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Joy Behar Page
Mel Gibson in Trouble Again; Chris Brown`s Breakdown; Gary Coleman`s Love Texts
Aired June 28, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Tonight, singer Chris Brown bursts into tears while paying tribute to Michael Jackson. I haven`t seen a man cry like that since -- well, last night`s Glenn Beck show.
Then Shannon Price, Gary Coleman`s ex-wife, insists that Gary loved her until the day he died. And Gary`s agent insists that day came too soon because of Shannon`s indifference.
And Republicans are ready to fight the appointment of Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court. Among other things, they don`t like her stand on gun control, and I hear they`re loaded for bear.
That and more right now.
Well, Mel Gibson is in hot water again and this time for making more than drunken slurs. His ex-girlfriend and baby mama got a restraining order against him for allegedly knocking out her teeth during a domestic dispute in January. Gibson`s lawyer says it`s nonsense, she just wants money, he says.
Either way, can Mel Gibson`s movie career withstand another blow? Here with the latest in the case is Mike assignment manager for TMZ. Mike, what`s the latest?
MIKE WALTERS, ASSIGNMENT MANAGER, TMZ: Well, basically, I mean, this is a really nasty custody battle. They actually have a young daughter, him and his girlfriend. And basically the picture that`s painted here allegedly she says Mel punched her in the face, knocked out a tooth, chipped another tooth during this big fight that they had recently.
Now, that was back in January. So it`s kind of weird that she would wait this long to file a restraining order against Mel and allege all this stuff. But she claims she has photos, she has the dental records, after she went to the dentist when her teeth got knocked out and that Mel Gibson is a danger to their daughter and doesn`t want him alone with her. That`s why it`s come up recently in the last few days.
WALTERS: And a concussion. Did you mention concussion also? I think you did. Yes, basically, when she got punched, she says that she went to the doctor for the teeth and that because she had a headache and all that, that it was also a possible concussion. So, interesting.
BEHAR: She also has apparently recordings of arguments she secretly taped with him. What can you tell us about those?
WALTERS: Yes, apparently after this first thing happened in January, she says that Mel said, I`m going to get help, anger management type, then it didn`t. It got worse. It got extremely violent. So she started videotaping and audio taping their arguments. Apparently she has this stuff.
The judge in the restraining order case and the custody has told her you cannot talk about those recordings. They`ve taken them under seal. So even if they do exist, which she claims they do, she can`t talk about them or let the media hear or see anything that`s going on.
But if you can imagine, with the public, Mel Gibson has a hard time saying I didn`t do it. She`s lying, it is all about money. Because people in the public just don`t believe him because of his past.
BEHAR: Right. That`s true.
Now, his lawyers say that Oksana is making all this up because she regrets signing a 50-50 custody agreement with him back in, when, I guess when the baby was born, the kid is about eight months old now, I think. What do you know about the custody agreement?
WALTERS: Well, basically she signed this agreement, you know, where he basically gets 50-50 custody. I don`t know exactly what prompted the latest argument, but it was over Father`s Day. And he wanted to see his daughter and she didn`t let him.
So all of a sudden here comes all these allegations. He`s saying, look, I should be able to see my daughter. It is my daughter also. She`s saying, no. That`s when they went to court last Monday over the custody.
Now, the interesting thing, like I said, is that she brings up all this violence from however many months ago January was and hasn`t said anything or called the cops. I mean, if you get punched in the face, Joy, and your teeth get knocked out by your boyfriend or husband, you call the cops. You call somebody.
BEHAR: Right.
WALTERS: And she didn`t say anything until now.
BEHAR: She didn`t do that.
WALTERS: But then again, like I said, though, it`s Mel Gibson. So everyone that hears the story goes, ok, I`ve heard this story before. He has a temper.
BEHAR: Exactly.
(CROSS TALKING)
His reputation precedes him. Thanks very much, Mike. Ok.
With me now to discuss the fallout of these allegations are Bonnie Fuller, president and editor in chief of hollywoodlife.com; Debra Opri, family law attorney and Egypt Sherrod, television and radio host on 107.5 WBLS.
Ok. Bonnie, we have no way of knowing who`s telling the truth at the moment, but you know, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, is it plausible that Mel Gibson, who has anger management issues might have done this?
BONNIE FULLER, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: It`s certainly plausible, especially with his history of alcohol abuse. I think people are going to think, he fell off the wagon again and he got carried away. And you know, when people have alcohol, they do things like anti-Semitic slurs and do other things.
BEHAR: Not everybody who is an alcoholic has anti-Semitic slurs. It has to be in there someplace.
FULLER: That`s right. But he used that as his excuse. And so, I think, that`s what makes it plausible to people.
