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American Morning
General Petraeus to Take Over Command in Afghanistan; Team USA Continues World Cup Bid; Bin Laden Hunter Returns Home to California; Interview with NYC Mayor Bloomberg
Aired June 24, 2010 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good Thursday morning to you or as we like to call it around here, Friday eve. It's the 24th of June. Thanks for joining us in the Most News in the Morning. I'm John Roberts.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: I'm Carol Costello in for Kiran Chetry. We have a lot to talk about this morning, so let's get right to it.
Confirming Petraeus. Senate leaders promising speedy hearings after the president taps the general to replace the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal. The president insisting this is a change in personnel, not a change in policy. Oh, but it comes at a critical moment in the nine-year war.
ROBERTS: The cap is back on the Gulf oil leak but not before hundreds of thousands of gallons of extra crude was unleashed into the Gulf yesterday. Details of another major setback on BP's part live from the Gulf Coast.
COSTELLO: Alive and kicking. Team America surviving to see another day. Landon Donovan's goal against Algeria with only moments remaining lifting the U.S. to the next round of the World Cup play while touching off wild celebrations across the suddenly soccer crazy USA.
ROBERTS: But we begin this morning with one of America's most famous and successful generals putting his reputation on the line by agreeing to take control of the war in Afghanistan and the 94,000 American troops fighting there this morning.
COSTELLO: President Obama nominated General David Petraeus as the top commander in Afghanistan shortly after relieving General Stanley McChrystal of his duty. The four star general done in by his own words to "Rolling Stone" magazine. The president saying his decision was not a change in strategy, but in personnel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I accepted General Stanley McChrystal's resignation as commander of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan. I did so with considerable regret. The conduct represented in the recently published article does not meet the standard that should be set by a commanding general. And it erodes the trust that's necessary for our team to work together to achieve our objectives in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Our Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon this morning. Barbara, General Petraeus is a well known quantity, but still he's going to face tough questions on the hill next week.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: He certainly will, John. The confirmation hearings expected to happen very quickly and give the Senate arms services committee a chance to open up the whole Afghan war question again. Already Senator John McCain, the ranking Republican on that committee, is raising its issue of the president's 2011 withdraw date from Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: The concern that we have is the -- and the issue that will be raised in General Petraeus' confirmation hearings is exactly what is meant by withdraw in the middle of 2011, whether that is, etched in stone as the president's spokesperson Mr. Gibbs stated, or whether it will be conditions-based.
Obviously, we feel very strongly that it needs to be condition based, because if you tell the enemy when you are leaving, then obviously it has an adverse effect on your ability to succeed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: You'll recall the president called for the beginning of troop withdrawals in July, 2011. General Petraeus has said that is not the date at which the U.S. just packs up and leaves, looks for the exits. That will be the beginning of a process. How many troops, how fast, how are we getting out of Afghanistan, all the questions to be raised that confirmation hearing, John.
ROBERTS: Barbara, Petraeus is leaving Cent-Com to leave Afghanistan. Who is taking over at Cent-Com? Do we know yet?
STARR: This is now the question. To some extent, the Pentagon used up the bench strength there. McChrystal was supposed to be the guy for Afghanistan, Petraeus the guy for the larger regional issues out there. Now both of them used up essentially, no longer available.
They have to look for someone new, and the major issue for a new central commander will be, of course, Iran. What to do about Iran, how to continue potential war planning for Iran, how to make sure that allies in the region are behind the U.S. policy there. John?
ROBERTS: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, thanks.
And in just a few minutes time we're going to talk with former army sergeant Daniel Bell and former marine corporal Rick Reyes about the changing command and what it could mean for the mission in Afghanistan.
COSTELLO: We have new information this morning about the Gulf oil leak. On day 66 of the disaster, BP says it put the cap back on that busted well, again collecting oil after another major setback in the effort to contain the leak.
Chris Lawrence is following all the latest developments from New Orleans this morning. Chris, let's talk about that setback. I mean is it fixed? Will it happen again?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is fixed in that the containment cap is on. Officials are saying it does take some time to ramp back up to full speed, so it's probably not capturing what it was before the cap came off.
That was the thing. When all this happened, the day before it captured more oil than it ever had before, about three quarters of a million gallons.
Again, you mentioned the robot bumping into it, but the big picture on this containment cap is, you know, those who want to see stricter regulations, want to see the moratorium continue, they will look at this and say this is the third time in the last couple few weeks that the cap has been off, that oil gushed out freely.
Those who want to perhaps lift the moratorium will point to this and say it was reinstalled in less than 12 hours. There is a secondary system that was still capturing some oil. You know, there are some backup plans in place.
COSTELLO: You talked about that moratorium. I know a decision has already been made by a judge. But there's another critical court decision expected today. Tell us about that.
LAWRENCE: Yes. Well, the federal government has asked for -- is appealing that decision. You know, you said, you know, we know it's in place. You wouldn't know that talking to the Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar. He was on Capitol Hill yesterday and kept talking about the moratorium that's in place, the existing moratorium.
