Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Van Der Sloot Files Complaint Against Peruvian Police
Aired June 23, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We are coming to you from South America tonight, live in Lima, Peru. It is the murder case against Joran Van Der Sloot. Just when he thinks he`ll walk free on murder charges in the death of Natalee Holloway, Van Der Sloot charged with murdering a beautiful 21- year-old woman he meets in a casino.
Major developments tonight, Van Der Sloot alleging police misconduct, claiming he was tricked into a confession and his rights were violated. We have just gotten a copy of that complaint. It`s right here in Lima, Peru. It`s where Van Der Sloot actually accuses the police of violating his rights. He`s insisting that he is the victim. Not only that, he says he was set up by the FBI, that he was lured to Peru.
Now, after Van Der Sloot refused to talk to a judge about Stephany Tatiana`s murder, the same judge is set to rule on whether it`s legal to keep him from being behind bars (SIC). Investigative files we received right here in Peru confirm Stephany Tatiana suffered fractures to the skull, severe injuries to the neck and face, blood all over the crime scene, including the bedroom floor, the bathroom floor, the bed and the hallway. As new details emerge from Van Der Sloot`s mother, a stunning psychological evaluation reveals he is capable of murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have new allegations in the Joran Van Der Sloot case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I now believe that Joran may have indeed done something to Stephany in Peru."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today the murder suspect, being held in Peru, filed a complaint against the cops who arrested him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was confused and just wanted it to end."
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Oh, boo-hoo!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe that people we`ve spoken to are correct when they say it`s a stalling tactic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "In my blind panic, I signed everything but never knew what was written on them."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the psychopathic poker player is coming out in him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s serious about this. He`s confronting the police at this point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he`s going to fight this all the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are not -- repeat not -- going to need his confession to convict him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "They kept telling me, If you sign these papers, you`ll be extradited to the Netherlands."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s already confessed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think she start to faint. It affected me so that I grabbed her from the neck and strangled her for a minute."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They already have enough evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "So I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he tries to overturn this confession, it`s going to be viewed as obstructive. If he cooperates, he may get a better deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. We are in South America, live from Lima, Peru. It`s the murder case of Joran Van Der Sloot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will Van Der Sloot stay in jail?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was really scared during the interrogations. I was confused and just wanted it to end."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Peruvian judge is expected to decide whether or not it`s even legal for him to be behind bars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was framed."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His attorney says he wasn`t properly represented when he was interrogated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was tricked. I`ll explain later how it all happened."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Peruvian police say the confession was obtained legally.
GRACE: He can`t jump up in front of a judge and say, My rights were violated, I`m recanting. Uh-uh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to transcripts of the confession, Van Der Sloot said he hit Flores in the face...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I hit her in the face exactly on top of the nose. There was blood everywhere."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... before strangling her, then suffocated her with his shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Joran is sick in his head."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But is it possible...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... we could see an insanity plea coming down?
GRACE: Lining up his defense, A, he was framed, B, he`s insane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "If he killed Stephany, he`ll have to play the price."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The standard, though, is the same as in the United States. If you happen to know right from wrong or not know right from wrong when you commit the act...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "At that time, I thought about what I was doing."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But in that confession, he said, I thought about what I was doing when I was strangling her, but I just kept doing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "So I took my shirt and put it on her face"...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is somebody who has a lot of rage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... "pressing hard"...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is a psychopath.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... "until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a shocking statement, but again, he said it, coming from his own mouth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Let`s go straight out to Victoria Macchi, investigative journalist right here in Lima, Peru. This afternoon, we were just leading our lives, and all of a sudden, we find out a complaint has been filed against the police department from Joran Van Der Sloot. What can you tell us about that?
VICTORIA MACCHI, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Jean, today we found out that the attorney that is representing Joran, Maximo Altez Navarro, has filed a complaint with the Peruvian national police against Miguel Canja (ph). He`s a colonel. He`s the one who heads up the homicide department with the Peruvian national police.