BEHAR: Right, that`s true. Debra, Oksana claims she has recordings of arguments that she had with Mel Gibson that she taped. Could those be damaging if she wants to sue him or --
DEBRA OPRI, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, I`m the attorney on the panel. So what I`m going to tell you is they don`t exist until they get into evidence and they`re proof. They`ll never going to see the light of day in the media. As long as this paternity action is going strong, they`re going to be sealed records. If she files a palimony action then they`ll see the light of day.
But it`s what she can prove and here`s the telling point. She gets a restraining order on day one. On day two, Mr. Gibson`s attorney goes in and he has a restraining order to remove the child, still in place with her, but it`s going to fade away.
That`s not the crux of this case right now. The crux of the case right now is she`s going to be painted in the media as somebody who wants money.
BEHAR: Right.
OPRI: And Mel is not going to play that game.
BEHAR: Which brings me to Egypt; I mean she`s not getting -- she claims she gets no child support from this guy.
EGYPT SHERROD, TV & RADIO HOST: Well, that`s what I was going to ask. If you have a 50-50 custody agreement, who`s owed the child support here. You take of the child 50 percent of the time; I take care of the child 50 percent of the time.
Here`s what I`m saying. Maybe it`s about money, maybe it`s not. You hate to say that when a woman is claiming she`s been assaulted that anything is about money because there`s always the possibility that she really has. It`s a dangerous territory.
OPRI: On the other hand --
SHERROD: However, he can never -- this is going to go away very quickly. I think you all know that. This is going to do damage --
OPRI: There is no other hand.
FULLER: Why did she not call the police when the violence occurred?
BEHAR: Yes, why didn`t she, do you think?
FULLER: That is what`s questionable.
SHERROD: Because she was so busy taping it.
OPRI: Her actions and motivations are going to be geared towards making money. If she had called the police, there would have been a report. But right now she`s coming across in the media as someone who wants to embarrass him. And he can`t be embarrassed because he`s got a custody agreement of I`m going to be a good father and I`m done with you, lady.
BEHAR: Well, now, wait a minute, she can embarrass him by saying he doesn`t give me any money for this child.
OPRI: He does give her money for child support. She is not getting any money for any support for her. She`s not entitled to it under the law.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: That`s not what I read.
OPRI: No, no, no.
FULLER: That`s what she was saying. She had said Mel had not given me one penny to support this child.
BEHAR: That`s right.
OPRI: So she is out to embarrass him in the court of public opinion.
BEHAR: She said she`s borrowing money from friends.
FULLER: Yes.
BEHAR: And she`s living off her credit cards.
OPRI: We are here today stretching this. He is taking care of the child, but if she wants to go get a massage, she wants to go to Hawaii with nannies and have this paid for, he`s not responsible for that.
SHERROD: I agree.
OPRI: He`s responsible for the child. And I could probably bet you a thousand dollars right now, he`s paying what he is contractually obligated to pay for the child`s support. He is just maybe through paying her living expenses.
BEHAR: Why is she saying that she`s not being given one penny to support the child if that`s the case?
OPRI: Why did she say she was physically assaulted and there`s violence and she`s in this relationship? She has to prove it. And so far it`s all talk. That`s it.
SHERROD: Here`s the tough thing. What if he really didn`t do any of this? And of course, people going to assume he did because of his history.
OPRI: Let`s not go that far.
SHERROD: But let`s go that far. Let`s go that far. Because you think about Naomi Campbell who also had an anger management problem, then everyone and their mother and their maids came out of the woodwork claiming she threw the cell phone or tried to attack them after she did it.
(CROSS TALKING)
FULLER: And it is true, the man did have a 30-year marriage with a wife who never claimed that he was physically abusive to her.
SHERROD: 20 years --
BEHAR: Didn`t they have like a hundred kids, though.
FULLER: They did.
SHERROD: And they`re Christians.
OPRI: It is the perception in the media that are played out. In the courtroom, I don`t think she has legs to stand on at this point in time.
BEHAR: All right. Let`s talk about his career which you know, he had a movie called the "Edge of Darkness which did ok at the box office, you know. But he seemed to be sort of coming back in his career. Is this going to set him back now?
FULLER: Absolutely, it`s going to set him back because one of the strengths that Mel Gibson had in the past was he was an extremely likeable actor. As a performer, he was very, very charismatic. He did have a reputation. He had a reputation as a good family man.
BEHAR: Yes.
FULLER: I mean there were some rumors about infidelity, but nothing more than that. So people liked him.
Now, the moment that the incident occurred where he was drunk and he made the slurs, that instantly changed his reputation. And so this is going to be like another slap at his reputation again. People don`t like to think about an actor being domestically violent.
BEHAR: Definitely not.
OPRI: I agree.
SHERROD: Can we just make him a poster boy. This is what happens when you leave your wife for a younger woman.
BEHAR: They were together for many, many years. And she doesn`t seem like -- the wife seems like go, go ahead, go.
He`s doing a movie with Jodie Foster. It`s called "The Beaver". No comment.
