Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Joran`s Psychiatric Evaluation Released
Aired June 22, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police refuse to make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot even after he described Natalee`s death, admitting he hid the body. Tonight, live, Peru, Van Der Sloot killed again. Another young girl meets him at a resort casino. Just hours later, she`s found brutally beaten, bloody, her neck broken, partially clothed on Van Der Sloot`s hotel room floor. After a massive manhunt, Van Der Sloot captured.
Spine-chilling video of Van Der Sloot with 21-year-old Stephany just before she`s found dead. Bloody clothes from the murder found with Van Der Sloot on the run. We learn after beating her to a pulp and breaking her neck, he kicks back with a cup of coffee and Danish just inches from the dead body.
Tonight, inside Castro Castro, the most notorious prison in Peru, and inside Van Der Sloot`s private cell, the jail barring us from the rest of the prison. Van Der Sloot`s new nickname, "psychopath."
Bombshell tonight. Van Der Sloot`s shocking psych evaluation just released revealing Van Der Sloot has no patience, provokes (ph) violence against women, dominates the opposite sex, and is capable of murder. The ex-girlfriend breaks her silence, saying Van Der Sloot a master of deception, changing stories and covering up and says it could have been her dead. Reports Van Der Sloot high on pot and loaded on 10 Pisco (ph) sours and whiskey cocktails the night of Stephany`s murder.
And in a twist, Van Der Sloot says, I was tricked. That`s right, judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot now claims he was framed by Peruvian police, forced into a confession. And tonight, Van Der Sloot`s mother breaks her silence, claiming he was about to enter a psych ward, insisting Van Der Sloot`s mentally ill and depressed.
Tonight, Van Der Sloot in isolation, angling a free trip home to Aruba in exchange for the location of Natalee`s body. But what about the dead Peruvian girl and the two missing girls from Bogota casinos possibly linked to Van Der Sloot? What, let him go home to Aruba for a home-cooked meal and a "get out of jail free card"? No!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that Joran Van Der Sloot is facing trial in Peru, questions swirling. What`s happening in Aruba?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 22-year-old Dutchman finds himself in familiar legal territory.
GRACE: ... alleged two-time killer...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In each case, Van Der Sloot was the last person known to see the victims alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I realized Stephany had money, but I didn`t know about the cards or the exact amount of money. After killing her, I took the cards and the money."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Van Der Sloot being the main suspect in Holloway`s disappearance, 2005, and has now been formally charged in the death of Stephany Flores.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re just very disappointed that he`s been able to, it appears, you know, do this again, you know, take the life of another young girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the Natalee Holloway case closes to finally being solved?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was arrested twice for the murder of American teenager Natalee Holloway exactly five years ago in Aruba.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been a stressful time for me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When will searches resume? And when will Arubans formally file their request to interview Van Der Sloot?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want justice to be done with the situation with Joran.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s tried to avoid this justice system for a long time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just what, if anything, will Van Der Sloot finally reveal about what happened to Natalee Holloway?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Obviously, you`ve heard him confess before, and then he rescinded that confession.
GRACE: I don`t see Aruba ever doing anything, period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, rural Oregon. A 7-year-old little boy goes to school, walks down the hall to class, never seen begin. How does a 7- year-old boy go missing from his own classroom?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stepmom of missing Oregon child Kyron Horman took a second polygraph test over the weekend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri (ph) is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... seven-year-old Kyron Horman. He was driven to school by his stepmother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is the last person saying that she saw him walking down the hallway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kyron never made it to class after his school science fair June 4th.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kyron`s family are asking the community`s assistance regarding anyone who saw not only Kyron but also who may have seen Terri Horman, his stepmother, and/or the truck that she was driving, a white Ford F-250.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... asking them if they saw Kyron`s stepmother, if they saw the truck that she was driving...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now in the midst of this, we could have cell phone pings from her phone (INAUDIBLE) island where we know divers and rescue teams have been searching.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was seen again by staff members touring the school and looking at the other science projects.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will continue to investigate this case until we have it solved.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re saying that nobody has been cleared, although they are not specifying specific suspects.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, the reason why they are keeping quiet is because they`re obviously working some sort of angle, an angle that we don`t know yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Joran Van Der Sloot`s shocking psych evaluation just released, revealing Van Der Sloot, one, has no patience, two, provokes (ph) violence against women, three, dominates the opposite sex, and four, capable of murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As the wheels of justice turn in Peru, many eyes turn to Aruba.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... wondering if Joran Van Der Sloot will be charged in the death of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway.