Now, the attorney and Joran are alleging that the Peruvian national police did not respect Joran`s rights, that they denied him the right to an attorney, a proper representation, that they did not have a warrant to arrest him, that the translator that they provided for him was not official, and that moreover, they didn`t have the right -- they didn`t have the warrant to take in his laptop.
CASAREZ: All right, Ellie Jostad, let me go to you, investigative reporter, producer for NANCY GRACE. Correct me if I`m wrong, but wasn`t Joran Van Der Sloot arrested in Chile, not Peru?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, you`re right about that. He was. He was taken into custody there in Chile. And as we know, he gave a completely different story, allegedly, to the Chilean authorities than he gave to the Peruvian police.
CASAREZ: Well, you know, and the fact is, not only that, Ellie, but there is videotape surveillance of him committing, allegedly, according to police, so many of these crimes. But now we also have gotten into our hands minutes before air -- this is a habeas corpus investigation. Mara Cuevas (ph), who is with "In Session" working with me, got this document just minutes ago.
I want to go back to Victoria for a second. When we`re talking about habeas corpus, we`re talking about that his rights have been violated. Tell us about this document.
MACCHI: Jean, this document was filed on June 11th, according to judicial sources. And what they`re alleging is that the documents that Joran was made to read and then sign were in Spanish, that there wasn`t an interpreter and there wasn`t a proper translation provided to him, therefore making it all null.
CASAREZ: Victoria, here`s the thing. We just spoke with defense attorney Carla Odria (ph), and she said that she was the defense attorney for Joran Van Der Sloot that night and that she sat with him, but he said he didn`t want to talk. And now we see on the habeas corpus that Lus Romero (ph) -- what is the defense attorney we see on the document?
MACCHI: The confession actually lists his -- his attorney as Lus Marina Romero Chinchay (ph). And what we found out today is that she`s not actually registered with -- as a court-appointed attorney. She`s, in fact, a private attorney.
CASAREZ: All right, let`s go to the lawyers right now. Michael Griffith, international criminal defense lawyer out of New York, Richard Herman, defense lawyer out of New York, and Jason Oshins, New York defense attorney.
First of all, Michael Griffith, just what are your impressions about everything that`s happened today?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Buenas noches (ph), Jean. Jean, he does nothing right. You know, I`ve had cases in Peru. If you cooperate with the judge, the -- you`re likely to get a mitigated sentence. They`ve got him -- they`ve got him in and out of the room. They`ve got his statements to the hotel clerk to leave her alone. They`ve got the DNA blood on his shirt. And they`ve got the consciousness of guilt of going to Chile.
I don`t understand what his strategy is, and I think that this kid better think about what his plan is because right now, he doesn`t seem to have a plan. All he`s doing is annoying the judges.
CASAREZ: OK, Richard Herman, is he going to walk free from this? Are we going to see Joran Van Der Sloot walking the streets of Lima, Peru, tomorrow?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ain`t no way, no how, Jean, are they going to let this guy out. Just as his father was connected in Aruba and we saw the treatment, the kid glove treatment he got down there, this poor woman`s father is very politically connected in Peru. There is no way tomorrow or the next day or Monday that they`re going to release him from any type of incarceration.
And this whole thing about his confession -- Jean, I`m telling you, his confession actually helps him. It mitigates his state of mind. It gives a type of manslaughter type, as opposed to an intentional murder, where he scouted her in the casino and he brought her up to his room with the intent to murder her.
The confession helps him. They don`t need the confession. If the confession is struck, they`ve got him. Circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, the video, like the attorney Mr. Griffith just said...
CASAREZ: But Jason Oshins...
HERMAN: ... the flight -- it`s bad.
CASAREZ: ... this is what we`re hearing. Jason Oshins, this is what we`re hearing. We just spoke with a defense attorney that originally was assigned to him, and he said he didn`t want to talk. So guess what? We see another defense attorney that`s on this document. What does that tell you?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, everyone, Jean (SIC) has got a different angle that they want to play. Somehow, this defense attorney thinks that maybe the best defense is a bit of an offense, and maybe he`s playing to the -- you know, to the public perception of what`s going on with Mr. Van Der Sloot. But I`m with Richard Herman. There`s no way that he`s walking, and this is too high profile a case for this jurisdiction to let him go.
