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Joy Behar Page

Van Der Sloot`s Mom Speaks; McChrystal Relieved of Command

Aired June 23, 2010 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, Joran Van Der Sloot`s mother says her son is not a monster and Joran is complaining about his prison in Peru, Castro-Castro. He should clam up. They could move him to someplace even worse like bin Laden-bin Laden.

Then she crashes his box at the Mets game and he calls her a Jerk. Kate Hudson and A-Rod? No, Lady Gaga and Jerry Seinfeld -- whoever thought we`d see those two names in the same sentence.

And General Stanley McChrystal, the man in charge of the Afghan handed President Obama his resignation today. What will this mean to the men on the ground? We`ll discuss it tonight. That and more right now.

Accused killer Joran Van Der Sloot is complaining that at night, rats creep in his cell through the toilet. He`s complaining? How do you think the rats feel?

There were new developments today as Van Der Sloot`s mother did an interview with Dutch TV that aired on ABC`s "Good Morning America". She said, quote, "He`s not a monster. He can be very gentle but it could be that he has bipolar personality. I hope he gets the help."

Here with the latest from Peru is Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV. Hey Jean, what is the latest?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": well, you know, not a day passes that something doesn`t happen on this case. And we have just confirmed we have the complaint, thanks to Pan-America television here in Lima, Peru that Joran Van Der Sloot has filed a complaint against the police department, actually the head of the homicide, Colonel Miguel.

And what he has to say in this is that his rights have been violated. He said that when he was initially arrested, that there was not a judicial order, we know that as a warrant for your arrest. He goes on to say that when he made any type of statement to police, namely that confession, that he didn`t have a certified interpreter there, that this whole thing was meant to trap him and to trick him. He also said that they took his computer without getting that warrant also, that all of it is unlawful.

BEHAR: Wow.

You know, he was apprehended in Chile by Interpol. Are they part of this complaint also?

CASAREZ: That`s the first thing I thought of, Joy, because he was arrested by Interpol in Chile. Now maybe it was on orders of the Peruvian National Place because they were the investigating agency that wanted him back here. But is it even proper to file a complaint against this police department when somebody else arrested him?

BEHAR: You know, when he was in Aruba, he was released twice. Is that going to happen again here? Is he going to be set free?

CASAREZ: You know, if you`d asked me that question hours ago, I would tell you this is a just a stalling technique from the defense and that`s what the legal scholars in Lima are telling me. But if there was not an actual certified interpreter there. If he was really confused and didn`t understand, there could be a question here. But the fact is he went into great detail about what happened that night. Furthermore, there is video surveillance like we`ve never seen it in a case before, Joy.

BEHAR: That`s true. His mother has been talking to Dutch TV. Have you heard anything else about that?

CASAREZ: Yes. His mother`s been saying a lot to the Telegraph, namely that she was expecting her son to go to Holland to enter a rehabilitation facility, left a note on the kitchen table. Said, "I just don`t want to go there. I`ve been invited to a gambling tournament in Lima, Peru. Nobody will see me there. Nobody will know me there. I can think about what to do with my life."

But she said she was very angry and she also said that she`s glad he`s in prison here and she wants justice herself.

BEHAR: Well, she also said he might be bipolar. Are we going to see an insanity plea based on what the mother says and other evidence?

CASAREZ: Yes. That`s interesting. Now, of course, insanity, same here in Peru; you`ve got to know right from wrong or not know it when you commit the act. Bipolar, does that enter into sanity?

We did get that psych report yesterday from our sources here. And it talks about behavior and a personality that can explode upon any moment of conflict. Is that a bipolar personality or is that what just she thinks?

BEHAR: Right. She`s diagnosing it herself. Ok. Thanks, Jean, very much.

Now I want to turn to my panel: Candice Delong, former FBI agent and criminal profile; and Michael Griffith, international criminal defense attorney.

Candice, the mother says that Van Der Sloot might be bipolar. First of all, she came up with that herself. What do you think of that?

CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI AGENT: Well, Joy, I`ve been a psychiatric nurse for years and I`ve worked with people that have bipolar disorder. It sounds possible like it`s some way -- some explanation she`s giving herself as to why he does the things he does. Sometimes people in a bipolar mania commit crimes. But generally they don`t -- if they do, they don`t also have the wherewithal to go on the run.

I think it`s just easily explained by a mother who`s trying to explain the loss of her son.

BEHAR: She doesn`t know what to make of it, I think. Can the defense use that at all, Michael?

MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Bipolar is not a defense for --

BEHAR: Some of my best friends are bipolar.

GRIFFITH: Yes. I mean it`s whether you know right or wrong. Whether you know right or wrong, what you`re doing at the time.

BEHAR: That`s more like borderline personalities. They don`t know right or wrong. It`s much more complicated than just bipolar.

GRIFFITH: It`s where you don`t appreciate the nature of the act that you`re doing. He appreciated it.

BEHAR: Yes. A lack of empathy also is in there too with this guy. That`s another problem.