GRACE: I`m concerned he will escape and he`ll never be seen again if he makes it back to Aruba.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): And at one time, Patrick, it was just like in the movies. This is what she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s gone away for our family and certainly not for Beth.
VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): So I was talking to her, talking to her, talking to her, and she didn`t say nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) killing (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Arubans say they have to wait to question Van Der Sloot, possibly until the end of the summer. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is going to be a slower process than a faster process.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the holdup?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aruba`s (INAUDIBLE) jurisdiction. It`s like American Samoa dealing with Russia. They`re not a country. Netherlands are the ones who`ve got the jurisdiction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when will the Arubans file their formal request to interview Van Der Sloot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now his own mother seems to be turning on him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says her son was supposed to be committed to a psych hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Joran is sick in his head but wanted no help."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could they be setting up some kind of insanity plea?
GRACE: Not so fast, Van Der Sloot!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Jean Casarez, standing by in Lima, Peru. Jean, what`s the latest?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, after the court appearance yesterday with Joran Van Der Sloot, this is the headline in the newspaper "Trom (ph)" today. As you can see, it says, Joran Van Der Sloot laughs at, makes a mockery of justice. And that would be the Peruvian justice system. As you know, Nancy, yesterday Joran Van Der Sloot refused to give a formal statement to the judge but merely saying that his rights had been violated.
GRACE: Jean, what more have you learned about the prosecutor`s document handed to the judge in court that lays out the prosecution case?
CASAREZ: Well, Nancy, we`ve been continuing to go over this document our sources got for us. This is a prosecution legal document, the most important legal document thus far to come out in the case.
And the injuries to Stephany Flores -- they are much worse than we even imagined. We`ve told you so much about the injuries to her body, from head to toe, but now we are learning that in addition to the many, many bruises on her body, the contusions on her face and on her head, there was a cranial fracture to her skull and there was hemorrhage to her brain.
Her body was so decomposed, it was difficult for the autopsy to take place in order to achieve the results that they wanted, the conclusions that they noted, but they talk about the asphyxia in this report and also traumatic lesions to her neck which led to her death.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what more can you tell me?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we`ve just a look at some crime scene photos. These were obtained exclusively by CBS News "48 Hours." And I got to warn everybody, they are graphic, disturbing videos. They echo what Jean Casarez was saying about the prosecutor`s report about the crime scene.
You see Stephany Flores`s body. You see her hands. You see her bruised hands, a cut on her index finger, also her feet bruised on both the top, bruises visible on her ankle. There is also a shot of a sheet on the floor of that hotel room, large blood stain visible on the sheet. There is also a shot of her blue Converse sneakers. They are splattered in blood.
GRACE: To Victoria Macchi, freelance investigative reporter joining us in Lima, Peru.
VICTORIA MACCHI, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, the photos that we obtained from "48 Hours Mystery" coincide with exactly what we`ve been hearing for the last few weeks. They coincide what Joran said happened. There was a lot of blood. He hit her nose. She started bleeding from her nose. Her head snapped back, hit the wall, fractured her head, caused the brain hemorrhaging. She slumped on the bed. He jumped on her, two hands, tried to strangle her, realized she was still breathing, threw her to the floor, and that`s when he took off his shirt and actually covered her nose and mouth with it.
GRACE: And now to Rupa Mikkilineni, just back from Aruba.
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: We have now learned today that Joran Van Der Sloot made statements to a Dutch newspaper, "De Telegraaf," saying that the FBI lured him to Peru in a botched sting operation. He claims to the newspaper in his interview that the FBI installed somebody named Elton Garcia, a man that contacted him, invited him to this tournament in Peru and lured him there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 22-year-old Dutch playboy has admitted that he killed 21-year-old Stephany Flores in his hotel room.
GRACE: ... five years to the day that Natalee Holloway was reported missing!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot is saying he was coerced into this confession.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a classic psychopath.
GRACE: Another young girl meets Van Der Sloot at a resort casino, just like Holloway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot was seen on surveillance tape leaving a casino with 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot was arrested twice in connection with Natalee Holloway`s disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need justice for our family, for Natalee`s family, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say he remains the prime suspect...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My journey for justice has not ended.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot was never charged in the case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that justice will come.