CASAREZ: So if all three defense attorneys say that he`s going to stay in jail, he`s going to stay at Castro Castro. But remember, we`re not in the U.S. We`re in Lima, Peru.
Let`s go to a caller right now. Sarah in Minnesota. Hi, Sarah. How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Good. Thank you. Hello?
CASAREZ: Your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, if Stephany was able to look at his computer when she was in his room and allegedly found information about Natalee Holloway, would she -- would it have been in a language that she would have been able to understand?
CASAREZ: Wow, that`s a really good question. To Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer, what do we know about Stephany`s ability to speak English?
JOSTAD: Her father actually is the one who said she speaks English very well and that was probably the language she was speaking when she met Joran Van Der Sloot. We know that he speaks English well. The father believes that they met at the casino, they started talking in English. So we can presume that any reports written by the English language media she would be able to read perfectly well.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And to Victoria Macchi. You know, she went to a bilingual school, so she was educated in Spanish and English. Talk to us right now, what is the community sentiment about Joran Van Der Sloot actually alleging that he is a victim here in this foreign turf of Lima, Peru?
MACCHI: Well, Jean, the brouhaha about everything has kind of died down in the last weeks -- in the last week, I should say. But people are still really angry about this case. They don`t want to see him out. They`re going to do everything possible to make sure that this issue stays in the press. They definitely -- the community here thinks that he is 100 percent guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Joran is sick in his head, but wanted no help."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): How do you know she`s dead, Joran?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I just know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re talking about a guy who is totally cold- blooded, totally narcissistic and totally unempathetic. That has nothing to do with even the diagnosis of bipolar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could Joran Van Der Sloot be set free? Is it possible?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a psychological exam that calls Van Der Sloot, quote, "emotionally immature"...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... emotionally immature...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... very immature, highly dangerous...
GRACE: ... Mommy insisting Van Der Sloot is mentally ill and depressed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot doesn`t value the female role. He doesn`t value women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... contemptuous of others, especially of women.
GRACE: Van Der Sloot`s new nickname behind bars, "Psychopath."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... low tolerance toward frustration...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... poor impulse control...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... out of control...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... trace of an anti-social personality...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... thinks he`s better than everybody...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... does not tolerate when someone tries to contradict him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... blood-stained shirt...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a horrible death for this young lady.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... retracting that confession...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody cares about the confession because they`ve got the video, the statement from the hotel clerk...
GRACE: ... lining up his defense, A, he was framed, B, he`s insane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s going to be his defense, I lied about this because I lie about everything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace tonight. We are live in Lima, Peru. Joran Van Der Sloot is mounting complaints, one with the police department saying that he`s actually the victim in all of this, that his rights have been abridged and he should walk free. Will a judge allow that?
I want to go now to a very special guest. He is with us exclusively tonight by telephone from Holland. It is John Van Den Heuvel. He`s a crime reporter with "De Telegraaf." He is the reporter that got the interview with Joran Van Der Sloot here in Lima, at Castro Castro. John, thank you so much for joining us.
JOHN VAN DEN HEUVEL, "DE TELEGRAAF" (via telephone): Good evening.
CASAREZ: John, first of all, start from the beginning. How did you get this interview?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Well, I (INAUDIBLE) contact with Anita Van Der Sloot a few days or a week ago, and I asked her if she wanted to go and to -- I ask her if she want to give an interview. And I told her maybe it`s OK to give one big interview to a newspaper and for television. So she did for a few reasons. She wants to tell her side of the story and she wants to explain why she thinks Joran is completely sick in his head.
But I was there on Tuesday on Aruba for the interview. And then I asked her, Is it possible to have contact with Joran? And she had Joran several times on the phone. So I ask her, Is it a possibility that I can visit him in Peru? And she said, I cannot guarantee you that, but I can put your name on the visitors list of the Castro Castro prison, so you can try it. So she did. And I flew -- on Saturday, I flew to Peru, and on Sunday I went to the prison. And I went in and my name was on the list.