And some of the companies that had gone to court to get this moratorium thrown out were saying it's not in place. The judge banned that moratorium.
And so, you know, the two sides really look to be locked in a stalemate, although, the secretary of interior does seem to crack the window just a bit, possibly leaving open the option of allowing some of these rigs to keep working.
COSTELLO: We'll see what happens. Chris Lawrence live in New Orleans this morning, thanks.
ROBERTS: Good news this morning. Team USA is alive and kicking today. A dramatic last-minute goal by Landon Donovan bringing the Americans back from the brink of elimination yesterday, helping the U.S. advance to the next round in the world cup play. It was a 1-0 victory over Algeria, setting up a showdown on Saturday against Ghana in the round of 16. Don't forget the U.S. lost to Ghana in 2006, 2-0, so rematch.
COSTELLO: Rematch.
ROBERTS: Coming up, change at the top in Afghanistan. McChrystal is out and the president taps General David Petraeus to run the war. What does it mean for American military men and women on the ground? We'll talk with two veterans who served in Afghanistan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Welcome back to the Most News in the Morning.
President Obama wants to make one thing perfectly clear, replacing General Stanley McChrystal as top military commander in Afghanistan with his boss General David Petraeus is a change in personnel, not in policy.
But how will the change in command affect the American boots on the ground? Joining us now, two Afghanistan veterans, former army sergeant Daniel Bell is in St. Louis and former marine corporal Rick Reyes is in Los Angeles. Welcome to you both this morning.
RICK REYES, FORMER U.S. MARINE CORPORAL: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: Sergeant Bell, I'd like to start with you.
DANIEL BELL, FORMER U.S. ARMY SERGEANT: Hi, good morning.
COSTELLO: Good morning. You served under General McChrystal, Sergeant Bell. You liked him. You believe in his strategy. For the troops on the ground, how will this affect their morale, do you think?
BELL: Well, it's difficult to really know the impact that this is going to make on the troops on the ground over there. The culture's changed a lot with the advent of Facebook and updates and Internet access on the battlefield. I think this will have a greater impact than what a lot of people realize.
Strategy isn't going to change seemingly. However, a change in command does definitely affect the way troops perceive the way battle is going.
COSTELLO: Did most troops like General McChrystal? How might they feel about this "Rolling Stone" article? Some may feel that reporter threw him under the bus.
BELL: Well, I don't know the perspective of the more conventional troops. I know within the special operations community General McChrystal was definitely a beloved leader who led from the front. And just if his example a lot of people believed in his strategy and the direction he was going.
COSTELLO: Corporal Reyes, I would like to talk about this strategy. It is controversial. It means you send in a lot of troops and they fight the enemy and live among them and try to change the government from within. And that is a tall order.
Might this be a good time, though, since there is a change in command, even though President Obama says there's no change in strategy, should there be a rethinking of the strategy though?
REYES: Well, what we hear the president say is he wants to pursue the same policy. I support the president. I think we should support the same policy. We're going about it the wrong way. We're using the wrong strategy.
This change in command should be a reassessment of what is happening on the ground. We can see through experience and history that what happened in Vietnam, the counterinsurgency in support of an unpopular government is destined to fail. It just won't work.
We're trying to achieve a military victory or find a military solution to what is an obvious political and social problem.
COSTELLO: Sergeant Bell, some soldiers have a problem with this strategy because it's sort of limits them. I mean, they can't really fight the enemy every time. They're not supposed to use lethal force unless absolutely necessary. They have problems when they capture insurgents. They go through the process. They're let go.
I mean, do you think that this strategy is really tying the hands of soldiers and then American troops will really be able to get out of there by July, 2011?
BELL: Well, I think ROE and some of the strategies we see from the perspective of the American public are definitely influenced by media. So the way that they're able to carry out a war in Afghanistan is definitely hindered by political perspective.
And I believe it's difficult for a commander having to take those things into consideration to establish rules and engagement that may benefit the military better.
It's a difficult thing when the media gets involved in warfare and what a commander is trying to carry out on the battlefield as this "Rolling Stone" article demonstrates. Just a few comments that were water cooler type comments were made and now we have the resignation of the commanding officer over there in Afghanistan.
COSTELLO: And just quickly, Corporal Reyes, I was just wondering about whether you think American troops will be able to get out of there by next year or even start to withdraw, I should say?
REYES: Well, we look at the latest progress reports out of the Pentagon, we can see that the districts that are sympathetic to Taliban or in support of Taliban are far -- are much further than the districts in support of the Kabul government.
So with that said, if we continue with the same strategy, I don't see us pulling out of there any time soon. There has to be a reassessment of the current strategy being implemented in Afghanistan.
COSTELLO: Sergeant Bell, Corporal Reyes, thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.
BELL: Thank you, Carol.
