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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Van Der Sloot Family Fights Back
Aired June 23, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, chaos in Peru, as the Van Der Sloot family fights back.
Joran`s mom breaks her silence declaring my son`s not a monster. She`s claiming bipolar disorder. But Joran is claiming the FBI and Peruvian police screaming out this was all a setup.
Now a private eye hired by the Van Der Sloot family comes out swinging, calling this a lynch mob mentality. Tonight I go one-on-one with him and put him in the hot seat.
And fast-breaking news in the Lawrence Taylor rape case. The hall of fame football player has now been indicted for rape. Cops say he had sex with an underage prostitute.
How much time could L.T. spend behind bars?
Plus (INAUDIBLE) new developments in the frantic search for adorable little Kyron Horman. The 7-year-old boy banished from inside his school hallway. Tonight could a mystery man snapped in a science fair photo crack this case?
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight an escalating war of words as team Van Der Sloot furiously fights back. Joran points the finger at Peruvian police charging they engaged in misconduct.
Joran says cops did not have a proper warrant when they arrested him in Chile for murder. And Joran says there was an unofficial translator who confused him when he signed a damning confession admitting that he beat, strangled and smothered 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez with the shirt right off his back.
The one you`re looking at right there.
Tonight, Joran also making a shocking claim. He says an attorney appointed to him is the girlfriend of a Peruvian cop working on his case.
Plus, Joran Van Der Sloot`s mom is vigorously defending her jailed son, insisting Joran is not a monster. Anita Van Der Sloot tells a Dutch TV station she is living a nightmare, praying that this is all a bad movie.
Sorry, mom, it`s not just a bad movie.
Nevertheless, she calls Joran a gentle, loving boy, who should be a psychiatric patient. She says Joran suffered from extreme stress after being falsely accused in the Natalee Holloway case. She says Joran did not kill Natalee Holloway. That Natalee probably ran away.
Really?
Now Anita is scared to death that her son will be murdered in the notorious Castro Castro prison in Peru.
Plus we have a very special guest tonight on ISSUES. Joran`s private eye. Les Levine was hired by the Van Der Sloot family back in 2005 to prove Joran`s innocence. Tonight he calls this murder investigation a witch hunt spurned by a lynch mob mentality.
Well, I tell you what, Les, you`re going on the hot seat tonight.
Who is Joran Van Der Sloot? Is he a mentally ill boy with a bull`s eye on his back or is he a cold-blooded killer, which he admitted to when he signed on that dotted line confessing to a vicious murder?
I want to hear what you think at home. Give me a holler, 1-877-JVM- SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel. But first to Jean Casarez, correspondent with "In Session," who is live smack in the middle of the action in Peru where there was yet another court hearing in this case today.
Jean, what is the very latest?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Well, we got the complaint this afternoon, thanks to Panamericana, the CNN affiliate here in Lima. And Joran Van Der Sloot has filed a misconduct complaint against the Peruvian National Police saying that they violated his rights, that they didn`t have an arresting warrant when he was arrested initially.
Number two, that the attorney that sat next to him during the interrogation was the girlfriend of a police officer in the police department. And number three, that they took his computer without any search warrant or judicial order as it said in Lima whatsoever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you bring me right to my big issue tonight, Jean. Victim mentality? Is Joran having a big old pity party?
Look at him here. You`re going to see him in a second. There he is. Rolling his eyes. Look at that expression. Oh, how martyred he feels.
Oftentimes criminals view themselves as the victim. They feel like they have been wronged. In their twisted minds that justifies whatever the heck they want to do.
This dovetails with our breaking news today, Joran`s new complaint that he`s been improperly treated, arrested without a warrant, tricked into signing a confession.
Lisa Bloom, do you think Joran has a victim mentality? For example, he said well, they didn`t have a proper warrant. Why do they need a proper warrant to arrest him? I mean, would the TV show "Cops" exist if you had to get a warrant for every person you tracked down and arrested?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, Jane, listen to his logic, boo-hoo, hoo, hoo. I was falsely accused of murdering Natalee Holloway so that caused me to murder another woman five years r on exactly the same day?
I mean, are you kidding me? The logic is unbelievable. This guy has. I think they`ve got him cold. They`ve got the forensic evidence, they`ve got the video. This is just his last-ditch effort to try to save himself.
And P.S., all this talking that he`s doing to the media, it`s got to be driving his attorney nuts.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, his attorney wants off the case badly. And I have to go back to Jean Casarez --
BLOOM: That`s probably why.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- for a question that`s been troubling me. This attorney of his says this is making his life a living hell. He`s very unpopular in Peru for defending this guy who allegedly killed the daughter of a prominent Peruvian who ran for public office.