CASAREZ: So where did you talk to him? Did you get to go into the cell and talk to him or did they take you to another area?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Yes, it was in his cell. It was also the first time I met him, of course. Of course, I saw him on television directly after the arrest, and at that time he looked very confused, which is not strange, of course. But when I met him, he was amazingly relaxed and it seemed that he accepted the whole situation. He looked relaxed. He laughed sometimes and he was detached. And I spoke 20 minutes with him, and he told me something about the prison -- about the situation in the prison.
CASAREZ: Did he tell you that he killed Stephany Flores?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: No, he didn`t tell that. He didn`t deny it, but he said, I don`t want to say anything about that case. I talked to my lawyer, and he advised me to say -- to say nothing about the case. So he told me something about the situation in prison, but he didn`t want to talk about the case.
Of course, I asked him, Did you murder Stephany Flores? He said, I cannot say anything about it, that that`s the advice of my lawyer.
CASAREZ: Did he talk about that he was tricked, that he -- that they forced him to talk when he didn`t want to?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Yes. He -- - that`s what he said. He said that the police in Chile and Peru put mental pressure on him to sign the reports. And he said they put a bucket full of water near him and they threatened him to put his head under the water if he didn`t want to declare.
CASAREZ: Say that again? What did he say?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: He said there was a bucket full of water near his -- near him and he said that they threatened him that they`d put his head under water if he didn`t want to declare anything.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot`s mother, Anita, says he`s mentally ill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Joran is sick in his head but wanted no help."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... sick in his head...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He is traumatized, depressed, and has an addiction."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her son was supposed to be committed to a psych hospital but fled instead to Peru.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot is fighting his murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His attorney says he`ll argue Van Der Sloot`s confession to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he going to recant his recantation of the confession? Is he going to give a different confession and then recant that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
GRACE: When I was so worried he was going to get good time for cooperating and be out in seven years, I should have known Van Der Sloot would screw it up for himself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. It is a very cold Lima winter night, but we`re coming to you life from Lima. With us exclusively tonight from Holland is John Van Den Heuvel. He is a crime reporter for "De Telegraaf." He is the one that got the interview at Castro Castro with Joran Van Der Sloot.
We`re taking your calls live. Let`s go to Jennifer in South Carolina. Hi, Jennifer, from Lima, Peru.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean.
CASAREZ: Your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, the shirt that he took off his back and he give to her to put on, won`t his DNA be on that?
CASAREZ: That`s a very good question. To Victoria Macchi, investigative journalist. The caller is talking about that shirt that he had on. But you learned something from police investigators that we`ve never known before.
MACCHI: Right, Jean. This is the Converse shirt, beige, button-down. And in fact, what happened was he took off his shirt to then put over Stephany`s mouth and nose and asphyxiate her. And that`s actually how he ultimately killed her. Now, what we learned this week from the head of the homicide division was that after he killed her, he took that shirt, which had blood on it -- she was bleeding from her nose -- had blood on it, and he put it on her after she had died.
CASAREZ: You know, we`re so honored tonight have to Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner of Broward County, Florida. Doctor, when I heard you were on the air tonight, I was thrilled because I want to ask you these terribly troubling questions. Blood was found all over that room and in the bathroom and on the mattress, but yet Joran Van Der Sloot says he hit her once with his elbow in the nose and then he hit her head on the wall, seemingly once. Are you going to have that much blood from just that amount of hitting?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BROWARD COUNTY: Well, from the nose, there can be a large amount of blood. And injuries of the skull are very much bleeding. So that`s a very good explanation of the significant amount of blood which was found which was found at the scene. And obviously, he also assaulted the victim and probably threw her against the wall, as he said, and broke -- fractured her skull. So in view of the very severe, serious assault, all those injuries and bleeding are understandable.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It was done in a violent and ferocious manner.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Psychological evaluation, Joran Van Der Sloot.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Evidenced by the autopsy report.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A look inside his mind.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The blunt trauma.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Has a low tolerance toward frustration.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Blood all over the place.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can`t stand being contradicted.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The strangulation.