But the mother said in her interview with Dutch TV, which was aired on ABC`s "Good Morning America". This is a quote that she said. He left me a note, like, "Mommy, I love you but I don`t want to go to the Netherlands. I`m invited to gamble in Peru and I can make money there. And I want to stay there, just far away. Nobody knows me there. I want to think what I want to do with my life."

Candice, how many 23-year-olds call their mother mommy?

DELONG: One. One that we know of.

BEHAR: I know that Ronald Reagan called Nancy "mommy". But that was more of an affectionate thing. This sounds a little needy. What do you think?

DELONG: Right. I don`t know. Are we saying Ronald Reagan was bipolar, too? You know, where are we going here?

BEHAR: I don`t know Candice. On this show, we go anywhere we want. Does this tell you anything about their relationship? That fact that he -- you know.

DELONG: I don`t know that much can be drawn from it really. I think it`s all very sad for her. I have a son; I cannot imagine what it would be like going through being the mother of a young man that did what he is accused of doing, what he`s confessed to have done.

BEHAR: Yes. Your son doesn`t call you mommy, I take it, Candice?

DELONG: No.

BEHAR: Ok.

Michael, why is she giving these interviews? Does she have some kind of a plan this mother? What is she doing?

GRIFFITH: I have no idea why she`s doing this unless she thinks he`s going to be treated more humanely or get a lighter sentence.

BEHAR: Yes.

GRIFFITH: But let me -- you know this confession thing is a big smoke screen. They don`t need the confession. They have a video of him going in and out of the room --

BEHAR: Right.

GRIFFITH: They have the statement to the room clerk that, "Let my girl sleep, she`s upstairs." And they`ve got her DNA, blood on his white shirt. And they have the consciousness of guilt that he fled to Peru and he changed his hair color. So they don`t need a confession.

And I`ve tried cases in Peru; I`ve had clients in Peru. Down there you don`t get credit for obstructing an investigation. This kid is doing nothing right.

BEHAR: What do you mean? We get credit for that here? Mitigating -- what does it mean?

GRIFFITH: Well, under the inquisitorial system, the judge there conducts the investigation. And if you have to go before the judge seven or eight times, breaking he`s you know what, he`s not going to like this. If you cooperate and not be obstructive, you`ll get a better sentence. This kid is doing nothing right.

BEHAR: So he`s doing the opposite that would get him out of this situation?

GRIFFITH: Exactly because they have him tightly wrapped in the confession. So if they don`t use the confession, who cares? They have all these other stuff.

BEHAR: So even if he says -- his lawyers said they coerced the confession or he doesn`t understand the language, it doesn`t matter?

GRIFFITH: It doesn`t matter.

BEHAR: Because of the forensic evidence.

GRIFFITH: They have him.

BEHAR: Now Candice, Van Der Sloot -- he reportedly says that the FBI lured him to Peru in a botched sting operation. You`re an ex-FBI woman. Could that be true?

DELONG: I -- it doesn`t sound right. I don`t know the details of the FBI investigation. But it sounds odd that the FBI would be involved in luring him to Peru and then botch it.

But wait a minute. Are we really concerning ourselves with everything this guy is saying when he has a very long and drawn-out and colorful history of lying since that day he came to the attention of the world five years ago?

BEHAR: That`s true. He seems like a pathological liar as well as a murderer.

DELONG: Sure, sure.

BEHAR: Allegedly, you know.

GRIFFITH: You know, Joy, the U.S. has got jurisdiction over him. Remember when Leon Klinghoffer, who was accused of killing (INAUDIBLE)?

BEHAR: How can I forget it?

GRIFFITH: And we brought down Abu Abbas in a plane over Italy.

There`s a doctrine called the passive personality doctrine of international law saying if you`re an American citizen and someone kills you or attacks you overseas, we have jurisdiction over that. And what we should be doing right now is the Department of Justice has an office in the Peruvian embassy.

BEHAR: Yes.

GRIFFITH: We should be saying to him, look, we`re going to extradite you back on the extortion anyway. By the time you come back, we`ll probably have you on murder. You better tell us right now where that body is so these parents don`t have to wait 7 or 8 more years. We have jurisdiction over this guy. And he better be careful because we will bring him back here on murder charges.

BEHAR: Well, that whole business of where the body is, is a very sketchy business because he might have killed her and thrown her into the ocean, sharks and whatever. There is no evidence of a body.

DELONG: Right.

GRIFFITH: But there is some -- there is some evidence though. This testimony of the Kalpoe brothers, Deepak and other, whey were with him. And they`re ready to turn state`s evidence.

BEHAR: Oh, is that so, the plot thickens. This story is never going to go away, is it?

GRIFFITH: Well, not for at least 15 more years because that`s how long he`s going to be there.

BEHAR: Oh my God, but you know he filed a complaint of misconduct against detectives today. What does it mean for the defense for him to do that?

GRIFFITH: Once again, this kid is doing nothing right because he must cooperate with the judge. Don`t make the judge`s life miserable. Don`t try to overturn or be an obstructionist.

BEHAR: Right, again.

GRIFFITH: He`s doing nothing right.

BEHAR: Aggravating the judge. Can he --

CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI AGENT: But don`t forget --

BEHAR: -- go ahead.