ROBERTS: Up next, Fannie Mae changing the way it does business, now saying it will go after homeowners who try to walk away from their mortgages. Christine Romans is "Minding your Business" and she's got a report coming up. It's 15 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Christine Romans is here "Minding Your Business" and getting a lot of comments on the blog.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I am. You know, talking about walking away from your home loan, if you can afford to pay the bills but you're walking away, it's an increasing trend. Fannie Mae is cracking down saying if you do this, they're going to shut you out of a Fannie Mae-backed loan for another seven years. It's going to probably ruin your credit and they could take you to court in some states to try to get that mortgage balance.
On the blogs what you're saying is basically there are two camps. As I suspected, an eye for an eye. Hey, the banks are bad actors, why can't we be? Or, two wrongs don't make a right.
There's really no middle ground here. What's very clear is that it was too easy to get a mortgage for too long, and now it's very easy for people to walk away. And this is an intensifying trend. So Fannie Mae cracking down here.
Again, remember, the United States government backed an awful lot of these loans, seven-year lock out, legal action in some states. They say you must pursue foreclosure alternatives, a loan modification, a short sale, a deed in lieu of foreclosure, any one of those. Of course, people who are walking away either because they can't pay or because they can pay and they just lost their bet on home prices, they're saying the banks aren't really working with them very well. And so they feel -- they feel OK. We just mentioned last hour a survey that said 80 percent of people said we have no problem walking away if the bank isn't working with you.
COSTELLO: I'll give you an irony. A neighbor, she wrote people's mortgages and she left her mortgage because she couldn't pay it.
ROMANS: Wow.
ROBERTS: Oh, my goodness.
ROMANS: But you don't think it got so easy to get a mortgage for so long.
ROBERTS: Yes. ROMANS: Why wouldn't people -- why would the American psyche think it's just easy to get out of it?
ROBERTS: Do you have a "Romans' Numeral" for us?
ROMANS: I do. It's 160 points. That's the number. 160 points.
ROBERTS: What default in the mortgage will take off of your credit rating?
ROMANS: If they -- if you are foreclosed on, if you walk away and the bank forecloses on you, you'll see your credit hit up to 160 points. That means you're shutout of buying another house for what -- seven years. It's the second worst thing to a bankruptcy, and you're not going to be in any kind of position to borrow money for a very, very long time. So there are ramifications, certainly from walking away from that home.
ROBERTS: You've got to watch that credit thing. I was telling you yesterday, I tried to cancel a credit card that I don't need. They said, well, you know, this could affect your credit rating.
COSTELLO: What?
ROMANS: And it will. It will affect your credit rating. But if you don't need to borrow money in the near term --
ROBERTS: Nuts.
ROMANS: If you don't need to borrow money in the near term, just, you know, you can give them the Lady Gaga finger and walk away.
ROBERTS: Or to read between the lines as Carol says.
COSTELLO: Read between the lines. Don't you like that one?
ROMANS: Yes, there you go.
ROBERTS: As she delicately puts it. Thanks, Christine.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
ROBERTS: Team USA living to see another day alive and kicking in World Cup play after a last-minute goal against Algeria yesterday. It was, perhaps, the most memorable moment in U.S. soccer history. But is America ready to embrace the other futbol? We'll find out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE COLBERT REPORT": This might shock you folks, but I actually agree with the president's decision to replace McChrystal. After all, under General Petraeus' command, we have already defeated one hostile Muslim nation. I'm referring, of course, to Algeria.
Goal. ALL: USA. USA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: That's what I wanted you to do, do the goal thing.
ROBERTS: No, I'm not going to do the goal thing.
COSTELLO: You have the voice that can do that.
ROBERTS: Richard Roth has it. He'll be coming up in just a moment. We'll get him to do it. Richard will do anything. He's like Mikey. Mikey will eat (ph) it.
Only time will tell but when Landon Donovan delivered Team USA from the brink of elimination yesterday, scoring that heart stopping last-minute goal in the World Cup, a lot of people think that it really was the moment that Americans finally fell in love with soccer like the rest of the world.
COSTELLO: Or maybe not. A lot of Americans are clearly caught up in the excitement, but they're not necessarily falling for the other futbol. Watch as CNN's resident soccer guru Richard Roth and soccer (INAUDIBLE) Max Kellerman take in the match together.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR UN CORRESPONDENT: It's about to begin.
MAX KELLERMAN, TALK RADIO HOST: Apparently something exciting just happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tremendous. Nothing like that to get the American sports fan excited.
KELLERMAN: If they were just allowed to pick up the ball and run it forward, throw it forward, I think we have something here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Goal.
KELLERMAN: It's happening. Unbelievable.
ROTH: It's offside. It doesn't count. The goal doesn't count.
Oh, oh.
KELLERMAN: This pass is for sports entertainment.
ROTH: I never groaned like this listening to any of your radio or TV reports.
KELLERMAN: I'd like to say that something almost happened.
ROTH: I really want to watch the end of the game without match.
KELLERMAN: Rooting (ph) it for him. ROTH: There's only two and a half minutes left. Max, it's been fun being with you.
Listen to that. Listen to that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: USA. USA.
ROTH: Goal. Goal. I told you. I told you there would be a goal at the end. And I missed it. I'm watching you. Oh, my -- goal.
