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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Kagan Confirmation Hearings: Day One; 7-Year-Old Boy Missing in Oregon
Aired June 28, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan on the hot seat -- highly partisan and highly little hearings underway.
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ELENA KAGAN, SUPREME COURT NOMINEE: And I will do my best to consider every case impartially.
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KING: Plus, a landmark decision from the high court: Gun owners win it.
Then, 7-year-old vanishes from school. Three weeks and thousands of tips, later his disappearance is still a mystery. Does the second graders stepmom know something that could help find him?
Next on LARRY KING LIVE.
KING: Good evening.
Today's confirmation hearings were devoted to opening statements by committee members and nominee Elena Kagan. Herself, if confirmed, Kagan will succeed Justice John Paul Stevens retiring after 35 years on the court.
Here to talk about it is James Carville, CNN political contributor and Democratic strategist; Dana Loesch, conservative talk radio host of "Dana Show," and organizer with the nationwide Tea Party Coalition.
Back here in L.A., Stephanie Miller, progressive talk radio host, host of her own program.
And Penn Jillette is in Las Vegas, the magician, author, comedian, libertarian, the more talkative half playing Penn and Tiller. He's now playing at the Rio Hotel and Casino in Vegas. Penn and Tiller also have a series on "B.S." on Showtime.
All right. James, these hearings are pretty much pro forma, unless someone wildly speaks out on an issue like Robert Bork. This is going through the motions, isn't it, James?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, pretty much. I mean, we do this every time we have one and everybody postures, and I think -- one of the hearings, I think, then-Senator Biden asked a 24- minute question or something.
You know, yes, we're going to have this. And she's going to be confirmed and as she well should be, and, you know, four Republicans and one Democrat will vote against her, and four Republicans will vote for her, or something like that. It will be about the way it ends up.
KING: Dana, how do you feel? Because the previous conservative appointees also kind of took the middle road, she hasn't been questioned yet. But they weren't definitive on any topic and they were approved. Don't you expect this to go the same way?
DANA LOESCH, CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO HOST: Probably more than likely I expect it to go through. I'm watching Lindsey Graham to see what he does, because he was one of the Republicans who voted to confirm Sonia Sotomayor. I believe he was one of the only ones.
I just wish that we knew a little bit more about the documents that Clinton Library is releasing. I mean, we only have, like, a quarter of the memos that she's authored because she does have razor thin experience. And I look at that and put that in context with some of the things that she said and some of the people that she's looked up to, people with whom that she's sort of organized herself with.
So, I don't -- I just wish that she had a little bit more of a record and I wish that we were able to read a little bit more of, what, 160,000 -- more than 160,000 pages of documents and memos, and now, a quarter of which has been released so far. It seems a little bit tough to make a decision just based on that.
KING: Stephanie, William Rehnquist was chief judge and he was never a judge, and he was a presidential assistant.
STEPHANIE MILLER, PROGRESSIVE TALK RADIO HOST: Someone that was just an upper east side liberal as of Friday, I just moved back to L.A., I'm an upper west side liberal. She's not, Larry. She's a centrist.
KING: How do you know?
MILLER: I love -- because if you look at her, you know, the way she has ruled, believe me, for many of us on the left, Larry, she's not a liberal justice. She's not someone that should replace who she's replacing. I think this court has skewed very much to the right, particularly with the Citizens United ruling.
And, you know, I love the fact that it's snooty to have a Harvard degree. They all have a Harvard degree. What do they think? She's going to have a trade degree from Boise's (ph). Of course, she has a Harvard degree.
KING: Aren't all the Democrats pretty much going to vote for her?
MILLER: I would think so. I would hope so. Yes.
KING: Penn, are you concerned about, as Dana pointed out, this non-paper trail?
PENN JILLETTE, LIBERTARIAN: I'm thrilled to pieces to agree with James completely. There shouldn't even be confirmation hearings. That's a new thing just created for television. Most of the justices we've had never had confirmation hearings.
Yes, I disagree with her on a lot of stuff. I don't like how weak she is on freedom of speech. She's given some speeches about how the government can do work around on freedom of speech. I disagree with her on a lot. And it doesn't matter what I think.
The president appoints them. They should say OK and put them on the Supreme Court. There shouldn't be a confirmation hearing where everybody goes on TV and makes their stupid little speeches.
Just put her in. It's fine. It's his choice.
KING: Do you think they're going to make a big deal, James, of the fact that she approved the barring of military recruiters on campus at Harvard?