And yet even though he apparently wanted off the case, is he still the same guy filing all these very creative motions, Jean?
CASAREZ: He`s the very same person that`s on the case. He told us he wanted off. But yet now he is zealously defending his client with all of these motions. So a contradiction. I guess the question is, what`s the motivation to stay on the case?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This case has become so very sensationalized. We`re focusing on Joran and on Natalee. And we need to remember the victim here.
A picture tells a thousand words. I have to warn you, this is one gruesome photo. Here is Stephany Flores` hand obtained by CBS. And it is covered in blood and it is badly bruised. And it looks like, as we zoom in there, she is trying to defend herself.
Do you see that? Yes, this doesn`t look, Mike Brooks, like Joran snapped and hit her one time the way he insisted in his original confession. There are other photos we can`t show you where her body is completely covered in bruises, Mike.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, you`re absolutely right, Jane. And the fact that --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you there, Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: I`m here. I`m here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I mean this is -
BROOKS: Can you hear me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable, these photos. They`re gruesome. We only showed you one.
BROOKS: No, no, absolutely. I mean I thought --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, guess what? I`m going to go to -- oh, you got him? OK, go ahead, Mike.
BROOKS: The mike`s on, I know that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
BROOKS: I have to agree with you, Jane. You know the fact that they were able to use luminol and found blood all over that room. In the bathroom, in the hallway. No, it was more than just, you know, an elbow to the nose. And a smothering like he said. It was a lot more than that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Julie in Massachusetts, your question or thought?
JULIE, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey.
JULIE: My question is, have they explained to him that he was videotaped coming in and out of that room and it was only possible for him to do this heinous crime? And the other question I have is, do we know if the FBI or Aruban authorities ever went to his parents` property to search for Natalee`s remains?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m going to go to Les Levine who is Van Der Sloot`s private investigator.
You worked the Holloway case. And you know this guy. You have actually, I believe, met Joran. I want to get your reaction, first of all, to the question that was being asked by the caller about the search of the home. But also how you described this young man right here. Les?
LES LEVINE, LES LEVINE INVESTIGATIONS, VAN DER SLOOT PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, HOLLOWAY CASE: Well, I`m not here -- first of all, let me make it clear, I`m not here to defend Joran in the Peruvian case. Let the evidence speak for itself. If in fact he did this, then he should be punished for it.
My position is very strongly that there is a lynch mob mentality out there now who wants to see him punished for a crime that took place in Aruba, that the FBI, the Aruban authorities, the military, God knows how many private search parties and private individuals were not able to put enough evidence together to even charge him.
And this lynch mob mentality will prevent him from getting a fair trial based upon just what the evidence is. Probably anywhere in the world including the United States.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Les --
LEVINE: If this --
(CROSSTALK)
LEVINE: If this evidence proves that he committed this deed, and took this poor girl`s life, then let him pay for it. But let`s not --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Les, look, come on.
BLOOM: But it his own fault. It`s his own fault that people attack him for what happened in Aruba. It`s true, he was never charged. But he said inconsistent statements. He said he took her back to the hotel, then he said he left Natalee Holloway on the beach. Then admitted that he killed her and dumped her body in the bay.
So of course he`s generated the mentality against him, that`s angry and hostile for what he is accused of doing.
LEVINE: Yes, but you -- everybody admits to the fact that this is a pathological liar. So what people want to do is they want to pick and choose parts of the story which fit into their conception of what he is and use that and say well, that part of it is true --
BLOOM: But what kind of person would tell these --
LEVINE: -- and the rest of it`s not.
BLOOM: -- stories to begin with?
LEVINE: Pardon me?
BLOOM: What kind of person would tell these stories to begin with, I dumped her body in the water?
LEVINE: The Joran Van Der Sloot that exists today and existed two years ago is not the Joran Van Der Sloot that we met five years ago.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me just say this. From the very night Natalee went missing, he started lying. He told everyone that he dropped her off at the hotel. And as a result of that, several security guards were arrested.
BLOOM: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He could care less if they had gone down for Natalee Holloway`s disappearance. He`s destroying lives left and right. Sadly, he`s also destroying his own family`s life as he proceeds to leave wreckage around the globe.
But Les, we`re not done with you. You want to answer that?
LEVINE: I don`t take exception to what you`re saying, that he`s his own worst enemy. But I`m only saying very simply that with all the effort and all energy that was put into trying to convict him in Aruba, or even charge him, there wasn`t enough evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, --
LEVINE: And the --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what, there`s a lot more to the story which we`ll get to on the other side of the break.
