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Nancy Grace
DNA Under Stephany`s Nails Still Being Tested
Aired June 24, 2010 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Alabama beauty Natalee Holloway, missing off her high school senior trip, Aruba. Aruban police refuse to make a case against judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot after he admits he hid the body. Tonight, live, Peru, Van Der Sloot kills again. Another young girl meets him at a resort casino. Just hours later, she`s dead, brutally beaten, bloody, her neck broken, partially clothed on Van Der Sloot`s hotel room floor.
After a massive manhunt, Van Der Sloot captured. Spine-chilling video of Van Der Sloot with 21-year-old Stephany just before she`s found dead. Bloody clothes from the murder found with Van Der Sloot on the run. We learn after beating her to a pulp and cracking her neck, he kicks back with a cup of coffee and Danish just inches from the dead body. His new nickname, "psychopath."
Reports Van Der Sloot high on pot and loaded with 10 Pisco (ph) sours plus rum and Coke the night Stephany`s murdered. Van Der Sloot now declaring, I was tricked. That`s right, he claims he was framed into confessing by Peruvian police, forced into his confession. Also, in a stunning claim, he says he`s the victim, Van Der Sloot whining his rights violated, including threats of torture. Wah-wah!
We learn coroner files reveal the dead girl`s fractures to the skull, injuries to face and neck, and she was strangled, blood drenching the crime scene, the bedroom floor, the bathroom floor, the bed, the hallway.
Bombshell tonight. Literally in the moments before we go to air, we confirm DNA is found under the dead girl`s nails, proving a ferocious struggle with the hulking Dutchman. We also learn from secret police files Van Der Sloot conducted a major clean-up in that bloody hotel room, but not cleaning up Van Der Sloot. We learn when he`s busted, he calls Mommy.
And tonight, was Stephany drugged before murdered? On the heels of his claims police torture, reports Van Der Sloot set for transfer to an even more notorious prison, Lurigancho. Tonight, Stephany`s official autopsy report released, along with police crime scene photos and photos of the dead girl`s hands and feet covered in bruises.
As marriage proposals from female fans pour in, Van Der Sloot`s mother claims it`s all because the media hounded him, suggesting he`s bipolar. As Van Der Sloot`s story starts to fall apart, he also claims he`s set up by the FBI, lured to Peru. That`s right, it`s all the FBI`s fault! We debunk that theory tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Van Der Sloot actually accuses the police of violating his rights.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was tricked."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s insisting that he is the victim.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was framed."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told a Dutch newspaper reporter that Peruvian police threatened to dunk his head in a bucket of water if he wouldn`t sign that confession.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I was really scared during the interrogation. I was confused and just wanted it to end."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I met him, he was amazingly relaxed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "She started bleeding, and immediately, I got on top of her and with both hands, I started to strangle her."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He laughed (ph) sometimes and he was very detached.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I think I wanted to kill her because I wasn`t thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course, I ask him, Did you murder Stephany Flores?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, I cannot say anything about it. That`s the advice of my lawyer.
GRACE: He has been free to murder again!
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, (through translator): I just touched her, and there wasn`t anything anymore. It was over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s been five years and -- ironically, five years to the day.
ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER: He says, Mom, don`t be upset because everything will be fine. I know I`m innocent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything he said before -- if his lips were moving, he was telling a lie!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He lied much that we became desperate."
ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: I have no reason not believe him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I believe Joran, despite his many lies."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what to believe from here? Hard to tell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Literally in the moments as we go to air, we confirm DNA found under Stephany Tatiana`s nails proving a ferocious struggle with the hulking Dutchman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran Van Der Sloot is mounting complaints, one with the police department...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "In my blind panic, I signed everything but didn`t even know what it said."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... saying that he`s actually the victim in all of this...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said that the police in Chile and Peru put mental pressure to sign the reports.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that his rights have been abridged...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a bucket full of water. And he said they threatened him that they`d put his head under water if he didn`t want to declare anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and he should walk free.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will a judge allow that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ain`t no way, no how.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now his own mother seems to be turning on him. She says her son was supposed to be admitted to a psych hospital.
ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: We tried to do everything as normal as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Joran is sick in his head but wanted no help."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has no remorse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... connected to the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) hardass tremendously...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How`s Joran holding up?
PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT, FATHER: He has a difficult time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you and your wife, are you holding up all right?
PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT: We have also a difficult time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I felt he has nothing to do with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2005. He had left her on the beach. I still believe that."
ANITA VAN DER SLOOT: This could have happened to any 17-year-old teenager that goes out...
CHRIS CUOMO, ABC NEWS: Did it seem like a wrong thing to do, leaving the girl on the beach like that?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: At that moment in time, to me, it wasn`t the wrong thing. I mean, it`s not something (INAUDIBLE) I would do. It`s not normal. It`s not right at all.
CUOMO: But you did it?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s Van Der Sloot talking to ABC`s Chris Cuomo about Natalee Holloway back in 2006.
I want to go straight to Lima, Peru. Standing by along with Jean Casarez is Victoria Macchi, investigative reporter. That is quite a bombshell. Our suspicions confirmed in the last hour, Victoria, that DNA found under Stephany Tatiana`s fingernails, proving a ferocious fight with the hulking Dutchman. What can you tell us, Victoria?
VICTORIA MACCHI, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Nancy, I just literally an hour ago finished talking with Miguel Kanja (ph), who`s the head of the homicide division here. He confirmed for us that, indeed, they did find skin under Stephany`s nails. Now, the DNA results haven`t come back yet. He couldn`t provide that to me. He couldn`t confirm that it was Joran`s. There`s definitely DNA under her nails.
GRACE: Explain to me how you learned this and how long you think it will take to confirm that it`s Van Der Sloot`s DNA.
MACCHI: I`ve been talking with the head of homicide all this week. He`s been giving us information about the case. And he`s the one who confirmed it with us just literally hours ago. And he said that it could take a few weeks to hear back from this. They sent that -- they sent that DNA for processing a few weeks back. They still don`t have the results.
GRACE: And Victoria Macchi, investigative journalist joining us along with Jean Casarez tonight, there live in Peru. We are taking your calls live. Victoria, what can you tell me about the clean-up that Van Der Sloot undertook inside that death room, the hotel room where Stephany Tatiana was found?
MACCHI: The same homicide -- head of homicide who told me about the DNA also said that Joran put in a lot of effort to clean up. There was a lot of blood around except he cleaned up with the sheets and the bedspread, which he then left in the room.
GRACE: Well, after all that effort, he still didn`t -- he didn`t throw away the sheets he used for the clean-up? What do you mean by clean- up? What did he do...
Everyone, right now, you are seeing photos that we obtained of Stephany Tatiana`s tennis shoes, and they are spattered in blood. These are newly obtained shots of Stephany`s hands, her feet. As you can see, they are covered in bruises -- covered. Elizabeth, if you, and Dana, could show me again her hands? I`m especially interested in the dead girl`s hands. There are shots of her tennis shoes, shots more in depth than we have seen before. Her hands -- hold that shot -- bruising all along her hands, up between the fingers. I would be surprised if some of the nails aren`t even torn off due to the ferocious struggle.
Back, please, Dana, to the tennis shoes. You are seeing newly obtained photos of Stephany Tatiana`s tennis shoes, her hands and feet. I don`t see it as well on this one, but in another tennis shoe shot, you see blood drenching the shoes. Her hands, a very disturbing shot, her feet, very disturbing shot, covered in bruises.
This is the shot of the tennis shoes that show just how much she was bleeding. Now, we know that her hands and feet were bare, so she didn`t have these shoes on at the time. This is blood slung across the room during that mighty struggle she put up to save her life. This is the hand of Stephany Tatiana, the feet of the dead girl.
Newly obtained crime scene photos are now released, as well. We now know what the hotel attendant said to police when she first gave her statement.