KELLERMAN: I saw it. Something happened.
ROTH: I couldn't even find out a score because of you. Oh, yes. Good luck, Max.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Couldn't you guys find another microphone?
ROBERTS: Well, it's hard to match the sheer drama, the theater of yesterday's U.S. victory. World Cup soccer known for such compelling moments.
ROTH: I think it's one against three here. Carol, are you going to help me? I mean John doesn't sound exactly enthusiastic about yesterday's game.
ROBERTS: No, I am.
COSTELLO: I tried -- I tried to like soccer. But I'm with Max --
ROBERTS: There was 30 great seconds of --
KELLERMAN: Nothing happens. Look, 91 minutes, that's when you score a goal.
ROTH: Yesterday you were saying where is the narrative in the sport?
KELLERMAN: Yes.
ROTH: How about yesterday's match? The drama, the buildup, the narrative of the United States getting this far and then maybe being eliminated --
KELLERMAN: You're like a good point guard. You're setting me up. It must be. Because, yes, the narrative -- there was a narrative about the United States being eliminated but the entire narrative came from the context of the tournament. There was no narrative in the game itself. It was just that if the United States doesn't score this goal, they're eliminated from the tournament because of what happened with England and what happened with the other teams.
ROTH: In the game 200 countries have been playing for two years and you get to this moment and they get eliminated down to 16 teams, that's a narrative. Every four years, so you don't have a nightly basketball game and 3,000 basketball games and taped boxing matches that I watch with you from eight years ago of somebody who is probably in a mental hospital for brain damage. So, I mean, there is a compelling narrative and you saw -- as I told this pair an hour ago, listen, how many sports events in America are now available to be seen at noon daytime? People in offices around America --
(CROSSTALK)
KELLERMAN: Gives you an excuse to have a couple pints at 10:00 a.m.
ROBERTS: Did you drink?
KELLERMAN: I'm talking about --
ROTH: He's going to drive me to drink. But listen, remember the Mets-Astros, 1986, game six?
KELLERMAN: Naturally.
ROTH: Everybody remembers because it was in the daytime. Schoolchildren get out. They can't see the World Series anymore in the daytime. This --
KELLERMAN: But let's talk about baseball. This is what I mean by narrative. I mean, you could have two raindrops racing down a window and I --
ROTH: You said that yesterday. I'm still trying to understand it.
KELLERMAN: You don't have a rooting interest. If you call one Team USA and it gets there first, boy, USA, you know. But the entire --
ROTH: I think there's a cloud over your head, by the way.
KELLERMAN: In baseball, there is an adding up. Even if it's a 0-0 game, did you get to the other team's bullpen? How many pinch- hitters do you have left, et cetera. There's no adding up in soccer. Doesn't it?
It's 91 1/2 minutes play. There's no change in the conditions of the game. And then if someone scores at the end, they win. In football, it can be war of physical attrition. How did your linebackers and offensive line, defensive line contain the running game, et cetera? There's an early kick.
COSTELLO: And they overtly hit one another which is really compelling.
ROTH: It is one against three. Listen, the --
ROBERTS: There was blood yesterday.
KELLERMAN: Come on. I can't believe it because every five seconds you --
COSTELLO: Somebody's elbow went into --
KELLERMAN: You were writhing on the ground in pain. On the replay, clearly there was no injury. They hopped up and they kept playing.
ROTH: Well, because they don't take steroids like all of your other sports. Listen --
ROBERTS: Cool, cool, cool.
KELLERMAN: Nor do they take physical contact apparently.
ROTH: Yes, come on out there. I need our executive producer to come out there or maybe they just cut his mike.
Look, the sport is built on anticipation and build up. And you're of this generation that apparently wants excitement.
KELLERMAN: To be entertained.
ROTH: You want to be gratified every second. You got to have -- here you have 11 players working as a team.
KELLERMAN: You know what it sounds like? It sounds like the grumpy old man, Dana Carvey. In my day, nowadays, they want entertainment. In my day, we waited 91 1/2 minutes for something to happen and we loved it.
ROTH: The U.S., by the way, beat England in 1950. I wasn't really around for that point. But the sport is the beautiful game around the world. Maybe there's something wrong with the United States.
COSTELLO: You said beautiful game. Someone described it to me this way, that soccer is like a ballet. And I'm thinking to myself if, I want to see a ballet --
KELLERMAN: I felt just like I was at a ballet.
COSTELLO: I'm not going to be in the bar at 9:30 in the morning.
ROTH: I don't think I have to say anything to win this argument actually. I think I should just let everyone here talk.
KELLERMAN: Richard, I believe in American exceptionalism, and I'm sorry if you don't. American exceptionalism. That's displayed in American football in --
ROTH: Do you have a passport?
KELLERMAN: I do.
ROTH: OK. So if you went around the world and you saw some of these matches and the passion, that's the problem here. America, we have all these great sports and, as you have indicated and I agree, we're -- soccer is sharing the limelight.
ROBERTS: I'm coming to Richard's side here. It was an amazing -- it was an amazing 30 seconds.