DELONG: -- his father is in the justice system in Aruba, as I recall. And he probably thinks that he can pull all these little complaints out of his -- out of his hat and serve them and get away with his crime as he apparently did in the past.

BEHAR: That`s right.

DELONG: And it`s just not working. He seems to forget he`s in Peru.

BEHAR: He seems to forget also that the girl, the victim in Peru, her father is a big shot in Peru.

DELONG: Right.

BEHAR: Just like his father was a big shot in Aruba.

DELONG: Right.

BEHAR: He`s on the wrong side this time.

Thanks very much guys.

DELONG: You`re welcome.

BEHAR: Up next, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan was relieved of his duty today. We`ll discuss the fallout.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Lady Gaga`s bizarre behavior at a baseball game has Mets fan Jerry Seinfeld fuming mad; the latest on the feud between the comedian and the pop star.

And actress Helen Mirren makes headlines by posing for a photo spread in a bathtub topless at the age of 64.

Now back to Joy.

BEHAR: The top commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal was relieved of his position today after the general`s criticisms of the President were published in "Rolling Stone" magazine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The war is bigger than any one man or woman, whether a private, a general or a president. As difficult as it is to lose General McChrystal, I believe that it is the right decision for our national security.

The conduct represented in the recently published article does not meet the standard that should be set by a commanding general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: The President has selected General Petraeus to take his spot. So was this the right decision?

With me to discuss this story is Jack Rice, former CIA officer and attorney. And joining me on the phone is Margaret Carlson, a columnist for Bloomberg and the Washington editor for "The Week" magazine.

Jack was this the right decision to let McChrystal resign?

JACK RICE, FORMER CIA OFFICER/ATTORNEY: Yes, I think it was. I think it`s really intolerable when you have a general in this place really undercutting the President. It can`t be done as a left or right. And let`s face it, the last thing you want here is you don`t want to see a fogginess that comes with -- with this lack of clarity from two different viewpoints.

It has to be very, very seamless. What comes from the Commander- in-Chief has to be how this is being played. And if you don`t get that, then you could have very serious ramifications down the line.

BEHAR: Margaret, was if better for Obama that McChrystal resigned than having to fire him?

MARGARET CARLSON, BLOOMBERG COLUMNIST (via telephone): I think it`s the same thing. He put his resignation out there. But it`s just a matter -- it`s just a matter of degree.

It was such the right thing to do. This is McChrystal`s fourth strike. You know, Obama let him get away with leaking that he wanted 30,000 troops, which didn`t have the effect, but could have had the effect of cornering the President. In a London speech, he said what the President should do, again, making public what should have been private.

And then we have this -- what I think of as the general going gaga, sharing "Rolling Stone" with Lady Gaga this week. She bared everything and so did McChrystal in that profile.

It was an amazing display of contempt and ridicule for all the suits in Washington that are supposed to be the ones telling him what to do.

BEHAR: Yes.

Jack was insubordinate really, wasn`t he? And he has been in many instances.

RICE: Without question. Actually Obama I think has been very careful in the first place. The President probably should have replaced him in the past. I`m thinking about this not in terms of what he was doing on the ground all the while he was in Afghanistan just a few months ago. But beyond that I`m looking at the way a chain of command has to work.

You must have this sort of seamless approach, where when the President says something there aren`t going to be people down the line from a President, from a general to a private, who is going to sit back and say, "I don`t think so." You have to have this clarity. Without that you`re going to get this sort of split in judgment and lives are at stake.

It`s much different than if I work for a beer company and say, I don`t like that beer. You should go buy the other one. People will buy the other beer, that`s the cost. In this case, there are lives involved.

BEHAR: You know, Margaret, I can`t believe McChrystal didn`t know any better. Both of you can answer this. Is it possible that he secretly wanted these criticisms to get out? It seems very stupid, what he did.

CARLSON: You know, it -- I`m always looking like you for, what was he thinking? This is like, amazing.

You know, just a couple of weeks ago, he announced that the move to secure Kandahar was going to be delayed. He said that publicly, which meant that the July deadline might well not be met. That wasn`t his to say.

I mean, that`s a policy decision that`s going to be made at the White House when the -- right now or in the December policy review. You know, the idea that you can just kick back and let loose and just say whatever you want --

BEHAR: It`s unacceptable.

CARLSON: I mean who gets to do that? Even you and I don`t get to do that, Joy on TV. We have to be a little bit careful.

BEHAR: That`s right. And you know, let me read you this quote from one of the advisers, a McChrystal adviser. He said, "Obama clearly didn`t know anything about him," meaning McChrystal, who he was. "Here`s a guy who`s going to run his F-ing war, but he didn`t seem very engaged. The boss, McChrystal, was disappointed."

It sounds like he`s saying McChrystal has a little bit of an ego issue here. Is that true?

CARLSON: Joy, I think the President is now --

BEHAR: Jack why are you laughing?

CARLSON: -- is now the one who is disappointed.

BEHAR: Jack, why are you laughing?