CARVILLE: Well, they'll try to. They'll say -- let me get this straight. She's not qualified and she's the dean of the Harvard Law School. OK. Put those two sentences together and say that makes sense. I mean, come on.
Yes, they'll make a deal out of something. And they made a deal because Alito was some guy (ph) that wanted to keep women out when he was at Princeton. I mean, it will make a deal.
But she's going to be confirmed. The president has a right to pick who he wants. She's obviously qualified to do this.
Would she be my first choice? Probably not. But I'm not the president. He got the votes. I didn't.
KING: Dana, in 1995, while a professor at the University of Chicago, Kagan said she thought Supreme Court confirmations were vapid and hollow charades.
KING: Was she right?
LOESCH: I think we have -- you know, see, Penn doesn't like it. I enjoy this stuff because I want to know what people are saying and I would like -- I want everything to be dragged right out into the light. That's how I look at it. KING: You enjoy senators making speeches today, though?
LOESCH: I liked Jeff Sessions' remarks. Yes, I like his remarks. I like watching it because you really -- you can see it. It's like a soap opera. I really enjoy watching it.
I like to see how she reacts with all of this as well.
MILLER: You know, Dana -- I beg to differ, Larry. And this is kind of a complex legal term. But I thought Jeff Sessions was kind of being an ass hat today in the hearings.
LOESCH: How so? Because he was just pointing out the obvious?
MILLER: He was way over the top. I mean, come on.
LOESCH: He was reciting her record. If you think it's over the top, take it up with her. He was just reciting her record.
MILLER: First of all, she was working in the Clinton administration. That doesn't mean those are her views.
KING: All right.
MILLER: Well, pardon, that was like a Jeff Sessions strategy. OK.
LOESCH: I take that as a compliment. Thanks.
KING: Penn, it's your turn.
JILLETTE: I agree with James. It feels great. I might do that more often. It just kind of feels warm and cuddly and comfortable.
Yes, confirm her. It's the president's choice. He made it. Who cares what I think and who wants to see people read long speeches and grandstand?
CARVILLE: I take it back, Larry. After what you said, she said in 1995, I wouldn't appoint her if I was president. I'm more for her now than I was before after I realized she said that.
CARVILLE: The first time we heard Jeff Sessions fight on cable TV.
KING: Let me -- let me get a break. When we come back, we'll discuss the Supreme Court decision. Today, if you live in Chicago, despite a 28-year-old law, they threw it out today. You can have a handgun.
We'll talk about that after this.
KING: All right. We start with Dana on this go-around.
A community activist in Chicago, which the president used to be, wanted a handgun to protect himself from gangs. He lost at all lower levels but won today in the Supreme Court, which threw out the Chicago ordinance. Anyone in Chicago can have a handgun. The vote was five to four.
What do you think, Dana?
LOESCH: I think it was a huge win for Second Amendment rights, although I'm a little bit disturbed by the fact it was only five to four. It should have been nine-to-o, that's nine to zero. It's fantastic.
I mean, people should -- the Second Amendment is quite clear and I think it's interesting, too, unlike the Heller case, this really shows the fact that, yes, firearms Second Amendment is for self- defense, for individual possession as well. And I think that's so often kicked aside in these arguments. In fact, I think a lot of people try to pretend that that's -- that's really not what one of the focuses of the Second Amendment is.
KING: It's been debated for years, Stephanie, the Second Amendment. Thy go back to the original minutes in the argument in the -- in the actual Congress.
MILLER: Yes. But, you know, Larry, it just seems like there is no reason anymore in these arguments. I mean, there are states that it's OK to have guns in bars. It's OK to bring a baby in a bar. It's like, what's next? It's OK to arm babies in bars? I mean, is there no common sense?
I mean, guns and alcohol, that's historically been a great combination. And you can bring guns in church in some places. What do you need to make the communion after for, you know, clay pigeon? I mean --
MILLER: It's just they are so in the pocket of the gun lobby on the right now that there's no reason for these --
KING: Penn -- what did you make of the law that they threw out, Penn?
JILLETTE: Well, I think it's always good to go in favor of freedom. What we learned from the Heller case is they promised that there was going to be huge amounts of gun violence after this went through and we're not seeing that. Gun violence is going down. And it's not going down because of gun control.
We obviously don't have a direct cause and effect there and that's also a pragmatic argument. The moral argument is: individuals have to have as many rights as possible and I think it's -- I think it's a great decision. I don't think they should be able to take arms away from individuals.