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": A simple criticism, he can become out of control.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The hemorrhage to the brain.
CASAREZ: Which can move him to commit acts against the life of another.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: New evidence about the cranial fracture.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He wants control over the opposite sex.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: He probably did slam her head against the wall.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The level of anger I think has just been revealed.
CASAREZ: He does not value the female role.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He`s no psychopath. He can perceive reality.
CASAREZ: He becomes indifferent when it comes to the wellbeing of others.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She is able to be held responsible for his crimes.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thank you for joining us here in Lima, Peru. We`re live in downtown Lima.
This afternoon we were just going about our business and all of a sudden we heard there was a complaint that Joran Van Der Sloot filed against the police. He`s alleging that he was a victim. We got that complaint.
He said he didn`t have an attorney by his side, that was one that represented him, that he didn`t have an official Dutch translator and also that his computer was taken without a valid search warrant.
So much. But at the same time that that is happening, 48 hours was able to get crime scene photos. These are very, very disturbing photos of the victim in this case. Stephany Flores. As she was found on that hotel room floor.
She was on the floor. Her body so badly, badly bruised. And that is from Lima, Peru. The hotel Tac crime scene photos.
Want to go to Ellie Jostad. We had heard tonight in our exclusive interview when we still have him with us, John Van Den Heuvel, crime -- Dutch "De Telegraaf" crime reporter, that Anita Van Der Sloot has spoken out.
What has the mother of Joran Van Der Sloot said publicly?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right, well, Anita Van Der Sloot gave an interview to Dutch TV which aired on "GMA," "Good Morning America" here in the U.S.
She says that her son is not a monster. However, she says that he has been chased for five years since the Natalee Holloway case happened. However, she did say that she believes in karma, if bad things happen that you have to pay for them.
She said also that her son called her while he was on the run. He said -- she told him, Joran, there`s a girl that`s been murdered. She was last seen with you. You need to turn yourself in.
She said that he said, oh, no, not Stephany, did something happen to her? Or something to that effect? And she repeated, you need to turn yourself in, Joran.
CASAREZ: Mister John Van Den Heuvel, reporter of "De Telegraaf," when you were in Castro Castro last weekend interviewing Joran Van Der Sloot, did he talk to you about robbers at gunpoint in that hotel room with Stephany Flores?
JOHN VAN DEN HEUVEL, REPORTER, DE TELEGRAAF, EXCLUSIVE JAILHOUSE INTERVIEW WITH JORAN VAN DER SLOOT (via phone): No, he didn`t say anything about the case as already told. He said, I don`t say anything about it because that`s the case with my lawyer.
The only thing I think what he wants is to be convicted not for murder but for manslaughter. And I talked also to the lawyer for Joran. And he explained murder in Peru can give you 35 years behind prison. And manslaughter maybe only nine years.
Everything Joran says and wants to do is to be convicted for manslaughter.
CASAREZ: So did it sound like to you that he`d been studying the penal code here in Peru? The looking at the laws?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Yes. I -- believe that. He -- he looks -- he looked very relaxed and calm, and I think he was upset in the first days after the arrest, but now he -- that`s amazing if you know -- this guy`s young, he`s only 22 years old. He had a crazy life the last five years.
I think when you`re in his position you`d be there in that hell -- you had to -- the thought that you maybe have to be there 35 years or more, I think everybody would be in panic. But this guy is very calm and relaxed and it`s really unbelievable.
CASAREZ: You know, John, I just have to ask you this because people are going to wonder. Were you paid to do this interview? Did you pay the family to do this interview?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: No. No. I didn`t pay anything. I asked Anita to give an interview. I talked to her. It was for two reasons. She wants to -- she wants to give her point of view and she wants to let the world know that she thinks that Joran is totally crazy and sick in his head, but I don`t pay nothing for the interview.