Out to you, Jean Casarez. What did the hotel staffer say to police about what she observed in that room?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, what she saw when she first looked in -- she heard the TV blaring, saw the lights on, saw something on the floor, thought it was Joran Van Der Sloot because that`s who she expected to find. And then she saw that it was a female with long dark hair, and then she saw all the blood. And so she immediately called the police.
GRACE: These are shots from Pan Americana TV, this an extremely disturbing photo, the crime scene obviously drenched.
With us tonight, crime scene analyst Sheryl McCollum. We are taking your calls live. Sheryl, weigh in.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: Nancy, what strikes me the most is all of her injuries are to the front of her body, her eyes (ph), the scratches on her neck, the bruises on her face, the blunt force trauma to the abdomen. This was a face-to-face attack. He deliberately destroyed this child. He knew the date, and he knew what he was doing. This was not about money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She hit him, he says, on his left temple.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he took his right elbow and hit her in her nose. And he said that there was blood everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... his version, that it was an impulsive act...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I remember what I was doing but not the motive."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Premeditation can be made in the blink of an eye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: ... Van Der Sloot booked into Peru`s most notorious jail...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... confessed killer...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... try to get Joran to talk in prison...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a confession in a high-profile killing...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s an honor student.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... no sense of the consequences of his own actions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He loves history, economics, politics. His favorite subject is physical education.
GRACE: ... pathological liar...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... no conscience...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was diabolical and methodical in dyeing his hair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... easily escalates into violence...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He enjoys being active.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This may be a serial killer we have on our hands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran is -- has been outlawed, really outlawed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn`t value women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... contemptuous of others, especially of women...
CUOMO: Did it seem like a wrong thing to do, leaving a girl on the beach like that?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: At that moment in time, for me it wasn`t the wrong thing. I mean, it`s not something a real man would do. It`s not normal. It`s not right at all.
CUOMO: But you did it.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Jean Casarez, standing by live there in Lima. Jean, what can you tell us?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, last night, the interview with the "De Telegraaf" reporter was so vivid into the state of mind of Joran Van Der Sloot. You got that exclusive on your show. And the one thing that he said was Joran Van Der Sloot kept going over and over about the penal code of Peru and that murder was 35 years, but if he could get this into manslaughter that it would only be about seven, nine years he would have to serve. And it was very intent (ph) of his focus on this case.
GRACE: Now, Jean, where is he getting all this?
CASAREZ: You know, that`s a good question. We did hear some things about that he`s having some conversations with the alleged Colombian hitman next door, a lot of conversations, that they`re going back and forth. Now, whether it`s about legal strategy or not, I don`t know. More than likely not. His attorney, Maximo Altez, has talked to him about it. But it`s on his mind. It`s his the focus of his state of mind.
GRACE: Another issue tonight is the autopsy report, just released, the official autopsy of Stephany Tatiana. And I`m wondering -- you know, I`m going to go to Dr. Panchali Dhar, doctor of internal medicine, author of "Before the Scalpel." She`s joining us out of New York. Doctor, thank you for being with us. Doctor, in the autopsy report, we don`t hear anything about the possibility that she fought back. Also, when we`ve observed Joran Van Der Sloot being examined, we don`t see scratches. We don`t hear about bruises. In fact, even the coffee shop woman that sold him that Danish and the coffee didn`t see any bruising, any scratches, nothing. Of course, that could be due to the timeline, that the murder had not occurred yet.
But what would you expect to see on her body in that autopsy report, Dr. Dhar?
DR. PANCHALI DHAR, INTERNAL MEDICINE: Well, her neck was broken, which means Joran not only ripped the bones of his neck apart but he tore the muscles, the ligaments and ultimately the spinal cord, instant death from not being able to breathe. It looks like it`s all blunt trauma. It`s not penetrating trauma. He didn`t use a knife.
GRACE: But all the blood! His hotel room was drenched with blood.
DHAR: Yes.