I think freedom is a good thing. It's the way I was brought up.
MILLER: So, should you have freedom to have a rocket launcher if you live next to an airport? Where -- are there any -- should there be any restrictions?
JILLETTE: Should there be any restrictions? You're talking to a nut, you know that?
MILLER: Well, that's a given.
JILLETTE: I don't believe in prior restraint. I don't think you can -- you can stop people ahead of time. Now, there's a line drawn somewhere but the line certainly isn't drawn on handguns. People are being able to have them for self-defense is really important and it's really part of a free society.
You cannot keep taking rights away from the individual. I think it's really cool that the Supreme Court is doing a few things right.
KING: James, what do you think?
CARVILLE: Oh, yes. All God's children will be packing heat now. I guess we'll have the "bazooka rights association" and a .50 caliber rights association and the hand grenade right association.
CARVILLE: A Senate candidate, Republican Senate candidate in Nevada talking about a Second Amendment remedy.
MILLER: How do you know when a deer is really dead unless like you have like 17 Uzis, you know?
CARVILLE: I don't know. Look, I pack heat myself. I pack heat myself. Everybody pack heat. Everybody get a bazooka. Let's go.
LOESCH: Can we do that?
MILLER: It should be allowed on television.
LOESCH: The government can't decide --
KING: According to the Justice Department, there are 275 million guns in America. Dana, how do you define arms?
LOESCH: How do I define arms? Oh, gosh. I don't think there should be a restriction on firearms.
KING: You said the Second Amendment is clear.
KING: You said the Second Amendment is clear. So, arms would include a machine gun, right?
LOESCH: I hate the war and B.S. term with respects to Penn, who's show I like, the B.S. term on assault weapons and assault rifles and all of this stuff. We're going to put word assault in front of it because we don't understand that adding something cosmetic really doesn't make a gun anymore accurate. It's just the cosmetic --
KING: How do you define arms? You said the Second Amendment is clear.
LOESCH: I define arms by weapons, period. Yes, I define arms by firearms, by guns, period.
KING: All right. Guns would be a machine gun?
LOESCH: Yes. Sure. And it freaks people out, but I just don't believe in that restriction. I don't believe the government can act like a nanny. And the government doesn't have a better moral code than me.
KING: All right. OK.
MILLER: I think they've convinced James and I, I think CNN should bring back "Crossfire" and we should have to be armed. It should actually be "Crossfire."
JILLETTE: It seems to me like you are being sarcastic. Are you being sarcastic? I think you're being sarcastic.
CARVILLE: Me? Yes. I'm very sarcastic.
JILLETTE: I think you are.
JILLETTE: Were you being sarcastic about the confirmation, too?
CARVILLE: I wasn't being sarcastic about that.
MILLER: You can say that in the safety of your little box over there where I can't reach you with my Uzi. (CROSSTALK)
KING: We'll talk more about the --
JILLETTE: I don't know what this feeling is that you think that if you had a gun, you'd kill everybody. There are many, many people with guns who wouldn't kill anybody. You can be peaceful. You can be -- you can be gentle. Having a gun does not mean you use it.
And believe me, if I were in a room with you and I had an Uzi, I would never use it no matter what you did to me.
JILLETTE: But it is about me. It is about freedom. Freedom can't be --
CARVILLE: I owned guns all of my life.
JILLETTE: You can't make the laws for the psychotics. You can't make the laws for the psychotics.
KING: OK. This show is free (ph). OK, let me get a break. We'll talk about the death of Senator Byrd and we'll go back to all the topics we've been sort of discussing right after this.
KING: You got until July 7th, by the way, to bid on great auction items proceeds helping people and wildlife in the Gulf. Drew Brees, Bret Michaels, and "American Idol," others have donated some terrific stuff. Go to CNN.com/LarryKing and click on charity buzz auction link.
Back to our panelists, discussing Senator Robert Byrd, a guest on this show a few times. He died early today at age 92.
What did you think of him, James? An early member of the KKK who later changed. How are going to think of him?
CARVILLE: Well, you know, he changed. I mean, great, wonderful. You know, he knew more about the Senate. You know, he loved that place.
CARVILLE: He apparently knew every rule in there, and in West Virginia.
You know, one thing about it, you never saw him at, like, a cocktail party or a dinner party. He was never much enamored with sort of the social side of Washington. He spent all his time in the Senate and back in West Virginia. He was the longest serving senator in history, so, you know, quite a remarkable achievement.