Even if -- I mean, he`s friends with Jodie Foster. I found that odd that they would be friends.
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: But even if the audiences forgive him, Bonnie, he still is a liability. He`s a problem. That attack on that -- the police officer that time, saying -- calling her these misogynistic names and these anti-Semitic rants --
FULLER: And his "The Passion Christ"
(CROSS TALKING)
FULLER: "The Passion of Christ" was also very controversial movie.
BEHAR: Right.
FULLER: For those who loved it, there were plenty who didn`t.
OPRI: He needs to get quiet in his personal life and go back to work. He doesn`t need to be parading these young women who are pregnant with a divorce. It`s too messy, too ugly, he needs the disappearance of the private live and keep everything out of the press.
BEHAR: He also has a lot of money. He doesn`t really need to work anymore. He can just stay home and drink from now on.
FULLER: Yes and he`s got $900 million. He`s got $900 million.
BEHAR: Yes.
FULLER: That means he`s got enough to make her quiet. Whatever happens --
BEHAR: Ok, stay right there.
SHERROD: All right.
BEHAR: I want your take on Chris Brown`s Michael Jackson tribute when we comeback. That was interesting too.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the latest developments in the Joran Van Der Sloot murder case.
And Gary Coleman`s ex-wife reveals new texts showing the actor apparently still loved her even after he sought a restraining order.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Singer Chris Brown broke down crying during his performance at the BET Awards tribute to Michael Jackson. Was he genuinely moved or was it a disingenuous career move? Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHRIS BROWN PERFORMING AT THE BET AWARDS` TRIBUTE TO MICHAEL JACKSON)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. Ok now let`s see. Just last year you know he had trouble. So what do you think Debra was that for real?
OPRI: He`s still on probation. No. At that moment in time when he broke down, listen to the words. I`m looking at the man in the mirror - -
BEHAR: Yes.
OPRI: I want to change my ways.
BEHAR: I think he`s not --
OPRI: He`s not going to, is he?
BEHAR: Yes, at least he`s not singing, "Beat It". So I mean, what do you think? Do you think --
FULLER: I disagree.
SHERROD: Oh it`s a career move.
FULLER: No, well, I think it`s a career move. But I think it was completely real.
SHERROD: But just don`t break down like that. Come on.
FULLER: No, we had people backstage there. They saw it. He was sobbing backstage as well as on stage. I think the guy, he`s young. He`s only 20 years old. He`s been under a lot of stress. He did a terrible, terrible thing. But I think people deserve a second chance. And I don`t think that everything is staged.
SHERROD: My phones would not stop ringing on the radio about this today. So I took a poll; 85 percent of New York City believes he was being genuine about his emotion. And I think what we saw was a culmination of his emotions. I mean, rejected from his fans; the embarrassment of the assault case. Being shut out of the industry, not to mention he was shut out of all of last year`s awards shows and tributes to Michael Jackson.
BEHAR: So he`s crying for himself.
SHERROD: He was probably --
BEHAR: That`s what it sounds like.
SHERROD: He was crying for himself but he was crying nonetheless and it was genuine.
FULLER: I agree it was genuine. And you know, I mean, so what if he was crying for himself? I mean, it`s a -- people deserve -- this is America. We do not deserve to be tarred and feathered forever unless we murder --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: Well, he was -- he`s in the middle of a domestic abuse case --
OPRI: That`s right.
BEHAR: -- with former girlfriend Rihanna. This picture from TMZ is a police photo of Rihanna after the fight. Ok, take a look, that`s what he did to her allegedly, right?
(CROSS TALKING)
OPRI: It disgusts me. He`s on probation and if he is milking the Michael Jackson tribute. I represented the Jackson family. I was involved with the Michael Jackson case and media hoopla then. I just think Michael Jackson`s night was special, the tribute was special and it became about Chris Brown and his breakdown.
And if you`re a performer, you`ve got to maintain some control. And to that degree, I didn`t buy it.
SHERROD: It was very human and endearing -- you are a lawyer, right? A very human and endearing moment, bottom line at the end of the day, he was a young man who made a huge mistake and he paid for it, he paid his debt to the society. Can we move on and give the boy a break.
FULLER: He paid for it but so did she.
BEHAR: I don`t want -- I don`t want to come down too hard on the guy but I don`t know that many people who are 19 years old who actually beat up their girlfriends. I think that that is not something that happens every day.
SHERROD: Yes but when you were 19, you weren`t living in the public eye and made a huge mistake that everybody dragged on for years. No. I -- I by no means condone what he did.
BEHAR: But there are plenty of people who in the public eye who don`t do that.
OPRI: Let`s ask Rihanna, I would like to ask her did you believe that performance last night?
BEHAR: That was a good question. Get her on the phone.