His powerful father, his powerful father`s connections to people in law enforcement in Aruba.
LEVINE: That -- you see that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There are conspiracy theories --
LEVINE: That`s part of the --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But we`ll get to it on the other side of the break. And we want to take your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Plus we`re also talking Kyron Horman tonight. The adorable little boy abducted from inside his school.
Tonight, did a picture of this little boy unknowingly catch a glimpse of a suspect?
But first we go back to Peru, what happened inside Joran`s blood- soaked hotel room.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is a cold-blooded killer. He`s a slick guy.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": But the sociopath, the MO is to con people out of sex and money. You can see this with Joran.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s completely narcissistic. It`s all about him.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE MOTHER: So the suspect who took my daughter from Carlos & Charlie`s on the last night of her senior trip was the last to be seen with her alive and who offered at least a dozen different versions of what they did with her, and who admitted to committing or witnesses sexual assault against her while she was unable to defend herself are now free.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, Joran Van Der Sloot and team Van Der Sloot fired back against Peruvian authorities claiming they have no grounds to keep him in prison because he said they arrested him without a proper warrant.
Plus Joran`s mom goes to bat for her son. Anita Van Der Sloot says Joran is not a monster. He`s a gentle, loving boy who just happens to be a little cuckoo in the head.
We are talking to Les Levine, Van Der Sloot`s private eye who worked on the case and he claims he couldn`t find any evidence that the guy you`re looking at that there, Joran, killed Natalee and he feels right now there is a witch hunt mob mentality -- lynch mob mentality going on vis-a-vis the Stephany Flores Ramirez murder in Peru.
You wanted to respond, Les, because a whole bunch of people on our panel including me are disagreeing with you.
LEVINE: Well, first of all, I could tell you that Paul and Anita Van Der Sloot were fine, upstanding and are fine, upstanding parents until unfortunately Paul died. And he had no more influence over the chief of police or this investigation than perhaps I did.
So that right away, it`s an unfair allegation. And I can tell you that my office there led by Marcela Metro (ph) and John Warner, who`s a retired New York City homicide --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Didn`t Paul, the father, say, hey, son, no body, no case? That was widely reported that he essentially coached his son on how to deal with numerous interrogations, which is one reason he didn`t crack because dad, who was studying to become a judge, and who had a lot of connections in Aruba, said to him, no body, no case.
LEVINE: Dad`s a lawyer. And I think that in most cases it`s difficult to make a homicide case without a body. That doesn`t mean you can`t make it. I mean I`ve lost cases that there was no body. But it`s certainly much more difficult to make the case than it is -- you know, without the body.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Criminal profiler Pat Brown --
LEVINE: So the father -- the father was giving the son legal advice. You can`t blame him for that.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Yes, I can. I can say, if you`re saying these are upstanding citizens, they should be taking their son into the police department and telling him to tell the truth. They should be allowing the police on their property with the dogs to look for any bodies on the property with the dog to look for any bodies on the property.
They should help them every way possible because they know Joran was involved in this and they are backing him instead of helping the victim`s family if they`re such upstanding citizens.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Hold it.
LEVINE: Isn`t that a terrible thing for a father and a mother support their son?
BROWN: It is a terrible thing --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Please.
BROWN: In murder. It`s a terrible thing for a parent to help their son cover up a murder. Yes, you --
LEVINE: You don`t know -- you don`t know --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, guys, one at a time.
LEVINE: You`re talking -- you have no proof that there was a cover- up. None whatsoever.
BROWN: They know their son was involved in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. And they did nothing to encourage him to tell the truth. They helped him cover up --
LEVINE: How do you know the father didn`t say to the son, tell the truth? I mean --
BROWN: Tell him to say it in public. Get the father and mother to say in public there`s something wrong with what our saying is saying. He needs to tell the truth.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s one thing that bugs me.
BROWN: Why not?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have compassion for Anita Van Der Sloot. Who would want to be in her shoes? What a nightmare indeed. But she says she thinks Natalee ran away.
BROWN: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Give me a break. Give me a break. Natalee ran away.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: She also says that Joran might have killed Stephany Ramirez. She said that earlier in the week, that he might have done it. She thinks that`s possible and she`s not going to visit him in prison. So she`s putting out a lot of inconsistent messages this week.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, well --
LEVINE: She`s not going to believe -- she`s going to --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got to bring in Michael Griffith, international law attorney. He`s waiting patiently.
You know, I have to say that I think all the legal maneuvers that Joran and his legal team are doing in Peru are not going to free him. I think they`re going to fry him because there`s no jury system to buy any of this. It`s a three-judge panel.