I'll never forget the image of him at Senator Kennedy -- he was on the Hill, you know, when Senator Kennedy died. I mean, I never seen a guy who's kind of very touched, I've never a man so devastated by the death of another person in my life.
KING: And he was crying and --
CARVILLE: It was remarkable. Right.
KING: Dana, what did you think of the senator?
LOESCH: Well, my first thought is to sort of linger on the fact that he was with -- involved with the KKK, but if he repented, then graces for all. That's fantastic. I hope that before his death, he was able to reconcile some of the positions that he had prior to that. I hope he was able to reconcile that before he passed away.
I wasn't completely enamored with his voting record. But that aside, it's always sad when somebody dies, and I feel bad for his family. But other than that, that's pretty much my reaction.
KING: He opposed going to Iraq by the way.
Stephanie, the West Virginia governor, Joe Manchin, a Democrat. So, he's going to appoint a Democrat. But there were -- this is interesting -- there were two years, six months and five days left in Byrd's term when he died. Under West Virginia law, special election must be held if there's more than 2 1/2 years left on the term. The West Virginia held its 2010 primary almost two months ago, some think there will be a legal challenge here to whether there should be a Senate fight on the ballot in November.
MILLER: Wow. And if anybody would know about Senate rules, it would be Robert Byrd unfortunately.
KING: Yes, right. He was --
MILLER: You know, I have to say, Larry, I'm always offended when people -- people on the right literally will say KKK with Robert Byrd's name as if it was yesterday. It's like 40 years ago. I remember saying to somebody, one of my Republican friends about my dad's running mate, Barry Goldwater, when he died. I said, you know, he became he was great pro-choice and pro-gay rights, you know, in the '80s on the Senate floor. And I remember they said, well, yes, we had a good run with him for a while -- like the second half of his life didn't count because he didn't agree with them specifically on every issue.
LOESCH: Well, he had used a very inflammatory slur on air just a couple years ago during that interview. So, it's not exactly like it was -- we're talking like when he was 15 years old.
MILLER: Who? Robert Byrd?
KING: He, what?
JILLETTE: Yes. In 2001, he did a couple of times.
MILLER: He used an inflammatory term about what?
LOESCH: He used the N-word on television.
JILLETTE: He used the N-word on television on FOX News in 2001, with the word white before it. But I - I mean, I'm glad it wasn't me.
MILLER: Well, I hadn't seen that. But maybe -- maybe the day he died is not the appropriate time --
JILLETTE: I don't think so. I'm just saying -- I was just giving information.
CARVILLE: I think there was -- there was context. He had a voting record and everything else. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
KING: James, hold it, what is West Virginia going to do, do you think?
CARVILLE: You know what, Larry, I have never tried to figure out what West Virginia was going to do about anything and if somebody can figure out West Virginia let me know. But I'm having a hard enough time here in Louisiana.
I don't know -- as I understand, to qualify, in its past, for primaries and then you have this conflict law. I suspect that they have a Supreme Court and they'll decide something there. But I just don't know. I'm not -- I'm not that familiar with it, to be honest with you.
KING: All right. Do you think it will affect the Kagan nomination?
MILLER: Oh, you know, I mean, it could. It depends on, as you say, Larry, how much of this is just a show -- this Kagan thing -- or how much they're really serious. Because, to me, she's very, very centrist and, you know, moderate.
KING: OK. We're going to go back to Kagan and review some other issues of the day.
The general, by the way, fired by the president retired from public life today. We'll talk about that, too. Don't go away.
KING: OK. We're back with our panel.
A couple of other issues: The Senate Armed Services Committee opens confirmation hearings for General Petraeus to replace General McChrystal. Will that be pro forma as well, James?
CARVILLE: Of course, it is. (INAUDIBLE) General Petraeus. I mean, my golly, why don't they just send the man over there?
KING: We love Petraeus.
CARVILLE: Yes, whatever. I mean, it's almost a waste of time. That's a waste of time. I guess that's air out Afghan policy or lack of it or something. But, of course, he's going to be confirmed.
KING: Dana, the new "USA Today"/Gallup Poll shows 53 percent of America approve the firing of McChrystal, 30 percent disapprove, the rest don't have any opinion. McChrystal told the Army today he's going to retire. What did you make of it all, Dana?
LOESCH: Oh, goodness. I talked about this at length on air and online as well. He should have, I think, resigned or stepped down. I do believe there's protocol that you follow within the military.