GRACE: And now we learn DNA under her fingernails.
DHAR: Right. She was struggling and probably scratching all over his body. And that blood comes from her nose. You can bleed to death right from your nose. He hit her so hard on the nose that she was hemorrhaging out of her nose. The ankle bruises look like she was potentially tied up for a period of time and beaten at that moment. You know, there was a huge struggle going on. He didn`t...
GRACE: How would you explain the eye literally hanging out of the socket?
DHAR: Head trauma. The autopsy also shows that she had a skull fracture. She had what is called a subarachnoid hemorrhage, which is a bleed in the brain. So he was hitting her over the head, and she lost consciousness. And he overpowered her. He`s a huge guy. She did not have a chance.
GRACE: Straight out to Michael Griffith, international criminal defense attorney. Michael, now reports emerging that he is about to be moved, as you predicted at the get-go, to Lurigancho. What does it mean?
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He`s entering the gates of hell. Nancy, I`ve been in prisons in over two dozen countries, including Turkey, where the "Midnight Express" (INAUDIBLE) was. That prison in Turkey is a Ritz-Carlton compared to where he`s going. He may not survive Lurigancho.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is videotape surveillance of him committing so many of these crimes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve got him in and out of the room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he going to walk free from this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way he`s walking. This is too high- profile a case for this jurisdiction to let him go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ain`t no way, no how they`re going to let this guy out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says that they made a mistake after the Natalee Holloway case. They sent him to Holland to study.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was going to be very difficult to prove whether she had initiated by hitting him first.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says he should have gotten psychiatric help. She said after the father died -- now, that was just back in February...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From what we saw, there was absolutely nothing, no -- nothing that would leave DNA under her nails, no scratch marks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said she does not plan to go to Peru to see her son. She said she can`t embrace him. She also says she believes he may have killed Stephany Flores.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And we learn as soon as he`s busted for Stephany Tatiana`s murder, he calls Mommy. To Victoria Macchi, investigative reporter, who`s joining us along with Jean Casarez there in Lima. What can you tell me? He`s now whining about how police tortured him, blah, blah, blah. Eh-eh- eh-eh! But he had a lawyer of his choice, according to you, during the confession that he is now contesting.
MACCHI: Nancy, yesterday, we heard that he and -- through his lawyer, Maximo Altez, had filed a complaint against the homicide department of the Peruvian national police. And in that complaint, he said that he had not been properly represented. Now, what we found out today was that he did not, in fact, have a court-appointed attorney when he gave his confession two weeks ago, but it was an attorney, Luz Romero Chinchay, that he had chosen. She was one of several defense attorneys who went to police headquarters, presented herself as an attorney, and he actually chose her. And she was his attorney up until that Thursday when Maximo Altez, through people that he and the Van Der Sloot family and the Netherlands knew in common, became his attorney.
GRACE: And Jean Casarez, what can you tell me about the cab drivers?
CASAREZ: Well, what we`re learning, the other defendants in this case, they were supposed to appear before the judge, just like Joran Van Der Sloot. They didn`t show up to make their formal statement. They submitted in writing why they couldn`t be there, but now it`s set for July 5th and 6th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is in a high-security area of the prison with just 10 cells.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... right next to an alleged Colombian hitman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... a hitman...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have hit it off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two of them are watching television shows together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They talk. They go to the exercise room together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Van Der Sloot not in the worst of the worst right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot is a confessed killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s psychotic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I took my shirt and put it on her face, pressing hard until I killed Stephany."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no emotional connection.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And now his own mother seems to be turning on him.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She says her son was supposed to be committed to a psych hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: During an interview with ABC`s "Good Morning America," though, she tried to shed more light on her son. And we`re quoting here, this is what she said, "I hope that he gets a chance to talk with the parents of Stephany Flores and that he can tell them what happened."
She went on to say, "I apologize for them, that he is my son."