RICE: I`m laughing because -- I mean I think about all of these guys. I mean, when I`ve been in Iraq multiple times, when I`ve been in Afghanistan, every war zone I ever go into and you run into people at this level, the egos in the room are massive.

BEHAR: Yes.

RICE: But you know what? The fact is that when you raise your right hand and you swear to uphold an oath, especially with the form of government we have, you have civilian leadership. If you put on a uniform, your obligation is to follow that leadership.

BEHAR: Right. I think we all agree he did the right thing.

Thanks very much, Margaret and Jack.

And we`ll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Niecy Nash is a comedian, an actress and, as we all know, a dancer. Now she`s an advocate for public toilets. She`s here to explain it.

Niecy, are all the other charities taken?

NIECY NASH, ACTRESS/COMEDIAN: All the other charities are not taken. And here is the thing. When no one is stepping up for something important, I`m your girl. Yes.

BEHAR: So what is it, 40 percent of the world does not have access to proper sanitation? Did that get you going, that statistic?

NASH: Well, here`s the thing. You know I host "Clean House.

BEHAR: Yes.

NASH: I`ve been doing that for years. And the thing of it is I deal with people who don`t have clean homes. When I started to learn about the statistics of people who don`t have proper sanitation -- the problem is that people are always screaming about the water, the water in some of these other countries.

What really happens is that the water is polluted because that`s what people are using. That`s where they go to the bathroom and where wash their clothes. It`s what they use to cook with --

(CROSS TALKING)

BEHAR: Yes. They use the same water.

NASH: Right. And so it spreads so much disease; 2.6 billion people, ok, are suffering. And so I said, well, wait a minute. How can I help the World Toilet Organization earn some money and bring light to this subject so that we can help people who really, really need it?

BEHAR: Right. And so today you were in Grand Central Station handing out free subway cards.

NASH: To Flushing, New York.

BEHAR: Yes, I love it. That`s funny. Who thought of that?

NASH: Well, you know what? Clorox toilet products in conjunction with the World Toilet Organization; it all came together. People were really available. They took the tickets. They said they were going to make donations online. So it`s a good cause.

BEHAR: That`s nice. I went to Queen`s College in Flushing. I know all about Flushing.

NASH: Did you now? Do you need a free ticket to get back down there?

BEHAR: No. That`s all right.

NASH: I`m just saying.

BEHAR: Are you a super clean person yourself? Do you have OCD about cleaning the house?

NASH: You know what? I was not born than a neat-knick. I keep my house clean because I`m fearful that one day my show is going to knock on the door. Surprise, it`s "Clean House".

And then -- that`s another reason because I`m not neat by nature, I have children. So I force them to clean.

BEHAR: How do get your kids to -- how do you that?

NASH: I say, "Get in there and clean it up, or else." And I mean it.

BEHAR: And so they did it.

NASH: Yes.

BEHAR: They clean up their room and everything?

NASH: Well, you know what. Sometimes it`s challenging but I stay the course. You know what I mean. I refuse -- I don`t call them in the room to hand me the remote when I know they`re cleaning. I respect their time.

BEHAR: I see.

NASH: I do.

BEHAR: How about getting dog and putting Endust on the bottom of it and just schlep it around.

NASH: And schlep it around?

(CROSS TALKING)

BEHAR: -- the house that way.

NASH: Well, that`s a thought. That`s a thought.

BEHAR: One more thing before you go, "The Hoarders Show". Do you ever watch that show?

NASH: I do.

BEHAR: Now those are some major pathology cases. I was going to call them slobs. But I think that they`re --

NASH: It`s beyond being sick.

BEHAR: There`s something sick, yes.

NASH: Yes, because you know, clutter in and of itself is an outward expression of an inward thing. When you go that far, you have to start with what`s going on up top. It`s more than just, I didn`t pick up the house.

BEHAR: Well, what do you think is going on up top? What`s going on there?

NASH: Well, you know, different things. Some people are suffering from depression. Some people are grieving. I mean, it`s different things that I`ve found in what I do.

As a matter of fact, me and my guy were just watching TV the other night. A grown man started hoarding lizards. The lizards end up attacking the man and ate his face off. I said, "Now, you know you went too far then.

BEHAR: Well, now that`s television. I`ll tell you right now.

NASH: Hey, hey.

BEHAR: Ok, Niecy, stay right there. We have some pop culture dish to discuss.

NASH: Oh.

BEHAR: Including the Lady Gaga-Jerry Seinfeld feud.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Apparently Lady Gaga was acting strangely at a Mets game recently. How could you tell? Anyway, Jerry Seinfeld is PO`d because Gaga was moved into his luxury box after flipping off the camera and boozing it up in the stands. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY SEINFELD, COMEDIAN: This woman`s a jerk. I hate her. I can`t believe they put her in my box which I paid for. This is what -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They did.

SEINFELD: You give people the finger and you get upgraded? Is that the world we`re living in now?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Yes, that is the world we`re living in, Jerry. And with me now to discuss this and more are actress comedian and host of "CLEAN HOUSE" Niecy Nash, star of the new ABC show "SCOUNDRELS" Virginia Madsen, and then from "30 ROCK" actor and comedian Scott Adsit. OK, Virginia, was that a little harsh? I hate her.