But I also think that if the administration had perhaps maybe been stepped into a little bit more, he would not have felt the need to fall on his sword as it were in "Rolling Stone," because this is a man, by the way -- let's not forget that this is a guy who was so unbelievably well-trained. He's not just going to forget whom he's speaking with when discussing something with a "Rolling Stone" reporter. I think it was absolutely purposeful. He did what he did in order to bring greater attention to Afghanistan and get a little bit more action with it.
Before then, the president hardly met with the guy. He met with them twice and second time was over this. So, I mean, yes --
KING: Stephanie, he and the president were in agreement on Afghanistan policy.
MILLER: Yes. That's why I was tries to parse everything Dana just said. You know, that's certainly not how you do it then if you disagree with strategy. You don't go drinking with a "rolling stone" reporter in a bar and get chatty.
MILLER: The strategy is the same. They agree on the strategy. This was obviously clearly insubordination. I would have given anything to be a fly on the wall for that meeting, Larry. Say it with me, awkward. I hope he just took his resignation and just sat there for 20 minutes staring at him.
KING: Penn, what did you make of it, my libertarian friend? I guess the general could have said anything, right? (INAUDIBLE) in a meeting and said anything he wanted.
JILLETTE: He could say anything he wanted and then get fired. I'm fine with firing him. It's easy to do that.
But, you know, I was too young to go into the Vietnam War, but I did pay attention to it. And I would have given anything during the Vietnam War for one general to tell the truth about anything. Even if it was just trashing people in a bar, one little bit of truth would have been nice.
What I find disturbing is that McChrystal and Obama agree about the war completely and that is that the war will go on forever and kill a lot of people and cost a lot of money and can't possibly be won. They both seem to agree on that 100 percent. And that's what we're doing and it's really a bad thing.
But, of course, the president can fire him. And, of course, the president can put anybody he wants and put anybody in the Supreme Court. He is the president. I don't agree with him but I don't have a -- I don't have a vote on this.
KING: James, how long does this war -- this war is longer than Vietnam now.
CARVILLE: You know, if you asked me about what is West Virginia going to do and how long is this war going to go on, that's way beyond my pay grade. Penn, I agree with almost everything that you just said. Look, the tragedy is -- in Afghanistan is we're nine years into this thing. And, man, honestly I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see a way out any time soon. It's bad.
GILLETTE: We're just killing people. We shouldn't be killing.
KING: Dana, do you see an end game?
LOESCH: Well, I think Petraeus is one of the first smart decisions that this administration has made when it comes to Afghanistan, because Petraeus was the guy who -- interestingly enough, the Betray-Us stuff was scrubbed from Move On, and now all the people who hated him are treating him like he's prom queen.
But, no, I think this is a good decision, getting this guy in. He's going to go in, get the job done and minimize casualties, get in there and get it done.
GILLETTE: We don't know what the job is. We have no idea what the job is. There is no job to get done. There's just killing people and wasting money.
LOESCH: We're not killing people.
GILLETTE: Yes, we're killing people.
LOESCH: We're not just going over there --
KING: One at a time.
GILLETTE: We're killing people and dying.
MILLER: Larry, I hate it when I come on this show and get flanked on the left by Penn Gillette.
GILLETTE: Stop the war. Just stop it. Don't kill people. MILLER: I understand your point.
GILLETTE: It's a simple point. Stop it.
MILLER: But when people say, oh, he's breaking campaign promises, no, this is what he campaigned on.
GILLETTE: No, he's keeping the campaign promises. That's the problem.
MILLER: He said Iraq was the wrong war.
GILLETTE: He promised it.
MILLER: I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on how we do that and how we get out. I think it's above -- if it's above James Carville's pay grade, it's way above my pay grade.
CARVILLE: I can tell you one thing --
GILLETTE: -- my country right or wrong is your point on this. OK.
MILLER: I'm behind this president. That's my point.
GILLETTE: That's your point.
CARVILLE: I tell you what, this strategy -- we depend on Karzai, there's no way. Karzai is fundamentally corrupt. This is something I do know a little bit about. I'm sorry. He might be there, but the idea that this guy is going to help us get out of there is ludicrous.
KING: Dana, what's the end game as you see it? How will it end?
LOESCH: How it will end? I can tell you how I would like for it to end. Like I said, I think Petraeus is going to get us in and get us out. Finish the job, get out. Make sure that they have a stable government. We have people over there that are voting now. Women are being freed. I think that's -- you don't have any progress without struggles sometimes. I'm glad that we didn't turn a blind eye to a lot of the travesty over there. As a woman, I can say that.