KELLERMAN: Yes. It was an amazing 30 seconds.
ROTH: I don't want you with that type of help. I don't need that.
KELLERMAN: Look, it was amazing watching it with Richard whose passion on a normal person might be infectious. Maybe I'm not a normal person but I hate to play the heel here. I felt like I was ruining his time.
ROTH: Yes. There were people at the bar who were looking at you, who is this lunatic here knocking the sport? Why are they here in the daytime with us ruining my --
ROBERTS: He does have an infectious nature to his persona.
ROTH: These are athletes. Ronaldinho, Ronaldo (ph), Rooney (ph), American people know them better, I repeat this argument, better than the second baseman on the Milwaukee Brewers or the point guard who's going to be drafted eighth in the NBA tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLERMAN: But not Kobe Bryant or LeBron James.
ROBERTS: Guess what?
ROTH: Because of marketing and superior dollars.
ROBERTS: This game is over. And there are no extra periods. But I just want to say, he does have an infectious personality. Because yesterday I saw him holding an intern's attention wrapped as he was having a discussion with her and there was a pile of newspapers this high between the two of them.
Now it has to get personal. OK. Some of those newspapers have a lot of articles on soccer, by the way.
Richard, thank you for inviting me to watch the game with you. I had a lot of fun.
ROBERTS: You did look like you bonded.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: With that one microphone. That was good.
ROBERTS: All right. It's 30 minutes after the hour. Time for this morning's top stories.
Senate leaders promising quick confirmation hearings for General David Petraeus. The current CentCom commander was nominated by President Obama to replace General Stanley McChrystal as the top man in Afghanistan. McChrystal was relieved of his command after he and his aides made explosive comments to "Rolling Stone" magazine slamming numerous high level members of the administration.
COSTELLO: Another developing story this morning, a case of home grown terror. Pakistani court convicting five Americans on terror charges, sentencing them to 15 years a piece. The young Muslim men are from the Washington, D.C. area.
They were arrested in Pakistan back in December after their families reported them missing.
ROBERTS: The Bin Laden hunter is back home in Colorado this morning. Gary Faulkner landed in Los Angeles yesterday after being released in Pakistan without charge. Police there say they picked him up near the Afghan border carrying a pistol and a sword. The 50- year-old U.S. citizen says he's been there seven times looking for Bin Laden. He spoke exclusively to CNN when he got off the plane.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How does one go about trying to find Osama Bin Laden?
GARY FAULKNER, HUNTED BIN LADEN: You don't. You let the spirit guide you. And unless you have the spirit of god, not as Mother Mary or some Mohammed or something like that, god almighty has to put his hand upon you. I've been protected. I'm here right now. I was protected this time, every time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, have you seen him?
FAULKNER: I haven't seen him personally. But he's very close. We'll just put it to you that way. I can't divulge too much because there's still very many people that have helped me and their lives are in danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Faulkner would not say whether he felt that he ever got close to the Al Qaeda leader.
COSTELLO: There was new stunning information this morning that could help the American hikers held in Iran.
ROBERTS: New claims that a rogue Iranian soldier may have played a role in this year-long nightmare for three families.
COSTELLO: Susan Candiotti has been following their story since the beginning. And it's interesting. But you have to wonder if it will really matter to Iran.
In the end, that's the big question. Will Iran do anything with this new information or just blow it off?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. We'll have to see. We're reporting this for the very first time on CNN. It is new information that could help prove the hikers' contention that they did not cross the border illegally from Iraq into Iran. In fact, it appears to show it was Iranian police who illegally crossed the border into Iraq to arrest the hikers.
The "Nation Magazine" reports exclusively that they found two witnesses, Kurdish villagers, who said they saw the whole thing go down. They watched the three hikers Shane Bauer, Sara Shourd, and Josh Fattal hiking along an unmarked mountain trail in Iraq, not Iran. The villagers were curious as they were watching these westerners and they said they saw Iranian police go after the hikers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD KIM, NATIONAL EDITOR, "THE NATION": They fired a round in the air. They used threatening and menacing gestures to beckon the hikers over into Iran. And when they hesitated, that's when they crossed the border and picked up the Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Now "The Nation's" five-month investigation also reports that a revolutionary guard officer, a rogue officer who likely ordered the hikers to be detained, is said to be running a gang. And he has since been arrested on kidnapping, murder, and rape charges.
COSTELLO: I know you talked to the hikers' mothers about this.
CANDIOTTI: Oh, sure.
COSTELLO: Were they heartened by this information?
CANDIOTTI: Well, they said they were fascinated by it because when they met with their children just last month, they were never alone with them. They could never speak with them without being monitored. And so they never got the story firsthand about what really happened. So now finally they're piecing things together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It really resonates with what I was feeling. I just didn't feel like something was right. You know, again, hearing the story kind of terrifies me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is fresh news to us. And to hear some of this stuff, you know, we have to focus and assimilate this. But it's shocking. You know, it's shocking that it hasn't come out in the public, that it happened to these kids, and that this is the reason they're being held.