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": He is in solitary confinement. This is for his protection. Not every inmate as you see has that liberty to have such solitary confinement. But they are concerned for his security.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He is not a monster. He can be very gentle but it could be that he has bipolar personality.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Completely narcissistic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I couldn`t stay anymore in the scene. There was too much blood in the room."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is all about him.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: "I hope he gets the help." She goes on to say, "I think a part of me still wants to believe that it`s all a very bad movie, but I thought immediately of the parents of the girl."
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Quote, "I did not want to do it. The girl intruded into my private life."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wants to blame Stephany, that it was her fault, just like he did that with Natalee.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: For those of you just joining us, as we literally go to air tonight we discover that DNA absolutely has been discovered under Stephany Tatiana`s fingernails indicating a ferocious struggle on her part to save her life.
We also learned from secret police files that a massive cleanup was conducted in that room by Van Der Sloot. And these photos emerged. New photos detailing the blood on the dead girl`s shoes, the bruises on her hands, the bruises on her feet. Belying part of the suffering she endured before her death.
We are live in Peru with Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," and investigative reporter Victoria Macchi.
Out to the lines. Linda in California. Hi, Linda.
LINDA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what is your question?
LINDA: I`ve had a thought of -- you know, I`ve always wondered why did she follow him to his room. Her body language. She didn`t want to be there. If she was going to play online poker why wouldn`t she stay and play live poker in the casino?
I wonder, did Joran con her out poker chips? You know, like, I`m going to win this next hand and don`t worry I`ve got money in my room, I can pay you back. Don`t worry.
I`m thinking he set her up. I`m thinking he watched her for days. And I`m thinking that -- like even when she walked into the casino that night when he was sitting at the poker table, it almost looked like she was looking for him. Like he owed her money. That`s what`s in my head. And - -
GRACE: OK, let`s go to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. They had met several days before, right?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. They actually met about May 27th. They did know each other. They played poker together a few times. And, you know, we don`t know.
This is a theory, however, that he did target her for her casino winnings. She won $10,000 just not long before that. So that is a theory police are working on right now.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers."
Dr. Bethany, can you respond to Linda`s observation about her demeanor? Not only is she`s following him into the hotel room, but there in the casino, as well. I know you studied it all.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think Linda brings two excellent points. One is about her head being down. And what I think about that -- I think he was working her over a period of a couple of days, manipulating her.
And by the time that she actually followed her -- him to his hotel room she may have felt ashamed. And that`s why her head was down.
I also think that he was in a very predatory mode and he saw all that money passing hands and he had it in for her and at some point in that room she refused to turn over the money and he went into a rage.
But this wasn`t just any ordinary rage. He wanted to beat and beat and beat her. This was a prolonged savage attack because she refused to hand something over. And he really felt that she had it coming to her. And that`s why the whole attack is face-to-face.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Linda, Virginia. Hi, Linda.
LINDA, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
LINDA: Well, my question is, does Peru have the same access to DNA technology as we use in the U.S. for making positive conclusions in cases like this?
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, what can you tell us, Jean?
CASAREZ: The National Peruvian Police have an extensive forensic laboratory. They have an entire building dedicated to criminal investigation that includes the forensics of every nature, including computers, forensic toxicology and all of it. It`s very advanced here.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, felony prosecutor, Eleanor Odom, Michael Griffith, international law attorney, joining us out of New York. Famed defense attorney out of San Francisco, Daniel Horowitz, and defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Peter Odom.
I want to go to you, Eleanor. What is this struggle, this intense struggle? How does it chain the complexion of the case?
ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: You know, Nancy, the first thing I thought about was how personal was this. When you`re strangling somebody, there you are, face-to-face.
This is a personal attack. It`s not like a gun where you shoot somebody and do it from a distance. But it`s just sort of shows a little bit about Van Der Sloot`s mindset.
GRACE: And Jean Casarez, isn`t it true that we have now learned from the autopsy report that there are definitely were amphetamines in her system?
