle, all published in an article that's going to come out Friday. Could cost him his job. The two people we have discussing it are two veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan who disagree completely on the issue.

Kevin Costner is here. He wants to help clean up the gulf. And then a man who almost amputated his own arm join us with his desperate story of survival. Update, too, on our gulf telethon as well.

ROBERTS: All right.

KING: It's all next on "LARRY KING LIVE," John.

ROBERTS: Sounds like a good attempt to topping last night, Larry. We're looking forward to it.

KING: Thank you.

ROBERTS: Well, every worker deserves fair pay but what if they're in this country illegally? A controversial comment by the U.S. Labor Secretary has Mary Matalin and Roland Martin squaring off. Tonight's "M2" just ahead.

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ROBERTS: The story with all the buzz tonight features a guy who is no stranger to headlines. Justin Bieber, the 16-year-old pop star appeared on Larry King's "Disaster in the Gulf" telethon last night and made a heartfelt appeal to his army of fans, a sort of call to arms for a citizen's brigade of reporters.

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JUSTIN BIEBER, SINGER: And to be part of the gulf, send in videos to YouTube, post things on Facebook, tweet, do whatever to let people know what's going on. Thanks for listening. And thanks for doing anything you do.

KING: I like him.

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ROBERTS: What's not to like? Larry's telethon has raised more than $1.8 million for gulf relief efforts so far. Well, it's time for "M2." Mary Matalin and Roland Martin's take on some of the other stories that people are talking about tonight. Guys, what have you got for us?

MARY MATALIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, John, the story that everybody in Louisiana and across the gulf region has been waiting to hear which was that Judge Martin Feldman, our hero, is blocking the moratorium that this president capriciously and arbitrarily put on the whole region, killing jobs and creating more uncertainty in an already very anxious place needless to say.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I do believe though that the Obama administration should be aggressive in terms of ensuring that the additional rigs in the Gulf of Mexico that they are safe and that things are working just fine. But clearly, the White House says they're going to appeal this decision.

MATALIN: Which is completely a political decision, an insensitive one to be short of the people of the gulf, an arbitrary, capricious, completely political.

MARTIN: Well --

MATALIN: The one-month moratorium was rational. We now have ample evidence that BP is uniquely a practitioner of unsafe, unsafe rigs, unsafe caps, unsafe pressure responses.

MARTIN: Well, Mary, one thing that I would have wanted to know from the administration is how many of the existing rigs have been checked for safety? They need to articulate that.

Now, interesting story involving the Labor Secretary Hilda Solis. Check out this PSA and a comment that she made that is stirring controversy.

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HILDA SOLIS, LABOR SECRETARY: If you work hard and you have the right to be paid fairly, I'm U.S. Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis, and it is a serious problem when workers in this country are not being paid every cent they earn. Remember, every worker in America has a right to be paid fairly whether documented or not.

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MARTIN: Obviously, some people are saying what in the heck is she talking about? But, you know, Mary, I have to admit -- look, there are people who are doing a job they should be paid for their job whether they are illegal or not.

MATALIN: Roland, listen to what you just said and think about that.

MARTIN: I actually thought about it.

MATALIN: Think about the taxpayer out there. That is their number one concern this election is the debt. It exceeds terrorism as being our number one concern and we're using taxpayer dollars to tell illegals their rights when our unemployment number is not budging at all. Our debt is increasing.

MARTIN: I get that.

MATALIN: And we're using tax dollars to tell illegals their rights?

MARTIN: No, no, no. It's not a question of just illegals. What you have here and the real problem in this whole issue, frankly, not just the illegal immigrants but the companies, the employers. I think the point is if there are people out there who are working for companies, they should be paying these folks and not simply taking their labor and basically having a 21st century slavery movement.

MATALIN: That's right.

MARTIN: I understand the point.

MATALIN: That's right. They shouldn't be hiring illegals. The illegals are illegal. The employers that hire them are illegal and they should be prosecuted as well. But the United States government using your hard-earned tax dollars to tell illegals their rights? What planet are we on?

MARTIN: Touch it. Two separate issues. That is tax dollars being used but also you do the work you should get paid.

Now, interesting story out of my home state. Of course, all the focus, Mary, on South Carolina. Of course, Alvin Greene, winner of the Democratic primary for U.S. Senate. But down in Texas in Tom DeLay's old district, you have an interesting case here. You have Lakesha (ph) Rogers, 33-years-old, African-American Democrat wins the primary but she's saying impeach President Obama. What's interesting is she's part of the Lyndon LaRouche Youth Movement. I don't know whether they are far left, far right. They're so far they probably circle back and hit both political sides.

MATALIN: The Democratic Party is going to have to institute some sort of whack candidate task force because they're popping up all over the place.

MARTIN: This is -- this is stunning, of course. And so, I don't know who in the heck would support her.

MATALIN: Leave it to Roland to find all the whacky campaigns. We are counting on you to do that going forward, Roland. And, John, we always like to talk about whacky Democrats here. Back to you.

MARTIN: And whacky Republicans, too.

ROBERTS: As long as you get both sides.

"LARRY KING LIVE" starts in just a few minutes' time. But first, a second chance for the gulf's most vulnerable victims and for once some hopeful images out of this terrible story.

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ROBERTS: Finally, tonight's "Punch Line." BP's Tony Hayward shows his love for the water about as far away from the Gulf of Mexico as he can get.

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JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": BP CEO Tony Hayward, I wonder where he was hiding out this weekend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A man who looked a lot like BP chief Tony Hayward sailing Hayward's boat in a yacht race off the coast of England.

STEWART: So, now he's into wind power.

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JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH JIMMY FALLON": Apparently Tony Hayward's yacht is called the "SS Middle Finger." It makes more sense now.

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DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": But in his defense, Tony twittered, he twittered that the oil spill was still his top priority. And I think you know that a guy really cares when he tweets from his yacht.

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JAY LENO, HOST, "THE JAY LENO SHOW": Tony Hayward on a yacht. Where are those Somali pirates when you need them? Huh?

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ROBERTS: And that's our show. "LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up next.

We leave you now with a rare image of hope from the oil spill in the gulf. Brown pelicans, almost 40 of them rescued, restored and released from a wildlife refuge in Texas. It's the biggest release since the spill began and we hope one of many to come.