VIRGINIA MADSEN STAR, "SCOUNDRELS": I`m so trying so hard not to laugh. But I thought that was the funniest interview. And I`m like picturing like Jerry Seinfeld like watching TV and seeing her in his box and he`s going what`s up with that. She`s in my box, you know what I mean, what`s up with that, and you know she`s giving the finger, what`s up with that? And his outrage is the only part of the story I have a problem with.

BEHAR: Not her.

MADSEN: He`s outraged. But the fact that they let anybody into his box.

BEHAR: I know I hate that when that happens.

MADSEN: What`s up with that?

SCOTT ADSIT, ACTOR, "30 ROCK": Is there any harm done if she ends up in his box really? I mean, unless she`s left a little bit of Gaga on his seat. What`s the harm really?

NIECY NASH, ACTRESS/COMEDIAN: Here`s where the harm --

BEHAR: This part could get rough -

NASH: Here`s where the harm comes in -

BEHAR: The what?

NASH: The harm. He said is it any harm? Here`s where the harm comes in. You can do whatever you want to do in your own house. But don`t come to my house cutting up.

MADSEN: Yes, yes.

NASH: Do you see what I`m saying? It would be different if she was in her own box.

MADSEN: But here was the other thing that was so ridiculous-

BEHAR: Or he was in her box. Go ahead, Virginia.

MADSEN: They were like, and she was drinking beer. I`m like, have you been to a ball game?

BEHAR: Exactly.

MADSEN: Oh, she was swilling beer. And I was like, I mean why is that news?

BEHAR: Yes.

MADSEN: I mean the only problem, maybe with the bra showing, you know, it was kind of like stupid. But she`s young and wild.

ADSIT: But that`s her job, she`s positioned herself to be outrageous and do cutting edge, just new ideas like flipping the bird.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: They`ve been doing that in New York for years. James Gandolfini had a little confront (ph) with a paparazzi recently and he flipped off the camera guy also. Now why are celebrities - first of all why would you screw around with a soprano? You know?

MADSEN: Well exactly.

BEHAR: Talk to a soprano.

MADSEN: And you know what I mean, I thought it was very tame, anyway that picture, and you know he`s still - but-

BEHAR: Who is still -

NASH: You like the rough guys, don`t you.

MADSEN: I know -

BEHAR: Who is handsome? Gandolfini?

MADSEN: Yes.

BEHAR: You like a big chunky guy?

MADSEN: It`s really not that. It`s not really his size. It`s his --

NASH: It`s his swagger.

MADSEN: Yes.

NASH: Uh huh -

MADSEN: See she understands.

BEHAR: I could see Gandolfini.

ADSIT: I don`t know why it`s a controversy anyway, he flipped off the camera. Everyone does it. And then getting flipped off by Tony Soprano is a blessing, isn`t it?

MADSEN: I know that would be so cool. I mean -

ADSIT: It`s an anointing.

MADSEN: You know the guy behind the camera was like, yes. Like you know, and besides, I think what goes on behind those cameras is way more scandalous than the bird. I mean if you see them surrounding, like, a young starlet or a young guy, the kinds of things they say and do are so vulgar.

BEHAR: Really, the camera guy?

(CROSSTALK)

NASH: They want to provoke you to say something, to do something sensational because there`s a lot of money in that. When they go back to sell that footage and sell that photo. So yes, you are sometimes provoked into doing --

MADSEN: Yes.

ADSIT: There would be no business if there was context in the paparazzi business.

BEHAR: That`s right, OK. Now Lady Gaga isn`t the only one flaunting it, 64-year-old Helen Mirren has posed naked in "New York" magazine. I give her credit. I haven`t posed since my breasts became a 42 long. We don`t have those pictures, they are a little bit racy but she`s done this kind of thing before. Remember these bikini pics from the "Daily Mail" website. She is in a bikini. I mean she was hot, for many years, Helen Mirren, a sexy dame, literally.

NASH: You know what? I say go for it. I am all in and I love it. And I think you should do it too. I invite you to do it. You should do it too.

BEHAR: You know what for a man to see me naked, I have to be in his will. Why would I do it for cover --

NASH: Do you know what -- let me tell you what my grandmother always said, Joy. When you are the only naked woman in the room, baby, you look good.

BEHAR: Especially if everyone`s blind. All right, Virginia, you`ve done nude scenes independent the past, my dear.

MADSEN: Have I?

BEHAR: Yes, you have. Is there a point where you will say I`m not doing this anymore, you know age wise.

MADSEN: No it would really depend on what the script was, what the movie was. You know I mean I`d never say never. I just don`t think there`s really anything wrong with it.

BEHAR: You don`t?

MADSEN: No. I mean, it`s not the most -- it`s really uncomfortable. It`s very embarrassing to do, especially when I did -- when I did, when I exposed skin, I was very young. And I`m -- and I`m very modest. And so it was very hard for me personally to do that.

BEHAR: Right.

MADSEN: But I did -- in the films I did, it was right for that story.