CASAREZ: Yes. There definitely were. And remember, this is a first- degree murder case. The aggravators are ferociously with great cruelty. The base felony is robbery.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Daniel Horowitz. Was she drugged before she was murdered? We know GHB, the empty wrappers were found in her car. He had her car when he left the hotel room. Now we know amphetamines were found in her system.
And how would that change the complexion of the case?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I just don`t believe that if you plan to kill something you`re going to give them methamphetamine.
GRACE: I didn`t say meth. I didn`t say meth.
HOROWITZ: Or any amphetamine.
GRACE: I said am amphetamine.
HOROWITZ: Amphetamines, to be --
GRACE: I mean, for all I know, that you could be Vytorin.
HOROWITZ: Right. Well, not Vytorin, but I understand what you`re saying. But I think that would make her --
GRACE: To keep her awake.
HOROWITZ: And fight back better. I mean if you`re going to go into combat you want to drink coffee or take some amphetamines. So no, I don`t think he drugged her. But certainly there was a ferocious struggle that lasted a very long time. Because you don`t generally bruise until -- when your heart stops beating. So that could have gone on for minutes.
GRACE: You`re right. That is a great observation, Daniel Horowitz. You certainly tried a couple of homicide cases, one or two, I would say.
When the heart stops pumping the blood through the body you don`t really have the same capacity to bruise. So what he is saying that those bruises were before death, not at the time of death. They didn`t appear post mortem or they were not caused post mortem.
To you, Michael Griffith. What about the cleanup? The cleanup. We now know thanks to Victoria Macchi`s reporting, an intense cleanup, a thorough cleanup. He just didn`t find a way to get rid of the sheets he was using to clean up with.
MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, how are you going to hide sheets in a hotel room. You know, Nancy, I have a slant on it. You know when I was down in Flores I had three Pisco sours where I -- I couldn`t remember where I was in the morning.
He didn`t have 10 Pisco sours. I believe what happens was he got the e-mail, I think, from probably the Netherlands because over there it was 11:00 in the morning because nobody from Aruba is e-mailing at 5:30 in the morning.
And I think what really happens here was, since her pants were off -- we all forget this -- her pants were off, you know, she was gay. And I believe it was that time of the month for her. I believe that this was a sex thing.
GRACE: But there`s no sign of sex assault.
GRIFFITH: No. But I believe he attempted to.
GRACE: OK.
GRIFFITH: And that`s why the struggle took place.
GRACE: OK. That is a valid theory. But Peter Odom, you know, Griffith made an astute observation. How do you get rid of the sheets. But what I`m saying is the cleanup, what does it show?
To me it shows he was in his right mind. He wasn`t crazy. He was trying to clean up the room to hide the evidence.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it shows that he was in his right mind after he killed her. He is going to try and show that this is manslaughter by trying to demonstrate that this was an impulsive act. That`s why eventually he`s not going to ask that that confession be thrown out or suppressed.
That confession is Joran Van Der Sloot`s best friend. He`s going to embrace it, he`s going to ask that it be played in court to try and get this reduced from --
GRACE: OK, you know what?
P. ODOM: -- first-degree murder to manslaughter.
GRACE: Eleanor, there`s no way a cleanup is going to help you in court.
E. ODOM: No way at all, Nancy. It shows you he knew exactly what he was doing.
GRACE: As we go to break, everybody, we are taking your calls live. Bombshell evidence tonight. DNA under Stephany`s fingernails showing a ferocious struggle to save her own life with the hulking Dutchman.
As we go to break, I want to wish a very happy birthday to veteran New York lawyer, defense attorney Jason Oshins. What a great lawyer, what a great friend and friend of the show. A beautiful wife from the inside and out and two beautiful children. Stick around for 30 more years.
And I want to say a very special congratulations to this beautiful couple. Wedding bells will be ringing when they marry in Georgia. Brittany and Stephen.
And tonight`s Facebook crime fighters, California friend, mother and former census worker, Debbie. Tennessee friend, mother of four, Karie. Illinois friend, Department of Corrections worker, Vicki.
Facebook crime fighters, thank you.