FULLER: Well, but you know what, I don`t think you actually -- actually, I don`t think you can ask Rihanna. Because I think she had, like many victims, has mixed feelings about it. And she`s talked about -- she`s talked about it how they were best friends.
However, let`s just get back to the fact that it was Michael Jackson`s night. Michael Jackson was his mentor. Before this he was known for his performances of Michael Jackson`s music. So I don`t think you can --
SHERROD: Did he breakdown before --
FULLER: -- accuse him of taking the night away from him.
SHERROD: He said Michael Jackson was his idol. He was crushed, heartbroken last year -- that he didn`t have an opportunity to pay tribute to Michael.
(CROSS TALKING)
OPRI: But he didn`t breakdown like that before ever.
BEHAR: I know.
SHERROD: No, but what we`re talking about here. This is his first opportunity to do a public appearance.
BEHAR: You know, though, Egypt, I just called you Israel. But they`re friends now. But listen, there`s something about the fact that before the last segment we`re talking about a man beating up a woman allegedly.
Now we`re talking about again, another man hitting a girl.
FULLER: Right.
SHERROD: Hello.
BEHAR: There`s something wrong. And we`re worried about their careers. You know what?
Ok, in the movie "Wall Street" Michael Douglas said greed is good. Apparently his ex-wife Diandra took those words to heart. Because she`s suing him for half the proceeds of the upcoming sequel "Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps".
Ok. Debra?
OPRI: I want to ask you, what does this mean?
BEHAR: It means "Who cares?"
OPRI: Oh ok, go ahead.
BEHAR: That`s Italian. Yes, as my mother used to go -- whatever that meant. I don`t know.
All right, Diandra Douglas. Now, she`s claiming that she`s entitled to 50 percent of Michael`s earnings from the upcoming "Wall Street" movie as part of her divorce settlement because in the settlement that she did years ago, it said she would get all the money for a -- not a sequel, what`s the other word?
OPRI: Spin-off.
BEHAR: For a spin-off.
OPRI: Magic words.
BEHAR: Now, what`s the difference between a sequel and a spin-off? Because the movie is a sequel?
OPRI: A sequel is what happens here now from this story and Charlie Sheen and Michael Douglas --
BEHAR: Right.
OPRI: -- and the wife and the character and all of that. They`re taking the Gordon Gecko character --
BEHAR: Yes.
OPRI: -- and they`re spinning it off into another story line.
BEHAR: Ok, so that means she gets the money, no?
OPRI: Her agreement from people, a person I understand who was intricately involved in representing Diandra basically said, the deal at the 2000 divorce was any projects currently pending, you`re entitled to your profit and any spin-offs.
So those are the two magic provisions. It means -- and he should settle with her and I`ll cut to the chase.
BEHAR: Yes, thank you.
OPRI: It means that Gordon Gecko, like a franchise, think Harrison Ford --
BEHAR: Yes.
OPRI: -- with the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" movies --
BEHAR: Right.
OPRI: -- any character that he plays that gets spun off into anything, she`s entitled to it because she had a hell of a good attorney.
BEHAR: So there you go. There you go.
She also already got $45 million, by the way.
OPRI: God bless her.
FULLER: The argument is still over spin-offs and sequels.
BEHAR: Ok. Maybe that is the --
(CROSS TALKING)
BEHAR: You guys were just great. Thank you very much for doing this.
Next, Gary Coleman`s ex says she has text messages that prove the late star was still in love with her. That`s right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Gary Coleman`s ex-wife Shannon Price is telling RadarOnline that she saved text messages from Coleman that prove his devotion to her. You know, nothing says I love you like a restraining order. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHANNON PRICE, GARY COLEMAN`S EX-WIFE: "I love you and you gave my life purpose and meaning. You always have. Without you, I want my heart to stop beating right now because I`ll miss you terribly and I really love looking forward to seeing you and telling you I love you."
These text messages is how we felt about each other regardless, you know, of the divorce and regardless of the supposed restraining order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Also, Coleman`s longtime agent has said the star "shouldn`t have died", quote, unquote. With me to discuss this is Ryan Smith, host of "In Session" on TruTV. Do we know for a fact, Ryan, that Coleman actually sent these messages?
RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION": Well, we don`t know for a fact. She`s reading them off her cell phone. She`s kind of saying they exist. That would have to be verified.
But the thing is when did he send these text messages? Did they come recently? Did they come five years ago? Who knows? And so who knows how they really felt about each other?
BEHAR: Right. It could have been before the honeymoon was over.
SMITH: Right.
BEHAR: Now, last time, I checked, the ex-wife was getting a lot of bad PR over allegedly selling the death bed photos. Is she trying to redo her image and will it work?
SMITH: Joy, absolutely she`s trying to redo her image because she looks like one of the worst people in America right now especially because of that 911 call where she didn`t really she reach out or seemed like she didn`t because she was kind of grossed out by what was happening. Everybody found that -- a lot of people found that to be abysmal.