What do you think, Michael?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, with my firm International Legal Defense Counsel, I`ve defended claims in Peru.
The idea is for him to cooperate because he`s doing nothing right. They`ve got the video, they`ve got his statement to the hotel clerk. Leave the girl alone. They`ve got the blood evidence on his shirt and the consciousness of guilt of him fleeing to Chile.
In Peru, if you cooperate, you`ll get a better deal. He`s doing nothing right.
And Jane, I`ll tell you -- I`ll tell you what he should be doing with the -- what the Holloway family should be doing right now. They can find out where their daughter is. The Department of Justice has an office in our embassy in Peru. They should go to him now and say, look, we`re extraditing you, and after you serve your sentence in Peru, you`re coming back to the states.
By that time with the statements you`ve given to Mr. De Vries, the reporter in that car, with the allegations you made to the Holloways that you know where the daughter is, and with the fact that the Deepak -- the Kalpoe brothers are now about to maybe turn some evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
GRIFFITH: They should say to them, look --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I hear you.
GRIFFITH: Unless you tell us now, we`re going to have a murder case against you when you come back. Let the family know where the body is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More, and also Kyron Horman`s disappearance. New news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLINA FLORES, STEPHANY FLORES` SISTER-IN-LAW: She was a little girl. She just wants -- she just has 21 years old. So it`s impossible that she`s going to fight with him. He is very tall. So impossible.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight Joran Van Der Sloot fights back charging Peruvian authorities with misconduct. Joran says they didn`t have a proper warrant when they arrested him in Chile and didn`t provide a sufficient translator.
He claims he was confused when he signed his confession admitting to beating, strangling and smothering Stephany Flores Ramirez.
Robin in Texas, your question or thought, ma`am?
ROBIN, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Jane. I love your show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey. Thank you.
ROBIN: Has anyone investigated what and where Joran has been on the anniversary date in the past five years? Any girls missing from those times?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that`s an excellent question. And I want to answer the previous caller`s question.
Yes, authorities did go into the Van Der Sloot compound and look for evidence of Natalee`s remains. And they even, I believe, they drilled into some concrete thinking she might be buried there.
Les, do we know? You know Joran Van Der Sloot. Do you know where he has been on these anniversaries of Natalee`s disappearance?
LEVINE: I -- can`t tell you where he has been on every anniversary of Natalee`s disappearance. I mean, I`ve had some limited contact with him over the last two, two and a half years. But I can`t tell you exactly where he may have been. And I don`t think -- and I do believe if there were girls missing, that he had contact with, we certainly would have heard about it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, in an interview set to air on "GMA," Joran`s mom says, quote, "Joran is not a monster. He can be very gentle, but it could be that he has bipolar personality."
I hope he gets help.
You know, unfortunately, Mike Brooks, bipolar did not come up at all in the mental health evaluation that was just released yesterday which found that he has no respect for females, likes to dominate them, and cannot stand to be challenged and is emotionally immature.
So where is the mom going with this bipolar?
BROOKS: No, that`s -- I think she`s -- again, she`s trying to support her son. But she`s reaching. And the psychological evaluation said, Jane, he`s not a psychopath. So he does know right from wrong.
And, you know, the insanity defense is not going to fly in Peru because at the time of this act, he definitely knew right from wrong. Just look at the videotape.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have another big issue tonight.
Secrets can be murder. Did Stephany Flores discover Joran`s toxic secret. Joran`s mom says Joran wrote her a letter saying "Mommy, I love you. I just want to go to Peru, just far away, nobody knows me there," end quote.
Now, if Joran was trying to get away from the stigma of the Natalee Holloway case, and Stephany saw something on his computer connecting him to her disappearance, that could explain his rage.
I wrote a book called "Secrets Could Be Murder."
Secrets suddenly exposed are very common triggers for rage and violence in a slew of crimes.
Pat Brown, I know you disagree with me so I`m going to go to that one on you.
BROWN: OK. Well, I don`t disagree that it is -- that that does cause a lot of crimes. I disagree in this case with Joran because he has a big mouth. I don`t think he minds telling a lot of people who he is.
And I don`t believe that she saw anything on his computer. He`s smart enough to close that computer or have some kind of a password on it. And she doesn`t take her pants off to go look at the computer. And no man says who`s not involved with some kind of sexual assault say, oh, after she was dead I removed her pants and shoes.
Hmm, especially if the pants had no blood on them. So yes, they were removed before she was killed. Why would that be.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I agree that there`s a lot of discrepancies and inconsistencies. But I still think that he didn`t want her to know about his connection to Natalee.