GRACE: The Dutch embassy! They don`t like the way Van Der Sloot`s portrayed in the U.S. media?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you kill Stephany? Are you innocent?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why you kill her?
GRACE: Well, guess what? We don`t like the way they did nothing to find Natalee Holloway!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Jean Casarez standing by there in Lima, Peru. Jean, I want to go back over what you learned in the psych evaluation.
CASAREZ: Well, Nancy, we were able to get a document. This is probably the most important document thus far in the case. It`s what the prosecutors have now given to the judge. It is their investigation. It includes a psychological analysis.
Here is some brand-new information, Nancy. At the time of the evaluation, he doesn`t show any psychopathic traumas that impair him from perceiving and evaluating reality. He has an average intellectual level, with some potential for higher intellect. He presents traits of anti- social behavior. He can establish superficial interpersonal relationships with ease, indifferent when it comes to others` well-being, and with a capacity to maintain a fraudulent social lifestyle.
Nancy, there`s more, but that`s a little clip right there from this document.
GRACE: This after we learn that Joran Van Der Sloot goes in front of a judge and says he was framed. Jean, I still don`t quite understand how he says police tricked him. What was the trick they used to get him to confess to murder?
CASAREZ: Well, this is what his attorney told us, that an attorney sat by his side, but that attorney was not representing his interests but the interests of the police and the prosecutors, that he was a buddy. So you see a tricking that could be alleged there. "De Telegraaf" out of the Netherlands is reporting that Joran Van Der Sloot said he was made a promise that if he would confess, that he would get a trip back to Holland.
GRACE: Joining us also there in Lima, Victoria Macchi, freelance investigative reporter. Victoria, I understand that you have news about that shirt. Liz, let`s see the bloody shirt that was found. Now, this was the shirt, I believe, taken off Joran Van Der Sloot while he was on the run to Chile. What did you learn, Victoria?
MACCHI: Nancy, I just got finished talking with the head of the homicide division here in the Peruvian national police, and he said that Joran actually had -- he had put the shirt back on Stephany after he killed her, the exact same shirt that he killed -- that he suffocated, smothered her with, he then put on her body because he thought it would be easier to transport her, which was his plan at one time, to put her in a suitcase and transport her, with the shirt on her already.
GRACE: To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, joining us out of LA. Can you imagine? Just try to get this mental imagery of the girl lying on the floor dead, her neck broken, her eye dangling out of the socket, the whole room covered in blood, and he`s trying to put her dead limbs back into a long-sleeved shirt?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Because he doesn`t care. This is a cold-hearted psychopath. He does not care about anybody but himself. And that report is very revealing that he can only have superficial relationships. He seems to fit point by point a sociopath, psychopath.
GRACE: To Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of LA. Dr. Oliver, say within 30 minutes to an hour after the murder, what would he encounter trying to put clothes onto her dead body?
HOWARD OLIVER, FORMER DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: She would be -- still be very limber. He shouldn`t have any problem, other than dead weight. He`s a pretty large individual. He shouldn`t encounter any problem dressing her limbs or picking her up.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Michael Griffith, Raymond Giudice, Doug Burns. Michael Griffith, how will this affect what happens at trial, that he was trying to force the dead girl`s body into clothing?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, I mean, if he pleads guilty, it`s certainly not going to be helpful. But I said previously that if he tries to overturn this confession, it`s going to be viewed as obstructive. If he cooperates, he may get a better deal, Nancy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot broke down in tears when he made the confession in front of a prosecutor and a defense attorney.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says Flores found something on his laptop tying him to Natalee Holloway`s disappearance. Then cops say he went into a rage and beat her to death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot now says he tricked into confessing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there evidence on his computer that could now bring justice for the Holloway family?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I didn`t want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."
"I was explaining to her that five years ago, I was accused in the case of a missing girl."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot`s mother, Anita, says he`s mentally ill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "All of a sudden, she hit me. I don`t know why."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says her son was supposed to be committed to a psych hospital but fled instead to Peru.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Then I threw her to the floor, but she was still breathing. So I took the shirt I was still wearing and put it on her face, pressing."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said her son suffered severe psychological problems.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I can`t remember how much time, but she stopped breathing, and I think that`s how I killed her."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We also learn tonight that Joran Van Der Sloot`s mother and ex-girlfriend break their silence.
Out to you, Rupa Mikkilineni. What have we learned?