Now, I think, what she`s trying to do is she`s trying to show that they had a real connection together and that she loved him tremendously. Perhaps she did. But her actions around that 911 call are very difficult to overcome.
BEHAR: There`s some motivation here for money that you can`t really put your finger on yet because now that he`s gone, his estate is going to be worth some money. So I don`t trust a lot of this.
Now Coleman`s former agent is now lashing out at her saying she shouldn`t have pulled the plug on his life support. Watch what he tells RadarOnline.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MALCOLM, GARY COLEMAN`S FORMER AGENT: The problem is they were divorced in 2008 in the state of Utah. You cannot have a person who is divorced be the person who decides whether you live or die. And I think the hospital is liable and I think Shannon is liable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s pretty strong statement. You know, can she be charged with anything here and the hospital, too?
SMITH: I think we`re a long ways away from her being charged for anything. I`ll tell you what it is. Basically in Utah, there`s a special health directive. And it`s essentially an advanced directive. So that stays in place.
But when someone gets divorced, the agent`s got a good point, usually that then goes away and they don`t have the right to make that decision. So Joy, what I`m really interested in is what did she give the hospital when she showed up to make that decision? Because if she didn`t provide what the hospital should have had, if there wasn`t proof of a marriage certificate, maybe that`s something they require, if there was some misdoing here on the hospital`s part, they will absolutely be looking at a civil suit.
In terms of her criminal liability, officers, police would have to look into this, determine that, hey, maybe there was a homicide here and then decide whether or not it could be something as low as manslaughter, something higher than that or maybe there was some kind of fraud going on here.
But the problem is right now I don`t think there`s much of an investigation. So it`s hard to see her being charged for anything. I think the hospital though might have to answer some real questions.
BEHAR: I think so, too.
You notice that very few people have not spoken in favor of Shannon in this situation? I haven`t heard any good stuff for her. What does that tell you?
SMITH: That tells me a lot. She doesn`t have a whole lot of friends especially in the entertainment industry. I would expect her to have a press rep, at least lawyer coming out and saying look, there have been no charges, nothing has been wrong here. She called 911, she tried to save him, she had the right to make the directive.
BEHAR: Ok Ryan. Sit tight.
Up next, bad news for Joran Van Der Sloot; I`ll have the details when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: A judge has denied Joran Van Der Sloot`s request to have his confession thrown out on the grounds that it was coerced by the police. Here now with the latest from Peru is Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV. Jean, the judge ruled that Van Der Sloot will stay in prison. So what happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: Well, the defense say they are not stopping there. What he told us today was that he is going to appeal this to every Court he can inside Peru and even outside of Peru. He says that he will start in the Superior Court, if necessary, then go to the Supreme Court of Peru. And Joy, he says if he doesn`t get a favorable decision from them, he`s going to go to an American independent counsel in Costa Rica for independent rights and violation of due process. So he says he wants to paralyze the process in all of this. This is his intent.
BEHAR: Is that going to work? Sounds crazy.
CASAREZ: Yes. You know, he says there`s been a violation of due process rights. T he counter is that there`s been none at all. That there were active warrants that were in place when he was arrested. That there was a certified Dutch translator, certified, authorized by the Court, and that the attorney by his side who consented to and was someone overseen by the interior ministry. So Joy, I guess anything`s possible.
BEHAR: Anything is possible.
CASAREZ: But there are two distinct and different sides to this case.
BEHAR: OK now prison officials have told you --
CASAREZ: Right, with Joran Van Der Sloot anything`s possible.
BEHAR: Yes, I understand that prison officials have told you what Van Der Sloot can expect in the coming weeks. What did you learn about that?
CASAREZ: Well, he`s going to be in his cell. But he has a lot of freedoms. You know we learned that the alleged Colombian hit man that is his neighbor, that he actually never gave a formal statement to the judge. That is so routine here in Peru. And so there`s a lot of theorizing that the two of them are really talking legal strategy together. But they do watch television together. They go into the cell lab -
BEHAR: Oh boy.
CASAREZ: And living room and talk amongst themselves. And so he has a lot of freedoms in this solitary confinement.
BEHAR: What a cozy duo that sounds like. A Colombian drug lord and Joran Van Der Sloot. You could not write this up if you had to. Now, DNA was found under the victim`s nails.
CASAREZ: Joy, Joy.
BEHAR: Go ahead.
CASAREZ: Yes. I just wanted to tell you they`re about the same age, too. So I`m sure they really have bonded. You`re right, you`re talking about the DNA found under the nails of Stephany Flores. There was confirmation that there was DNA from another under those nails. Was it male DNA? Was it Joran Van Der Sloot? Those results they haven`t released, but that`s huge if in fact it`s Joran Van Der Sloot`s DNA under those nails.
BEHAR: OK so finally have there been any new talks with the Aruban officials over the Holloway case?