Submit your photos at CNN.com/Nancygrace and click on Facebook.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Joran Van Der Sloot files a complaint against Peruvian police.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He filed a complaint.
CASAREZ: Stalling technique.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Alleging that the Peruvian National Police did not respect Joran`s rights.
CASAREZ: Habeas corpus. We are talking about that his rights have been violated.
GRIFFITH: I don`t understand what his strategy is.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That they did not have a warrant to arrest him.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He claims he was arrested without a warrant.
GRACE: Framed. Framed by Peruvian police.
CASAREZ: The illegality of the detention.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Will Van Der Sloot stay in jail?
GRACE: He confesses to Stephany`s murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Led to him being, quote, "tricked," into confessing to the murder of Stephany Flores."
GRACE: Forces into a murder confession.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And denied his right to due process.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They denied him the right to an attorney. A proper representation.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He also says he was not pd with an official translator which confused him.
GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot totally disses the Peruvian judge by not speaking in court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn`t seem to have a plan. All he`s doing is annoying the judges.
CASAREZ: Could Joran Van Der Sloot be set free?
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, we learned a lot about the crime scene. You are seeing a photo -- if you could, Dana, can I take these crime scene photos in full? These are the dead girl`s feet. The significance is they are covered in not only bruises, but blood.
Here are her tennis shoes. She was not wearing them at the time of the murder. This blood has drenched the tennis shoes.
That was one of the bloodiest crime scenes many homicide investigators have ever seen. This is Stephany Tatiana`s right hand. There you see bruising appearing all over her hand, between her fingers.
And tonight we learned DNA under Stephany Tatiana`s nails indicating a life-and-death, a mortal struggle. More crime scene photos as we know them.
Straight to Victoria Macchi, investigative reporter. These photos are obtained straight from police files, are they not?
VICTORIA MACCHI, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, ON LOCATION AT JUSTICE PALACE IN LIMA, PERU: Yes, Nancy, we got those photos earlier this week. And they show exactly what -- what we`ve been talking about. The bruising, the blood, all the trauma that was done to Stephany.
GRACE: I`m very interested, Victoria, in the cleanup that police sources are alluding to. Are you saying that cleaned up or tried to clean up totally with the bed sheets?
MACCHI: And the police -- the head of the homicide -- he chuckled a bit when he told me this because he -- apparently Joran put in the effort to clean up the scene but then he left all of the evidence right there.
The very things that he had cleaned up with, he left in the room. The shirt that he asphyxiated her with, the bed sheets, bed spreads, all was still there.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, when we say he asphyxiated her, and there is the shirt, is the theory that he wrapped it around her neck and ligature style to strangle her or did he smother her with it?
CASAREZ: He smothered her with it. That was his confession. And Nancy, we got those photos shortly before 6:00 tonight. Panamericana, CNN affiliate, gave them to us. So this is truly for HLN and "In Session." We got those photos and they are so gruesome and they show something, Nancy, the basis of this crime was a robbery.
But yet, you see on her hands, you see her ring and you see her watch. And those were not taken. So the basis of the robbery was greater than that jewelry. It was, according to police, the money and her car.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, go through again what we learned in these photos.
CASAREZ: We learned in the photos that it is very different from the confession of Joran Van Der Sloot. He specifically says there is no struggle. He says that he hits her with his elbow in her nose.
That her head hits on the wall. That he then takes her and strangles her with her neck. He throws her on the floor. She`s still breathing so he takes his shirt and he asphyxiates her and he believes that`s how she died.
If you look at those photos and you look at the bruises, there are great inconsistencies and that could hurt him because that confession is not (speaking in foreign language), which is a sincere confession under Peruvian law.
GRACE: How will it affect the trial, Eleanor, quickly?
E. ODOM: Well, I don`t think it`ll affect it all, Nancy, because the prosecution should go straight ahead. They`ve got great evidence. Throw out the confession. They still have enough to convict him.