KIM: It's certainly a window for them to say this was a mistake on many levels and we're going to release the three Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CANDIOTTI: But will the Iran's government do that? Shane Bauer, one of the hikers has written for "The Nation" magazine from Iraq. So it's the hope of the families that this might exert some sort of pressure on the Iranian government to free their children.
COSTELLO: You just can't see the Iranian government admitting, oh, yes, we dragged them over the border.
CANDIOTTI: Highly unlikely. But the hope is, again, this will create some buzz to get people talking about this again and perhaps that will spur some kind of movement to get them out. Every bit of publicity in the view of the families certainly helps to keep the story out there.
ROBERTS: Certainly a good piece of publicity for them as to what the Iranian government will do about it, as you say.
Susan Candiotti this morning. Thanks so much.
CANDIOTTI: You're welcome.
ROBERTS: Immigration reform. Mayor Michael Bloomberg of the city of New York along with other mayors across the country and some CEOs from some very big corporations getting together with a major new push on immigration reform. But shouldn't the federal government be doing that? It's 36 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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ROBERTS: 39 minutes after the hour. Frustrated by the slow pace of change in Washington, the National Coalition of Mayors and business leaders led by New York's Michael Bloomberg is launching a campaign for comprehensive immigration reform.
They say it's vital for America's future economic health. Mayor Michael Bloomberg joins us now to talk about it. We were talking a lot about your iPad. But we'll switch to immigration reform this morning. Why are you and this group of mayors and CEOs taking this on? The president has said he wants to look into immigration reform. It is a federal issue.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: It is a federal issue, but it's an issue that impacts my ability to work, your ability to work. This country was created by immigrants. Half of the people that win Nobel Prizes in psychics here were born overseas.
Intel was started by immigrants. Google was started by immigrants. Yahoo was started by immigrants. The next drugs that we're going to need to save our lives are being created by immigrants. And if we don't keep those immigrants here in this country, it's other countries that are going to eat our lunch. That's where the next great things are going to be. And we can't afford that.
We passed a health care bill, we insured 45 million more people. There are no doctors for them. You have to have doctors.
ROBERTS: Certainly this country is one that was built on immigration. I visited Ellis Island just a couple of weeks ago just to refresh my memory about all of that. But skeptics of immigration reform would say this country was built on legal immigration, not by illegal immigration.
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ROBERTS: Not by undocumented immigrants.
BLOOMBERG: Number one, we didn't have laws in those days. And number two, in all fairness, there were probably 12 million undocumented here, you and I were as complicit as they were. We all wanted them here. We brought them here, we closed our eyes and we winked because we needed them to build our economy. And you can't do anything about it today.
You're not going to deport more people than live in Illinois. You can't do it. It is physically impossible.
ROBERTS: What about the theory -
BLOOMBERG: Solve the problem. Sitting here and complaining about what happened before, I'm not about that.
ROBERTS: What about the theory though if you stop employers from hiring illegal immigrants they will go back to their country of origin because they can't get a job? So you don't have to deport them. They will go back on their own.
BLOOMBERG: You can have one minor problem in that, we need them. Who do you think picks the crops? Who do you think works in the restaurants? Who do you think takes the jobs that Americans don't do? Our economy would crash if you tried to get that.
Yes, here's what you have to do, close the borders. Why? Because we should decide who comes here, not what the people who want to come here decide. Number two, make sure employers can tell whether people are or are not legal. Because if you're going to have a law that says you can't employ somebody that's not, they have to have a practical way to find out.
Let me finish. And then we need more immigrants. They're the ones that are going to build our businesses. We got 12 million here. They are not going to leave. Maybe some will go home when the economy is softer. But we need them. Let's give them permanent status. Make them learn English, make them understand our laws and get on with it and go forward.
Those critics, all they want to do is tear everything down. We're about - America is about building the future.
ROBERTS: First, big technical point, from what you just talked about. Securing the border. How do you do it? Because the invisible fence hasn't worked very well. BLOOMBERG: I don't think that's -
ROBERTS: They scrapped funding for it. Nobody wants to pay the money to build a fence across the entire border between the United States and Mexico, so How do you secure the border?
BLOOMBERG: You will never have a border where nobody, literally nobody gets through. All you have to do is reduce it by a large percentage and essentially you have that. And, in fact, with stepped up border patrols, that has worked. It does not seem to be a big influx of new people coming across.
ROBERTS: The economy, though, is responsible for a lot of that.
BLOOMBERG: Regardless, all I care about is the effect. You want to go and tear apart everything. You have to continue to fight on all fronts at the same time. Make sure that we control our borders. Make sure that laws of this country are enforced and give an awful lot of visas. You go out to Vancouver and all of the West Coast companies are opening office in Canada.
Why? Because the engineers they need can't get into this country. The doctors we need aren't in the Midwestern towns where they don't have doctors. You have to drive two hours for a doctor. If you have a stroke, you're dead in two hours - we have to, we need these people. These are the people that built this. I don't know, the greatest economic power in the world was built by immigrants. And then there are some that say, well, immigrants don't matter. What proof do you need?