CASAREZ: All right. Let`s go to the callers. Monica in Pennsylvania. Good evening, Monica. What`s your question?
MONICA, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, good evening. Jean, you`re doing an excellent job there in Peru. My question is --
CASAREZ: Thank you.
MONICA: -- that Joran was found with coins from 12 different nations. And on a show I`ve heard mentioned of two other girls that were -- that are missing. And I was just wondering, where are they from and does he have coins? Perhaps he`s collecting a coin from each girl he has victimized? Thank you so much.
CASAREZ: Sure.
Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer, talk to us about this. How much money was found on him? And where did it come from?
JOSTAD: Yes, well, I`m just looking back at that report you guys obtained down there, and when he was caught he had currency from Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuela, Chile, Indonesia, the Philippines, Macau, Hong Kong, Malaysia, the Netherlands, as well as U.S. dollars and euros.
CASAREZ: That`s right. He had money from 12 different nations that was found in his pocket.
And to Monica in Pennsylvania, you know, why did he have it? We don`t know. But a prosecutor would say that probably he had it because he didn`t know where he was going to go next, that he might need that money.
Out to the callers. To Jennifer in Washington. Good evening, Jennifer, your question.
JENNIFER, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Hi, yes, I had a comment first. I really hope that they`re taping this in jail right now because from the kind of person he seems to be he is probably bragging himself silly to the guy he`s playing cards with.
But my question is whether if this complaint of him not having a valid warrant when he was picked up in Chile, if that is ruled in his favor, will the evidence that they found such as his laptop and what he`s told be no -- poison the tree, so to speak, or will it still be eligible in court in the -- by Peruvian law?
CASAREZ: Really good question. Let`s go first out to Ron Shindel, former New York police deputy inspector.
He`s in Castro Castro right now, and I`ll tell you something, there`s a lot of guards around there. He is in solitary confinement, but if there`s one thing I learned about Peru, they have video cameras every where. On the streets, in the buildings, in the beauty shops, every where.
Do you think they`re recording him in his cell right now?
RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Absolutely, Jean. They`re going to keep a close eye on this guy as possible. They`re going to use CCTV, they`re going to use surveillance in any way they can. They probably have a guard watching him, too, you know, 24/7.
This is their big case down there and they want to make sure it goes right. They`re going to keep their eyes on him, whether it`s through a camera or direct surveillance by an officer down there.
CASAREZ: To Michael Griffith, international criminal defense attorney, you have defended many cases here in Peru. Let`s look at the confession, let`s look at the video surveillance tape.
If there was corruption and even mistreatment of Joran Van Der Sloot during that interrogation, how do we know that the videotape surveillance, as the caller said, isn`t contaminated in some way?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, they`re usually not contaminated. These are excuses that people give when they`re guilty. He can make a complaint under the 1963 --
CASAREZ: Well, what about if it`s edited? What about if it`s edited and they can`t find the other two days before her body was found?
GRIFFITH: Well, I mean, it could be, but to my experience I doubt it. What the family should be doing now is -- you`ve heard me say before, Jean, you know, I was in that prison in Turkey, Midnight Express, my client, Bill Hayes.
That`s the Ritz Carlton compared to Lurigancho where he`s going. I don`t think he`s going to survive Lurigancho. What the family should be doing now, having their lawyer go down or you can even do it, Jean.
Go to the embassy. Go and speak to the Department of Justice and ask them what they`re doing to put pressure on him to give up where Natalee Holloway`s body is. Because he can extradited back to the U.S.
But you know, by that point eight or nine years, we can`t have the family wait that long. They must press him as to where Natalee`s body is now because he may die in Lurigancho. They`ll never know.
CASAREZ: To Rupa Mikkilineni, you brought up a great point, Natalee Holloway. Let us not forget that.