BEHAR: But I`m say if you were 65 or 75 years old.

MADSEN: How about now? They have great body makeup now?

BEHAR: No but no, but you`re so young and you still look great. But I mean --

MADSEN: I wouldn`t be in a bikini.

BEHAR: In 20 years let`s say, it`s a whole different ball game. Are you going to be able to do -- would you? Would you , I mean, 70, let`s say 70. Because 70 is the new 50.

ADSIT: Yes, I will.

BEHAR: You will? You will, do you think anyone will be asking though, that`s the problem?

ADSIT: Why, Joy.

BEHAR: I`m sorry but it`s like nobody`s asking me to get naked. They`re obviously asking Helen Mirren to do it.

NASH: Maybe she called them. And said, look here, I want to take off a few things. Got any takers, anyway?

MADSEN: I would pay good money to hear that phone call, just like that.

BEHAR: I mean Diane Keaton at 56 got naked in "Something`s Got To Give." Did you see that?

NASH: Yes and I loved it.

BEHAR: And Katie Bates in "About Schmidt," at 53 got into a hot tub.

MADSEN: Well and Jack Nicholson walked away with his old butt, you know. That was great.

BEHAR: Oh I know.

MADSEN: It was really like, this is me. Here I am. I mean it really depends on the story and, you know, for me certainly how it was shot.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Good gel.

NASH: I mean a lot of it has to do with people not wanting to think that people who are mature in age are still getting it in. You know what I mean? Are they still doing that? Do they still know how to do that? Do they still want to do that? Do you know what I mean?

MADSEN: Yes and it really is, you know, why is it shocking at all to think that women beyond a certain age are sexually viable?

NASH: Well I don`t know. I`m going to be getting into that.

MADSEN: That`s right, right, absolutely.

BEHAR: Well Alec Baldwin, you worked with Alec Baldwin. He bared it all, 52 years old, he was.

ADSIT: Oh he`s naked all the time. He walks around the set naked.

BEHAR: Does he really? Full Monty, no, not fully monty.

ADSIT: Oh, yes, he walks everywhere.

BEHAR: Stop it.

ADSIT: Like he has to get clothes to start the shot.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: You`re kidding me, right?

ADSIT: Have you seen him? He`s fantastic looking.

BEHAR: No but he was naked in "It`s Complicated." I mean no one said anything about it.

ADSIT: Is there controversy about Helen Mirren?

BEHAR: I mean yes. People are talking about it because she`s older.

ADSIT: But I think they`re all saying, you go, girl.

BEHAR: You go, nana.

(LAUGHTER)

MADSEN: But you know she didn`t really do like a "Playboy" spread. I mean it was like very beautiful pictures.

ADSIT: That`s true.

BEHAR: She`s in a bathtub.

MADSEN: She`s in a bathtub.

BEHAR: She`s in a bathtub.

MADSEN: I think that people were talking about it because she has a suggestive eye.

BEHAR: Yes.

MADSEN: And so they`re like, oh, you know.

BEHAR: Well she`s the grand dame of the American film And English theater. OK, now --

ADIST: I think we`re talking about it because we have Freud issues.

BEHAR: That`s true, OK well while Helen Kings is working former child star, Amanda Bynes is already retired at the ripe old age of 24. She said, being an actress isn`t as fun as it may seem if I don`t love something, I stop doing it. I don`t love acting anymore so I`ve stopped doing it. I say she can`t retire. Who`s going to play Miley Cyrus in the lifetime movie?

NASH: Stop it. Stop it.

BEHAR: Stop it.

NASH: Listen, listen, I applaud this girl. You`ve got so many young girls who don`t even have half the talent this little girl does.

BEHAR: She`s good.

NASH: Who are trying anything and everything to be a celebrity. And for her to walk away from it, to me, is very brave. And I just like that she owned - she was going to make a choice for herself and not follow the crowd.

MADSEN: Yes, well.

BEHAR: Do you think it`s a publicity stunt though?

MADSEN: I think it`s a good career move because we`re all talking about her.

BEHAR: right.

MADSEN: Headlines right now but I think that, you know, not knowing her, of course, but it sounds -- she`s been doing it since she was a little girl.

BEHAR: Yes.

MADSEN: So it seems like it`s a good thing for her to take a break.

BEHAR: she needs to take a break.

MADSEN: I don`t know that retire - I don`t know if you can retire from anything at 24. But you know, maybe she`ll go to school.

NASH: You know when you want to do something or you don`t.

MADSEN: Yes, I applaud her for that.

ADSIT: She can spend the next six years playing golf.

BEHAR: That`s true. Thanks everybody for this. Be sure to catch Virginia Madsen on the new ABC show "SCOUNDRELS" Sundays at 9:00 p.m. and Scot Adsit show "MARY SHELLEY FRAKEN HOLT" premieres June 27th on Adult film, Melissa Etheridge joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

I need, I fear this love. I want -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: She has two Grammy`s, an Oscar, four kids and an ex-wife. She also has a new album out called "Fearless Love" which her teenage daughter actually named, I hear. Here to tell me all about it is the singer and wonderful talented Melissa Etheridge. Yes, you do have an ex-wife.