MIKKILINENI: Right. We`ve learned that his high school sweetheart has spoken to ABC News and broken her silence. She says that she and Joran Van Der Sloot dated when they were 16 years old. She was madly in love. They wrote diaries, poetry together. He was a wonderful person back then. But she broke up with him after she found out he lied. He lied all the time. He cheated on her with other women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was good at being sneaky.
MELODY GRANADILLO, JORAN`S FORMER GIRLFRIEND: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though you knew you had him. You knew he was lying.
GRANADILLO: He would cry. He wouldn`t let me go. If I wanted to go, he`d hold me, very determined that I had to believe him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if you caught him in it, he would double down and be even more serious about the story, right?
GRANADILLO: He would always tell me, Melody, a relationship is built on trust. You have to trust me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you explain it to yourself?
GRANADILLO: I still don`t get it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the hardest thing for you to deal with emotionally in this situation?
GRANADILLO: To see him change the way he did and become the person he is. I know him differently, you know? He was a caring person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Melody Granadillo on ABC`s "20/20" describing her relationship with Joran Van Der Sloot, now sitting in a Peruvian jail cell angling a free trip home to Aruba.
Out to the lines. Sharon in Michigan. Hi, Sharon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I had a theory I wanted to run by you, and a question to explain why. The question is, I wanted to know if they checked Joran`s whole body for scratches since Stephany had DNA under her nails. And the reason is I saw the diagram and description of the wounds that Stephany had on her body. She had severe bruises on her knees and the top of her feet, and she also had a sanitary napkin on and no pants on. I was wondering if he was trying to have sex with her or maybe rape her. When he found out she was wearing a sanitary napkin, did he try to have oral sex with her, pushing her down on her knees, and that`s when the severe beating started on her face and breaking her neck?
GRACE: What about it, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Well, he said during his confession that he unclothed her after he killed her and he`s not -- he didn`t know why. And in regard to anything else, I think it`s speculation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He will fight his murder confession. His attorney says he`ll argue Van Der Sloot`s confession was coerced.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At the end of an intense 10-hour long interrogation.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: A confession in a high-profile killing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He admitted to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway missing off her high school senior trip.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Peruvian media are speculating, quote, "This killing was premeditated because it happened on the fifth anniversary of Natalee Holloway`s disappearance."
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: With all this interest in the Natalee Holloway case that set him off.
The Peruvian authorities are working very closely with the Aruban prosecutors to help them determine what kind of information was on that laptop taken from the crime scene.
GRACE: Aruba police refused to make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot.
PATRICK VAN DER EEM, POSED AS JORAN VAN DER SLOOT`S FRIEND (Through Translator): Did you try to resuscitate her?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, SUSPECT IN THE DEATH OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE (Through Translator): I tried everything. I even lifted her up.
GRACE: Even after high-tech surveillance catches him describing Natalee`s death repeatedly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He never wants to take responsibility for what he`s done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He does have a bargaining chip. I mean the Holloway family desperately wants to know what precisely happened to the daughter.
MIKKILINENI: Now allegedly that laptop had information possibly about Natalee Holloway.
GRACE: Suddenly Aruba says it may start additional searches for Natalee Holloway`s body. I`ll believe it when I see it.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, Jean Casarez standing by live in Lima.
Jean, give me a recap.
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, now officially the judge has the investigation in this case. He will be the fact-finder. It is his duty to interview witness witnesses, to look for the forensic and other testings that come back.
You know, of note, there were three other defendants in this case. These are the young men that according to prosecutors helped transport Joran Van Der Sloot to the border and into Chile.
Two of them are brothers, in fact, and the judge is also responsible for their cases. And they`re (INAUDIBLE), which is where they have to give formal statements to the judge. That is set for Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of this week.
GRACE: Jean, what more did you learn about the exam?
CASAREZ: The condition of the body was far worse than what we had thought. In fact, the notes say that the autopsy was difficult to perform, that the body was in such a state of decomposition.
But through this they were able determine when she died, how long the body had been decomposing. But they were able to surmount the injuries head to toe. But the worst had to be the fracture to the skull and all of the cranial injuries in total.
GRACE: Straight out to Victoria Macchi, freelance investigative reporter joining us in Lima, Peru.
Victoria, what more can you tell me?
VICTORIA MACCHI, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, ON LOCATION AT JUSTICE PALACE IN LIMA, PERU: The crime scene photos are exactly what Joran and police have been saying happened all along. We see Stephany`s body and there is a tremendous amount of blood. The photos are gruesome.