Rupa, there are some things going on in Aruba -- officially, right -- that you can report on tonight?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Jean. We`ve learned today that the Aruban prosecutors have now drafted the written request that the Peruvians have asked for in order to -- for them to travel to Peru and interview and interrogate Joran Van Der Sloot. That is happening today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: His words were, I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say he admitted to killing the 21-year- old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joran Van Der Sloot was crying when he confessed to the murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot is in court fighting his murder confession. He recants.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Claiming his rights had been violated.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot is fighting his murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: His attorney says he`ll argue Van Der Sloot`s confession to killing 21-year-old Stephany Flores Ramirez was coerced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was tricked. I`ll explain later how it all happened."
CASAREZ: Van Der Sloot, (speaking in foreign language). He will not speak.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s already confessed.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Van Der Sloot in isolation, angling a free trip home to Aruba in exchange for the location of Natalee`s body.
CASAREZ: According to "De Telegraaf" he`s saying they promised him that if he confessed that then he`d be able to fly back to Holland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was framed."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He will fight his murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was very scared and confused during the interrogations and wanted to get away."
GRACE: Van Der Sloot totally disses the Peruvian judge by not speaking in court, now says the Peruvian police tricked him.
CASAREZ: There`s nothing at all in that transcript that talks about a trip to Holland.
GRIFFITH: Forget the confession.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They already have enough evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "So I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
GRIFFITH: This guy is going to be convicted, end of story.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight, live from Lima, Peru.
I want to go back to Holland right now. John Van Den Heuvel. He is the reporter of "De Telegraaf." He got the exclusive interview with Joran Van Der Sloot coming to Castro Castro last weekend.
John, I want to ask you, did he talk about Natalee Holloway at all?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Of course, I asked him about Natalee. But it was the same as the case of Flores. He wouldn`t say anything about it. I spoke to his lawyer and he said he wants to be taken to Aruba for this case but in Peru he will not say anything about Natalee Holloway.
CASAREZ: Well, did you take him anything in his cell? Did you bring him anything?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Yes. I had some shirts from his mother that I gave to him. I gave him -- I gave the shirts to him, but that was it. Only some shirts and a trouser and that was it.
CASAREZ: So he knew that you had just been with his mother. Did he ask about his mother? What did he ask?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Yes. That was -- that was the only moment that he -- that I saw some emotions with him. When I mentioned the names of Stephany Flores and that he was totally cool until -- but when I said I spoke to your mother and that she wouldn`t come to Peru and she`s very angry at you, and then I saw some emotions on his face. It was the only moment during the interview that I said -- that I saw that he was emotional.
CASAREZ: Very interesting. Out to the callers. Janet in California.
Good evening, Janet. What`s your question?
JANET, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Well, hi. You`re doing a great job and I love Nancy.
CASAREZ: Thank you. We -- I do, too. Your question?
JANET: OK. OK. Regarding the surveillance in the hotel room, I`m just wondering -- it seems to me that it`s really evidence against him because it shows anyone coming in previous to when they went in during the time and after, it shows them going together, shows him come out. She doesn`t come out.
It just seems like very strong evidence that he killed her. And I`m wondering what the experts think on that.
CASAREZ: All right. Richard Herman, defense attorney out of New York. This is exhibit A for the prosecution, right, this videotape? I mean that`s it. You can almost prove your case just with the videotape.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s open and shut, Jean. It`s like you hear a gun go off, you open a door, there`s a gun smoking and there`s someone lying there dead, it`s over and out. That`s circumstantial evidence. It`s classic. The caller is right on. This is deadly right.
But, Jean, let me just compliment you on your outstanding coverage from Aruba. Unbelievable coverage. Keep it up. Stay out of that prison, Jean. I don`t want you to get locked up in there.
CASAREZ: Thank you. All right, Richard, I`ll take the advice. Thank you.
Victoria Macchi, yesterday we were able to obtain one of the prosecution documents from our sources here that had the psychological psychiatric opinions of experts on Joran Van Der Sloot. Summarize that for us.
VICTORIA MACCHI, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, ON LOCATION AT JUSTICE PALACE IN LIMA, PERU: Well, Jean, this is what happened. For the last -- the weeks that Joran has been in Castro Castro they`ve had a psychologist, a social worker and a medical doctor evaluating him.