Stay with us, fabulous panel. We`re coming back with more pandemonium in Peru. Plus L.T. indicted on rape.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a stunning new clue in the search for missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman.
But first, "Top of the Block" tonight.
Breaking news that is very, very bad news for ex-pro football player Lawrence Taylor: a New York grand jury made it official today and they slapped him with a rape charge. He will also face a slew of other sexual abuse charges, including patronizing a prostitute.
Now, the charges stem from an alleged sexual encounter with a 16- year-old girl -- that`s right, 1-6 -- last month. Prosecutors say Taylor paid her $300 for sex. Taylor reportedly admitted to that part. But claims he thought the girl was 19.
Lisa Bloom, between the age discrepancy and the allegations that this was a money-for-sex transaction, are prosecutors going to have a tough time proving rape?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No, I don`t think so. I think when your best defense is, "I thought the teenage hooker I was sleeping with was 19," I think you`re in trouble. I think he`s in trouble.
This is a middle-aged married man, a celebrity. And that`s the best he can do? "I thought she was 19 years old?" He still took her to his hotel room, paid her for sex. And the bottom line is, is that ignorance of actual age is no defense in a statutory rape case. If you think she`s 19 but she`s actually 16, you`re still on the hook legally.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She claims that she was coerced into going there. She didn`t want to. But her pimp forced her to and, you know, used his fist to get her there.
BLOOM: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Could that be a factor in this trial?
BLOOM: It should be a factor, Jane. It`s the reality for prostitution in this country and around the world. Let`s not kid ourselves. It`s not like in the movies where it`s glamorous and fun like "Pretty Woman".
The reality is, is that young women like this teenage girl are usually trafficked. And like she says, she was beaten into it. I`m sure that is true because it`s very, very common. It`s not fun; it`s not a great time for them. They`re not doing it for the money. They`re usually doing it because they`re beaten and imprisoned by an older pimp. That`s what she claims and frankly, I believe her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And she was also a runaway of sorts and that`s a classic pattern as well.
I`ve heard reports that say that runaways will be approached by a pimp within 45 minutes of running away, as soon as they get to the bus station or the train station when the pimp can see that they don`t have money to get around and they have nowhere to stay and they offer them food and lodging and the next thing you know they`re sex slaves.
BLOOM: Isn`t that sad.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s really, really sad. We`re going to stay on top of this L.T. story and bring you the very latest.
Of course, he has a history of drug problems as well which could factor in. In his autobiography he wrote about his drug abuse in great detail.
That is tonight`s "Top of the Block".
But we`re going to get back now to breaking news out of Peru. Joran Van Der Sloot saying he shouldn`t be in a Peruvian prison. Why not? He claims he was unfairly arrested. Oh, really?
Joran alleges officers didn`t have a proper warrant when they arrested him in Chile and he claims they didn`t provide him with a proper translator when they told him to sign his confession in Spanish.
We have an amazing expert panel. I want to go to Michael Griffith, who is an international law attorney who has studied the legal system in Peru.
You were saying, Michael, that this is the worst possible strategy for Joran Van Der Sloot. To accuse the chief of detectives of misconduct, when there is no jury system in Peru, when there`s a three- judge panel and all they need is two out of three judges to say, "You`re guilty."
Isn`t he basically infuriating and provoking the entire criminal justice system in Peru, inspiring them to throw the book at him?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY: Jane, I couldn`t agree with you more. He`s really doing nothing right. You know, if he cooperates, as I said before, he could get a lighter sentence.
But let me tell you what his retribution will be. They`re going to send him to Lurigancho prison, and I`ve been in prisons over two dozen countries. This is the worst prison I`ve been in.
I was a lawyer for Billy Hayes for "Midnight Express" and saw Majalah (ph) prison in Turkey. It`s a Ritz-Carlton compared to where this guy is going.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You were saying that they could still somehow use this situation as leverage to get him to tell the truth about Natalee? Summarize that very briefly because that`s important.
GRIFFITH: All right. There`s a principal of law called passive personality principle which means that if you kill an American citizen or injure them anywhere in the world, like in the Clint Harper (ph) case or the Kenyon Barbie (ph) case, that they can be prosecuted in a U.S. court.