ROBERTS: Another big point. You want to get the 12 however million people who are undocumented in this country a path to citizenship.
BLOOMBERG: No, I didn't say.
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BLOOMBERG: I think there is nothing wrong with that. But a path to permanent status here. We are not going to deport them. If you just accept that -
ROBERTS: But that in many people's minds, we saw what happened to John McCain in the 2008 campaign is taken to be amnesty. And when you raise the "A" word (INAUDIBLE)
BLOOMBERG: I will grant you amnesty because you and me as well, we all knew these people were coming into this country illegally. And we all abetted their illegal entry. Congress did. You want to go back and indict every congressman that passed laws and then didn't fund the federal government's ability to enforce them? We're all part of this.
And that was in the past. Let's go forward and build the country. I want to build a country for my children and my grandchildren. I don't want to sit there and argue about what your grandfather did versus my grandfather. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It doesn't make a lot of sense - that's not the way Americans work.
ROBERTS: Mayor Bloomberg, great to see you this morning. Thanks so much for coming in.
BLOOMBERG: Thank you for having me.
ROBERTS: Appreciate it. Carol.
COSTELLO: Well, have you ever heard of Ron Wayne? He happens to be the third founder of Apple. Guess what? He sold 10 percent of his stake for $800. Guess what it would be worth today, $22 billion. So is he bitter? You'll meet him next.
Also, some really bad weather heading our way in the east and the northeast. Stormy weather in the south. It's hot. Bonnie Schneider will have the latest for you when we come back.
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COSTELLO: Good morning, Boston. In case you're wondering, if you haven't gone outside yet, partly cloudy, 76 degrees. But later in the day, I guess you should bring your umbrella because expecting strong storms and a high of 88.
ROBERTS: So yesterday there was a little rocking and rolling in Canada. And - and Canada - and I can say this fondly because I - I grew up there. It's kind of like a soccer match, 90 minutes of nothing and then 30 seconds of sheer panic and - and exhilaration.
Bonnie Schneider taking a look at what happened there yesterday. They got a little bit of a wakeup.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Oh, yes. That's right. A tornado in Midland Canada. That's right over here. You can see pretty close to the U.S., near Lake Ontario. We have some pictures to show you of what it looked like. Quite a bit of damage.
You know, once you cross the U.S. border into Canada, certainly you don't lose the threat of tornadoes. Canada has its own Tornado Alley and you can see that here, highlighted all the way back in Calgary through Winnipeg, down to Toronto where we have areas highlighted in red where there are tornadoes that pop up annually.
Now, the main thing to note is that this area does see tornadic activity pretty much around the same time of year into the early summer, and we also tend to see less tornadoes in Canada, generally speaking, only an average of eight a year. Compare that to the U.S. where you have over 1,200 on average a year.
Well, let's talk about severe weather for today. We're seeing it popping up across much of Upstate New York and it's only going to get worse. We are watching an area of severe weather firing up for this afternoon right where all the hot temperatures are, all the way across Northern Virginia, West Virginia, and straight up through Maine. That's where we could see some severe storms later this afternoon.
Here's the way it's shaping up right now, really hot out there. We mentioned temperatures in Boston right now in the 70s, but look at the heat, soaring into the triple digits in some areas. It will feel like it's 100 degrees in Philadelphia today, so be careful. Watch out for that heat warning. It goes straight through the evening hours.
Back to you.
ROBERTS: Hey, Bonnie, actually what I was getting to, I thought you were going to talk about the earthquake. Canada -
SCHNEIDER: You're right. Canada had a rough day. They had an earthquake and a - and a tornado. Yes. That's right.
ROBERTS: But we've got - we've got some pictures here, 5.0 earthquake. Take a look at this, Jack Leighton, NDP member of government, about to give a press conference, and uh-oh. It's time to fold up the papers and leave.
COSTELLO: Look at his face. He's saying, "What the hell?"
ROBERTS: One moment, he's out of the desk pretty quickly.
My sister lives in Toronto, and she says she felt it just a little bit but she thought that it was the collective thumping of - of the boots of all the police who have gathered in Toronto for the upcoming G-20 summit. So -
COSTELLO: That would - that would be frightening, actually.
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COSTELLO: -- an earthquake.
ROBERTS: Look at that, earthquake, tornadoes, G-20 coming up. It's the place to be.
COSTELLO: I know. Maybe we should visit. Well, some of us are, actually, from CNN.
This morning's top stories, just minutes away, including the man who turned around the war in Iraq, now in command in Afghanistan. Can General David Petreaus do it again? We'll have a reaction to the president's decision from the Pentagon and the battlefield.
ROBERTS: Thirty-seven minutes after the hour, it's 2.5 million gallons a day. Is it enough to change minds? Why some environmentalists see the gulf disaster as "Gut Check" time.
COSTELLO: And up next, the other Apple guy, the man who helped Steve Jobs get it off the ground. (INAUDIBLE) share of the company for $800. Ouch. As the new iPhone hits stores, does he have any regrets? This story and much more at the top of the hour.