MELISSA ETHERIDGE, GRAMMY AWARD WINNING SINGER: I have two ex-wives. One formal.

BEHAR: You have two ex-wives?

ETHERIDGE: One formal I guess. The other one, you know, we-

BEHAR: You weren`t married twice, were you?

ETHERIDGE: No, no. I wasn`t married, but I feel like I was married twice, oh, there you go - so.

BEHAR: Why, were you hit and left by the side of the road?

ETHERIDGE: No, no, no -

BEHAR: That`s what it feels like?

ETHERIDGE: No. I`m not going there with you. You could make me go there, and I`m not going there.

BEHAR: OK, I won`t.

ETHERIDGE: OK.

BEHAR: Before I talk about, I want to talk about your marriage though. Because you broke up with Tammy Lynn Michaels. So how are you doing since the break up? How long is that? I mean you were together a while -

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: You were married legally in California, right?

ETHERIDGE: Yes. We were married seven years ago. And together nine years. You know, it`s a good, long marriage.

BEHAR: By today`s standards, it is.

ETHERIDGE: Yes, by today`s -

BEHAR: Our parents`, no.

ETHERIDGE: No, I know. As any break-ups are, it`s up and down. And you know we have two children together, so that`s a lot of -- you really have to work things out. You have to find that place that it works.

BEHAR: Well, she`s not -- I know I`m delving into personal -- but I`m fascinated by this.

ETHERIDGE: There you go, Joy, hard-hitting news.

BEHAR: She said that the breakup was mutual. You said that the break up was mutual. Were you on Oprah or something?

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: And then she wrote on her blog, this long, meandering poem that it`s not mutual. That you - please stop telling the press it was mutual, she said in her poem. So what about it, was it mutual or not?

ETHERIDGE: Well I think everybody understands why we are not together. Because we don`t see things the same. You know, it`s like -

BEHAR: You thought it was mutual, she didn`t.

ETHERIDGE: Yes, you know, it`s -- those things are so hard to really discuss. And she absolutely has a blog that she can you know, put her feelings and thoughts in.

BEHAR: Yes.

ETHERIDGE: And I respect that.

BEHAR: Good for her.

ETHERIDGE: Yes, and here I am talking to you.

BEHAR: But you know, the thing about this, I am talking to you about it on television. I think that makes it harder because you`re in the public eye and everybody wants to know everything. And you`re such a forthcoming person so you`ll going there.

ETHERIDGE: That`s the thing. I`ve been forthcoming about my relationships. I always thought I was doing something good for the gay community and like gay teens. I know when I was a gay teen growing up, there was no couples. There was no gay people, you know. It was --

BEHAR: Well they were there. You just didn`t know it.

ETHERIDGE: Yes. It was pretty dark. So I`ve always tried to say, hey, look, this is the relationship. And you make that so public. Then all of a sudden, OK, here`s t breakup. You have to be there for all of it.

BEHAR: It kind of goes with the territory, I guess.

ETHERIDGE: It does go with the territory.

BEHAR: But you know tell me about the story of your daughter. What`s her name, the daughter who named Asia.

ETHERIDGE: Bailey, Bailey is my firstborn. She`s 13 now. And of course, she knows everything. She knows everything about music. And it was the first time, both of them, my 13-year-old and 11-year-old were interested in what I was doing. Interested in, you know, are you writing? Can I hear the songs and they saw the whole process. And so Bailey said, what`s the name of the album? I said, I`m thinking of Songs of Fear and Love. She said, that`s way too long. How about fearless? She said, Mom, Taylor Swift`s album is fearless. She said what about Fearless Love? And I said, oh my god, that`s great.

BEHAR: She earned her keep.

ETHERIDGE: Yes, I`ll feed her again for a year.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Is this the child who the sperm donor, David Crosby?

ETHERIDGE: Uh-huh.

BEHAR: That`s so interesting. I remember hearing about that. I thought, that kid`s going to be musical. Because it`s your natural child?

ETHERIDGE: No it was actually Julie and David. I`m not blood related but I have certainly influenced.

BEHAR: Yes well nature and nurture coming together.

ETHERIDGE: That`s exactly, you know environment and the genes all happening about music. And the school they go to is very musical and it`s very natural. So yes, they are musical.

BEHAR: Two kids?

ETHERIDGE: Yes, two kids. I have -

BEHAR: Bailey -

ETHERIDGE: Bailey, that kid, and then I have the twins with Tammy, two 3-year-olds.

BEHAR: Oh, you have four children, and you have custody now of all of them?

ETHERIDGE: I have, I share custody.

BEHAR: Share custody, so the David Crosby thing, worked, I mean the kids are musical?

ETHERIDGE: They are musical and they`re beautiful. I know people used to tease about -- I know, I know. Believe me, I know. And it wasn`t looking for a handsome guy.

BEHAR: He`s talented, looks wise -

ETHERIDGE: But you know what, the heart, he and his wife, Jan, just the gift, it was really amazing. And I`m telling you, someday you will see my children. You will go, holy cow. They`re gorgeous.