We see Stephany`s body on the floor, her arms and legs -- her left hand, her left side, her arms and legs are facing the wall to the bathroom and there is a tremendous amount of blood.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what does this mean to the mother and the girlfriend? What do we know?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Joran Van Der Sloot`s mother, Anita, has given an interview to Dutch television. The picture you see of her is actually from ABC`s "Good Morning America."
She said that she is not going to visit her son down there in Peru. She said that she is keeping her distance.
And you`ll remember earlier Anita Van Der Sloot told "De Telegraaf" that her son was about to be committed to a mental hospital before he fled to Peru. She also said that she believes her son may have killed Stephany Flores.
GRACE: Rupa Mikkilineni standing by. Rupa, weigh in.
MIKKILINENI: Van Der Sloot has told the Dutch newspaper "De Telegraaf" that he has received marriage proposals from women in Peru. Not only marriage proposals but some of them claim that they want to bear his baby.
GRACE: To Clark Goldband, standing by the telestrator. I want to focus on how he managed to lure young women. Now we know he meets them in casinos. We know that he was in the -- or trying to enter the Thai sex trade by propositioning or recruiting young girls to become hookers in Thailand.
What do you know, Clark?
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, you know we`ve been sifting through what we believe to be Van Der Sloot`s YouTube page and these next few entries we found very interesting.
In fact, right off the bat here, Van Der Sloot solicits people who need help playing poker. He says he doesn`t have a job. He considers himself a professional poker player, he`s been playing before the craze, and if you want any help feel free to contact him.
So we see this theme also online. We advance on to the next screen --
GRACE: Wait a minute. Did that just say, I give poker lessons? Like I`m going to take a poker lesson from Joran Van Der Sloot?
GOLDBAND: It sure did. Van Der Sloot advertising on his YouTube profile that he is available to help you with your poker game and he considers himself to be pretty good.
GRACE: What else do you know on YouTube?
GOLDBAND: We advance on to the next page. We can see that Van Der Sloot says there`s a lesson to be learned in every path you decide to take in life. Maybe more interesting now that he`s charged with this murder.
He says, "I am sure that you need to stand up for what you believe in and you can always learn from what happens."
And, Nancy, also listed a pool of hobbies and music and sports and such and, of course if we advance on to the next slide, guys, we will see that Van Der Sloot says, in addition to music, soccer, tennis, TV, he also likes nightlife and traveling.
GRACE: Where is the part how he -- where he describes if he were an animal he would be a snake?
GOLDBAND: Yes. Yes, Nancy, he does describe on YouTube that if he could be any animal he would be a snake. However, his ultimate goal in life according to his profile that he wants to become a strong lion.
GRACE: OK. Michael Griffith, Raymond Giudice, Atlanta, Doug Burns, New York.
Ray, you know in America that would not come in at trial. In Peru there is a panel of three judges. They have everything. How would you like your client in front of the judge saying if I could be anything in the world, it would be a snake.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you know, when you try a case just to the bench, meaning just to the judge, judges have a much looser rule about evidence. They say, oh, don`t worry, I can filter through what`s important and what`s prejudicial.
This is going to be a big problem for -- for Joran, advantage to the prosecution on the three-judge panel.
GRACE: What about it, Doug Burns?
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, let me address this thing about the confession which is much ado about nothing. They are not, repeat, not going to need his confession to convict him in my opinion.
The forensic and other blood and fiber evidence is going to do him in. And as Raymond points out, trying the matter to three judges I think -- I just think, Nancy -- that they`re going to know that he confessed. OK?
GRACE: And another problem with the confession, Michael Griffith -- you`ve handled cases in Peru -- is he makes a confession. He keeps throwing in basically, I couldn`t help myself, I was in a fit of anger, knowing that that would help him in Peru.
But then he screws it all up by going in front much of the judge, refusing to make a statement except to claim police -- that there`s a police conspiracy. They forced him, tricked him into the confession and he recants.
See, it was one step forward, three steps back, Michael Griffith.
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via phone): Nancy, police all over the world trick suspects into confession.
GRACE: Oh, boo-hoo.
(LAUGHTER)
GRIFFITH: In Peru, though, you get credit for not being obstructive and letting the judge give you a shot. They`ve got his confession -- they`ve got his video. They`ve got his blood. They`ve got his statement to the hotel clerk about this girl upstairs is sleeping. He fled to Chile.