And what this report that we received this week finally declared that he has anti-social personality, he`s indifferent toward others` feelings. He`s emotionally immature and he does not value the female role.
Now what we`ve also gotten from Anita Van Der Sloot`s interview with the media, that she was trying to get Joran treatment in the Netherlands for his gambling addiction as well as for personality disorder. And she`s the one who mentions the word bipolar.
CASAREZ: All right, to Caryn Stark, psychologist out of New York. You`ve read the report. You hear what they`re saying about Van Der Sloot that with a minimal conflict that he can explode and that explode can endanger the life of others. And he does not value women.
Everything you`re reading, is that a bipolar personality?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely not. Thanks for bringing that up. It is not a bipolar personality. It`s an anti-social personality. Exactly what they said. It`s somebody who really has no emotions. So I`m not surprised the reporter said he just sat there and they didn`t see any expression.
And I also feel like that he`s somebody who, what you`re describing, Jean, is impulsive, and anything can set him off. You need to be prepared for that. He`s just not somebody who goes from very depressed to very manic.
He doesn`t seem to be that way at all. He`s perfect for the definition of anti-social personality.
CASAREZ: Back to Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner of Broward County. We heard from the confession that he took her neck with his two hands, squeezed it. He banged her head against the wall. Threw her on the floor. She was still breathing, Doctor.
What was the suffering that that young woman endured?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Well, it depends how long she was conscious. But if she could have been still conscious and experienced a lot of pain and fear from the attack, and then she -- he finally strangulated or asphyxiated her.
And there were signs of asphyxiation both in the neck and in the eyes. So there was a lot of suffering most likely.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The police chief in Peru says investigators have practically closed the case.
CASAREZ: Such a gruesome homicide case. Was it premed dated? Was it something he planned ahead of time? Or was it something that happened at the spur of the event?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Van Der Sloot`s attorney said he`s going to fight the confession, fight to have it thrown out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wants to blame Stephany, that it was her fault.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight live from Lima, Peru. And exclusively from Lima to Holland, we have on phone tonight, John Van Der Heuvel. He is the reporter from "De Telegraaf," the crime reporter that came to Castro Castro right here in Lima last weekend to get the exclusive with Joran Van Der Sloot.
John, I`ve got so many more questions to ask you. I want to know if he asked you for anything when you went to Castro Castro.
VAN DEN HEUVEL: If he asked me anything?
CASAREZ: Did he ask you --
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Only -- he wants to know how it was with his mother. But I told him something about the enormous article and televisions in the world. But no, he didn`t want anything from me.
CASAREZ: How did he react to that when you told him you about all of the newspaper coverage and television coverage here in Peru? What did he say?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: He was -- yes, he was shocked about it, but after that, he laughed about it and he told me also, there was also -- not normal, of course. He said that his lawyer received a lot of letters from a woman from Peru who want to marry with him.
And he was -- there was even a letter from a girl who wants a baby of Joran. It was really unbelievable. And he --
CASAREZ: John, do you think he did it? Did he kill Stephany Flores?
VAN DEN HEUVEL: Yes. I think -- I think he did it.
CASAREZ: All right, John, thank you so much.
VAN DEN HEUVEL: I don`t know --
CASAREZ: For joining us from Holland tonight by telephone.
Tonight, let us stop to remember Army First Lieutenant Andrew Shields, 25 years old, from Campo Bello, South Carolina. He was killed in Iraq. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Army Commendation medal, Army Achievement medal.
A black belt in various martial arts. He loved mission trips and playing the trumpet. He even played the banjo. His favorite foods, sushi and ice cream. The favorite pets is three cows and his donkey Pedro.
He leaves behind his parents Emily and Donald, who also served in the Army, sister Julie, brother don, twin Phillip.
Andrew Shields, an American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests tonight. But thank you so much to you for being here. We`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern.
I`m Jean Casarez from "In Session" live in Lima, Peru. Goodnight, everybody.
END