I like Petraeus going in there, doing the job, getting out, bottom line. I can't tell you what is going to happen. I can tell what you I would like to see happen.
MILLER: Here's my plan: as a woman, I say we air lift anything with a vagina out of Afghanistan, Larry, and leave it at that.
GILLETTE: How about anybody that wants to leave? MILLER: I feel bad for the men.
KING: OK. How long -- we can't do anything about Karzai. He was elected, right, James?
CARVILLE: You know, again, I think that there was a dispute and I think some people thought that we could deal with him. I think sometimes you got to go around him. But this guy, I promise you, is fundamentally corrupt. And as long as we're stuck with him, we are not going to do very much over there, I don't' think, not at all.
And, look, the president doubled down. He doubled down on a Bush strategy. It's not working so far. Who knows? Maybe General Petraeus will think of something. God knows, I know I would vote for him and hope he comes up. I wish to take General McChrystal would come to Louisiana and head up the state coordination of the oil spill. I think this is a guy who needs to change his view in history. I think he can come down here. I think he's a competent guy who just talked too much. And I think he has a lot to offer this country.
And General McChrystal, if you're listening to this, come on down here and we can put you to work and you can help a lot of people. I think you're a talented, brave guy.
GILLETTE: I agree with James on a lot today, a lot.
CARVILLE: We'll even let you talk to the press. I'm serious. We should do it. I told the governor's office. I called the governor's office and said you all ought to have him and head the state coordination. I think this guy -- as opposed to going to work for defense contractors and schlepping around the Pentagon, like a lot of these retired generals do, he ought to come down here and people would have a lot of confidence in him. Guy made a mistake. He ran his mouth to the press too much. We've all done that. There's no -- can't tell you about the times I've done that.
MILLER: I've been flanked on the right by Penn Gillette, and flanked on the left by James Carville. And I need to go home now.
KING: You're tonight's moderate. Thank you all very much, I think. James Carville, Dana Loesch, Stephanie Miller, and Penn Gillette, Penn, next time be a little opinionated. He's straddling the middle road here. Don't work.
GILLETTE: Doing my best, Larry.
KING: OK. A little boy simply vanishes from school three weeks ago. Hasn't been found. Latest on that mystery next.
KING: The search continues for a seven-year-old Oregon boy, Kyron Horman. He vanished on June 4th. According to police, his stepmother Terri says she last saw him as he walked down a hallway toward class at Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon. Authorities are treating it as a criminal investigation. Joining us with the latest is Steve Dunn, anchor of KAU-TV in Portland. Then we'll meet out panel. Steve, what's the story? Now, the stepmother -- give us the history here.
STEVE DUNN, KAU-TV, OREGON: Here's the history, Larry. June 4th, Kyron goes to school, his school in southwest Portland. He goes in there. He's headed to a science fair. He goes to the science fair with his stepmother, Terri Horman, is seen by other people at the science fair. At about 8:45, his stepmother says she lasts see him going down the hallway toward his classroom.
He's marked absent that day. Nobody sees him in class. And from then on, it's been an absolute mystery. He does not show up at home, does not come home on the school bus. Stepmother calls the office. Office calls 911. Here we are today.
KING: Does he live with his stepmother and father?
DUNN: He lives with his stepmother and father at this particular time. He does obviously have a biological mother and a stepfather who live in the southern part of Oregon at this time. Of course, they've been here for days and days as the search has been going on. But it's been an intense mystery for all of us.
Larry, in all my years here -- I've been here 20 plus -- I've never seen a story that's captivated the city like this one has. This is a kid who shows up to school and all of a sudden disappears.
KING: That's amazing. Is it true the mother, Terri Horman, the stepmother, was given a polygraph?
DUNN: What we understand is two polygraphs at this point. This is what we're hearing, unable to confirm. They've been very tight lipped, as you well imagine, on this one, Larry. But we're hearing two polygraphs at this point. Very difficult to talk to step mom. She does not want to talk to us. She has not spoken at any of the news conferences.
In fact, I can tell you, Larry, we got a statement today from the family saying that they're going to limit their access to the media. It's signed by Desiree, the biological mother, Tony, the stepfather and Kaine, who is the biological father. But missing is Terri's name on that statement. At this point, we're not hearing anything at all from her.
KING: The biological father, who the kid lives with, not the kid but the nice little boy, Kyron, with the stepmother, he hasn't said anything, the biological father?