Natalee was a U.S. Citizen. We have a Department of Justice office in the Peruvian embassy. We can right now be squeezing their counterpart, the Peruvian counterpart to say we`ll make a deal with them. We`re going to extradite him anyway on the extortion and by the time he comes back, we`ll have the (INAUDIBLE) murder case. If he tells the parents where they are now, we`ll give him a deal on a murder case. That`s what should be happening right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, Joran says he was actually lured to Peru by the FBI so that they could extradite him back to the U.S., sort of what you`re talking about here. Now, we do know the FBI was in the middle of a sting in which Joran allegedly extorted $25,000 from Beth Holloway. Joran claims right after he was wired the money, a man named Garcia invited him to a poker tournament in Lima and he says, "I can`t believe I let myself be lured," end quote.
Tonight Joran`s mom is corroborating that story saying she left Joran -- Joran left her a note saying, quote, "Mommy, I love you. I`m invited to gamble in Peru. I can make money there," end quote.
Now, Mike Brooks, the FBI is not commenting on this claim. But there was an FBI sting that caught Joran on camera taking money in exchange for a promise to reveal the location of Natalee`s body. Is it possible that the feds decided to go one step further and lure him to Peru?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LEGAL ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No. If they were going to get him, they would have worked with their legal attache in the Caribbean and gotten him in Aruba.
But I can tell you Jane, Michael Griffith is absolutely right on target about this because I`ve been involved in a rendition of people back from the United State where the United States has been victims of -- U.S. citizens have been victims of terrorism.
But the FBI does have a legal attache, the police liaison in Santiago, Chile that covers Peru. So I can guarantee you that right now they are already talking to the Peruvians there at the embassy on, ok, if this guy gets out, we possibly can bring him back here to the United States. But don`t look for him to get out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fantastic panel --
BLOOM: And if the FBI did lure him to Peru, good for them. That`s good detective work --
(CROSS TALKING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well --
BROOKS: But they wouldn`t have let him go to Chile if they had lured him to Peru.
(CROSS TALKING)
BLOOM: There`s nothing wrong with that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unfortunately, when they lured him to Peru, what ended up happening is an innocent young woman ended up dying a very violent death.
(CROSS TALKING)
BLOOM: That`s not the FBI`s fault. They didn`t lure him to kill someone.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No.
BROOKS: No.
(CROSS TALKING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But there is something called the law of unintended consequences. And that`s why this is such a dangerous game to be dealing with a psycho like this.
You`re going to get the last word, Les Levine, very quickly.
LES LEVINE, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR ON NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE: The only thing I`d like to say is I hope they try him on the facts of this case, and not try him on a case that they think that he did something that they can`t prove. If he`s found guilty in Peru for committing this crime, he should be punished accordingly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You have the last word. And there`s plenty of evidence that could possibly convict him.
Fantastic panel thank you so much.
Coming up next: little Kyron Horman vanished three weeks ago. Tonight we are tracking him down and we are taking your calls.
New developments you will not believe. We`ll tell you about them in a moment.
1-877-JVM-SAYS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. JASON GATES, MULTNOMAH COUNTY, SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Kyron, we`re going to bring you home, buddy. Nothing is more important to your family, your friends, or to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAINE HORMAN, KYRON`S FATHER: We would like to thank the media. If it was not for you showing Kyron on every newscast, printing his story in the papers, his face would not be known to everyone. People from around the nation have seen his picture. This helps tremendously. Please help us bring Kyron home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Heartbreaking frustration filled tonight for the family of 7-year-old Kyron Horman. He has been missing for nearly three weeks. Cops still want to know, did anyone see his stepmom drop him off at school the morning he vanished?
And now a new disturbing clue. And a family secret exposed, an uncle in jail for child molestation.
Kyron disappeared June 4th. His stepmom, Terri Horman, says she took him to school early for a science fair and watched him walk to class. But his teacher said he never showed up.
Kyron`s stepmom says she took this photo, that very morning, of Kyron in front of his science exhibit. But after reviewing cell phone records, Terri Horman was given a second polygraph by authorities and cops still want to hear from anyone who might have seen her on the morning of June 4th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GATES: They, along with Kyron`s family, are asking the community`s assistance regarding anyone who saw not only Kyron, but also who may have seen Terri Horman, his stepmother and/or the truck that she was driving, the family truck that she was driving that morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kyron`s stepmom took other pictures at the science fair and posted them on Facebook. And you can see people in the background. You know, this says to me somebody must have seen something. Please come forward if you know anything. Even if you don`t think it`s significant. It could help.
Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, that`s 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to my fantastic expert panel: criminal defense attorney Bradford Cohen; HLN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks back with us. And we begin with investigative reporter, Michelle Sigona, who`s been tracking this case.
Michelle, what is the very latest?
MICHELLE, SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: At this particular point, Jane, investigators are still reviewing all of those questionnaires that were turned in on Sunday night at the school. Investigators passed out those questionnaires on Friday, asked for parents, students and staff to fill out those questions and to turn them in. And so, right now those are still being sorted through, sifted for information.