They have all they need and for his Facebook, he won`t be doing much traveling but he`s probably going to be a very good poker player because he`s going to have 15 or 20 years to practice it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Joran is a stone cold killer.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Growing up in Aruba Van Der Sloot led a relatively well-off life. He excelled in sports, liked to gamble, and always seemed to be around women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sociopaths are manipulative. They can be charming.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On a YouTube page believed to be written by Van Der Sloot, he says if he had to describe himself as an animal, he would be a snake. But one day wants to be a lion.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Van Der Sloot kills again.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Somebody who reportedly has lied time and time again.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot.
GRACE: Another young girl, just 21, meets Van Der Sloot at a resort/casino.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Confessed to the killing of 21-year-old Stephany Flores.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Back to Jean Casarez standing by live in Lima, Peru.
Jean, you are the one that obtained the prosecution`s case that they laid out in writing and gave to the judge. What more have you learned about that -- from that document?
CASAREZ: Well, there is more on the psychological exam, Nancy. It says, quote, "Deficient social conscience, which can be seen when he breaks the rules and takes part in actions that affect others` rights, looking only to satisfy himself. He is constantly looking for new experiences that allow him to feel stimulated."
GRACE: To Tom Shamshak, former police chief, private investigator, instructor at Boston University. How does that weigh into your theory of the case, Tom, always looking for a new high?
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Good evening, Nancy.
Well, people that are pathological, people that are cold hearted psychopaths pursue this kind of self-gratification, immediate gratification at the expense of others. They violate others` territory and I`m not surprised that the psychological is emerging now.
It certainly is consistent with the behavior that we have seen in the path and what you`ve reported on repeatedly about his behavior, being captured on the cameras.
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Lillian Glass?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT, AUTHOR OF "TOXIC PEOPLE": Well, absolutely. And the main thing with him is that you see he does what he wants because he has no feelings. He`s a sociopath. He`s a psychopath.
So he has to get those feelings from doing things that are out of the realm of what`s normal in society.
GRACE: Raymond Giudice, how will the defense use this in the Peruvian justice system?
GIUDICE: You know, Nancy, I think he and his lawyers have just got to take a tack here. Either they`re going to fight this all the way and play poker or, as the other lawyers pointed out, they`re going to re-create, confess, be contrite and take the plea deal.
I think the psychopathic poker player is coming out in him and he`s going to fight this all the way. I don`t think there`ll be any easy, short-term plea deal in this case.
GRACE: You know what, Ray, I think you`re right. But to you, Doug Burns, this is not the American system. You can`t play a crap game and take it to a jury. You`re going to have three judges.
My guess is three old white guys that have seen it all. They know about the confession. They know about Natalee Holloway. They know about him trying to blame police, tricking him into -- they`re going to know everything that we know plus a lot.
BURNS: I`m smiling because, A, you`re 100 percent right. We`re not in the United States of America justice system.
GRACE: You don`t roll the dice and throw it in front of three judges.
BURNS: B, you want to talk about a poker game. This man is holding a one, a three, a five, a six, and an eight. OK? He has no hand to play. Zero.
And by the way, one other important point that I wanted to introduce, and I was really glad to see that the president of Peru, and Michael might address this, went on record as saying he is not granting extradition under any circumstances until the case is tried in Peru.
GRACE: What about it, Griffith?
GRIFFITH: Doug is absolutely right. The U.S. has got to first have extradition and also for the reason that Natalee Holloway was an American citizen and due to (INAUDIBLE) called the passive personality principle, we`ve got jurisdiction over anyone who kills an American citizen.
Nancy, Aruba had their chance twice. They dropped the ball and now Lurigancho is coming and he`d better plead guilty. He`s going to be a terrific poker player after 20 years if he lives in Lurigancho.
GRACE: And very quickly, Victoria Macchi, freelance investigative reporter there in Lima, standing by along with Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session."
Victoria, the whole story you`re reporting tonight that he tried to lift the dead girl`s body and force clothing onto her bloody body with her neck broken and her eye hanging from the socket, covered in blood, what was his purpose? I still don`t understand why he was trying to dress her.
MACCHI: The way that the homicide -- the chief of homicide explained it to me was that he was trying to put all of the evidence, everything, while he was cleaning up everything. He was using the mattress cover, the sheets and everything to clean up the blood.
He was trying to get everything together to then dispose of the body and the objects that he`d used to clean up including that beige shirt and to throw all of that out along with Stephany.