BEHAR: Well I can see that David Crosby would be very -- I remember the old days. Steven Stills, he gorgeous in his day, he was a sexy guy. Now you also were diagnosed with breast cancer six years ago. And I read that you called cancer a wakeup call. A near-death experience does change you, right?

ETHERIDGE: It totally does and it should. And I think, I`m one of those woo people that think that`s what cancer is about. It`s about - it`s a symptom. It`s your body goes out of balance from stress, from what we put into our bodies -

BEHAR: Smoking -

ETHERIDGE: From food, smoking. All those things that poison that we subject our physical bodies too. And when cancer came and then they took it out, it was like, oh I get it. And it set me on a much healthier path.

BEHAR: Uh huh, some cancer is genetic though.

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: A lot of it, they have a certain kind of gene for breast cancer et cetera that they --

ETHERIDGE: And yes, I agree. I also think that what we`re going to find next is that genes are not like, this is the blue print of your life. Genes are affected by environment also.

BEHAR: Probably, probably.

ETHERIDGE: There`s been scientific proof of that. So it goes on.

BEHAR: Yes, OK. Stay there.

ETHERIDGE: I will.

BEHAR: We have more with Melissa Etheridge when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ETHERIDGE: Come to my window crawl inside, wait by the light of the moon come to my window and I`ll be home soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Melissa, I love that song "Come To My Window." Full disclosure though, I once sang it outside George Clooney`s house and he had me arrested.

(LAUGHTER)

ETHERIDGE: That happens.

BEHAR: Now your first album was over 20 years ago, right?

ETHERIDGE: Oh my goodness. Yes.

BEHAR: How has music changed since you first started? A lot, right?

ETHERIDGE: Music and the music business. They`re having a hard time right now sort of getting in with the, you know, the Itunes and digital music.

BEHAR: Oh yes, you can`t sell an album anymore, right.

ETHERIDGE: Yes, it`s really, I still make an album. I still make my music in that way. I think of it, there it is right there.

BEHAR: Here, I have it. That`s your album, "Fearless Love."

ETHERIDGE: I still make my albums and think of it as -- that`s an art form. It`s been an art form for decades.

BEHAR: Yes, right.

ETHERIDGE: I know that people will just buy singles. But, you know, there is still an art form.

BEHAR: And you want the thing to hold.

ETHERIDGE: A lot of people like that, yes.

BEHAR: I like that a lot. You know we were talking about the gay thing before. I wanted to ask you about Elton John performed for Rush Limbaugh at his wedding. Did you know that?

ETHERIDGE: No, I did not know that.

BEHAR: You didn`t know?

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: He performed -

ETHERIDGE: Did Rush ask him?

BEHAR: Yes. He paid him a million dollars.

ETHERIDGE: Oh, well, I -- hello. Rush, call me.

BEHAR: Would you do it for a million bucks?

ETHERIDGE: I don`t know. Wow, I`d have to actually think about it.

BEHAR: Yes, how about 2 million?

ETHERIDGE: I --

BEHAR: You`d have to think about it less. No, it`s like -- it`s an interesting dynamic, discussion. Because he`s giving it to his charity, Elton John.

ETHERIDGE: There you go.

BEHAR: He`s not going to keep the money. And you know, some people say, he can cough up a million out of his own bank account. What did he have to go there to perform for this homophobic guy?

ETHERIDGE: Might feel good to take it from there, you know, sort of give to here, sort of Robin Hood like, you know.

BEHAR: I think it was an interesting thing he did -

ETHERIDGE: I think it was interesting --

BEHAR: That must have been some wedding, it was his fourth. Women will go for anything.

ETHERIDGE: I know.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: It`s true, not gay women, straight women.

ETHERIDGE: All of them, I`m telling you.

BEHAR: Straight women -- gay women will go for anything. No, the gay guys I know are very picky.

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

BEHAR: You know this and this. They have a list. Women, he`s all right. He`s wearing pants. I`ll take him. The toupee has to go, however. Let`s see, now, you are going out on tour, where are you going to go?

ETHERIDGE: Oh my goodness, I start actually in Europe. I leave tomorrow for Europe. And I do three shows. Then come back to America, start on the East Coast, playing New York City, July 14th.

BEHAR: Oh, where?

ETHERIDGE: The United Palace Theater. Uptown, I`ve never played there, it`s all new.

BEHAR: Uptown. It`s a new place, yes.

ETHERIDGE: And then moving all the way across to the West Coast. I end up in California in September.

BEHAR: Where in Europe are you going?

ETHERIDGE: I`m doing London, Amsterdam and Berlin.

BEHAR: Very nice, the axis powers, I love it.

ETHERIDGE: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Anyway, thank you so much for doing this.

ETHERIDGE: Oh it`s a pleasure.

BEHAR: You know I love you. She`s great.

ETHERIDGE: I love -

BEHAR: You were fabulous in that concert I saw you.

ETHERIDGE: She saw me live, she said, come see me -

BEHAR: You were just great. You should really catch Melissa live. But if you can`t her new album "Fearless Love" is out now. Goodnight, everybody.

END