In addition, I spoke with Matt Shelby again from the school district where Kyron went missing. And he says because there has been some speculation that that particular photo that you just had on your screen was photo-shopped, and he said that there`s no reason not to believe that Kyron was in fact standing in front of his science fair project that morning.
His teacher that morning and another staff member did in fact see Terri Moulton and also Kyron inside of the school. What happened after that? That`s the mystery? The school was open between 8:00 a.m. and 8:45 a.m. open to the public. There are five main entrances. Two of which were unlocked.
You were able to go through the entire school that particular morning into each classroom. Kyron`s project was in the classroom that he attended each day with 26 -- or 25 other students, or 26 students total in his classroom. On most normal days he did in fact take the bus. But that morning Terri did in fact drive him so he could attend the science fair.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, I have to ask you a quick question.
SIGONA: Sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Obviously a search of her computer would settle all these unfounded rumors --
SIGONA: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- about whether or not she photo shopped something, to put that man in the back of the picture. We`ll show you, we couldn`t actually show you the picture but we can show you what we kind of drew out as an outline of a man in the back of a picture.
We`ll show it to you in a second. They`re pulling it up.
Have cops searched her computer to find out whether or not she was doing any photo shop work on that computer. And did they also determine when she posted the photo that you`re seeing here at 1:21 p.m., what else had she been doing on that computer?
SIGONA: You`re exactly right, well, this is something and a lot of these questions, as far as the cell phone, reaching out to the island about ten miles away from the school, as far as Terri`s computer, as far as any other background information, these are things that investigators will not comment on. The family will not comment on.
And that they are continuing to collect information. There are reports, as you and I know, that she did in fact take, Terri that is, a second polygraph test. And also, as both of us know, that polygraphs are only used as an investigative tool to point investigators in one direction or another. And there`s really no way to tell if somebody`s being misleading or for holding back information.
So of course, I`m sure that investigators are working on this. There`s 98 deputies that are active on this case, and have been since day one and day --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But -- the bottom line is you don`t know if they searched her computer or they haven`t or they have?
SIGONA: They won`t say.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They won`t say.
SIGONA: They will not say. No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I mean, did they execute search warrants? They would probably have to -- unless she allowed them in, they would have to execute search warrants to search that computer --
SIGONA: They would obviously have to.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
SIGONA: Right exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So we don`t have any public record of search warrants being executed.
Well, I think they should check her computer, that`s for sure, right, Mike Brooks?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, they should -- yes.
BROOKS: But you know in this case, they`ve been holding things so close to the vest in this particular case, Jane --
BRADFORD COHEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Which is smart.
BROOKS: Yes, absolutely. You know, I mean, as an investigator, if I would have been in this case, I wouldn`t want anything getting out, especially when they`re asking for this. But it`s important to go ahead and eliminate the people who are closest to Kyron and that would be Terri Horman.
But you know, with the two polygraphs, ok, when you give an initial polygraph, and again, the polygraph is only as good as the examiner who`s giving it. Was she deceptive? Was it inconclusive? Or did they want to ask her some additional questions in the second polygraph? These are all questions that we just don`t know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Bradford Cohen. You have expertise in handling cases that involve photos that may or may not have been doctored. And let`s put up that photo once again.
Again, this isn`t the actual photo. We did not show it to you for legal reasons, because see that little picture in the corner of a man? There`s an actual face on the actual picture. And we have no idea who that person is, or whether they may be involved or not.
So what do you think cops need to do with this photo to examine whether or not it was doctored, Brad?
COHEN: Well, in terms -- in terms of examining the photo, there`s experts -- and we`ve employed them before, that actually examine the photo to look for different signs of whether or not photo shop was used. We can look for shadowing, and background and things of that nature.
And really, you would have to be an expert to even come close to fooling an expert on photos. And I would doubt very highly that she has that kind of capability or that kind of skill to really be able to determine, use a photo shop and determine whether or not this is a phony photo or real photo. There`s no way she would have that expertise.
I think that it would be very easy to tell whether or not --
BROOKS: Yes.
COHEN: -- this photo has been doctored by an expert.
That being said, obviously they would want her computer as well. And it seems like she`s being cooperative. So if she`s being cooperative, they wouldn`t need a subpoena. They could probably ask her for the computer --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
COHEN: -- and she may give it up.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, another big, big development today. Kyron Horman`s uncle from Seattle is behind bars on charges of third-degree molestation for an incident that occurred in 2008. Cops say 32-year-old Christian Horman -- you`re looking at there was -- in bed with two underage children.