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ROBERTS: Fifty-four and a half minutes after the hour.
Just important clarification before I - my friends in Canada e- mailed me. That was not NDP leader Jack Leighton. There's a press conference in his (ph) offices so - they you're rattling, rocking and -
COSTELLO: Your friends e-mailed you this -
ROBERTS: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Are you kidding? Come on.
COSTELLO: Do they compliment you, too on e-mails?
ROBERTS: It's like - it's like old home week, every day.
FedEx's online tracking system back up and running this morning after a software glitch caused them to crash yesterday afternoon. The (INAUDIBLE) is coming just as many people were expecting delivery of their new iPhone G-4. That had buyers flooding the FedEx web site for tracking updates.
FedEx says package deliveries are proceeding now as normal.
COSTELLO: That's right, so calm down.
The iPhone 4 is also - well, they're hitting the stores across the nation today, too. Industry experts all say it looks like another huge hit for Apple. And if you know the story of Apple's history, you probably know the names of its co-founders, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs. But did you know there was a third?
Our Dan Simon has his story in this "A.M. Original".
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RON WAYNE, APPLE CO-FOUNDER: These are from Germany.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His net worth is mostly tied up in his coin and stamp collection.
WAYNE: I played penny machines, mostly the poker machines.
SIMON: A few days a week, he drives himself to a casino, hoping one day he'll hit the jackpot.
He's 76, retired, lives in this modest home outside of Las Vegas in Pahrump, Nevada. He gets by off his monthly social security check.
WAYNE: I'll put it real simple. I've never been rich.
SIMON: A lot of people face similar challenges, except how many can honestly say they could have been a billionaire, more than 20 times over? If only he could have seen it.
SIMON (on camera): You know that when people hear your story they say to themselves, my gosh. $22 billion. You could have had it.
WAYNE: What can I say? I mean, you - you make a decision based upon your understanding of the circumstances, and you live with it. This is - you know, that's the best you can do. There's nothing you can do about yesterday.
SIMON (voice-over): Ron Wayne is the third founder of Apple. He designed the company's first logo and the first operating manual.
SIMON (on camera): With these signatures right here, Apple computer was formed?
WAYNE: Yes.
SIMON (voice-over): This 1976 legal agreement shows his name alongside the well-known founders, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs.
Wayne, an engineer by trade, had befriended Jobs who he says wanted his help in forming the company.
SIMON (on camera): This is the contract right here?
WAYNE: Yes.
SIMON: And it says Ron Wayne gets 10 percent of the business.
WAYNE: Yes.
SIMON: And you're happy with that?
WAYNE: Of course. I had - I had no investment in it. It was a fascinating thing.
SIMON (voice-over): But only 11 days after Apple came into existence, Wayne had second thoughts.
WAYNE: I felt, very honestly, that the way these guys were going, they were going to bulldoze their way through anything to make this company succeed, but it was going to be a very rough ride and if I wasn't careful, I was going to wind up the richest man in the cemetery.
SIMON: He says he was worried about being on the hook for debts the company would incur. At the time, Wayne's 10 percent stake netted him just $800.
WAYNE: As far as I was concerned, it was found money, and I didn't want to get in anybody's way, and why should I - why would I possibly do that anyhow?
SIMON (on camera): At the time, you were pleased to take it?
WAYNE: Absolutely. SIMON (voice-over): Throughout the years, Wayne has held various jobs as an engineer. He's never had a particular fascination with computers.
SIMON (on camera): How many Apple products have you bought over the years?
WAYNE: In round numbers? About as round a number as you can get. I've never owned an Apple product.
SIMON (voice-over): Wayne says he's not jealous of Steve Jobs or Apple's success and says it's useless to waste time wondering what if.
He last spoke to Jobs 10 years ago.
WAYNE: I don't think anybody could have imagined the success that Apple did become, but I knew that it would be a successful enterprise because the people who were driving it were skilled and capable and dynamic and focused.
SIMON: Wayne is hoping to finally cash in on his Apple connection with a forthcoming book. The title, "Adventures of an Apple Founder".
Dan Simon, CNN, Pahrump, Nevada.
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ROBERTS: Can you imagine?
COSTELLO: You want - you think, well, maybe Steve Jobs should give him some money. But then, the other side, you think - thinks, well, he pulled out.
ROBERTS: Yes. Once a business decision -
COSTELLO: He didn't take the risk.
ROBERTS: What - what's strange, though, is he didn't want to take the risk on Apple but that he gambles in casinos (ph).
COSTELLO: Yes. Well, he's trying the hit the jackpot again since he missed the last one.
ROBERTS: Boy, did he ever miss the jackpot. Can you imagine, turn his $800 into $22 billion?
COSTELLO: I'd just be in my room, sleeping constantly after that.
ROBERTS: And Einstein said the most powerful thing in the - powerful force in the universe was compound interest. No, it's Apple Computer, definitely.
Top stories coming your way right after the break. Stay with us.
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