GRACE: Everybody, we are switching gears in the search for a 7-year- old little boy reportedly goes missing out of his own classroom.
Straight out to Kevin Miller, investigative reporter. Kevin, what do you know?
KEVIN MILLER, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Nancy, right now the search continues and Kyron`s mom made an emotional plea trying to get people to really enlisted in this case and to bring her little boy home.
Investigators are still looking at questionnaires they gave out on Friday, searching for people, whether it`s teachers, staff or fellow students, that can aid in the search for missing Kyron.
GRACE: Well, what I don`t understand, Marc Klaas, they`re speaking now -- with us is Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. We`re talking about a 7-year-old little boy. His stepmother says she walks him to school, walks him into the school that morning. There`s a science fair going on.
They looked at various exhibits. She sees him walk to his class. She leaves. He`s never seen again.
Marc Klaas, is this her second polygraph or her first?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, she`s been asked to take a second polygraph. There`s a new flyer out that has her picture on it. It has a picture of the vehicle that she was driving and they`re asking very pointed questions to others in the school as to whether or not they saw the stepmother.
Now I`ve gone over this timeline and I`ve told you that I have problems with it and I think I`ve pin-pointed something, Nancy, that`s really quite problematic. And I found this from multiple sources.
At 8:45 a.m., when the bell rang, his stepmom walked him down the hall close to his class. Kyron told her, "I`m going back to the classroom, mom," and she waves to him and left.
Well, if she was walking with him and they were very close to the classroom, who was she waving at? That`s the question I have. And if in fact she was very close to the classroom and turned and walked away, did she leave the building before he got to the classroom and there was a split second when somebody might have come out of the hall -- come out of the -- some place and grabbed him?
GRACE: Marc, Marc, Marc. You`re a crime victim. Your daughter was taken from the home. Polly. And she was murdered. Since that time, all you have done is try to find missing children, analyze these cases.
Marc, do you really believe some nefarious phantom in those few moments emerged and t the child?
KLAAS: The only two possibilities I see are involvement by the stepmom and the very -- the very rare possibility that some local pedophile was in position to do something in the very brief moment when nobody else was looking. I don`t see anything else as being a possibility here.
GRACE: The tip line, 503-261-2847, a $25,000 reward. With us Kevin Miller and Marc Klaas.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: A 7-year-old boy goes missing from his own school. His own classroom? It doesn`t make sense.
Natisha Lance, what can you tell me about the stepmother`s report to police? What pings on her cell phone have reportedly shown and her twittering?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, as Marc was saying, the stepmother`s timeline has been called into question. According to a local newspaper, according to an unnamed source, the stepmother was -- they believe, based on her cell phone -- around Sauvie Island which is about six miles away from the school, this is where investigators were searching very fervently last week.
We are not clear at this point, according to investigators, if they are done searching that area, but they have been searching that area pretty extensively.
Now also, Nancy, according to the stepmother`s Facebook page, some people have scrutinized her because within six days time she had put on her Facebook page that she was going to the gym and not until the sixth day did she put a photograph up of Kyron.
GRACE: What does that say to you, Lillian Glass?
GLASS: It says a lot, Nancy. Because when somebody has a missing child that they love, they`ll do anything. They`ll scream from the highest mountain to find that child. And the fact that she waited so long, that`s a huge red flag.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Explain the significance of the cell phone pings.
KLAAS: Well, the significance of the cell phone pings is very clear, that she was out at this Sauvie Island, which really is a very remote location, shortly after her son disappeared and she obviously has no explanation for having been out there.
You really can`t run and hide in this day and age. They are going to be able to follow you electronically regardless of what you do.
GRACE: What about it, Kevin Miller?
MILLER: Well, that is the big trouble, Nancy, that the police, apparently according to numerous reports both in and outside the press, that her story doesn`t jive with her whereabouts and they want that confirmation and they want to take a look at the second polygraph.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Neil Petsche, 21, Lena, Illinois, killed Iraq. Awarded the Combat Action ribbon, National Defense Service medal, Global War on Terrorism Service medal. An Eagle Scout. And third degree Knights of Columbus.
Loved paintball, collecting movies, swimming, Shakespeare, favorite band, Metallica. Favorite actors, Bruce Willis, Chuck Norris and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Leaves behind parents Carol and David, a Vietnam vet. Grandfather Marvin, a World War II vet. Sisters Jolene and Cheryl, brother Steven.
Neil Petsche, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