DUNN: He has talked. He just basically is sending out pleas for any sort of tips whatsoever. He's not saying anything about the stepmother or the case. As you can well imagine, detectives saying, hey, keep this close to your vest and let's not really talk about it. He's staying to that line.
KING: Thanks, Steve. Steve Dunn, anchor for CNN affiliate KAU- TU, getting us up to date.
Let's meet the panel, Jane Velez-Mitchell in New York, host of "Issues with Jane Velez-Mitchell" on HLN. Marc Klaas is in San Francisco. His 12-year-old daughter Polly was abducted from her home and murdered in '93. He established the Klaas Kids Foundation in 1994 to honor Polly and stop crimes against children. And Candice Delong, the former FBI profiler, she can be seen on the Investigation Discovery show "Deadly Women."
Jane, what's your read?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Clearly the focus of the investigation is the stepmother. Larry, she's been given two polygraphs. They've searched her house. They've interrogated her for up to six hours several times. They've seized her truck twice. And they have also issued questionnaires to parents who have kids at the school, as well as neighbors, saying did you see this woman or this truck in the area on that particular day? She's not being called a suspect or a person of interest.
I can also tell you that they have called off their search essentially, and they have told people in the area, we do not think -- although we can't say 100 percent sure, we do not think it's a stranger abduction. You don't have to be worried for your kids. So that tells you a lot right there.
KING: The father, though, Marc, supports the stepmother, does he not?
MARC KLAAS, DAUGHTER ABDUCTED AND KILLED IN '93: As I understand it, he does. Let me clarify a couple things. First of all, it's a very rural community. It's a rural school. There are about 300 people at the school. What happened that day, according to her own words, as she was walking the little boy to his class and was very close to the class when the bell rang at 8:45 a.m. She then told him -- he told her, mom, excuse me, I'm going the classroom now. She said she waved to him and that was the last time she saw the little boy.
The problem with that statement is that if she was walking with him, she would have kissed him or rubbed his head or something. Waving doesn't make a lot of sense if you're close to the classroom. So she then turned and went away. One of two things happened, I believe. Number one, she is involved. That's where the numbers take you. That's where the facts as we know them take you. The second possibility is a very high risk snatch by a local pedophile.
KING: We'll take a break. When we come back, we'll get Candice Delong, who has had a lot of cases in her life, former FBI profiler. I wonder if she has ever seen anything like this. Don't go away.
(NEWS BREAK) KING: The biological parents of the missing boy, Kaine Horman, and his ex-wife Desiree Young, opened up to the media on Friday. In addition to talking about their feeling during this ordeal, Desiree spoke of a letter she'd written to her missing son. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, MOTHER OF MISSING SON: It was the first night and I just had this overwhelming feeling of -- sorry -- of guilt for not being there to protect him. So I sat down and wrote about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: All right, Candice Delong, what do you make of this?
CANDICE DELONG, FMR. FBI PROFILER: Well, regarding his bio-mom's statement, that's what I would expect to see and what we have all grown to expect to see. The mother who actually was in charge of the child that went missing, to see them in front of a camera crying and begging and pleading for whoever took their child to bring them home. We're not seeing that here. That's pretty unusual.
KING: You suspect the stepmother?
DELONG: Well, here's what we have to believe, if we believe her: we have to believe, as Marc Klaas said, that if she's telling the truth, that someone, a pedophile probably, a boogie man of sorts,, grabbed that little boy within feet of her and within seconds of her turning away from her child inside the school. And then we are to believe that, since he's been gone three weeks, the child, that they got away with it, with all kinds of people around and no one saw a thing. That's pretty hard to believe.
Could it happen? Possibly. Is it likely that that's what happened? I don't think so.
KING: Jane, do you know how the father came to have custody, that the child lived with the father and stepmother rather than with the biological mother?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It's a fascinating story, Larry. It turns out the step mom and the biological mom have been friends for years. And when the biological mother divorces Kyron's dad, she then gets sick with kidney failure. She has to go to Canada. At that point, the little boy goes too live with his biological father.
Terry, being her good friend, decides to help, and says, I'm going to move in to help with the raising of this child, since the mother's off getting treatment. She eventually develops a romantic relationship with Kyron's dad. They get married and continue to take care of Kyron.
Now, what's interesting is, two years ago, the stepmother and Kyrons dad had their own biological child, a little daughter. One could hypothetically ask, if one has one's own biological daughter, would there be a resentment toward the seven-year-old child who is not your flesh and blood, that you have to take care of?