CASAREZ: What was confirmed late last week is that Aruban authorities have made that formal request to come to Peru. Remember, the Peruvian government rules, the judge (inaudible) makes that decision and determines when they come. So far, we haven`t heard that he`s ruled, but we can see that they`re serious in wanting to come.
BEHAR: OK thanks very much, Jean. Now I want to turn to my panel, Ryan Smith, host of "In Session" on TruTV and Robin Sax, a former prosecutor. Ryan, what does this judge`s ruling mean for Van Der Sloot?
RYAN SMITH, HOST "IN SESSION": Well it means he`s not getting out of jail. He was hoping to get something equivalent of bail here. So in the states habeas corpus rights vile or you know his due process rights violated, he gets out on bail. He`s hanging out until the trial. But right now he`s going to spend the rest of his time in that jail until move forward to trial.
BEHAR: Don`t you love this new friendship he has with this Colombian drug lord? Isn`t it perfect?
SMITH: I do. Two peas in a pod.
BEHAR: Really, Robin, what happens with an appeal?
ROBIN SAX, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well during the appeal process, Van Der Sloot can only hope that some sympathetic judge somewhere is going to rule in his favor. Although one of the things that it seems like is they`re trying to cast this Court of public opinion trial as well and have the appearance of applying American laws to what really is a Peruvian criminal justice system.
BEHAR: Yes, I know. What about the DNA found under her nails? How bad is that for Van Der Sloot, Ryan?
SMITH: I think it`s not good. You know, first they got the videotape, now possibly his DNA, the bloody shirt. All these things are lining up against him. And you know what Joy, with this confession trying work the system, paralyze the process, in Peru, if you cooperate, you might be looking at a lesser sentence. His lawyer is playing some really dangerous games with that legal system. Could end up biting him in the you know what.
BEHAR: That`s a good point. We`ve been told how strict they are and difficult the Peruvians are. You`re saying a little something different here. But Robin, there`s a lot of evidence stacking up against this guy. If you were his attorney, what would you advise him? Would you take a plea deal? What would you do?
SAX: Well I certainly agree with what Ryan says, this is a jurisdiction, a country that allows for a leniency. And it appears that that was the route he was going at the very beginning. And now there`s been a change of pace. And it seems the more we uncover, the more evidence that there is and the more chance he`s going to get more time. I would look to shut him up and try to start working towards resolution instead of appeal.
BEHAR: I know there`s the confession, there`s the bloody shirt, there`s the videotape and there`s the DNA under the victim`s nails. It doesn`t look good, does it, Ryan?
SMITH: No it doesn`t look good at all. As a matter of fact if you`re building this case in America, you`re going, wow, look at this case! I mean this is about everything you need to convict somebody. Now, we don`t know everything in this case, but I got to tell you, you have these facts. You`re in the Peruvian system. Those Peruvian jails are some of the worst in the world. I don`t think you want to play around with this. He`s looking at 15 to 35, I think his lawyer needs to start cooperating quickly. But, hey, maybe he`s got another plan we don`t know about.
BEHAR: Well he better start. Because what would be the reason for the prosecution to give him a plea deal? What do they care? Why should they, right?
SMITH: Yes.
BEHAR: So OK, now, Natalee Holloway`s father is searching for her remains in Aruba with a map drawn by Van Der Sloot. Why would he help them and does he have a plan?
SMITH: You know I think he might help them because he thinks it would get him some leniency in Peru, but that`s really not going to happen. Peru will try to pursue its thing first. We heard about this map before. That this map might have led to the wrong house before. This is typical Joran Van Der Sloot we`ve been seeing. It`s over here, over here. And it`s never where he says it is. So I don`t think he really plans on helping them. He`s only going to help him - help them if it helps himself.
BEHAR: He`s a liar. This guy, besides alleged murder, he`s always liar, right, Robin? I mean he might have dumped that body in the ocean and we`ll never find it. The sharks got it. Why would you trust anything he says? Anything?
SAX: You don`t trust anything he says. And don`t forget that that map was done back in February. So this wasn`t even done to have any sort of assistance in this. And it was done for the purposes of a reality show which again shows the mentality of Joran Van Der Sloot as, you know, if it`s going to get me publicity or if it`s going to help me in some other way, but it`s another piece of the puzzle to certainly impeach him and show us the kind of character he is.
BEHAR: You know I don`t really think that the Holloway family is ever going to have any kind of satisfaction from this whole case, do you?
SMITH: You know, it troubles me. I`m starting to doubt that. I know how badly they want to find out what`s happening. They`re looking for any straw they can reach to try to find some satisfaction, but it`s very tough with a guy like Van Der Sloot who constantly plays the system. Look we don`t know what involvement he had in either case, we are still getting to know the evidence. But it`s stacking up against him in Peru.
BEHAR: OK.