But cops insist Kyron was not one of those children. Christian Horman was actually arrested and convicted one week ago today in a bench trial. And Horman claims he was abused -- the man who was convicted claims he was abused once years ago by a male relative. He also reported to live three hours away from Kyron.
So I think Michelle Sigona, the big question is, where was this guy on the day of little Kyron Horman`s disappearance? He had not yet been arrested.
SIGONA: No, he was not arrested at that time. And that`s another thing that investigators were and looking into. But they don`t feel possibly that there`s any connection between that case and also the St. Helen`s case of where a child was almost abducted about a few days after Kyron went missing, about 20 minutes away in the St. Helen`s area.
And I spoke to that police chief and he still feels that there is -- there is not a particular connection between that case. But these are all directions that investigators are still looking at --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
SIGONA: -- and they`re still searching that Island along with the --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Megan in Pennsylvania, your question or thought?
MEGAN, PENNSYLVANIA (via telephone): I have two questions, Jane. The first one is, how does everybody know that the stepmom has any doing with this -- I mean, I know that she was last seen with him. But how do they know really?
COHEN: Well, that`s, Jane, normally when -- can I -- may I answer that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
COHEN: Normally when you investigate, and Michael back me up on this, you start with the person who saw that individual last. If that person is now missing, obviously you start with the person who`s closest, who saw that person last, who had last contact with that person.
So you start with her then you eliminate, you work your way out. So they need to eliminate her first and --
COHEN: And the thing that`s
(CROSS TALKING)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have to say this. I must say this. This woman is not a suspect. She`s not a person of interest. All right? And if she didn`t doctor any photos, it`s vicious rumors, all right?
Up next, the oil spill turtles.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More deaths in the Gulf, a horrific, revolting discovery. A boat captain who`s been trying to rescue sea turtles trapped in the toxic ooze says those turtles are being burned alive in BP`s so- called controlled burns of the oil slick.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE ELLIS, BOAT CAPTAIN TRYING TO RESCUE SEA TURTLES: They ran us out of there and then they shut us down. They would not let us go back in there, and in the meantime turtles that crawled up and just burned. They drag a boom between two boats and whatever`s caught between the two boats, they circle it up and catch it on fire. Once the turtles are in there they can`t get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Most of these turtles are on the endangered species list. Killing them is against the law. So will BP or anybody be held accountable for these horrific deaths?
ISSUES made a slew of calls start with Uncle Sam. I was completely stunned when a U.S. government public affairs guy replied to our inquiries with a press release issued by BP claiming the company will donate millions to a wildlife foundation. To me that just proves that these private companies run the government agencies that are supposed to be in charge of them.
Nobody from a government agency expressed horror or alarm that turtles are burned alive.
Straight out to charter boat captain, Al Walker. Capt. Al, you`ve been on the front lines of the animal rescue efforts. What do you know about these reports that turtles are being burned alive by BP?
AL WALKER, CHARTER BOAT CAPTAIN: Well, I can say that the source is very -- a very good source. Basically when they`re out there trapping this oil to do their controlled burn, you`re putting a couple footballs of oil together and you`re just lighting it on fire.
I don`t know if the guys that are doing it know the turtles are in there or if they do know they`re in there, they`re making a grave mistake.
These Kemp Ridley turtles are one of the rarest turtles on earth, if not the rarest. Louisiana`s fortunate enough to have an abundant -- abundant source of these turtles and they need to be protected. That particular turtle has been on the --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think criminal charges should be filed against whoever`s doing this, and if it`s BP it should be BP facing criminal charges.
Listen to Lisa Lange from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, PETA, who appeared here on issues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA LANGE, PETA: As the story comes out and as we hear whether or not BP and government inspectors may be charged with willful fraud -- excuse me, dereliction of duty, maybe even bribery. PETA wants to see an additional set of criminal charges and that`s criminal cruelty to animals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s a law. If you harm or kill an animal on the endangered species list you could face a fine of $50,000 and go to prison. We couldn`t even find out which government agency is in charge of prosecuting this alleged crime in the Gulf.
You also said, Captain Al, you got bureaucratic runaround when you were trying to rescue the animals. Are you frustrated?
WALKER: Yes. Oh, absolutely. You know, I teamed up with U.S. Animal Protection and basically we -- we have received funding. We do have funding, but you can never have enough funding in this. Basically we had a meeting of the minds last night with a lot of scientists, environmental, also marine biologists. And they`re wanting to start like a command post at the marinas --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to give your organization out. TowersofLife.com, Towersoflife.com, get involved. Help the turtles.
Thank you.
END