GRACE: Well, see, I think it affects it greatly, Michael Griffith, and I rarely disagree with Eleanor. But the fact that he gave his confession about what happened, and the crime scene photos -- the photos of her body, her hands, her feet, completely belie what he is saying.
GRIFFITH: Well, for a simple reason, Nancy. This is a felony murder. This is not a manslaughter. He stole her money, he took the car, he beat her up brutally. And I don`t know what he was trying to clean up. Her eye was hanging out and she has all this blood over her. What can he possibly have cleaned up?
GRACE: What about it, Horowitz?
HOROWITZ: And that`s on the anniversary of the Holloway death. And that`s the real motive. The robbery is an afterthought. And I think there`s a lot of confusing motives that may hurt this case.
And Nancy, if that DNA comes back to him but there`s no damage to his body where she got it from, people are going to suspect some wrongdoing by the Peruvians planting of DNA.
GRACE: Oh, lord. Here you go.
HOROWITZ: So he`s go to watch that DNA. It could cut the wrong way. Where`s the injury to him, Nancy?
GRACE: You know, nobody seems to think that but you, Daniel Horowitz? What about you, Odom?
P. ODOM: I agree with Daniel on this, and you know, the tactics by the police are going to be subject to great question here, Nancy. They haven`t been scrutinized at all yet. But we`re making some claims here that are going to be scrutinized in the future.
So, Daniel, hats off to you for bringing it up.
GRACE: Everybody, we`re taking your calls live. We are live in Peru. We also learned tonight the first thing he does when he gets busted on Stephany`s murder is called mommy. Anita Van Der Sloot now speaking to the press.
As we go to break, I want say get well to Carolina friend Kathy Evans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Anita Van Der Sloot --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Anita Van Der Sloot.
CASAREZ: What has the mother of Joran Van Der Sloot said publicly?
ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF JORAN: This is a terrible time.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She says that her son is not a monster.
A. VAN DER SLOOT: He understood the police. He helped the police as much as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She believes in karma, bad things happen that you have to pay.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joran Van Der Sloot.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He wants control over the opposite sex.
GRACE: After beating her to a pulp --
CASAREZ: He reflects certain domination over the opposite sex.
GRACE: Breaking her neck.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we need a psychologist to know that this was male chauvinist pig?
CHRIS CUOMO, ABC NEWS: How do you think you`ve been portrayed in all this?
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, SUSPECT IN THE DISAPPEARANCE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE: I think I`ve been portrayed unfairly. I`ve been portrayed as a murderer and a rapist and everything that I`m not.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. Terry in Maryland. Hi, Terry.
TERRY, CALLER FROM MARYLAND: Hello, Nancy. If I could just take a couple seconds before I ask my question. I wanted to tell you that I thank God every night for blessing us with your presence on this earth.
All of the good and righteous stuff you do in the name of justice is incredible. You are wonderful and beautiful inside and out. I thank you for that. I thank God for that. I also thank him for blessing you with those two beautiful, precious angels.
GRACE: You know? I`ve said it many times, Terry. I thank God heard my little prayer and answered it 10,000 times over. 10,000 times. And when I deal with cases like this, I imagine what these parents go through, raising a child their whole lives, sinking all their love into them. Then to have somebody like Van Der Sloot come along and snuff her life out.
TERRY: You are so right.
GRACE: Thank you.
TERRY: You are so right. But the --
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
TERRY: My question is, in light of the fact that he was found with money from several countries in his pockets, I just cannot believe that there have been two murders that he has committed.
GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent theory.
Very quickly, Jean Casarez, it`s possible he`s linked to other people.
CASAREZ: Very interesting theory. Twelve different nations` currency found on him. Now DNA is on record for him also because of this case.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant David Ruhren, 27, Virginia, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Iraq Freedom medal. Lost his life just before coming home. Favorite color red. Leaves behind mother Sonya, grandparents David, Chris, Ana, girlfriend Sara.
David Ruhren, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially you. And a special good night from Georgia friend, Nancy.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