SMITH: If he doesn`t have incentive, who knows what he`s done.
BEHAR: Thank you very much, both of you.
Up next, high dram in the High Court for day one of Elena Kagan`s confirmation hearing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The confirmation hearings for Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan began today. Beginning her path to potentially becoming one of the nation`s top judges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELENA KAGAN, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: I will work hard, and I will do my best to consider every case impartially, modestly, with commitment to principle and in accordance with law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here with me now are Dana Milbank, "Washington Post" columnist, and Margaret Carlson, columnist for Bloomberg and Washington editor for "The Week" magazine. Dana, you were there today. Do you think she`s a shoo-in?
DANA MILBANK, WASHINGTON POST: Clearly. There`s no question about it. As she was saying those words, admittedly speaking very slowly, the senators were beginning to kind of doze off. It`s a shoo-in. And the worse she can come up with is she`s very fond of Thurgood Marshall. If that`s the worst they can come up against her, I think that`s a pretty safe bet.
BEHAR: Wow that`s pretty good. Well Margaret, what`s likely to be her biggest problem, if she even has any?
MARGARET CARLSON, BLOOMBERG: Well, they may make something of her Oxford thesis when she was about 4 years old. They don`t like that. They may make something of her when she was working for the Clinton administration saying that she was, you know, too politically attuned. You know in fact, she`s the one Democrat who recommended that the partial -- the ban on partial term abortions be approved with just an exception for the health of the mother. So the pro lifers shouldn`t be that mad at her. She`s a moderate among Democrats. There`s very little to hang on, but you can see how, say, for instance, senator Sessions desperately wants something. Because we have this kabuki theater and it`s required now that you, you know, hair split, get out that tool, whatever it is, and hair split your Supreme Court justice nominees.
BEHAR: Well, but the Liberals had an issue with her for a while, but they seem to have come around. In the beginning they were fearful she wasn`t liberal enough. But they`re OK now. Is she now Liberal enough for the Liberals, Dana?
MILBANK: Well, I think so. Ultimately you knew they`d sort of knuckle under. Because it`s a Democratic White House, because they`re putting pressure on these groups. The truth is nobody really knows and she hasn`t been a judge, as the Republicans are happy to point out, it could turn out that she`s not as strong on abortion rights as some of the Liberals. I hope that she is. But I think given that the whole general contour of what we`ve seen from her people know pretty well where she stands. So except for a few outliers, the Liberals have really come in line.
BEHAR: They`ve come in line. OK now she once criticized the hearings as vapid. You know, duh -
MILBANK: Accurately.
BEHAR: OK, is that -- could that come back to haunt her today or in the next -- you know, soon? Is that going to bother her nomination at all?
CARLSON: She is not going to make them less vapid. This is not what she sees as her job here. Her job is to just get through, answer, you know, articulately but not, you know, with overwhelming force. She`s just going to answer the questions as best she can without giving them something to chew on.
BEHAR: You were saying before that the worst thing that they could say was she likes Thurgood Marshall. But there`s some implication that she would be an activist judge, am I right?
MILBANK: Right.
BEHAR: But there`s so many activist judges on the Court already on the Right, it seems to me.
MILBANK: Exactly. What`s the definition of an activist judge? They`re going after Thurgood Marshall for being an activist judge. Thurgood Marshall was the guy who successfully argued Brown versus Board of Education. If that`s now considered activism, that`s a rather curious definition that we`ll hang people from here. It`s just - it`s become as Margaret started to say there, if the Conservatives don`t go after her, they get a lot of grief from the interest groups on their side. So they just have to go through the motions here. As a number of Conservatives, even like Ted Olsen said, they are not going to get a better nominee from a Democratic president than this. They`re not going to get somebody more to their liking on the Conservative side.
BEHAR: OK, now, Dana, let me ask you this, I mean either one of you, actually, Ginsburg`s husband, he died of cancer this weekend, unfortunately. So do you think that this could prompt Ruth Bader Ginsburg to leave the Court? And you know, that would make three judges in the last 18 months for Obama. That`s an amazing record, if that happens.
MILBANK: Well, it`s a fool`s errand to try to predict when any of these justices is going to retire. More likely than her husband`s death --
BEHAR: Was her own cancer.
MILBANK: Right. Her own health. And what I found in the past is you can never actually predict these things. In any event, that`s another liberal justice. The only time Obama is going to leave an imprint on this Court is when he gets a chance to replace one of the Conservatives. You can bet they`re working out on the treadmill to keep themselves healthy.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK now over the weekend, President Bill Clinton, former President Bill Clinton defended the approval ratings of current President Barack Obama. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: I think he`s done a better job than he`s getting credit for. And I really, I feel very strongly about this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Dana, do you think Clinton is right?