I have to stress that at this point everybody who has been interviewed says that she seems like the model step parent, that she was very involved in the school. And she doesn't have any history of any kind violence. She has one DUI on her record. This woman, by the way, has a master's degree in education.
KING: The biological mother, did she remarry, Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, she remarried. Actually, she's married to a detective, which is also an interesting twist, considering everything that's gone on here. So it's really just a fascinating mystery, because these two couples seemed close until this happened.
KING: Marc, you've investigated, looked at the -- have you ever heard of a stepmother harming a young child?
KLAAS: Oh, sure, that can happen. I'm sure that's happened many, many times. I believe it's Cinderella, the fairy tale, where that happens. I'd like to quickly address the whole idea of advocating for your child publicly, though. I know the family is stepping back and they don't want to make any comments in the media. But the reality is that, the best advocates for a missing child, by far, are his family. As long as they are out front showing a united front, people will get behind them and do everything they can to bring the child home, as well as law enforcement and the media.
The trouble is, when they don't do that, questions are raised because that's the nature of the beast. And they're left with way too much quiet time. And quiet time is when the demons attack, and when you run through the horrible scenarios, most of which probably aren't true. But still, they invade your mind and they bedevil you until there's a resolution.
KING: Curiouser and curiouser. Back with more and we'll get Candice's comments on that right after this.
KING: Candice, Chance King, the 11-year-old son of Sean and Larry King, happens to be in our control room today. He has a question, which is a pretty good one, I think. The question is, if someone took that child, while the stepmother turned around, wouldn't the child have yelled?
DELONG: Well, I think that's an excellent question. I think we need to teach our children that if anyone ever does try to take them away, they are to yell, mommy, daddy, help me, or even fire, something to draw attention to the fact that they're being taken by someone.
Yes, that is a good observation. How could there be so many witnesses around, children and adults, and not have noticed a child being abducted?
KING: Jane, she did take the child to the science fair, right? That's a fact. VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I wasn't there, Larry. But what's fascinating --
KING: There's pictures of him, right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, at 1:21 -- she drops the kid off at 8:45 a.m. At 1:21, she posts a photo of the little boy standing in front of his science fair project on her Facebook page. I will tell you that it appears to be a very legitimate photo to me. I have no evidence to the contrary. But there have been Internet rumors swirling and questions about was it photo shopped. You can see in the background it looks like a little girl and a man with a plaid shirt. People are wondering who the heck is that person. I think there's a lot of detective work to be done here.
I'm sure that a key to this entire puzzle is her computer. And I'm sure authorities are honing in on that as well.
KING: And our producer in charge here has an interesting question. I credit where credit is due. Marc, who's abducted more, boys or girls?
KLAAS: I think the most vulnerable population in a predatory kidnapping are 11 to 15 -- I'm sorry, are girls in the 10 to 12-year- old range. By far, the most vulnerable kids are those kids.
KING: Have you ever heard --
KLAAS: Very quickly, Candice made a huge point about yelling. And I think the best thing to yell is you're not my mom, you're not my dad. Under no circumstances, if a child has any kind an option, you never, ever go with the bad man.
KING: We only have about 35 seconds. Candice, have predators been known to take kids at school? Inside school?
DELONG: I have never heard of it. But, of course, you know, Marc Klaas with us tonight can certainly attest to the fact that sometimes children are taken under the most bold circumstances, at very high risk to the offender. However, I would like to point out, usually when that happens, they get caught or ID'd quickly.
KING: Marc, we only got 15 seconds. Can a kid be taken inside a school? Have you heard of that?
KLAAS: Polly was taken inside of her bedroom. A little girl named Amber Dubois was taken out in front her school last February. Children can be unfortunately snatched anywhere.
KING: Thanks to all of you very much. I hope this kid's OK
Democratic Senator Robert Byrd died earlier today, age 92. He was the longest serving member of Congress ever. When he sat down with me in 2003, he was still a distance from that milestone. But we still talked about his time in office. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We ran a statistic. Of the 11,707 people who have sworn a congressional oath of office, only three served longer than you. And on March 17th, you will surpass the late Carl Vincent and become the third longest serving member of Congress. How does that make you feel?
ROBERT BYRD, FORMER SENATOR: Well, I'm proud to be a member of the United States Senate. As long as there is a forum in which questions can be asked of men who do not stand at all of the chief executive -- questions can be asked, one can speak as long as his feet will allow him to stand. The liberties of the American people will be secure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Pretty good mind, the late Senator Byrd.
Time now for Anderson Cooper in New Orleans and "AC 360." Anderson?