MILBANK: Well, yes, he is right. But you can`t expect it to be otherwise. The economy`s lousy, we`ve got this mess in the Gulf. Most Americans do not think the country is on the right track. So you blame the president for it. He gets blamed, whoever the president is, when things are down. When the economy`s looking up, the president looks great even if he had nothing to do with it.
BEHAR: Yes well his approval ratings are going down a little bit. I think it`s at 50 percent CNN poll that we found out today. And Peter Beinart in the "Daily Beast" says that Obama has accomplished in 18 months what Clinton and Carter achieved in a combined 12-year period. Is that true, Margaret?
CARLSON: It`s true, and back to your last question, that`s why his approval ratings are down. If you do as much as he`s done in areas where no one`s been able to do health care because it`s controversial and there`s a huge lobby against it and people get used to the misery they`re in and they`re afraid of any changes, these things are really destabilizing to people even if they`re going turn out to be good. And there was a lot of misunderstanding of it. So in many ways, his ratings are a function of actually getting things done when people are sometimes more comfortable with nothing changing. And, by the way, there are things he`s had no control over, which make us feel terrible, like the BP oil spill.
BEHAR: Yes like the BP oil. Is he going to be one of these presidents that we`ll look back on and say he was the most brilliant, greatest president, meanwhile he`ll only have served one term? Could that happen?
CARLSON: Well you know Joy, I was looking at Elena Kagan today and I was thinking of Barack Obama. What you ask of people -- because you cannot predict the future - is will I approve of how they handle the things I don`t know are coming? And that -- in the McChrystal case, I look at President Obama and I think he succeeded there in doing what most people wanted him to do on something that was completely unforeseen.
BEHAR: OK, Margaret and Dana, stay right there.
CARLSON: Bye Joy.
BEHAR: No, don`t go. We`ll have more after this break. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Bloomberg`s Margaret Carlson and "The Washington Post`s" Dana Milbank. Let`s talk about President Clinton a little more, about what he said. First of all he seems to think that it all boils down to the economy with Obama. And I remember that when Obama was running, he said that it would take ten years to fix the economy. Why doesn`t he read his notes and then tell everybody that you can`t fix this in two years, it`s impossible? Why doesn`t he say that?
MILBANK: He can say it if he wants to, but the fact of the matter that people want immediate results. It transcends any presidency. If you can watch where the stock market is, where unemployment is, you`ll know how popular that president is. Now the good news for President Obama in 2012 probably things will look a lot better than they do now. So he`s actually probably in pretty good shape, in terms of that.
BEHAR: Right.
MILBANK: The problem is he`s going to be clobbered in November because it`s not going to be better by then.
BEHAR: That`s right it`s the midterms that we`re rely worried about, isn`t it, Margaret? That`s really the problem.
CARLSON: Yes. It is and Republicans have no incentive to help him out on that.
BEHAR: No.
CARLSON: And they`re not helping out on that.
BEHAR: No, Americans don`t seem to see through that. OK, the White House seems to let others control their narrative. For example, Mike Huckabee and his band made a song about the BP mess. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s unleashed the horses there are solutions we ought to try and I wonder still I wonder who`ll stop the oil
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It`s like Peter, Paul and Mary on Seconal.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Does the White House have a PR problem? Or what?
MILBANK: Well, they certainly have, in terms of this oil spill, they`ve been a step behind from the beginning. And even knowing that they were at risk of running into sort of a Katrina situation, they were unable to get out of it. Things just kept getting worse and they looked powerless here. So this is also a short-term phenomenon, but the president`s really taken a beating, not just in the oil spill directly, but because it sucked out all the energy from the rest of his agenda.
BEHAR: Yes, I mean I`ve been talking about this. We started this show in September. We`ve been talking about this PR problem for a long time that he has. Why is it taking so long for them to correct the PR problem? I know they can`t fix the BP problem. How about the PR problem?
CARLSON: Well, but, you know, BP is the PR problem. You can`t extricate it. As long as spill cam is on that split screen, there`s not much the White House can do to make Obama look like he`s on top of it. If he`s on top of it, cap the well. You know Huckabee was at least was slightly humorous in his thing. Republicans have not been able to make that much hay themselves in that it`s hard to be anti-Obama without looking pro-BP, as you saw Joe Barton apologizing to BP. So they`ve shrunk back. And now I go back to my other thing. You look at --
BEHAR: Joe Biden? Who was apologizing Joe Barton.
CARLSON: Joe Barton apologized to BP for Obama`s shakedown of BP. That was the greatest thing in the world. He extricated $20 billion and Republicans are apologizing.
BEHAR: I know but why didn`t they run with that a little more forcefully?
CARLSON: They ran for a while. What happened was McChrystal came along and wiped it off.
BEHAR: Well McChrystal was a good move on Obama`s part. So maybe he`s on a roll now. Listen, guys, thanks very much for joining me.
MILBANK: Thanks Joy.
BEHAR: And thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
